if you are going to ignore even one part of the bible, you might as well ignore the whole thing. i could tell it was ass-backwards bullshit when i was 13 and that hasn't changed.
Why are people using this video to bash Christianity? Christianity isn't the problem here, bigotry is. Not all Christians are bigots and as Christians, we all believe that God is merciful and loving. We should all believe that people are equal and love can be shared between any two people. If people say anything about God, it at least shouldn't be anything hateful. Bigots can be found anywhere in the world and it's a misconception that they're all Christians. Geez, learn love and respect.
People need to realize this: Just because the Bible says it, doesn't mean it should be followed. Just because it's against biblical laws doesn't mean we should condemn it. Just because someone says God has a problem with it, doesn't mean He actually does.
It's sad what people do with the Bible: a book of love used to support their hearts full of hate. I'm a christian and I condemn sin but I will absolutely not condemn any human being or disrespect anyone because of they're lifestyle.
Whatever your name is, the bible is full of outmoded demented cultural shit that some idiots still practice, in tents in the Sahara. The bible, koran and Torah are all the same- the opinions of retards who claim to have inspiration from god. And by the way, don't respond till thou hast learnt english properly, idiot.
This movie is available streaming on Netflix. It is wonderful and helped me overcome some of my fear that God would be mad at me for supporting equality. Love conquers all including fear. You don't have to be afraid to support love.
@iamawesome1001 I am seriously hoping that you are trolling right now. No one CHOOSES to be gay! Not only is that ignorant, but you have no evidence to back that up! Did you choose to be straight? In other words, was there a point in your life when you had gay and straight thoughts, and you chose to be straight? If not, how can you say thats true for anyone? Please don't spread this hate.
when it comes down to it, we all should just love each other. our sick capitalist country thats culture is christian based is disgusting. i can't believe people can live with so much hate. open up your eyes. a life and world of love and acceptance will bring you so much more happiness than one closed by belief and control.
@tgillspy1 you have to be kidding. ANYONE who does ANYTHING sexual can be at risk for a disease..... and no sex act has EVER been scientifically proven as unhealthy...... (just because gay men have anal sex does not make them unhealthy....) LOL you need to open up your close minded little head you've got wrapped all up in religion and live a real life
Now tell me something.. If God "cannot look upon or tolerate the behavior" of Homosexuals, why would he create them? You have no idea how many times a day I wish that I could decide my sexual orientation. Frankly, I don't like being hated, lectured, and even taunted for something I have NO control over. All throughout High School I was forced to hide who I truly am because not only was I part of an Athletic team, but also because I was so afraid of what my Catholic family would say.
@tgillspy1 If you're right, God made a mistake making me gay. Not years of confession & repentance & crying & persecution, growing up in your "loving" religion, changed that. Oh well.
What freed me beyond all doubt was the fundamental in your own religion that you shit upon: "Love does no harm to a neighbor, therefore Love is the fulfilling of the law." You can spout all your "fundamentalist:" religion minus the fundamental, and I'll take the fundamental, minus your "fundamentalism".
Looks like people are still dying.How did he die for us? If I hit myself in the foot with a shovel will it fix someone else's mortgage? And why invent homosexuality? Is there no quality control in the God factory?
For The Quran Tells Me So: I'll slit people's throat, slam planes into buildings, make women 2nd class citizens and marry 4 of them, and live by SHARIA!
you realli fink because the bible and you christian finks its wrong,im going to stop being gay ??? i fuck wat u fink and gonna live my live,you keep on hating
How is telling someone that they are wrong, unloving? What is love? Tolerance?
I believe the supposed "Christians"who think gays should die are obviously not following the teachings of Jesus and should be ignored as the prime example for all Christians.
God calls us to love. And love does not mean let everyone do whatever the heck they want.
@DanPrinMan Love is correction. Say that to a soul rotting in the lake of fire for eternity. They will tell you THEN that love is correction not tolerance.
Two things I always found interesting about the bible: First, that there's no mention at all of our extinct cousins, the Neanderthals, who buried their dead and worshiped their own gods and suspiciously were not mentioned at all in the story of creation.
Second, that Shakespeare is a better writer than God. I mean, c'mon now, anyone who's read the bible... did that read like it was written by a god, or at its behest? Was that really the best the creator of the universe could do?
@Kakuoteyalu I'm the idiot when you're the one who can't even grasp such a basic point. Do we really need to go over this with a fine-tooth comb? Do I need to explain that if Jesus was god then his disciples probably weren't disciples by accident? And their writing was probably not done in a vacuum without any influence by god? Even ignoring the idea of god being omnipotent/omniscient and therefore knowing who'd write what ahead of time and being able to select therefore, etc etc, you are stupid
@BigMikeMcBastard You were talking about the quality of the writing, not the actual contents of the text. I realize that Jesus' disciples would have written the bible with some influence from God. I just mean that he probably wouldn't have been telling them to write something in a more clever way, or a clearer way.
@Kakuoteyalu Let's run this into the ground because you don't seem to understand that the content, style, and quality of writing would have been known quantities to an omniscient deity before the book was even written. I do like that you're trying to suggest the creator of the universe didn't have jurisdiction over the writing ability of the disciples though.
@BigMikeMcBastard But I do understand that the content, style and quality of writing in a book would have been known by an omniscient being before it was written, I just don't think he/it would have put that high on his list of priorities. Let someone else, like William Shakespeare, be a better writer than himself. It's not a terribly important trait that his teachings be written beautifully.
@BigMikeMcBastard your problem is that you are too smart, and intelligence isn't something that religious fundamentlists value. In fact, they fear education. Just bring up to a Christian the fact that humans were on earth 1.4 million years before Adam and Eve were "created," and watch them squirm as they try to figure it out. I like your comments here. Thanks!
@BigMikeMcBastard Education, or lack thereof, went hand in hand with whether voters in California supported or rejected gay marriage. It was no surprise to me that the people who voted for Prop 8 were mostly uneducated religious people. Why do you think Christians pull their kids out of public schools in order to indoctrinate them into their "faith?" It's because they fear real knowledge and what real science teaches us. They think if kids learn the truth, they'll reject god.
@kelljoann ~ you're welcome, they come from 'the quotable atheist" by jack huberman. hundreds of quotes from famous people throughout history on religion.
one of my favorites is this gem from Lao Tse, a chinese philosopher and founder of taoism. (slightly adjusted for monotheism) "if lightning is the anger of god, then god is mostly concerned with trees."
no im not repeating what theology says its common sense are you in anyway force to believe in anything??? No..... so there's were freewill come in at anyway that's neither here nor there nor do i care to prove u wrong all im saying read it for yourself and i pray u get some understanding.....
@MissBlovinChrist Hey there, Free will is never mentioned in the bible. Actually you can get a LOT of verses about the "elect" and such. And it's not as easy as saying common sense explains it all. You'll see, no one can possibly be literally sure that their decisions aren't the direct result of an amount of factors that defined the person even before the person in question actually had the chance.
God knew man would fail still he put the tree there, who is to blame the allow er or the allowed
anywho i don't care to go back in forth with you on the matter ima just pray you read the Bible urself in n get all the understanding you need god bless u in i say that with all sincerity
God never created man to betray him dat's a decision dat we all chose he gave us freewill either u serve him or u dont its your choice and i dont have any problem with given my last to those in need i hold nothing such as money or material things of vaule and not judging clearly saying whats in the Bible what i dont get is how u can pick bits out the Bible to accommodate ur life but disgard the rest!??? why pick it up in the first place
@MissBlovinChrist it is a sin for women to speak... shhhhhhhhhhhhh...... anyway how do u ask us to read the bible but you dont even know where does "freewill" came from. where in the Scriptures talk about "freewill"? you just repeating what a theoogian says.
god didn't make anyone gay thats what ppl choose he say many times in the Bible that it's an abomination plain in clear either you choose to follow his teachings it's up too u but when u spend eternity in hell u know ahead of time he never accepted gays why should u be an exception?
I have a question 4 U, let's say God is almighty and all knowing and LOVE as the bible clearly states, why would he create a race that he knew would betray him and then condemn it to eternal punishment? Does it seem fair? Loving?
And ok, so your taking it literally then go sell all you've got and help the needed! Go preach to India and stop judging who goes to hell, you aren't God, and if feel you can than your are just as Lucifer.
The concept of sexual orientation didn't arise until the second half of the 19th century. Until then, acts could be homosexual, but people weren't thought of as homosexual (or bisexual, or heterosexual). So, it's anachronistic to interpret the Bible as saying anything about sexual orientation.
Also, I don't think that religion in particular makes people homophobic. I think it's larger trends of rigid gender roles, resistance to change, and the desire to have a group to look down on.
Just look at how Christianity was used during the Civil Rights era. Segregationists used religion to support segregation, while religion served as an inspiration to many who fought for civil rights. Religious texts are open to endless interpretation, and aren't inherently good or bad.
It's foolish to take Leviticus out of its historical context. The dietary rules probably come from the idea that life is sacred. Blood, which represents life, must be returned to God. Also, the number of species that can be eaten is strictly limited, and animals must be killed as painlessly as possible. Plus, these rules only apply to Jews, not humanity at large!
I am bisexual and an atheist. I promise that it's possible to be disgusted by some Bible passages without mocking Jews and Judaism.
it doesnt change anything if it is in the bible or not. if it would be in the bible but in the book of joe smith, all gay hating fundamentalists will become mormons. its not religion that is the bad. its corruption. those people are so corrupted it makes me sick. THEY SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH NOT US!!
This is the NEW testament ok-------------1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes norHOMOSEXUAL OFFENDORS nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
@cuntrycraze Exactly we ALL fall short of the glory of God thats why Jesus was sent so his blameless life would be accepted over our sinful ways. If you can say you are perfect and this will get you to heaven good luck to you, but i know your not. Salvation is a free gift for those who accept it. We all have our problems yet a church focuses on certain sins and groups. We are saved by grace not by works or legalism
@cuntrycraze 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 does not refer to homosexuals in general. In fact, the original text does not contain the word homosexual. This verse refers to two roles; the "eromenos" (effeminate) is a young boy, and the "eraste" (incorrectly translated as homosexual) is an older man. In ancient Greek culture it was common for an older man to engage in sexual relations with a young boy as part of the boys education. This verse of the Bible is denouncing that cultural practice.
", what the hell..? even in this century there are people who are discriminating other people..? who are they to say that the fucking Bible tells this and that..? they are just getting those fucking retarded passages from a fucking book to justify their FUCKING TWISTED MINDS..!
", the song is just creepy, why make a child sing it..? it sounds like it is a song for a horror movie, like the "Horror in Elk Street" or something like that..!
As a Roman Catholic, I Truly Believe that Jesus was very FUNNY while here on earth. After all, Jews are the best comedians. I don't know who took all of His funny lines out of the New Testament BUT but I'd wager it was some dour Lutheran in the1700's. I belief the real Jesus, Who was not entirely documented in the Bible, used laughter to attract all the people to Him. Remember the wedding when He changed water into wine - BEHOLD THE AWESOMENESS!!!!
GOD IS LOVE & NOT HATE, WE ARE ALL MADE IN GODS IMAGE, GOOD & BAD, GAY & STRAIGHT, GOD EVEN MADE SATAN HIS MOST PERFECT ANGEL. YESHUA or jesus as fools call him, commands that you all LOVE each other, he did not command you to pass Judgement and/or Hate each other, just to LOVE, PURE LOVE, I am a Christian and LOVE STRAIGHT & GAYS EQUALLY AS MY LORD YESHUA COMMANDS ME. I EVEN LOVE FOOLISH FOLKS LIKE YOU. MANY BLESSING TO YOU, YOU'LL NEED THEM IN YOUR DAY OF JUDGEMENT, I hope we see you there!
I don'r believe when people say that homosexcuality is a choice. If it was a choice, don't you believe gays would want to get through all this horrible pain. Caused by people all around the world.
@MrSoxSiders Exactly. It's agroup of people who has a way of thinking and and move billions of people telling what THEY BELIEVE about GOD. something is what God says and other thing is what people say in the name of God. you are right men. They creat fear in people to get the control of them. Chrisitna church killed people in the past in the name of God.
Religion is the cause of a majority of the world's problems. Banning it is not the answer... education is. Though the indoctrination of children SHOULD be banned, as it is obviously child abuse. Without religion the world would be a much better place.
The Bible has been "misused"?! This is a misguided way of looking things that will cause many problems for many years. The Bible is fundamentally wrong on certain social issues, and until we accept this as reasonable humans, we can make no true and lasting progress.
God doesn't hate homosexuals God hates sin. If a "Christian" says they hate homosexuals then they are a hypocrite.. "Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him." 1 John 3:15. A true Christian would let a homosexual know that they don't agree with homosexuality and do consider it a sin but would not condemn and hate the person. It's sad that only fake hypocritical religious people represent Christianity in America
@mroche1991 The Bible explicitly says to kill all Homosexuals. You can't have it both ways. "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
It also says to kill all blasphemers, anyone who doesn't agree with the verdict of a judge or a priest, any women who are not virgins on their wedding day, the entire town of anyone caught worshiping another god.... the bible is pretty evil
@mroche1991 God doesn't hate. Period. I also find it impossible to believe homosexuality is a sin. How could God have made a person that way, and then say he's a sinner for it? Many homosexuals are Christians too.
@marcotnp neighbor and enemies are also put there. so i love homosexuality but i think it's wrong and not cus i believe in god neither. I don't care if it's not a choice you don't have to act upon it. I see that i sound stupid but my opinion, still love homosexuals.
@marcotnp Please provide a biblical or theological basis for claiming that homosexuality disqualifies anyone from being a person or being loved. It's not in the bible, people are just assholes. People are assholes and the entire bible is proof.
Why create sin in the first place? Why create something which to hate? These are not problematic questions if we dare to see the truth, and that is that religion is man-made and our own prejudices are involved.
@notessimodude Christianity isn't a lie. Maybe the people that lead Christianity or the Christians you have known misrepresent Christianity and make wrong assumptions about the Bible. For me, "Christianity" is a relationship with Jesus, and an acknowledgement that "boy do I screw up sometimes and I need GOD because he saves me." I'm sorry that people have misrepresented Christianity to you; I know a lot of Christians make us look bad. But the gospels have huge historical validity (this isn't a
@dinoloveskitty God has NEVER done ANYTHING for ANYBODY. He's a dictator worse than Hitler himself, and you're his slave. But you honestly don't think you believe that because you know that's irrational, so you sugarcoat your beliefs.
@dinoloveskitty Think about it, the Bible itself says God condones slavery, rape, genocide, homicide, sexism, racism, murder, infanticide, and many more. God is not perfect, he's worse than the people who wrote the Bible, evil and primitive authority figures.
@notessimodude Not everything in the Bible is meant to be taken literally, and not everything in the Old Testament is meant to apply to today and how we view things.
But I don't want to spark a debate on the Bible on youtube, or seem like I'm trying to force my views, so I'll just say I respectfully disagree.
@dinoloveskitty Who are you to universely interpret the Bible's analogies? If you can pick and choose which are metaphorical and which are literal, then I choose to say that Moses parting the Red Sea was figurative. Your views, even if you don't see them this way, are very hypocritical. I know you think you don't believe they are, but that's because your friends, prophets, and family sugarcoat them.
@notessimodude point just made by Christians, but by non-Christian researchers too!) It's too much to explain in a youtube comment, but I just wanted to say, maybe a lot of Christians screw things up and don't follow Jesus right, but it's hard to say what we believe is just lies. The books "More than a carpenter" and "letters from a skeptic" talk a lot about this stuff, just if you are ever interested (It's not just for Christians, but non-believers too!) I don't mean to shove my beliefs though.
@dinoloveskitty God is not perfect. In fact, in many instances, he's worse than Hitler. Your belief purposely ignores the downsides, and WBC purposely ignores some of the upsides.
@HorrorIllogium You're absolutely right! Homosexuals are human beings. Unfortunately, every human being, whether straight or not, is a sinner.
But God hates the sin, not the sinner. Why is our religion an "immoral abomination"?
Just because people proclaim they are Christians does not mean that they are. If what they're doing is not in line with what God commands (e.g. love your neighbour), then, I'd question their faith. But don't judge an entire religion based on the actions of a few sinners!
@mushyeyes I think the trouble is that religion offers a catch all response to all disagreement or incongruent ideas. If someone is truly committed to such ideas it is possible to completely ignore and reject any argument that goes against one's strongly held beliefs.
Unassailable beliefs are the sanctuary of irrational hatred and unreasonable discrimination.
Just because Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin doesn't mean that all Christians HATE homosexuals. "The clash between religion and homosexuality" is not even a matter of rights, its a matter of people do not like being told when sin is sin. If you don't believe in sin then go ahead and live your life but don't be surprised if you end up in hell. If there's no afterlife then the worst that can happen is your life was spent following a lie. Who cares? You'll be dead; end of debate lol.
HAHAHAHAHA OmG that is hilarious! I love how the creators of this crap movie lump all of Christianity together under the banner of the homosexual-hating extremists! Are the creators "Americans?" If so should we lump them with the KKK or the Native American killing settlers of this country?? I'm sure they would love to be typecast by the worst reflections of a group they belong to as well.
@Dogsneedpleasuretoo Thats where I believe you're being dogmatic. Logically, I'm making people to which I've personally known to identify themselves as such for a number of years and eventually disregard it and have heterosexual relationship. Although fluid sexuality tend to be more common in women, however I'm not going to presume that these individuals are still homosexual. My point is, biology isn't a sole factor assuming that its a factor at all and it wouldn't change biblical theology
@mistersMsMonica Also, considering that suicide rates for LGBT teens are 7 times higher than the general population, with rates for LGBT adults even higher, is it really hard to imagine that someone would lie to conceal their identity, even after being out for years? As a (presumably) straight person, this is hardly something you could understand, but it's something that I encounter all too often.
@Dogsneedpleasuretoo Excellent points you brought up. I'm still curious as to how one with a different view of morality can sit and deny others with different views something that they are currently fighting for and still incredulosity doesn't see the hypocrisy in that?! If the gender prerequisites can be altered to accommodate one class why can't the same apply to people either numerically or familial?
@Dogsneedpleasuretoo Although that scenario is a hypothesis contrary to fact, I'm fairly certain that that would be illegal. Men are often charged with rape if their partner did not specifically consent verbally (or, for the deaf or mute, through some other form of language). If you can find a legal case in which body language was used to prove consent to sex, your argument would hold more weight.
@Dogsneedpleasuretoo Legally, that explanation doesn't hold up. I can confirm that my body language has a certain meaning, but how can animals do the same? Aren't your interpretations of an animal's body language based on your anthropomorphization of the animal in question?
@Dogsneedpleasuretoo That's a strawman argument. I never stated that I think that eating animals or the domestication of animals is morally right. And no, I have never seen a dog "[consent] to get a blow job", nor do I ever want to. But please, do tell me how is nonverbal consent possible?
Why do we who believe that being homosexal is wrong have to have a phobia, I believe that many other things that people do is wrong so do I have a phobia against them also. Please stop try to use the Bible to justify your being homosexal. The Bible calls it an abomination. Gopd hates no person he hates sin homosexallity is sin he hates it no way around that. Sin is sin no matter what it is. We have all sinned and fall short of His glory, but we must repent to be for given. Stop lying on God.
@helivsinme It's called homophobia because your fear/hatred of gay people is completely irrational. The Bible also says that eating shellfish is an abomination and that people who work on Sundays should be killed, but you aren't condemning people who like to eat at Red Lobster or work on the sabbath, are you? You're picking and choosing Bible verses based on your preconceived notions of who it is socially acceptable to hate.
@incredulosity Why do you people love to go to those samr things, but its ok you hav nothing else to use. So let me say this, yes it dose say that for those people for that time. Its called an abonination in the odl and new testament strange none of those are mention in the new testament, as amatter of fact he told Peter its not what gose into a man but every the words that come out, Jesus discussed working on the sabbath. Sin is sin. Same sex can't have kids that makes it wrong.
@helivsinme 1) Actually, it's not called an abomination in the New Testament. Paul wrote in his epistle that gay sex was 'unnatural', which he ALSO said about men with long hair. It seems to me that old Paul's sense of naturalness wasn't very keen in the first place. 2) So are you equally opposed to all other forms of non-reproductive sex? Is oral sex wrong forstraight people? Is it a sin for an infertile or elderly couple to have sex? Are birth control pills and condoms evil?
@helivsinme The bible also says (in both the new and old testaments) that slavery is morally acceptable, that children who disobey their parents should be publicly executed, and that women should be subjugated in their homes and churches. Do you find these teachings to be applicable in today's society? And if not, why is it that you are willing to use a literal interpretation of the bible when it comes to homosexuality but not these issues?
@incredulosity The New Testament doesn't say that slavery is morally acceptable simply because the NT has no vested interest in the preservation of slavery, it does however have a vested interest in adhering to the man and woman sex ethics.
Also, when it comes to the sex ethics, there is an adherence to the literal interpretation of the text, not only concerning homosexuality, but fornication, adultery, incest and bestiality, all of which are still applicable.
@Samc023 Here's a quote from the NT: "Slaves, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ" (Ephesians 6:5-9) If slavery wasn't considered morally acceptable by Paul, he would have condemned it, but instead he condoned it. And quotes such as this one were used for centuries to justify the enslavement of African peoples, just as Paul's mention of gay sex has been used to justify heterosupremacy.
@incredulosity Yet Ephesians isn't saying that slavery is morally acceptable as you claim. Paul is only exhorting slaves to be obedient since disobedience could incur death, he also seems to be acknowledging a pre-existing social institution.
You seem to forget that slavery in biblical times wasn't about skin color, it had more to do with social standing. Also slavery in Biblical times was remarkably different from the slavery that we know.
@Samc023 The fact that slavery was a "pre-existing social institution" is irrelevant. Gay sex was also a cultural norm at the time, but Paul didn't have any trouble condemning that. So explain to me why, instead of denouncing slavery as a moral evil, he encouraged slaves to stay subservient to people who violently mistreated them?
@incredulosity The pre-existence of slavery isn't irrelevant, especially since you're claiming that the NT explicitly states that its morally acceptable, which actually isn't true. You also presume that mistreatment was inherent to being subservient, while conveniently ignoring the fact that people for the most part willfully subjected themselves to slavery for a number of reasons and that biblical slavery is different from the slavery that we know of.
@Samc023 1) The OT states that it's acceptable, Sam. The NT could have cleared this up, but it didn't. 2) If they weren't subservient, please explain why the murder, abuse and rape of slaves was either condoned by god or not condemned. Obviously there were bad conditions for some slaves, which is why some ran away. Apparently that didn't matter to Paul though, because he actually returned a runaway slave to his master!
@Samc023 1) I never said that slavery during Biblical times was associated with skin color, I stated that the Biblical verses condoning slavery in the OT and NT were used to justify the Transatlantic Alve Trade and other humans rights violations. 2) I'm perfectly aware of that, and I find both forms of slavery to be despicable. Are you suggesting that depriving someone of basic freedoms is ever justifiable?
@incredulosity While you never associated slavery with skin color, you incidentally brought up the subject when you referenced African enslavement, which to me seems like a red herring, but I digress. If you're going to purposely ignore the historical understanding regarding slavey to bolster your argument, you might as well cease talking about the subject, especially if you're going to sit up and ask me whether or not its justifiable.
@Samc023 Again, the extent to which slaves have been abused in different historical situations is not the issue at hand. The issue is the justification of a practice that inherently takes away rights from some humans for the benefits of others. And before you go off about some people allowing themselves to be taken as slaves, remember that many slaves at that time were POWs taken from war or otherwise taken against their will.
@Samc023 Following your line of reasoning (ie, any Biblical commandment related to sex must be interpreted literally), this verse about sex ethics should also be applied literally: "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman [...] he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her" (Deuteronomy 22:28-29). Tell me Sam, is this literal interpretation applicable in our society?
@incredulosity "your fear/hatred of gay people is completely irrational"
I'm curious as to how you define irrational? Does merely disagreeing with homosexuality make one irrational? I believe that a person can be against something without fearing or hating it. Like I said, many who adhere to the literal interpretation of scripture may also feel the same exact way for other sex prohibition, which conveniently not many seem to recognize.
@Samc023 I agree that someone can be justified in their fear and/or hatred of something, but homophobia is never a rational belief. To use your example of so-called "sex prohibitions" in the Bible, there are extrabiblical explanations of why adultery, bestiality and incest are harmful. For example, bestiality is harmful because animals cannot consent to sex. But there are no extrabiblical reasons to suggest that being gay is pernicious.
@incredulosity So since an animal can not consent that makes it harmful? Consent intrinsically negates something from being harmful? I'm not really understanding that. You say that there are extra-biblical explanations as to why incest, bestiality and adultery is wrong, please, show me where these are? Also Deuteronomy wouldn't be applicable considering the fact that this part of the law was given specifically for the Nation of Israel, I do give you credit for using that selected text.
@Samc023 Perhaps 'harmful' was not the right word because it can be interpreted in different ways. To explain it more clearly, bestiality and incest are against the law because in the US our laws generally state that sex must be between consenting adults, and that the sex must not harm any uninvolved parties. Bestiality obviously does not meet this standard, neither does incest. I find it sad that you can't understand why these things are wrong without a fictional book to tell you they are.
@incredulosity Perhaps you should cease with the condescending rhetoric in order for this discussion to remain civil. Its also interesting how you rule out incest as if, a.) It can't be consensual and b.) that it can technically not hurt anyone if its consensual and depending on other circumstances. Also, you seem to be ignoring the fact that we are discussing sex ethics from a theological viewpoint, ergo adultery is still wrong whether all parties consent or not.
@Samc023 I never said that it can't be consensual, and it it harmful to third parties (and the ones involved) considering the high rate of birth defects from incestuous couples and the underlying psychological issues that cause incest and foster unhealthy relationships.
@incredulosity So you're going to use the "birth defect" ploy? very well, how about
incestuous homosexual couplings or incestuous couplings who happen to be sterile? Its interesting how conservative you become when it concerns YOUR preferences, but when it comes to others, its suddenly a double standard.
@Samc023 You didn't read all of my comment, I see. I purposefully mentioned the underlying psychological trauma that causes and is continued by incestuous relationships. Consensual incest is not natural, nor is it healthy. How is this a double standard? Being gay is healthy, normal and naturally occurring. Acceptance of homosexuality has nothing to do with liberalness or conservativeness, but rather an acceptance of fact.
@incredulosity hen perhaps maybe you should focus on ONE point. As far as psychological trauma in connection to incest, well thats not inherently the rule and if its consenting adults then in actuality thats irrelevant. There are those that don't agree with your views in connection to both homosexuality being healthy and natural and incest not being natural. In actuality you ought to be supporting those that do desire and not have a double standard.
@Samc023 There's nothing to argue about when it comes to naturalness. Homosexuality can be found in nature and it occurs naturally in humans. This is simply not a source of dispute; to disagree with this point would be a demonstration of ignorance regarding the topic. Again, no double standard. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation just like heterosexuality. It is innate and healthy. Incest is not an orientation, and in adult family members it is the result of separation during childhood.
@incredulosity The fact that something can be found in nature doesn't inherently make it natural in connection to humans. There are many things that occur in nature that humans wouldn't partake in. A person’s sexual orientation is defined by the focus of his or her sexual interest, technically there can be many "orientations" so to speak.
@Samc023 Your definition of sexual orientation is just plain wrong. "Sexual orientation is a term used to refer to a person's emotional, romantic, and sexual attraction to individuals of a particular gender" (WebMD).
@incredulosity If I may, Samc023 has a point. You need to decide from which angle you're going to approach this, either theological or extrabiblical, from the looks of this discussion, you're jumping from pillar to post. When you asked why bible believers don't use literal interpretation of other prohibition you switched gears when it was shown that that wasn't the case. Add to the fact that you purposely used a scripture that was connected to the mosaic law, which isn't binding under christ
@mistersMsMonica I did not switch gears because I argued that it was NEVER morally okay to follow a literal interpretation of the rape laws in the Bible, regardless of what time period it occurred in, while he argued that the laws only applied to the Hebrews of the Old Testament.
@mistersMsMonica I also disgree with the idea that I must choose either a theological or secular view of the Bible. I can advocate both, because the Bible is not some stagnant text that has no relationship to the world outside of its pages. As one of the interviewees in the documentary said, our interpretations of the Bible vary widely based on our personal experiences. And for many, logic and other ways of knowing from outside the Bible them towards a nonliteral reading.
@incredulosity While personal experiences my give rise to different interpretations, some things are simply clear cut. While no one has said you can't advocate a secular and theological view, you shouldn't attempt to use them interchangeably when one approach fails.
@mistersMsMonica I think you're misinterpreting my approach. As I explained before, my method never "failed", because Sam never explained why it was once moral to force women to marry their rapists. I may have based the argument on erroneous knowledge of the passage, but the overarching point still stands true.
@incredulosity I'm just curious as to how you've come to the belief that homosexuality is healthy and normal? what is so healthy about it? Overall I could care less about how a person lives their life, however I am curious as to how homosexuality is healthy.
@mistersMsMonica As pair bonding has evolved in humans, falling in love and living with one's partner has become an integral and satisfiying part of the human experiences that leads to a longer and happier life. In this way, a person's sexual orientation (be it gay or straight) is very healthy. On the question of normalcy, all you need to do is consult any major psychological association. There is a consensus that homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is a normal variance in human sexuality.
@incredulosity Even if incest isn't an orientation it would change nothing. By that rationale a bisexual should be allowed to wed both a man and woman since now, you're limiting things to official "orientations". One minute you're saying that pair bonding and falling in love are normal aspects of life, which I will agree is true, however your double standard comes into play the moment you limit others based on familial and/or numerical value. "Love" then takes a backseat, double standard.
@Samc023 People in incestuous relationships can fall in love outside of their family. And this should be encouraged, considering the health risks to themselves and others. The same is not true for homosexuality, bisexuality or heterosexuality (and by the way, incestuous people fall into one of these categories). Gay, straight and bisexual relationships between consenting, nonrelated adults are not harmful to anyone, and therefore should be allowed.
@incredulosity Any type of sexual intimacy can be harmful, be it gay or straight as well as incestuous unions, however thats neither here nor there. Again, you have a double standard when it comes to love and consent, the same motif pro-gay advocates peddle, yet for some, its only in regards to THEIR particular wants. Ironically, you don't even see the hypocrisy of your own views.
@incredulosity what psychological association should one consult concerning the normalcy of homosexuality? Again, what makes it as normal as heterosexuality? its not even been proven to be innate.
@Samc023 There is a consensus among secular psychological associations. Try reading the APA's FAQ on sexual orientation for a more nuanced treatment than can be provided via YouTube comments.
@incredulosity Ah yes! appeal to the APA's definition, which suffice to say doesn't really mean much since its been well established and documented that gay activism prompted the APA to remove homosexuality from their list of mental disorders. It had little if any to do with actual research. Therefore you're welcome to appeal to youtube science of the APA, but it really wouldn't mean much.
@Samc023 There was no evidence to suggest that homosexuality was a mental illness in the first place, which was why it was removed from the DSM. The onus of proof is on those who claim homosexuality is an illness, and they have yet to produce evidence. You may want to note that the APA is not alone; organizations worldwide have removed homosexuality from their list of mental illnesses.
@Samc023 Actually, the physical differences in the anatomy of the gay and straight brain is fairly well documented, as are studies showing that hormones produced by the mother during gestation lead to a gay child. On the other hand, almost all "nurture" theories about homosexuality (absent father theory, sexual abuse theory, etc.) have been proven false.
@incredulosity Also you seem to be confusing "evidence" and "studies" as undisputed fact that homosexuality is 100% innate. Much of the so-called research gay advocates attempt to use, is based on skewed science. Also it would be deluded to disregard the commonality that sexual abuse can and many times do play a role in homosexuality. Many gays will admit to being sexually abused as children, yet somehow believe its "incidental" to them leaning towards the same gender, which I find quite odd.
@Samc023 It is incidental; sexual abuse does not affect a child's chances of growing up gay, straight or bisexual. More importantly, if you want to make the claim that studies showing the difference between gay and straight brains, please post evidence refuting the claims made. Simply saying that it's based in "skewed science" doesn't work.
@incredulosity Sorry, but the burden of posting evidence is yours, afterall, you're the one claiming homosexuality is innate despite the lack of science to verify it, and you are the one pushing a social agenda, not I. However I can see you never denied that the APA's ruling had nothing to do with science, but politics. Its also odd how you ignore the commonalities of child abuse, however I could care less if you believe me.
@Samc023 1) How is there "a lack of science" to verify my claims? I did cite a number of different studies (which is by NO means a comprehensive list), all you have to do is some basic google searching (the entire contents of this research is much more than can be provided in a Youttube comment). 2) I ignored neither. The fact is that without evidence that something is a mental illness, it cannot be included in the DSM. No evidence that homosexuality is an illness = removed from DSM.
@incredulosity What different studies did you cite? I must have missed those. I've done basic google research and guess what? there is nothing conclusive that proves your claim.
@Samc023 How casually you speak of the burden of providing evidence when you have yet to do so yourself. You say things like "many gay men experience such and such as children..." or "it is known that the APA has x, y and z political motives," without anything supporting these claims. It is completely inappropriate to make statements of this nature unless they are backed up with solid fact.
@incredulosity Of course I can casually say the burden of proof lies with you, afterall it is you making such a claim. Dr. Charles Socarides even explains it in Sexual Politics and Scientific Logic: Many pro-gay researchers, activists and theorists deny that there could be a connection between child sexual abuse and adult homosexuality. Authors from a book entitled Unequal Opportunity write about some of the outcomes associated with childhood sexual abuse.
@incredulosity There is something else you should consider. That biology alone may not just be the only factor in why someone is homosexual. There is evidence in alcoholism being rooted in biology, that doesn't mean one is always destined to be an alcoholic. Then of course I've known some individuals who were homosexuals and left it behind for various reasons. The common rule is that no one can change or alter their orientation, however it is rather fluid.
if you are going to ignore even one part of the bible, you might as well ignore the whole thing. i could tell it was ass-backwards bullshit when i was 13 and that hasn't changed.
MrJumbolegz 1 month ago 2
Why are people using this video to bash Christianity? Christianity isn't the problem here, bigotry is. Not all Christians are bigots and as Christians, we all believe that God is merciful and loving. We should all believe that people are equal and love can be shared between any two people. If people say anything about God, it at least shouldn't be anything hateful. Bigots can be found anywhere in the world and it's a misconception that they're all Christians. Geez, learn love and respect.
GlassKills 1 month ago 3
Check out RIMTV1 a church serving the LGBTQUIA community and all believers of Christ. God Bless
RIMTV1 1 month ago in playlist LGBT - Religion
People need to realize this: Just because the Bible says it, doesn't mean it should be followed. Just because it's against biblical laws doesn't mean we should condemn it. Just because someone says God has a problem with it, doesn't mean He actually does.
jlopez412 1 month ago
It's sad what people do with the Bible: a book of love used to support their hearts full of hate. I'm a christian and I condemn sin but I will absolutely not condemn any human being or disrespect anyone because of they're lifestyle.
Wevitox87 1 month ago
I hope everyone who doubts the Lord remembers these comments when they have to face Him
thechad2658 3 months ago
@thechad2658 Cool story bro
danlbg 2 months ago
Whatever your name is, the bible is full of outmoded demented cultural shit that some idiots still practice, in tents in the Sahara. The bible, koran and Torah are all the same- the opinions of retards who claim to have inspiration from god. And by the way, don't respond till thou hast learnt english properly, idiot.
danlbg 5 months ago 2
God is not. ;)
Xetrus 5 months ago
The Bible is a book full of myth & lies and God does not exist. Now can we all get on and enjoy life.
poppytait 5 months ago
This movie is available streaming on Netflix. It is wonderful and helped me overcome some of my fear that God would be mad at me for supporting equality. Love conquers all including fear. You don't have to be afraid to support love.
MarionRavenwood 6 months ago
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@iamawesome1001 I totally agree, I'm Christian too, and there are much more important things that people should worry about!
thequietoneattheback 6 months ago
i am a catholic myself but i truly believe that GOD loves everybody
answer me this- why would a person choose to be gay
choosing to be gay mean choosing to become an outcast from society
it means choosing to be bullied and ridiculed almost everywhere you go
it means choosing being denied basic human rights
i dont understand why a person would choose to be gay
being gay is just a trait someone is born with
it doesn't make you more or less of a bad person it doesnt define you
iamawesome1001 6 months ago 31
@iamawesome1001 I am seriously hoping that you are trolling right now. No one CHOOSES to be gay! Not only is that ignorant, but you have no evidence to back that up! Did you choose to be straight? In other words, was there a point in your life when you had gay and straight thoughts, and you chose to be straight? If not, how can you say thats true for anyone? Please don't spread this hate.
rachmaninov913 6 days ago
@rachmaninov913 I don't think you read @iamawesome1001 's comment very closely.
He is arguing that nobody would choose to be gay and that people are born with that trait.
murrth 1 day ago
wow this brought tears to my eyes this will be a riveting documentary im almost sure of it!
MLPeebles27 6 months ago
I'm a bisexual catholic female...and god as given me nothing but happiness
crisis101able 7 months ago 2
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Being a Gay is not a SIN! :)
petiteAlicious 7 months ago
when it comes down to it, we all should just love each other. our sick capitalist country thats culture is christian based is disgusting. i can't believe people can live with so much hate. open up your eyes. a life and world of love and acceptance will bring you so much more happiness than one closed by belief and control.
woahhthere09 7 months ago
@tgillspy1 you have to be kidding. ANYONE who does ANYTHING sexual can be at risk for a disease..... and no sex act has EVER been scientifically proven as unhealthy...... (just because gay men have anal sex does not make them unhealthy....) LOL you need to open up your close minded little head you've got wrapped all up in religion and live a real life
woahhthere09 7 months ago
@tgillspy1
Now tell me something.. If God "cannot look upon or tolerate the behavior" of Homosexuals, why would he create them? You have no idea how many times a day I wish that I could decide my sexual orientation. Frankly, I don't like being hated, lectured, and even taunted for something I have NO control over. All throughout High School I was forced to hide who I truly am because not only was I part of an Athletic team, but also because I was so afraid of what my Catholic family would say.
AirwaveXReverie 7 months ago
@tgillspy1 If you're right, God made a mistake making me gay. Not years of confession & repentance & crying & persecution, growing up in your "loving" religion, changed that. Oh well.
What freed me beyond all doubt was the fundamental in your own religion that you shit upon: "Love does no harm to a neighbor, therefore Love is the fulfilling of the law." You can spout all your "fundamentalist:" religion minus the fundamental, and I'll take the fundamental, minus your "fundamentalism".
zerocurrency 7 months ago
@tgillspy1
Looks like people are still dying.How did he die for us? If I hit myself in the foot with a shovel will it fix someone else's mortgage? And why invent homosexuality? Is there no quality control in the God factory?
Hirnlego999 7 months ago
For The Quran Tells Me So: I'll slit people's throat, slam planes into buildings, make women 2nd class citizens and marry 4 of them, and live by SHARIA!
....see how it can go both ways?
charms71 8 months ago
you realli fink because the bible and you christian finks its wrong,im going to stop being gay ??? i fuck wat u fink and gonna live my live,you keep on hating
Orphara 8 months ago
No wonder the world goes straight to hell. Religion must die for us to survive.
ingareinar007 8 months ago
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burn in hell forever or believe in Jesus
fuckmania07 8 months ago
Google: TEACHINGS OF THE ECOKOSHER REBBE - HOMOSEXUALITY & THE HEBREW BIBLE
MIJVI 9 months ago
Conformity at it's finest. I just wrote a paper on this.
rennyjc 9 months ago
Idiot woman, we already have civil rights for prostitutes and thieves, they have the right to a fair trial, a right to a lawyer, etc.
guydudeasian 10 months ago
How is telling someone that they are wrong, unloving? What is love? Tolerance?
I believe the supposed "Christians"who think gays should die are obviously not following the teachings of Jesus and should be ignored as the prime example for all Christians.
God calls us to love. And love does not mean let everyone do whatever the heck they want.
DanPrinMan 10 months ago
@DanPrinMan Love is correction. Say that to a soul rotting in the lake of fire for eternity. They will tell you THEN that love is correction not tolerance.
psycofloyd 5 months ago
@psycofloyd
OK...
DanPrinMan 5 months ago
Two things I always found interesting about the bible: First, that there's no mention at all of our extinct cousins, the Neanderthals, who buried their dead and worshiped their own gods and suspiciously were not mentioned at all in the story of creation.
Second, that Shakespeare is a better writer than God. I mean, c'mon now, anyone who's read the bible... did that read like it was written by a god, or at its behest? Was that really the best the creator of the universe could do?
BigMikeMcBastard 11 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard The bible wasn't written by God. It was written by his disciples, or so it is believed. Don't be an idiot.
Kakuoteyalu 11 months ago
@Kakuoteyalu I'm the idiot when you're the one who can't even grasp such a basic point. Do we really need to go over this with a fine-tooth comb? Do I need to explain that if Jesus was god then his disciples probably weren't disciples by accident? And their writing was probably not done in a vacuum without any influence by god? Even ignoring the idea of god being omnipotent/omniscient and therefore knowing who'd write what ahead of time and being able to select therefore, etc etc, you are stupid
BigMikeMcBastard 11 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard You were talking about the quality of the writing, not the actual contents of the text. I realize that Jesus' disciples would have written the bible with some influence from God. I just mean that he probably wouldn't have been telling them to write something in a more clever way, or a clearer way.
Kakuoteyalu 11 months ago
@Kakuoteyalu Let's run this into the ground because you don't seem to understand that the content, style, and quality of writing would have been known quantities to an omniscient deity before the book was even written. I do like that you're trying to suggest the creator of the universe didn't have jurisdiction over the writing ability of the disciples though.
BigMikeMcBastard 11 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard But I do understand that the content, style and quality of writing in a book would have been known by an omniscient being before it was written, I just don't think he/it would have put that high on his list of priorities. Let someone else, like William Shakespeare, be a better writer than himself. It's not a terribly important trait that his teachings be written beautifully.
Kakuoteyalu 11 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard your problem is that you are too smart, and intelligence isn't something that religious fundamentlists value. In fact, they fear education. Just bring up to a Christian the fact that humans were on earth 1.4 million years before Adam and Eve were "created," and watch them squirm as they try to figure it out. I like your comments here. Thanks!
lisztnut 10 months ago
@BigMikeMcBastard Education, or lack thereof, went hand in hand with whether voters in California supported or rejected gay marriage. It was no surprise to me that the people who voted for Prop 8 were mostly uneducated religious people. Why do you think Christians pull their kids out of public schools in order to indoctrinate them into their "faith?" It's because they fear real knowledge and what real science teaches us. They think if kids learn the truth, they'll reject god.
lisztnut 10 months ago
"sin was invented by the church, and then tries to cure people of the disease they created." - dan barker, preacher turned atheist.
"god is the only being, who in order to reign, doesn't even need to exist". - charles baudelaire.
"you can safely assume that you've created god in your own image when it turns out god hates all the same people you do" - anne lamott
"reason must be destroyed in all christians" - martin luther - jew hating protestant reformer, a favorite of the nazi's.
tomitstube 11 months ago
@tomitstube Great quotes....thanks!
kelljoann 6 months ago
@kelljoann ~ you're welcome, they come from 'the quotable atheist" by jack huberman. hundreds of quotes from famous people throughout history on religion.
one of my favorites is this gem from Lao Tse, a chinese philosopher and founder of taoism. (slightly adjusted for monotheism) "if lightning is the anger of god, then god is mostly concerned with trees."
tomitstube 6 months ago
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amazing doc... i encourage everyone to see it in full.
Diannakw 11 months ago
godhatesshrimp. google it
tboneflock 11 months ago
Christianity, what a great religion. Please God send Back Jesus before christianity destroys the earth.
glower125 11 months ago 17
no im not repeating what theology says its common sense are you in anyway force to believe in anything??? No..... so there's were freewill come in at anyway that's neither here nor there nor do i care to prove u wrong all im saying read it for yourself and i pray u get some understanding.....
MissBlovinChrist 11 months ago
@MissBlovinChrist Hey there, Free will is never mentioned in the bible. Actually you can get a LOT of verses about the "elect" and such. And it's not as easy as saying common sense explains it all. You'll see, no one can possibly be literally sure that their decisions aren't the direct result of an amount of factors that defined the person even before the person in question actually had the chance.
God knew man would fail still he put the tree there, who is to blame the allow er or the allowed
NathanSpellman 11 months ago
anywho i don't care to go back in forth with you on the matter ima just pray you read the Bible urself in n get all the understanding you need god bless u in i say that with all sincerity
MissBlovinChrist 11 months ago
God never created man to betray him dat's a decision dat we all chose he gave us freewill either u serve him or u dont its your choice and i dont have any problem with given my last to those in need i hold nothing such as money or material things of vaule and not judging clearly saying whats in the Bible what i dont get is how u can pick bits out the Bible to accommodate ur life but disgard the rest!??? why pick it up in the first place
MissBlovinChrist 11 months ago
@MissBlovinChrist it is a sin for women to speak... shhhhhhhhhhhhh...... anyway how do u ask us to read the bible but you dont even know where does "freewill" came from. where in the Scriptures talk about "freewill"? you just repeating what a theoogian says.
mariatinaza 11 months ago
The Bible is bullshit, the Koran is a lie, the Bhagavida did not fall from the Sky.
TheThordir 1 year ago
god didn't make anyone gay thats what ppl choose he say many times in the Bible that it's an abomination plain in clear either you choose to follow his teachings it's up too u but when u spend eternity in hell u know ahead of time he never accepted gays why should u be an exception?
MissBlovinChrist 1 year ago
@MissBlovinChrist Have you seen the documentary?
I have a question 4 U, let's say God is almighty and all knowing and LOVE as the bible clearly states, why would he create a race that he knew would betray him and then condemn it to eternal punishment? Does it seem fair? Loving?
And ok, so your taking it literally then go sell all you've got and help the needed! Go preach to India and stop judging who goes to hell, you aren't God, and if feel you can than your are just as Lucifer.
NathanSpellman 11 months ago
nice placement of the singing kid...
Amarynthine 1 year ago
The concept of sexual orientation didn't arise until the second half of the 19th century. Until then, acts could be homosexual, but people weren't thought of as homosexual (or bisexual, or heterosexual). So, it's anachronistic to interpret the Bible as saying anything about sexual orientation.
anemone9 1 year ago
I can't wait to see this movie! God LOVES gays even more than Lady Gaga loves us.
CelebrationofFaith 1 year ago
Also, I don't think that religion in particular makes people homophobic. I think it's larger trends of rigid gender roles, resistance to change, and the desire to have a group to look down on.
Just look at how Christianity was used during the Civil Rights era. Segregationists used religion to support segregation, while religion served as an inspiration to many who fought for civil rights. Religious texts are open to endless interpretation, and aren't inherently good or bad.
anemone9 1 year ago
It's foolish to take Leviticus out of its historical context. The dietary rules probably come from the idea that life is sacred. Blood, which represents life, must be returned to God. Also, the number of species that can be eaten is strictly limited, and animals must be killed as painlessly as possible. Plus, these rules only apply to Jews, not humanity at large!
I am bisexual and an atheist. I promise that it's possible to be disgusted by some Bible passages without mocking Jews and Judaism.
anemone9 1 year ago
atheism ftw
starchmonkey 1 year ago 2
it doesnt change anything if it is in the bible or not. if it would be in the bible but in the book of joe smith, all gay hating fundamentalists will become mormons. its not religion that is the bad. its corruption. those people are so corrupted it makes me sick. THEY SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH NOT US!!
GalliadII 1 year ago
This is the NEW testament ok-------------1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes norHOMOSEXUAL OFFENDORS nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
cuntrycraze 1 year ago
@cuntrycraze Exactly we ALL fall short of the glory of God thats why Jesus was sent so his blameless life would be accepted over our sinful ways. If you can say you are perfect and this will get you to heaven good luck to you, but i know your not. Salvation is a free gift for those who accept it. We all have our problems yet a church focuses on certain sins and groups. We are saved by grace not by works or legalism
justnatural 1 year ago
@cuntrycraze 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 does not refer to homosexuals in general. In fact, the original text does not contain the word homosexual. This verse refers to two roles; the "eromenos" (effeminate) is a young boy, and the "eraste" (incorrectly translated as homosexual) is an older man. In ancient Greek culture it was common for an older man to engage in sexual relations with a young boy as part of the boys education. This verse of the Bible is denouncing that cultural practice.
CelebrationofFaith 1 year ago
God bottom so no personal
shortydeluxxxe 1 year ago
", what the hell..? even in this century there are people who are discriminating other people..? who are they to say that the fucking Bible tells this and that..? they are just getting those fucking retarded passages from a fucking book to justify their FUCKING TWISTED MINDS..!
falutak 1 year ago
", the song is just creepy, why make a child sing it..? it sounds like it is a song for a horror movie, like the "Horror in Elk Street" or something like that..!
falutak 1 year ago
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As a Roman Catholic, I Truly Believe that Jesus was very FUNNY while here on earth. After all, Jews are the best comedians. I don't know who took all of His funny lines out of the New Testament BUT but I'd wager it was some dour Lutheran in the1700's. I belief the real Jesus, Who was not entirely documented in the Bible, used laughter to attract all the people to Him. Remember the wedding when He changed water into wine - BEHOLD THE AWESOMENESS!!!!
heavnnnsent 1 year ago
GOD IS LOVE & NOT HATE, WE ARE ALL MADE IN GODS IMAGE, GOOD & BAD, GAY & STRAIGHT, GOD EVEN MADE SATAN HIS MOST PERFECT ANGEL. YESHUA or jesus as fools call him, commands that you all LOVE each other, he did not command you to pass Judgement and/or Hate each other, just to LOVE, PURE LOVE, I am a Christian and LOVE STRAIGHT & GAYS EQUALLY AS MY LORD YESHUA COMMANDS ME. I EVEN LOVE FOOLISH FOLKS LIKE YOU. MANY BLESSING TO YOU, YOU'LL NEED THEM IN YOUR DAY OF JUDGEMENT, I hope we see you there!
ida1yomomywarnyabout 1 year ago
@mroche1991 - You guess wrong. Most atheists understand the Bible, both the OT AND the NT, better than most Christians. That's why we're atheists :)
Lunarcide 1 year ago
I don'r believe when people say that homosexcuality is a choice. If it was a choice, don't you believe gays would want to get through all this horrible pain. Caused by people all around the world.
Tato687 1 year ago
Exactly why I hate religions, amazing how someone can brainwash billions of people to believe what he wants them to believe.
MrSoxSiders 1 year ago
@MrSoxSiders Exactly. It's agroup of people who has a way of thinking and and move billions of people telling what THEY BELIEVE about GOD. something is what God says and other thing is what people say in the name of God. you are right men. They creat fear in people to get the control of them. Chrisitna church killed people in the past in the name of God.
Tato687 1 year ago
Religion is the cause of a majority of the world's problems. Banning it is not the answer... education is. Though the indoctrination of children SHOULD be banned, as it is obviously child abuse. Without religion the world would be a much better place.
Lunarcide 1 year ago
The Bible has been "misused"?! This is a misguided way of looking things that will cause many problems for many years. The Bible is fundamentally wrong on certain social issues, and until we accept this as reasonable humans, we can make no true and lasting progress.
Nonoyawns 1 year ago
Just so we're clear, there will never be peace on this earth. Doesn't matter if you ban religion or not.
stjamesfan 1 year ago
RELIGION IS FOR RETARDS BAN THE LOT OF IT
PEACE IN THE WORLD THEN
corrie2013 1 year ago 3
@corrie2013 Getting rid of religion will not solve all the problems there are in the world.
BlueEyedBaby1219 1 year ago
@corrie2013 Well said!!!
dale3858 1 year ago
Stupid bible shit- and the Koran and the Torah claim this biased crap as well. Fucking conservatives, can't you get a life?
danlbg 1 year ago 24
@danlbg i fell sorry for you mate lol!!
hermonnw1 8 months ago
@danlbg EXCUSE ME, BUT THE BIBLE HAS THE TRUTHS AND IT'S A BOOK OF LOVE AND PASSIONATE!!!! SHAME ON YOU!!!!
I'm Roman Catholic and that Homosexual things is just a stupid thing to do!!
But that Koran and Torah thing you said might be true.
KakashiSenseiRox2 5 months ago
God doesn't hate homosexuals God hates sin. If a "Christian" says they hate homosexuals then they are a hypocrite.. "Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him." 1 John 3:15. A true Christian would let a homosexual know that they don't agree with homosexuality and do consider it a sin but would not condemn and hate the person. It's sad that only fake hypocritical religious people represent Christianity in America
mroche1991 1 year ago 58
@mroche1991 I 100% agree with you.
babygirllily 1 year ago
@mroche1991 The Bible explicitly says to kill all Homosexuals. You can't have it both ways. "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
It also says to kill all blasphemers, anyone who doesn't agree with the verdict of a judge or a priest, any women who are not virgins on their wedding day, the entire town of anyone caught worshiping another god.... the bible is pretty evil
Lunarcide 1 year ago
@Lunarcide and I'm guessing you don't know the difference between the old and new testament
mroche1991 1 year ago
@mroche1991 God doesn't hate. Period. I also find it impossible to believe homosexuality is a sin. How could God have made a person that way, and then say he's a sinner for it? Many homosexuals are Christians too.
ladyvader139 1 year ago
@mroche1991
The thing I don't understand is that if he doesn't "hate" them, why would he kill them?
It's funny that me, a simple human being, can get over the fact someone is gay, but He can't.
If my daughter was gay, I would say "umm, okay, great! good for you"
I wouldn't say "that's an abomination and you shall surely be put to death."
I would never kill my daughter for being gay.
but God, someone way smarter, powerful, stronger than me will kill someone for that.
kylehindu 1 year ago
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@mroche1991
bullshit, fags should be put to death according to the bible, you are not a brother if you are a fag
Martinez1887 1 year ago
@mroche1991 "Anyone who hates his brother is a murderes"... but homosexuals are not considered brothers for being what they are.
You're probably a good person but bible god is bad... very bad.
marcotnp 9 months ago
@marcotnp neighbor and enemies are also put there. so i love homosexuality but i think it's wrong and not cus i believe in god neither. I don't care if it's not a choice you don't have to act upon it. I see that i sound stupid but my opinion, still love homosexuals.
majinvi74 8 months ago
@marcotnp Please provide a biblical or theological basis for claiming that homosexuality disqualifies anyone from being a person or being loved. It's not in the bible, people are just assholes. People are assholes and the entire bible is proof.
robosextoid 8 months ago
@mroche1991
Why create sin in the first place? Why create something which to hate? These are not problematic questions if we dare to see the truth, and that is that religion is man-made and our own prejudices are involved.
Hirnlego999 7 months ago
@mroche1991 "It's sad that only fake hypocritical religious people represent Christianity in America"
As if there were any other kind.
EntinludeX 7 months ago 2
@mroche1991 It's sad that Christianity is a lie in general.
notessimodude 7 months ago
@notessimodude Christianity isn't a lie. Maybe the people that lead Christianity or the Christians you have known misrepresent Christianity and make wrong assumptions about the Bible. For me, "Christianity" is a relationship with Jesus, and an acknowledgement that "boy do I screw up sometimes and I need GOD because he saves me." I'm sorry that people have misrepresented Christianity to you; I know a lot of Christians make us look bad. But the gospels have huge historical validity (this isn't a
dinoloveskitty 6 months ago
@dinoloveskitty God has NEVER done ANYTHING for ANYBODY. He's a dictator worse than Hitler himself, and you're his slave. But you honestly don't think you believe that because you know that's irrational, so you sugarcoat your beliefs.
notessimodude 5 months ago
@notessimodude Why do you believe he's a dictator? I'm honestly curious.
dinoloveskitty 5 months ago
@dinoloveskitty Think about it, the Bible itself says God condones slavery, rape, genocide, homicide, sexism, racism, murder, infanticide, and many more. God is not perfect, he's worse than the people who wrote the Bible, evil and primitive authority figures.
notessimodude 5 months ago
@notessimodude Not everything in the Bible is meant to be taken literally, and not everything in the Old Testament is meant to apply to today and how we view things.
But I don't want to spark a debate on the Bible on youtube, or seem like I'm trying to force my views, so I'll just say I respectfully disagree.
dinoloveskitty 5 months ago
@dinoloveskitty Who are you to universely interpret the Bible's analogies? If you can pick and choose which are metaphorical and which are literal, then I choose to say that Moses parting the Red Sea was figurative. Your views, even if you don't see them this way, are very hypocritical. I know you think you don't believe they are, but that's because your friends, prophets, and family sugarcoat them.
notessimodude 5 months ago
@notessimodude point just made by Christians, but by non-Christian researchers too!) It's too much to explain in a youtube comment, but I just wanted to say, maybe a lot of Christians screw things up and don't follow Jesus right, but it's hard to say what we believe is just lies. The books "More than a carpenter" and "letters from a skeptic" talk a lot about this stuff, just if you are ever interested (It's not just for Christians, but non-believers too!) I don't mean to shove my beliefs though.
dinoloveskitty 6 months ago
@dinoloveskitty God is not perfect. In fact, in many instances, he's worse than Hitler. Your belief purposely ignores the downsides, and WBC purposely ignores some of the upsides.
notessimodude 5 months ago
@mroche1991 Your preachments are evil. Homosexuals are not sinners, they are human beings. Your religion is an immoral abomination.
HorrorIllogium 4 months ago
@HorrorIllogium You're absolutely right! Homosexuals are human beings. Unfortunately, every human being, whether straight or not, is a sinner.
But God hates the sin, not the sinner. Why is our religion an "immoral abomination"?
Just because people proclaim they are Christians does not mean that they are. If what they're doing is not in line with what God commands (e.g. love your neighbour), then, I'd question their faith. But don't judge an entire religion based on the actions of a few sinners!
mushyeyes 4 months ago
@mushyeyes I think the trouble is that religion offers a catch all response to all disagreement or incongruent ideas. If someone is truly committed to such ideas it is possible to completely ignore and reject any argument that goes against one's strongly held beliefs.
Unassailable beliefs are the sanctuary of irrational hatred and unreasonable discrimination.
murrth 1 day ago
Just because Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin doesn't mean that all Christians HATE homosexuals. "The clash between religion and homosexuality" is not even a matter of rights, its a matter of people do not like being told when sin is sin. If you don't believe in sin then go ahead and live your life but don't be surprised if you end up in hell. If there's no afterlife then the worst that can happen is your life was spent following a lie. Who cares? You'll be dead; end of debate lol.
CartmanMorisato 1 year ago
HAHAHAHAHA OmG that is hilarious! I love how the creators of this crap movie lump all of Christianity together under the banner of the homosexual-hating extremists! Are the creators "Americans?" If so should we lump them with the KKK or the Native American killing settlers of this country?? I'm sure they would love to be typecast by the worst reflections of a group they belong to as well.
CartmanMorisato 1 year ago
@Dogsneedpleasuretoo Thats where I believe you're being dogmatic. Logically, I'm making people to which I've personally known to identify themselves as such for a number of years and eventually disregard it and have heterosexual relationship. Although fluid sexuality tend to be more common in women, however I'm not going to presume that these individuals are still homosexual. My point is, biology isn't a sole factor assuming that its a factor at all and it wouldn't change biblical theology
mistersMsMonica 1 year ago
@mistersMsMonica Also, considering that suicide rates for LGBT teens are 7 times higher than the general population, with rates for LGBT adults even higher, is it really hard to imagine that someone would lie to conceal their identity, even after being out for years? As a (presumably) straight person, this is hardly something you could understand, but it's something that I encounter all too often.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@Dogsneedpleasuretoo Excellent points you brought up. I'm still curious as to how one with a different view of morality can sit and deny others with different views something that they are currently fighting for and still incredulosity doesn't see the hypocrisy in that?! If the gender prerequisites can be altered to accommodate one class why can't the same apply to people either numerically or familial?
Samc023 1 year ago
@Dogsneedpleasuretoo Although that scenario is a hypothesis contrary to fact, I'm fairly certain that that would be illegal. Men are often charged with rape if their partner did not specifically consent verbally (or, for the deaf or mute, through some other form of language). If you can find a legal case in which body language was used to prove consent to sex, your argument would hold more weight.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@Dogsneedpleasuretoo Legally, that explanation doesn't hold up. I can confirm that my body language has a certain meaning, but how can animals do the same? Aren't your interpretations of an animal's body language based on your anthropomorphization of the animal in question?
incredulosity 1 year ago
@Dogsneedpleasuretoo That's a strawman argument. I never stated that I think that eating animals or the domestication of animals is morally right. And no, I have never seen a dog "[consent] to get a blow job", nor do I ever want to. But please, do tell me how is nonverbal consent possible?
incredulosity 1 year ago
Why do we who believe that being homosexal is wrong have to have a phobia, I believe that many other things that people do is wrong so do I have a phobia against them also. Please stop try to use the Bible to justify your being homosexal. The Bible calls it an abomination. Gopd hates no person he hates sin homosexallity is sin he hates it no way around that. Sin is sin no matter what it is. We have all sinned and fall short of His glory, but we must repent to be for given. Stop lying on God.
helivsinme 1 year ago
@helivsinme It's called homophobia because your fear/hatred of gay people is completely irrational. The Bible also says that eating shellfish is an abomination and that people who work on Sundays should be killed, but you aren't condemning people who like to eat at Red Lobster or work on the sabbath, are you? You're picking and choosing Bible verses based on your preconceived notions of who it is socially acceptable to hate.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity Why do you people love to go to those samr things, but its ok you hav nothing else to use. So let me say this, yes it dose say that for those people for that time. Its called an abonination in the odl and new testament strange none of those are mention in the new testament, as amatter of fact he told Peter its not what gose into a man but every the words that come out, Jesus discussed working on the sabbath. Sin is sin. Same sex can't have kids that makes it wrong.
helivsinme 1 year ago
@helivsinme 1) Actually, it's not called an abomination in the New Testament. Paul wrote in his epistle that gay sex was 'unnatural', which he ALSO said about men with long hair. It seems to me that old Paul's sense of naturalness wasn't very keen in the first place. 2) So are you equally opposed to all other forms of non-reproductive sex? Is oral sex wrong forstraight people? Is it a sin for an infertile or elderly couple to have sex? Are birth control pills and condoms evil?
incredulosity 1 year ago
@helivsinme The bible also says (in both the new and old testaments) that slavery is morally acceptable, that children who disobey their parents should be publicly executed, and that women should be subjugated in their homes and churches. Do you find these teachings to be applicable in today's society? And if not, why is it that you are willing to use a literal interpretation of the bible when it comes to homosexuality but not these issues?
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity The New Testament doesn't say that slavery is morally acceptable simply because the NT has no vested interest in the preservation of slavery, it does however have a vested interest in adhering to the man and woman sex ethics.
Also, when it comes to the sex ethics, there is an adherence to the literal interpretation of the text, not only concerning homosexuality, but fornication, adultery, incest and bestiality, all of which are still applicable.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 Here's a quote from the NT: "Slaves, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ" (Ephesians 6:5-9) If slavery wasn't considered morally acceptable by Paul, he would have condemned it, but instead he condoned it. And quotes such as this one were used for centuries to justify the enslavement of African peoples, just as Paul's mention of gay sex has been used to justify heterosupremacy.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity Yet Ephesians isn't saying that slavery is morally acceptable as you claim. Paul is only exhorting slaves to be obedient since disobedience could incur death, he also seems to be acknowledging a pre-existing social institution.
You seem to forget that slavery in biblical times wasn't about skin color, it had more to do with social standing. Also slavery in Biblical times was remarkably different from the slavery that we know.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 The fact that slavery was a "pre-existing social institution" is irrelevant. Gay sex was also a cultural norm at the time, but Paul didn't have any trouble condemning that. So explain to me why, instead of denouncing slavery as a moral evil, he encouraged slaves to stay subservient to people who violently mistreated them?
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity The pre-existence of slavery isn't irrelevant, especially since you're claiming that the NT explicitly states that its morally acceptable, which actually isn't true. You also presume that mistreatment was inherent to being subservient, while conveniently ignoring the fact that people for the most part willfully subjected themselves to slavery for a number of reasons and that biblical slavery is different from the slavery that we know of.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 1) The OT states that it's acceptable, Sam. The NT could have cleared this up, but it didn't. 2) If they weren't subservient, please explain why the murder, abuse and rape of slaves was either condoned by god or not condemned. Obviously there were bad conditions for some slaves, which is why some ran away. Apparently that didn't matter to Paul though, because he actually returned a runaway slave to his master!
incredulosity 1 year ago
@Samc023 1) I never said that slavery during Biblical times was associated with skin color, I stated that the Biblical verses condoning slavery in the OT and NT were used to justify the Transatlantic Alve Trade and other humans rights violations. 2) I'm perfectly aware of that, and I find both forms of slavery to be despicable. Are you suggesting that depriving someone of basic freedoms is ever justifiable?
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity While you never associated slavery with skin color, you incidentally brought up the subject when you referenced African enslavement, which to me seems like a red herring, but I digress. If you're going to purposely ignore the historical understanding regarding slavey to bolster your argument, you might as well cease talking about the subject, especially if you're going to sit up and ask me whether or not its justifiable.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 Again, the extent to which slaves have been abused in different historical situations is not the issue at hand. The issue is the justification of a practice that inherently takes away rights from some humans for the benefits of others. And before you go off about some people allowing themselves to be taken as slaves, remember that many slaves at that time were POWs taken from war or otherwise taken against their will.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@Samc023 Following your line of reasoning (ie, any Biblical commandment related to sex must be interpreted literally), this verse about sex ethics should also be applied literally: "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman [...] he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her" (Deuteronomy 22:28-29). Tell me Sam, is this literal interpretation applicable in our society?
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity "your fear/hatred of gay people is completely irrational"
I'm curious as to how you define irrational? Does merely disagreeing with homosexuality make one irrational? I believe that a person can be against something without fearing or hating it. Like I said, many who adhere to the literal interpretation of scripture may also feel the same exact way for other sex prohibition, which conveniently not many seem to recognize.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 I agree that someone can be justified in their fear and/or hatred of something, but homophobia is never a rational belief. To use your example of so-called "sex prohibitions" in the Bible, there are extrabiblical explanations of why adultery, bestiality and incest are harmful. For example, bestiality is harmful because animals cannot consent to sex. But there are no extrabiblical reasons to suggest that being gay is pernicious.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity So since an animal can not consent that makes it harmful? Consent intrinsically negates something from being harmful? I'm not really understanding that. You say that there are extra-biblical explanations as to why incest, bestiality and adultery is wrong, please, show me where these are? Also Deuteronomy wouldn't be applicable considering the fact that this part of the law was given specifically for the Nation of Israel, I do give you credit for using that selected text.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 Perhaps 'harmful' was not the right word because it can be interpreted in different ways. To explain it more clearly, bestiality and incest are against the law because in the US our laws generally state that sex must be between consenting adults, and that the sex must not harm any uninvolved parties. Bestiality obviously does not meet this standard, neither does incest. I find it sad that you can't understand why these things are wrong without a fictional book to tell you they are.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity Perhaps you should cease with the condescending rhetoric in order for this discussion to remain civil. Its also interesting how you rule out incest as if, a.) It can't be consensual and b.) that it can technically not hurt anyone if its consensual and depending on other circumstances. Also, you seem to be ignoring the fact that we are discussing sex ethics from a theological viewpoint, ergo adultery is still wrong whether all parties consent or not.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 I never said that it can't be consensual, and it it harmful to third parties (and the ones involved) considering the high rate of birth defects from incestuous couples and the underlying psychological issues that cause incest and foster unhealthy relationships.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity So you're going to use the "birth defect" ploy? very well, how about
incestuous homosexual couplings or incestuous couplings who happen to be sterile? Its interesting how conservative you become when it concerns YOUR preferences, but when it comes to others, its suddenly a double standard.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 You didn't read all of my comment, I see. I purposefully mentioned the underlying psychological trauma that causes and is continued by incestuous relationships. Consensual incest is not natural, nor is it healthy. How is this a double standard? Being gay is healthy, normal and naturally occurring. Acceptance of homosexuality has nothing to do with liberalness or conservativeness, but rather an acceptance of fact.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity hen perhaps maybe you should focus on ONE point. As far as psychological trauma in connection to incest, well thats not inherently the rule and if its consenting adults then in actuality thats irrelevant. There are those that don't agree with your views in connection to both homosexuality being healthy and natural and incest not being natural. In actuality you ought to be supporting those that do desire and not have a double standard.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 There's nothing to argue about when it comes to naturalness. Homosexuality can be found in nature and it occurs naturally in humans. This is simply not a source of dispute; to disagree with this point would be a demonstration of ignorance regarding the topic. Again, no double standard. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation just like heterosexuality. It is innate and healthy. Incest is not an orientation, and in adult family members it is the result of separation during childhood.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity The fact that something can be found in nature doesn't inherently make it natural in connection to humans. There are many things that occur in nature that humans wouldn't partake in. A person’s sexual orientation is defined by the focus of his or her sexual interest, technically there can be many "orientations" so to speak.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 Your definition of sexual orientation is just plain wrong. "Sexual orientation is a term used to refer to a person's emotional, romantic, and sexual attraction to individuals of a particular gender" (WebMD).
incredulosity 1 year ago
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Samc023 1 year ago
@incredulosity If I may, Samc023 has a point. You need to decide from which angle you're going to approach this, either theological or extrabiblical, from the looks of this discussion, you're jumping from pillar to post. When you asked why bible believers don't use literal interpretation of other prohibition you switched gears when it was shown that that wasn't the case. Add to the fact that you purposely used a scripture that was connected to the mosaic law, which isn't binding under christ
mistersMsMonica 1 year ago
@mistersMsMonica I did not switch gears because I argued that it was NEVER morally okay to follow a literal interpretation of the rape laws in the Bible, regardless of what time period it occurred in, while he argued that the laws only applied to the Hebrews of the Old Testament.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@mistersMsMonica I also disgree with the idea that I must choose either a theological or secular view of the Bible. I can advocate both, because the Bible is not some stagnant text that has no relationship to the world outside of its pages. As one of the interviewees in the documentary said, our interpretations of the Bible vary widely based on our personal experiences. And for many, logic and other ways of knowing from outside the Bible them towards a nonliteral reading.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity While personal experiences my give rise to different interpretations, some things are simply clear cut. While no one has said you can't advocate a secular and theological view, you shouldn't attempt to use them interchangeably when one approach fails.
mistersMsMonica 1 year ago
@mistersMsMonica I think you're misinterpreting my approach. As I explained before, my method never "failed", because Sam never explained why it was once moral to force women to marry their rapists. I may have based the argument on erroneous knowledge of the passage, but the overarching point still stands true.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity I'm just curious as to how you've come to the belief that homosexuality is healthy and normal? what is so healthy about it? Overall I could care less about how a person lives their life, however I am curious as to how homosexuality is healthy.
mistersMsMonica 1 year ago
@mistersMsMonica As pair bonding has evolved in humans, falling in love and living with one's partner has become an integral and satisfiying part of the human experiences that leads to a longer and happier life. In this way, a person's sexual orientation (be it gay or straight) is very healthy. On the question of normalcy, all you need to do is consult any major psychological association. There is a consensus that homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is a normal variance in human sexuality.
incredulosity 1 year ago
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Samc023 1 year ago
@incredulosity Even if incest isn't an orientation it would change nothing. By that rationale a bisexual should be allowed to wed both a man and woman since now, you're limiting things to official "orientations". One minute you're saying that pair bonding and falling in love are normal aspects of life, which I will agree is true, however your double standard comes into play the moment you limit others based on familial and/or numerical value. "Love" then takes a backseat, double standard.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 People in incestuous relationships can fall in love outside of their family. And this should be encouraged, considering the health risks to themselves and others. The same is not true for homosexuality, bisexuality or heterosexuality (and by the way, incestuous people fall into one of these categories). Gay, straight and bisexual relationships between consenting, nonrelated adults are not harmful to anyone, and therefore should be allowed.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity Any type of sexual intimacy can be harmful, be it gay or straight as well as incestuous unions, however thats neither here nor there. Again, you have a double standard when it comes to love and consent, the same motif pro-gay advocates peddle, yet for some, its only in regards to THEIR particular wants. Ironically, you don't even see the hypocrisy of your own views.
Samc023 1 year ago
@incredulosity what psychological association should one consult concerning the normalcy of homosexuality? Again, what makes it as normal as heterosexuality? its not even been proven to be innate.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 There is a consensus among secular psychological associations. Try reading the APA's FAQ on sexual orientation for a more nuanced treatment than can be provided via YouTube comments.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity Ah yes! appeal to the APA's definition, which suffice to say doesn't really mean much since its been well established and documented that gay activism prompted the APA to remove homosexuality from their list of mental disorders. It had little if any to do with actual research. Therefore you're welcome to appeal to youtube science of the APA, but it really wouldn't mean much.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 There was no evidence to suggest that homosexuality was a mental illness in the first place, which was why it was removed from the DSM. The onus of proof is on those who claim homosexuality is an illness, and they have yet to produce evidence. You may want to note that the APA is not alone; organizations worldwide have removed homosexuality from their list of mental illnesses.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@Samc023 Actually, the physical differences in the anatomy of the gay and straight brain is fairly well documented, as are studies showing that hormones produced by the mother during gestation lead to a gay child. On the other hand, almost all "nurture" theories about homosexuality (absent father theory, sexual abuse theory, etc.) have been proven false.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity Also you seem to be confusing "evidence" and "studies" as undisputed fact that homosexuality is 100% innate. Much of the so-called research gay advocates attempt to use, is based on skewed science. Also it would be deluded to disregard the commonality that sexual abuse can and many times do play a role in homosexuality. Many gays will admit to being sexually abused as children, yet somehow believe its "incidental" to them leaning towards the same gender, which I find quite odd.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 It is incidental; sexual abuse does not affect a child's chances of growing up gay, straight or bisexual. More importantly, if you want to make the claim that studies showing the difference between gay and straight brains, please post evidence refuting the claims made. Simply saying that it's based in "skewed science" doesn't work.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity Sorry, but the burden of posting evidence is yours, afterall, you're the one claiming homosexuality is innate despite the lack of science to verify it, and you are the one pushing a social agenda, not I. However I can see you never denied that the APA's ruling had nothing to do with science, but politics. Its also odd how you ignore the commonalities of child abuse, however I could care less if you believe me.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 1) How is there "a lack of science" to verify my claims? I did cite a number of different studies (which is by NO means a comprehensive list), all you have to do is some basic google searching (the entire contents of this research is much more than can be provided in a Youttube comment). 2) I ignored neither. The fact is that without evidence that something is a mental illness, it cannot be included in the DSM. No evidence that homosexuality is an illness = removed from DSM.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity What different studies did you cite? I must have missed those. I've done basic google research and guess what? there is nothing conclusive that proves your claim.
Samc023 1 year ago
@Samc023 How casually you speak of the burden of providing evidence when you have yet to do so yourself. You say things like "many gay men experience such and such as children..." or "it is known that the APA has x, y and z political motives," without anything supporting these claims. It is completely inappropriate to make statements of this nature unless they are backed up with solid fact.
incredulosity 1 year ago
@incredulosity Of course I can casually say the burden of proof lies with you, afterall it is you making such a claim. Dr. Charles Socarides even explains it in Sexual Politics and Scientific Logic: Many pro-gay researchers, activists and theorists deny that there could be a connection between child sexual abuse and adult homosexuality. Authors from a book entitled Unequal Opportunity write about some of the outcomes associated with childhood sexual abuse.
Samc023 1 year ago
@incredulosity There is something else you should consider. That biology alone may not just be the only factor in why someone is homosexual. There is evidence in alcoholism being rooted in biology, that doesn't mean one is always destined to be an alcoholic. Then of course I've known some individuals who were homosexuals and left it behind for various reasons. The common rule is that no one can change or alter their orientation, however it is rather fluid.
mistersMsMonica 1 year ago