Matt Chat 90: Wasteland and Fallout with Brian Fargo

[GoodFriendsForever]

if they remake the game Bethesda will probably be dicks and sue them into oblivion just like mojang and interplay. Bethesda is a great game company but they can be huge greedy dicks

[RUTHAN667]

I'm really sad from how Brian Fargo seems defeated and saw chances of good rpg games He simply, no longer hungry, he can not win One would say, people that like him who have earned on good old games, will fight to last breath .. but he sold soul very cheaply. If he hasnt enough psychical vitality, he should minimaly support some small progressive company by money, PR, etc..

[BomimoDK]

Man. Now we just need a CSRPG counterpart to your channel and we're all set for RPG/Classic history.

[denderfurger]

ah.. the C64 .. just love the music

oh and nice vid! and i love this game :D

[ItIsTheInvisibleMan]

Yeah i understand Mr Fargo means you have to pamper to a certain audience some times. Its part of the buisness.

[xylmc]

Awesome interview Matt! Do you prefer the older Fallout series compared to the new ones? I am a huge fan of your work but do politely disagree with the fact that you can't "get your fix" from new RPGs. Mass Effect 1 and 2, The Witcher 1 and 2, Knights of the Old Republic, Risen, the list goes on for modern single-player RPGs that are way above what was possible back in the 80s. My request for Matt Chat is the history of the Zork games, from text at the start to a Mist-style first person format.

[LarisaFrolova]

Ugh, the Fallout franchise pretty much died for me after Fallout 2. I loved Tactics, but not as a Fallout game. I don't understand why graphics are so important. I imagined all the action that happened in the game inside my head and it was quite amazing to think about.

Too bad GURPS wasn't implemented though, such a great and balanced system, much better than SPECIAL.

[DissidentGenro]

I am 23 years old and so when I played most of these games (I have probably played 95% of the games from the devs you have interviewed) it was an era where games started to focus more on graphics over content.

However, like music or film, I struggle to find interest in anything tangible due to lack of intelligent content given to the consumer. Its just so watered down nowadays. I love arcade-style games too, however there needs to be more choice.

Right now there is an imbalance for consumers.

[hulksjedi]

Tell them you can be their case study, you have the audience and the material, you just need to get out there baby, you need to evangelize. You have the contacts as well. You need a web designer too man, that site is great but it can be improved a lot. Do contests (tshirts for geeks, etc). It can be done, you are half the way through. Don't quit dammit! who said it was going to be easy anyway? danger has a flavor baby. Taste it.

[hulksjedi]

Matt, baby, I really think you need to build your audience a bit more. It's high, it's great, but it can be at least three times what it is. When you do a video, email everyone about it, your coworkers, your students, the people you interviewed, via tweet, facebook, etc. And don't stop, keep doing it for a week. You need to really start pushing the limit there, brother. It's going to pay off. Get associated with someone who do web marketing, bring them in. Give them a piece of the cake.

[Langotriel1]

War...War never changes...

[toms781]

Amazing interview!

I played a lot of Wasteland with my older brother. This video brings back some strong memories. Wasteland and Legacy of the Ancients were my favorites, as they really captured my imagination. Something newer games don’t often seem to do for me.

I don’t know if it is because I am older or simply the game design. The older games seemed to demand more on the player while the new games just force feed everything with graphics and voice acting.

[toms781]

I hope that at some point you will be able to interview Richard Garriott. I am sure that would make for another excellent video.

Keep up the great work!

[dcviana]

Hey Matt. I noticed your videos have thousand of views, but not many likes. I like your videos and I think most of your subscribers like it too, so I think the problem might be that you don't ask for likes and favorites.

Asking for likes seems like a bad thing, but the truth is most people who do enjoy your videos forget to use the like button. I myself often watch my favorite videos and when, at the end, the host says "If you enjoyed it plz like it" only then I remember to press like.

[TheYoungOne477]

i wish there were new games coming out with turn based combat and party members :(

[psyjax2]

I thought Fallout 3 New Vegas, was much better IMHO. It really felt like a fallout game. The other one, not so much.

[nviso209]

Still have DESCENT running on my original modded XBOX too!

[nviso209]

One of the companies I HAVE and WILL ALWAYS MISS! INTERPLAY DESCENT was extremely innovative.... I fired up Wasteland on my Apple IIc some 6 months ago and I admit I did not give it much time b/c of my PS3, current PC, (FONV) and other medias what a shame but I remember when my Dad bought it at Software ETC for some sick price back in the mid 80's.... What a work! :)

[cormano64]

What kind of specialized journalist is not even remotely aware of a influential artist nor its creations?

Not a professional one, that's for sure!

[PaladinV0ci]

@ThrashFuckinMetal yeah dude my favorite song on that album is HammerHead with Rat Skates insane double bass

[PaladinV0ci]

@ThrashFuckinMetal yeah dude. also i think the whole Fallout series goes well with the Themes of Thrash you know? like bands like Toxic Holocaust (there ok) but the main one i think of is Megadeth's Peace Sells BWB, and Rust in Peace that remind me of Fallout you know?

[PaladinV0ci]

@ThrashFuckinMetal yea i kinda agree. but it took the story from 1 and 2

[PaladinV0ci]

@PaladinV0ci btw i love thrash

[PaladinV0ci]

Dear Brian,

1.Get the Brotherhood

2.Take over bethesda head quarters

3.and make the Fallout Games THE RIGHT WAY!!!!!!!!!!

[PaladinV0ci]

I Want Fallout done right. By Interplay. I want Fallout Online

[juanz888]

thanks for the video, very good

[MeroliZ2]

Matt, I love your shows. I sympathize with you about the difficulty of finding a solid RPG experience these days, and I wanted to tell you about an open source RPG engine I've gotten into, which you may have heard of. It is RuneSword II. The really great thing about it is the modularity. Anyone can write adventures ("tomes") for it. It can also auto-generate tomes. Also, your characters carry over from tome to tome, bringing with them the XP and items gained. Keep up the good work Matt!

[pubesz]

Good to see you back Matt! Great interview with Mr.Fargo. If I may, I would like to recommend a video review of Bad Blood, a stylish post-apocalyptic adventure game by Origin: /watch?v=KFyuJ2q28LI&feature=f­eedu

[htornis]

oh yes, the real videos are back.

[FuriousRoellinghoff]

Fargo seems really business-focused. Not blaming him at all for that, really, since it is a business for him, but saying 'Fallout 3 sold well, therefore they did a great job' doesn't really make sense from a gameplay or storytelling point of view. Junk food sells really well too, but that doesn't make it "good" or good for you. And it's not even that FO3 is a horrible game, but, extract rehash and there's not much left.

[Daehawk]

I saw Star Trek 25th running a loop on a demo computer in a Software Etc when it was new. I didn't even have a computer at the time.1993 or so. I sat and watched that loop for 2 hours while my wife shopped. I actually bought that game even without a computer! It's still one of my favorites. Just recently I went to eBay and bought the collector's versions of them :)

[ShakaUVM]

Star Trek: Demon World. Demon Forge. Hunted: The Demon's Forge.

Brian Fargo likes the word Demon, I think.

[Willam2]

A new party-based turn-based game? It just wouldn't get any better than that, especially if the combat was tactical (characters and enemies being about to move around, use cover, etc.) But I'm not going to hold my breath.

[MazokuRanma]

I have to say, one thing that I don't mind at all is the constant save points these days. Sure, when I was young, I had all the time in the world to devote to games. I could spend a whole weekend doing nothing but playing one, spending the necessary time to master a level to pass it. As an adult, though, real life is constantly interfering, and the ability to quickly save a game so I can get back to it later is a convenience I would not at all want to give up.

[HardWarUK]

Matt - you're a genius. Simple truth

[YadenSamsara]

Scony beers = win!

[WilliamGarland]

It's sad to see great developers being forgotten by my generation. I have this feeling that fifty years from now, when everything is put in perspective, we will regret forgetting all these innovators.

[blacklily8]

@WilliamGarland That's a real concern. Many great ones don't bother or refuse to do interviews or even tell their friends about what they did, so it's inevitable we will lose a lot of history.

[WilliamGarland]

@blacklily8

Just keep up the good work.

[crusader666]

As much as i respect the man and his works, that confusing sentence about Ultima Underworld made me facepalm hard. I mean, for a man who made so many great games, for so many years, i would never expect a goof like that.;P

As usual, a great Chat, Matt!:)

[blacklily8]

@crusader666 Ah, it happens, especially in an interview. I've made my share of flubs, anybody would. We've even interviewed people like Nolan Bushnell and David Crane who sometimes say the wrong decade and such. We're only human! :)

[crusader666]

@blacklily8 I can understand that!:) I just mentioned it, since it's part of the argument for Stonekeep's "biting Interplay in the a*se", and UW to RPGs is something like Doom to shooters, so the mistake may seem a bit more serious. Long story short, i felt really strange when i heard that, decided to share.;)

Funny thing, i've always preferred the 90 degree turn, tile based RPGs. It was Stonekeep's grainy graphics and the heavy reliance on FMV, that put me off.;P

[Celeon999A]

4:00 We are witnesses of the very moment in which the great Brian Fargo creates the layout for a new game inside his head.... sort of a religious experience...

Did anybody else saw that aura of light coming from somewhere behind him ? Was it just me who heard the theme of 2001 A space odysee ? :-D

[blacklily8]

@Celeon999A Haha! Yes, I saw that, too. Mostly why I left it in even though I figured some people might consider it dead time. You can actually see the game forming in his head. That could be the first time something like this has been captured on film.

[RetroLPer]

Fuck yeah! You just earned yourself another subscriber :)

[BackForwardPunch]

Great interview as usual, Matt! I am happy to say that while I didn't play a lot of these games back in the day, YOU introduced me to a lot of these classics with your Matt Chats! I agree with you that newer games I find much less engaging than the classics, but it gets hard at times to pinpoint exactly what's missing. I find that with a lot of art forms nowadays in fact.... I think that honestly it might just have something to do with the designers' love for the finished product...

[blacklily8]

@BackForwardPunch Absolutely. If you're just in it for the money, you'll at best achieve mediocrity. Creating something GREAT means taking huge risks--you could end up rich or in the gutter. You might even create something great, but it won't be recognized as such until it's too late (think of Citizen Kane). It's a tough world, but if you want to be great, you can't play it safe.

[MazokuRanma]

@blacklily8, @BackForwardPunch If you want to have a discussion about just being in it for the money, we can look at all the absolutely stellar titles produced every month to cash in on the latest movie licenses... I think the best one I ever played was Spiderman, and that was just because I had fun swinging around the city for an hour or so. It was all downhill from there.

[Flinklehurst]

Some really depressing responses in this interview. Game developers (or, probably more to the point, publishers) need to realise that not EVERY game can be a big blockbuster hit, and that downgrading your expectations to focus on niche markets can be a very profitable alternative to competing in over-saturated segments. There's more sense in targeting a neglected audience hungry for games with a bit more meat in a market filled with Halos and Mass Effects than Fargo is trying to make out.

[blacklily8]

@Flinklehurst It could be that the publishers or stakeholders just won't let them target a niche. They might just say --hey, if you CAN target the mainstream, why not? Why intentionally "waste" resources making a game for a smaller audience and less profits? What they don't get is that those "niche" games often become cult classics and can occasionally rise above the niche to the mainstream.

[marinerzz1]

It seems like no one is interested in making good games anymore, only games that appeal to the mainstream. So I don't think it matters nowadays if it's turn based, real time, party based, solo, or whatever, it's probably going to suck no matter what anyway. Older classics will always >>>>>> newer consolized shit.

[blacklily8]

@marinerzz1 Agreed. I don't have anything against console games, but I hate it when the PC experience gets watered down because someone was too lazy to properly adapt the controls.

[Kiveryn]

Dragon Age and Mass Effect have party mechanics...

[Disthron]

@Kiveryn Very true, but it's the exception rather than the rule, and you can't go bopping around with 7-8 other people.

[blacklily8]

@Disthron When I say party-based I mean getting to create your whole party from scratch.

[Disthron]

@blacklily8 Fair enough I guess. I never got attached to party members that were just generated by me. I can see it's advantages but I preferred what they did in the Ultima and Bolders Gate games where your party members were characters that you met and recruited, who came with there own personalities. That's one of the things about Mass Effect and Dragon Age that really appeal to me. Sure you don't get as many team mates at one time but they were good characters that I wonted to play with.

[yirmiahu72]

Excellent interview! There are so many games being made these days that are just mediocre cookie cutters. You would think that some developer some where could cater to that niche group of old skool gamers. I mean look at Wizardry, it's still going strong thanks to the Japanese. A new release on the PS3. But good luck getting a title here. I guess people just don't want create or customize their games anymore. They just want to be entertained in a very simplistic, graphically impressive way.

[blacklily8]

@yirmiahu72 Exactly. Graphics are at best window dressing. If the gameplay isn't there, who cares how awesome it LOOKS? I'm so sick of graphics dominating the discussion.

[matternicuss]

@blacklily8 I concur. Graphics are really only essential imo for atmosphere via great art direction.

[jmorris023]

Nice job. I always thought Faran Brygo was a douche, based on the rumor mill. I guess that's what some other gamers felt because of the lack of a true wasteland 2. Seems like he doesn't deserve that title. It's not his fault gaming has changed so dramatically. 

[zkylon]

Always good to see you asking the tough questions and holding high the old school banner ;)

[blacklily8]

@zkylon Yeah, that's something I've been working on. I don't want to be disrespectful to anyone, but sometimes you gotta push a bit to get something good. :)

[Frolsa84]

"We have that same responsibility, to try to nail stuff."

Oh, yeah, baby.

[blacklily8]

@Frolsa84 Freudian slip?

[Disthron]

I think fall out 3, and Mass Effect as well, is what people would have made in the 80's if they'd had the tech back then. In a pen and paper RPG, they have to have turne based, becouse there is not really any other way to fesably simulate cetan things. Same things with early computer games.

I have to agree about the party members, I'd love to have a party again. Anyway, another good interview. Have a good one.

[jimbobeleven]

@Disthron is it that hard to believe that some people want to make properly tactical games instead of turning every game/genre into a shooter?

[blacklily8]

@jimbobeleven Well said! 

[Disthron]

@jimbobeleven Absolutely not, there will always be a place for that, I did wont to point that out too but I didn't have the char space. Also, just because a game playes out in real time doesn't mean there are no tactics or strategy involved. Some people seem to think that it's ether board-game-like turn based stragey or mindless pew-pew-pew. There is a hole spectrum in between those two polar opposites.

[Sinekyre14]

Excellent video, Matt. Free tip:

YOU SHOULD GO TO GAME FORUMS THAT TALK ABOUT FALLOUT ETC AND POST A LINK TO THIS VIDEO. PROMOTE YOUR VIDEOS ON THE NET.

If anyone watching this video knows how to promote videos and get more views, do it now.

[blacklily8]

@Sinekyre14 It has a lot more impact if somebody besides the creator posts about it. That way it doesn't look like shameless self-promotion. :)

[hdckdsadd]

what are the games behind fargo? can somebody recognize them?

I only recognize 2

[Reconite11]

@hdckdsadd I can see the Descent series, Icewind Dale, Wasteland and Sacrifice. The rest are too blurred to see.

[MeAreTrees]

great interview !

[jasonnapalm]

Fantastic interview - keep up the great work!

[marcusmalone]

You're clearly becoming increasingly frustrated with the contemporary market place and it's sort of philistine ignorance. Obviously true with respect to the recent youtube partner thing but also more overtly reflecting in your interviews. This is not a criticism, I think it adds an interesting and compelling dimension to your work!

[blacklily8]

@marcusmalone I may end up doing a podcast segment on this topic. It's not just game development; it's the "that's just business" mentality in general. Maybe I'm just a hopeless existentialist, but I believe we *do* make choices and should take personal responsibility for them. Just being part of a business or institution does not exempt us from that personal responsibility.

[marcusmalone]

@blacklily8 Too true. I think the problem with gaming is that which comes with the mainstreaming of all cultural forms: you know, broader audience, 'broader appeal'. Nietzsche says something about all cultural things going through this process of birth, rise, decadence and decay. Seems true of Ancient Greece, rock'n'roll and, sadly, one day gaming too! Fallout 3 wasn't that bad ; ). Thanks for the response Matt of Matt Chat!

[tgaskill]

Great interview! Yes, I wish they can bring back turn based combat and parties. Love the quotes at the end!

[Maximusmadrica]

You have no idea on how long I've been waiting for this one!

[HardWarUK]

Brian Fargo could easily produce a hard-core cRPG for PC only for under $10 million and with use of his name marketing power would give him lots of free publicity. This PC only game, if as good as his earlier titles would sell in the region of 5 million units I believe, partly because of old timers, but partly because gamers are crying out for more depth in their games - even console gamers have started complaining about the "dumbing down of games" and when they think that the die is cast!

[blacklily8]

@HardWarUK That's part of the problem. They're all chasing the big bucks. There doesn't seem to be any prominent game developers willing and able to set that aside and just make a labor of love. It's not like films and other genres, where beloved pet projects are common.

[HardWarUK]

(Continued from below). The other point was that he doesn't seem to understand that because of console you have to pay $30 million to bring out something that that market wants. In Europe, we have titles like The Witcher, Gothic, Risen, Metro 2033 all being developed for under $10 million! This means, they CAN make a profit selling to the "minority" because that minority is still over 10 million gamers! hence The Witcher selling 4 million units, and Gothic one 3 million units!

[shihonage]

That quote spoke directly to me, as someone making a spiritual successor to Fallout without much hope of ever getting paid for it.

[blacklily8]

@shihonage It's got to be one of my favorites so far.

[HardWarUK]

Surprised at some of the things Brian said. It sort of shows that if you say a lie often enough, it becomes the truth! What am I talking about? The fact that even Mr. Fargo thinks Fallout 3 sold more than Fallout 1 and 2 because of Bethesda's "marketing". Bethesda used the TOTAL sales of Fallout 3, PC AND console. Which totalled around 7 million, but on around 2 million were on PC - and Fallout 1 and 2 has sold just under 3 million units worldwide since release!

(Continued)

[shihonage]

@HardWarUK Yeah, it's also funny how he compares sales figures from 1997-1998 (when gaming was still for the nerds, and it was still a pain to get a game to even work properly), to those of 2008.

Of course you're gonna have more sales when there are far more potential customers!

[HardWarUK]

@shihonage By '97 games weren't a pain, PC gamers just knew how they worked and Fallout 1 and 2 were easy peasy. Like most games by 1996 or so, you just installed them and ran them!

[blacklily8]

@HardWarUK It's a pretty weak argument because of the numbers--almost any modern game will sell more than some game in the 90s or 80s because the userbase is exponentially larger. You'd have to compare them a different way, perhaps by adjusting for the user base and growth in the industry in general.

[TheLoadingScreenz]

Great interview, I love the Fallout games so this is cool.

[Chamele7n]

I'm no nostalgia-smitten fanboy, but it's a shame how the marketplace is these days. A deep game can be needlessly confusing, but it can also be extremely rewarding. Sometimes the slowest narratives and games hold the greatest accomplishments.

[numberninteynine]

@ 1:20 did he say "and a lot of white people still have a very positive memory about it"?

[locksmithjones]

@numberninteynine he said "A lot of why people still..." not white people.

[sinbysin666]

No love for Fallout 3?

I think it's one of those games that really standout as quality gaming by today's standards. 

[DOSBoxMom]

I'll have to see if I can get a legal copy of Wasteland via GOG.com. I think I still have a walkthrough for it in one of the old "Quest for Clues" books, but I never bought the floppy-based version back in the day, even though the engine seems a lot like the Bard's Tale series (which I loved on the C64, despite the bugs). Listening to Mr. Fargo brings back a lot of memories!

[THOMASSU63]

I don't like RPG's... I want to like them, but I usually get bored playing them before finishing the game. My brother was the opposite of me. He loved RPG's and wouldn't touch another game until he'd finished the one he was playing. I hope that later I will change and finally get to finish Ultima IV at last, maybe in my old age it will happen. Who knows?

[dwlerwill]

glad your back matt great vid as always

[DMBHawk]

Great show Matt, only 10 to go until 100! Also, I was surprised when Mr. Fargo mentioned that some game interviewers don't know what Baldur's gate is! It is not that old!

[blacklily8]

@DMBHawk Any interviewer who doesn't know what Baldur's Gate isn't worthy of Mr. Fargo's time.

[retroboz]

@blacklily8 Any interviewer that doesn't do research before interviews is wasting the time of the people who would watch the interview.

Clearly you both know your stuff and do your homework.

I remember the game Baldur's Gate extremely well but at that point my gaming consisted of Warcraft II, C&C, Starsiege: Tribes and moved on to Unreal Tournament.

When 2000 rolled in, I was heavy into Diablo II.

I'm sure everyone has their own personal history of gaming that is unique and interesting.

[xqtr74]

@DMBHawk They are like movie critic who doesn't know Godfather. And they are reviewing modern RPGs and telling the public what's good and what's bad...

[HugoDesMusic]

love these videos!

[TheMessyng]

Is strange that you made so many videos of great games and not about personalizing your party and turn based combat like in mm series,would be great to hear about them for future.

[gotrek44]

From my understanding,and this is just comeing from my perspective, the reason why elements like turn based and party creation, and even meta layered strategy type of RPGs and games are rare is because most devs these days find them too difficult and time consuming to make. I feel that those elements are products of the 80s and have been lost. I also think its been givin a bad rap by todays generation just because it is indeed an older formula. But I think most agree, its too good to let go.

[deshadow52]

Great episode Matt I was just playing fallout the last few days cause I installed the resolution mod and I am playing it in 800 x 600 which gives me a lot less lag while playing :D

I am really looking forward to the next part of the interview cause judging by the list I just read of games he is credited for you guys have a lot more to talk about. As always keep up the good work.

[phanboyiv]

At least we have ONE interviewer that DOES know what Interplay is and who Brian Fargo is, goshdang.

[rl1712]

I hope Brian talks a bit about the development on Secret of Vulcan Fury all the way up to its cancellation

[slenkar]

dont be swayed by financial considerations? ok ill remember that :)

Great interview and good questions,

[blacklily8]

@slenkar Yes, eating and survival are highly overrated! :P

[bluballzzz]

@blacklily8 glad to see you back. review arx fatlius, dungeon keeper, and dragon age 2 when it comes out. also why don't you ever show any neogeo games?

[NorwegianRockCat]

I can sympathize a bit with Fargo’s point that he has to follow the market if he wants to be able to make games. It also is similar with research. Sure, you would really like to look at certain topics X, Y, and Z, but people funding the research will only fund topics A, B, and C. You have to find what’s interesting in those funded topics and try to incorporate your interests with them.

Great episode. Looking forward to the next one.

[firstinitiallastname]

Wow. I didn't expect any discussion of Stonekeep. That game had a profound impact on me when I was a kid and really introduced me to richly designed fantasy worlds.

[harriscmh]

very interesting. thanks for releasing great videos.

[antdude]

Is this the last part or are there more coming? :)

[antdude]

Is this the last part or are there more coming? :)

[IgorHardy]

The Star Trek: 25th Anniversary game indeed stands on its own and how!

This game is actually the thing that got me interested in Star Trek TOS which before I played it I imagined as just a campy shirt-less Shatner fist-fighting rubber monsters.

[antdude]

@IgorHardy I liked that game because of the space battle parts. I didn't care for the adventure parts. Heh!

[blacklily8]

@IgorHardy I only played it for a few minutes, but it did get my attention and make me want to at least figure out how to fly the Enterprise. I love TOS.

[agentm83]

Thanks, I'm looking forward to the next episode! :D

[alexanderjurjens]

BTW: This is really nice video!

[alexanderjurjens]

When you say you want games with customizable parties, does this also include teamgames and coop games?

Or are you strictly referring to the Wasteland NPC party game mechanics?

[blacklily8]

@alexanderjurjens I'm talking about the latter. Let me make a whole party of characters like in Pool of Radiance and Bard's Tale!

[ElGeecho]

Great series! I've been looking forward to this interview all week.