Usain Bolt's start and sprint style contrast against Tyson Gay's start and sprint style

[TYPHOONATHLETE96]

watch tyson run 9.71 he rocks less. the less he rocks the faster he runs. abou tyson running on his heels, sorry man u r wrong. he runs on the ball of his foot but he is low when he runs so his feet look flat when he strides. good pointing out if the hands though he rolls his shoulders, hence the reason he is less relaxed when he runs that bolt. look at asafa's technique, his is different too

[tttjump]

Tyson may land on the ball but his heel touches down as he progresses through the race.

That reduces power output. ground contact time will remain the same if his heel doesn't touch down but his stride length will increase.

[TYPHOONATHLETE96]

tru, but it doesnt seem to effect him mutch because he doesnt shudder when he runs.

[tttjump]

But the issue is how much faster can he go?

They need to post the video of the races when he runs 9.69 and say 9.80, that is the only way we can get a good comparison going of what causes what. The same for Asafa, what happens when he runs 9.72 and 9.92?

[tttjump]

The other issue is what does he need to do to run consistently 9.71 or faster.

Same with Females sprinters, one day they drop 10.73 and the next 11.10. what happen?

[TYPHOONATHLETE96]

They arn't always in form though. Bolt can't run 9.5 every time he is in a meet even when he tries to. And at least 4 times in a year is when an athlete feels loose and can run really fast times without trying

[tttjump]

I bet Bolt would run 9.5 every time if someone pushed him to do it. Bolt's average 100m time is about 9.80 over a 3 month period.Someone that can run 10 flat on 6/11 and then dropped 9.86on 6/27 has pretty good top form. even Powell's average 100m time is about 9.90 over a 3 month span. And Bolt is injury free.

[TYPHOONATHLETE96]

not really that means that Jeter can do consistant 10.6's, if she could well....

[tttjump]

She should, heck her avg 100m time between 4/20 and 9/20 of 09 was 10.90 . which is .2 faster than her 08 avg 100m time. In 09 I think she opened up at 10.96 which is faster then her best 100m time from 08.

[Stereo1994]

Training Or Steroids

If You Look At The Athletes In Pre-Season...Theyre Not Hench...When It Comes To Championships, Theyre Muscles Are Bulging

[TYPHOONATHLETE96]

u cannot always be in top form

[tttjump]

A lot of what an athlete does is based on coaching philosophy. If a coach doesn't think an athlete can keep top form over a long period then they sure are not going to train them that way. If a coach believes that you only have 4 fast races in one year then that is how the athlete will be trained.

[AntillRS]

After seeing Bolt do what he did in Berlin, do you still think Tyson Gay should be quicker than the Jamaican? Many pundits think (Michael Johnson being one) that the reason why Bolt is so quick is because there has never been someone with a combination of such a long stride (i.e. height) AND someone with such high foot-speed. Because he has those in spades, they appear to think he is unbeatable and not many would be brave enough to argue. Do you still think Gay is potentially quicker?

[tttjump]

I think that Tyson Gay could be faster. Tyson Gay needs to use his arms better to control his speed from the start of the race to the end of the race.

His stride is long not because he has long legs but because he is maximizing his levers to his advantage.

From the start of the race Tyson was behind.

[rtw2k]

so in this video, which one are you saying is the good form? and where did you learn this technique, did you run in college or anything like that?

[tttjump]

I think they both are good. Just pointing out some things that make their styles different. Should they become one another no, but can they learn from one another to be even faster, yes.

[kenshitheone]

i think bolt just rocks too much. besides that that man a pimp on the track.

[tttjump]

Have you noticed that Tyson Gay is rocking just as much as bolt does now.

Must be something to the rock. even Asafa rocks side to side.

[kenshitheone]

hey but asafa usually does rock like this if not at all. gatlin doesnt rock i think. he run like hes a horse.

type in: justin gatlin start and watch the firsst video

[tttjump]

That just goes to show that rocking may not be as big of an issue as we think at times. Calvin Smith was all over the place while Carl Lewis and Ben Johnson both smooth as can be. Kim Collin rocks a lot also. Justin Gatlin ran smooth.

[merseyside4]

Asafa's style (i think) looks the best on the track. its the most...Synchronised lol. And looks the best. That vid needs to be done again with better and longer annotations. And better quality.

[primeminister78]

True, he said that himself, he was talking about how his coach keeps telling him to work on it.

[howardlitt86]

He isn't "rocking" he is changing his support. Bolt does not "run" he uses POSE which is a controlled fall where you stay up by changing support (feet). The greater the degree/angle of the lean/fall and the higher the cadence (steps per minute) the faster a person moves. He is using gravity to his advantage instead of fighting gravity. His angle of fall is 18.5* and cadence is above 280 (I believe)... he isn't exerting energy or deviating from a straight line, and you can't really rid the rock.

[tttjump]

So when did he start POSE? Which is just sprinting to everyone else?

Did it start in 08 or did it start when he was 16?

Is his coach teaching POSE to the other sprinters in that training group of just Bolt?

If so why are the other sprinters not as improved?

If he isn't , why not?

[howardlitt86]

POSE doesn't HAVE to be taught to everyone, some people naturally run like that. Dr. Romanov studied different elite athletes and indiginous people's style of running and named it POSE. It is not always a need to learn technique. However it is quite apparent (however he learned and whenever he started) that this is the way Bolt runs.

I see elsewhere that you are talking about maximizing force, the best runners do not use "force" but instead control fall and allow gravity to pull them along.

[tttjump]

Last time I checked gravity is a force. The force that I refer to maximizing is gravity.

Maximizing means to get the most out of.

How can you name something that already has a name? Sprinting.

[howardlitt86]

Ok fair enough, but it was not clear that you were refering to natural force and not force created by the runner.

POSE applies to more than sprinting. Long distance runners use it, swimmers, bikers you can use it for a lot of different sports. That is why you can name something that "already has a name" and he didn't change the name of the sport, just GAVE a name to the technique.

[tttjump]

So you are saying that Bolt is using POSE style of sprinting? Did he use POSE when he was just an average elite sprinter or did he learn it in the last two years? I am not saying that he is or isn't since I don't train him. I know that POSE is applied to a lot of things.

[tttjump]

Maximize is the key word. People use it everyday without fully understanding it.

Without gravity we would be floating.

[Ammovir]

that will be great if you would slow down the video.

[domainemain]

tttjump, you did a nice job by analyzing the different sprint styles. I personally think Tyson at his best could be a tough opponent for bolt. But does gay need a bigger stride length ? And can he achieve this by changing his technique?

Greeetzzz en thx for the vid

[nnnNOTORIOUS]

i think you might start thinking twice about that comment...bolt just showed that he really is streaks ahead of everyone else

[airsoftassains]

yea that was clear

[blacbiz11]

i agree. evryone has their own technique,bolt is taller obviously he has a diffrent technique.i dont c any flaws with tyson's race he was just beat by someone better than him on that day.i'm jamaican but tyson's my fav athlete.

[tttjump]

Tyson should be faster than bolt, No doubt the styles are different. But each could learn from the other styles to make advancements.

[HungAzn]

Of all the notes that are in the video, which ones are the "good traits" for sprint running?

[17omar17]

I think tyson has faster muscles like actual physical twitch is faster but i think usain has the longer levers and uses them more effciently, at the same turnover rate bolts legs will cover more ground. I respect how humble tyson is though, true champion!

[eeosley]

wow its funny how all of you guys who r NOT pro's always want to give tips to one. everyone has a different form that fits them geniuses. n i dont think he needs any help from guys he could jog and beat.

[tttjump]

Last time I check he can't be Usain and I don't see Usain passing out any tips.

Also last time I check no current coach is a pro either.

last but not least, this is for others to learn from, if you didn't learn anything that is fine.

[zack3mire]

Hi, what do you mean by knee doesnt rol forward , allows for knee to hip extention?

pls reply asap .. ty =D

[tttjump]

Knee to hip extension is a very important part of the start. It is the point when the hips are being driven forward. The knee of the forward leg will roll or rotate forward or drop down. The next thing you want to happen is the knee stop moving and then have the hip roll or rotate forward in front of the knee. Knee to hip extension. It is were the power is at the start of a race.

[zack3mire]

how about maintening a constant speed?

i usually start of very fast then feel abit tired around the middle... how do i keep a constant speed?

[AntillRS]

I cant believe that a top rank athlete like Gay has so many holes in his technique. especially when his coach is Jon Drummond. Shouldnt these guys know better. I mean where are their heads?

One other thing. Is there any sprinter that, in your opinion, who had/has a really bad technique, but are still very fast?

[tttjump]

I wouldn't say bad technique, I would say areas of opportunity. The issue of pointing it out is one thing, the issue of how to improve is another. Just today I heard on ESPN that Darvis Patton is doing leg exercises to work on his explosiveness and then you see him run 6.61, back in 03 he ran 6.58. So in 6 years he hasn't improve in the 60 and in the 100 he has improved from 10.00 in 03 to 9.89 in 08. 6 years for .11 improvement. A better discussion would be how to improve in those areas.

[Zykxe]

Interesting video. But I actually have to disagree with some parts. Namely the part where it said that Tyson Gay landed flat footed.  Now I know he's not as fast as Bolt, but there's not a chance that he's moving that fast running flat footed. Running on the balls of the feat is essential to sprinting (obviously). No one could be as successful as Tyson Gay by sprinting flat footed. If I'm wrong please correct me. I love talking about stuff like this.

[tttjump]

What I mean by flat footed is that his heel touches down to the ground . He doesn't stay on the ball of the foot for the duration of ground contact. His right foot does it starting about the 5 step. His left foot doesn't do it until the end of the race.

[Zykxe]

So it's not constant? Because that would make more sense.

[tttjump]

right, that is why discussion are so important, I should have stated that instead of flat footed.

[Zykxe]

I agree about the discussion thing. That's how I know most of the stuff I know. Sure, some from research (although that's usually boring), but most of it just from talking to experienced runners.

[tttjump]

Now the fun part, why do you think I would point that out as something that may have cause him to run slower than Usain?

[Zykxe]

Because it made a difference in his time (I'm not saying that he would have won, but it would have helped nonetheless). Running form is important when shaving time off of any event. I think that was the whole point of the video, to show the difference between successful and not-as-successful running form. Am I right? (I could be totally wrong, it's happened before)

[tttjump]

Tyson Gay should be faster than Usain. His start is killing him along with other issues that don't allow him to generate max force and apply them to get max return. The foot thing is almost like running with a limp decreasing his stride length.

[heretowatchnot]

I saw "arms don't swing", did you mean arms don't swing too much cause he is swinging his arm, how would you run without swinging your arms

[tttjump]

How you move the arms makes the difference.

Some people do swing the arms back and forth, some people pump the arms back and forth and others drive the elbows back and the hand return forward.

[theginzamo]

which one of these is best, or does it depend on the person?

[Zykxe]

Because it shows the difference between a successful runner and a not-as-successful running due to form. Not that I'm saying Tyson would have won if he had better form, I personally believe Bolt still would have won.  But the point of the video was to show successful running form and the different points of it. Am I right? I could be wrong, it's happened before.

[tttjump]

That is it, how a little thing could make a huge difference.

[AntillRS]

Thanks a lot. People always say these things without explaining why they work. Usuallly because they dont know themselves. I'm definately subscribing

[tttjump]

A lot of people repeat what they hear without understanding it. Next time you are out running lift your knees and see what happens. Running faster is not one of them. Is high knees a good thing? yes. But it is how the knee get high that becomes the issue. If you apply force properly the results is high knees. If you lift the knees high, you won't apply enough force to the ground. You still may run fast by lifting your knees but not as fast as you could by not lifting them intentionally.

[AntillRS]

I'm impressed that you can spot such little things that can make a diference. first video on youtube that goes into such detail. Could you explain to me how lifting the knees and keeping the foot close to the butt on the recovery, is so important in sprinting. I've heard people say it lengthens the stride but i can't see how

[tttjump]

I don't think lifting the knees is important. The knee is going to come up, the height that it reaches is speed dependent, by lifting it up you slow down the foot recovery speed, this will reduce your stride length. The faster speed your foot hits the ground at the greater the force you get and the longer the stride length becomes. As the heel of the foot raises up, the knee should be traveling forward at the same time. This action speeds of foot recovery speed.

[manodahu]

Hey,What do you mean when you say knee rolls forward and delays hip movement?( at 0:07)

;)

[tttjump]

At the start of the race,what the knee does is very important to how and when and if will drive your hips forward. You want knee to hip extension to create power to drive the hips and maintain a forward lean(body). Before you can perform knee to hip extension, the acute shin angle will decrease, the shorter the decrease the sooner you can start knee to hip extension and drive your hips forward.that time period is when your knee is rolling forward. Some sprinters knee moves backwards not forwards

[blitzac2005]

wow, you are spot on these videos. I HAVE to subscribe, u really know your stuff.

[sprenten]

The POSE method is garbage. Bolt runs with stiffness period end of story and his arm swing is a reflection of forces acting on hip and torso, just as every other runner does.

[tttjump]

Nothing in the video or comments about POSE.

Video shows difference between two fast people and why one is faster than the other.

How does Bolt land with a stiff and straight leg? So it is not the end of the story for a lot of people. If you don't think there is anything more to it that is fine also.

His arm influnce the hip and torso action and is not a reflection of it.

[rich187113]

Nice.

[Lilpistolz]

Godd Video Thanks

[bouchdag99]

damn i love this video good job on the annotations spot on