The "Seeker"-Sensitive Gospel

[reginaDexant]

I think it's a Pastor's duty to look out for the sheep, watch for wolves. I see so much "social justice" preached in church & doing inane things like handing out water bottles with John 3:16 labels on them on a hot day in the middle of an affluent city. What"s up with that? My Pastor (I think innocently) prayed for the success of Obama. Where is the outrage at "gay marriage", abortion, the debt that will lead our kids to slavery? Pastors are to warn & preserve & so are we the church.Scripture.

[skbakanov]

IT IS NOT FOR YOU TO GRADE MY WORK,

" 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. "

(1st Corinf. 3)

[aeroflying]

What then is the true gospel?

[k0smon]

@aeroflying True gospel? Micah 6:8

[mkazcam]

Great discernment here. These points that scooby made aren't points at all. He says you judge, that is not accurate. Judgement implies the ability to condemn or punish in some way. Calling an action wrong is not JUDGEMENT. That is an observation. A matter of fact is that JUDGEMENT is a word misunderstood by many people, often used to cause others to back off. Don't back off teaching. Even a thief knows that stealing is wrong.

[readJames48]

good doctrine!!!

[summa1129]

Excellent video bringing a common sense Biblical diagnosis of the seeker heresy.

[lucy9359]

wake up we are in the end of times amen this is right preaching!

[dazmandawson]

@lucy9359 Amen. Simply Said

[polopowers1]

.The Word does not have to be preached perfectly in order for salvation to take place.There is no such thing as a false convert.God Knows! It is foolish for someone who believes in election to say a false interpertation of preaching will cost a man his soul That is ridiculous to believe man can be responsible for another man's soul being lost.You are you way off brother the Spirit interprets to the ear even from a false thesis.This is prideful teaching not leaving mystery to God totallyGod saves

[davidrodgersNJ]

@polopowers1 I don't think he's saying that the Gospel must be preached perfectly, or understood perfectly. I think he's saying that we shouldn't avoid talking about what the Bible actually says because we might be thought of as "judgemental" or "intolerant." I think he's saying that purposefully "softening" the message is a very bad idea, and I agree with him.

[polopowers1]

@davidrodgersNJ Never would I condone a soft Gospel. But preaching the gospel for thirty two years from Hell's Kitchen, Harlem, South Bronx, and the last fifteen years at a major university I realize this kind of talk is mostly for Church people, for the head. Christ honors more the ignorant not so sturdy who go; than He does perfect technique but never go. Further than the safety of their pulpit.To me this is mostly middle class Church going theology playing it safe.

[Johlibaptist]

What does that old shack in the background represent? Stay out of "The Shack" because it's not fit for purpose.

[ericrocksabeard]

@Johlibaptist I don't think the old shack in the background has anything to do with that book, though I wouldn't touch either one. I don't want to get splinters.

[awaitthegroom]

@ericrocksabeard lol good comment

[frbjoern]

I doubt seriously that Saint Paul had such a strong phony sounding English accent. Otherwise a very powerful and important Gospel message.

[whatwouldscoobydoo1]

This is nothing but jealousy, I honestly believe that! If we had more secure leaders, focused on the things that Christ focussed on then the world would be in a much better place.

Put your energy into loving your neighbour and not judging others. That is a VERY clear message of Christ. You are not building the Kingdom of God but destroying it, I don't doubt your sincerity but please look at your motivation, you are not interpreting scripture in the light of the God we see in Christ.

[LaneCh]

lol... you say to others to put their energy into not judging others right after you judge that the things presented in this video are nothing but jealousy. Repent of your hypocrisy, and quit embracing the fruits of the Pharisee.

[OfWrathAndGrace]

@LaneCh How dare he judge your judging.

[firstplumbline]

In the Church of Jesus Christ there are NO UNBELIEVERS. There is no place in the Body of Christ for unbelievers. How can we bring unbelievers in our midst in order to have fellowship with them?

Repent, believe this is the message preached, no "sinner's prayer" ever uttered in the Word of God! In fact the method of "commitment" was through water baptism, not repeating a prayer, nor coming forward in response to an altar call.

[ezekiel318]

very true

[acedudeone]

I wish these videos were numbered or something as they all seem incomplete and not organized You can't follow from 1 to another.

[LaneCh]

There is no order to them because they are all from different episodes. They are merely clips of full episodes; not full episodes in and of themselves. If you'd like the full episodes, you can purchase them from the links in the descriptions to these videos.

[spiritualaccent]

i dont care what you say ! your stupid for saying that "altar calls are of the devil" ! how can you sat something so ignorant ? how many people have been gloriously delivered & saved as a result of altar calls ? thank God for preachers giving people a chance to repent at an altar ! idiotic fools like joel osteen (who has stopped salvation altar calls at his church cause he doesnt want to "offend" anyone)& false teachers like carlton pearson need to repent of false doctrine & man-pleasing spirits

[gotter57]

Typo in the text graphic on screen from 6:49 to 7:00.

[shockingalternative]

too much man centeredness in the church today. all these poor people who hate God and love sin... yes, we need to love people as Jesus commands us to. but feeling sorry as if man is just lost instead of having a heart that is wicked and deceitful above all things is unbiblical. yes, ppl have an emptiness. that is expected. but all men must realize their depravity and complete helplessness to save themselves. only God can save a man

[shockingalternative]

i'm heartbroken. my pastor has changed our church into a place where it's literally ran and for unbelievers. we are told to not worry about being nourished on God's word. it's not about us. It's about the lost. our church is for them. there is little no talk on sin or judgement. ppl are given jamba juice cards and thanked profusely for just stopping by. scripture is merely a backdrop to more "relevant man centered topics". :(

[prsteveowens]

You need to find a new church. :(

[CrossPointVineyard]

If you think Willowcreek is "Gospel light" you're way off the mark. Bill has separated "religion" from the gospel. They're preaching the gospel at Willow... just without all the traditional trappings of religiosity.

Scare your people if you like... but Willow's Gospel is the straight testimony of the gospel. They have always been ruthless in evaluating their methods and admitting what's working and what's not. Then running to make changes to those methods so that they're more effective.

[shockingalternative]

my pastor knows bill hybels. i don't wish to speak ill. but i find it very disturbing how the churches are looking to man made methods and humanistic ways to get people to come to church or hear the gospel. the gospel isn't to be prostituted or practically begging ppl to just hear it. the gospel is offensive and men in darkness hate it. Only God and His word should be used as standard to how the church is run. It is He who saves men

[atestaccount]

Wow ... this guy's sermon brings back memories of the one's in ye olden days of church services (they put me to sleep back then too). zzzzzzz

[indebt2Him]

A person will never turn to Christ unless they see their sin like as exceedingly sinful(rom. 7:13)- Man must see how he is measured by God's holy standard the 10 commandments, then the law will do its work as the schoolmaster (gal.3:24) bringing men to Christ, that they may be justified by faith. Examine Rom. 7:7

[swampratzozzle]

Adam hid from God, because he feared punishment. This is the nature of sin - fear. But God didn't punish him, he promised him a Saviour to come and restore things. Paul talks about this when he says, sin separates us from God IN OUR MINDS. All through the Old Testament, God was merciful much longer than man deserved. He doesn't want to punish, though he is just. God is still seeking to restore man to Himself in relationship. The world needs to hear this. Connection with God transforms us.

[swampratzozzle]

People's greatest need is to feel loved and accepted. They don't really feel God will give this to them, or that he is as good as he is, that they have everything they need for life and godliness, as the Word says. So they try to be really good to earn righteousness, and fall into all manner of sin to try to get their needs met. This can even be something socially acceptable, for anything not of faith is sin. I can tell them, God will NEVER disappoint them, everything else will. God is good

[MackLeeGreen]

Jesus came providing the only means for us to be loved and accepted by God-the forgiveness of sin through Christ's life, death and resurrection. What greater need is there than God's love and acceptance?? But Jesus also said that we would be hated for proclaiming His name. Yoi can only accomodate a culture that despises the Gospel so much before you eventually compromise the Gospel itself.

[swampratzozzle]

I totally agree - there is no greater need than God's love and acceptance, yet people will desperately seek a substitute, won't they? I find the only hate I get is from people who are very judgemental Christians caught up in works righteousness. All the unsaved people I have witnessed to have responded well. They realize God is the only source for meeting the deepest needs of the heart, because deep down, they feel empty and alone, despite all their seeking.

[demonsmasher2]

go back to eden and see why Adam hid from God not God from Adam

[swampratzozzle]

I agree that sin is a condition. I guess it is semantics. many people abuse the message of faith righteousness by saying sin is okay, you are right. But sin will KILL you, it destroys you. I totally agree. If people could just see how deadly it is, they would drop it like a poisonous snake. "There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end is death". This is the most dangerous kind of sin, it looks good. It is not trusting that God's ways are the only way to Life.

[swampratzozzle]

Paul was talking to BELIEVERS who were having a different Gospel preached to them than what they first accepted. Works to attain righteousness were being added. That is the Gospel he condemned, because it alienates people from God. Only the Spirit, not our efforts will produce the fruits of the Spirit. We get unsaved people whose efforts are disastrous cleaned up at the altar, then we tell them to try real hard to be good. Why would it work now? They must rest in Jesus' righteousness.

[swampratzozzle]

If a Gospel is preached that says, be careful, if you mess up, God is going to send you to Hell, then it causes us to rely on our own efforts to be righteous, and scorns the blood Jesus shed. We must enter this place of rest and yield to righteousness, we must be transformed by the renewing of our minds - by choosing to embrace God's opinion, not our own about righteousness. This is faith that pleases God. So few unsaved people are told this. They know their lives aren't working already!

[swampratzozzle]

They must see hope that they can be healed, made whole, and find the fulfillment they are looking for only in God. Sin perverts all God-given desires, but they are God-given nonetheless. When one relies on God, and follows his principles, they receive health, satisfying relationships, godly children, financial needs me. The Bible is full of wisdom and practical advice that God in His kindness has recorded for us. We can thrive in loving relationship with our Heavenly Father. Sin has no appeal

[swampratzozzle]

Scripture says "the GOODNESS of God leads to repentance (changing of one's mind)." and "whoever fears is not made perfect in (God's) love (for them), because fear has to do with punishment" The Gospel must be presented in a way that says all have sinned, and all must pay, but the Good News is Jesus did that for us, so there is no more need to be afraid of God. They must see their desperate condition without Him so they will turn to Him to be saved. They will run if they are afraid.

[swampratzozzle]

But if we truly believe that now we are new creatures, dead to sin, alive to Christ, and slaves to righteousness, and we are truly perfected (convinced) of God's love for us, and that we are righteous because of what Jesus did, then we will trust him, thus giving up totally our way of thinking, making him Lord of our lives and following him with all our heart, mind and soul. When we do things God's way, we experience the abundance he promised, not as a reward; it's just how it works! Good News

[swampratzozzle]

This is the Gospel Paul preached: we are saved by grace through faith, not by works, lest anyman should boast. The Judaizers tried to come in and say, but if you don't follow all these rules, God will condemn you. While Paul pointed out that works always follow faith (the word believe and obey are the same in the original), those works are dead if they are used to establish righteousness. That is the very very fine line. Fear of judgment can't come into behaving, or it is not faith at all.

[swampratzozzle]

I'm assuming this guy is talking about seeker sensitive evangelism, like the author of Purpose Driven Church talks about. He better scold Jesus, then since he turned water to wine at a drunken wedding reception, and used examples of farming to farmers to explain the kingdom of God, and participated in all the cultural celebrations of his day. Remaining culturally sensitive requires much more love than sticking to your comfort zone. Most of our "spirituality" is really just culture anyway.

[MackLeeGreen]

That is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. Jesus turned the water into wine because His mother asked Him to and it was at a wedding where He was a guest. He was a guest, He wasn't preaching. And this video is not saying there is anything wrong with relating to people in culturally relevant ways. But these churches get obsessed with it that it overshadows the Gospel. In some cases their relevance replaces the Gospel. Even when Jesus spoke in parables He didn't back down from talking about sin.

[swampratzozzle]

I stand corrected. I didn't know it was okay to act one way in church, but another if we weren't preaching. I guess that's why Jesus let that woman caught in adultery off the hook even though he had both the opportunity and the right to have her stoned.

[MackLeeGreen]

Read the passage. It was a wedding that is the point. It was not a context where He would have been preaching. He leaves right after doing that. The significance of that was that it was the first sign He performed in front of His disciples. It's right there in the passge. He wasn't being seeker-sensitive.

And like a lot of people you conveniently forget what Jesus said to the adulterous woman after the men who were going to stone her left "Go and sin no more."

[swampratzozzle]

Actually, when people bring up the point about Jesus saying go and sin no more, I always ask, why? It couldn't be because she would be punished, he just let her off the hook. It's because sin destroys us. People think sin is a list of don'ts but it is an attitude that says I can't get my needs met unless I do things my way, when God has already given us everything in Christ. Sin, most times in the NT is "missing the mark", not misbehaving. That's a much higher standard, don't you think?

[MackLeeGreen]

I never said it was so she wouldn't be punished, I just pointed out that Jesus said that. So many people are quick to remember "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.." and forget "Go and sin no more" so they can affirm sinful behavior. You're right that sin is more than a list of do's and dont's. But I also believe scripture that it's more than just a bad attittude. Paul said Jesus comes to us when we were dead in our tresoasses. Sin is more than a bad attitude it is a condition.

[MackLeeGreen]

If by "missing the mark" you mean unbelief then I'll agree with you. I believe all sin ultimately comes down to unbelief. Nad what needs are you talking about?? The most relevant need to be met is forgiveness of sin, and it comes only through Christ.

[randy95023]

While I don't subscribe completely to the form of Calvinism that Paul Washer and Mark Kielar preach, I do agree with both of these Godly men about 98% of the time. Thanks for posting all these great vids. They've been informative, educational and comforting.

May God Bless You!

[carpentersdaughter2]

I enjoy the word pictures show. IT brings such good solid food to the table to partake in.

Thank you for posting such good videos.

Linda

[superkal2006]

repent, believe the gospel of jesus christ (jesus' work of atonement in his death and resurrection), and recieve the holy spirit of promise evidenced with tongues. i pushed a little further than this man did but, this man is preaching the right things. americans hate the gospel and will make any excuse to do so

[LaneCh]

What makes you think that God loves those that go to hell?

[shas1814]

"What makes you think that God loves those that go to hell?"

I don't.

God doesn't exist.

[LaneCh]

If you were an agnostic, that would be one thing, but you're professing that you know something definitively. Please explain how you know this.

[LaneCh]

So let's just recap the action. You make statements about God. I then ask why you think those statements. You then reply that you don't. You then say that God doesn't exist. I ask you how you know that God doesn't exist. You then want to go back to talking about God. I have no time for this irrational thinking.

[LaneCh]

I say the following in love regardless how it's taken.

From the look of your videos you're getting late in age and closer by the day to death. You should repent of your sins and trust in Christ for salvation from God's wrath.

[LaneCh]

It does not make me happy if you go to hell, but at the same time I wouldn't care about you if I didn't tell you what the Bible says about it just to meet your likes. I pray for your soul.

[bambuskaktusa]

Hello! THe truth is shas1814: We have all sinned and deserve hell..When the time comes and we all stand before the throne of God. We will know He is justice. And we will understand love, sin, holyness. And even if he did not send a savior for you, Jesus, he would still be just, loving and good. And we will understand all of this. But he wants you to understand this NOW. God loves you. The devil that speaks in your ear does NOT! I tell you this: Do not accept lies. GOD LOVES YOU!!!

[promisesinlove]

I am a Christian but listen we all are free to live as we choose,even God says so.

[FSElement]

Of course we're free to live as we wish.

But you can't expect to receive what God promises if we live by our own standards and desires.

[promisesinlove]

I am responding to folks who live as they choose,folks who live as rhey choose do not want Gods promises. If they hear the word and hear of Christ they reject the word and his promises. God has given us all free will.

Not eveyone is interested in Gods promises.I accept and receive Christ. I am a christian.

I say to folks who continue to dispute the word -you are free-meaning free to choose heavan or hell.Then I move on

I do not keep speaking to folk who do not want to hear.Tis is my last post .

[simone56]

Your analogy falls short. God makes it clear these people who are cast into hell do NOT belong to him. Those puppies did nothing to deserve your treatment against him, mankind HOWEVER has committed every kind of sin against God AND WE DESERVE HELL.

I submit to you that those who are in hell wouldn't leave if they could to because they hate God so. You do not understand the depravity and evil of man.

[hasani42]

The very fact that he is depraved is why he doesnt understand hes depraved. Like proverbs says, every man will proclaim each his own goodness

[carltonsue]

An example of God's Judgement is the Flood, another example is sodom and gomorra. This should give you a warning. If we got what we deserved we would be lost and go to hell. God in his Mercy allows you a way out. Its by puting your faith & trust in Jesus Christ that you can be saved. If you don't want it, it goes to show that you like the darkness. Please reconsider

[promisesinlove]

I am a Christian but we are all free to live as we choose.Even God says so.

I at one time did not believe but then made a study of the Bble.

So now I beleve and thats my choice.

Give bible study a try if you like it may surprise you . But what ever you do Bless You

[Riverfrog72]

Did he just say that apostle paul was the only messenger of the gospel. It's the Gospel of Jesus Crist. It really offeneds me when they treat paul with such athority.

[LaneCh]

"It really offeneds me when they treat paul with such athority."

Um... why? Paul was appointed by God to be a messenger of the Gospel. He's very clear about that.

[Riverfrog72]

I understand that, but if you take what paul says and don't put it with the context of what Jesus says, then your not listening to what he says.

Jesus didn't preach that we didn't have free will. If you believe he did then God must be cruel, to predestine people to repent ask for forgiveness and then not save them. (mathew 7:21-23)

Jesus is the only messenger of God. Put your faith in whomever you wish. But, I am putting mine in Jesus.

[LaneCh]

So you hold that Jesus and Paul contradicted each other? I'm just trying to understand your position. Also, Jesus did say that we didn't have a free-will in the sense that we can't just come to God at our own volition. (John 6:44)

[Riverfrog72]

No, I am saying that this preacher doesn't realize that Paul was responding to a letter from the Colrithians. We don't know what this other gospel was. But, he is setting up his belief in Calvinism with this passage, which has nothing to do with what paul says.

[LaneCh]

"But, he is setting up his belief in Calvinism with this passage, which has nothing to do with what paul says."

Why does Calvinism have nothing to do with what Paul says?

[Riverfrog72]

Whe Does it? Explain that to me. And why do you ignore that Jesus says many places that we must do things or God will not forgive us. Example Repent and Forgive others. With out free will we can't even do these things.

But Calvinism teaches that God chooses people that don't do these, In fact they say we can't do them at all.

[LaneCh]

I've posted nearly 300 videos dealing with that subject. I'm not going through them all here. Go to those videos.

[brocraigster]

you say staight to hell, but dont forget the white throne judgement

[quinn127]

I just wanted to say thank you very much for posting this. I have ben in some church where they don't teach these things truly I love to hear this stuff it is truly refreshing to my soul. Thank you for it. God bless you,

[DiTyOm]

The Reveal polls showed converts maturing until they found the church's provision unchallenging--a very GOOD sign. This shows the Holy Spirit is working in them, making them hungry for truth. If Willow's initial approach was wrong, the converts themselves are correcting it.

That their theology is vague doesn't matter--the Holy Spirit will take care of that. When the sheep are divided from the goats it won't be over theology, but over the sort of social care this congregation IS displaying.

[LaneCh]

"When the sheep are divided from the goats it won't be over theology, but over the sort of social care this congregation IS displaying."

That's funny because Jesus says exactly the opposite of that. "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." (Joh 3:18)

Jesus obviously held theology to a higher standard than you. You're preaching another religion based on works-righteousness.

[LaneCh]

Paul the Apostle did, too: "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed."(Gal 1:8)

Your unconcern about what the Bible itself teaches regarding theology is just a fruit of Willow's approach and what fans of it often declare. "Doctrine doesn't matter." Well, what you probably haven't figured out is that that statement is doctrine.

[LaneCh]

"The Reveal polls showed converts maturing until they found the church's provision unchallenging--a very GOOD sign. This shows the Holy Spirit is working in them, making them hungry for truth. If Willow's initial approach was wrong, the converts themselves are correcting it."

No, that's a sign that God still works to bring HIs elect to Himself regardless of the faithlessness of those who profess to be "Christian leaders." Those same people who are unchallenged are leaving these types of places.

[DiTyOm]

So you admit these conversions are real?

I don't think the poll showed people leaving in significant numbers, only that they were dissatisfied. Anyway, almost all denominations are haemorrhaging people at the moment. So, are all these denominations wrong? Is people leaving a church any kind of useful benchmark?

[LaneCh]

I believe there are conversions being made by God to people in these business establishments,but it's not because of the efforts of those businesses,it's in spite of them. When the unbelievers and "new Christians" approve of your business, and the mature Christians disapprove, it seriously shows what the fruit these business establishments are putting forth. When mature believers are leaving because they're actually derided for wanting to go deeper then we're dealing with egos and not Scripture.

[DiTyOm]

Yet the fact remains that conversions are happening, in large numbers, at Willow Creek. Another fact is that the leadership is taking the dissatisfaction theyve uncovered in the poll very seriously. They are changing their attitudes in response. Can you deny that? Can you show that this is not a work of the Holy Spirit? Are they producing appropriate fruit?

Also, what is your evidence that mature Christians are leaving Willow Creek?

[LaneCh]

Again, you're just showing your ignorance of the issues. Chris Rosebrough just attended Willow Creek's Reveal Conference and Hybels himself lamented on stage his own failures in the system. You seriously need to get educated.

"Also, what is your evidence that mature Christians are leaving Willow Creek?"

Not only Willow Creek, but every "seeker" church like it because they're all juvenile. Julia Duin just wrote a book about it called "Quitting Church." Again, more to conquer your ignorance.

[DiTyOm]

My experience--over 32 years--is the longer I'm a Christian, the less doctrine matters. Doctrine is infinitely debatable, an endless source of argument, judgement and confusion. It demands a theology degree, but not even theologians can arrive at a concensus.

Doctrine is too limited a device to define the person of God and our relationship with Him. It is like Law: we should use it as a prop to lead us to Christ, but dispense with it as soon as we start to really know God.

[LaneCh]

"My experience--over 32 years--is the longer I'm a Christian, the less doctrine matters."

Well, you're not a Christian, period. No wonder you approve of all this narcissism. Paul the Aposte regarded doctrine as following:

[LaneCh]

But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine.

(Tit 2:1)

He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

(Tit 1:9)

If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness

(1Ti 6:3)

So once again, your position (the position advocated by SS's) proves that it's you against the Bible.

[DiTyOm]

"Right doctrine" is useful for the immature. Children need absolutes; adults can live in a more complex universe. "Right doctrine" is like Law—it is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ; it is left behind when we graduate. Gal 3: 24-25

We graduate when we realise that all "right doctrine" is just an approximation of the character of God.

So the mature response to Willow Creek is not to legalistically measure it against doctrine, but to ask if the Holy Spirit is at work there.

[LaneCh]

Ah, so now we're getting at the heart of your disdain for doctrine.: the inherently self-contradictory philosophy of post-modernism. Do you believe there is no such thing as absolute truth?

[DiTyOm]

There most certainly is an absolute at the heart of the Gospels. Can you guess what I'm talking about? Heres a clue: it's what you are not showing towards Willow Creek.

[DiTyOm]

So how, do you reconcile that with Matt. 25 31-46, where the criterion for judgement is definitely care for others?

[LaneCh]

First of all, I don't reconcile friends. There's no need to.

Second of all, you said, "My experience--over 32 years--is the longer I'm a Christian, the less doctrine matters." Then you said, "So how, do you reconcile that with Matt. 25 31-46, where the criterion for judgement is definitely care for others?" (cont...)

[LaneCh]

Ah, so doctrine does matter or it doesn't? Do you care about consistency or just the fact that you can sing 7/11 songs about your admiration for yourself for "choosing Christ"? The point is, you deride doctrine but the very thing you deride in speech is what you advocate in practice which is why you brought up Matthew 25 to try and instruct. Is being consistent irrelevant these days? Is being a hypocrite in vogue? I hadn't noticed.

[DiTyOm]

As it happens, my testimony is that my salvation was entirely a work of God. What did I say to suggest otherwise?

We are called to a relationship with God, not a "doctrine" with Him, and our actions (Matt. 25) reflect that relationship. Calling that a doctrine is to extend the definition of doctrine to the point of absurdity.

A working relationship with God—knowing God—subverts all doctrine. And good riddance—it is ultimately mechanical and inhuman, loved only by Pharisees.

[LaneCh]

"We are called to a relationship with God, not a "doctrine" with Him,"

How do we have a relationship without applying the doctrine we've been given by Him? This is an example of a false dichotomy. Again, I see that you haven't answered the question of why you deride doctrine in one statement yet use it when you believe that it meets your ends in the latter. This is precisely what the Pharisees did. (cont...)

[LaneCh]

They made up their own doctrine apart from Christ's and when Christ's came along the subverted it with their own man made traditions. Saying all that, I challenge you to provide one verse in Scripture that proves that "We are called to a relationship with God, not a "doctrine" with Him," is a Biblical statement and not your extra teachings that lead to a works righteousness lest you remain labeled historically accurately as Pharisaical.

[DiTyOm]

The NT is full of references to our calling to relationship. Remember, "I never knew you," Matt. 7:23, and Paul speaking of "knowing Him, and the power of His resurrection" and the Parable of the Talents, that shows we will be treated in accordance with our view of God—how well we know Him.

If you read the Bible wearing doctrinaire glasses you find only what you expect.

[DiTyOm]

But Galations is talking about legalism--the "gospel" in this context is about freedom from Law. How did that get turned into a critique of a particular approach to evangelism?

And what happened to being "all things to all men" in order to save some?

The truth of the seeker-sensitive approach is that it is working--the conversions at Willow Creek, for example, have stood the test of time and the test of Christ-like behaviour.

We can't dictate how the Holy Spirit will choose to work.

[LaneCh]

You're obviously ignorant of facts. Willow Creek and Granger just took part in what is called the Reveal Polls and it showed that they are not working. You seriously need to do some research on it so you can have your facts straight. Extremetheology(.)com is a good place to start. There's a video I posted called "Pop Goes the Hype!" which is also a good place to get some information.

[bassin707]

I just love to hear clear, accurate, BIBLICAL teaching. There is so much going around these days (especially here in the United States) which calls itself the "gospel" and is not, that the truth is like cool water refreshing the soul. Thank you very much. I wish I could rate this 100 stars for the proclaiming of the truth.

[WillowbrookChurch]

There is an important truth about Jesus that is often overlooked (I believe) and it is this: that he/Jesus was called, "A friend of sinners." In my study of the Gospels, it leaves me thinking: "How come the "self-righteous" seemed appauled by Jesus, while the sinners seemed attracted to him? No doubt, Jesus spoke truth (He is truth). But the "way" he spoke it is often lacking in churches (fire and brimstone). Do not forget, the Bible says, "God's kindness leads to repentance."

[twanablevins]

Great and truthful biblical teaching here.

[4XT2H]

I have a question

If the doctrine is predestination is true, and only those chosen from the foundation of the earth are going to be save

How come he accuse false preachers that their message will "cost man their soul" ?

[LaneCh]

Well, because they do, but a person believing their false message isn't the sole reason a person is lost. One thing about a business is that it doesn't survive without customers. In our example, the "customers" are God hating sinners. The fact that they willingly believe a false prophet is a testament to their sin as much as it is a testament to the preacher's false message so God still is just and rightfully punishes unbelievers.

[opoalcoal]

yes many years ago I was in a church that preached about being happy and sometimes thay would talk about Christ. But it was not of Christ in the Bible. Milktose and whitebread preachers I can only say this to them-ANATHAMA.. REPENT.. I a sinner saved by the grace of God I will be eternaly gratefull that the Lord brought me out of this murky pit and has led me to the Truth that set me free. May the Lord be your portion forever..

[terriergal]

this is WONDERFUL!!

[theocratickingdom30]

Have any of you ever taken a road trip, stopped for directions, and ended up even more lost? How can we expect men to be awakened in their sin and get to Christ if we give them the wrong directions? The state in the church today is so sad. Thank goodness for the Kielar's, Piper's, and MacArthur. And the LaneCH's that put them up on youtube. :)

[476juggalo]

how does he know

[LaneCh]

How does he know what?

[lutheranman]

Thank you Lane! And thank the Lord for such a wonderful presentation of the truth!

[daafith]

Sound message. :)

[talithakoumi]

thanks Lane by far how God converts the human soul is the best that cross tv has ever done (I think anyways) Paul encluded HIMSELF in that saying "If WE or anyone else or angels... let him be accursed" paul knew he was desperately wicked most wont admit it.thank you for this! God bless!

[LaneCh]

Amen, Jen! Great point.

[bberchin]

Great video- tackling a serious issue in the church today. We need to ever continue the Reformation and be constantly reforming ourselves to the scriptures. God bless, Lane.

[LaneCh]

Amen, bb.

[EZEKIEL3622]

amen, great video!

[GospelTruth777]

It's really a pleasure to watch this man speak the Truth of Christ!

[ProclaimHisWord]

This message was right on!Five stars.

[rhs2000us]

(@ 6:15) Billy Graham? Evangelist Billy Graham supports the papacy 100% (Roman Catholicism) and was a 33rd Degree Mason. He will send multitudes to Hell with his sermens, for more information about Billy Graham, Roman Catholicism, and Freemasonry, visit jesus-is-savior dot com.

[LaneCh]

I think Kielar was making a point. He mentioned Graham and Moody who are/were both Semi-Palagians and then speaks of the Apostle Paul. I believe it may have been used for contrast.

[jmc15john]

Thanks for the video, it was great!

[rhs2000us]

Here are really good examples of "seeker"-sensitive "sermons":

Joel Osteen, Paula White, Brownsville Revival, Chi Alpha Campus Ministry of any kind, Joyce Meyer, and Robert Tilton.