i have studied herbal medicine for years now. Not all herbal supplements are as ineffective as echinacea. Gensing is considered an herbal supplement and it is very effective for increasing focus, mint leaves are an effective laxative, and Aloe vera is used by practically everyone for burns or rashes.
@Shangrily If you have studied this for years, then you would understand that echinacea has in fact been shown to be efficacious in regards to its immune stimulating and moudlatory properties. You would understand that there are 3 common species of the Ech Spp., 2 of which posess significant immunomodulatory effects when used together. The 3rd, when used by itself, does not.
Thanks for the info man. I am not sure why you named the video "What's wrong with herbal medicine?" Do you think all herbal medicine is worthless? Also, what are your solutions then? Thanks in advance.
Herbals are not "worthless" at all. Aspirin, Digitalis and other drugs came from herbs. I'm more about wanting people to think skeptically and realize that there are dangers in alternative medicine. Natural does not automatically equal safe.
I hardly know where to begin with a strident preacher such as yourself. So arrogant, so self-righteous. I will say this, though: I have just as much scepticism regarding the alternative health industry as I do towards the AMA-based industry. That is to say, I don't take anything either one says on faith, but I don't automatically dismiss them either. I do my own research, to the extent that I can, and have, thank God, managed to avoid both for the most part.
An estimated 106,000 hospitalized patients die each year from drugs which, by medical standards, are properly prescribed and properly administered. More than two million suffer serious side effects. Reference: Lazarou J, Pomeranz BH, Corey PN: "Incidence of adverse drug reactions in hospitalized patients." JAMA 1998;279:1200. This is only for hospitalized patients, how about the ones not in the hospital? If the statistics were as bad for herbs, they would be outlawed!!!!
You don't address the point that at least mainstream medications are effective. The vast majority of herbs are only as good as the placebo effect. If the herbs actually worked, then more of them would be mainstream medicine.
A reason why there are side effects with mainstream meds is that for a chemical to be effective there is an effective dose, a subclinical (ineffectual dose) and toxic dose. Sometimes there is a fine line. Also, there are side effects. Herbs would also have these
@imrational Correct - there is a fine line between the toxic & effective dose in mainstream medicine, but in the case of herbs & supplements (vitamins, minerals, etc.) there is generally much more tolerance between the harmful & effective dose & hence far less chance of harm to the patient. Yes “mainstream medicine” is very effective - it has very potent side effects, which are generally not the case for natural substances (except for arsenic, etc.).
A natural herbs "beneficial" chemicals are not suddenly made benign by being in a plant. If you took the amount of foxglove needed to reach a beneficial dose of the glycoside Digoxin, you would be poisoned by several of the other "natural" chemicals found in the plant.
@imrational You always give extreme, atypical examples in attempting to discredit. Exceptions could be found for everything, I was talking about the typical case – I think it should have been understood without having to point it out. Freshly picked McIntosh apples contains 4 mg vit C/100 grams. I take 10 grams vitamin C per day; at that dosage, I would have to eat 551 lbs of apples. Doesn't seem like a prudent way to get vit C, does it? Same applies to foxglove.
Thanks for helping illustrate my point. To get the doses needed for medicinal levels, most of the time, you're going to have to take far more than can be easily gained by herbs supplements. If you do, you also run the risk of taking in large amounts of other chemicals in the herbs, of interactions with other chemicals/medicines, etc.
@imrational I was attempting to point out that if foxglove (your example) has to be taken in such large doses that its other components would be harmful, then why take it in the first place? Look for another herb or natural therapy. So I didn't really prove your point.
@imrational The primary reason drugs exist is that they can be patented and hence bring profits – THAT is the bottom line. Herbs cannot be patented; and that is the primary reason for isolating the components from the herbs – not because all the other components in the herb are necessarily harmful, but to make drugs.
Herbs come from nature, are holistic, and their components act synergistically for the benefit of mankind. Drugs are man-made and they benefit those who patent them.
@imrational Components in herbs act synergistically, for example, ginger contains approximately 700 components, isolating them to include only those deemed beneficial for treating certain symptoms, as the drugs companies routinely do to create their patented drugs, thinking they could outdo what nature has provided us, only creates a drug with side-effects and frequently very serious ones. Ginger, which is a food, has virtually no side effects. OK????? Your intrepretatoin is IRrational!
The point you seem to be missing is that the active ingredients may have a positive effect, but only when taken in large doses. Ginger has "virtually no side-effects" but do you eat enough to get positive effect? If you did eat enough, could some of the other 699 components have a negative effect?
Again, just because something occurs in nature does not make it beneficial to humans. Some chemicals can be beneficial drugs, but dosage is important.
@imrational The Periodic Table of Elements lists 110 known elements including; gases, solids, liquids, and “synthetics.” 20 out of the 110 known elements listed are man-made or synthetic. Reflective of man’s ability to create a “superior” element is the fact that ALL TWENTY man-made synthetic elements are either a contamination hazard, radioactive, or both!
Of course, the fact that we evolved in environments without those man-made molecules/elements plays a part. Right now, there are fungi that have evolved to absorb radiation at Chernobyl and "eat it". Would those fungi regard those materials to be hazardous today?
@imrational Of course I didn't imply that poison Ivy, arsenic, etc. act synergistically...... you are putting words into my mouth. Yet they are beneficial when used in homeopathic form! Why do you need to clutter the argument by introducing extraneous BS, & thereby make it even more difficult to respond appropriately within the less than 500 words allotted.
@pkkda Dont waste your time, this guy is probably bought for and paid off by the atheist league or some special interest bullshit. I mean where does he get off telling people that herbs in general are bad. Herbs have alkaloids that are mostly inactive and do not intefere within themselves, thats why theres a lot of herbal spectrum supplements, have you seen spectrum allopathic drugs? a tamiflu-excedrin-viagra-ibuprofen-aspirin concoction? no because they only treat the symptoms, not the cause
Where did I say that herbals "are bad". They definitely can help make a bland dish taste much better. I gave specific reasons why a person should be leery of herbal MEDICATIONS.
As to your "alkaloids... do not interfere with themselves", you're quoting new-age bullshit that makes little sense in reality. Do you understand what you are even saying? The science of chemistry applies to herbs as well as big pharma meds.
"probably bought for & paid off by"... I wish the application of logic and rational thinking got me cash so easily.
Instead, we've tons of examples of people making quack statements supporting the sale of snake-oil products... comments later parroted by well-intentioned but ignorant people like yourself. Did you ever think that the people who made those initial comments about "alkaloids" or how "natural is good and acts synergistically" did so because it helped their bottom line?
I am not introducing extraneous BS. I'm showing examples of how you are wrong in your thinking. What is the difference between ginger (natural herb) and poison ivy (another natural herb). Why is one beneficial and the other hazardous if natural is good?
My point is that natural can be good, bad, or both.
@imrational In the context of my discourse it should have been clear that I meant medicinal herbs, not poisonous ones - therefore you ARE introducing BS. And what I was saying, & you misinterpreted, is, for example one of the components in the herb may help the disease by 2%, and another of its components may help 5%, but when combined they help 20% - that's synergy. Nature combines the components in the proper quantity so that there are not all the side effects that accompany pharmaceuticals.
Why are medicinal herbs 100% good? Answer, they are not necessarily so. THAT WAS MY POINT.
Please explain to me, WHY would natural herbs have synergistic effects? WHAT makes a medicinal herb 100% healthy while poisonous herbs are bad? Why wouldn't an herb have good and bad chemical ingredients?
@imrational From you video and your responses to comments on this post, it is obvious that you never studied herbalism to the degree necessary to have a meaningful discourse involving same. And that explains why, with each response, you further convolve the matter - you are not rational by any stretch of the imagination. This is my farewell - I will leave it to those who read these comments to decide for themselves. You may be in the medical field, but probably only an orderly.
Calling me "not rational" means nothing if you can't back up your statement. You have yet to address the points in this video. I'm a registered nurse, not an orderly... but regardless of my profession, I could be an orderly or a janitor, my points still stand.
It is your stance on herbs which are irrational. You say I convolute the issue, when in fact, I am merely pointing out the flaws in your rationale.
@imrational Lol poison Ivy is natural, arsenic is natural, ergo nature is bad, and doctors are angellic saints. I agree that not all, in fact, most of the plants have no medicinal value or benefit, but to go against a multibillion dollar industry just to make a dumb point? Humans are not stupid. If medicine A doesn't help them or is of no benefit, we stop taking it, the reason its so successful, is because it works. Atheism has fried your logical circuits.
HeadOn, the topical headache medication you "apply directly to the forehead" disproves your point. Marketing can be effective and people will take things that only work via the placebo effect.
Also, please track back in the comments. I was responding to the comment, "herbs come from nature, are holistic, and their components act synergistically for the benefit of mankind". I would say that my response was very logically and factually correct.
How am I being biased? I notice you choose to insult rather than actually responding to my points given in the video.
I acknowledge that big pharma has issues of their own, but this video doesn't address Big Pharma. It addresses the multi-million dollar industry of herbal medicines.
@imrational Perhaps I could have characterized you more accurately. But the fact that you have a lot to say about the negative effects of echinacea, i.e., “alternative therapy”, and neglect to at least mention that “mainstream treatments” such as Advil, Tylenol, etc., have even bigger problems, implies that you are biased. Ignorant people who watch your video will not have the whole picture, and will tend to stay away from alternative treatments based on your video.
Mainstream treatments have problems, but are they "even bigger ones" than the ones faced by herbals? I think not. At least the mainstream ones have been proven to be effective.
@imrational In fact an alarming portion of the mainstream drugs have been removed form the market because they have been proven ineffective or have severe side effects (including death). That says something of the FDA approval process – severely flawed. The FDA & big Pharma's have the power, & their objective is to ban vitamin supplements & herbs, insofar as possible, but unfortunate for them there are not any valid reasons to do that.
@imrational Come on!!! Mainstream drugs & treatments DO have far bigger problems than with herbals. Just look at the side effects (provided by you pharmacist) caused by drugs & compare it to herbals. If herbals had as many side effects & problems, the FDA would would have sufficient evidence to ban them; it's because they have no such evidence, that they are still available! The FDA would love to use even the most far fetched excuse to ban herbs.
I gave specific reasons why I was against herbals. You have yet to respond to those reasons.
This video does not address big pharma or tested medications because those would require different cautions than herbals.
Before calling me biased and trying to put words in my mouth, please respond to the reasons/rationale I gave in this video. Correct me in my errors, unless of course, I am right.
@imrational You say that herbal sales were $4.3 billion. That sounds staggering; but in all fairness, you did not mention how that compares to pharmaceutical sales - very one-sided. None the less, it does go to show that there is a justified trend of people seeking alternatives because of the largely flawed “mainstream” medical system.
Again, you want to argue against big pharma. That's a different topic entirely. Two wrongs don't make a right. I'm arguing against herbal medications and giving specific reasons why. As it stands, herbals are a big industry in their own right. Why are they exempt from greed and predatory business practices? Answer = they're not.
Just because the mainstream medical system is flawed, does that justify the use of ineffectual products? If you have appendicitis but can't afford the surgery, does going to a "psychic" surgeon who charges you less fix your problems? No.
@imrational I'm not putting words into your mouth, rather it is the words coming form your mouth that show your bias. My initial assertion that you are biased keeps getting reinforced by your own words – you have already unequivocally proved that you are not only partial in favor of the pharmaceutical drugs but strongly against alternative therapies/supplements.
again, you call me biased but refuse to address my points with any kind of decent rebuttal.
It's like a person who is caught murdering someone else, but then cries out, "why arrest me?!? There are many other murders that are never solved! You're picking on me but singling me out!"
Many big pharma drugs ARE effective in treating and/or curing medical conditions. They have been heavily tested, we know their interactions, their safe and effective dose ranges, etc.
@imrational I'm in agreement with you that physicians are, for the most part, well-intentioned toward the well being of their patients; however they are constrained in what treatments they can administer since they are controlled by the medical cabal who are profit motivated. That cabal are lobbyists for their own interests without regard to the victims that they affect. What is taught in medical schools is also tailored & controlled by this same cabal.
@imrational You give some examples of how herbs interfere with other drugs. Big deal. Drugs also interfere with other drugs, and that is why you need to check for interactions before taking them. The way you present is very one-sided, as if it is only peculiar to herbs. In fact herbs have far less interactions than drugs do.
Reading the comments further down, I learn that you, imrational, are not a doctor. I am sorry that I called you one. My only hope is that you know what you are talking about as your comments are not very rational or scientific nor is the tone of your comments very civil.
Please point out to me how my comments are not rational or scientific. As to the tone of my comments, I try very hard to be civil and I think if you look back at the comments, you'll see that I am much more polite than the people calling me "biased", "not very rationale", "an idiot". etc.
Again, please address my points and please explain how I am not being scientific or rational.
CONTD 1: We hear almost every month about the withdrawl of one medicine or the other with hundreds of millions of dollars fines attached. Your 'modern' medicines suddenly smell of snake oil. I You do not seem to apologize for that. BTW, taking M&Ms for cold is a sure way to get fat and unhealthy because of the sugar- or do you not know of insulin problems? You are a doctor which used to mean teacher. Students necessarily know less than you. So teach, not call names.
Why do I need to apologize for modern medicines in this video? This video was not addressing them. I was addressing the "hype" of herbal medicines which are unjustified. Just because something is "natural" does not make it healthy.
As to my comments not being rational, scientific, or civil... you didn't read very far. Please point out those instances where I wasn't provoked by the poster insulting me first. Please point out where I am not being rational or scientific.
Perhaps the title should have been What's wrong with ecchinecea medicine? Seriously, to take one example and lump ALL herbs into the pot is way beyond unscientific. You have a problem with Echinecea and you have proof? Fine. But EVERY herb? Come on doctor! Your polemics almost beg the question about who your funder is. You ignore that 25% of the modern medicines are either derived from plants or were first discovered from plant molecules. CONTD..1
My points still stand, whether or not I'm a doctor.
So what if a large percentage of modern medicines came from plants? We're still dealing with other ingredients, inability to control quality/quantity/efficacy, medication interactions, etc.
Also, my points still apply to pretty much any and all herbals. Address my arguments please.
Your post is about echinecea. Fine. Echineacea, according to you has been proven ineffective. First, there are many researchers who seriously doubt this conclusion, so please hold your fire. Second, stay with echinecea as I said. Many, many herbs work and are very effective. A recent example is turmeric prevents cancer. There is not enough space to address them all, Modern medicine causes more dangerous side effects than they cure, take statins for example. CONT'D1
You are wrong. Biologists have made great strides in the areas of standardization to address quality, quantity and efficacy. Modern medicines pollute. When you drink water today, you are also drinking statins, SRI drugs and many others because nature cannot deal with these molecules. Herbs have no such problem. Can herbs solve every problem? No. But they do solve many.
Then again, stay with echinecea, do not generalize. Do not dig up discarded practices as biology advances daily (asparagus).
1. This video was about herbals, not Big Pharma. Just because Big Pharma has faults doesn't mean herbals therefore get a clean bill of health.
2. We still have poaching of plants & animals based on misguided notions, herbalists dispensing herbs and advice based on bad principles, Quality and quantity still suffer. Did you read about how a homeopathic nasal spray with zinc resulted in people permanently losing their sense of smell?
3. in your argument about "nature cannot deal with these molecules". We're talking about a vast amount of these chemicals. Nature (and our treatment plants) can't handle the VOLUME, but they would break down if given time. Example, If you dumped enough poison ivy in a city's water supply, it would still end up contaminated with Urushiol (poison ivy's active ingredient).
The volume of these ingredients are high (in many cases) cause that dose is needed for efficacy
ok, ive seen your type, you just like being so ridiculous to get attention, and make a bunch of people unnecessarily upset just so you can feel good about yourself
wow, with everything to focus on in this world, this is embaressing!
you try and attack me on how i can about arguing against you, that pathetic natural medicine is governed by the laws of the planet and universe you dumb fuck.. Honestly no one likes you and please delete this video before i flag it.
What would you flag the video over? Dude, instead of resorting to unethical methods to try and shut up people critical of your views, how about you actually engage in a conversation with them and debate with them? Perhaps you will change their mind or maybe even you might learn something and change yours.
Also, how do you know what the "laws of the planet and universe" ARE? Where did you get that knowledge?
@imrational im studying as a civil engineer and i've explored alot of different studies, im done here you are pathetically annoying and im not going to waste my time on some retard stubborn idiot's youtube video.
Glad to hear that you're not going to waste your time any further. I wasn't striving to reach the pathetic level of annoying, but it's nice to know I made it anyway. Have a good life.
Finally: Big Pharma. You're a hypocrite. Whatever that number was that you threw out there against Alternative Health marketing is pennies in comparison to the 30% of the US Economy being dedicated to orthodox modalities in healthcare. Now Pharma's marketing being the satanic majesty that it is has this very same, poorly educated public choosing congestive heart failure over high blood pressure, or kidney failure or liver failure. How is this superior?
You're putting words in my mouth and that is dishonest. I never said that Big Pharma is perfect. I was saying, in this video, to beware herbals and listed reasons why not.
@imrational: I'm saying that claiming Alternative Medicine can even hope to compete on a marketing budget of Big Pharma's scale doesn't flaw the industry, simply you. Consider also the sources for the money. Private pockets. Not subsidized, not insurable.
But, I agree, we'll leave Big Pharma to another time.
The lack of a guarantee in what you're getting: more than just the active constituent. You said so yourself that there are thousands of chemicals in any given plant. Now how come just one of those chemicals could be deemed beneficial/harmful and not at all be effect by the compounds coexisting within the organism? Now how can science hope to laud one aspect (for instance, WBC Basophil) and not the other functions aiding it (or the rest of the white blood cells, anatomy analogy)?
I'm not sure I'm understanding your argument here. We know that some active ingredients can be beneficial at certain doses and harmful or non-beneficial at other dosages. We know that some other active ingredients are harmful at all levels, etc.
When you take a prescription drug, the unknown ingredients are minimized and the beneficial ingredients are dosed to provide beneficial effects.
-Chemicals and Functions evolve in a plant's entirety, some direct, others to be buffers. When the botanical is whole (or cured, TCM) the side-effects are far less. See: Apples w/pectin and methanol. Again, these are chemicals that aid in the plants metabolic functions for survival.
-Isolated Constituents can have a beneficial often drastic effect. A system is put into shock through the influx of dosing and compliance can be inconsistent at best.
a plant could evolve a chemical beneficial to itself and also, coincidentally, be beneficial to us, but that doesn't mean that all the chemicals in the plant are needed or beneficial for us.
Example, let's say toxicodendron radicans is found to have a beneficial chemical that helps cancer patients. That doesn't mean that all of its chemicals are beneficial and can actually be harmful to humans and this can be shown because toxicodendron radicans is also known as poison ivy.
@imrational: In biological terms that any number of compounds within a plant may or may not be "beneficial" to the person consuming them--but, if the compounds worked together within, presumably, they work outside of those confines. The evolutionary course of the plant dictates this breed of synergy. As of this day, Science cannot quantify the types/names of the chemicals to be found, let alone associate function.
@skorchedutopia: Phytochemistry is hopelessly complex. What we do know about Phytochemistry is largely derived from the metabolic processes of catalysts and converters within. I call it selective and ignorant to prize one chemical over the various attachments to and not once considering anything that may also assist.
Isolated therapeutics like lovastatin cause liver and kidney damage. By apply monacolin K in its entirety (Red Yeast Rice), the patient avoids paralleled side-effects.
@skorchedutopia: In short, yes, the consumer cannot be entirely sure of what they are getting in a dose. This can be the fault of a variety of reasons (bad farming practices, bad manufacturing)--HOWEVER--standardizing extracts into international units and trusting in the very synergy that helped the botanical thrive is not a "downside" to herbal application. Any chemical that can be harmful (solitary) can be counter-acted within, or formulated to over-ride any negative balances.
@imrational: It's the theory in formulations. It's why you can't buy Comfrey (Symphytum officinale) from a commercial source (tincture, capsule, etc) for internal use due to PAs (pyrro-something alkaloids). However, there's a version of Comfrey called 'Comfree' that has a formulation from three other plants (made by Solaray) that effectually do the same thing. Now this is a modern example for something that's been done, traditionally, in both the east and the west.
@imrational: It is the paradox therein. It's not illogical. But in its current state, the examples of infantile until we've learned much, much more. See James Duke and the phytochemistry database for more information.
We are learning. Botany and Herbalism are tied at the hip and by way of age-old therapuetics and the clinical herbalist does the dance. You cannot blame the practitioners for the public that believes every advertising claim.
Herbalism has a bad track record for truth. Studies on a lot of the herbal medications previously prescribed have proven ineffective (University studies & not big Pharma studies either).
Remember how asparagus was listed as a cure for impotence because it grew as a long straight shaft? Not exactly good science there, eh? It was a failed hypothesis that was maintained for how many decades/centuries?
@imrational: A month later and this is the argument you resurrect? Please. Thousands of years of treatment do not pale in comparison to fifty-to-seventy years of reductionist doctrine. And by the way, claims of asparagus being used for erectile dysfunction are farce. For Incontinence, maybe, but not impotence--Eclectic-Era Medicine (Late 1700s) dealt with Asparagus in suspicion because of the off-odored results in urine and thereby, suggested the Kidney's poor response to it.
@imrational: Phytochemistry is hopelessly complex. But you're comparing what is 'sea water' to the average American to the science of Marine Biology and what all goes into that soup. On the cellular/particulate level, you're scrutinizing what is 'Echinacea', bad advertising and ignorance to what is actually there. The alternative is to value the whole over the parts because if this is what has evolved, my God, something must've gone right. And maybe, "we" weren't the first to verify this.
@imrational: I'm saying that we cannot hope to know every chemical constituent and its actions in this lifetime. It will not happen. Yet, there are many lifetimes that have evolved medicine and that reductionist science has a couple of thousands of years to catch up. What year was the telescope invented? Being educated about this subject matter requires a willingness to piece together hundreds of concepts and debunk as you go.
Societally, as the phytochemicals are analyzed and the plant is mapped, things will fit just as modern evolution slides into the theory of Natural Selection. We have a basis, we move forward. This applies to everything. This is what makes up modern medicine.
Not lobbies and cornered markets with a crop of hopelessly sick folks and those with just enough insatiable curiosity to validate the principles taught.
Every other point you've posed is only applicable to misinformed public that's largely ignorant to the most basic bodily processes from respiration to metabolism. Placebo effect? Absolutely. It's still an effect. Now the drop in WBC counts happened after 24-hours. Prior to an inundation of whatever pathogen, there is an incubation period. The counts went up by 4k, then every 24-hour period thereafter, dropped by 2k. Now you're going to say that 4k additional in the ranks isn't effective?
the Placebo effect is an effect, but to say that herbals are good because of that makes no sense at all. People could have a beneficial placebo effect from poison, but that doesn't mean that the poison was really good for them!
@imrational: We get into discussions of snake handlers and daughter-rapers down the power-of-faith road. I loathe going there. I did have two points with this statement, however:
-"Placebo Effects" vary. If the patient doesn't believe in the treatment, the chances of that treatment failing are greatly increased. Others are delusional.
-WBC rising then falling: in Herbalism terms, Echinacea is an Immunostimulant. Not for the long-term, not for acute conditions.
#1 - Malformed White Blood cells? Perhaps this is in a reference on your video comments, but I'm in possession of a fairly broad botanical library and not even the "safest" and most prudent Western applicants have referred to Echinacae causing malformations. Can you source that study?
I just so happen to be a fully certified Naturopath and I work with quite a few different M.D.'s. Each one will tell you that herbal remedies can be quite effective if utilyzed properly and under the supervision of a professional such as a Master Herbalist or Holistic Health Practitioner each of which with the proper certifications. You need to do your research and don't believe everything you read. By the way ALL PHARMACUETICALS are made from natural substaces such as Garlic and Echinacea.
The blurb here isn't even accurate anyway. Echinacea does stimulate the immune system, and it seems to have ingredients that allieviate respiratory tract problems. Why else would it be used by healers and shamans, if it didn't work? They don't have fake legal systems and companies and adverts to hide their fails or lies behind, they can't 'afford' to be wrong.
So eg - Native Americans knew what plants to use for food but not medicine?! No cause they knew about both.
You need to do some research. Many herbals prove to not work as healers claim. Heck, some herbal preps have been revealed to include secretly crushed up prescription meds because the herbals weren't doing squat.
@imrational - no, you need to do some research and you also need to quit trying to make it seem like anyone who impartially looked into anything would claim something like 'oh some people faked this, so that automatically puts the whole lot under suspicion' - as if you can ignore the fact that it's worked around the entire fucking planet for thousands of years.
btw if anyone isn't aware, I wa refering to things like premarin re. the horse piss - there are drugs that are prescribed for menopausal related issues that use animal hormones.
Which only occur because of modern diets being full of toxins, including the un-natural energies caused by intensive and factory-farming, and things like cosmetics and other poisons. Like childbirth, it isn't painful or unpleasant when it's done naturally.
@imrational - No scumfuck pedo-cult useless-eater knows-its-a-lying demonic faggot - the Bible mentioning child-birth being painful is only because the human females were impregnated by the Annunaki or Fallen Angels - "the sons of gods who went with the daughters of men" - that is why cesarian births happen, their genes make children who are too physically large to get through a human females cervix.
1. female hormones derived from horse piss - which you may be prescribed off a doctor
2. horse piss itself as some sort of cure
- just throwing that one in, first cause of the animal abuse involved in harvesting it - when it's not needed for those hormones to be available (they occur in plants), second cause there's as many mineral and animal derived active ingredients used in pharms too. Yes! mineral - like oh in crystals and gemstones.
As if this needs to be pointed out, since it's so fucking obvious -
herbal and related forms of medicine are what got people to where they were a few hundred years back, when they first started (in this continent in this epoch) to investigate 'active ingredients' and then last isloate them and-or make synthetic versions of them. It's in those recent times that tech 'progress' has masked the damage done to biology and ecosystems and therefore health in general. Genocide of the natural.
Total lies by the usual satanic scumfuck conspiracy of pedo's. Herbal medicine works fine, and has been used around the entire planet for way longer and successfully so, than the modern version of it - all modern drugs are, are an artificial version of herbal medicine, with toxins added to them. That's all they are, those pills etc you get off the pharmacy.
Herbal Medicine is great, but u need experts or knowledgable people to administer it. Great Pharmaceutical Companies discredit their use, bcos herbals are cheap and easy to use, and all these big companies spend so much money they want it back doubled. So they talk evil of herbal medicine and discourage its use. But nature gives us food and also gives us medicine. If nature can feed us, which is a great feat, it can also heal us. Unfortunately modern science is disqualifying herbal medicine.
Watch my video again. Even if an herbal has a beneficial active ingredient, you can't control dosage, it likely has other active ingredients which could be harmful, etc.
It's not a Big Pharma conspiracy. It's basic chemistry.
@imrational - you're a tool of the worst evilest scumfucks imaginable, and all of your kind will be destroyed in every way possible. You know you are a liar, you have no excuses, you know that herbals are safe and have been proven so over thousands of years, you know that pharms have toxic ingredients added to them which have nothing at all to do with their medical properties.
You're nothing but the same scum that burned witches, to eradicate truth and knowledge.
Natural remedies work. God made grass so cows can eat it, and we get milk from the cows. That's how nature works. Everything that exist has a purpose, God made echinacea, uva ursi, propolis, for a reason.
Conventional medicine doesn't work and it's so much more expensive. All it does is supress symptoms.
All of the pharmaceutical companies are in on it, they will never reveal cures. They care about profits.
@GhostGrind You said "maybe the devil created illnesses and diseases" so the devils creation is better than gods so the devil is more powerful than god
Or god simply doesn't care
Or neither of them exist which is the most likely and has a s*** load of evidence behind it
If you take my word for anything or imrationals' word for anything you are going to make an asumption, come to a conclusion, close your mind and then "YOU" lose as do all who know you. Find it out for yourself, read , research, look at both sides and educate yourself so that you can make an educated decision based on what makes sense of "your" findings, not someones motives, opinions, or their lack of information. Good Luck... Remember, what you put into you makes you and who you are...
Scientific studies by whom? who own interest in them? The plant is ineffective but can effect you in bad ways...common. You might not get what you pay for? What about in your face side effects "may cause death"? People live longer in our society. error. Our eldest living use herbs and food as medicine being the common factor. Yes I think the Pharm Ind keep people sick. Free market... you can only get rich once curing but filthy rich keeping the sick. Drs in consiracy LOL
@trc757s You only know what your taught, teachers what they're taught. Educations a manipulating factor in all countries based on time and events. What type of echinacea was used? where harvested? how old? what parts used? what pplication used and used for? You are proof positive of mass ignorance. A Master debater NOT. Just because I said should satisfy you since just because they said you beleive. Dont take my word, you find it or you become the next moronic generation capable of anything
@trc757s Oh and by the way I say take echinacea if you know how and when it is apropriate. Example "I" have witnessed echinacea used with golden seal in raw form packed in capsules to treat one of the worst abcessed tooth (tunneling toward the eye). And by the way first response was "get to a hospitol"! there is a need for ER" the person was not willing, less than 36hours abcess was not visible in mouth or in face, pain gone, fever gone. 3 yrs later still doing great. Botanicals do work.
One anecdotal case study does not make a truth. Perhaps your friend spontaneously recovered and the echinacea/golden seal was not even a factor. Perhaps it was something else he/she ate or drank?
Botanicals COULD work... but again, you need to evaluate efficacy, side effects, dosage, etc.
@imrational Silly man the reason so many look to botanicals are due to the pharms side effects and efficacy. Dose your theory apply to pharms dont do a thing but harm, if the patient gets better it was something else they did, ate, or drank ? You don't even know what your debating which shows how irrational you are. Educate yourself first so you can add something other than what you've learned to parrot from others in your field whom have learned to parrot from others in their field LOL.
Maybe, but please think before insulting. Please answer why botanicals have fewer side effects and are more effective. This goes against logic.
Yes, if people get better from an illness, there could be many different reasons why. You seriously need to read up on how scientific experiments are run.
running scientific experiments are not as hard as you seem to think. Local professors might be able to help you design some simple studies if you don't trust some of the ones out there. Heck, you can replicate some other ones too!
I notice that you seem to be "moving the goalposts" now though. So, it's not a question of echinacea being effective, it has to be grown in a specific region and only specific parts can be used, etc.
@imrational Silly man Scientific studies cost a lot of money, and if there's a lack of interest there are also a lack of funding. Botanicals however do have thousands of years of private studies very personal infact. Yet the FDA have changed all the rules, reclassified illnessed or symptoms of side effects of pharms to disease and made law that these herbs cannot treat them??? Common now this is wrong in any sense, in fact you can have a gross lack of common sense and see that one.
@imrational Also I am not "moving the goalposts" You failed here too I did not imply it being grown in a specific region, etc. these are necessary questions that should be taken into consideration as to how and why or why not something works. On simpler terms lets say you get gas down the road most of the time but some of the time you get gas in 5 other stations. Sometimes your having trouble with your car sputtering and not running right.
@trc757s you take it to a mechanic, it might be a mystery or not. Its based on the education and skill of the mechanic. Now if all possibilities are taken in they might find one of those stations had a rusty tank it rained infiltrated, stirred it in and you had water in your gas now. But "you" get gas there often just always mist the rain before. Many factors go into botanicals. Your "regions" might be in different soil types like a "Moco Rock outcropping" as apossed to a "Clarksville"
@trc757s There are a lot of variance in 30 feet even. Parts of the plant common this shows even more ignorance. Sometimes the root has stronger concentrations than the upper. A Water variable? take a pepper, plant two jalapenos, Water one every day, just keep the other from dying. The pepper with less water will be the same as the other in looks and size just terribly HOT. Thats a botanical variable and there are too many others to type here.
Sorry it took awhile to respond. I mentioned the inability for herbals to produce reliable dosage and quality in my video. If you are acknowledging that we cannot accurately dose herbals then I guess we're in agreement.
@imrational I think it's not a matter of whether you think it's logical, but a matter of whether it works for you. If it doesn't work for you, then don't resort to herbal medicine.
It is a terrible thing to lose sight of what once would have been second nature to your ancestors...YES YOUR ANCESTORS MR! I mean how do you think they coped without doctors etc. How do you think tribes survive an stay healthy? There have been many studies on tribes and how they eat/medicate maybe you want to look at DR WESTON PRICE'S work. thats a prime exmaple of what I'm talking about. YOU SIR KNOW NOTHING!
I think it is amazing at the things our ancestors achieved. That said, why do you think that primitive tribes had/have such a shorter lifespan than those in the developing world?
I dont think thats herbal medicines have anything to do with life span, I think it was all part of evolution that man has come to live longer. I mean tribes do not have healthcare yet they live to be very old people!
I think you should check your data a little more closely. Indigenous tribes without modern medicine usually do not have extended lifespans.
I recommend you rent that last DVD version of "The Gods Must Be Crazy" and watch the documentary in the extra content part of the DVD. The filmmakers go back to the tribe in the movie several times and witness the changes.
They have the natives talk about how it is so much better to have modern medicine and more reliable food supplies.
Alot of folks out there believe herbs don't work. OH ok, if thats true then why is it that pharmacuetical companies make SYNTHETIC versions of plant chemicals to make drugs...why is that 50% of todays drugs originated from plants...and still do...take TAMIFLU for instance this is a drug for swine flu...it is infact made from;...wait for it...STAR ANISE!!! The little spice shaped like a star, the seed of which is used in flavouring of aniseed balls...get it ANISE SEED ANISEED...no?? anyone??
It's a shame that those who are trying to understand more about herbal medicine have to encounter people like you. The prejudiced type, who's under the impression of self formed opinions yet is only spewing out well fed garbage. One who types in herbal medicine strikes you video third off the rank, its an atrocity and bet you love being "that guy"
It's a shame you wish to attack my character instead of addressing my arguments. However, your methods speak volumes and might explain why my video ranks third among herbal videos.
I like how you mentioned the "alternative" of food perhaps being a cause of prevention, that's a very "complementary" thing to say. Considering doctors know next to nothing about nutrition, don't stress it's importance yet 'feed' out handfuls of pills says enough. You're a walking contradiction harboring much prejudice, arrogance and ignorance... the personality of a slender rice flower. Eat your M&M's all you want but comes a time... there comes a time indeed!
I'm not as much a contradiction as you seem to imply (IMHO). Food/herbals CAN affect one's health (in beneficial or hazardous ways). This video points out reasons why people should be careful with herbals. I've noticed that people criticizing my video and I seem to ignore the actual points I made most of the time.
@imrational isolating the active constituents is a safer means? This is incorrect! take ephedra for example.. your pharmaceuticals will isolate nor-ephedrine (pseudo-ephedrine) yet this has proved detrimental side effects esp. Whilst having ephedra in it's holistic state, which involves both chemical compounds ephedrine and nor-ephedrine, works in perfect synergy which together have no toxic effect. It's when you isolate the compound it becomes toxic.
Really? So you're saying that ephedrine and nor-ephedrine when combined have no side-effects? Why don't the drug companies market a drug with both then?
Can you point to the scientific study that shows that?
Isolation doesn't create toxicity. The fact that there are plants that are poisonous shows that natural plants have toxic substances themselves.
@imrational Keep in mind that drug companies cannot patent plants in their whole form, so why would they research something they cannot make money from? Face it, sick people are big business.
Sick people ARE big business... which is why the unregulated herbal industry rakes in large amounts of cash. Why do you think that pharm companies have an incentive to be greedy but not herbal companies?
"Keep in mind that drug companies cannot patent plants in their whole form, so why would they research something they cannot make money from?"
You mentioned yourself that pharmaceutical companies derive their drugs from plants a lot of the time. THAT is a reason for them to research plants. As I mentioned in my video, they still need to identify the chemicals that work, note side effects, dose, etc.
@imrational And I'd really like to see this "evidence based practice" of m&m vs echinacea "point" you've raised!? Where are most pharmaceuticals derived from?.. Plants! precious and beautiful until placed in the hands of a business man!!
2005, New England Journal of Medicine. It was a tightly controlled study that included 437 people. Read about how the study was conducted and compare that to some of the shoddy ones done that later showed a beneficial effect.
Dear Mr. ummm I am IR-imrational......Echinacea is not a drug. Some of us do not want to take drugs....any herb or medication for that matter should be used when needed and not otherwise. I could say a lot of stuff here but I'll just say you obviously don't know anything about Natural healing....can't see the importance of taking OUR health and personal power back into our own hands.....and pretty much just sound like a fool in my book. Bless your little pointed head...... )O(
Echinacea is made of chemicals and is used to affect the body (supposedly "boost your immune system"). That meets the definition of drug.
I am a nurse and have studied alternative medicine. Maybe in your view of reality I am a fool, but I believe in evidence-based practice. Show me the theory for how something works and the supporting evidence.
I pointed out some of the flaws with herbal medicines. I notice you decided to attack my appearance & not my points. Telling.
If you truly are an honest medical professional, congratulations--you are in a disappearing group. I respectfully disagree with many of the points in your video, being from a family consisting almost exclusively of nurses, pharmacists and nurse's aids. My mother is no longer a nurse's aid because of moral objections to the mind set of the hospitals she worked in. Many of my relatives are not able to tell me everything involved, but the general consensus is that pharmaceuticals are VERY, very bad
Is it because pharmaceutical companies have a profit motive? If that's the case, then why are herbals good? The herbal and homeopathic industries have profit motives too... sometimes far stronger than pharmaceutical ones because they are less regulated and can make claims that drug companies can't.
@imrational Yes, anyone in any industry has profit driven motives, because as you stated, it's a free market. I myself am not a doctor, but I know that what the doctors and nurses tell their own families in the privacy of their homes only has the motive of love and concern behind it. I'm glad what you do works for you, and what I do works for me. My body is just much more responsive to more natural alternatives.
@imrational I have no clue, because I'm not an f**king doctor!!! I think it may have something to do with my sulfate allergy. This conversation is getting to long, lol.
Larch Tree Extract itself has been scientifically proven to be 3 TIMES MORE POTENT than Echinacea and has been used by native people for hundreds of years to treat infections and fight cold symptoms.
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rambaudjeanluc 1 month ago
i have studied herbal medicine for years now. Not all herbal supplements are as ineffective as echinacea. Gensing is considered an herbal supplement and it is very effective for increasing focus, mint leaves are an effective laxative, and Aloe vera is used by practically everyone for burns or rashes.
Shangrily 4 months ago
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metheman2k 10 hours ago
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@Shangrily If you have studied this for years, then you would understand that echinacea has in fact been shown to be efficacious in regards to its immune stimulating and moudlatory properties. You would understand that there are 3 common species of the Ech Spp., 2 of which posess significant immunomodulatory effects when used together. The 3rd, when used by itself, does not.
metheman2k 9 hours ago
Thanks for the info man. I am not sure why you named the video "What's wrong with herbal medicine?" Do you think all herbal medicine is worthless? Also, what are your solutions then? Thanks in advance.
SDTricker 5 months ago
@SDTricker
Herbals are not "worthless" at all. Aspirin, Digitalis and other drugs came from herbs. I'm more about wanting people to think skeptically and realize that there are dangers in alternative medicine. Natural does not automatically equal safe.
imrational 5 months ago
I hardly know where to begin with a strident preacher such as yourself. So arrogant, so self-righteous. I will say this, though: I have just as much scepticism regarding the alternative health industry as I do towards the AMA-based industry. That is to say, I don't take anything either one says on faith, but I don't automatically dismiss them either. I do my own research, to the extent that I can, and have, thank God, managed to avoid both for the most part.
briteness 6 months ago
@briteness
How am I being arrogant? How am I being self-righteous?
I think I am being rational and logical about my stances. Please point out the flaws in my reasoning.
imrational 6 months ago
An estimated 106,000 hospitalized patients die each year from drugs which, by medical standards, are properly prescribed and properly administered. More than two million suffer serious side effects. Reference: Lazarou J, Pomeranz BH, Corey PN: "Incidence of adverse drug reactions in hospitalized patients." JAMA 1998;279:1200. This is only for hospitalized patients, how about the ones not in the hospital? If the statistics were as bad for herbs, they would be outlawed!!!!
pkkda 8 months ago 3
@pkkda
You don't address the point that at least mainstream medications are effective. The vast majority of herbs are only as good as the placebo effect. If the herbs actually worked, then more of them would be mainstream medicine.
A reason why there are side effects with mainstream meds is that for a chemical to be effective there is an effective dose, a subclinical (ineffectual dose) and toxic dose. Sometimes there is a fine line. Also, there are side effects. Herbs would also have these
imrational 8 months ago
@imrational Correct - there is a fine line between the toxic & effective dose in mainstream medicine, but in the case of herbs & supplements (vitamins, minerals, etc.) there is generally much more tolerance between the harmful & effective dose & hence far less chance of harm to the patient. Yes “mainstream medicine” is very effective - it has very potent side effects, which are generally not the case for natural substances (except for arsenic, etc.).
pkkda 8 months ago
@pkkda
A natural herbs "beneficial" chemicals are not suddenly made benign by being in a plant. If you took the amount of foxglove needed to reach a beneficial dose of the glycoside Digoxin, you would be poisoned by several of the other "natural" chemicals found in the plant.
imrational 8 months ago
@imrational You always give extreme, atypical examples in attempting to discredit. Exceptions could be found for everything, I was talking about the typical case – I think it should have been understood without having to point it out. Freshly picked McIntosh apples contains 4 mg vit C/100 grams. I take 10 grams vitamin C per day; at that dosage, I would have to eat 551 lbs of apples. Doesn't seem like a prudent way to get vit C, does it? Same applies to foxglove.
pkkda 8 months ago
@pkkda
Thanks for helping illustrate my point. To get the doses needed for medicinal levels, most of the time, you're going to have to take far more than can be easily gained by herbs supplements. If you do, you also run the risk of taking in large amounts of other chemicals in the herbs, of interactions with other chemicals/medicines, etc.
imrational 8 months ago
@imrational I was attempting to point out that if foxglove (your example) has to be taken in such large doses that its other components would be harmful, then why take it in the first place? Look for another herb or natural therapy. So I didn't really prove your point.
pkkda 8 months ago
@imrational The primary reason drugs exist is that they can be patented and hence bring profits – THAT is the bottom line. Herbs cannot be patented; and that is the primary reason for isolating the components from the herbs – not because all the other components in the herb are necessarily harmful, but to make drugs.
pkkda 8 months ago
Is this an argument against echinacea or herbs in general? lol you sound like you got burned by echinacea
scientheism 9 months ago
Herbs come from nature, are holistic, and their components act synergistically for the benefit of mankind. Drugs are man-made and they benefit those who patent them.
pkkda 9 months ago
@pkkda
Components act synergistically for the benefit of mankind? I call bullshit.
Poison Ivy is natural. Arsenic is natural. Numerous other poisons are natural... yet, do they act synergistically for mankind? No.
Just because something occurs in nature does not make it beneficial to humans.
imrational 9 months ago
@imrational Components in herbs act synergistically, for example, ginger contains approximately 700 components, isolating them to include only those deemed beneficial for treating certain symptoms, as the drugs companies routinely do to create their patented drugs, thinking they could outdo what nature has provided us, only creates a drug with side-effects and frequently very serious ones. Ginger, which is a food, has virtually no side effects. OK????? Your intrepretatoin is IRrational!
pkkda 9 months ago
@pkkda
The point you seem to be missing is that the active ingredients may have a positive effect, but only when taken in large doses. Ginger has "virtually no side-effects" but do you eat enough to get positive effect? If you did eat enough, could some of the other 699 components have a negative effect?
Again, just because something occurs in nature does not make it beneficial to humans. Some chemicals can be beneficial drugs, but dosage is important.
imrational 9 months ago
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pkkda 9 months ago
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@imrational The Periodic Table of Elements lists 110 known elements including; gases, solids, liquids, and “synthetics.” 20 out of the 110 known elements listed are man-made or synthetic. Reflective of man’s ability to create a “superior” element is the fact that ALL TWENTY man-made synthetic elements are either a contamination hazard, radioactive, or both!
pkkda 9 months ago
@pkkda
Of course, the fact that we evolved in environments without those man-made molecules/elements plays a part. Right now, there are fungi that have evolved to absorb radiation at Chernobyl and "eat it". Would those fungi regard those materials to be hazardous today?
imrational 9 months ago
@imrational Of course I didn't imply that poison Ivy, arsenic, etc. act synergistically...... you are putting words into my mouth. Yet they are beneficial when used in homeopathic form! Why do you need to clutter the argument by introducing extraneous BS, & thereby make it even more difficult to respond appropriately within the less than 500 words allotted.
pkkda 9 months ago
@pkkda Dont waste your time, this guy is probably bought for and paid off by the atheist league or some special interest bullshit. I mean where does he get off telling people that herbs in general are bad. Herbs have alkaloids that are mostly inactive and do not intefere within themselves, thats why theres a lot of herbal spectrum supplements, have you seen spectrum allopathic drugs? a tamiflu-excedrin-viagra-ibuprofen-aspirin concoction? no because they only treat the symptoms, not the cause
scientheism 9 months ago
@scientheism
Where did I say that herbals "are bad". They definitely can help make a bland dish taste much better. I gave specific reasons why a person should be leery of herbal MEDICATIONS.
As to your "alkaloids... do not interfere with themselves", you're quoting new-age bullshit that makes little sense in reality. Do you understand what you are even saying? The science of chemistry applies to herbs as well as big pharma meds.
imrational 9 months ago
@scientheism
"probably bought for & paid off by"... I wish the application of logic and rational thinking got me cash so easily.
Instead, we've tons of examples of people making quack statements supporting the sale of snake-oil products... comments later parroted by well-intentioned but ignorant people like yourself. Did you ever think that the people who made those initial comments about "alkaloids" or how "natural is good and acts synergistically" did so because it helped their bottom line?
imrational 9 months ago
@pkkda
Can you provide any decent evidence to support that poison ivy or arsenic are beneficial in homeopathic form?
Homeopathy is a failed hypothesis. It does not work. It has been disproven.
If 500 characters is not enough, please feel free to PM me.
imrational 9 months ago
@pkkda
I am not introducing extraneous BS. I'm showing examples of how you are wrong in your thinking. What is the difference between ginger (natural herb) and poison ivy (another natural herb). Why is one beneficial and the other hazardous if natural is good?
My point is that natural can be good, bad, or both.
imrational 9 months ago
@imrational In the context of my discourse it should have been clear that I meant medicinal herbs, not poisonous ones - therefore you ARE introducing BS. And what I was saying, & you misinterpreted, is, for example one of the components in the herb may help the disease by 2%, and another of its components may help 5%, but when combined they help 20% - that's synergy. Nature combines the components in the proper quantity so that there are not all the side effects that accompany pharmaceuticals.
pkkda 8 months ago
@pkkda
Why are medicinal herbs 100% good? Answer, they are not necessarily so. THAT WAS MY POINT.
Please explain to me, WHY would natural herbs have synergistic effects? WHAT makes a medicinal herb 100% healthy while poisonous herbs are bad? Why wouldn't an herb have good and bad chemical ingredients?
imrational 8 months ago
@imrational From you video and your responses to comments on this post, it is obvious that you never studied herbalism to the degree necessary to have a meaningful discourse involving same. And that explains why, with each response, you further convolve the matter - you are not rational by any stretch of the imagination. This is my farewell - I will leave it to those who read these comments to decide for themselves. You may be in the medical field, but probably only an orderly.
pkkda 8 months ago
@pkkda
Calling me "not rational" means nothing if you can't back up your statement. You have yet to address the points in this video. I'm a registered nurse, not an orderly... but regardless of my profession, I could be an orderly or a janitor, my points still stand.
It is your stance on herbs which are irrational. You say I convolute the issue, when in fact, I am merely pointing out the flaws in your rationale.
imrational 8 months ago
@imrational Lol poison Ivy is natural, arsenic is natural, ergo nature is bad, and doctors are angellic saints. I agree that not all, in fact, most of the plants have no medicinal value or benefit, but to go against a multibillion dollar industry just to make a dumb point? Humans are not stupid. If medicine A doesn't help them or is of no benefit, we stop taking it, the reason its so successful, is because it works. Atheism has fried your logical circuits.
scientheism 9 months ago
@scientheism
HeadOn, the topical headache medication you "apply directly to the forehead" disproves your point. Marketing can be effective and people will take things that only work via the placebo effect.
Also, please track back in the comments. I was responding to the comment, "herbs come from nature, are holistic, and their components act synergistically for the benefit of mankind". I would say that my response was very logically and factually correct.
imrational 9 months ago
I think a better topic to talk about is the side effects of pharmaceutical drugs. This idiot is biased.
pkkda 9 months ago
@pkkda
How am I being biased? I notice you choose to insult rather than actually responding to my points given in the video.
I acknowledge that big pharma has issues of their own, but this video doesn't address Big Pharma. It addresses the multi-million dollar industry of herbal medicines.
imrational 9 months ago
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pkkda 9 months ago
@imrational Perhaps I could have characterized you more accurately. But the fact that you have a lot to say about the negative effects of echinacea, i.e., “alternative therapy”, and neglect to at least mention that “mainstream treatments” such as Advil, Tylenol, etc., have even bigger problems, implies that you are biased. Ignorant people who watch your video will not have the whole picture, and will tend to stay away from alternative treatments based on your video.
pkkda 9 months ago
@pkkda
Mainstream treatments have problems, but are they "even bigger ones" than the ones faced by herbals? I think not. At least the mainstream ones have been proven to be effective.
imrational 9 months ago
@imrational In fact an alarming portion of the mainstream drugs have been removed form the market because they have been proven ineffective or have severe side effects (including death). That says something of the FDA approval process – severely flawed. The FDA & big Pharma's have the power, & their objective is to ban vitamin supplements & herbs, insofar as possible, but unfortunate for them there are not any valid reasons to do that.
pkkda 9 months ago
@imrational Come on!!! Mainstream drugs & treatments DO have far bigger problems than with herbals. Just look at the side effects (provided by you pharmacist) caused by drugs & compare it to herbals. If herbals had as many side effects & problems, the FDA would would have sufficient evidence to ban them; it's because they have no such evidence, that they are still available! The FDA would love to use even the most far fetched excuse to ban herbs.
pkkda 9 months ago
@pkkda
I gave specific reasons why I was against herbals. You have yet to respond to those reasons.
This video does not address big pharma or tested medications because those would require different cautions than herbals.
Before calling me biased and trying to put words in my mouth, please respond to the reasons/rationale I gave in this video. Correct me in my errors, unless of course, I am right.
imrational 9 months ago
@imrational You say that herbal sales were $4.3 billion. That sounds staggering; but in all fairness, you did not mention how that compares to pharmaceutical sales - very one-sided. None the less, it does go to show that there is a justified trend of people seeking alternatives because of the largely flawed “mainstream” medical system.
pkkda 9 months ago
@pkkda
Again, you want to argue against big pharma. That's a different topic entirely. Two wrongs don't make a right. I'm arguing against herbal medications and giving specific reasons why. As it stands, herbals are a big industry in their own right. Why are they exempt from greed and predatory business practices? Answer = they're not.
imrational 9 months ago
@pkkda
Just because the mainstream medical system is flawed, does that justify the use of ineffectual products? If you have appendicitis but can't afford the surgery, does going to a "psychic" surgeon who charges you less fix your problems? No.
imrational 9 months ago
@imrational I'm not putting words into your mouth, rather it is the words coming form your mouth that show your bias. My initial assertion that you are biased keeps getting reinforced by your own words – you have already unequivocally proved that you are not only partial in favor of the pharmaceutical drugs but strongly against alternative therapies/supplements.
pkkda 9 months ago
@pkkda
again, you call me biased but refuse to address my points with any kind of decent rebuttal.
It's like a person who is caught murdering someone else, but then cries out, "why arrest me?!? There are many other murders that are never solved! You're picking on me but singling me out!"
Many big pharma drugs ARE effective in treating and/or curing medical conditions. They have been heavily tested, we know their interactions, their safe and effective dose ranges, etc.
Address my points.
imrational 9 months ago
@imrational I'm in agreement with you that physicians are, for the most part, well-intentioned toward the well being of their patients; however they are constrained in what treatments they can administer since they are controlled by the medical cabal who are profit motivated. That cabal are lobbyists for their own interests without regard to the victims that they affect. What is taught in medical schools is also tailored & controlled by this same cabal.
pkkda 9 months ago
@imrational You give some examples of how herbs interfere with other drugs. Big deal. Drugs also interfere with other drugs, and that is why you need to check for interactions before taking them. The way you present is very one-sided, as if it is only peculiar to herbs. In fact herbs have far less interactions than drugs do.
pkkda 9 months ago
After reading some other comments, I realised that you, imrational, are not a Doctor. I am sorry that I assumed that you were one.
j11994466s 10 months ago
Reading the comments further down, I learn that you, imrational, are not a doctor. I am sorry that I called you one. My only hope is that you know what you are talking about as your comments are not very rational or scientific nor is the tone of your comments very civil.
j11994466s 10 months ago
@j11994466s
Please point out to me how my comments are not rational or scientific. As to the tone of my comments, I try very hard to be civil and I think if you look back at the comments, you'll see that I am much more polite than the people calling me "biased", "not very rationale", "an idiot". etc.
Again, please address my points and please explain how I am not being scientific or rational.
imrational 9 months ago
CONTD 1: We hear almost every month about the withdrawl of one medicine or the other with hundreds of millions of dollars fines attached. Your 'modern' medicines suddenly smell of snake oil. I You do not seem to apologize for that. BTW, taking M&Ms for cold is a sure way to get fat and unhealthy because of the sugar- or do you not know of insulin problems? You are a doctor which used to mean teacher. Students necessarily know less than you. So teach, not call names.
j11994466s 10 months ago
@j11994466s
Why do I need to apologize for modern medicines in this video? This video was not addressing them. I was addressing the "hype" of herbal medicines which are unjustified. Just because something is "natural" does not make it healthy.
As to my comments not being rational, scientific, or civil... you didn't read very far. Please point out those instances where I wasn't provoked by the poster insulting me first. Please point out where I am not being rational or scientific.
imrational 10 months ago
Perhaps the title should have been What's wrong with ecchinecea medicine? Seriously, to take one example and lump ALL herbs into the pot is way beyond unscientific. You have a problem with Echinecea and you have proof? Fine. But EVERY herb? Come on doctor! Your polemics almost beg the question about who your funder is. You ignore that 25% of the modern medicines are either derived from plants or were first discovered from plant molecules. CONTD..1
j11994466s 10 months ago
@j11994466s
My points still stand, whether or not I'm a doctor.
So what if a large percentage of modern medicines came from plants? We're still dealing with other ingredients, inability to control quality/quantity/efficacy, medication interactions, etc.
Also, my points still apply to pretty much any and all herbals. Address my arguments please.
imrational 10 months ago
@imrational
Your post is about echinecea. Fine. Echineacea, according to you has been proven ineffective. First, there are many researchers who seriously doubt this conclusion, so please hold your fire. Second, stay with echinecea as I said. Many, many herbs work and are very effective. A recent example is turmeric prevents cancer. There is not enough space to address them all, Modern medicine causes more dangerous side effects than they cure, take statins for example. CONT'D1
j11994466s 10 months ago
You are wrong. Biologists have made great strides in the areas of standardization to address quality, quantity and efficacy. Modern medicines pollute. When you drink water today, you are also drinking statins, SRI drugs and many others because nature cannot deal with these molecules. Herbs have no such problem. Can herbs solve every problem? No. But they do solve many.
Then again, stay with echinecea, do not generalize. Do not dig up discarded practices as biology advances daily (asparagus).
j11994466s 10 months ago
@j11994466s
1. This video was about herbals, not Big Pharma. Just because Big Pharma has faults doesn't mean herbals therefore get a clean bill of health.
2. We still have poaching of plants & animals based on misguided notions, herbalists dispensing herbs and advice based on bad principles, Quality and quantity still suffer. Did you read about how a homeopathic nasal spray with zinc resulted in people permanently losing their sense of smell?
imrational 10 months ago
@j11994466s con't
3. in your argument about "nature cannot deal with these molecules". We're talking about a vast amount of these chemicals. Nature (and our treatment plants) can't handle the VOLUME, but they would break down if given time. Example, If you dumped enough poison ivy in a city's water supply, it would still end up contaminated with Urushiol (poison ivy's active ingredient).
The volume of these ingredients are high (in many cases) cause that dose is needed for efficacy
imrational 10 months ago
ok, ive seen your type, you just like being so ridiculous to get attention, and make a bunch of people unnecessarily upset just so you can feel good about yourself
wow, with everything to focus on in this world, this is embaressing!
clearshquarter 11 months ago
@clearshquarter
Where was I being ridiculous?
What am I saying that is making people "unecessarily upset" and why is it upsetting to them?
I would posit that they are upset because I am pointing out valid flaws in their reasoning and they are loathe to change their worldview.
imrational 11 months ago
@clearshquarter amen!! thanks for the great comment!!
jaggar14 10 months ago
you try and attack me on how i can about arguing against you, that pathetic natural medicine is governed by the laws of the planet and universe you dumb fuck.. Honestly no one likes you and please delete this video before i flag it.
elementellGK 1 year ago
@elementellGK
What would you flag the video over? Dude, instead of resorting to unethical methods to try and shut up people critical of your views, how about you actually engage in a conversation with them and debate with them? Perhaps you will change their mind or maybe even you might learn something and change yours.
Also, how do you know what the "laws of the planet and universe" ARE? Where did you get that knowledge?
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational im studying as a civil engineer and i've explored alot of different studies, im done here you are pathetically annoying and im not going to waste my time on some retard stubborn idiot's youtube video.
elementellGK 1 year ago
@elementellGK
Glad to hear that you're not going to waste your time any further. I wasn't striving to reach the pathetic level of annoying, but it's nice to know I made it anyway. Have a good life.
imrational 1 year ago
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ressievandynevrg 1 year ago
Finally: Big Pharma. You're a hypocrite. Whatever that number was that you threw out there against Alternative Health marketing is pennies in comparison to the 30% of the US Economy being dedicated to orthodox modalities in healthcare. Now Pharma's marketing being the satanic majesty that it is has this very same, poorly educated public choosing congestive heart failure over high blood pressure, or kidney failure or liver failure. How is this superior?
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
@skorchedutopia
You're putting words in my mouth and that is dishonest. I never said that Big Pharma is perfect. I was saying, in this video, to beware herbals and listed reasons why not.
Big Pharma is an entirely different subject.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational: I'm saying that claiming Alternative Medicine can even hope to compete on a marketing budget of Big Pharma's scale doesn't flaw the industry, simply you. Consider also the sources for the money. Private pockets. Not subsidized, not insurable.
But, I agree, we'll leave Big Pharma to another time.
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
The lack of a guarantee in what you're getting: more than just the active constituent. You said so yourself that there are thousands of chemicals in any given plant. Now how come just one of those chemicals could be deemed beneficial/harmful and not at all be effect by the compounds coexisting within the organism? Now how can science hope to laud one aspect (for instance, WBC Basophil) and not the other functions aiding it (or the rest of the white blood cells, anatomy analogy)?
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
@skorchedutopia
I'm not sure I'm understanding your argument here. We know that some active ingredients can be beneficial at certain doses and harmful or non-beneficial at other dosages. We know that some other active ingredients are harmful at all levels, etc.
When you take a prescription drug, the unknown ingredients are minimized and the beneficial ingredients are dosed to provide beneficial effects.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational: I'll also try to be succinct:
-Chemicals and Functions evolve in a plant's entirety, some direct, others to be buffers. When the botanical is whole (or cured, TCM) the side-effects are far less. See: Apples w/pectin and methanol. Again, these are chemicals that aid in the plants metabolic functions for survival.
-Isolated Constituents can have a beneficial often drastic effect. A system is put into shock through the influx of dosing and compliance can be inconsistent at best.
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
@skorchedutopia
a plant could evolve a chemical beneficial to itself and also, coincidentally, be beneficial to us, but that doesn't mean that all the chemicals in the plant are needed or beneficial for us.
Example, let's say toxicodendron radicans is found to have a beneficial chemical that helps cancer patients. That doesn't mean that all of its chemicals are beneficial and can actually be harmful to humans and this can be shown because toxicodendron radicans is also known as poison ivy.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational: In biological terms that any number of compounds within a plant may or may not be "beneficial" to the person consuming them--but, if the compounds worked together within, presumably, they work outside of those confines. The evolutionary course of the plant dictates this breed of synergy. As of this day, Science cannot quantify the types/names of the chemicals to be found, let alone associate function.
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
@skorchedutopia: Phytochemistry is hopelessly complex. What we do know about Phytochemistry is largely derived from the metabolic processes of catalysts and converters within. I call it selective and ignorant to prize one chemical over the various attachments to and not once considering anything that may also assist.
Isolated therapeutics like lovastatin cause liver and kidney damage. By apply monacolin K in its entirety (Red Yeast Rice), the patient avoids paralleled side-effects.
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
@skorchedutopia: In short, yes, the consumer cannot be entirely sure of what they are getting in a dose. This can be the fault of a variety of reasons (bad farming practices, bad manufacturing)--HOWEVER--standardizing extracts into international units and trusting in the very synergy that helped the botanical thrive is not a "downside" to herbal application. Any chemical that can be harmful (solitary) can be counter-acted within, or formulated to over-ride any negative balances.
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
@skorchedutopia
"Any chemical that can be harmful (solitary) can be counter-acted within, or formulated to over-ride any negative balances."
That is an extraordinary claim, prove it and provide evidence.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational: It's the theory in formulations. It's why you can't buy Comfrey (Symphytum officinale) from a commercial source (tincture, capsule, etc) for internal use due to PAs (pyrro-something alkaloids). However, there's a version of Comfrey called 'Comfree' that has a formulation from three other plants (made by Solaray) that effectually do the same thing. Now this is a modern example for something that's been done, traditionally, in both the east and the west.
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
@skorchedutopia
"I call it selective and ignorant to prize one chemical over the various attachments to and not once considering anything that may also assist"
"Phytochemistry is hopelessly complex".
In one sentence you berate that we don't have/use full understanding and in the other, you basically say we cannot. You are not being very logical.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational: It is the paradox therein. It's not illogical. But in its current state, the examples of infantile until we've learned much, much more. See James Duke and the phytochemistry database for more information.
We are learning. Botany and Herbalism are tied at the hip and by way of age-old therapuetics and the clinical herbalist does the dance. You cannot blame the practitioners for the public that believes every advertising claim.
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
@skorchedutopia
Herbalism has a bad track record for truth. Studies on a lot of the herbal medications previously prescribed have proven ineffective (University studies & not big Pharma studies either).
Remember how asparagus was listed as a cure for impotence because it grew as a long straight shaft? Not exactly good science there, eh? It was a failed hypothesis that was maintained for how many decades/centuries?
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational: A month later and this is the argument you resurrect? Please. Thousands of years of treatment do not pale in comparison to fifty-to-seventy years of reductionist doctrine. And by the way, claims of asparagus being used for erectile dysfunction are farce. For Incontinence, maybe, but not impotence--Eclectic-Era Medicine (Late 1700s) dealt with Asparagus in suspicion because of the off-odored results in urine and thereby, suggested the Kidney's poor response to it.
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
@imrational: Phytochemistry is hopelessly complex. But you're comparing what is 'sea water' to the average American to the science of Marine Biology and what all goes into that soup. On the cellular/particulate level, you're scrutinizing what is 'Echinacea', bad advertising and ignorance to what is actually there. The alternative is to value the whole over the parts because if this is what has evolved, my God, something must've gone right. And maybe, "we" weren't the first to verify this.
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
@imrational: I'm saying that we cannot hope to know every chemical constituent and its actions in this lifetime. It will not happen. Yet, there are many lifetimes that have evolved medicine and that reductionist science has a couple of thousands of years to catch up. What year was the telescope invented? Being educated about this subject matter requires a willingness to piece together hundreds of concepts and debunk as you go.
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
Societally, as the phytochemicals are analyzed and the plant is mapped, things will fit just as modern evolution slides into the theory of Natural Selection. We have a basis, we move forward. This applies to everything. This is what makes up modern medicine.
Not lobbies and cornered markets with a crop of hopelessly sick folks and those with just enough insatiable curiosity to validate the principles taught.
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
Every other point you've posed is only applicable to misinformed public that's largely ignorant to the most basic bodily processes from respiration to metabolism. Placebo effect? Absolutely. It's still an effect. Now the drop in WBC counts happened after 24-hours. Prior to an inundation of whatever pathogen, there is an incubation period. The counts went up by 4k, then every 24-hour period thereafter, dropped by 2k. Now you're going to say that 4k additional in the ranks isn't effective?
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
@skorchedutopia
the Placebo effect is an effect, but to say that herbals are good because of that makes no sense at all. People could have a beneficial placebo effect from poison, but that doesn't mean that the poison was really good for them!
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational: We get into discussions of snake handlers and daughter-rapers down the power-of-faith road. I loathe going there. I did have two points with this statement, however:
-"Placebo Effects" vary. If the patient doesn't believe in the treatment, the chances of that treatment failing are greatly increased. Others are delusional.
-WBC rising then falling: in Herbalism terms, Echinacea is an Immunostimulant. Not for the long-term, not for acute conditions.
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
@skorchedutopia
If echinacea is an immunostimulant... then why can't we find hard core evidence (not anecdotal) that it actually works?
Check the news, we've got yet another study that shows it isnt effective.
imrational 1 year ago
#1 - Malformed White Blood cells? Perhaps this is in a reference on your video comments, but I'm in possession of a fairly broad botanical library and not even the "safest" and most prudent Western applicants have referred to Echinacae causing malformations. Can you source that study?
skorchedutopia 1 year ago
@skorchedutopia
Been looking for that specific study, but don't have medline or Cinahl at my home.
Did you see the recent articles about Echinacea being no better than placebo in the latest studies?
imrational 1 year ago
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meldagallefbg 1 year ago
I just so happen to be a fully certified Naturopath and I work with quite a few different M.D.'s. Each one will tell you that herbal remedies can be quite effective if utilyzed properly and under the supervision of a professional such as a Master Herbalist or Holistic Health Practitioner each of which with the proper certifications. You need to do your research and don't believe everything you read. By the way ALL PHARMACUETICALS are made from natural substaces such as Garlic and Echinacea.
friendtyler 1 year ago
@friendtyler
Okay, fine. Then address the specific points I have given in this video.
imrational 1 year ago
The blurb here isn't even accurate anyway. Echinacea does stimulate the immune system, and it seems to have ingredients that allieviate respiratory tract problems. Why else would it be used by healers and shamans, if it didn't work? They don't have fake legal systems and companies and adverts to hide their fails or lies behind, they can't 'afford' to be wrong.
So eg - Native Americans knew what plants to use for food but not medicine?! No cause they knew about both.
DracOverLordHaton 1 year ago
@DracOverLordHaton
You need to do some research. Many herbals prove to not work as healers claim. Heck, some herbal preps have been revealed to include secretly crushed up prescription meds because the herbals weren't doing squat.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational - no, you need to do some research and you also need to quit trying to make it seem like anyone who impartially looked into anything would claim something like 'oh some people faked this, so that automatically puts the whole lot under suspicion' - as if you can ignore the fact that it's worked around the entire fucking planet for thousands of years.
DracOverLordHaton 1 year ago
btw if anyone isn't aware, I wa refering to things like premarin re. the horse piss - there are drugs that are prescribed for menopausal related issues that use animal hormones.
Which only occur because of modern diets being full of toxins, including the un-natural energies caused by intensive and factory-farming, and things like cosmetics and other poisons. Like childbirth, it isn't painful or unpleasant when it's done naturally.
DracOverLordHaton 1 year ago
@DracOverLordHaton
lol, "childbirth, it isn't painful or unpleasant when it's done naturally."
and yet, we have ancient texts like the bible that refer to pain during childbirth. So apparently, the natural method USED to be painful.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational - No scumfuck pedo-cult useless-eater knows-its-a-lying demonic faggot - the Bible mentioning child-birth being painful is only because the human females were impregnated by the Annunaki or Fallen Angels - "the sons of gods who went with the daughters of men" - that is why cesarian births happen, their genes make children who are too physically large to get through a human females cervix.
DracOverLordHaton 1 year ago
What's the fucking difference:
1. female hormones derived from horse piss - which you may be prescribed off a doctor
2. horse piss itself as some sort of cure
- just throwing that one in, first cause of the animal abuse involved in harvesting it - when it's not needed for those hormones to be available (they occur in plants), second cause there's as many mineral and animal derived active ingredients used in pharms too. Yes! mineral - like oh in crystals and gemstones.
DracOverLordHaton 1 year ago
As if this needs to be pointed out, since it's so fucking obvious -
herbal and related forms of medicine are what got people to where they were a few hundred years back, when they first started (in this continent in this epoch) to investigate 'active ingredients' and then last isloate them and-or make synthetic versions of them. It's in those recent times that tech 'progress' has masked the damage done to biology and ecosystems and therefore health in general. Genocide of the natural.
DracOverLordHaton 1 year ago
Total lies by the usual satanic scumfuck conspiracy of pedo's. Herbal medicine works fine, and has been used around the entire planet for way longer and successfully so, than the modern version of it - all modern drugs are, are an artificial version of herbal medicine, with toxins added to them. That's all they are, those pills etc you get off the pharmacy.
DracOverLordHaton 1 year ago
Herbal Medicine is great, but u need experts or knowledgable people to administer it. Great Pharmaceutical Companies discredit their use, bcos herbals are cheap and easy to use, and all these big companies spend so much money they want it back doubled. So they talk evil of herbal medicine and discourage its use. But nature gives us food and also gives us medicine. If nature can feed us, which is a great feat, it can also heal us. Unfortunately modern science is disqualifying herbal medicine.
otirudam 1 year ago
@otirudam
Watch my video again. Even if an herbal has a beneficial active ingredient, you can't control dosage, it likely has other active ingredients which could be harmful, etc.
It's not a Big Pharma conspiracy. It's basic chemistry.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational - you're a tool of the worst evilest scumfucks imaginable, and all of your kind will be destroyed in every way possible. You know you are a liar, you have no excuses, you know that herbals are safe and have been proven so over thousands of years, you know that pharms have toxic ingredients added to them which have nothing at all to do with their medical properties.
You're nothing but the same scum that burned witches, to eradicate truth and knowledge.
DracOverLordHaton 1 year ago
Natural remedies work. God made grass so cows can eat it, and we get milk from the cows. That's how nature works. Everything that exist has a purpose, God made echinacea, uva ursi, propolis, for a reason.
Conventional medicine doesn't work and it's so much more expensive. All it does is supress symptoms.
All of the pharmaceutical companies are in on it, they will never reveal cures. They care about profits.
GhostGrind 1 year ago
@GhostGrind
Conventional medicines are tested to make sure they work better than placebo. So, yes... they do work for at least more than what chance would allow.
Pharm companies make antibiotics which have and continue to cure people.
Okay, so a god made grass for cows... but if true, he also made poisonous vegetations too. You're only looking at a small part of the picture.
imrational 1 year ago
@GhostGrind Wait wait wait
So what you are saying is ...
God made natural remedies to treat diseases...which he made....since he made everything....
THAT TOTALLY MAKES SENSE, I WILL START TAKING NATURAL CRAP AND BELIEVE IN GOD
you wish...
TheStrayCross 1 year ago
@TheStrayCross Maybe the devil created illnesses and diseases. Oh and you need to stop being so rude.
GhostGrind 1 year ago
@GhostGrind And the devil is more powerful than god? Either that or god simply doesn't care that we die of disease
TheStrayCross 1 year ago
@TheStrayCross Is the devil more powerful than god?? Who's to say. One thing is for sure, life has to be balanced, where there is good there is evil.
GhostGrind 1 year ago
@GhostGrind You said "maybe the devil created illnesses and diseases" so the devils creation is better than gods so the devil is more powerful than god
Or god simply doesn't care
Or neither of them exist which is the most likely and has a s*** load of evidence behind it
TheStrayCross 1 year ago
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metheman2k 1 year ago
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metheman2k 1 year ago
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metheman2k 1 year ago
If you take my word for anything or imrationals' word for anything you are going to make an asumption, come to a conclusion, close your mind and then "YOU" lose as do all who know you. Find it out for yourself, read , research, look at both sides and educate yourself so that you can make an educated decision based on what makes sense of "your" findings, not someones motives, opinions, or their lack of information. Good Luck... Remember, what you put into you makes you and who you are...
trc757s 1 year ago
Scientific studies by whom? who own interest in them? The plant is ineffective but can effect you in bad ways...common. You might not get what you pay for? What about in your face side effects "may cause death"? People live longer in our society. error. Our eldest living use herbs and food as medicine being the common factor. Yes I think the Pharm Ind keep people sick. Free market... you can only get rich once curing but filthy rich keeping the sick. Drs in consiracy LOL
trc757s 1 year ago
@trc757s You only know what your taught, teachers what they're taught. Educations a manipulating factor in all countries based on time and events. What type of echinacea was used? where harvested? how old? what parts used? what pplication used and used for? You are proof positive of mass ignorance. A Master debater NOT. Just because I said should satisfy you since just because they said you beleive. Dont take my word, you find it or you become the next moronic generation capable of anything
trc757s 1 year ago
@trc757s Oh and by the way I say take echinacea if you know how and when it is apropriate. Example "I" have witnessed echinacea used with golden seal in raw form packed in capsules to treat one of the worst abcessed tooth (tunneling toward the eye). And by the way first response was "get to a hospitol"! there is a need for ER" the person was not willing, less than 36hours abcess was not visible in mouth or in face, pain gone, fever gone. 3 yrs later still doing great. Botanicals do work.
trc757s 1 year ago
@trc757s
One anecdotal case study does not make a truth. Perhaps your friend spontaneously recovered and the echinacea/golden seal was not even a factor. Perhaps it was something else he/she ate or drank?
Botanicals COULD work... but again, you need to evaluate efficacy, side effects, dosage, etc.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational Silly man the reason so many look to botanicals are due to the pharms side effects and efficacy. Dose your theory apply to pharms dont do a thing but harm, if the patient gets better it was something else they did, ate, or drank ? You don't even know what your debating which shows how irrational you are. Educate yourself first so you can add something other than what you've learned to parrot from others in your field whom have learned to parrot from others in their field LOL.
trc757s 1 year ago
@trc757s
Silly?
Maybe, but please think before insulting. Please answer why botanicals have fewer side effects and are more effective. This goes against logic.
Yes, if people get better from an illness, there could be many different reasons why. You seriously need to read up on how scientific experiments are run.
imrational 1 year ago
@trc757s
running scientific experiments are not as hard as you seem to think. Local professors might be able to help you design some simple studies if you don't trust some of the ones out there. Heck, you can replicate some other ones too!
I notice that you seem to be "moving the goalposts" now though. So, it's not a question of echinacea being effective, it has to be grown in a specific region and only specific parts can be used, etc.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational Silly man Scientific studies cost a lot of money, and if there's a lack of interest there are also a lack of funding. Botanicals however do have thousands of years of private studies very personal infact. Yet the FDA have changed all the rules, reclassified illnessed or symptoms of side effects of pharms to disease and made law that these herbs cannot treat them??? Common now this is wrong in any sense, in fact you can have a gross lack of common sense and see that one.
trc757s 1 year ago
@imrational Also I am not "moving the goalposts" You failed here too I did not imply it being grown in a specific region, etc. these are necessary questions that should be taken into consideration as to how and why or why not something works. On simpler terms lets say you get gas down the road most of the time but some of the time you get gas in 5 other stations. Sometimes your having trouble with your car sputtering and not running right.
trc757s 1 year ago
@trc757s you take it to a mechanic, it might be a mystery or not. Its based on the education and skill of the mechanic. Now if all possibilities are taken in they might find one of those stations had a rusty tank it rained infiltrated, stirred it in and you had water in your gas now. But "you" get gas there often just always mist the rain before. Many factors go into botanicals. Your "regions" might be in different soil types like a "Moco Rock outcropping" as apossed to a "Clarksville"
trc757s 1 year ago
@trc757s There are a lot of variance in 30 feet even. Parts of the plant common this shows even more ignorance. Sometimes the root has stronger concentrations than the upper. A Water variable? take a pepper, plant two jalapenos, Water one every day, just keep the other from dying. The pepper with less water will be the same as the other in looks and size just terribly HOT. Thats a botanical variable and there are too many others to type here.
trc757s 1 year ago
@trc757s
Sorry it took awhile to respond. I mentioned the inability for herbals to produce reliable dosage and quality in my video. If you are acknowledging that we cannot accurately dose herbals then I guess we're in agreement.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational I think it's not a matter of whether you think it's logical, but a matter of whether it works for you. If it doesn't work for you, then don't resort to herbal medicine.
stgl1987 1 year ago
@stgl1987
I am against people spreading false information that leads others to waste their money or neglect proper medical care.
imrational 1 year ago
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dpb29073 1 year ago
It is a terrible thing to lose sight of what once would have been second nature to your ancestors...YES YOUR ANCESTORS MR! I mean how do you think they coped without doctors etc. How do you think tribes survive an stay healthy? There have been many studies on tribes and how they eat/medicate maybe you want to look at DR WESTON PRICE'S work. thats a prime exmaple of what I'm talking about. YOU SIR KNOW NOTHING!
Victoriam4074 1 year ago
@Victoriam4074
I think it is amazing at the things our ancestors achieved. That said, why do you think that primitive tribes had/have such a shorter lifespan than those in the developing world?
imrational 1 year ago
I dont think thats herbal medicines have anything to do with life span, I think it was all part of evolution that man has come to live longer. I mean tribes do not have healthcare yet they live to be very old people!
Victoriam4074 1 year ago
@Victoriam4074
I think you should check your data a little more closely. Indigenous tribes without modern medicine usually do not have extended lifespans.
I recommend you rent that last DVD version of "The Gods Must Be Crazy" and watch the documentary in the extra content part of the DVD. The filmmakers go back to the tribe in the movie several times and witness the changes.
They have the natives talk about how it is so much better to have modern medicine and more reliable food supplies.
imrational 1 year ago
Alot of folks out there believe herbs don't work. OH ok, if thats true then why is it that pharmacuetical companies make SYNTHETIC versions of plant chemicals to make drugs...why is that 50% of todays drugs originated from plants...and still do...take TAMIFLU for instance this is a drug for swine flu...it is infact made from;...wait for it...STAR ANISE!!! The little spice shaped like a star, the seed of which is used in flavouring of aniseed balls...get it ANISE SEED ANISEED...no?? anyone??
Victoriam4074 1 year ago
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Victoriam4074 1 year ago
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Victoriam4074 1 year ago
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Victoriam4074 1 year ago
It's a shame that those who are trying to understand more about herbal medicine have to encounter people like you. The prejudiced type, who's under the impression of self formed opinions yet is only spewing out well fed garbage. One who types in herbal medicine strikes you video third off the rank, its an atrocity and bet you love being "that guy"
Lemonsky3 1 year ago
@Lemonsky3
It's a shame you wish to attack my character instead of addressing my arguments. However, your methods speak volumes and might explain why my video ranks third among herbal videos.
imrational 1 year ago
I like how you mentioned the "alternative" of food perhaps being a cause of prevention, that's a very "complementary" thing to say. Considering doctors know next to nothing about nutrition, don't stress it's importance yet 'feed' out handfuls of pills says enough. You're a walking contradiction harboring much prejudice, arrogance and ignorance... the personality of a slender rice flower. Eat your M&M's all you want but comes a time... there comes a time indeed!
Lemonsky3 1 year ago
@Lemonsky3
I'm not as much a contradiction as you seem to imply (IMHO). Food/herbals CAN affect one's health (in beneficial or hazardous ways). This video points out reasons why people should be careful with herbals. I've noticed that people criticizing my video and I seem to ignore the actual points I made most of the time.
imrational 1 year ago
I'd like to see the "evidence based practice" on your m&m vs echinacea campaign... and where are most pharmaceuticals compounds derived from?
Lemonsky3 1 year ago
@imrational isolating the active constituents is a safer means? This is incorrect! take ephedra for example.. your pharmaceuticals will isolate nor-ephedrine (pseudo-ephedrine) yet this has proved detrimental side effects esp. Whilst having ephedra in it's holistic state, which involves both chemical compounds ephedrine and nor-ephedrine, works in perfect synergy which together have no toxic effect. It's when you isolate the compound it becomes toxic.
Lemonsky3 1 year ago
@Lemonsky3
Really? So you're saying that ephedrine and nor-ephedrine when combined have no side-effects? Why don't the drug companies market a drug with both then?
Can you point to the scientific study that shows that?
Isolation doesn't create toxicity. The fact that there are plants that are poisonous shows that natural plants have toxic substances themselves.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational Keep in mind that drug companies cannot patent plants in their whole form, so why would they research something they cannot make money from? Face it, sick people are big business.
Lemonsky3 1 year ago
@Lemonsky3
Sick people ARE big business... which is why the unregulated herbal industry rakes in large amounts of cash. Why do you think that pharm companies have an incentive to be greedy but not herbal companies?
imrational 1 year ago
@Lemonsky3
"Keep in mind that drug companies cannot patent plants in their whole form, so why would they research something they cannot make money from?"
You mentioned yourself that pharmaceutical companies derive their drugs from plants a lot of the time. THAT is a reason for them to research plants. As I mentioned in my video, they still need to identify the chemicals that work, note side effects, dose, etc.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational And I'd really like to see this "evidence based practice" of m&m vs echinacea "point" you've raised!? Where are most pharmaceuticals derived from?.. Plants! precious and beautiful until placed in the hands of a business man!!
Lemonsky3 1 year ago
@Lemonsky3
2005, New England Journal of Medicine. It was a tightly controlled study that included 437 people. Read about how the study was conducted and compare that to some of the shoddy ones done that later showed a beneficial effect.
imrational 1 year ago
Dear Mr. ummm I am IR-imrational......Echinacea is not a drug. Some of us do not want to take drugs....any herb or medication for that matter should be used when needed and not otherwise. I could say a lot of stuff here but I'll just say you obviously don't know anything about Natural healing....can't see the importance of taking OUR health and personal power back into our own hands.....and pretty much just sound like a fool in my book. Bless your little pointed head...... )O(
giaiddreams 1 year ago
@giaiddreams
Echinacea is made of chemicals and is used to affect the body (supposedly "boost your immune system"). That meets the definition of drug.
I am a nurse and have studied alternative medicine. Maybe in your view of reality I am a fool, but I believe in evidence-based practice. Show me the theory for how something works and the supporting evidence.
I pointed out some of the flaws with herbal medicines. I notice you decided to attack my appearance & not my points. Telling.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational i know its not your fault but.... your pretty messed up... information wise atleast
rtrxggg 1 year ago
@rtrxggg
I'm always willing to learn and admit when I'm wrong. Please point out where my information was wrong.
imrational 1 year ago
If you truly are an honest medical professional, congratulations--you are in a disappearing group. I respectfully disagree with many of the points in your video, being from a family consisting almost exclusively of nurses, pharmacists and nurse's aids. My mother is no longer a nurse's aid because of moral objections to the mind set of the hospitals she worked in. Many of my relatives are not able to tell me everything involved, but the general consensus is that pharmaceuticals are VERY, very bad
SilentHillWren 1 year ago
@SilentHillWren
Why are pharmaceuticals bad?
Is it because pharmaceutical companies have a profit motive? If that's the case, then why are herbals good? The herbal and homeopathic industries have profit motives too... sometimes far stronger than pharmaceutical ones because they are less regulated and can make claims that drug companies can't.
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational Yes, anyone in any industry has profit driven motives, because as you stated, it's a free market. I myself am not a doctor, but I know that what the doctors and nurses tell their own families in the privacy of their homes only has the motive of love and concern behind it. I'm glad what you do works for you, and what I do works for me. My body is just much more responsive to more natural alternatives.
SilentHillWren 1 year ago
@SilentHillWren
Okay, WHY is your body "more responsive to more natural alternative"?
imrational 1 year ago
@imrational I have no clue, because I'm not an f**king doctor!!! I think it may have something to do with my sulfate allergy. This conversation is getting to long, lol.
SilentHillWren 1 year ago
Larch Tree Extract itself has been scientifically proven to be 3 TIMES MORE POTENT than Echinacea and has been used by native people for hundreds of years to treat infections and fight cold symptoms.
marimanque 1 year ago