It is the funiest thing in the world to see tiny human being with very limited knowledge and intelligence decide who God should call to do His work. Organised religion? You don't think you are doing organised atheism? I know what i talk about i am French. You are a little atheist cause you don't know who real atheist are. The most selfish and lying human beings around. Kent made a mistake so did most of the people in the Bible that is why he needs God. Unless you repent you will no be in heaven!
Thus far Creationists get a rather miserable marginal "F" which stands for "F.A.I.L" while the quasi-Pagan atheists obviously acting as devil's advocates (Couldn't help the pun) do better with a large "D" which is shorthand for "DUH" as the intellectual skills of each are low.
In his excellent book "THE CULT OF INFORMATION" my cousin Theodore Rosak quotes Emil Charter as saying "Nothing is more dangerous than an idea when it's the only one you've got" & it applies to both sides of this debate.
What a thrilling day that was for me when that asshole was thrown in prison! I would have loved to have gone with him as a fly on the wall and listen to him curse god and crying like a girl. It doesn't get better than that.
Heard a conversation between a scientist and Hovind, where the scientist kept asking Hovind for his credentials and peer-reviewed publication. Hovind kept dodging and trying to change the subject. Based on that alone he was a bald face liar, and now I learn this. Figures.
He tried to avoid taxes and helped others too? Well he got something right then... But come on, diss the guy by all means, as he desperately deserves it, but gloating over the IRS? Seriously?
@bigglyguy Who has he helped other than making himself rich? He has purposely mislead and lied to people in his attempt to build his creationism ministry, fame and his bank account. He is rivaling the Flat Earth Society in ludicrous willful ignorance.
@ultim4t32 Well he tried to help others avoid taxes, so good intentions at least. If I mug you, is it good? If I tax you, is it good? What's the difference? A YT post is too small to go into anarcho-libertarianism but to me it's a simple enough principle; taking people's money under threats of force, violence and kidnap is theft. I have as much faith in an invisible, all-powerful never-seen and never-signed "social contract" as I have in Hovind's pet dinosaurs. One day we'll outgrow such crap...
Taxes pay for the majority of things we use, idiot. Roads, schools, hospitals, fire/police stations, ect. The only reason they're failing currently is because people want to make them for-profit institutions rather than public requirements.
@NUTCASE71733 Do you WANT schools, roads, hospitals etc? You do? would you pay for them? Would you pay a fair market rate? Guess what? So would most people! Wow eh? So why do we need a violence-prone monopoly providing its "services" at gunpoint and with threats of kidnapping and theft if you fail to comply with their demands that you purchase whatever "service" they feel like giving, at whatever price they feel like charging? And you called ME an idiot...
@bigglyguy "He tried to avoid taxes and helped others too"
There's no denying the tax evasion but helping others ?
Did he ?
Did he really ?
Did he directly help those in desperate need - or did he just distribute some free bullshit teaching materials to those that "minister" to the needy in the hope of leaching from the disadvantaged at home or in another area of the world at some point in the future ?
My brother that prays for me thinks Hovind is right about creationism, I just don't see how people can believe such crap with all the proof that states otherwise.
@QUIETONE9999 It takes a certain type of people to be an atheist. You're either the question-asking type questions or you're not, its that simple. My first question about my religion was: Hey wait a sec....if God knows everything and he's perfect why did he create Satan in the first place?
@JohnF30Music Kent Hovind still in prison and getting raped? That makes perfect sense. His god LOVES rape! God even requires that a victim of rape marry the rapist! See Deuteronomy 22:28-29. When he gets out, he should advocate for same-sex marriages so God can enforce his law and make Hovind (or is that Ho-hind?) marry his rapist! Biblical justice at it's best!
Homosexual activists understand the power of words.
Please visit my channel to watch a one-minute video clip in which famous atheist Richard Dawkins admits that homosexual activists "hijacked the word 'gay'".
The word "homosexual" is more appropriate and accurate because it, unlike the word "gay", actually describes the behavior/attraction/relationship being discussed.
The word "gay" helps homosexual activists push their agenda.
@lightandbeautiful If their agenda is ending discrimination and persecution from those who believe in invisible, magical superfriends, what difference does it make what they choose to be called?
I'm not a believer but you gotta give props to Ken Hovind's ability to debate and argue. I just watched him take on a whole room of pH.D's at a university and he had them practically foaming at the mouth and he was cool as a cucumber. He can obfuscate, misdirect, and confuse the issue like no one I've ever seen - it's amazing how good he is at it. I'd like to see him up against a pure debater like Christopher Hitchens (R.I.P.) to see who would win but I don't think they ever met.
Why do people think that ad hominem is by default an error of logic? If someone deserves ridicule it can be useful to demonstrate that to them by manipulating their emotions, which is often the only part of their brain which is engaged. There is a long history of personal attacks in the scientific peer review process. See Newton and Einstein for some fantastic and hilarious examples of this. I suspect they just like sounding clever by repeating some latin they've heard.
@jacksawild We don't just think it is an error of logic. It *IS* an error of logic. If a pedophile told you that 2 and 2 was equal to 4, they're still right. And if a murderer tells you that 2 and 2 equals 5, they're wrong -- not because they're a murderer, however. The truth state of a claim is independent of the person making it.
@EnnoiaBlog Therefore if somebody *IS* an idiot, it is not an error of logic to call them an idiot. Not too sure what this has to do with paedophiles or murderers though, this seems to me like loaded language, which is an informal fallacy of logic if your intention is to invoke emotion to confirm your own presupposed conclusions (another fallacy). I'm no expert on formal logic, are you?
He was using loaded language on purpose. He was deliberatley suggesting the poisoning the well fallacy, the same fallacy I think you were alluding to. You seem to be agreeing with each other.
Ad hominem is where you attempt to attack the person not their arguments. "He is a nazi, therefore he is wrong" ad hom.
Insults are not by themseleves an ad hominem fallacy.
"This moron is wrong because....*insert cogent argument here*" - is not an ad hom. Rude but not a fallacy!
@jacksawild Actually, yes, I am an expert in formal logic. I have had 3 semesters worth of university level logic classes. My degree is in philosophy. I gave you two examples of, hopefully, behavior we both would agree to be morally wrong -- pedophilia and murder. And further showed you how such behaviors have no bearing on truth statements made by such people who exhibit such behaviors. In philosophy, that is perfectly normal and logical. Ad hominem is fallacious.
@jacksawild An idiot is an idiot -- true. But even an idiot can make a true statement. And the truth of that statement is not dependent upon the learning level of the person who made it. If an idiot said that 2+2 equals 6, he/she is wrong. If he/she says it's 4, they're right. We could imagine someone who was wrong in everything else, other than 2+2 equaling 4. They'd be an idiot, for sure. But they'd still be correct regarding 2+2 equaling 4.
@ProMajtas An ad hominem is using a personal insult in a debate rather than addressing the issue being debated. This video isn't a debate. It's just guys telling the truth about a criminal lowlife who pandered to the gullibility and ignorance of science that are typical of young Earth creationists to screw them out of money.
There are no copyrights on his books....whaha;). Sure organised religion sucks, Jesus Christ would agree, seeing as He whipped commerce out of the temple in Jerusalem.
So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. John 2:15. He made...it was deliberate. Fuck religion, Praise Jesus.
Because this piece of shit actually had influence on what children were being taught. He actually said that dinosaurs lived with humans! he actually said life doesn't evolve and that the earth is less than 10,000 years old!. Other than maybe murder or rape, I cannot see a worse disservice to children that one can make.
Good riddance to the braying jackass Christ' Hitchens who supported the sanctions and the war of pelf against Iraq. [Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: "We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"; Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it." — "60 Minutes" (5/12/96)]
I realize that there are times when organized religions fails...but some recent studies have shown that church-goers donate more often than non church-goers, are more likely to give to charity, etc.
Basically, I think that you can't blame the whole, based on one part. That part may have withered and been broken, but the others are still thriving as well as trying...
Ugh, is all I can say. Ugh. Yes, indeed, you are so right, Earth was created 6000yrs ago, never mind the BILLIONS of pieces of evidence that dates back between 6000 and 4.5billion years ago. Ugh.
Im an Atheist but i guarantee I could convert every AE babe into believing im their god if I got em' into the sack.I'd lay hands on em' & they'd be speakin' in tongues faster than you can say 'Goddamn!!'
I have no problem with atheists, I am married to one. I see only pettiness though when creationists mock atheists and atheists in turn do the same. There is no real point to it. Til the end of man there will be this diversity, just respect it and respect each other for our world views. A group of guys using the church to do fraud and some priests raping children is bad shit but these people already have problems. They don't represent the whole.
@RageOfTheTiger True, but it would help if the majority who don't share the view of the hypocrites rise up and do away with them so we can return to the proper secular system this nation was founded on.
It is a difficult task I will admit. the guys at the Athiest Experiance have done as much as thye could with what they have to forge some basic framework to restore the barrier of church-state seperation. The ACLU has done it's part in turn. More and more people should speak up in defense of church and state seperation and get educated on what the founding fathers said about religious practice as well as their disdain toward the negative side of religion.
It's because of what's written by our founding fathers is why the texas board of education wanted to remove Jefforson from our history books, whih would in turn bring down the standards of the rest of the country's education since they usually follow Texas' example since my state is the top textbook distributor. Plus Rick Perry's constant cutting of education funding has further degraded the general knowledge of what the US constitution says. It's hard but it can be done.
@NUTCASE71733 Oh, I don't know much about the history of America. I'm from Canada. They did teach us somethings about america when I was a kid but I can't remember much.
Well, the USA was the first secular nation, intended to be a nation governed by law rather than scripture. And the law stated that there was to be no meddling in government affairs by religion of any sort. Likewise it's officially stated in the Treaty of Tripoli that the USA is not founded upon the christian faith. Around 1840 or so southern baptists started to get big egos and you see where that eventually went.
@NUTCASE71733 Yeah. I think the problem originated in medieval Europe. The spanish inquisition and what not. Religious leaders twisted and preverted the bible and persecuted people unjustly to horrible tortures. Many people fled to places like the US to escape these atrocities, so its no wonder the US didn't want to associate itself with religion at the time. It was scary times, in some ways it still is.
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexuality and homosexuality. Even non-religious people know this.
The homosexual agenda is not good for anyone, including those who consider themselves "gay".
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have successfully framed themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
Kent Hovind? Great guy :) Concerning his tax issues... I recomend listening to 'his side of the story' before making a judgement.... should you believe this is an right of the acused... if u do not think so then nobody is really interested in your judgement anyway ;)
@WhyNotHateThemAll I know a lot of people care for him... so - wrong. He did what he believed and it got him in temporary trouble. You do not what you don't believe and do not get into 'temporarily' trouble.
I appreciate people who stand up for the truth despite the risk of obvious consequences. They must see something you don't see...
The best way to straighten out the economy in the United States is to simply tax the Millions, upon Millions of dollars in revenue taken in by the churches.
Tax the churches, and the preachers of the jesus myth!
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
@friedie1jeff Haha! The supreme irony is that Jesus taught that people SHOULD pay their taxes. Maybe Kent should have followed his savior's advice and "Render therefore unto Caeser that which is Caesar's."
@goldenthroat86 That's something, isn't it? These people don't worry because they think that Jesus Christ wrote the Constitution, so that the law is on their side.
Mankind is due for moving to a higher consciousness plane. The same way the suffering of gazelles killed by lions make the species stronger, the suffering of mankind will help us move to the next consciousness level. A greater good comes for the species. The next level is the rejection of greed, materialism and selfishness. Our current capitalist system need to collapse in order to achieve this. If you're not ready spiritually, and doesn't move up, you'll suffer. This is happening now, seek God.
I heard about Hovind a hell long time ago, but he actually calls himself Dino-Man? Jee what an Oxymoron! The mroe I watch the more I realized Hovind knows NOTHING about dinosaurs except that they were huge.
@KokotTheMonkey Thank you for correctly using "your" and "you're." It's saddening that it seems to be that people who use those words correctly are in the minority.
@thorsday121 Ha ha yeah exactly, he was always like "Don't use MY tax dollars (pointing to himself) to teach it (evolution) in schools..." Ummm... who's tax dollars Kent? The taxes from the hard working public rather than loonies like yourself? I guess that just makes him a fraud on yet ANOTHER level.
Easily the most retarted rebuttal to paying taxes ever. Taxes don't go to people (unless one has a government job such as the following). Taxes go to improving society by funding construction, police, education, fire departments, and hospitals. If you want to live in a civilized society, pay your due.
@NUTCASE71733 Oh, so it's civilized to tell people that you will hurt them if they don't pay you. I didn't realize that about extortion.
It doesn't matter what the money is used for. It's taken by threat of violence from people who have no say in how it's used or how much they have to pay. A lot of it is used, as wikileaks has showed us, to kill children in third world countries. Is that also civilized?
How is collecting taxes extortion? I certainly don't recall threats of violence to ANY tax evader. That's bull and you know it. Oh, this tripe of our army killing kids in 3rd world countries using our tax dollars? You can thank the neo-cons for that.
@NUTCASE71733 Extort - to wrest or wring (money, information, etc.) from a person by violence, intimidation, or abuse of authority; obtain by force, torture, threat, or the like
If you don't pay taxes, police will come to arrest you. If you defend yourself, they will hurt you. That's extortion.
I have Bradley Manning to thank for leaking a video of u.s. soldiers gunning down reporters and firing on a van containing children. I know it happened because I saw it from their point of view.
No, it's called common sense. To live in a society you have to put something in to ensure not just you but everyone else benefits. Humans are social creatures by nature and as such we HAVE to get along and work to ensure everyone is able to live relatively well so the species can survive. With the invention of money, taxation became important so the well-being of the population can be assured. Not paying your dues deprives everyone the best life possible, even you.
@NUTCASE71733 Ok, so now you're defending government extortion. Why did you deny that taxation is extortion before if you thought it was excusable? Extortion and theft are wrong. Initiating violence on peaceful people is wrong. Why do I have to tell you this? Has your government education really twisted your mind so much that you think anything the government does is right even if it would be wrong for anybody else to do?
You obviously can't tell the differece between extortion and the need for society to function. Unless you can figure out the distinction between those two, you and I have nothing to say. Before you bring up the education thing again, I had a crappy education no thanks to the right-wing loonies in the Texas Board of education trying to infect me and my peers with bullshit growing up.
@NUTCASE71733 You mean unless I agree with you, you don't want to talk to me. We live in a society that functions by extortion. The very foundation of our way of life is theft, and you think that's ok. We agree on one thing. You are very badly educated.
@NUTCASE71733 Just admit that you're wrong and have the courage to change your way of thinking. Your excuse to stop participating in this discussion only fools yourself.
@PluralOfEverything "So you admit that your argument and dependence on the state are irrational." Don't flatter yourself mate, discussions have to end at some point. He realised it was going in circles coz you have opposing politcal viewpoints. Having the last comment doesn't mean you out-debated him or anything, it just means some people prefer to keep circular discussions to a minimum.
Btw, I say "politcal viewpoint" coz there's obviously no "correct" amount or rate of tax, there's pros and cons to whatever level you set - some ppl will be advantaged more than others with higher / lower levels.
HOWEVER, the key point is that for any taxation system it's only fair everybody pays the required amount. If some people / companies pay the required amount whilst assholes like Hovind pay less, that's unfair... in essence Kent was "stealing" from other taxpayers.
My parents were robbed by people like you because of it. And I wont stand by when someone like you threatens to destroy this country with your bullshit.
@NUTCASE71733 So you admit that your argument and dependence on the state are irrational. You are admittedly undereducated and irrational, but you still continue to insist that you are right.
"So you admit that your argument and dependence on the state are irrational. You are admittedly undereducated and irrational, but you still continue to insist that you are right."
Your entire argument was an Ad Hominem, aka: a well known fallacy. You think you are smarter than everyone else, but you arent. Take my advice, if you want to learn something, go out and fucking learn about it. If you just bitch about how all your problems stem from government, you are lazy.
@boonw If it was an ad hominem, then the person would have to have made some kind of argument that I was claiming was invalid because of some negative personal characteristic, which Nutcase did not. It was sort of a weak threat. I never said anything about thinking I'm smarter than everyone else. That was your own ad hominem, which is pretty ironic. Take my advice. Learn to control your emotions so you won't continue to think with them.
"If it was an ad hominem, then the person would have to have made some kind of argument that I was claiming was invalid because of some negative personal characteristic"
Thats what you did. You were arguing about someone about how paying taxes is extortion, and it was evident that you were associating it with his arguments. Just scroll up and read it.
"I never said anything about thinking I'm smarter than everyone else"
@boonw You're seeing what you want to see. An ad hominem is not always a fallacy. For example, liars are mistrusted as they should be. Irrational people can't be trusted to think rationally, so their verbal flailing means less than the words of somebody who can think clearly.
LOL! That was the worst comeback I have ever seen. My argument was to take the ad hominem in question, and yours was to pretty much say "nope, you are wrong because"
Here, let the adults break down the quotation for you
"So you admit that your argument and dependence on the state are irrational [<- this part of the quote associates previous argument]. You are admittedly undereducated and irrational [<-insult to try invalidate argument]"
@boonw I told that guy he was admittedly undereducated because he said that he was not educated. Being undereducated has nothing to do with a person's character. Irrationality is also not a character flaw. It calls into question a person's judgment, which is why I rightfully used it.
It was more like telling you off. It looks like you're admitting that I was right, so how about you just do what I suggested?
"If a plumber was arguing with a physics professor about relativity, the plumber's opinion would be of less value than the professor's."
no, the physics professor would more likely to be right. If the plumber disagrees with the professor, and then shows him that several books by world leading experts, peer reviewed articles, and experiments support his position over the professors, the plumber would be the one to be more likely to be correct.
Okay, then I offer you a challenge. Explain to me the context in which those sentences were use that would make it so that it was not an ad hominem fallacy? Not only that, but tell me how many days ago were the comments were made?
Cause as far as I am concerned, you and nutcase were arguing over the fact you are a lazy douche who doesnt want to pay his share in taxes, and I just sort of jumped in and laughed at you.
"For example, liars are mistrusted as they should be"
Thats credibility, it weighs on many factors. It doesnt make an argument wrong, but it calls into question the probability the guys word is reliable. For example, a doctor is more credible on disease than an English teacher. The English teacher could be right on the disease diagnosis, but the doctor is far more likely to be right.
And the murder of those people wouldn't have happened if Bush hadn't lied about going to war in Iraq, and in turn using our tax dollars to kill those people rather than fix a faulty healthcare system, improve education, or many other good things that could have come about if not for his and Dick Cheney's bottomless stupidity.
@NUTCASE71733 The murder of those innocent people is the fault of everyone who gave in to government extortion and funded it. The guns and bullets were bought with present and future taxpayer money. But hey, you have roads and fire departments. What's a few dead Iraquis when the people who ordered the slaughter are keeping you safe and secure? Are you willing to trade innocent lives for your convenience? I'm not.
@PluralOfEverything You appear to be convinced that paying taxes is "extortion" by the government and that all other opinions are delusional. That, or a troll.
It seems to be a little late to add to the argument, but know this: if you love benefitting from society - and everyone does; you get a car, a house, a job, possessions, services, etc. - but can't stand AND refuse to re-contribute back to society, then you are just a petty thief.
@PsychoticSnake You don't seem to think that every individual has a right to self ownership and self rule. I don't submit to government authority for one simple reason. I don't want to. It hasn't convinced me, and it seems to be convincing a lot of people that we need to try something else. Sure I'm a thief. But so what? I'm not wrong to steal from an evil organization that calls itself a government. It's a mafia.
@PluralOfEverything Except for the fact that it isn't the mafia. If you believe that your government is restrictive, oppressive and extortionate, then fuck off to China or North Korea. Then try to argue that.
@PluralOfEverything My point is our governments are not oppressive, restrictive or extortionate. The best way to discover that is by living in another country ruled by oppressive governments, or under the rule of criminals.
"It is a mafia, and it will still be true if I go to China. This land is my land. I don't have to agree with you in order to stay."
No, not really. You see adults know how to keep things running smothly. You see, living in your country made you originate as a member, meaning that you eventually have to pull your own weight: to reap the benefits of tax paid services, you need to pay tax too.
If you want no taxes,renounce your citizenship and stop using the infrastructure
@boonw Living in my country made my originate as a member? That doesn't make sense. Living here means I was born here? That's obviously not true, but let's pretend that it is. I have no control over where I was born. I don't owe anybody anything for having been born because I had no control over that either. Being born is something that was done to me, not something I did. If you want me to comply, you'll have to convince me, not coerce me.
"I don't submit to government authority for one simple reason. I don't want to"
Something tells me that if they threatened to hurt you, you would submit immediately.
"I'm not wrong to steal from an evil organization that calls itself a government."
Yes, you are wrong. Me, my family, and my friends paid for all the services and infrastructure, we have a right to dictate who uses them. If you want to use our roads and sidewalks, pay your share or get the fuck off of them.
You know, you speak of the American government as if they are crazy dictator.
First off, you guys dont have enough tax, you are one of the least taxed 1st word countries.
For second, if you want to see an actual "mafia government" then look at Belarus, who has a government who is trying to ban doing any action or inaction (yes, they are making EVERYTHING illegal). You live with a very non oppressive government, which is why you openly bitch online without fear.
@boonw Here are the facts. If you don't pay money to the government, they send armed warriors to your house to physically subdue you and lock you in a cage. It doesn't matter how little the government demands that you pay. The fact that they initiate violence on people who are doing nothing to hurt anybody else means that it is a violent mafia rather than a legitimate government. Just because there are worse mafias doesn't mean this one is not wrong.
@trapfish I'm pretty sure you don't know anything about Somalia. Its problem is too many factions competing for power over the territory. In fact, Somalia is a good argument against centralized government. If the people wanted it, don't you think they'd have it?
@PluralOfEverything The people of Somalia would love a centralized government, stability, food, basic human rights etc. You're right about the competing factions, armed gangs runs by gangsters and local tribal warlords. Chaos and anarchy everywhere outside of the control of the AU, currently acting as the next best thing to a centralized government, I spent 18 months as a security contractor working for shipping lines around the horn, met plenty of Somalis, all desperate for stability
@PluralOfEverything We are governed by consent, the majority will prevails, if we didn't want to be governed, trust me, we wouldn't. I get it, you don't like paying taxes, well I don't like speed limits but even I would have to admit, they make sense. We organize ourselves into societies, with structure and rules, by consent. If you really don't like it, which I'm getting, you could probably find somewhere where no one bothers you, if you dont starve or die of toothache, it'll be a blast.
@trapfish I contend that no government that rules by the will of every individual is truly legitimate. It's not just about paying taxes, and I don't like you minimizing my argument like that. It's about force being used against people who aren't using force first. It's about the fact that the majority doesn't have the right to steal money from the minority.
@PluralOfEverything You don't like the way I minimize your argument? I'm struggling to understand your argument, but I'm not personalizing my argument against you. Look I'm not sure where you want to live, sounds like utopia to me, I don't have a problem living in a constructed society, it has a lot of advantages. If you don't, then drop out, even in the US it's possible not to interact with the government at any level, go back to the stone age, or Somalia, it's much the same thing. Peace.
@trapfish No, I don't like how you make it seem like my argument is that I simply don't like giving my money away. It's about more than that. I articulated my argument quite well. Stealing is wrong. I don't understand how you can still back up the government after that. It's ok to steal if it's the majority stealing from the minority? I guess you're equating order in society with the existence of government. I know of some people in London who would disagree with you.
@PluralOfEverything You go into a shop, buy something and pay the price, thats not stealing, living in a constructed society and paying the price isn't stealing either. If no one pays who provides your services? The vast majority of Londoners are peaceful and law abiding, a tiny minority took advantage of the fact that the police cant be everywhere to steal. I say again, if you don't like the government, don't intereact with it. What you want doesen't exist.
@fabienmaga i have nothing to say to except CUCKOO! Oh sorry, you are French................. LE CUCKOO!
France is a civilised, smart, cultured, intelligent country - how did you slip through the net?
coventryboy68 17 hours ago
It is the funiest thing in the world to see tiny human being with very limited knowledge and intelligence decide who God should call to do His work. Organised religion? You don't think you are doing organised atheism? I know what i talk about i am French. You are a little atheist cause you don't know who real atheist are. The most selfish and lying human beings around. Kent made a mistake so did most of the people in the Bible that is why he needs God. Unless you repent you will no be in heaven!
fabienmaga 1 day ago
@fabienmaga lol french person
ophios 17 hours ago
lol this is really funny.
erti655 2 days ago
Thus far Creationists get a rather miserable marginal "F" which stands for "F.A.I.L" while the quasi-Pagan atheists obviously acting as devil's advocates (Couldn't help the pun) do better with a large "D" which is shorthand for "DUH" as the intellectual skills of each are low.
In his excellent book "THE CULT OF INFORMATION" my cousin Theodore Rosak quotes Emil Charter as saying "Nothing is more dangerous than an idea when it's the only one you've got" & it applies to both sides of this debate.
spacelizardlaw 2 days ago
Awesome, Floyd.
weeryan2008 2 weeks ago 2
What a thrilling day that was for me when that asshole was thrown in prison! I would have loved to have gone with him as a fly on the wall and listen to him curse god and crying like a girl. It doesn't get better than that.
gateman42 2 weeks ago
Heard a conversation between a scientist and Hovind, where the scientist kept asking Hovind for his credentials and peer-reviewed publication. Hovind kept dodging and trying to change the subject. Based on that alone he was a bald face liar, and now I learn this. Figures.
Antiks72 3 weeks ago
You know, we'd go a long way towards solving the federal deficit if we'd just tax religious institutions like we do any other business.
ianat841 4 weeks ago
He tried to avoid taxes and helped others too? Well he got something right then... But come on, diss the guy by all means, as he desperately deserves it, but gloating over the IRS? Seriously?
bigglyguy 1 month ago
@bigglyguy Who has he helped other than making himself rich? He has purposely mislead and lied to people in his attempt to build his creationism ministry, fame and his bank account. He is rivaling the Flat Earth Society in ludicrous willful ignorance.
ultim4t32 1 month ago
@ultim4t32 Well he tried to help others avoid taxes, so good intentions at least. If I mug you, is it good? If I tax you, is it good? What's the difference? A YT post is too small to go into anarcho-libertarianism but to me it's a simple enough principle; taking people's money under threats of force, violence and kidnap is theft. I have as much faith in an invisible, all-powerful never-seen and never-signed "social contract" as I have in Hovind's pet dinosaurs. One day we'll outgrow such crap...
bigglyguy 1 month ago
@bigglyguy
Taxes pay for the majority of things we use, idiot. Roads, schools, hospitals, fire/police stations, ect. The only reason they're failing currently is because people want to make them for-profit institutions rather than public requirements.
NUTCASE71733 5 days ago
@NUTCASE71733 Do you WANT schools, roads, hospitals etc? You do? would you pay for them? Would you pay a fair market rate? Guess what? So would most people! Wow eh? So why do we need a violence-prone monopoly providing its "services" at gunpoint and with threats of kidnapping and theft if you fail to comply with their demands that you purchase whatever "service" they feel like giving, at whatever price they feel like charging? And you called ME an idiot...
bigglyguy 4 days ago
@bigglyguy "He tried to avoid taxes and helped others too"
There's no denying the tax evasion but helping others ?
Did he ?
Did he really ?
Did he directly help those in desperate need - or did he just distribute some free bullshit teaching materials to those that "minister" to the needy in the hope of leaching from the disadvantaged at home or in another area of the world at some point in the future ?
baldieman64 1 month ago
@bigglyguy He most certainly helped delude others with his brand of creationism.
Akira625 1 week ago
Religion Card: Go directly to jail. Do not pass God. Do not pay taxes.
Zephyr7771 1 month ago
lol @ peter
smallrossy 1 month ago
My brother that prays for me thinks Hovind is right about creationism, I just don't see how people can believe such crap with all the proof that states otherwise.
QUIETONE9999 1 month ago
@QUIETONE9999 It takes a certain type of people to be an atheist. You're either the question-asking type questions or you're not, its that simple. My first question about my religion was: Hey wait a sec....if God knows everything and he's perfect why did he create Satan in the first place?
The rest crumpled after that.
blackman6270 1 month ago
Kent's still rotting in prison, right (I hope so)?
jerico641 1 month ago
@jerico641 yep he's still being raped in prison and seeing how awesome his god is. he's serving a 10 year sentence
JohnF30Music 1 month ago
@JohnF30Music
Sweet; there is justice in the World after all.
jerico641 1 month ago
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@JohnF30Music
Sweet; there is justice in the World after all.
jerico641 1 month ago
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@JohnF30Music
Sweet; there is justice in the World after all.
jerico641 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JohnF30Music
Sweet; there is justice in the World after all.
jerico641 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JohnF30Music
Sweet; there is justice in the World after all.
jerico641 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JohnF30Music
Sweet; there is justice in the World after all.
jerico641 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JohnF30Music
Sweet; there is justice in the World after all.
jerico641 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JohnF30Music
Sweet; there is justice in the World after all.
jerico641 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JohnF30Music
Sweet; there is justice in the World after all.
jerico641 1 month ago
@JohnF30Music Kent Hovind still in prison and getting raped? That makes perfect sense. His god LOVES rape! God even requires that a victim of rape marry the rapist! See Deuteronomy 22:28-29. When he gets out, he should advocate for same-sex marriages so God can enforce his law and make Hovind (or is that Ho-hind?) marry his rapist! Biblical justice at it's best!
politicoochie09 1 month ago
Homosexual activists understand the power of words.
Please visit my channel to watch a one-minute video clip in which famous atheist Richard Dawkins admits that homosexual activists "hijacked the word 'gay'".
The word "homosexual" is more appropriate and accurate because it, unlike the word "gay", actually describes the behavior/attraction/relationship being discussed.
The word "gay" helps homosexual activists push their agenda.
lightandbeautiful 2 months ago
@lightandbeautiful If their agenda is ending discrimination and persecution from those who believe in invisible, magical superfriends, what difference does it make what they choose to be called?
ndrthrdr1 2 months ago
Hovind is a charlatan. He deserves to be in prison - and he is.
ndrthrdr1 2 months ago
I'm not a believer but you gotta give props to Ken Hovind's ability to debate and argue. I just watched him take on a whole room of pH.D's at a university and he had them practically foaming at the mouth and he was cool as a cucumber. He can obfuscate, misdirect, and confuse the issue like no one I've ever seen - it's amazing how good he is at it. I'd like to see him up against a pure debater like Christopher Hitchens (R.I.P.) to see who would win but I don't think they ever met.
damrak1969 2 months ago
Why do people think that ad hominem is by default an error of logic? If someone deserves ridicule it can be useful to demonstrate that to them by manipulating their emotions, which is often the only part of their brain which is engaged. There is a long history of personal attacks in the scientific peer review process. See Newton and Einstein for some fantastic and hilarious examples of this. I suspect they just like sounding clever by repeating some latin they've heard.
jacksawild 2 months ago
@jacksawild We don't just think it is an error of logic. It *IS* an error of logic. If a pedophile told you that 2 and 2 was equal to 4, they're still right. And if a murderer tells you that 2 and 2 equals 5, they're wrong -- not because they're a murderer, however. The truth state of a claim is independent of the person making it.
EnnoiaBlog 2 months ago
@EnnoiaBlog Therefore if somebody *IS* an idiot, it is not an error of logic to call them an idiot. Not too sure what this has to do with paedophiles or murderers though, this seems to me like loaded language, which is an informal fallacy of logic if your intention is to invoke emotion to confirm your own presupposed conclusions (another fallacy). I'm no expert on formal logic, are you?
jacksawild 2 months ago
@jacksawild
He was using loaded language on purpose. He was deliberatley suggesting the poisoning the well fallacy, the same fallacy I think you were alluding to. You seem to be agreeing with each other.
Ad hominem is where you attempt to attack the person not their arguments. "He is a nazi, therefore he is wrong" ad hom.
Insults are not by themseleves an ad hominem fallacy.
"This moron is wrong because....*insert cogent argument here*" - is not an ad hom. Rude but not a fallacy!
TheCelticChimp 2 months ago
@jacksawild Actually, yes, I am an expert in formal logic. I have had 3 semesters worth of university level logic classes. My degree is in philosophy. I gave you two examples of, hopefully, behavior we both would agree to be morally wrong -- pedophilia and murder. And further showed you how such behaviors have no bearing on truth statements made by such people who exhibit such behaviors. In philosophy, that is perfectly normal and logical. Ad hominem is fallacious.
EnnoiaBlog 2 months ago
@jacksawild An idiot is an idiot -- true. But even an idiot can make a true statement. And the truth of that statement is not dependent upon the learning level of the person who made it. If an idiot said that 2+2 equals 6, he/she is wrong. If he/she says it's 4, they're right. We could imagine someone who was wrong in everything else, other than 2+2 equaling 4. They'd be an idiot, for sure. But they'd still be correct regarding 2+2 equaling 4.
EnnoiaBlog 2 months ago
wow I have wasted 4 min of my life watching a ad hominem attack.
ProMajtas 2 months ago
@ProMajtas An ad hominem is using a personal insult in a debate rather than addressing the issue being debated. This video isn't a debate. It's just guys telling the truth about a criminal lowlife who pandered to the gullibility and ignorance of science that are typical of young Earth creationists to screw them out of money.
ndrthrdr1 2 months ago
There are no copyrights on his books....whaha;). Sure organised religion sucks, Jesus Christ would agree, seeing as He whipped commerce out of the temple in Jerusalem.
So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. John 2:15. He made...it was deliberate. Fuck religion, Praise Jesus.
LLThenu 2 months ago
Why is it so important for atheists to do ad hominem attacks on a guy who is already out of the picture...or is he not;) God Bless
LLThenu 2 months ago
@LLThenu
Because this piece of shit actually had influence on what children were being taught. He actually said that dinosaurs lived with humans! he actually said life doesn't evolve and that the earth is less than 10,000 years old!. Other than maybe murder or rape, I cannot see a worse disservice to children that one can make.
FellOnSoundGarden 2 months ago
Good riddance to the braying jackass Christ' Hitchens who supported the sanctions and the war of pelf against Iraq. [Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: "We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"; Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it." — "60 Minutes" (5/12/96)]
TheManWithTVEyes 2 months ago
The "Family Guy" audio was the clincher.
5jerry1 2 months ago
I realize that there are times when organized religions fails...but some recent studies have shown that church-goers donate more often than non church-goers, are more likely to give to charity, etc.
Basically, I think that you can't blame the whole, based on one part. That part may have withered and been broken, but the others are still thriving as well as trying...
KeusFrench 2 months ago
"Everybody likes to feel useful. Make-a the worl' go 'round. Back to you, Tom!"
bgiv2010 2 months ago 10
If you're employed by God, I suggest asking for a raise & if you don't get one, it's time to do another job search
Tarynus 3 months ago 12
@Tarynus Don't ask for a raise! You could end up with a demotion, and nobody wants one of those!! lol
skywize 2 months ago
@skywize Especially one from God
Tarynus 2 months ago
@Tarynus Exactly! In this particular situation, working from the bottom up really, really sucks!
skywize 2 months ago
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FatalityX9 3 months ago
Has kent hovind been beaten up in prison yet? Let's hope so. That would make me Xmas very merry indeed if he was.
jrwbtw 3 months ago
Ugh, is all I can say. Ugh. Yes, indeed, you are so right, Earth was created 6000yrs ago, never mind the BILLIONS of pieces of evidence that dates back between 6000 and 4.5billion years ago. Ugh.
shavNsimmo 3 months ago
..And in 2015 he'll be released, in june or july. Much too soon!!
winterstellar 3 months ago
Im an Atheist but i guarantee I could convert every AE babe into believing im their god if I got em' into the sack.I'd lay hands on em' & they'd be speakin' in tongues faster than you can say 'Goddamn!!'
hunkallgood73 3 months ago
pink floyd!
cyberwaffles 3 months ago
I have no problem with atheists, I am married to one. I see only pettiness though when creationists mock atheists and atheists in turn do the same. There is no real point to it. Til the end of man there will be this diversity, just respect it and respect each other for our world views. A group of guys using the church to do fraud and some priests raping children is bad shit but these people already have problems. They don't represent the whole.
RageOfTheTiger 3 months ago
@RageOfTheTiger True, but it would help if the majority who don't share the view of the hypocrites rise up and do away with them so we can return to the proper secular system this nation was founded on.
NUTCASE71733 3 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 how would we do away with them? As nice as that sounds.
RageOfTheTiger 3 months ago
@RageOfTheTiger
It is a difficult task I will admit. the guys at the Athiest Experiance have done as much as thye could with what they have to forge some basic framework to restore the barrier of church-state seperation. The ACLU has done it's part in turn. More and more people should speak up in defense of church and state seperation and get educated on what the founding fathers said about religious practice as well as their disdain toward the negative side of religion.
NUTCASE71733 3 months ago
@RageOfTheTiger
It's because of what's written by our founding fathers is why the texas board of education wanted to remove Jefforson from our history books, whih would in turn bring down the standards of the rest of the country's education since they usually follow Texas' example since my state is the top textbook distributor. Plus Rick Perry's constant cutting of education funding has further degraded the general knowledge of what the US constitution says. It's hard but it can be done.
NUTCASE71733 3 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 Oh, I don't know much about the history of America. I'm from Canada. They did teach us somethings about america when I was a kid but I can't remember much.
RageOfTheTiger 3 months ago
@RageOfTheTiger
Well, the USA was the first secular nation, intended to be a nation governed by law rather than scripture. And the law stated that there was to be no meddling in government affairs by religion of any sort. Likewise it's officially stated in the Treaty of Tripoli that the USA is not founded upon the christian faith. Around 1840 or so southern baptists started to get big egos and you see where that eventually went.
NUTCASE71733 3 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 Yeah. I think the problem originated in medieval Europe. The spanish inquisition and what not. Religious leaders twisted and preverted the bible and persecuted people unjustly to horrible tortures. Many people fled to places like the US to escape these atrocities, so its no wonder the US didn't want to associate itself with religion at the time. It was scary times, in some ways it still is.
RageOfTheTiger 3 months ago
Why doesn't God just spring Hovind from jail?
Oh wait, Yaweh is a vengeful god (but he loves you).
It's pretty staggering the degree to which otherwise normal people can swallow bullshit even when you hold it right up to their nose!
warren52nz 3 months ago
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Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexuality and homosexuality. Even non-religious people know this.
The homosexual agenda is not good for anyone, including those who consider themselves "gay".
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have successfully framed themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
lightandbeautiful 3 months ago
Kent will meet Jesus in jail, but to bad for Kent, this Jesus is spanish and likes having his salad tossed.
sclf 3 months ago
@sclf
bwahahahahahahaha !
NefariousVirtuoso88 3 months ago
Kent Hovind? Great guy :) Concerning his tax issues... I recomend listening to 'his side of the story' before making a judgement.... should you believe this is an right of the acused... if u do not think so then nobody is really interested in your judgement anyway ;)
TonguesDoctrine 4 months ago
@TonguesDoctrine No one really cares about that moron, he did what he believed in and it got him in deep shit.
WhyNotHateThemAll 4 months ago
@WhyNotHateThemAll I know a lot of people care for him... so - wrong. He did what he believed and it got him in temporary trouble. You do not what you don't believe and do not get into 'temporarily' trouble.
I appreciate people who stand up for the truth despite the risk of obvious consequences. They must see something you don't see...
TonguesDoctrine 4 months ago
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The best way to straighten out the economy in the United States is to simply tax the Millions, upon Millions of dollars in revenue taken in by the churches.
Tax the churches, and the preachers of the jesus myth!
waterandphotons1 4 months ago 2
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waterandphotons1 4 months ago
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waterandphotons1 4 months ago
a unethical christian, shows religion does not make you ethical or moral
blackbat1339 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
lightandbeautiful 4 months ago
Jesus must have preached tax evasion
friedie1jeff 5 months ago 19
@friedie1jeff Haha! The supreme irony is that Jesus taught that people SHOULD pay their taxes. Maybe Kent should have followed his savior's advice and "Render therefore unto Caeser that which is Caesar's."
goldenthroat86 3 months ago
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friedie1jeff 3 months ago
@goldenthroat86 That's something, isn't it? These people don't worry because they think that Jesus Christ wrote the Constitution, so that the law is on their side.
friedie1jeff 3 months ago
amazing that people still support him and cant see that he an obvious fraud, pathetic
wearestarstuffsagan 5 months ago 18
Do you have to end with that shitty Family Guy clip?
ByTor190 5 months ago
Matt gives me a boner. Awesome.
aqouby 5 months ago
Kent better watch his corn hole lol
wachnathan 5 months ago
there are also people that have their homes listed as sanctuaries so they do not have to pay property tax
philosophicalreason 5 months ago
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Mankind is due for moving to a higher consciousness plane. The same way the suffering of gazelles killed by lions make the species stronger, the suffering of mankind will help us move to the next consciousness level. A greater good comes for the species. The next level is the rejection of greed, materialism and selfishness. Our current capitalist system need to collapse in order to achieve this. If you're not ready spiritually, and doesn't move up, you'll suffer. This is happening now, seek God.
dejesusluisx 5 months ago
Is Tracie Harris related to Sam Harris?
123454321qcat 5 months ago
Someone provide me the link to Hovind being arrested. I dont believe that one.
RoaccVideos 5 months ago
The only ass hole comparable to Hovnid is the IRS. He has met his douch baggery match
Johnf85 6 months ago
CHOICE SONG FOR THE INTRO....PINK FLOYD FTW!!!!!
lago4 6 months ago
I heard about Hovind a hell long time ago, but he actually calls himself Dino-Man? Jee what an Oxymoron! The mroe I watch the more I realized Hovind knows NOTHING about dinosaurs except that they were huge.
ImAnotherZang 6 months ago
Obviously, the myth that he owed taxes was a conspiracy by the scientific community to discredit him. Why hasn't anyone found any transaction forms?
Phoboskomboa 6 months ago
@Phoboskomboa
There's no evidence of conspiracy. Fail.
NUTCASE71733 6 months ago
Matt should do an episode on Kent Hovind's "doctoral dissertation".
gupsphoo 6 months ago
While some taxes are necessary, most of it is just robbing you at gunpoint. Fuck Hovind though, and fuck Ceasar.
tekproxy 6 months ago
Fuck an atheist
eyeopen 7 months ago
@eyeopen Which one?
PluralOfEverything 7 months ago
Hey Baker, stop interrupting with your stupid comments. You're not funny. Thanks.
KokotTheMonkey 7 months ago
@KokotTheMonkey Thank you for correctly using "your" and "you're." It's saddening that it seems to be that people who use those words correctly are in the minority.
Darklust413 7 months ago
Laugh it up. Making fun of someone for not following a corrupt tax code won't get you out of hell.
NewVinland 7 months ago
@NewVinland Neither will being a fucktard while hiding behind the veil of religion.
PsychoticSnake 7 months ago 17
@NewVinland lol
TheAryonB 7 months ago
The funny thing about Hovind's arrest is that he always bitched about paying taxes, but he obviously didn't really pay them that much
thorsday121 8 months ago
@thorsday121 Ha ha yeah exactly, he was always like "Don't use MY tax dollars (pointing to himself) to teach it (evolution) in schools..." Ummm... who's tax dollars Kent? The taxes from the hard working public rather than loonies like yourself? I guess that just makes him a fraud on yet ANOTHER level.
andyjs2008 8 months ago
It was a set up due to his stand against the federal government.
filoIII 8 months ago
@filoIII
You don't pay your taxes, you get in trouble. Simple as that. Give that which is ceaser's to ceaser.
NUTCASE71733 8 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 Okay, then give me a thousand dollars or I'll come and hurt you.
PluralOfEverything 8 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
Easily the most retarted rebuttal to paying taxes ever. Taxes don't go to people (unless one has a government job such as the following). Taxes go to improving society by funding construction, police, education, fire departments, and hospitals. If you want to live in a civilized society, pay your due.
NUTCASE71733 8 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 Oh, so it's civilized to tell people that you will hurt them if they don't pay you. I didn't realize that about extortion.
It doesn't matter what the money is used for. It's taken by threat of violence from people who have no say in how it's used or how much they have to pay. A lot of it is used, as wikileaks has showed us, to kill children in third world countries. Is that also civilized?
PluralOfEverything 8 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
How is collecting taxes extortion? I certainly don't recall threats of violence to ANY tax evader. That's bull and you know it. Oh, this tripe of our army killing kids in 3rd world countries using our tax dollars? You can thank the neo-cons for that.
NUTCASE71733 8 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 Extort - to wrest or wring (money, information, etc.) from a person by violence, intimidation, or abuse of authority; obtain by force, torture, threat, or the like
If you don't pay taxes, police will come to arrest you. If you defend yourself, they will hurt you. That's extortion.
I have Bradley Manning to thank for leaking a video of u.s. soldiers gunning down reporters and firing on a van containing children. I know it happened because I saw it from their point of view.
PluralOfEverything 8 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
No, it's called common sense. To live in a society you have to put something in to ensure not just you but everyone else benefits. Humans are social creatures by nature and as such we HAVE to get along and work to ensure everyone is able to live relatively well so the species can survive. With the invention of money, taxation became important so the well-being of the population can be assured. Not paying your dues deprives everyone the best life possible, even you.
NUTCASE71733 8 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 Ok, so now you're defending government extortion. Why did you deny that taxation is extortion before if you thought it was excusable? Extortion and theft are wrong. Initiating violence on peaceful people is wrong. Why do I have to tell you this? Has your government education really twisted your mind so much that you think anything the government does is right even if it would be wrong for anybody else to do?
PluralOfEverything 8 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
You obviously can't tell the differece between extortion and the need for society to function. Unless you can figure out the distinction between those two, you and I have nothing to say. Before you bring up the education thing again, I had a crappy education no thanks to the right-wing loonies in the Texas Board of education trying to infect me and my peers with bullshit growing up.
NUTCASE71733 8 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 You mean unless I agree with you, you don't want to talk to me. We live in a society that functions by extortion. The very foundation of our way of life is theft, and you think that's ok. We agree on one thing. You are very badly educated.
PluralOfEverything 8 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
And now you resort to quote mining to make a point, this discussion is done.
NUTCASE71733 8 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 Just admit that you're wrong and have the courage to change your way of thinking. Your excuse to stop participating in this discussion only fools yourself.
PluralOfEverything 8 months ago
@PluralOfEverything "So you admit that your argument and dependence on the state are irrational." Don't flatter yourself mate, discussions have to end at some point. He realised it was going in circles coz you have opposing politcal viewpoints. Having the last comment doesn't mean you out-debated him or anything, it just means some people prefer to keep circular discussions to a minimum.
andyjs2008 8 months ago
Btw, I say "politcal viewpoint" coz there's obviously no "correct" amount or rate of tax, there's pros and cons to whatever level you set - some ppl will be advantaged more than others with higher / lower levels.
HOWEVER, the key point is that for any taxation system it's only fair everybody pays the required amount. If some people / companies pay the required amount whilst assholes like Hovind pay less, that's unfair... in essence Kent was "stealing" from other taxpayers.
andyjs2008 8 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
My parents were robbed by people like you because of it. And I wont stand by when someone like you threatens to destroy this country with your bullshit.
NUTCASE71733 8 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 So you admit that your argument and dependence on the state are irrational. You are admittedly undereducated and irrational, but you still continue to insist that you are right.
PluralOfEverything 8 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
"So you admit that your argument and dependence on the state are irrational. You are admittedly undereducated and irrational, but you still continue to insist that you are right."
Your entire argument was an Ad Hominem, aka: a well known fallacy. You think you are smarter than everyone else, but you arent. Take my advice, if you want to learn something, go out and fucking learn about it. If you just bitch about how all your problems stem from government, you are lazy.
boonw 7 months ago
@boonw If it was an ad hominem, then the person would have to have made some kind of argument that I was claiming was invalid because of some negative personal characteristic, which Nutcase did not. It was sort of a weak threat. I never said anything about thinking I'm smarter than everyone else. That was your own ad hominem, which is pretty ironic. Take my advice. Learn to control your emotions so you won't continue to think with them.
PluralOfEverything 7 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
"If it was an ad hominem, then the person would have to have made some kind of argument that I was claiming was invalid because of some negative personal characteristic"
Thats what you did. You were arguing about someone about how paying taxes is extortion, and it was evident that you were associating it with his arguments. Just scroll up and read it.
"I never said anything about thinking I'm smarter than everyone else"
Your smugness was emanating from your comments.
boonw 7 months ago
@boonw You're seeing what you want to see. An ad hominem is not always a fallacy. For example, liars are mistrusted as they should be. Irrational people can't be trusted to think rationally, so their verbal flailing means less than the words of somebody who can think clearly.
And it takes one to know one.
PluralOfEverything 7 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
"You're seeing what you want to see"
Okay then, lets test you. What do I want to see.
"An ad hominem is not always a fallacy"
Duh, but it is when you use it to try an invalidate an argument, kinda like
"So you admit that your argument and dependence on the state are irrational. You are admittedly undereducated and irrational"
Checkmate.
boonw 7 months ago
@boonw I disagree. It is valid the way I used it. Checkmate.
PluralOfEverything 7 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
LOL! That was the worst comeback I have ever seen. My argument was to take the ad hominem in question, and yours was to pretty much say "nope, you are wrong because"
Here, let the adults break down the quotation for you
"So you admit that your argument and dependence on the state are irrational [<- this part of the quote associates previous argument]. You are admittedly undereducated and irrational [<-insult to try invalidate argument]"
Almost out of a textbook.
boonw 7 months ago 4
@boonw I wasn't using it as an insult. You probably should stay out of conversations you're not a part of. You're not good at reading for context.
PluralOfEverything 7 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
"I wasn't using it as an insult"
Yes you were. Do I HONESTLY have to dissect this any more.
"You are admittedly undereducated and irrational"
That, Is an insult. When you know, the 'undereducated' and 'irrational" parts question his charachter?
"You probably should stay out of conversations you're not a part of"
Lol, running. If you were actually using that basis, you would have said this right away, not after a back and forth calling you out on bullshit.
boonw 7 months ago
@boonw I told that guy he was admittedly undereducated because he said that he was not educated. Being undereducated has nothing to do with a person's character. Irrationality is also not a character flaw. It calls into question a person's judgment, which is why I rightfully used it.
It was more like telling you off. It looks like you're admitting that I was right, so how about you just do what I suggested?
PluralOfEverything 7 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
"I told that guy he was admittedly undereducated because he said that he was not educated"
This has nothing to do with it.I already picked apart the ad hominem,let me paraphrase it
>you are uneducated
> therefore you argument is wrong
Let me ask you a question,going to make it easy for you by making the answer YES,or NO
If a homosexual was saying that gay marriage is ok, and I said 'you are admittedly gay, so your opinion dosent matter on the topic',would it be valid?
boonw 6 months ago
@boonw If a plumber was arguing with a physics professor about relativity, the plumber's opinion would be of less value than the professor's.
PluralOfEverything 6 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
"If a plumber was arguing with a physics professor about relativity, the plumber's opinion would be of less value than the professor's."
no, the physics professor would more likely to be right. If the plumber disagrees with the professor, and then shows him that several books by world leading experts, peer reviewed articles, and experiments support his position over the professors, the plumber would be the one to be more likely to be correct.
boonw 6 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
"You're not good at reading for context."
Okay, then I offer you a challenge. Explain to me the context in which those sentences were use that would make it so that it was not an ad hominem fallacy? Not only that, but tell me how many days ago were the comments were made?
Cause as far as I am concerned, you and nutcase were arguing over the fact you are a lazy douche who doesnt want to pay his share in taxes, and I just sort of jumped in and laughed at you.
boonw 7 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
"An ad hominem is not always a fallacy"
Yes it is.
"For example, liars are mistrusted as they should be"
Thats credibility, it weighs on many factors. It doesnt make an argument wrong, but it calls into question the probability the guys word is reliable. For example, a doctor is more credible on disease than an English teacher. The English teacher could be right on the disease diagnosis, but the doctor is far more likely to be right.
boonw 6 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
And the murder of those people wouldn't have happened if Bush hadn't lied about going to war in Iraq, and in turn using our tax dollars to kill those people rather than fix a faulty healthcare system, improve education, or many other good things that could have come about if not for his and Dick Cheney's bottomless stupidity.
NUTCASE71733 8 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 The murder of those innocent people is the fault of everyone who gave in to government extortion and funded it. The guns and bullets were bought with present and future taxpayer money. But hey, you have roads and fire departments. What's a few dead Iraquis when the people who ordered the slaughter are keeping you safe and secure? Are you willing to trade innocent lives for your convenience? I'm not.
PluralOfEverything 8 months ago
@PluralOfEverything You appear to be convinced that paying taxes is "extortion" by the government and that all other opinions are delusional. That, or a troll.
It seems to be a little late to add to the argument, but know this: if you love benefitting from society - and everyone does; you get a car, a house, a job, possessions, services, etc. - but can't stand AND refuse to re-contribute back to society, then you are just a petty thief.
PsychoticSnake 7 months ago
@PsychoticSnake You don't seem to think that every individual has a right to self ownership and self rule. I don't submit to government authority for one simple reason. I don't want to. It hasn't convinced me, and it seems to be convincing a lot of people that we need to try something else. Sure I'm a thief. But so what? I'm not wrong to steal from an evil organization that calls itself a government. It's a mafia.
PluralOfEverything 7 months ago
@PluralOfEverything Except for the fact that it isn't the mafia. If you believe that your government is restrictive, oppressive and extortionate, then fuck off to China or North Korea. Then try to argue that.
PsychoticSnake 7 months ago
@PsychoticSnake It is a mafia, and it will still be true if I go to China. This land is my land. I don't have to agree with you in order to stay.
PluralOfEverything 7 months ago
@PluralOfEverything My point is our governments are not oppressive, restrictive or extortionate. The best way to discover that is by living in another country ruled by oppressive governments, or under the rule of criminals.
PsychoticSnake 7 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
"It is a mafia, and it will still be true if I go to China. This land is my land. I don't have to agree with you in order to stay."
No, not really. You see adults know how to keep things running smothly. You see, living in your country made you originate as a member, meaning that you eventually have to pull your own weight: to reap the benefits of tax paid services, you need to pay tax too.
If you want no taxes,renounce your citizenship and stop using the infrastructure
boonw 7 months ago
@boonw Living in my country made my originate as a member? That doesn't make sense. Living here means I was born here? That's obviously not true, but let's pretend that it is. I have no control over where I was born. I don't owe anybody anything for having been born because I had no control over that either. Being born is something that was done to me, not something I did. If you want me to comply, you'll have to convince me, not coerce me.
PluralOfEverything 7 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
"I don't submit to government authority for one simple reason. I don't want to"
Something tells me that if they threatened to hurt you, you would submit immediately.
"I'm not wrong to steal from an evil organization that calls itself a government."
Yes, you are wrong. Me, my family, and my friends paid for all the services and infrastructure, we have a right to dictate who uses them. If you want to use our roads and sidewalks, pay your share or get the fuck off of them.
boonw 7 months ago
@boonw no
PluralOfEverything 7 months ago
@PluralOfEverything
You know, you speak of the American government as if they are crazy dictator.
First off, you guys dont have enough tax, you are one of the least taxed 1st word countries.
For second, if you want to see an actual "mafia government" then look at Belarus, who has a government who is trying to ban doing any action or inaction (yes, they are making EVERYTHING illegal). You live with a very non oppressive government, which is why you openly bitch online without fear.
boonw 7 months ago
@boonw Here are the facts. If you don't pay money to the government, they send armed warriors to your house to physically subdue you and lock you in a cage. It doesn't matter how little the government demands that you pay. The fact that they initiate violence on people who are doing nothing to hurt anybody else means that it is a violent mafia rather than a legitimate government. Just because there are worse mafias doesn't mean this one is not wrong.
PluralOfEverything 7 months ago
@PluralOfEverything The alternative is anarchy, good luck with that, have a look at Somalia.
trapfish 7 months ago
@trapfish I'm pretty sure you don't know anything about Somalia. Its problem is too many factions competing for power over the territory. In fact, Somalia is a good argument against centralized government. If the people wanted it, don't you think they'd have it?
PluralOfEverything 7 months ago
@PluralOfEverything The people of Somalia would love a centralized government, stability, food, basic human rights etc. You're right about the competing factions, armed gangs runs by gangsters and local tribal warlords. Chaos and anarchy everywhere outside of the control of the AU, currently acting as the next best thing to a centralized government, I spent 18 months as a security contractor working for shipping lines around the horn, met plenty of Somalis, all desperate for stability
trapfish 6 months ago
@trapfish If what government has is so worth paying taxes for, then why are tax laws enforced by armed goons?
PluralOfEverything 6 months ago
@PluralOfEverything We are governed by consent, the majority will prevails, if we didn't want to be governed, trust me, we wouldn't. I get it, you don't like paying taxes, well I don't like speed limits but even I would have to admit, they make sense. We organize ourselves into societies, with structure and rules, by consent. If you really don't like it, which I'm getting, you could probably find somewhere where no one bothers you, if you dont starve or die of toothache, it'll be a blast.
trapfish 6 months ago
@trapfish I contend that no government that rules by the will of every individual is truly legitimate. It's not just about paying taxes, and I don't like you minimizing my argument like that. It's about force being used against people who aren't using force first. It's about the fact that the majority doesn't have the right to steal money from the minority.
PluralOfEverything 6 months ago
@PluralOfEverything You don't like the way I minimize your argument? I'm struggling to understand your argument, but I'm not personalizing my argument against you. Look I'm not sure where you want to live, sounds like utopia to me, I don't have a problem living in a constructed society, it has a lot of advantages. If you don't, then drop out, even in the US it's possible not to interact with the government at any level, go back to the stone age, or Somalia, it's much the same thing. Peace.
trapfish 6 months ago
@trapfish No, I don't like how you make it seem like my argument is that I simply don't like giving my money away. It's about more than that. I articulated my argument quite well. Stealing is wrong. I don't understand how you can still back up the government after that. It's ok to steal if it's the majority stealing from the minority? I guess you're equating order in society with the existence of government. I know of some people in London who would disagree with you.
PluralOfEverything 6 months ago
@PluralOfEverything You go into a shop, buy something and pay the price, thats not stealing, living in a constructed society and paying the price isn't stealing either. If no one pays who provides your services? The vast majority of Londoners are peaceful and law abiding, a tiny minority took advantage of the fact that the police cant be everywhere to steal. I say again, if you don't like the government, don't intereact with it. What you want doesen't exist.
trapfish 6 months ago
@trapfish People go into shops voluntarily and pick out what they want to buy. The "services&quo