@mmt02 Miracles and life changes occur quite often. These are proof enough for most people. This coupled with the historical credibility of Christ, personal conviction is more than other Ideologies can boast. Also people usually have to convert in order to enjoy a relationship with God and for this reason there simply isn't any absolute proof for the none-believer, something spiritual must happen first. The Bible makes it very clear that it is purposefully this way.
@CommonSenseDrummer If materialism and humanism are so bad, then what about why has science improved our lives? We live longer. Our lives are more comfortable, less painful. Inventions like antibiotics, airplanes, the internet make that possible. Did faith produce those inventions? No. Science did. The scientific method is in line with humanism, not religion. Why do we know vastly more about the universe now, then when we were more god-focused? It's simple: Humanism leads to truth.
@mmt02 Humanism provides no basis for finding order in the universe. Look at modern philosophy, you know why it's irrational? Because it's based on humanity alone. Isaac Newton, Francis Bacon and Nicholas Copernicus went looking for order in the universe because they believed in a Creator who gave the universe order.
@MichaelJDonahue Of course it does, humanism has science. And nowhere in the scientific method does it require a Creator. We can explain a lot of the order around us through physical forces and laws. Don't need a mythical creature floating in the sky poofing things into existence. Also any good scientist would ask you two very important questions: Where is the evidence for the existence of this Creator and how did the Creator get here?
@mmt02 "humanism has science." Science is not optimistic concerning human nature, so no it does not. " Where is the evidence for the existence of this Creator?" The testimony of many millions of Christians or conversely the experience of those who worship Satan or pagan gods. There is no disproving or proving Supernature by scientific means. "how did the Creator get here?" God is by definition self existent, an Axiom in and of himself. The question is self contradicting.
@gnomesrule19 Just because millions of Christians say God exists doesn't mean he does. You need actual evidence. If you can't provide evidence for God, then don't ask people to listen to you.
Not a proof for human dignity independent of god, but consider the following: Human morality has changed since the time of the old testament. Back then, marriage was a transfer of property, now we see marriage as a union of equals. Back then, slavery was acceptable, now it's seen as one of the darkest spots in our history. The bible hasn't changed, yet our morals have. Society has fought for more dignity, while the bible has remained the same. Why? Our sense of dignity doesn't come from a book.
The book is not the source, it provides information from and about the Source. The Bible has not changed, but more people have been influenced by it as time has progressed. Haven't the advancements you cite occurred in societies where many people believe the Bible? Paul taught husbands and wives to submit themselves to one another. Where he told wives to obey their husbands he told the husbands to love their wives as Jesus loves the Church-- to love them more than their own lives.
@CommonSenseDrummer What about societies that don't believe in the Bible. Has Japanese society's morality changed over time? Are they an immoral society? And what about Jewish societies? They only believe in the old testament of your bible--the part with all the nasty slavery and women submitting to men. But I see many Jewish families that don't follow that morality. I wonder why? Oh yeah, because most people don't get their morality from a 3,000-year old book.
@CommonSenseDrummer You seem to think that man deserves dignity only if there is a God. What a sad idea--we have to invent a being to make us worthy of respect. I stand by the simple argument that a man's life is an end to itself and thus meaningful to him. I have seen no evidence in the world around me to conclude that I exist beyond this physical body and beyond this life. So I only exist with this life, therefore it is meaningful to me. You haven't refuted that idea.
If there were no god, then you would be right that he was a mere invention. But you are still in the same boat, only your invented idea begins and ends with "I, me, and my"--vanity in and vanity out--manifesting in a gut reaction to treat those with a different point of view with ridicule instead of dignity. But a true infinite, personal God makes moot the charge that He is man's invention and gives a real command to love our neighbor. Now the boat is unsinkable.
@CommonSenseDrummer Look it's simple, all ideas are invented by man based on what he sees around him. I don't understand your hostility to ideas from so-called vanity. You say your ideas come from a magical being. Great. But guess what: If you want to be taken seriously, you have to prove the existence of that being. If someone ran up to you and said that their imaginary friend Rob just told them the world was ending, would you take that idea seriously?
@CommonSenseDrummer 1) That isn't proof that God exists. It's just proof that you want some being to anoint you as special. 2) In the context of the universe, yes humans are nothing. We're no different than a speck of cosmic dust. But, 3) my life has meaning, because without it I don't exist. My life is an end to itself. So are all human lives. We owe every human dignity and respect because we demand it for ourselves. No fairy tales necessary.
Where did I claim to prove God exists? That debate has been raging for centuries so it would be foolish to expect solving it with a YT comment. Actually, "specks of dust" arrogating dignity upon themselves has no possibility of being anything other than a fairy tale. If God be true and actually caused the purportedly "uncaused" universe and created man in His image--then it is no fairy tale. And if all men are owed dignity, that must include Francis Schaeffer and "fundies"
@CommonSenseDrummer Want me to show you how his ideas are absurd. Sure. No one has one shred of physical evidence for the existence of any god, let alone the god of the bible.
Well, if you buy Hawking's model that the universe had no cause and created itself out of nothing, then it follows that we are nothing more than nothing either, unless you you want to posit that we magically became something along the way. You've offered no grounding for human dignity at all other than man claiming it for himself. That's like a beauty contestant being her own judge. The evidence shows that apart from God, man is vain and arrogant--not dignified.
@CommonSenseDrummer When ideas are this absurd, the only thing you can do is dismiss and heckle. If you look at humanism and rational thought as destructive, more power to you. But humanism and scientific thought has extended lives, reduced suffering, and added luxury to life--things religion has never done.
Incorrect. When ideas are absurd you have the option to show constructively how the ideas are absurd and show a better way. Heckling and feeble justifications for rudeness fail miserably. Schaeffer argued that humanism isn't grounded--not necessarily that everything it desires is a bad idea. He argues for a biblical basis for man's dignity as a being made in God's image. Ground man's eternal dignity without God if you can do so politely. Your final phrase is demonstrably untrue.
And one of this guy's followers wants to have access to the largest stock piles of nukes in the world......I don't bloodly think so!!! Bachmann go HOME.
So, under the assumption of unattainable unity (which we're assuming is essential for humanism to exist), how then do Christians expect people to function even under their own doctrine?
Rather defeatist to right off the bat say that man will always war with himself, that because of the individual, he will never know unity of self or among others.
Amazing when you want to draw a line from point A to point B the stuff you can think up to justify that trajectory.I am sure that there was all kinds of junk academic work written in the1930 in Germany that this would fall into the same category of propaganda.
Rude comments are proof of man's wickedness among mockers. Thanks for the real life demo of Schaeffer's point of how humanism leads to despair. Any idiot can heckle, but the peanut gallery has contributed nothing intelligent, much less beautiful.
This video could fertilize enough corn to feed an entire nation for a decade. I know more about Michelangelo than Dr Schaeffer does, and I can tell you that he is full of it. The sound track makes me think of black-and-white sci-fi films. Among other things, Dr Schaeffer doesn't even know what Renaissance humanism is, so how can he tell how to understand the Renaissance?
JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA. WHAT A JERK!!! AND, ANYONE THAT FOLLOWS HIS CRAP...LIKE MARCUS AND MICHELE BACHMANN AND THE AMERICAN FAMILY ASS...
These observations of mankind's moral and spiritual progression through out the pages of history as are reflected in the arts according to Shaffer's understanding, seem much too kind to me. Scripture does not indicate that the reason for mans lostness is an intellectual lack, but instead it has simply been that of blatant rebellion.
Pilot understood humanistic despondancy with his infamous rehtorical question to our Lord after Jesus said that He came to bear witness unto the truth and that everyone that was of the truth would hear His voice. Pilots says -"What is truth?" Poor guy, he had the embodiment of absolute truth right in front of him and he couldn't hear Him!
@mmt02 Miracles and life changes occur quite often. These are proof enough for most people. This coupled with the historical credibility of Christ, personal conviction is more than other Ideologies can boast. Also people usually have to convert in order to enjoy a relationship with God and for this reason there simply isn't any absolute proof for the none-believer, something spiritual must happen first. The Bible makes it very clear that it is purposefully this way.
gnomesrule19 2 months ago
Oh my, this man has usurped a century.
DerekWilliamsMusic 4 months ago
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There are non so blind as those who will not see.
MichaelJDonahue 5 months ago
@CommonSenseDrummer If materialism and humanism are so bad, then what about why has science improved our lives? We live longer. Our lives are more comfortable, less painful. Inventions like antibiotics, airplanes, the internet make that possible. Did faith produce those inventions? No. Science did. The scientific method is in line with humanism, not religion. Why do we know vastly more about the universe now, then when we were more god-focused? It's simple: Humanism leads to truth.
mmt02 6 months ago
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MichaelJDonahue 5 months ago
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@mmt02 Humanism provides no basis for finding order in the universe. Look at modern philosophy, you know why it's irrational? Because it's based on humanity alone. Isaac Newton, Francis Bacon and Nicholas Copernicus went looking for order in the universe because they believed in a Creator who gave the universe order.
MichaelJDonahue 5 months ago
@MichaelJDonahue Of course it does, humanism has science. And nowhere in the scientific method does it require a Creator. We can explain a lot of the order around us through physical forces and laws. Don't need a mythical creature floating in the sky poofing things into existence. Also any good scientist would ask you two very important questions: Where is the evidence for the existence of this Creator and how did the Creator get here?
mmt02 5 months ago
@mmt02 "humanism has science." Science is not optimistic concerning human nature, so no it does not. " Where is the evidence for the existence of this Creator?" The testimony of many millions of Christians or conversely the experience of those who worship Satan or pagan gods. There is no disproving or proving Supernature by scientific means. "how did the Creator get here?" God is by definition self existent, an Axiom in and of himself. The question is self contradicting.
gnomesrule19 2 months ago
@gnomesrule19 Just because millions of Christians say God exists doesn't mean he does. You need actual evidence. If you can't provide evidence for God, then don't ask people to listen to you.
mmt02 2 months ago
Comment removed
mmt02 6 months ago
Not a proof for human dignity independent of god, but consider the following: Human morality has changed since the time of the old testament. Back then, marriage was a transfer of property, now we see marriage as a union of equals. Back then, slavery was acceptable, now it's seen as one of the darkest spots in our history. The bible hasn't changed, yet our morals have. Society has fought for more dignity, while the bible has remained the same. Why? Our sense of dignity doesn't come from a book.
mmt02 6 months ago
@mmt02
The book is not the source, it provides information from and about the Source. The Bible has not changed, but more people have been influenced by it as time has progressed. Haven't the advancements you cite occurred in societies where many people believe the Bible? Paul taught husbands and wives to submit themselves to one another. Where he told wives to obey their husbands he told the husbands to love their wives as Jesus loves the Church-- to love them more than their own lives.
CommonSenseDrummer 6 months ago
@CommonSenseDrummer What about societies that don't believe in the Bible. Has Japanese society's morality changed over time? Are they an immoral society? And what about Jewish societies? They only believe in the old testament of your bible--the part with all the nasty slavery and women submitting to men. But I see many Jewish families that don't follow that morality. I wonder why? Oh yeah, because most people don't get their morality from a 3,000-year old book.
mmt02 6 months ago
@CommonSenseDrummer You seem to think that man deserves dignity only if there is a God. What a sad idea--we have to invent a being to make us worthy of respect. I stand by the simple argument that a man's life is an end to itself and thus meaningful to him. I have seen no evidence in the world around me to conclude that I exist beyond this physical body and beyond this life. So I only exist with this life, therefore it is meaningful to me. You haven't refuted that idea.
mmt02 6 months ago
@mmt02
If there were no god, then you would be right that he was a mere invention. But you are still in the same boat, only your invented idea begins and ends with "I, me, and my"--vanity in and vanity out--manifesting in a gut reaction to treat those with a different point of view with ridicule instead of dignity. But a true infinite, personal God makes moot the charge that He is man's invention and gives a real command to love our neighbor. Now the boat is unsinkable.
CommonSenseDrummer 6 months ago
@CommonSenseDrummer Look it's simple, all ideas are invented by man based on what he sees around him. I don't understand your hostility to ideas from so-called vanity. You say your ideas come from a magical being. Great. But guess what: If you want to be taken seriously, you have to prove the existence of that being. If someone ran up to you and said that their imaginary friend Rob just told them the world was ending, would you take that idea seriously?
mmt02 6 months ago
The deaf think dancers are insane.
TwoMunchuTwo 6 months ago
@CommonSenseDrummer 1) That isn't proof that God exists. It's just proof that you want some being to anoint you as special. 2) In the context of the universe, yes humans are nothing. We're no different than a speck of cosmic dust. But, 3) my life has meaning, because without it I don't exist. My life is an end to itself. So are all human lives. We owe every human dignity and respect because we demand it for ourselves. No fairy tales necessary.
mmt02 6 months ago
@mmt02
Where did I claim to prove God exists? That debate has been raging for centuries so it would be foolish to expect solving it with a YT comment. Actually, "specks of dust" arrogating dignity upon themselves has no possibility of being anything other than a fairy tale. If God be true and actually caused the purportedly "uncaused" universe and created man in His image--then it is no fairy tale. And if all men are owed dignity, that must include Francis Schaeffer and "fundies"
CommonSenseDrummer 6 months ago
@CommonSenseDrummer Want me to show you how his ideas are absurd. Sure. No one has one shred of physical evidence for the existence of any god, let alone the god of the bible.
mmt02 6 months ago
@mmt02
Well, if you buy Hawking's model that the universe had no cause and created itself out of nothing, then it follows that we are nothing more than nothing either, unless you you want to posit that we magically became something along the way. You've offered no grounding for human dignity at all other than man claiming it for himself. That's like a beauty contestant being her own judge. The evidence shows that apart from God, man is vain and arrogant--not dignified.
CommonSenseDrummer 6 months ago
@CommonSenseDrummer When ideas are this absurd, the only thing you can do is dismiss and heckle. If you look at humanism and rational thought as destructive, more power to you. But humanism and scientific thought has extended lives, reduced suffering, and added luxury to life--things religion has never done.
mmt02 6 months ago
@mmt02
Incorrect. When ideas are absurd you have the option to show constructively how the ideas are absurd and show a better way. Heckling and feeble justifications for rudeness fail miserably. Schaeffer argued that humanism isn't grounded--not necessarily that everything it desires is a bad idea. He argues for a biblical basis for man's dignity as a being made in God's image. Ground man's eternal dignity without God if you can do so politely. Your final phrase is demonstrably untrue.
CommonSenseDrummer 6 months ago
Too bad there's no time travel so we can't send this idiot and Bachmann back to the Dark Ages where they obviously yearn to be.
cinriter 6 months ago
And one of this guy's followers wants to have access to the largest stock piles of nukes in the world......I don't bloodly think so!!! Bachmann go HOME.
BoyMixer 6 months ago
So, under the assumption of unattainable unity (which we're assuming is essential for humanism to exist), how then do Christians expect people to function even under their own doctrine?
Rather defeatist to right off the bat say that man will always war with himself, that because of the individual, he will never know unity of self or among others.
Does Jesus know about this?
StolenFoodcart 6 months ago
Complete misunderstanding of Aquinas at 5:17.
WildDoveX 6 months ago
Yup Conservatives don't want to take us back to the 1950s. They want the 1200s back today.
kolar 6 months ago
Amazing when you want to draw a line from point A to point B the stuff you can think up to justify that trajectory.I am sure that there was all kinds of junk academic work written in the1930 in Germany that this would fall into the same category of propaganda.
isi2isi67 6 months ago
If you actually watch the video it's not that bad
stupidjunk878 6 months ago
Humanism fails because...... humanism fails. Therefore the Bible.
^
Christians were always so pathetic when it came to constructing logically sound arguments.
SubTachyon 6 months ago 2
Never trust a man whose beard is a different color than the rest of his hair!
Uarehere 6 months ago
The shot of Dr. Backwards wearing go-go boots at 6:58 is, in itself, worth the price of admission.
GTinsdale 6 months ago
This video is proof that christian fundamentalists are not only insane, but also stupid.
mmt02 6 months ago 10
@mmt02
Rude comments are proof of man's wickedness among mockers. Thanks for the real life demo of Schaeffer's point of how humanism leads to despair. Any idiot can heckle, but the peanut gallery has contributed nothing intelligent, much less beautiful.
CommonSenseDrummer 6 months ago
Francis Schaeffer is just a grumpy old man who hates the world around him.
transtremm 6 months ago
This video could fertilize enough corn to feed an entire nation for a decade. I know more about Michelangelo than Dr Schaeffer does, and I can tell you that he is full of it. The sound track makes me think of black-and-white sci-fi films. Among other things, Dr Schaeffer doesn't even know what Renaissance humanism is, so how can he tell how to understand the Renaissance?
BillH00d 6 months ago 4
JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA. WHAT A JERK!!! AND, ANYONE THAT FOLLOWS HIS CRAP...LIKE MARCUS AND MICHELE BACHMANN AND THE AMERICAN FAMILY ASS...
cruz1352 6 months ago 4
wow, what a load of pseudo philosophical baloney. unreal.
funktifiedghostdog 6 months ago
Sister Wendy > Dr. Francis Schaeffer
If you don't know, just google her.
ccrider895 6 months ago 2
Right-wing politician Michele Bachmann loves this series.
Sigh.
tryggda 6 months ago 15
These observations of mankind's moral and spiritual progression through out the pages of history as are reflected in the arts according to Shaffer's understanding, seem much too kind to me. Scripture does not indicate that the reason for mans lostness is an intellectual lack, but instead it has simply been that of blatant rebellion.
w96725 9 months ago
Pilot understood humanistic despondancy with his infamous rehtorical question to our Lord after Jesus said that He came to bear witness unto the truth and that everyone that was of the truth would hear His voice. Pilots says -"What is truth?" Poor guy, he had the embodiment of absolute truth right in front of him and he couldn't hear Him!
TheBereangirl 11 months ago