AR 15 Direct impingement VS Gas Piston part 1

[TheGeohart]

the XM16A1's we carried were troublesome to us, because we had lousey training, 2)the bore and chamber was not chrome plated, and so corrosion would hinder the extraction of the brass, and the powder would enhance the corrosion, besides never has a weapon system been put into combat, without testing it was designed to use on Airforce bases, but we were given them to prove the system, I cried the day they took away my M-14, heavy, yes, but never failed to work, too many men went into body bags,

[Blakmajik4]

The thing is..... unless we have a civil war, civilians aren't going to war anytime soon. Even if we did get into a war, we aren't going to be crawling through mud bogs or dragging our guns through the desert. The DI system works fine in our situation.

[SilentHunter658]

The one thing I liked about the FN I used when I was in the military was that it didn't shit where it ate. I'd fire hundreds and hundreds of rounds and it wouldn't jam on me, which is not to say that a DI won't, but to say that a piston rifle can be reliable.

[dcpinner]

Really like this video buddy.

[dcpinner]

I don't know much about the Gas Piston system vs D.I. but aren't AK-47's Gas Piston as well? I've just heard they are sooo reliable. What makes their Gas Piston system better than the AR set up? I'd assume because it is a larger caliber gun than the AR it's pretty ruff on the AK as well?

[esh325]

@dcpinner Having a gas piston design doesn't automatically make a rifle more reliable, or less reliable.

[Iriesushi]

@dcpinner

PWS.....the ak 47 of ARs!!

[Blakmajik4]

@dcpinner The AK-47 is so reliable because of two reasons: 1. It has very few parts (I think 14) compared to all the parts in the AR-15, and 2. The AK-47's parts have a lot of play between them. The AR-15 parts are tightly fit together. The gas-piston isn't exactly what makes the AK so much more reliable.

[ripcord420]

It is a US design. It was dedesigned be Eugene Stoner who worked at armorlite out of CA in the 1950s. He was a former U.S. Marine. The design started in his garage as the M8 where first used the D.G.I. system. He then made some changes and called it the AR10 and the AR15. Colt got the design and built for the army as the M16.

[pkeady]

Gas Piston is cleaner and cooler than direct impingement since the system is not using dirty gas to operate the action. Very simple difference.

[ripcord420]

@pkeady It still gots really hot and dirty at the gas block.

[pkeady]

@ripcord420 It has to get hot somewhere and it's better at the gas block than at the bolt. Still runs cleaner and cooler where it counts.

[elox02]

The repr comes in a Russian round? 7.62x54? I thought it only came 7.62x51? Hope you got the one that doesn't drop mags. My friends m6 ripped the rims off of two shells and ha a double feed in the first 160 rounds. I'll never buy a piston AR

[artilleryman1842]

@elox02 sorry. meant 51. misspoke-typed. and nope i haven't had any real problems with mine. the only thing i don't like is that LWRC guarantees 100% return to zero, and mine is off slightly.

[artilleryman1842]

What say you about LWRC's gas piston system in their rifles? I own a REPR in 7.62x54 and seems to be fairly accurate especially at long distances, with minimal torque compared to some of my other rifles, as well as having low recoil for the cartridge.

[esh325]

I think in most designs the bullet has already left the barrel before the operating parts begin to cycle. I doubt the M1 Garand and M14 are unique in that. The M1 Garand and M14 were great designs, but they are far outdated compared to what we have today. In military trials, the M1 Garand was noted to fail badly in sand and mud contrary to what people like to believe. There were no other alternatives

[murpheysmuskets]

@esh325 I wouldn't call them "far outdated" Most GP's work exactly the same. Despite what gun or configuration they might be set up in.

[esh325]

@murpheysmuskets Yes, perhaps not far outdated, but outdated. Having to use tools just to service your piston is not the best design like on the M14. Not much benefit to such a design. Yes, they generally work the same, but they have small variances. Some have the op rod connected to the bolt, some don't.

[deej1478]

while i am not expert by any means but my pws woodland serious with direct impingement works like a dream please someone explain the need to spend so much more for a piston version while cool and high-tech i dont see how it could be realistically more reliable when its already reliable i believe it technically is but i don't see you ever needing that extra reliability now in battle you cant be reliable enough but is that the only reason its already a great design

[esh325]

@deej1478 I guess there is no difference if you are shooting it on the bench.

[murpheysmuskets]

@deej1478 The gas pistons are actually the old tech. Gas tubes didn't come out till much later.

[joey011582]

I think this video is more of a personal preference than fact. Also most of the info you stated is wrong. First, heat does the most wear and tear. Second, you are wrong about the gas tube length on the carbines. Third, the effects of the piston has on accuracy is BS, the longer the barrel the more barrel torque you you get. Gas piston is the future of the system, DI was the main reason for the failures that were suffered in Veitnam. The gas piston AR is he best of both worlds.

[esh325]

@joey011582 A lot the stuff in the video is more theoretical then fact, yes. Every rifle design is different even if it shares a piston. Not all piston designs have large massive parts like the M1 Garand. The Garand is an older design then the AR. Can't be compared. So one can't generalize all piston designs as being less accurate. Having a gas piston design doesn't necessarily mean it will be reliable. Especially if it's a poor design.

[murpheysmuskets]

@esh325 All gas pistons are "massive" when you compare to a little DI gas tube. I am going to have to do a fallow up video on this with my AUG clone. Its a GP gun.

[esh325]

@murpheysmuskets Yes, but the overall mass of newer designs is usually much less.

[murpheysmuskets]

@esh325 mmmm not always so. Milspec gp's are generally pretty heavy duty. The M1's GP while large isn't the heaviest metal out there. That's why shooting 165gr + through an M1 is risky. You have a good chance of bending your oprod. My AUG's GP while much smaller is made of much denser material, so they weigh about the same.

[esh325]

@murpheysmuskets I might be wrong about that. I'll have to compare my Garand and M1A to some of my other rifles. The Garand design was originally intended for a less powerful .276 and Garand had trouble redesigning his rifle for 30/06 at first. Not really his fault.

[jesselyle2186]

di is good for when you have to much muzzle rise

[brianbirc]

The Ak may not be the best long range rifle but looking at videos of Iraqi solders shooting positions many of them do not use the sights or aim at all or for that matter see the target. I do see the platform Saiga 12 (AK-47 12gauge) to be an accept no substitutions close range weapon.

[filipelsr]

That is why i like the FN-FAL so much... not even have to think about reliability...

[esh325]

@filipelsr It had trouble in the sand with the Israels, but none of us will need to carry a FAL in the sand anyways. It's still a very reliable rifle though. If it wasn't, then it wouldn't have been used by so many countries. I use to have a DSL FAL and it was a great gun.

[SonsOfLiberty65]

@murpheysmuskets i was thinking of getting an LWRC until i saw those comments up there. Are gas piston ARs as reliable as AKs?

[esh325]

@SonsOfLiberty65 I've never owned a piston AR, but you would have a hard time convincing me that something relatively recent as piston AR's can match the reliably of the AK. The AK has had 64 years of R&D put into it.

[CornMakesWhiskey]

Or you could just buy a gas piston rifle to begin with... Instead of spending a ton of money to completely refinish a DI rifle. If you like the garand style so much & want a 5.56 round why not get a Mini-14? Ruger redesigned the barrel & gas system recently so now it is quite accurate & just as reliable as ever.

[esh325]

@CornMakesWhiskey Still based off a dated design. And I would not say it's as robust and as reliable as the Garand and M14 after owning one. I would take an AR15 over it.

[Reynard13Fuchs]

Okay, good video, one question. Where did you get the information that the M4 was a design asked for by the UAE? The CAR-15 is the M4's true lineage, and those were first issued at the same times as the XM16E1. The UAE DID however want to buy M16A2 carbines that could fit the M203 grenade launcher, this request brought the M203 barrel profile cuts to the M4.

And, the Stoner DI system was never intended for carbine lengths anyway, of course lengthening would make it more reliable.

(Cont.)

[Reynard13Fuchs]

(Cont.)

The need for a piston system in an AR platform is centered around the reliability issues of DI Carbines and Pistols. The normal carrier isn't designed for this, true, but this issue has been addressed with some of the gas systems in carbine and sub-gun length AR platforms. Stronger Buffer Springs, Anti-carrier tilt buffers, or shorter carriers that have lower mass.

Also, the piston never contacts the bolt carrier, only the separate operating rod.

[markhluber]

Great Video, very informative! I <3 Guns!

only til the end of the video did i notice the riffles were on a pool table. :)

[semiautoriflelover1]

I owned Colt brand AR15s for 10 years and never had one single stoppage ever with them, then one day I found out the system was called Direct impingement , I guess that was supposed to make me sell them, it didn't. I had no clue the rifles were supposed to jam every other round like many guys claim, mine sure never have.

[cliffcox66]

@joeratti Actually LMT made post LWRC fixed all the problems.

[murpheysmuskets]

@joeratti I tried to pm you but your channel isn't available. Have you ever used your LWRC's in combat? Have you ever had them full of dirt, sand or mud? If not you cant speek to reliability. I am not saying they wont work, or they aren't good guns. What I am saying is the AR system is not configured "internally" to support a piston system. Can it yes. Is there any advantage to it. NOBODY has proven that conclusively. In fact there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Not trying to butt heads

[semiautoriflelover1]

@esh325 I've noticed that many of these so called new wonder guns never seem to ever live up to the price or the headlines, the bushmaster ACR is junk, the FN Scar seems the best of all, the piston ARs like LWRC, POF all have had major issues and have had to go through upgrades, they seem to get a free pass while the M16 rushed into service never had a chance with many people. SIG 556 is complete and utter garbage, If I ever see a SIG worker I will punch them in the balls, waste of $1700.

[esh325]

@semiautoriflelover1 I held the ACR and it was pretty heavy for a plastic gun. I held the SCAR too. It was pretty neat. Held the HK416 and it was light. It was like 2500$ Dollars though. If I had the cash I might have just got it for the cool factor, lol. I think the problem with the SCAR and ACR is that they aren't THAT much better then the M4 or M16. The M4 and M16 can easily be upgraded to a piston or what ever. Folding stock is the only thing u can't upgrade easily I think.

[Wulfkinxwartooth]

@murpheysmusket check out ADCOR BEAR they eliminated Carrier tilt and is free flouted....saying that your going to make a DI as reliable as a Piston design simply isn't true AR-15 family has come along way sense Vietnam but the gun releases carbon back into the receiver that starts friction between parts which semi auto isn't a deal when you get to full auto it starts jamming up

[Wulfkinxwartooth]

@murpheysmuskets they weren't originally designed to fire a .50BMG but look at armlite they sure found a convenient way to rig it up its all about designs lately people have been getting into pistons because of the ACR trials where the m4 carbine compared to the other rifles preformed badly, with a piston you can still get sub MOA ...weight its SLIGHTLY heavier but not enough to be a problem its all about designs there's plenty of rifles manufactures to improve on

[murpheysmuskets]

@joeratti Sorry LWRC still has problems. There is no perfect methood of operation. Lastly the AR15/M16 was built from the ground up around the DI system. If you knew anything about firearms you would see the problems converting it to a piston system would create. Try not to believe all the marketing pitches you hear.

[Toyman07]

LOL! Still so much obvious bias toward Piston systems..Yup I'm sure all you armchair Youtube experts out there know way more than the engineers and designers of these gun systems and by the people who have own and shot thousands of rounds in their PS AR's..

All I see is the same old shit..Hatred toward anything new..

[semiautoriflelover1]

@Toyman07 Piston ARs are just the fad of last week, the new FAD is this new Berreta rifle that is supposed to replace every gun in the world, I guess it's the cats meow much like the ACR was supposed to be, oh wow, quick change barrel, what complete nonsense, you're in a war and you lean over to Fred and ask him for the longer barrel, ok guys timeout I have to change my barrel then rezero.

[esh325]

@semiautoriflelover1 Yeah, the barrel change thing is really only practical for machine guns I think. The ACR and the SCAR will likely get no where. The HK416 is one of the only new rifles that's been by adopted by the Marines and some other countries around the world.

[semiautoriflelover1]

@esh325 The Scar 7.62x51 is being used in the field, I like that rig but $2000? You can get AR15 uppers with quick change barrels, it never returns to zero doing that, better off just having another upper.

[esh325]

@semiautoriflelover1 Yeah, I heard the SCAR-H is being used, but the SCAR-L was what got cancelled from being used in the field I think. I didn't know they made quick barrel change AR's. What company makes them? That really makes the SCAR pointless then.

[jheetman]

putting in a stiffer buffer spring will increase the load that your bolt has to take, also, there is no piston in an AR platform, unless you want to call the bolt itself a piston.

[crashtest2302]

Look at the HK-416, it has a gas piston and is highly reliable and the SEALs use it

[Yuritower77]

do those modifications slow the rate of fire?

[Jayr0cc187]

Good vid, thanks for the time and effort to explain this concept. 

[jimmyhoffa9]

@mistabillysbeast some designs have it so the piston is constantly in contact with the bolt, but i think permantent attachment makes dissassembly harder.

[esh325]

@TheQ3XXX The piston goes a lot farther back then that. Eugene Stoner actually built some prototypes for the army, and they were rejected I believe. The Taiwanese also adopted as a gas piston M16 type rifle as early as 1975.

[esh325]

@mistabillysbeast Some piston designs are like that in the AR15. The thing about pistons and AR15's is no one design is standard.

[esh325]

@He101A Not nearly as much as 400, but around 200 you loose. The muzzle velocity is still very high though. The M4 is still very capable of hitting targets out to 500m's. Maybe it's because I only have a pencil barrel AR15, but it still gets hot enough. I have a video where my 20 inch Colt SP-1 is smoking.

[HyperInflationNation]

Awesome video - I learned alot. Thank you!

[longtrangm1a]

awsome video man, i feel the same as you, and i also love del-ton great company



[bms284]

A few things to add. Other easy fixes to bolt bounce/ excessive pressure on the key of carbine length AR's is to add an adjustable gas block/ or tube, or to add a pigtail gas tube (both relatively cheap). But best way to improve your AR as you hinted at is to buy a barrel with a rifle or intermediate/ midlength gas system. I personally ditched my 16" YHM bbl and went to Noveske 18.5"ers on all my AR's this improves function as well as accuracy. AR was designed to be a 20" gun not a 16" gun.

[0mgwtfbbq21]

i see why the USMC issue the m16a4 instead of m4, because its longer, so the gas tube is longer, makes sense

[blakkmask]

most piston systems have a you remove the gas rings on the bolt and replace them with a provided spring, so you whole comment about the op-rod "slamming" the bolt is off.

[bms284]

@blakkmask True, however, whats your opinion as to why piston systems are supreme? I use to run an Osprey on one of my AR's to reduce gas blow by on my 11.5" SBR, and ended up ditching it for a pigtailed gas tube, heavy buffer, and a PMI gas buster charging handle totaling around $125 compared to the $350 price tag of the Osprey-416. That and the Osprey would not fit under my Troy TRX extreme. Just trying to get some opinions as to why some people like the gas pistons.

[blakkmask]

@bms284 Adams Arms Retrofit Kit...About the same size as a DI system.

[bms284]

@blakkmask I just looked at Adams Arms website and it looks as though the switch block is railed. My TRX is 11" long so I need a low profile gas block to fit under it because Troy does not feel it necessary to allow clearance. I suppose I could always go with a Daniel Defense handguard but have never used them and I know their very expensive. Thanks for the advice.

[mrchen73]

Great video mate! Always wanted to know more about DI and piston systems.

[jennalla]

get ti the piont most fu ck head who watch this crap knows what is what,dont have to explain the whole story. just make your pint what is good n bad on each system

[murpheysmuskets]

@jennalla There are some people who watch vids like these to learn about things that they don't already know. This teaches them what is what AND what is good and bad. For everybody else it's just a refresher.

[elsinaloa23]

@murpheysmuskets Thank u for doing this ....I've read the commentsof those who negatively criticize the making of this video and it just proves the wide variety people who are ignorant to those want to have an more in-depth understanding of these two systems.

[SNAFU1775]

@murpheysmuskets My budy pointed this vid out to me and i just wanted to say that i own a gas piston LMT MRP upper system that works extreamly well and i have treated that weapon poorly during training and it out performs DI systems. Especialy the one i used in combat. but your tips on the DI systems are spot on. The thing about pistons. the conversions have a lot of the problems you stated, but uppers built for pistons do not. but are heavier and unless you run and gun why do you need a piston

[esh325]

@SNAFU1775 Since you have that experience, maybe you could make a video talking about it? Or showing a specific example where you thought a piston outperforms a DI. It would be interesting.

[SNAFU1775]

@esh325 hmmm. I think that ill do that the only thing that i have not tried with it is a water test though. and ill have to get a hold of a DI system as well. ill shoot you a message when i get it up. thanks for the idea.

[epicnessism101]

i think i'll stick to the trusty hk416 10.3 and the fn fs2000 comp scope

[murpheysmuskets]

@epicnessism101 The H&K 416 is a beast. However the Fs2000 can at times be more problematic than the M16/AR 15 at least the civilain version of it that I had.

[epicnessism101]

@murpheysmuskets yeah, i found a video with some guys in germany doing an hk416 vs m4 contest, the m4 ripped itself apart in round 2 :D lol. and yeah the f2000 is extremly frustrating if something goes wrong but i like it for how clean it is and the way the gun is built

[Alexn1067]

@epicnessism101 you do realize that video was created by HK, so naturally it was rigged to help push their product on ignorant people. Why else would the guy be wearing a protective face mask, obviously they rigged the test so that the M4 specifically would blow up.

[epicnessism101]

@Alexn1067 you realize that if thats really what you think, you might be the ignorant one? if you were alive during the vietnam war and if you where actually there you would know what i mean when i say that the m4 ripped itself apart.

[Alexn1067]

@epicnessism101 were you?

[murpheysmuskets]

@epicnessism101 The ONLY reason ANY AR15/M16 pattern rifle ever experienced any amount of malfunctions over the norm in the Vietnam war, was because the US government refused to use the correct type of gunpowder in the new 5.56mm round period. HK's Test was slightly slanted. I love HK but its not good to be a "Fan Boy" to any one platform as they all have their uses.

[willbond]

@epicnessism101 Do you own an hk416 and an fs2000?

[epicnessism101]

@willbond no but i wish so bad. my cousin down in virginia does and i go down there all the time to shoot it :D

[willbond]

@epicnessism101 Yeah, I checked on gunbroker and they had ONE hk416 for sale and the guy wanted 4000 bucks for it. It would be nice, but..... :)

[bms284]

@willbond A true 416? I've seen the HK MR556 now and again, one on GB for $2300 right now. Their hard to come by and from my knowledge (probably inaccurate) the 416 is to the military's M-16 as the MR556 is to the civilian AR-15. Civilians cannot buy a true 416 because its a military grade weapon just like current production M-4's and M-16's. I could and am most likely not 100% right on this. I do know that you can get .22lr 416 look-a-likes and their about $500-700. But are designated .22lr

[Alexn1067]

@epicnessism101 trusty? you realize that its only been out for a few years. What tenure are you basing that opinion on?

[pathfinderLXXIV]

I'm in not refuting the reliability of the DI system but it does has it's flaws, particularly shitting where it eats. If you enjoy cleaning stick with the DI, it gives you plenty to keep you busy. IIRC the M16 was based on the AR10; a piston system in 7.62mm.

The M16/M4 is 5.56mm, so the comparison of the piston in the M1/M14 and the AR15 is a little skewed since the forces that drive the piston are less making it reasonable to use aluminum and not steel.

[mayito714]

The Ar-15 was not designed to have a Piston & rod as you have pointed out. Company Marketers who realize the popularity of the looks of the Ar-15 are trying to sell us another rifle. Also, the price difference between the two (2) is not justifiable. Spring, piston & rod is not worth $1,000...

[murpheysmuskets]

@mayito714 Thank You! I don't understand why that's so hard for people to understand!

[reeseman67]

@murpheysmuskets Glad someone else know's the M4 w/barrel notch and A1 profile (for M203) was designed as a Colt EXPORT for the United Arab Emirates. But the CARBINE gas system has been around since the XM177's/Colt Commando's, and the carbine length system is designed for the M4, i.e. 14.5" bbl, the 16" as you point out is best ran w/the MID-LENGTH (why didnt I study this more BEFORE I bought!), I'll be building a ground up w/Spikes lower, CMMG mid-length D.I., and go from there...GREAT VID!

[Alexn1067]

@mayito714 I completely agree. The gas piston AR (i.e. hk416) is at best a scam. Take a proven design, tweak it a bit, peddle a few urban myths to get the masses to buy into it and sell it back.

Practicality = 0% Marketing Scheme = 100%

[migkillertwo]

I agree with this video. AR-15 was designed as a DI system. Get a mini-14 or AK if you do not trust the DI system.

[mayito714]

Thanks for the explanation. However, investing the additional money and re-engineering to what is not the original design I would reconsider....

[murpheysmuskets]

@mayito714 Never said re-engineered. The whole video is about trying to get them back to the Original design. The AR platform was never designed to have a carbine length gas system.

[Tuxedo413]

Get a stag arms model 8, I did and never looked back, over 2000 rounds and no carrier tilt whatsoever, (paint wear was there)

[andersed1]

Thanks for the video. I have extensive experience with the M-16A2, and a lot of experience with the M1. Both systems have there Pros and Cons. I was amazed at how clean the M1's receiver was after firing off a few hundred rounds. You still have to clean it though, and the first comment I told my Dad after cleaning my M1 was how much I appreciated the M-16's simplicity in comparison.

[KrasHHH001]

I dont know shit about guns, but this is a great way to learn and to avoid poor or misdirected knowledge. Thanks for the upload.

[willbond]

Informative. I'm going to look into the heavier buffer/gas system length mods.

[murpheysmuskets]

@willbond If you lengthen you're gas system their is not much need for adjusting the buffer weights. In some cases its better not to. That part is just in the video for the ppl who cant afford a new barrel. For more info refer to some of my other AR vids or just pm me.I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have.Thanks for stopping by!

[raimundough]

Good video. I feel better now. I own a preban AR15 HBAR & an M1A. Both shoot excellent at 200 yards. Wanted an AK but not so much now... But 12ga in AK format (Saiga 12) is really fun.

[murpheysmuskets]

@raimundough Ya man! The AR is a great gun. Theirs a REASON its used by more developed countries than any other rifle in the world. The reason, even though its expensive it WORKS is USER FRIENDLY and HIGHLY MODULAR

[esh325]

The M4 was designed for the UAE? Huh? The US had been fooling around with shorter M16 variants since the CAR-15. I don't know if its necessarily true that a rifle will wear itself out if its a piston gun that isn't made out of steel. The SCAR and XCR have been around for a few years now and both are made of aluminum/polymer and I haven't heard of them wearing themselves out.

[murpheysmuskets]

@esh325 The M4 as we know it today was designed for the UAE. Yes the US had "fooled" around with carbine and shorter length rifles since the m16 was first adopted. But the M4 as we know it today was ordered by the UAE. Do your research. Also ALL firearms wear out. There are No exceptions. Quality Steel has the ability to flex and warp and then return to zero. Plastic/polymer and Aluminum do not. Thus less time before the firearms moving parts wear down and fail.

[esh325]

@murpheysmuskets Yes, all firearms wear out.

[esh325]

I suppose piston's for AR's are fine if they put R&D into it, but most designers haven't put any R&D to it and its a mess. Plus theres no standard piston design. For the AR, DI is better. The AR18 I think is a cheaper and better alternative if you're interested in a piston. I think overall for a rifle design, a gas piston design is superior. I don't believe for an infantry rifle that a DI has a significant advantage in accuracy.

[murpheysmuskets]

@FuckYou11288 PART2 ...in the amount of psi they can take as DI's.You put an overly heavy bullet or overly hot load in ANY new piston gun and you will bend the Op rod. Lastly, I am aware of the piston systems that have the spring inside them, but again you will have the force of the gun cycling acting upon the barrel causing it to torque.

[murpheysmuskets]

@FuckYou11288 1st off I hope you know guns better than you know English. ;-) 2nd, the ACR is a Semi DI (Not Purely GP). 3rd, just because the AK-47 will shoot when its filthy doesn't mean anything. Its horribly inaccurate and a clumsy excuse for a tactical weapon. Will it get the job done at 100m and closer? Yes, but the standard AK is so limited by its design that it can't be used very effectively on the modern battlefield. And the proof is history. Next, piston systems are just as limited...

[esh325]

@murpheysmuskets I think it's mostly a myth that the AK is horribly inaccurate, just like the AR is horribly unreliable. Neither are true. I don't think the Russians would design a weapon with the range of a SMG. If it wasn't effective on the modern battlefield, why would the Russians still be using it?

[murpheysmuskets]

@esh325 The Russians Use the AK-74 Its a whole different gun with better engineering and materials in its construction. That being said it is still cheap. While an upgrade from an ak-47 it is a cheap design made of hardened sheet metal (essentially) Russia is broke. They have nowhere near the defense budget the US has nor do they care to spend big money on a soldiers weapon, and history is proof of that. Lastly I owned an ak which i only recently sold and i can tell you that 100m+ accuracy dies

[esh325]

@murpheysmuskets The engineering and construction is very much the same with a few perhaps a few changes like the muzzle brake and different angled gas block, and different caliber of course. Look up hickok45, he is VERY accurate with an AK at 200 yards. There is nothing wrong with sheet metal designs. The Russians used machined steel receivers at one point and they offered no advantages over stamped steel. They considered new designs, but never went with them.

[murpheysmuskets]

@esh325 Obviously there is Human Factor to accuracy. But tests have shown when you take the human out and just have the two rifles side by side being fired remotely, The AR's edge on accuracy increases exponentially every 100m. Sorry, those are the facts. Whether you choose to believe them or not is your deal. Also I am not slamming the AK series of rifles. They were just never built to the standard of an AR15 or even an M14 or the H&K line, or FN2000, or the SCAR, FAMAS, Xm8, ACR, ect ect.

[esh325]

@murpheysmuskets No doubt the AR is more accurate, but how much accuracy is really needed in a combat rifle? I think Americans in general have ridiclous expectations when it comes to a rifle's accuracy.

[murpheysmuskets]

@esh325 Accuracy Durability and Functionality are Everything in a Infantry rifle. No you dont have to drive a pin @ 500m But if your weapon can do that think what it can do close in or on full auto. Saying accuracy is unimportant is foolish In war If you cant hit the Target before he hits you, your dead. why not help yourself out with the more accurate weapon. As evidenced by the kill ratio the American army has achieved in almost every war. BTW do you own or have you ever fired a AR 15

[esh325]

@murpheysmuskets You could turn that kill ratio around for a negative. In Vietnam, it took some 40,000 or some ridiclous amount of ammo for one 1 enemy killed. I have a Colt SP-1. It shoots kind of poor for an AR15. My AR10 is very accurate on the other hand. I'll admit that I don't have a ton of trigger time with the AR15 though.

[murpheysmuskets]

@esh325 Ah Vietnam. In Nam the way the army taught the solders to fight, IE "spray and pray" was a reflection on philosophy. Not the Weapon. In modern times we dominate the battlefields in terms of kill count. Though the army still teaches fire Superiority. Which is a variation of "spray and pray". Also The Quality of parts in an AR make all the difference. Big names dont mean good quality. I have shot bushys and Colts that make aks feel like heaven. Colt especially has quality control prblms

[esh325]

@murpheysmuskets I didn't think Colt was that bad usually, maybe I just got a bad one. I may sell my SP-1 for a M16A2 style rifle if I can't get it to shoot the way I want it to.

[murpheysmuskets]

@esh325 They didn't used to be but lately they have been turning out junk. In my humble opinion its because, like everybody else they have begun to outsource to foreign country's to save money. Not saying good guns don't come from overseas but what Colt is turning out these days is disappointing to say the least.

[Gieszkanne]

@murpheysmuskets

You do not dominate the battlefield because of the accuracy of the M16. More over the bombings. The USA is dominating but on the battlefield....I am not sure.

[esh325]

@murpheysmuskets While not an AK, I did shoot my VZ 58 to 200 yards and it couldn't hit the same target my AR10 could hit. It some what sap my confidence in the weapon. Perhaps you are right about the AK not being able to hit much at 200 yards. I'll have to see for myself.

[murpheysmuskets]

@esh325 At 200yards you should be able to hit a man siz target with an AK. Never said you couldn't. But you will not be able to engage a target the Size of a heart or an eye. An AR can do that out to 500m+ Again if its built properly, and as i said before name brand doesn't mean much. Colts quality Control has really been lacking the past few years. Some of there AR (3yearsand newer) can be borderline crap!

[esh325]

@murpheysmuskets My M1 carbine was able to get good accuracy out to 200 yards on man sized target, so the AK should defenetly be able to. The AR10 was able to hit a target much smaller then a man that I was barely able to see. I have it in one of my AR10 videos.

[Gieszkanne]

@murpheysmuskets

Here are many videos on youtube where you can see your troops in gun battle. And like you have already written it’s more "spray and pray" . So what for accuracy? I have read that in this sandy dusty area (afgh Irak) they have to clean the M4/M16 up to 3 times a day to keep them running. That sucks!!! As far as I know the M16 family is the only DI rifle world wide in service. All others have pistion s. Even the M14.

[ThaddeusMcSpalding]

Thanks for posting this. I'm looking to get started with the AR system and it seems like I could go with a good ol' fashioned DI and just get a couple after market mods to increase reliability.

[murpheysmuskets]

@ThaddeusMcSpalding No problem! And to be honest the DI system is actually better all around than a piston. I could write you a book on it if you wanted, but i just wanted to get the basics into a video for people to see before the go and spend the money to convert an AR to a piston system and increase the parts wear X2. If you have any other questions just pm me and i will take the time to tell you everything i know.

[ThaddeusMcSpalding]

@murpheysmuskets Thanks, man. Lol, I'm glad I saw this, instead of blindly going out and buying a piston thinking it'd be better and having the piston go to crap after a year or so lol.