A Zion People - Book of Mormon Evidence

[omiolo]

Mormon Tabernacle Choir flash mob -- fast forward to 3:30

[cwood4ever]

I really dont like to be Mormon anymore too much business and less religion now days. Too much PC bullshit, I want the Church to return to the olden days of Mormonism. They redid the Temple Ceremony got rid of all the good stuff, blood oath was awesome. I would be fine with polygamy. Nothing wrong with having a few woman.

[wachnathan]

In other words don't look for evidence if its true only hold it in your hart as truth basically with out question. Whats wrong with this picture thats getting people to not question but suck it in on faith even though there is not a shred of proof to back up the mormon claims. You know what happpens to liers right?

[talledu]

The title of this video is deceptive. This video has nothing to do with evidences of the BOM. The title should be "Several LDS Scholars Discuss the Way They Believe the People of Ancient America Lived, No Evidence Necessary".

[omiolo]

More recently George Potter and Richard Wellington, citing a non-LDS scholar, point out that the ancient word "shajir" means a "valley or area abounding with trees and shrubs."

[omiolo]

Several decades ago Dr. Hugh Nibley pointed out that the combination "shajer is quite common in Palestinian place names; it is a collective meaning 'trees,' and many Arabs (especially in Egypt) pronounce it shazher." In typical ancient style, the word varied in spelling according to dialect and geography but always referred to either a collection of tress or a weak but reliable water supply (which would be necessary for the growth of a clump of trees).

[Reklaw008]

John Sorenson (who is also interviewed consistently in these videos) recently published a paper entitled "A Complex of Ritual and Ideology Shared by Mesoamerica and the Ancient Near East" in the Sino-Platonic Papers No. 195 (Department of East Asian Languages and Civilizations, University of Pennsylvania). This is a non-LDS academic series.

[Reklaw008]

Brian Stubbs is interviewed in other segments of this video. His research has indicated Semitic connections to Uto-Aztecan language, including Hebrew, Arabic, and Egyptian. His work has received positive attention from Roger Westcott, former president of the Linguistic Association of Canada and the United States. Such evidence would indicate a Near Eastern connection to Mesoamerica. But I'm sure mdlinks knows more about linguistics than either Stubbs or Westcott...

[Reklaw008]

And it is "pseudo", not "sudo". At least spell it correctly.

[StorminMormin91]

And when you call us Morons, you are applying that to millions of men, women and children. Aren't you just a small little man.

Way to show how smart and credible you are. Pshh.

[RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS]

Many ancient American traditions about the wounded wandering God who visited long ago, says that he taught them to care for one another, to love, help & be kind to each other, etc. That's one of the common elements to traditions about this bright wounded God who said that he'd someday return. These traditions are all over North, Central & South America too! He Walked the American, L. Taylor Hansen; Joshua M. Bennet, The Gospel of the Great Spirit; You Tube: Christ As Cosmic Cruiser

[mdlinks]

Daniel Peterson was on to something. It was almost too good to be true. Well, maybe because it was. Funny to hear all these people talk as if these BOM civilizations actually existed. Still no evidence that any ruins discovered are tied to the BOM. The only sudo archeologists that tie them together are LDS. How about some real archeologists that don't have a hidden agenda? Didn't see it on NG channel. Ask yourself why no one but Mormons say the BOM and these ruins have anything in common.

[StorminMormin91]

Funny to hear you speak as if you know it all.

Don't you think it could be that ignorant people tend to hate us and these non-LDS scholars are hesitant to get into it because 1) it deals with religion and 2) supposed guilt by association?

If you knew something about the Book of Mormon text than you wouldn't be so quick to say that the Nephites in the record never existed. There is plenty of linguistic evidence to show that the BOM is a true record of antiquity.

[mdlinks]

@StorminMormin91

Fine, prove it. Show me one non LDS Study that will link the two. If there is so much evidence, then any scholar would not mind putting his neck out there. Deals with religion? Uh, so does the bible and there is lots of evidence that those peoples really existed.

Funny to hear you speak as if you know what I know. You don't.

I think most people that hate LDS probably have good reason to, but you are blinded by your indoctrination so can't see facts.

[StorminMormin91]

Right, so explain to me how it is that the book of Mormon is full of hebrew poetical and linguistc evidences, when Joseph couldn't have even known what they were? Chiasmus, cognitive accusitive, if-and clauses, words relating to other hebrew words, words with actual Hebrew meaning, the list goes on. These have all been shown to be common in Hebrew language and writings by Non LDS scholars.

[mdlinks]

@StorminMormin91

LOL, it was translated with a rock. Gold plates, hidden in a secret room translated with a rock. And the plates were not there most of the time, and the rock came from a well Joseph was digging. He used the rock to look for buried treasure.

Fairy tales man, and you just swallow. LOL

Angels, secret handshakes, hidden gold, white salamander. Might as well believe in LOR too. :)

[StorminMormin91]

Rock, Urim and Thummim, are you going to apply that to the Bible too? There are plenty of things in the Biblical text that most would think were crazy.

It would seem to me though, that you don't believe in that either, so I guess arguing the point to someone who is not willing to look at the evidence or refute my argument, and who doesn't even believe, is pointless.

[mdlinks]

@StorminMormin91

evidence? are you nuts? he used a rock he found in a well to translate the BOM. A rock, do you not see that as strange? Take away all the other things like secret room filled with gold books and angels. It was a rock. A rock, not a UandT. Learn your own history before you talk.

[mdlinks]

@mdlinks

From Wiki:

Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,[26] found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.[27] This stone may still be in the possession of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.[28]

[Reklaw008]

"A rock, not a UandT"

It was both. Martin Harris spoke of using the seer stone for convenience, while Oliver Cowdery spoke of using the Urim and Thummim.

[Reklaw008]

As for translation, I suggest you read Royal Skousen's research on the original BoM manuscripts. He is by far the leading expert on the translation process according to the manuscripts. Then, you can go on to Richard Lloyd Anderson's "Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses." You seem hung up with Smith using a "rock" to translate, but ignore that eleven people actually saw the plates and never denied their testimony of them.

[mdlinks]

@StorminMormin91

Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed "seer stones" in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure.[19] Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white stovepipe hat, putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.[20]

[StorminMormin91]

Yes, HIRED, not actively going out to seek treasure.

[mdlinks]

@StorminMormin91 haha, oh man, you are delusional. It was his occupation.

He found a stone put it in his hat and looked for buried treasure.

He used sticks too. He was hired as that is what he told people he did. So they hired him. What part of this magic did he use to translate the hidden golden book? He used the exact same method.

Are you suggesting he was not a treasure looker because people hired him? Huh? That makes not sense to a sane person.

And I learned that at BYU, not Wikipedia.

[StorminMormin91]

Also, many prominent and even religious people were in this hobby of treasure seeking. Don't just trust everything you read on wikipedia without actually doing some in-depth study.

[StorminMormin91]

Seriously, to try and say that a farm boy with a third grade education could write a 500+ page book, 54 chapters dealing with detailed war accounts, 21 historical, 55 on visions and prophecies, 71 on doctrine, and 21 on Christ's ministry, all in 60 working days, having witnesses of the record that never recanted even when they became disaffected with Joseph and the Church, is quite unreasonable on your part.

[mdlinks]

@StorminMormin91 LOL

you are stalling.

No proof, so you can't answer. Show me one non LDS Study that will link the two. If there is so much evidence, then any scholar would not mind putting his neck out there.

[mdlinks]

@StorminMormin91

to say that he found a hidden room filled with gold books that an angel showed him is reasonable? are you kidding?

[StorminMormin91]

Um, he found it in a hill, first of all.

Seriously, do you know what you are talking about?

[mdlinks]

@StorminMormin91

Uhm no shit sherlock. It was described as a stone room. Buried in the hill. I didn't say it was not in the hill. I said it was in a secret room. Do a little learning before trying to discuss your own history.

[mdlinks]

@StorminMormin91

You don't even know your own Church's history. Have you ever even bothered to read the volumes History of the Church? Have you not been to carthage to hear how Joseph went out fighting shooting 3 men after consuming a bottle of wine he shared with the others in the room?

Do you know anything at all other than what you are told? Ever actually do any study of the subject? And you have the gall to tell me I think I know so much, it appears I do to you, as you know nothing. :P

[StorminMormin91]

Um yes, I have heard all of these things.

The Church never hides the fact about the shoot out. for heavens sakes, its even in some primary manuals!

You should get to know the actual rules concerning the Word of Wisdom at that time, and just what one was allowed to drink. Also, does Moses getting drunk disqualify him as a prophet?

So yes, I HAVE studied. I've heard these same arguments ever since joining , so don't even go there.

[mdlinks]

@StorminMormin91

Do you read? I didn't say anything other than he drank wine. He also smoked cigars. He was known for drinking beer and wine. It is not an argument it is a fact. But Mormons will deny it all day, why? Cause they don't know their own history. In fact some will testify to me that it is a lie. LOL

I do know the actual WOW, and the only reason it was changed was because of the repeal of prohibition. You should really learn your own history if you are going to talk about it.

[StorminMormin91]

Smoking. Now that's rich. I'd like to see some evidence of that. You have yet to give documentation.

What, do you listen to everything an anti-mormon book or site tells you?

Come on now. And you can cuss me out all you want. Doesn't change the fact that you haven't a clue.

[StorminMormin91]

Mdlinks, I want you to watch DefendingLDTruth's video here on youtube about the death of Joseph Smith, both parts. And then get back to me.

[StorminMormin91]

The tobacco that Joseph callled for for Willard Richards was going to be used for medicine, not to smoke!

"'Brother Markham...go get the doctor [i.e., Richards] something to settle his stomach,' [said Joseph,] and Markham went out for medicine. When he got the remedies desired...[the] Carthage Greys gathered round him, put him on his horse, and forced him out of the town at the point of the bayonet." So, Markham could not return, and none of the remedies he had obtained reached the jail"

[mdlinks]

@StorminMormin91

More cult teachings? You know what they tell you. You only know what they tell you. Ask your self this if you have a brain cell left in your head. Why would the Church take the volumes of History of the Church, and take out all mention of alcohol and tobacco use by JS and the other church leaders?

Why hide that? Why change the book that JS himself wrote? Why hide the fact that he smoked and drank?

Go get yourself an old copy of the book, read it. I have. Too Afraid to know?

[StorminMormin91]

Apparently it took you five tries to actually make a coherent response.

It was never hidden, obviously, seeing as how I saw it in the History of the Church and other publications that the Church has in its archives.

Seriously, if you are going to continue acting uncivil and foolish and not actually bring anything substantial up and combat my rebuttals, then I am done with you.

[mdlinks]

A glass looker who searches for buried gold ends up finding a buried gold book. A scryer who finds a magic rock that when put in a hat shows him things. That same magic rock is used to translate the golden book. A little more than coincidence most people would say.

BTW, JS built a bar in his mansion house. Guess he loved him some beer. Must have given BY the idea to sell alcohol. BY, actually made money though, A Lot of money off the sale of alcohol. But now, no more beer for the Morons. LOL

[StorminMormin91]

Again, you don't get it. No one is denying it, but you are taking things out of the context of history, and when the history shows you to be in error, you simply ignore it.

[mdlinks]

@StorminMormin91

Rebuttal, what rebuttal? You post edited history that was revised for Morons. You being one of those morons, you swallow whatever revised version of history they tell you. You have no rebuttal retard. YOu have yet to show anything other than you are a sheep.

In fact fuck you! You pompous prick. Fucking hypocrite, rude ass hole and now you want to run away when someone is rude back to you. Fuck off. Stupid fuck and your magic underwear. :P LOL

[mdlinks]

@mdlinks

Now I'm done with you. :P

[StorminMormin91]

Keep calling me a moron and swearing at me.

It's ok, so persecuted they the prophets before. They did the same thing to Christ.

Have fun when you meet your Maker. I hope by then you've learned something, or it will be a very sorry day indeed.

I feel sorry for you.

By the way, I'm not endowed, jerk.

[Reklaw008]

"Fuck off"

When you are done acting like a child, perhaps you could actually have an intelligent, civil conversation. Such a display of vulgar, adolescent behavior worthy of a pre-pubescent teenager cuts largely destroys your credibility.

[StorminMormin91]

You should get to know your 19th century history and stop listening to the Tanners or whoever it is you follow.

[StorminMormin91]

he text of the Word of Wisdom forbids "strong drink" (D&C 89:5, 7), which was initially interpreted as distilled beverages (hard liquor). Beer, unfermented or lightly fermented wine, and cider were considered "mild drinks" (D&C 89:17) and therefore acceptable (note that verse 17 specifically permits "barley..for mild drinks"). The complete prohibition of alcoholic drinks of any kind only became part of the Word of Wisdom following the temperance movement of the late 19th and early 20th centuries

[mdlinks]

@StorminMormin91

LOL, more you don't know. The only thing that caused the WOW to be enforced was the Profit was pissed that Utah voted to repeal prohibition.

Do you not know anything about the religion you claim as your own? Have you not bothered to study your own Church?

People in Cults don't know they're in Cults. Here is a test, each time you hear the words, The church teaches us, or The Prophet or General Authorities say... Replace that with The Cult, and The Supreme Leader/Leaders say...

[mdlinks]

@StorminMormin91

Amazing, so JOE could smoke and drink all he wanted, and he did of course, as well as the rest of them. BY made all his money off the sale of alcohol. But then one day God said no more/ LOL Are you serious, one day you can't drink beer and one day you can?

That is as ignorant as saying one day Black Men can't have authority and one day they can. Same illogical bullshit from the cult. Sheep swallow whatever explanation they are given as they are too brainwashed to find truth.

[Reklaw008]

"lots of evidence that those peoples really existed"

This is rather broad. There is no direct evidence that Moses ever existed or that the Exodus happened. Considering this is one of the pivotal points of Judaism (and consequently Christianity), that is a big thing to not have evidence for.

[Reklaw008]

The non-LDS scholars would need to be associated with the Book of Mormon texts. However, there is much to the evidence than Mesoamerican archaeology. Methodist scholar Margaret Barker presented a paper entitled "Joseph Smith and Preexilic Israelite Religion" a few years back that pointed out several ancient theological teachings found in the BoM that were removed from the OT due to political and theological reforms.

[THELDSLIFE]

@ mdlinks - And its unfortunate how correct Jesus was when he gave the parable of the 10 virgins... 5 were foolish and 5 were wise.

We will do whatever we can to help the 5 who are being foolish but we have no control over free will. People will choose to be unprepared. It's not a prophecy that we LIKE to accept but this has become true in our day, unfortunately for those who make unrighteous choices.

We will continue to go after the 5 who have so far proven unprepared... Matt. 25: 1-17

[mdlinks]

@THELDSLIFE

Really, is that why you TOLD be to Join the Catholic Church?

lol

[THELDSLIFE]

Yup because if it's not us, it's them.

Only LDS and Catholics claim priesthood authority from God; (In case you don't know what that is, Priesthood = authority to act in God's name. The Catholics trace priesthood authority back to Peter, James and John but they do not believe that there was an Apostacy or "loss" of this priesthood.

And since you seem to share with me just how wonderfully more successful you presume them to be, then you should join them and cease being an Island unto yourself.

[mdlinks]

@THELDSLIFE" And since you seem to share with me just how wonderfully more successful you presume them to be, then you should join them and cease being an Island unto yourself."

Oh shut up, YOU never said anything about Catholics or how they were blessed. You just said your church was rich, and that was an indication of God Blessing your church. But you lack the intelligence to extend that logic to say the same of other denominations. Typical, you are dishonest and rather than come clean you lie

[mdlinks]

LESS THAN 1% of ADULTS IN USA ARE MORMONS! and 50% ARE INACTIVE LOL WAY TO GO MORmONS!

[brian8793]

Many are called, but FEW are chosen.

I wouldn't care if there were only 14 members. The truth is the truth.

[ToThisEndWasIMormon]

To save a City, Abraham plead with the Lord to save Sodom... "And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for tens sake."

In this case, it wasn't that there wasn't 10 in the world who were righteous, but not even 10 righteous people were found in the city.

The numbers of the Lord's followers would always be few or Satan isn't doing a very good job at keeping them from the truth.

[mdlinks]

@brian8793

If Mormons didn't care how many members there were, you would have the Mormons stop talking about how they are the fastest growing Christian Church in US. Which of course, they are not but they keep saying it. But rather than find out the truth, which is easy enough to do, they just keep on saying it. Pretty big sign that living in ignorance is bliss.

[brian8793]

Living by The Laws of God is bliss.

[mdlinks]

@brian8793

Sure, which god and which laws? The made up ones? You must be very happy then.

[brian8793]

Elohim, not the made up ones(hundreds of churches all across the world), and YES, I am very happy with HIS rules.

If you were here I would give you a BIG OLE hug, just to prove it to you : )

[mdlinks]

@brian8793

Oh, And I'd give you one right back you big galoot. :P

[brian8793]

Much better than arguing!

[Yunginspirit]

@mdlinks: That ties in nicely with the Parable of the Ten Virgins. Five wise virgins (50%) with their lamps trimmed & filled with oil were prepared to attend the wedding feast with the Bridegroom. The five foolish virgins (50%) were not prepared & thus were shut out of the wedding, weeping. The Bridegroom is the expected Messiah Jesus Christ & He will soon come to receive His Church (few in number) & take them to heaven. Unfortunately, only 50% of the saints will be prepared to meet Him. Matt 25

[Bureyeanne]

Jan 25, 2001 ... Christians were 34.5

Not sure your point. I suppose truth is subject to popular vote?

[mdlinks]

@Bureyeanne

well the Mormons go on and on about how they are the fastest growing church in the world, ( they aren't) and how the whole world will have the chance to hear the message ( impossible) so, it is easy to show that in 200 years, the Mormon church is still one of the smallest Christian ( I am being nice, as they are usually not included in that group) denominations in the US.

[tradercris]

What a racket. I wonder how one gets a paid position in the LDS? There must be much competition for such jobs though, imagine, getting paid to babble fairy tales!

[Bureyeanne]

One could say that about every religion, every church. One could say that about psychologists, sociologists, physical anthropologists, English majors, history majors, art history, art etc.

[qtous]

What are you talking about?

God told us to be a missionary church and we do not provide service for $. Missionaries spend their own money and people who are not missionaries donate their time for the work. No church paycheck comes to me for uploading all of these videos on my channel. It's a "Labor of Love." that I feel compelled to do because I want any and ALL others to have the same joy that I now do.

[THELDSLIFE]

(If Satan had to be 100% honest)

Hey at the end of the day, just deny deny deny!

Its a lot easier than discovery; it prompts no one to action; it keeps one in ignorance; it may stifle one's progress; it lacks any actual thought; it helps a person refrain from any pleasant feelings;

Deny it all, folks! That's the name of the game. Besides, if someone joins this Mormon church, I hear that they have to walk this straight and narrow and we all know that walking uprightly before God is not possible.