It would be slavery if I got nothing back but for my tax I get health care whenever I need it plus I get to help others in a way far beyond what giving to charity could achieve. Having a private health care system is fine for the rich but what about the majority of downtrodden and exploited people in society? Should they just go without their critically needed care just because they can't afford it or because their insurance company won't pay out? My conscience couldn't allow it, how can yours?
The poor do not go without care in the United States. The nation is loaded with hospitals that will care for the indigent at no charge. You are, of course, free to donate to those hospitals so they can provide even better coverage for the poor.
You need not be wealthy to have private health care. You need to buy health insurance, eat right, and exercise. If the government would allow insurers to sell across state lines and not force them to cover nonsense like acupuncture, costs would drop.
I really don't understand why some Americans don't want public health care. I'm British and the NHS is a brilliant system. Free health care when you need it and fast. Health care isn't about profit or at least it shouldn't be, it should be a base right. Without your health what do you have?
@colony14 If you're starving and homeless then yes a government should provide money for its citizens to eat + a place for them to live til they can find a job. Government should also ensure that enough jobs are there for people and that pay is fair. In any case food + clothing isn't ordinarily crippling whereas health care is. What happened to helping your fellow man? I pay for someone now because I know they will pay for me should I get sick. There's nothing wrong with a bit of socialism.
I believe in charity. You are free to give your own money to those who are in need of help and who cannot help themselves. You are NOT free to confiscate MY hard-earned wealth for distribution as you see fit. That is slavery and socialism. You may not mind being in servitude to others, but I certainly do.
What a shame you have such low faith in your own abilities that you expect others to provide for you. I think it's time for you to man up.
Republicans and allow the American people access to an improved health care system? While far from perfect, this bill is a baby-step in the right direction. Lets hope the NeoCons can put aside their selfish partisan motives and do the right thing for the people.
Republicans and allow the American people access to an improved health care system? While far from perfect, this bill is a baby-step in the right direction. Lets hope the NeoCons can put aside their selfish partisan motives and do the right thing for the people.
An IBD/TIPP poll showed that 65 per cent of physicians oppose the Democrats proposed health care legislation, and a stunning 45 per cent of physicians polled say they would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement if Obamacare is passed by Congress.
Didn't the AMA and some other big Doctor association just come out in favor of Single Payer Health Care? Can't remember who the other was, but every doctor I've talked to thinks the rates are ridiculous and favor universald health care.
BTW, Socialism is control over a means of production, so what the hell that has to do with Health Care is a mystery to me. Not that it matters, I'd rather take my chances with a little socialism than the capitalistic oligarchy conservatives enable.
The AMA represents only a portion of doctors. AMA trustees gave Obama the endorsement WITHOUT consulting their members - many of whom were very angry at the action.
ObamaCare is the beginning of socialism. He starte by eliminating the insurance carriers. Then he takes over hospitals when they go out of business, etc.
An IBD/TIPP poll showed that 65 per cent of physicians oppose ObamaCare; 45 per cent of physicians polled say they would consider leaving their practice if it passes.
He's done no such thing. Please send me a link (that isn't fox news or conservablog written.
A lot of people don't like Obamacare, especially since he caved into the idiotic desires of the Republicans who's obsolete beliefs have failed this country for the last 8 years.
Nothing you've said is socialism, btw, but you don't care do you? Health of humans (and animals for that matter) isn't something that bureacrats should be able to make a profit off of.
Okay, so let me understand this. You completely make things up and then have the nerve to call it "common sense"? This is nothing more than slander on your part.
And I know the definition of socialism, which has nothing to do with fascism. If you knew anything about socialism or history you'd realize that's it's the very essence of democracy.
I did not say socialism equals fascism. I said Obama is a socialist with fascist leanings. Like Hugo Chavez.
The U.S. is not a democracy. It is a republic. Go back to school.
A democracy enables a majority to take rights away from the minority. We have a Constitution to protect us from such abuses. But, no one follows the Constitution.
Now leave me alone. You will not persuade me to believe in your socialist claptrap, and I will not persuade you to believe in liberty and responsibility.
It doesn't have to be one or the other, Mr Grammar Nazi. America is both a Republic and a Democracy. We have represenatives but we also vote in elections.
And yeah, I had a lot of pathetic teachers. That doesn't change the fact that I'm right and you're wrong. Sorry.
You didn't understand a word I wrote. It is you who are ignoring the truth and the obvious. Government is the problem, not the solution. (Unless, of course, you are a parasite who wants something for nothing, paid for by others. Good luck holding a job with that attitude.)
I understand everything you wrote. You don't know what socialism is but you condemn it anyway, you lied about Obama taking over hospitals, you questioned my teachers, and now you are using the non-sequitir of govt is the problem. Which is bullshit. A lack of centralized govt causes just as many problems as too much govt. See ancient Greece and the Warring States of China. The problems are with society in general. Greed, nationalism, ignorance...you know, conservatives stuff.
I didn't say Obama would take over the hospitals tomorrow, but ObamaCare will lead to that.
Greed? It is YOU and the big government advocates who want something for nothing!
Get back to me after you've worked for a living for 30 years and have learned a few things about life... in the meantime, watch how the United States is being destroyed, instead of merely repeating Democrat talking points.
It is spelled non sequitur, by the way, and my comment was not a non sequitur. It was a fact.
I don't want something for nothing, I just don't want people to suffer for nothing such as money or some idiotic conservative notion.
Nothing you've said it's a fact. It's your own empty conjecture and you referring to it as fact is nothing more than insufferable arrogance. Apparently you haven't learned anything after 30 years other than how to be a lemming.
As I said, get back to me after you've worked for a living for a while and learned how the world works. I wasn't aware that taking responsibility for one's life and not being a parasite living off others is "talking s**t," but you are entitled to your ill-informed, naive opinion. If the best you can do is argue that my points are "unfounded," you should take a class in logic and debate.
Now go away... I have a living to earn, unlike you.
Jeez, another asshole who thinks they know everything cause they "work". Listen pal, I've worked harder and dealt with more than a fucking troglodyte like you could ever imagine. I actually served the country that you claim to love. You blatantly pass off possible future events like they are facts and you got the nerve to tell me about logic and debate? You are blinded by your own weakness and ego.
I am not your pal... I choose my friends more wisely than that. I am a veteran who defended what used to be a great nation. You and your kind are now destroying it.
You merely want something for nothing, and like a spoiled child you are whining because I refuse to give it to you. Sorry, earn your own living and buy your own health insurance. I am investing in gold, closing my business, firing my employees, and retiring. Let's see how long the parasites can last without the producers...
What the fuck do I want from you? Answer: nothing. I'm just holding you accountable for the lies and pathelogical propadanda that you are spreading, PAL!!!
It's hard to believe that idiots like you think compassion over bureacracy is a weakness. It's nationalism that's destroying this country, egotistical clowns like you who care more about America getting what it wants than America being good. You're the type of moron that enabled Napolean and Hitler.
You want ME to pay higher taxes so that YOU can get "free stuff" from the government!
"Compassion" is not taking money from one person at the point of a federal gun and giving it to others. Compassion is VOLUNTARILY helping others WITH OUR OWN MONEY.
"Being good" means following the Constitution and being productive and responsible. It does NOT mean taxing the producers to death so that others can watch Oprah.
Hitler came to power because of people who believed anything - just like Obamatons.
I don't want you to pay higher taxes. I don't want anybody to pay higher taxes. I just think it's shallow and idiotic for you to care more about money than helping your fellow man. The whole concept of civilization is people helping each other. You don't like it, go live in the woods with the other creatures that live without thought.
Following the constitution, huh? That mean Bush is bad?
Do not put words in my mouth (the usual leftist tactic). I never said I supported Bush. I oppose any politician who violates the U.S. Constitution, and that includes Bush, Obama, FDR, and Lincoln.
You are free to help anyone you want to help. But do it with your own money. I will likewise help those who I feel warrant it through no fault of their own.
When the fuck did you liked Bush, you hypcrite? I just think it's funny that you superficial, money grubbing, sons of bitches are so worried about things Obama HASN'T done yet during 8 years of Bush's reign of terror you minions were nowhere to be found.
What atrocious grammar and spelling! And such language! I'll bet your parents are proud of you! Or did they kick you out of the basement after they learned you were HIV positive?
OH MY GOD, I have "atrocious" (dramaqueen) spelling on youtube! My parents are proud that I'm a member of Phi Theta Kappa. So you can take your pedantic non SEQUITUR and shove it up your shallow ass.
So are you going to answer my quesion or deflect some more? When did I say you like Bush?
It seems to me that you have been doing the deflecting but, for the record, you wrote:
"When the fuck did you liked Bush, you hypcrite?"
Granted, your alleged Phi Theta Kappa grammar and spelling was atrocious in that sentence also, but I took it to mean I was a Bush supporter. (I am not.)
If that was not what you mean, don't waste your time writing back until you know how to form a proper sentence.
Wow! I was not aware that Phi theta Kappa's standards have been dumbed down that much!
Considering how utterly delusional you are you have no right talking about standards. And I said "When the fuck did you liked Bush, you hypcrite" after you claimed I said you were a Bush supporter.
Feel free to point out where I'm deflecting, although you can't, because I haven't deflected once.
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
If the Constitution does not specifically state that the federal government does not have a power, it does not then have that power.
Lincoln had no legal power to stop states from seceding. They seceded because the feds had grown too abusive, passing tariffs that favored the north over the south.
Slavery would have been ended anyway; it was becoming financially insupportable.
Individual liberty is more important than the United States. If secession results in greater freedom, so be it. I would gladly move to the Republic of Texas or the Republic of Alaska to rid myself of the IRS, Social Security and Medicare taxes, and business-killing taxes and regulations. A nation of producers in Alaska is better than a nation of parasites in the other 49 states.
You know why most people, including myself, voted for Obama, PAL? Because the Republicans are such worthless failures that voting for them at this point is insane.
And there's a lot more to being good that than, you little eichmann. People like you produce nothing but stagnation and idiocy.
I did not say I was a Republican. I tend to vote Libertarian - not that it's any of your business, but it's worth mentioning simply to point out that jumping to conclusions is a habit you should break if you ever want a decent job.
You're not a libertarian. You show all the signs of a pathelogical nationalistic conservative. You're petty, you project, you use empty denial and logical fallacies like crazy, you brag about working as though you are proud to be a tool, you only care about money, and you'll say anything to preserve your sophistry no matter how dumb it makes you look.
This is blatantly true. It's clear that the only reason Obama won was beacuse of his skin color. The Democrats are so unpopular they can't even win in Massachsetts anymore... Also, it is generally a good idea to mimic Democrat talking points mindlessly... and then calling someone Eichmann. Keep in mind, Nazism is a LEFTIST movement, and conformity is conformity, whether Left or Right.
This all wouldn't happen if company's paid people a living wadge. I can not buy a house car and pay all my bills and live on my own with my pay check, WTF is wrong with this picture. People back in the 70s 80s could live off the pay at a grocery store and pay their own insurance. Every job wants to pay minimum wedge and every one keeps rasing prices on gas electric water etc. gasoline insurance. what the fuck are we suppose to do i went to school it means NONETHING@colony14
Proof? As the government reduces payments to doctors to save money, they will leave the profession - and students will go into law instead of medicine.
Hospitals will go out of business if their fees are slashed. You don't need "proof," just the common sense understanding that a business cannot spend more than it takes in without failing! Have they not taught you that in college?
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Mommy and daddy are paying for your education, for example.
You are an idiot. You will end up with worse health care that costs you more. There will be severe doctor shortages. Hospitals will go out of business. All because you want something for nothing...
You must work for the government. No reasonable employer would hire someone with your lack of common sense.
The only homeless people in the U.S. are those who are in that situation because of booze or drugs or gambling. Actions have consequences. Grow up and accept it, Peter Pan.
Leftists want no consequences to their actions. Parasites all...
The WHO has STOPPED issuing those rankings because of bias in collecting the data.
The rankings are meaningless because they include things like ranking of care availability. Of course someone who gets "free stuff" would rank that as good! Duh!
There is also distortion because of how data is counted. In the U.S., stillbirths are counted as infant deaths. But in many countries they are counted only as miscarriages. That distorts infant mortality rankings.
The health insurance companies made, on average, about 3.3% profit last year. Did you get to keep more than 3.3% of your paycheck after taxes?
Instead of whining about how others are able to earn money, why not get a productive job and stop being a parasite sucking the wealth from the rest of us...
You don't get it, do you? This stupid requirement will encourage people to CANCEL their insurance! Why pay premiums if you are healthy? Just wait until you get sick and then buy insurance!
The result will be fewer healthy people paying premiums, which will force the insurance companies to raise the rates on the older customers in order to make up the lost revenue.
Duh!
(You must be a liberal... you certainly didn't think this through.)
The last time I looked, the United States was more prosperous and wealthy than Ireland. I do give Ireland credit, however, for having low corporate taxes - apparently not all Irish are gullible socialists willing to sell their souls for a free strep throat test.
iv only ever had a broken arm but i was seen to straight away. iv known unfortunate people who have been very sick from cancer ect and the irish health care do a great job. i pay tax's alright but its not like i dont get anything back, university and healthcare are both free. trust me i wouldnt trade my health care for yours EVER
i live in europe, we have socialized medicine, and none of the fears americans seem to have have happend. i dond have any insurance, didnt even know what a HMO was until a year or 2 ago, and if i get sick i get seen to straight away and i hafta tell ya, its sweeeeeeeet :)
Women with breast cancer have a 15% greater chance of survival in the U.S. than in Great Britain, partly because of increased availability of mammograms - which Great Britain limits in order to save money.
Obama's plan is hardly a universal health care plan... it's not like Tommy Douglas' brilliant system he created for Canada... Obama is not taking Canada's system. He's doing it American style. The Canadian system is great though. It does have problems just like any other system, but its much better than what the american system would ever offer
It is kind of amazing some "people" think health costs are like buying a car or any other commercial proposition (eg: all the insurance co-sponsored posts on Youtube by varying "people"). You can plan to buy a car or a house: it's your own responsibility and your money allocation--but you can't plan a medical affliction. Not the same. I simply note one anti-health plan person on Ytube had her two fave videos as a) a revolver shooting into a tank, and b) a clip of Milton F'man on "Greed". True!!
Socialism is EVIL! Gimme a break!. How dumb can you be. But if Socialist states are evil so is the entire Europe. The U.S. needs UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE! Freedom of choice? The insurance companies chooses its candidates. There those people with insurance coverages who still die because they are being denied costly operations. Being social and living is a social state is the best thing of HUMANITY, it is out obligation to help the people in need.
We are going to switch to socialism even though we constantly criticize China, Cuba, Vietnam, and North Korea? That my friends is called being hypocritical.
I'm sorry...but I don't think you understand what socialism even means. If anything, we're gonna be more like Canada, Sweden, Norway, the United Kingdom, and Denmark, rather than China, Cuba, and North Korea. Whether that's a good thing or not is a whole different debate. Just don't buy into bullshit, whether its republican bullshit or democrat bullshit.
Yeah but LOOK at the UK, their health system is EFFED UP. Why do you think Canadians come over here for some of their medical procedures? If it's so great, why would they do that? The answer is, they wouldn't.
if the government passes this it will have control weather we recieve treatment, weather we live or die, and takes away our freedom to decide for ourselves. once this passes, if it does, it will be the first step towards the process of us losing our freedom, what one of the main reasons our country was founded for. and our country will become what we fought against in the cold war, a government run nation, in other words a communist country.
You couldn't be more wrong. The government plan will exist alongside private health insurance HMO's and PPO's. That's been made clear. If you're already covered by health insurance through work, i.e. Kaiser, then you get to keep Kaiser. If you lose your job, you can go on the government health plan for a while before you get a new job, and get coverage through your new employer.
I wish people would do their own research through neutral sources before spouting off on the internet.
On April 18, 2009, Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) addressed a group and stated, And next to me was a guy from the insurance company who then argued against the public health insurance option saying it wouldnt let private insurance compete, that a public option will put the private insurance industry out of business and lead to single-payer. My single-payer friends, he was right, the man was right.
The Dems are admitting it: they want to put all private insurers out of business.
Wherever politics tries to be redemptive, it is promising too much. Where it wishes to do the work of God, it becomes not divine, but demonic." Pope Benedict XVI
there are many answers to this question he might have different tiers for the insurance plans, for example if you have kids or you are selfemployed or something you belong to this plan or this plan, and im positive even if the goverment gave you free food they would want you to work, welfare is gonna be reformed too
Obama has already "reformed" welfare, by putting it back the way it was before it got reduced in the late 1990s. The thug is putting millions more back on the public dole. Enjoy your higher taxes to pay for it!
To Hell with you leftists and socialists and fascists. The government has no right to FORCE anyone to buy something they do not want. Take your "tiers" and move where no one cares about freedom.
col- "Canadians and Europeans who can afford it come to the United States "
They come for some very specific procedures. We have some hi tech stuff. But, our overall health system is worse than several EU countries. Very few French or Germans come here( their systems work)...go ahead and make your comparison to Canada and UK if it makes you feel better. But, honest comparison would be against the better EU systems not the weaker systems.
Yes, foreigners come to the U.S. for "specific procedures" - such as lifesaving measures.
How DARE Canada make it illegal for someone to pay cash to save his own life, forcing him to travel to the U.S. for treatment?
I don't know of many Americans who go to Canada because they believe the care there is better. After the U.S. system is destroyed, there will be no place to go.
If the Kenendy/Dodd plan is so good, why does it exempt federal employees and union workers?
"How DARE Canada make it illegal for someone to pay cash to save his own life, forcing him to travel to the U.S. for treatment?"
Under the UDHR, health is a human right.
So is life.
So yeah, how *DARE* Canada forbid the selective and exclusive sale of things every human is supposed to be entitled to for corporate profit? How DARE THEY? Next thing, I don't know, they'll be ADVOCATING THE ABOLITION of TORTURE or some similar Liberal CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!
The French and Germans have Hi tech, no waiting, coverage for all..( at half the price we pay)
How did they get it..????
And by the way...no one is proposing Canadian style "socialized medicine" here. Thats a scare tactic. Our Insurance companies are out of control. They sell bogus policies, that you pay double for...and when you need it.. it won't cover the bills....You think thats OK? The Insurance companies own right-wing TV and Radio and they are controlling you with propaganda.
we can have the best of both worlds...socialized medicine for the poor, unemployed, recent graduates from college, etc. and our current privatized health care through benefits packages.
Private Insurace will not be able to compete with the Government plan. The day this comes in about 40% of Private Insurance will become Public. That alone will drive up Premiums for the remaining members, that in the not so long run will lead to further loss of private insurance. The fact that the government also doesnt have to worry about making a profit and that they get to set costs then their is no way Private sector can survive this.
Once they take it over and then have to cut healthcare costs, how are they going to do it? Taxing what they see as unhealthy, and cutting healthcare cost. Who suffers when you cut healthcare cost? Not the healthy because they arent getting anythning spent on them, it will be people that are depending on the healthcare system that will inevitably pay the worse for this. Government will never solve your problems,they are their to keep us safe and protect our freedoms, not baby us through life
Do you work in the industry? Are you a healthcare professional? Do you have any idea where healthcare costs are coming from? What makes you say 40% of private insurance will become Public?
I am not asking rhetorical questions here, I really want to know. I'm a lover of truth.
Do not work in industry or am a healthcare professional. As of now, Government/employers pay for healthcare, in theory. Reality, citizens pay for it with less wages and taxes. In the new plan, we are playing robin hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. Of course until that runs out, then we will make healthcare cost cuts that will give less quality treatment to people on the public option.
40% of private sector changing out is from estimates of small buisness that drop their insurance and opt to pay the less expensive penalty, aswell as people choosing the cheaper option on top of the private sector insurance policys that are not given from employers. 40% seems to be on the high side of the the estimate, more conservative predictions have it at 20% or so, which would still be crippling.
(cont.) and in reality, no offense to the docs but, i think hospitals and docs want you to get sick because its just more money in there pocket and you are left struggling. they will feel a crunch and hopefully be better doctors and actually care about patients. on top of that its just a load of money being wasted, think about it spend all that money for health insurance, then you get diagnosed with an expensive disease to treat, your private insurer might let you drop cuz its just to expensive
If Obama's plan passes, no one will thrive except the bureaucrats. Socialized medical care will be a total disaster, as it is in the rest of the world.
I hope you like waiting 15 months for a hip replacement when you get old - if Obama allows you to live.
One more time: Obama has not yet put forward a bill.
No one knows what the bill will be. He has clearly said that he has no intention of a "socialized" program like in Europe. He has said it a dozen times.
You are making an argument that can not be rationally made....a straw-man argument based on what you think you know...not what is known.
Like I said before...your video and your posts are based on fear....not facts.
Obama will sign whatever plan the leftists in Congress pass. You may giive it whatever name you choose, but it will be a disaster.
More than once Obama introduced a single-payer plan while in the Illinois state senate. His intention is to have a single-payer national plan. You are an idiot if you do not understand that.
Do a search on "a short course in brain surgery." That video proves why the Canadian system is killing people.
The video if believed proves that one person went to the US for health care. Now why don't you tell us what the total number of Canadians going to the USA for health care.....or of the many Americans going abroad for health care. How about the fact Americans comming to Canada for drugs is itself a billion Dollar industry
man you need some glasses first of all how can you compare auto insurance to health, these types of insurance are on a completely different level. lemme explain myself again what i wrote was that if we had some sort of national health insurance there will a helluva a lot more checkups or screenings to prevent expensive diseases like cancer or a chronic illness. now with this in place america will be a lot healthier and people and businesses like my friends givethemahand wont go bankrupt
And if the government gave me free food I would not have to go to work.
What is your point? Other than that you want something for nothing, paid for with the tax dollars of others.
Keeping yourself healthy is YOUR responsibilty, NOT mine. If you want to be a fat, lazy, cigarette smoking, diabetic, go ahead - but don't ask others to pay for your self-abuse.
Why do others have to pay for YOUR check-ups? This is supposed to be a free country. You are on your own, you are NOT my dependent.
Obama has never proposed a system where you buy insurance after you get sick. The way it works (in both Dem and Republican plans) is everybody is required to have insurance. Yes...some will get help from government to buy the insurance.,,,complain about that if you must.
But the basic premise of this video is flawed. The poster is making an issue of something that has already been addressed by both sides.
Did you NOT hear what your messiah sadi in the video clip? What part of that did you not understand? He will FORCE insurance companies to provide policies if you show up with a body full of lung cancer and a cigarette dangling from your lips! That is a recipe for destroying private insurance - his ultimate plan!
Your solution? Put a gun to my head and FORCE me to buy insurnace against my wil! To Hell you with you socialists and fascists! You have NO RIGHT to FORCE Americans to do so.
OK--so if you get Cancer...lose your job...lose you health insurance and go bankrupt treating your cancer. (FYI- I am describing a VERY typical scenario in this country).
If that happens to you....oh well too bad.
Thats what you are saying?
And if that happens to someone you love...too bad..let em die?
My wife sees this happen at her cancer clinic all the time. it happens to good hard working Christian families, almost every-week.
If you lose your job you can continue your employer health care for three years under COBRA legislation. Don't blame me that you never saved for a rainy day. (Skip the plasma TV and the iPhone.)
No one is throwing old sick people into the gutter to die. That is why we have charities.
Oh, I forgot, studies show that it is conservatives who are the most generous givers to charity in the U.S. Liberals are the cheapskates, because they want the taxpayers to foot the bills.
I don't suppose anyone here noted the fact that there is no "Obama Health Plan". He has not yet proposed any bill or specific program. True, he has spent some time advocating a change in the way do health care in this country. But, he has yet to offer a specific plan. I find it really weird that people keep fear mongering about the big bad Obama plan... that hasn't even been presented yet.
Our system is broken....lets hear everbodys plan ( even Obama's) before we go negative.
You can find details of the Kennedy/Dodd plan on the internet.
OPama and the Dems will DESTROY health care, cause doctor shortages, and prompt waiting lists. Worse yet, the feds will deny coverage for old people, letting them die because the money needed to keep them alive will be needed for all the illegal immigrants.
You can laugh now and ridicule Obama's critics because you think you know better, but in the end everyone will suffer - except polticians or those with "connections."
The Kennedy plan will never see the light of day. Its only used as a wish list. No one ( even the Dems) think it will make it to the floor.
ALL the work will be done in the Senate Finance committee.
Bitching about the Kennedy plan is also a straw-man exercise . I hear Hannity railing against all the time...what a waste of his time and his listeners time. But self righteous indignation is his trade...and he makes $ doing it.. arguing against a non starter bill is just political masturbation
I don't care whose name is on the bill. It will be atrocious. It will cost many times what is projected. It will destroy businesses. It will prompt millions of Americans to quit their jobs and go on the dole. It will cause a shortage of doctors and nurses and hospitals. It will create waiting lists for surgery. It will kill the elderly.
The leftists are killing the golden goose of capitalism. If you want free health care, go to Cuba and be given injections with rusty syringes.
People don't make good decisions when influenced by anger and fear.
FYI- My wife works at a large cancer clinic...most of the nurses and doctors want a government option(and we are in a VERY red state) My kids live in europe and they say the health care there is just fine..no big problems...no doctor shortage..everyone is covered. Thats what I hear from REAL people.
You are grossly misinformed, as apparently are the people who work with your wife. The only people in Europe who like their "free" health care are the ones who haven't been seriously ill. I have traveled the world, and most people would kill to have their illnesses treated in the U.S. People sell their homes to come to the U.S. for health care rather than die on a waiting list in the U.K.
but bad religious leaders cause as much trouble as bad govt. Governments are often bad..but not inevitably bad. Sure, we need to guard against bad govt...but to expect and fear that all governments are self serving and do not have the best interest of citizens at heart is too much of a stretch. There is ample record of good government...and of bad. Medicare is more efficient and less invasive than private insurance. Thats Fact.
Medicare is a pathetic, socialized system that is failing. It has run up enormous, deficits, has cost hundreds of times more than original estimates, is bankrupting the taxpayers, and pushing doctors out of the profession by forcing on them payments that do not cover the cost of their work. Why do you think doctors do not want Medicare patients?
After Obama shoves reduced fees schedules down everyone's throats, watch physicians retire in droves. Americans will then be waiting in line.
colony- 90% of doctors take Medicare. Medicare pays on time (unlike insurance companies). The few doctors that complain about it ...when push comes to shove...still take it because it pays enough...just not as much as they would like. Your comment that it doesn't cover costs is true on only about 5-10% of procedures. The insurance companies screw the doctors on over 20 % of procedures...i know this, be cause I do the books for a doctor. Your opinion is tainted by your politics.
My opinion is "tainted" by my desire for liberty. Your opinion is "tainted" by a belief that the government can make better decisions for you than you can yourself. (Well, that may be true in the case of leftists.)
I have more faith in Americans than you do. I believe that they can make the best decisions about their own lives, and do not need "do-gooders" telling them what to do - and then overtaxing them for it.
The government IS the enemy. The government's power grows every year, under Republicans or Democrats, and every year we have fewer freedoms. The government is against all who desire liberty.
You may be willing to trade freedom for a free strep throat test, but I am not.
By the way, our system, the United States is NOT a democracy; it is a REPUBLIC. Apparently you did not pay attention in school.
The problem is not the United States, which has a perfectly good Constitution and prosperity resulting from what used to be a reliance on liberty and free enterprise.
The problem lies with those who are destroying the system that made the nation great.
When the parasites outnumber the producers, the nation is beginning a downward decline that will accelerate rapidly.
That's it. No more replies from me. You want socialism and fascism; I want liberty. We won't change each other's minds.
One of the BIG reasons that Medicare has deficits is the Medicare Drug Benefit. The drug companies bought-off the politicians a few years back... and cut a deal where the government buys drugs at full retail.
Obama thinks the government should buy at wholesale.
The only thing this video proves is that the poster lets his politics get in the way of the facts. Requiring people to get insurance (with subsidies for the poor) is an integral part of both Rep and Dem universal plans. The poster thinks he is clever...but all he has done is built a straw-man argument.
The President is right: In an employment based care system..being denied coverage when you change jobs ( because of existing conditions) is a BIG problem
Oh if only that were true.....COBRA is too expensive for many working class and middle class families ( way too expensive if you have no job) and there is no guarantee that the insurance company at your next job will take you.
Hence the need for reform...as regards pre existing conditions.
By "too expensive" you no doubt mean that you want someone else to pay your bills. (I don't hear you offering to pay for my groceries, and food is certainly more critical than a strep throat test.)
A typical Democrat/leftist. No wonder the nation is collapsing. It's full of parasites, and the remaining producers are being taxed and regulated to death.
If you had any sense, you would save for a rainy day. Then you could afford a few weeks of COBRA coverage while in between jobs.
You assume too much. Again you are setting up a straw-man argument...arguing against something i didn't say.
i have never been on welfare in my life...i am a 3rd generation business owner..but our health care system sucks and politicizing the problem fixes nothing.
Our system costs double what every other advance nation pays for health care. Its destroying my small business and bankrupting hundreds of thousands of hard working folks.
If you think your business is suffering now... just wait. more government is NEVER the answer - except to those who want handouts or those who collect graft.
well i see that it is a good plan cuz hes trying to help out the middle and lower classes, main reason its good is because doctors charge an arm and a leg for a check up for the uninsured but if its nationalized people will be getting constant checkups and therefore there will be much more preventive measures for cancer and any other disease that can be prevented early. main reason uninsured dont go to the doctor is because insurance is killer and sometimes unaffordable
You have iognored the question asked in the video. Why should I buy health insurance before I get sick? If I never get cancer or heart disease, I can save all the money I would have spent on premiums! If I do ever get very sick, I can then buy a policy and Obama won't allow the insurer to turn me down! (If there are any private insurers left after he gets through.)
Please explain why his policy isn't idiotic, instead of just hurling insults like a typical leftist...
The other thing scary about Obama's plan is that it would likely institutionalize anti-male and anti-white programs that ALREADY in effect with state and federal public health programs. There's money for breast cancer but not prostate cancer; they have "health disparities programs" that ignore predominantly-white deaths from suicide and COPD, etc. (White men alone account for 75% of USA suicides).
Pure corporate rule in the medical sector has its adventages and disadventages, just like public healthcare. Or 'socialized' health care as you put it.
Nobody deserves to get sick, and nobody can choose to stay healthy. You can improve the odds of staying healthy, but even the most fit, not-smoking people can get sick.
And when people get sick, everyone deserves to be treated for it. The amount of money they have should not decide between treatment or no treatment, life or death.
Food is of greater importance than medical care. To paraphrase your statement, "Nobody should have to decide between food or death."
If you are philosophically consistent,
I assume you are willing to buy my groceries. If not, then take your socialized medicine to Europe or Cuba and leave the Americans who believe in FREEDOM alone.
Obama is probably using this as a way to pave the way toward a totally socialist medical system. He'll bring in this system, force the health insurance companies out of business and then say that government run healthcare is now required.
this is probably the worst thing Obama is trying to do. I mean, come on people, do you really trust the government to take care of your health? The government doesn't care about the individual and they only have so much money so why would you literally put your life in their hands? And I'm tired of hearing about how it "works" in Cuba. Cuba is a little shit country that hardly has any hospitals and all their people want to come to the U.S. anyway.
There is no such thing as a "right" at someone else's expense. You are saying that you have a right to MY income to take care of smokers and fat diabetics. Stop eating and stop smoking and leave me in peace. I'm not demanding your money - how DARE YOU demand mine!
well first of all I dont smoke cigarettes, and I eat pretty healthy. I would rather pay for the healthcare of the people in my own country than pay for warfare to bomb some country that was absolutley no threat to us in the first place. and I never demanded anything of you, I'm simply stating that i am for universal healthcare. To me, there is too much corrupution in the healthcare industry we have now.
By demanding socialized medicine you are indeed demanding something from me - because I will have to pay higher taxes and higher prices to give you the "free" health care you want.
Buy your own health insurance. If you can't afford it, get a policy with a high deductible - like we responsible people do.
as i said, i don't DEMAND socialized healthcare, I just support the idea. I don't believe (like many others do, sadly) that it will solve everything. I'm glad you can afford your health insurance, I'm not completely against health insurance. but the healthcare system we have now needs to change, You can tell me all you want like many others have that it's not corrupt. But it could be a hell of alot better than it is now. These capitalist corporations are based on the intent of making profit.
Yes, businesses operate to make a profit. Do you not go to work every week and expect a paycheck? Is not your paycheck your personal profit from a week's honorable work? If businesses are not entitled to a profit, why are you?
Rational self-interest is how people survive. If you were on a desert island there would be no Obama to bail you out. Living with others allows you to trade freely, and everyone gains in the process, but adding FORCE to the situation does not improve anything.
thats not my point. What i'm trying to say is that most healthcare companies will do whatever it takes to get out of paying for the patients care. There are entire units dedicated to finding a way the company can cancel the policy or make the prices so high that you can barely make enough to pay them. Like I said, I'm not totally against the healthcare industry, but it's obvious it needs to change a bit. I'm not like most others saying that socialized medicine will make everything better.
What's the answer? Leave things the same have have even more countless Americans go into heavy debt or go bankrupt due to sky high medical bills or just let sick people die?
And I know you won't have an answer and just resort to lowly name calling.
The answer is the free market. Stop giving free medical care to illegal immigrants, which would free up services for Americans. Get the government out of the business of health care altogether. Before the feds got involved health care was far cheaper than it is today, and people were not left on the streets to die. For those few who are destitute, there is private charity... and Americans are the most generous people in the world.
Of course, this requires that individuals act responsibly...
Citizen or not, hospital kick you to the curb if you don't have health insurance and can't pay your bills. And what private charities are you talking about? Why didn't they help the 18,000 Americans who died last year because they could not afford medical attention and were uninsurable?! And how is the fed possibly even remotely involved with health care except for medicaid for the elderly and taking the occasional bribe from lobbyists!? Do you even know what topic we are discussing?!
Do you not know that Medicare and Medicaid are massive federal programs? Do you not believe they have any effect on the health care industry? Their effect has been negative... as is the case with most government programs.
So you want free health care. Do you want free food too? How about a free house? free car? When do those of us who work for a living get to stop providing for the parasites who choose not to?
Get off your lazy butt and be productive, not a freeloader.
Ha! Ha! HAHAHAHA! Get off my lazy butt and be productive he says. As if 10 years in the Marine Corps infantry, 3 years of college, owning 2 businesses, being self employed, speaking 2 languages, owning my own home and making more last month than you did last year is now defined as "freeloading".
How about this Colony14, I don't want to pay for your children's education because I don't have any yet. I don't want to pay for the police to come to your house or firemen to put out your fires...
It would be slavery if I got nothing back but for my tax I get health care whenever I need it plus I get to help others in a way far beyond what giving to charity could achieve. Having a private health care system is fine for the rich but what about the majority of downtrodden and exploited people in society? Should they just go without their critically needed care just because they can't afford it or because their insurance company won't pay out? My conscience couldn't allow it, how can yours?
Crazymike0128 10 months ago
The poor do not go without care in the United States. The nation is loaded with hospitals that will care for the indigent at no charge. You are, of course, free to donate to those hospitals so they can provide even better coverage for the poor.
You need not be wealthy to have private health care. You need to buy health insurance, eat right, and exercise. If the government would allow insurers to sell across state lines and not force them to cover nonsense like acupuncture, costs would drop.
colony14 10 months ago
I really don't understand why some Americans don't want public health care. I'm British and the NHS is a brilliant system. Free health care when you need it and fast. Health care isn't about profit or at least it shouldn't be, it should be a base right. Without your health what do you have?
Crazymike0128 10 months ago
I need food and clothing more than I need health care. Should the taxpayers be forced to provide those for me also?
Why is YOUR life the responsibility of OTHERS?
There is NO SUCH THING as a right at the expense of others.
colony14 10 months ago
@colony14 If you're starving and homeless then yes a government should provide money for its citizens to eat + a place for them to live til they can find a job. Government should also ensure that enough jobs are there for people and that pay is fair. In any case food + clothing isn't ordinarily crippling whereas health care is. What happened to helping your fellow man? I pay for someone now because I know they will pay for me should I get sick. There's nothing wrong with a bit of socialism.
Crazymike0128 10 months ago
I believe in charity. You are free to give your own money to those who are in need of help and who cannot help themselves. You are NOT free to confiscate MY hard-earned wealth for distribution as you see fit. That is slavery and socialism. You may not mind being in servitude to others, but I certainly do.
What a shame you have such low faith in your own abilities that you expect others to provide for you. I think it's time for you to man up.
colony14 10 months ago
Republicans and allow the American people access to an improved health care system? While far from perfect, this bill is a baby-step in the right direction. Lets hope the NeoCons can put aside their selfish partisan motives and do the right thing for the people.
jayhawk88z 1 year ago
Republicans and allow the American people access to an improved health care system? While far from perfect, this bill is a baby-step in the right direction. Lets hope the NeoCons can put aside their selfish partisan motives and do the right thing for the people.
jayhawk88z 1 year ago
Nothing is free! Anything that is "free" is paid for with higher taxes! Duh!
colony14 2 years ago
When you are dying of cancer, you may care that the brilliant doctor who could have saved your life instead became a lawyer.
But there's no arguing with you - you are clearly young enough to know everything...
colony14 2 years ago
Not that youcare about facts, but:
An IBD/TIPP poll showed that 65 per cent of physicians oppose the Democrats proposed health care legislation, and a stunning 45 per cent of physicians polled say they would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement if Obamacare is passed by Congress.
Enjoy your socialism...
colony14 2 years ago
Didn't the AMA and some other big Doctor association just come out in favor of Single Payer Health Care? Can't remember who the other was, but every doctor I've talked to thinks the rates are ridiculous and favor universald health care.
BTW, Socialism is control over a means of production, so what the hell that has to do with Health Care is a mystery to me. Not that it matters, I'd rather take my chances with a little socialism than the capitalistic oligarchy conservatives enable.
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
The AMA represents only a portion of doctors. AMA trustees gave Obama the endorsement WITHOUT consulting their members - many of whom were very angry at the action.
ObamaCare is the beginning of socialism. He starte by eliminating the insurance carriers. Then he takes over hospitals when they go out of business, etc.
An IBD/TIPP poll showed that 65 per cent of physicians oppose ObamaCare; 45 per cent of physicians polled say they would consider leaving their practice if it passes.
colony14 2 years ago
He's done no such thing. Please send me a link (that isn't fox news or conservablog written.
A lot of people don't like Obamacare, especially since he caved into the idiotic desires of the Republicans who's obsolete beliefs have failed this country for the last 8 years.
Nothing you've said is socialism, btw, but you don't care do you? Health of humans (and animals for that matter) isn't something that bureacrats should be able to make a profit off of.
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
Sorry, there is no Internet link to "common sense." You either have it or you do not.
Obama is a socialist with fascist leanings. No, I will not send you links. Look up the damn definitions yourself.
colony14 2 years ago
Okay, so let me understand this. You completely make things up and then have the nerve to call it "common sense"? This is nothing more than slander on your part.
And I know the definition of socialism, which has nothing to do with fascism. If you knew anything about socialism or history you'd realize that's it's the very essence of democracy.
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
I did not say socialism equals fascism. I said Obama is a socialist with fascist leanings. Like Hugo Chavez.
The U.S. is not a democracy. It is a republic. Go back to school.
A democracy enables a majority to take rights away from the minority. We have a Constitution to protect us from such abuses. But, no one follows the Constitution.
Now leave me alone. You will not persuade me to believe in your socialist claptrap, and I will not persuade you to believe in liberty and responsibility.
colony14 2 years ago
In school I learned that people vote in Democracy's. Which means that America is a democracy.
And it seems like the majority has taken away gay people's right to get married.
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
In school you neglected to learn that people vote in "democracies." (They do not vote in "democracy's.")
The United States is a REPUBLIC. Your teachers were pathetic. (Or you did not pay attention.)
I don't care if anyone is gay or straight. Just don't shove it down my throat.
colony14 2 years ago
It doesn't have to be one or the other, Mr Grammar Nazi. America is both a Republic and a Democracy. We have represenatives but we also vote in elections.
And yeah, I had a lot of pathetic teachers. That doesn't change the fact that I'm right and you're wrong. Sorry.
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
Enjoy your socialism...
colony14 2 years ago
Wow, you're not even interested in the truth, are you?
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
You didn't understand a word I wrote. It is you who are ignoring the truth and the obvious. Government is the problem, not the solution. (Unless, of course, you are a parasite who wants something for nothing, paid for by others. Good luck holding a job with that attitude.)
colony14 2 years ago
I understand everything you wrote. You don't know what socialism is but you condemn it anyway, you lied about Obama taking over hospitals, you questioned my teachers, and now you are using the non-sequitir of govt is the problem. Which is bullshit. A lack of centralized govt causes just as many problems as too much govt. See ancient Greece and the Warring States of China. The problems are with society in general. Greed, nationalism, ignorance...you know, conservatives stuff.
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
I didn't say Obama would take over the hospitals tomorrow, but ObamaCare will lead to that.
Greed? It is YOU and the big government advocates who want something for nothing!
Get back to me after you've worked for a living for 30 years and have learned a few things about life... in the meantime, watch how the United States is being destroyed, instead of merely repeating Democrat talking points.
It is spelled non sequitur, by the way, and my comment was not a non sequitur. It was a fact.
colony14 2 years ago
I don't want something for nothing, I just don't want people to suffer for nothing such as money or some idiotic conservative notion.
Nothing you've said it's a fact. It's your own empty conjecture and you referring to it as fact is nothing more than insufferable arrogance. Apparently you haven't learned anything after 30 years other than how to be a lemming.
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
As I said, get back to me after you've worked for a living for a while and learned how the world works. I wasn't aware that taking responsibility for one's life and not being a parasite living off others is "talking s**t," but you are entitled to your ill-informed, naive opinion. If the best you can do is argue that my points are "unfounded," you should take a class in logic and debate.
Now go away... I have a living to earn, unlike you.
colony14 2 years ago
Jeez, another asshole who thinks they know everything cause they "work". Listen pal, I've worked harder and dealt with more than a fucking troglodyte like you could ever imagine. I actually served the country that you claim to love. You blatantly pass off possible future events like they are facts and you got the nerve to tell me about logic and debate? You are blinded by your own weakness and ego.
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
I am not your pal... I choose my friends more wisely than that. I am a veteran who defended what used to be a great nation. You and your kind are now destroying it.
You merely want something for nothing, and like a spoiled child you are whining because I refuse to give it to you. Sorry, earn your own living and buy your own health insurance. I am investing in gold, closing my business, firing my employees, and retiring. Let's see how long the parasites can last without the producers...
colony14 2 years ago
What the fuck do I want from you? Answer: nothing. I'm just holding you accountable for the lies and pathelogical propadanda that you are spreading, PAL!!!
It's hard to believe that idiots like you think compassion over bureacracy is a weakness. It's nationalism that's destroying this country, egotistical clowns like you who care more about America getting what it wants than America being good. You're the type of moron that enabled Napolean and Hitler.
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
You want ME to pay higher taxes so that YOU can get "free stuff" from the government!
"Compassion" is not taking money from one person at the point of a federal gun and giving it to others. Compassion is VOLUNTARILY helping others WITH OUR OWN MONEY.
"Being good" means following the Constitution and being productive and responsible. It does NOT mean taxing the producers to death so that others can watch Oprah.
Hitler came to power because of people who believed anything - just like Obamatons.
colony14 2 years ago
I don't want you to pay higher taxes. I don't want anybody to pay higher taxes. I just think it's shallow and idiotic for you to care more about money than helping your fellow man. The whole concept of civilization is people helping each other. You don't like it, go live in the woods with the other creatures that live without thought.
Following the constitution, huh? That mean Bush is bad?
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
Do not put words in my mouth (the usual leftist tactic). I never said I supported Bush. I oppose any politician who violates the U.S. Constitution, and that includes Bush, Obama, FDR, and Lincoln.
You are free to help anyone you want to help. But do it with your own money. I will likewise help those who I feel warrant it through no fault of their own.
colony14 2 years ago
When the fuck did you liked Bush, you hypcrite? I just think it's funny that you superficial, money grubbing, sons of bitches are so worried about things Obama HASN'T done yet during 8 years of Bush's reign of terror you minions were nowhere to be found.
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
What atrocious grammar and spelling! And such language! I'll bet your parents are proud of you! Or did they kick you out of the basement after they learned you were HIV positive?
colony14 2 years ago
OH MY GOD, I have "atrocious" (dramaqueen) spelling on youtube! My parents are proud that I'm a member of Phi Theta Kappa. So you can take your pedantic non SEQUITUR and shove it up your shallow ass.
So are you going to answer my quesion or deflect some more? When did I say you like Bush?
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
It seems to me that you have been doing the deflecting but, for the record, you wrote:
"When the fuck did you liked Bush, you hypcrite?"
Granted, your alleged Phi Theta Kappa grammar and spelling was atrocious in that sentence also, but I took it to mean I was a Bush supporter. (I am not.)
If that was not what you mean, don't waste your time writing back until you know how to form a proper sentence.
Wow! I was not aware that Phi theta Kappa's standards have been dumbed down that much!
colony14 2 years ago
Considering how utterly delusional you are you have no right talking about standards. And I said "When the fuck did you liked Bush, you hypcrite" after you claimed I said you were a Bush supporter.
Feel free to point out where I'm deflecting, although you can't, because I haven't deflected once.
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
@colony14
one question, how did lincoln violate the constitution?
thundersnake1 2 years ago
Like most presidents and members of congress over the last 150+ years, Lincoln ignored the Tenth Amendment.
colony14 2 years ago
@colony14
can you give some examples?
thundersnake1 2 years ago
The Tenth Amendment:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
If the Constitution does not specifically state that the federal government does not have a power, it does not then have that power.
Lincoln had no legal power to stop states from seceding. They seceded because the feds had grown too abusive, passing tariffs that favored the north over the south.
colony14 2 years ago
@colony14
do you believe it was for the good of the country?
like ending slavery, keeping America united and strong, etc?
thundersnake1 2 years ago
Slavery would have been ended anyway; it was becoming financially insupportable.
Individual liberty is more important than the United States. If secession results in greater freedom, so be it. I would gladly move to the Republic of Texas or the Republic of Alaska to rid myself of the IRS, Social Security and Medicare taxes, and business-killing taxes and regulations. A nation of producers in Alaska is better than a nation of parasites in the other 49 states.
colony14 2 years ago
@colony14
spoken like a true libertarian
some things you mention make sense, but i would not want to America to be vulnerable. but, you do make alot of sense
thundersnake1 2 years ago
You know why most people, including myself, voted for Obama, PAL? Because the Republicans are such worthless failures that voting for them at this point is insane.
And there's a lot more to being good that than, you little eichmann. People like you produce nothing but stagnation and idiocy.
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
I did not say I was a Republican. I tend to vote Libertarian - not that it's any of your business, but it's worth mentioning simply to point out that jumping to conclusions is a habit you should break if you ever want a decent job.
colony14 2 years ago
You're not a libertarian. You show all the signs of a pathelogical nationalistic conservative. You're petty, you project, you use empty denial and logical fallacies like crazy, you brag about working as though you are proud to be a tool, you only care about money, and you'll say anything to preserve your sophistry no matter how dumb it makes you look.
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
This is blatantly true. It's clear that the only reason Obama won was beacuse of his skin color. The Democrats are so unpopular they can't even win in Massachsetts anymore... Also, it is generally a good idea to mimic Democrat talking points mindlessly... and then calling someone Eichmann. Keep in mind, Nazism is a LEFTIST movement, and conformity is conformity, whether Left or Right.
sgtkpf 2 years ago
This all wouldn't happen if company's paid people a living wadge. I can not buy a house car and pay all my bills and live on my own with my pay check, WTF is wrong with this picture. People back in the 70s 80s could live off the pay at a grocery store and pay their own insurance. Every job wants to pay minimum wedge and every one keeps rasing prices on gas electric water etc. gasoline insurance. what the fuck are we suppose to do i went to school it means NONETHING@colony14
formyfriends01 1 year ago
And I'm not trying to turn you to anything. I just think you should know what you are talking about before talking shit, is all.
Essentially your opinions are completely unfounded.
GoodOldHalo 2 years ago
Proof? As the government reduces payments to doctors to save money, they will leave the profession - and students will go into law instead of medicine.
Hospitals will go out of business if their fees are slashed. You don't need "proof," just the common sense understanding that a business cannot spend more than it takes in without failing! Have they not taught you that in college?
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Mommy and daddy are paying for your education, for example.
colony14 2 years ago
You are an idiot. You will end up with worse health care that costs you more. There will be severe doctor shortages. Hospitals will go out of business. All because you want something for nothing...
You must work for the government. No reasonable employer would hire someone with your lack of common sense.
colony14 2 years ago
The only homeless people in the U.S. are those who are in that situation because of booze or drugs or gambling. Actions have consequences. Grow up and accept it, Peter Pan.
Leftists want no consequences to their actions. Parasites all...
colony14 2 years ago
The WHO has STOPPED issuing those rankings because of bias in collecting the data.
The rankings are meaningless because they include things like ranking of care availability. Of course someone who gets "free stuff" would rank that as good! Duh!
There is also distortion because of how data is counted. In the U.S., stillbirths are counted as infant deaths. But in many countries they are counted only as miscarriages. That distorts infant mortality rankings.
Go live in Cuba for your free care.
colony14 2 years ago
The health insurance companies made, on average, about 3.3% profit last year. Did you get to keep more than 3.3% of your paycheck after taxes?
Instead of whining about how others are able to earn money, why not get a productive job and stop being a parasite sucking the wealth from the rest of us...
colony14 2 years ago
You don't get it, do you? This stupid requirement will encourage people to CANCEL their insurance! Why pay premiums if you are healthy? Just wait until you get sick and then buy insurance!
The result will be fewer healthy people paying premiums, which will force the insurance companies to raise the rates on the older customers in order to make up the lost revenue.
Duh!
(You must be a liberal... you certainly didn't think this through.)
colony14 2 years ago
hahaha american Ignorance can be funny sometimes...
irishsocialist32 2 years ago
The last time I looked, the United States was more prosperous and wealthy than Ireland. I do give Ireland credit, however, for having low corporate taxes - apparently not all Irish are gullible socialists willing to sell their souls for a free strep throat test.
colony14 2 years ago
iv only ever had a broken arm but i was seen to straight away. iv known unfortunate people who have been very sick from cancer ect and the irish health care do a great job. i pay tax's alright but its not like i dont get anything back, university and healthcare are both free. trust me i wouldnt trade my health care for yours EVER
irishsocialist32 2 years ago
Good luck staying healthy!
colony14 2 years ago
i live in europe, we have socialized medicine, and none of the fears americans seem to have have happend. i dond have any insurance, didnt even know what a HMO was until a year or 2 ago, and if i get sick i get seen to straight away and i hafta tell ya, its sweeeeeeeet :)
irishsocialist32 2 years ago
Get back to us and let us know how you like it if you ever get REALLY sick, okay?
And how do you like your incredibly high taxes?
colony14 2 years ago
do you know many things those high taxes cover ?
more than you think. try some research
ragingtortoise 2 years ago
Yes, I do. Those high taxes cover things individuals should be doing for themselves - if they had any sense of responsibility.
The government is needed for defense, police, courts, roads... and that's about it. Everything else can and should be done in the private sector.
Those who want the government to do more are parasites who want others to pay for their subsistence.
colony14 2 years ago
Women with breast cancer have a 15% greater chance of survival in the U.S. than in Great Britain, partly because of increased availability of mammograms - which Great Britain limits in order to save money.
colony14 2 years ago
Obama's plan is hardly a universal health care plan... it's not like Tommy Douglas' brilliant system he created for Canada... Obama is not taking Canada's system. He's doing it American style. The Canadian system is great though. It does have problems just like any other system, but its much better than what the american system would ever offer
loucious22 2 years ago
Obamas plan is the first step toward universal healthcare.
Culture261 2 years ago
If Canada's system, is so good, why are they changing it to introduce elements of capitalism and the free market?
colony14 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It is kind of amazing some "people" think health costs are like buying a car or any other commercial proposition (eg: all the insurance co-sponsored posts on Youtube by varying "people"). You can plan to buy a car or a house: it's your own responsibility and your money allocation--but you can't plan a medical affliction. Not the same. I simply note one anti-health plan person on Ytube had her two fave videos as a) a revolver shooting into a tank, and b) a clip of Milton F'man on "Greed". True!!
livegems 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Socialism is EVIL! Gimme a break!. How dumb can you be. But if Socialist states are evil so is the entire Europe. The U.S. needs UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE! Freedom of choice? The insurance companies chooses its candidates. There those people with insurance coverages who still die because they are being denied costly operations. Being social and living is a social state is the best thing of HUMANITY, it is out obligation to help the people in need.
edisondick 2 years ago
Strawman argument. Obviously, that's not how the new healthcare reforms will work.
sakredfire 2 years ago
We are going to switch to socialism even though we constantly criticize China, Cuba, Vietnam, and North Korea? That my friends is called being hypocritical.
thegloriousryius 2 years ago
I'm sorry...but I don't think you understand what socialism even means. If anything, we're gonna be more like Canada, Sweden, Norway, the United Kingdom, and Denmark, rather than China, Cuba, and North Korea. Whether that's a good thing or not is a whole different debate. Just don't buy into bullshit, whether its republican bullshit or democrat bullshit.
sakredfire 2 years ago
Yeah but LOOK at the UK, their health system is EFFED UP. Why do you think Canadians come over here for some of their medical procedures? If it's so great, why would they do that? The answer is, they wouldn't.
iluvroyals2much 2 years ago
if the government passes this it will have control weather we recieve treatment, weather we live or die, and takes away our freedom to decide for ourselves. once this passes, if it does, it will be the first step towards the process of us losing our freedom, what one of the main reasons our country was founded for. and our country will become what we fought against in the cold war, a government run nation, in other words a communist country.
2012BOND 2 years ago
Comment removed
givethemahand 2 years ago
You couldn't be more wrong. The government plan will exist alongside private health insurance HMO's and PPO's. That's been made clear. If you're already covered by health insurance through work, i.e. Kaiser, then you get to keep Kaiser. If you lose your job, you can go on the government health plan for a while before you get a new job, and get coverage through your new employer.
I wish people would do their own research through neutral sources before spouting off on the internet.
sakredfire 2 years ago
On April 18, 2009, Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) addressed a group and stated, And next to me was a guy from the insurance company who then argued against the public health insurance option saying it wouldnt let private insurance compete, that a public option will put the private insurance industry out of business and lead to single-payer. My single-payer friends, he was right, the man was right.
The Dems are admitting it: they want to put all private insurers out of business.
colony14 2 years ago
Wherever politics tries to be redemptive, it is promising too much. Where it wishes to do the work of God, it becomes not divine, but demonic." Pope Benedict XVI
teton99 2 years ago
hahahah typical cheap-worded polli!
ntn1987 2 years ago
there are many answers to this question he might have different tiers for the insurance plans, for example if you have kids or you are selfemployed or something you belong to this plan or this plan, and im positive even if the goverment gave you free food they would want you to work, welfare is gonna be reformed too
patentstillpending 2 years ago
Obama has already "reformed" welfare, by putting it back the way it was before it got reduced in the late 1990s. The thug is putting millions more back on the public dole. Enjoy your higher taxes to pay for it!
To Hell with you leftists and socialists and fascists. The government has no right to FORCE anyone to buy something they do not want. Take your "tiers" and move where no one cares about freedom.
colony14 2 years ago
yet canada and europe have nationalized healthcare and are thriving
patentstillpending 2 years ago
Sure, that is why Canadians and Europeans who can afford it come to the United States for health care.
You don't have to look far to find those horror stories. The media may ignore them, but they are there in the thousands.
colony14 2 years ago
col- "Canadians and Europeans who can afford it come to the United States "
They come for some very specific procedures. We have some hi tech stuff. But, our overall health system is worse than several EU countries. Very few French or Germans come here( their systems work)...go ahead and make your comparison to Canada and UK if it makes you feel better. But, honest comparison would be against the better EU systems not the weaker systems.
Do you really seek honest comparison?
givethemahand 2 years ago
Yes, foreigners come to the U.S. for "specific procedures" - such as lifesaving measures.
How DARE Canada make it illegal for someone to pay cash to save his own life, forcing him to travel to the U.S. for treatment?
I don't know of many Americans who go to Canada because they believe the care there is better. After the U.S. system is destroyed, there will be no place to go.
If the Kenendy/Dodd plan is so good, why does it exempt federal employees and union workers?
colony14 2 years ago
"How DARE Canada make it illegal for someone to pay cash to save his own life, forcing him to travel to the U.S. for treatment?"
Under the UDHR, health is a human right.
So is life.
So yeah, how *DARE* Canada forbid the selective and exclusive sale of things every human is supposed to be entitled to for corporate profit? How DARE THEY? Next thing, I don't know, they'll be ADVOCATING THE ABOLITION of TORTURE or some similar Liberal CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lol.
LastAngryMan2 2 years ago
LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,
I agree.
thegloriousryius 2 years ago
We have those hi tech things because we dont have socialized medicine in the 1st place. Like alot of Canadians come to US hospitals.
generationKILL29 2 years ago
The French and Germans have Hi tech, no waiting, coverage for all..( at half the price we pay)
How did they get it..????
And by the way...no one is proposing Canadian style "socialized medicine" here. Thats a scare tactic. Our Insurance companies are out of control. They sell bogus policies, that you pay double for...and when you need it.. it won't cover the bills....You think thats OK? The Insurance companies own right-wing TV and Radio and they are controlling you with propaganda.
givethemahand 2 years ago
we can have the best of both worlds...socialized medicine for the poor, unemployed, recent graduates from college, etc. and our current privatized health care through benefits packages.
sakredfire 2 years ago
Private Insurace will not be able to compete with the Government plan. The day this comes in about 40% of Private Insurance will become Public. That alone will drive up Premiums for the remaining members, that in the not so long run will lead to further loss of private insurance. The fact that the government also doesnt have to worry about making a profit and that they get to set costs then their is no way Private sector can survive this.
Culture261 2 years ago
Once they take it over and then have to cut healthcare costs, how are they going to do it? Taxing what they see as unhealthy, and cutting healthcare cost. Who suffers when you cut healthcare cost? Not the healthy because they arent getting anythning spent on them, it will be people that are depending on the healthcare system that will inevitably pay the worse for this. Government will never solve your problems,they are their to keep us safe and protect our freedoms, not baby us through life
Culture261 2 years ago
Do you work in the industry? Are you a healthcare professional? Do you have any idea where healthcare costs are coming from? What makes you say 40% of private insurance will become Public?
I am not asking rhetorical questions here, I really want to know. I'm a lover of truth.
sakredfire 2 years ago
Do not work in industry or am a healthcare professional. As of now, Government/employers pay for healthcare, in theory. Reality, citizens pay for it with less wages and taxes. In the new plan, we are playing robin hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. Of course until that runs out, then we will make healthcare cost cuts that will give less quality treatment to people on the public option.
Culture261 2 years ago
40% of private sector changing out is from estimates of small buisness that drop their insurance and opt to pay the less expensive penalty, aswell as people choosing the cheaper option on top of the private sector insurance policys that are not given from employers. 40% seems to be on the high side of the the estimate, more conservative predictions have it at 20% or so, which would still be crippling.
Culture261 2 years ago
Thanks
sakredfire 2 years ago
Well said.
Even our British system is a hell of a lot better than the US one as far as I'm concerned.
LastAngryMan2 2 years ago
(cont.) and in reality, no offense to the docs but, i think hospitals and docs want you to get sick because its just more money in there pocket and you are left struggling. they will feel a crunch and hopefully be better doctors and actually care about patients. on top of that its just a load of money being wasted, think about it spend all that money for health insurance, then you get diagnosed with an expensive disease to treat, your private insurer might let you drop cuz its just to expensive
patentstillpending 2 years ago
If Obama's plan passes, no one will thrive except the bureaucrats. Socialized medical care will be a total disaster, as it is in the rest of the world.
I hope you like waiting 15 months for a hip replacement when you get old - if Obama allows you to live.
colony14 2 years ago
col- "if Obama's plan passes"
You keep talking about "Obama's Plan"
One more time: Obama has not yet put forward a bill.
No one knows what the bill will be. He has clearly said that he has no intention of a "socialized" program like in Europe. He has said it a dozen times.
You are making an argument that can not be rationally made....a straw-man argument based on what you think you know...not what is known.
Like I said before...your video and your posts are based on fear....not facts.
givethemahand 2 years ago
Obama will sign whatever plan the leftists in Congress pass. You may giive it whatever name you choose, but it will be a disaster.
More than once Obama introduced a single-payer plan while in the Illinois state senate. His intention is to have a single-payer national plan. You are an idiot if you do not understand that.
Do a search on "a short course in brain surgery." That video proves why the Canadian system is killing people.
colony14 2 years ago
The video if believed proves that one person went to the US for health care. Now why don't you tell us what the total number of Canadians going to the USA for health care.....or of the many Americans going abroad for health care. How about the fact Americans comming to Canada for drugs is itself a billion Dollar industry
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
man you need some glasses first of all how can you compare auto insurance to health, these types of insurance are on a completely different level. lemme explain myself again what i wrote was that if we had some sort of national health insurance there will a helluva a lot more checkups or screenings to prevent expensive diseases like cancer or a chronic illness. now with this in place america will be a lot healthier and people and businesses like my friends givethemahand wont go bankrupt
patentstillpending 2 years ago
And if the government gave me free food I would not have to go to work.
What is your point? Other than that you want something for nothing, paid for with the tax dollars of others.
Keeping yourself healthy is YOUR responsibilty, NOT mine. If you want to be a fat, lazy, cigarette smoking, diabetic, go ahead - but don't ask others to pay for your self-abuse.
Why do others have to pay for YOUR check-ups? This is supposed to be a free country. You are on your own, you are NOT my dependent.
colony14 2 years ago
This video is a straw-man.
Obama has never proposed a system where you buy insurance after you get sick. The way it works (in both Dem and Republican plans) is everybody is required to have insurance. Yes...some will get help from government to buy the insurance.,,,complain about that if you must.
But the basic premise of this video is flawed. The poster is making an issue of something that has already been addressed by both sides.
givethemahand 2 years ago
Did you NOT hear what your messiah sadi in the video clip? What part of that did you not understand? He will FORCE insurance companies to provide policies if you show up with a body full of lung cancer and a cigarette dangling from your lips! That is a recipe for destroying private insurance - his ultimate plan!
Your solution? Put a gun to my head and FORCE me to buy insurnace against my wil! To Hell you with you socialists and fascists! You have NO RIGHT to FORCE Americans to do so.
colony14 2 years ago
OK--so if you get Cancer...lose your job...lose you health insurance and go bankrupt treating your cancer. (FYI- I am describing a VERY typical scenario in this country).
If that happens to you....oh well too bad.
Thats what you are saying?
And if that happens to someone you love...too bad..let em die?
My wife sees this happen at her cancer clinic all the time. it happens to good hard working Christian families, almost every-week.
Your ideology does not trump reality...my friend
givethemahand 2 years ago
If you lose your job you can continue your employer health care for three years under COBRA legislation. Don't blame me that you never saved for a rainy day. (Skip the plasma TV and the iPhone.)
No one is throwing old sick people into the gutter to die. That is why we have charities.
Oh, I forgot, studies show that it is conservatives who are the most generous givers to charity in the U.S. Liberals are the cheapskates, because they want the taxpayers to foot the bills.
colony14 2 years ago
(continued)
I don't suppose anyone here noted the fact that there is no "Obama Health Plan". He has not yet proposed any bill or specific program. True, he has spent some time advocating a change in the way do health care in this country. But, he has yet to offer a specific plan. I find it really weird that people keep fear mongering about the big bad Obama plan... that hasn't even been presented yet.
Our system is broken....lets hear everbodys plan ( even Obama's) before we go negative.
givethemahand 2 years ago
You can find details of the Kennedy/Dodd plan on the internet.
OPama and the Dems will DESTROY health care, cause doctor shortages, and prompt waiting lists. Worse yet, the feds will deny coverage for old people, letting them die because the money needed to keep them alive will be needed for all the illegal immigrants.
You can laugh now and ridicule Obama's critics because you think you know better, but in the end everyone will suffer - except polticians or those with "connections."
colony14 2 years ago
The Kennedy plan will never see the light of day. Its only used as a wish list. No one ( even the Dems) think it will make it to the floor.
ALL the work will be done in the Senate Finance committee.
Bitching about the Kennedy plan is also a straw-man exercise . I hear Hannity railing against all the time...what a waste of his time and his listeners time. But self righteous indignation is his trade...and he makes $ doing it.. arguing against a non starter bill is just political masturbation
givethemahand 2 years ago
I don't care whose name is on the bill. It will be atrocious. It will cost many times what is projected. It will destroy businesses. It will prompt millions of Americans to quit their jobs and go on the dole. It will cause a shortage of doctors and nurses and hospitals. It will create waiting lists for surgery. It will kill the elderly.
The leftists are killing the golden goose of capitalism. If you want free health care, go to Cuba and be given injections with rusty syringes.
colony14 2 years ago
It seams you are full of anger and fear.
Is this true?
People don't make good decisions when influenced by anger and fear.
FYI- My wife works at a large cancer clinic...most of the nurses and doctors want a government option(and we are in a VERY red state) My kids live in europe and they say the health care there is just fine..no big problems...no doctor shortage..everyone is covered. Thats what I hear from REAL people.
What you hear on radio & blogs may not be REAL.
Think about it.
givethemahand 2 years ago
You are grossly misinformed, as apparently are the people who work with your wife. The only people in Europe who like their "free" health care are the ones who haven't been seriously ill. I have traveled the world, and most people would kill to have their illnesses treated in the U.S. People sell their homes to come to the U.S. for health care rather than die on a waiting list in the U.K.
colony14 2 years ago
UK and Canadian systems.. I have no experience with them. So will not comment. However, I am familiar with the systems in the US, France & Germany.
You say you have "traveled the world"...tell me please...what is your impression of the French and German systems?
Any thoughts on how the US can stop the Insurance companies from issuing bogus insurance? It happens all the time. As for getting "seriously ill"...
Many US medical policies are frauds. I hope you have one of the good ones.
givethemahand 2 years ago
Yes, there are some shady characters in business, but the world's greatest frauds are perpetrated by governments.
colony14 2 years ago
"greatest frauds are perpetrated by governments."
Perhaps
but bad religious leaders cause as much trouble as bad govt. Governments are often bad..but not inevitably bad. Sure, we need to guard against bad govt...but to expect and fear that all governments are self serving and do not have the best interest of citizens at heart is too much of a stretch. There is ample record of good government...and of bad. Medicare is more efficient and less invasive than private insurance. Thats Fact.
givethemahand 2 years ago
Medicare is a pathetic, socialized system that is failing. It has run up enormous, deficits, has cost hundreds of times more than original estimates, is bankrupting the taxpayers, and pushing doctors out of the profession by forcing on them payments that do not cover the cost of their work. Why do you think doctors do not want Medicare patients?
After Obama shoves reduced fees schedules down everyone's throats, watch physicians retire in droves. Americans will then be waiting in line.
colony14 2 years ago
colony- 90% of doctors take Medicare. Medicare pays on time (unlike insurance companies). The few doctors that complain about it ...when push comes to shove...still take it because it pays enough...just not as much as they would like. Your comment that it doesn't cover costs is true on only about 5-10% of procedures. The insurance companies screw the doctors on over 20 % of procedures...i know this, be cause I do the books for a doctor. Your opinion is tainted by your politics.
givethemahand 2 years ago
My opinion is "tainted" by my desire for liberty. Your opinion is "tainted" by a belief that the government can make better decisions for you than you can yourself. (Well, that may be true in the case of leftists.)
I have more faith in Americans than you do. I believe that they can make the best decisions about their own lives, and do not need "do-gooders" telling them what to do - and then overtaxing them for it.
colony14 2 years ago
colony- There is a basic flaw in most of your arguments. In fact, there is a tragic flaw in your whole political philosophy.
The Government is NOT the enemy.
The Government is Us! (for better or for worse)
Sometimes our government gets it right...sometimes it gets it wrong. But it is our government. Unless of course you don't really believe in Democracy.
Why do you hate America?
givethemahand 2 years ago
The government IS the enemy. The government's power grows every year, under Republicans or Democrats, and every year we have fewer freedoms. The government is against all who desire liberty.
You may be willing to trade freedom for a free strep throat test, but I am not.
By the way, our system, the United States is NOT a democracy; it is a REPUBLIC. Apparently you did not pay attention in school.
colony14 2 years ago
Colony-
If you think America sucks so bad...why don't you leave?
Here's a video on a place that you would really like:
youtube: REGULATION VACATION CELEBRATION!
check it out ...its you...its really you.
givethemahand 2 years ago
The problem is not the United States, which has a perfectly good Constitution and prosperity resulting from what used to be a reliance on liberty and free enterprise.
The problem lies with those who are destroying the system that made the nation great.
When the parasites outnumber the producers, the nation is beginning a downward decline that will accelerate rapidly.
That's it. No more replies from me. You want socialism and fascism; I want liberty. We won't change each other's minds.
colony14 2 years ago
You're right...your ideology trumps the facts.
Enjoy your paranoia.
givethemahand 2 years ago
One of the BIG reasons that Medicare has deficits is the Medicare Drug Benefit. The drug companies bought-off the politicians a few years back... and cut a deal where the government buys drugs at full retail.
Obama thinks the government should buy at wholesale.
Do you have a problem with that?
givethemahand 2 years ago
You are correct. I am angry that STUPID PEOPLE get to vote, and fearful that they are DESTROYING AMERICA.
Have a nice socialist life! Enjoy your Obama unemployment, hyperinflation, rising energy costs, and increased taxes!
colony14 2 years ago
The only thing this video proves is that the poster lets his politics get in the way of the facts. Requiring people to get insurance (with subsidies for the poor) is an integral part of both Rep and Dem universal plans. The poster thinks he is clever...but all he has done is built a straw-man argument.
The President is right: In an employment based care system..being denied coverage when you change jobs ( because of existing conditions) is a BIG problem
(continued)
givethemahand 2 years ago
You didn't answer the question either.
Why would any healthy person in their right mind buy health insurance if Obama will force the insurers to issue a policy after they get sick?!?!?!?!
His scheme is clear: put all private insurers out of business and socialize the entire system.
You may be worshipping Obama now, but when you're dying of cancer and there is a doctor shortage, it will be your own damn fault...
colony14 2 years ago
No one loses insurance when they change jobs. They can pay for extended coverage under COBRA rules until the inurance at the new job kicks in.
colony14 2 years ago
Oh if only that were true.....COBRA is too expensive for many working class and middle class families ( way too expensive if you have no job) and there is no guarantee that the insurance company at your next job will take you.
Hence the need for reform...as regards pre existing conditions.
givethemahand 2 years ago
By "too expensive" you no doubt mean that you want someone else to pay your bills. (I don't hear you offering to pay for my groceries, and food is certainly more critical than a strep throat test.)
A typical Democrat/leftist. No wonder the nation is collapsing. It's full of parasites, and the remaining producers are being taxed and regulated to death.
If you had any sense, you would save for a rainy day. Then you could afford a few weeks of COBRA coverage while in between jobs.
colony14 2 years ago
col- "you want someone else to pay your bills."
You assume too much. Again you are setting up a straw-man argument...arguing against something i didn't say.
i have never been on welfare in my life...i am a 3rd generation business owner..but our health care system sucks and politicizing the problem fixes nothing.
Our system costs double what every other advance nation pays for health care. Its destroying my small business and bankrupting hundreds of thousands of hard working folks.
givethemahand 2 years ago
If you think your business is suffering now... just wait. more government is NEVER the answer - except to those who want handouts or those who collect graft.
colony14 2 years ago
You didn't answer the question.
Read "Dr. Obama's Health Care Prescription" at:
triplew dott colony14 dott net
colony14 2 years ago
well i see that it is a good plan cuz hes trying to help out the middle and lower classes, main reason its good is because doctors charge an arm and a leg for a check up for the uninsured but if its nationalized people will be getting constant checkups and therefore there will be much more preventive measures for cancer and any other disease that can be prevented early. main reason uninsured dont go to the doctor is because insurance is killer and sometimes unaffordable
patentstillpending 2 years ago
You didn't answer the question.
I dare you to read in full "Dr. Obama's Health Care Prescription" at:
triplew dott colony14 dott net
colony14 2 years ago
This is the stupidest attemt the RIGHT has ever made at a Single Payer system. DO your fucking homework people!!!
BarryinStlouis 2 years ago
You have iognored the question asked in the video. Why should I buy health insurance before I get sick? If I never get cancer or heart disease, I can save all the money I would have spent on premiums! If I do ever get very sick, I can then buy a policy and Obama won't allow the insurer to turn me down! (If there are any private insurers left after he gets through.)
Please explain why his policy isn't idiotic, instead of just hurling insults like a typical leftist...
colony14 2 years ago
Obama is a socialist, no two ways about it.
theporksicle 2 years ago
The other thing scary about Obama's plan is that it would likely institutionalize anti-male and anti-white programs that ALREADY in effect with state and federal public health programs. There's money for breast cancer but not prostate cancer; they have "health disparities programs" that ignore predominantly-white deaths from suicide and COPD, etc. (White men alone account for 75% of USA suicides).
justiceformen 2 years ago
Pure corporate rule in the medical sector has its adventages and disadventages, just like public healthcare. Or 'socialized' health care as you put it.
Nobody deserves to get sick, and nobody can choose to stay healthy. You can improve the odds of staying healthy, but even the most fit, not-smoking people can get sick.
And when people get sick, everyone deserves to be treated for it. The amount of money they have should not decide between treatment or no treatment, life or death.
squallthefierce 2 years ago
Food is of greater importance than medical care. To paraphrase your statement, "Nobody should have to decide between food or death."
If you are philosophically consistent,
I assume you are willing to buy my groceries. If not, then take your socialized medicine to Europe or Cuba and leave the Americans who believe in FREEDOM alone.
colony14 2 years ago
Comment removed
squallthefierce 2 years ago
If you're so worried about getting sick, perhaps you should buy some health insurance. Or do you simply expect everyone else to take care of you?
Liberals=leftists=parasites - they are destroying what was once a great nation...
colony14 2 years ago
Obama is probably using this as a way to pave the way toward a totally socialist medical system. He'll bring in this system, force the health insurance companies out of business and then say that government run healthcare is now required.
theporksicle 2 years ago
this is probably the worst thing Obama is trying to do. I mean, come on people, do you really trust the government to take care of your health? The government doesn't care about the individual and they only have so much money so why would you literally put your life in their hands? And I'm tired of hearing about how it "works" in Cuba. Cuba is a little shit country that hardly has any hospitals and all their people want to come to the U.S. anyway.
wtg2989 2 years ago
I would actually love to see the health insurance companies go out of business. I believe living is a human right, not something with a price tag
misfitwarrior 2 years ago
There is no such thing as a "right" at someone else's expense. You are saying that you have a right to MY income to take care of smokers and fat diabetics. Stop eating and stop smoking and leave me in peace. I'm not demanding your money - how DARE YOU demand mine!
colony14 2 years ago
well first of all I dont smoke cigarettes, and I eat pretty healthy. I would rather pay for the healthcare of the people in my own country than pay for warfare to bomb some country that was absolutley no threat to us in the first place. and I never demanded anything of you, I'm simply stating that i am for universal healthcare. To me, there is too much corrupution in the healthcare industry we have now.
misfitwarrior 2 years ago
By demanding socialized medicine you are indeed demanding something from me - because I will have to pay higher taxes and higher prices to give you the "free" health care you want.
Buy your own health insurance. If you can't afford it, get a policy with a high deductible - like we responsible people do.
colony14 2 years ago
as i said, i don't DEMAND socialized healthcare, I just support the idea. I don't believe (like many others do, sadly) that it will solve everything. I'm glad you can afford your health insurance, I'm not completely against health insurance. but the healthcare system we have now needs to change, You can tell me all you want like many others have that it's not corrupt. But it could be a hell of alot better than it is now. These capitalist corporations are based on the intent of making profit.
misfitwarrior 2 years ago
Yes, businesses operate to make a profit. Do you not go to work every week and expect a paycheck? Is not your paycheck your personal profit from a week's honorable work? If businesses are not entitled to a profit, why are you?
Rational self-interest is how people survive. If you were on a desert island there would be no Obama to bail you out. Living with others allows you to trade freely, and everyone gains in the process, but adding FORCE to the situation does not improve anything.
colony14 2 years ago
thats not my point. What i'm trying to say is that most healthcare companies will do whatever it takes to get out of paying for the patients care. There are entire units dedicated to finding a way the company can cancel the policy or make the prices so high that you can barely make enough to pay them. Like I said, I'm not totally against the healthcare industry, but it's obvious it needs to change a bit. I'm not like most others saying that socialized medicine will make everything better.
misfitwarrior 2 years ago
Corruption in the health care industry? You expect LESS when you turn it over to government?
colony14 2 years ago
hell, it beats corporate rule :)
misfitwarrior 2 years ago
To the person that made this post:
What's the answer? Leave things the same have have even more countless Americans go into heavy debt or go bankrupt due to sky high medical bills or just let sick people die?
And I know you won't have an answer and just resort to lowly name calling.
Trollmaster21 2 years ago
The answer is the free market. Stop giving free medical care to illegal immigrants, which would free up services for Americans. Get the government out of the business of health care altogether. Before the feds got involved health care was far cheaper than it is today, and people were not left on the streets to die. For those few who are destitute, there is private charity... and Americans are the most generous people in the world.
Of course, this requires that individuals act responsibly...
colony14 2 years ago
Citizen or not, hospital kick you to the curb if you don't have health insurance and can't pay your bills. And what private charities are you talking about? Why didn't they help the 18,000 Americans who died last year because they could not afford medical attention and were uninsurable?! And how is the fed possibly even remotely involved with health care except for medicaid for the elderly and taking the occasional bribe from lobbyists!? Do you even know what topic we are discussing?!
kurtharris21 2 years ago
Do you not know that Medicare and Medicaid are massive federal programs? Do you not believe they have any effect on the health care industry? Their effect has been negative... as is the case with most government programs.
So you want free health care. Do you want free food too? How about a free house? free car? When do those of us who work for a living get to stop providing for the parasites who choose not to?
Get off your lazy butt and be productive, not a freeloader.
colony14 2 years ago
Ha! Ha! HAHAHAHA! Get off my lazy butt and be productive he says. As if 10 years in the Marine Corps infantry, 3 years of college, owning 2 businesses, being self employed, speaking 2 languages, owning my own home and making more last month than you did last year is now defined as "freeloading".
How about this Colony14, I don't want to pay for your children's education because I don't have any yet. I don't want to pay for the police to come to your house or firemen to put out your fires...
kurtharris21 2 years ago