This dudes far beyond nuts and should be watched carefully. Where his words come from is very dangerous and on the side of religious extremism and could possibly turn dangerous if they felt their religion was under attack, something similar to the Islamist extremists. Keep a close eye on this one and his hateful language against minority groups.
This guy goes too far with his own opinions. 1) Christians are not cowards, 2) the reason men from the world pursue christian women and any women for that matter is because of their unbridled lust, not because they ain't cowards. It doesn't take that much courage for me to talk to a woman, but I'd rather wait on the Lord. For me it actually takes a stronger man to wait on the Lord than for a guy to date the first woman he is friends with. C'mon mark.............
I'm in a relationship with a wonderful guy. He's kind of passive, and I definitely "wear the pants" in our relationship and that works really well for us. I asked him out, not the other way around. He wants to be a stay at home dad and he loves the idea of kids much more than I do. I want a successful career and be the "breadwinner."
This works well for us and we're both very happy with our relationship and our non-traditional gender roles. Our relationship is functional and healthy and Godly.
Totally wanna stay single forever. Ok, I might be going too far but I don't want to marry. I just don't. Living a life for Jesus is what I want, and being single is what I believe the Lord wants me to be. And I really like singleness. It's super hard for me to be friends with someone, let alone find a date. So I'm praying never to find one. And why would I want all those extra obligations? God doesn't command marriage, so Biblically, I'm just being Biblical.
@BritneyAddicted4EVA I understand you. There's so much more to life. . . .oddly I have no attration to the opposite sex, but none-the-less, there's no need because life is God
Too many Christian guys treat women like children or like a woman isn't as bright.Another thing that happened was at some Bible Studies with Christian guys being condesending to women.
Marc says "If you chase a man , you will have to chase him the rest of your life" which basically means: If hes not that into you from the start, he will never be into you
@Sephiroth1984 Driscoll makes up his own world.I think he can't stand a woman that does anything but sit and stare into space.He IS definetly a moron. I can't find anythoing in the Bible that sayss a woman can't pursue a man.
The story of Ruth--who was also busy working in a field with other women--should be enough to knock sense into him.
But his sentiments toward both genders are really wretched. Yes, women are decorations, like idols men are supposed to worship, rather than useful human beings.
@lovejumping2011 Exactly Mark Driscoll is insecure and has major issues himself. Its obvious. You know this man use to piss me off before but now I know that I'm not the problem but its folks like Driscoll and Babylon America that's the problem.
@RussX5Z I didn't even know about Babylon America.Maybe it's good I never heard of it!LOL!Christianity is getting more full of rules and less real fellowship.I'm lucky I found a church recently that doesn't preach what Driscoll preaches.There's too many churches like this now.They try to run a person's whole life.They load people up with self doubt.I know people that became depressed from being controlled by churches.
@GerryD96 I don't know what's happened to Christianity.Now pastors want to get into how people meet each other.I agree women need to be active in making choices.It's definetly sexist.
@steveoho People don't have sex as an idol just because we believe a woman can ask out a man.Lots of you people have a woman asking a man out as an invitation for sex because you can;t seem to seperate a woman being assertive with sex.Maybe she just wants to meet the guy to get to knolw him.
@lovejumping2011 Sorry, I'd thought after that I'd add relationships/the opposite sex as the idols. God is God and so we are to honor him in our relationships and by our timing of approaching dating, marriage, and sex. And what He commands is always good and leads to peace if followed from a heart of faith/obedience to Him.
@steveoho This in no way dishonors God.God didn't make women to be just passive knitt witts without any life in her.It's just that this pastor has a hate for women that think.
@lovejumping2011 Mark does not hate women. He seeks to follow the Bible. Ultimately men are commanded to be the head of the household... he starts from that basis and goes from there. I recommend checking out the link below it concerning dating to understand a bit more of his grounding.
@steveoho Christian men don't want women to think so they use the Bible to controll women then thety say they love their wives.This isn't love it's domination.My grandparents never dated like this.My granny asked my grandpa out.Nobody cared ablout this back then.Driscoll is just plain sexist.
@lovejumping2011 Back then? Dating is a relatively new concept. Before then it was either courtship where you sought the father's permission first or the parents would arrange a marriage. No Christian men aught to want to honor the women's parents and in doing so honor the woman. There are some aspects of this that are cultural, but the principle submission/being under authority is in the Bible. Jesus demonstrates this by submitting to God though equal. Look to God in this
@lovejumping2011 Well use wisdom... I don't expect you to accept things the way God does. However, I hope you also realize that all the problems facing relationships and marriage today have real causes.
Also, check out the New Testament... I think you'll find Jesus' words potent even today... because he speaks to your deepest needs.
@steveoho People are upset because he's making up such sexist rules such as women not being allowed to ask a man out or how shameful stay-at-home dads are. You can call sex our idol. I really don't care. I love sex.
@thebeatlesarecrap Well part of this is trying to be in line with the Bible as God's authoritative and life-giving word for us as believers. One thing that is clear from front to back of the Bible is that the man is to be head of the household - the spiritual leader of the family. Mark says don't pursue the man because you'll always be doing so as he'll never step up and lead. As for stay-at-home dad (1 Tim 5:8). Last... I'd say sure sex is great... its best in a marriage
@steveoho You're just making poor excuses for sexism. What's wrong with a woman taking the lead sometimes? It's like you're saying that she shouldn't make her own decisions and let a man do everything for her. Nope, sex is good whether you're in a marriage or not.
@thebeatlesarecrap God intended for men to lead. If we look at our society today we see men are made to feel bad about this natural desire (in part because many misused this responsibility) and because of this many men never attain maturity and spend their lives as big kids (many living at home).
As for sex... statistics show that married couples enjoy more satisfying sex. I'd also add that their is a spiritual aspect, but because I don't know I won't comment on that.
@thebeatlesarecrap I'd also add that men make better fathers than women... is that sexist? Yes, but not in a meaningful sense. Saying that men and women have different roles or that one should defer to the other (at least in the leadership of the home and church, not in general) can actually liberate them to be all God intended (and enjoy it). So in the words of Jesus... "Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment."
@steveoho The words "father" and "mother" are just titles. Neither one are more important than the other. They're meaningless because it all comes down to parenting, not being a father or a mother. Yeah maybe if you actually knew what he was saying he'd realize that give people roles just because they have a COCK or a PUSSY is judging by appearance.
@steveoho At least sex is real and gives pleasure, which is more than I can say for God. But seriously, I think the reason people are attacking Driscoll's comments here is b/c he's basically telling women that they cannot take control of their own lives, cannot take control of their destinies. Tell me how that's OK. And don't simply appeal to authority (i.e. B/c God says so).
@Apmhflick Actually, every good gift comes from God. All that we have that is good is given to us by God. He extends grace to us who choose to be his enemy. I'd also add that God created you and everything around you... all that you have, you have because either God gave it to you or allowed you to have it.
As for women... you're creating a false dichotomy. The only thing Mark is saying is that women cannot lead overall in the house. As such he suggests having the man pursue.
@steveoho Please reread what you wrote: God gave us everything means that he is worthy of all praise and we are worthy of none. Your life (your wife's/husband’s life? your childrens' lives?) is worthless and meaningless w/o this deity. And this all assumes God is real in the first place. You claim he made everything. Prove it to me... End pt.1
@Apmhflick Pt.2-As for women...oh, yes, I suppose it's better that Driscoll's only making them servile in one respect. As for African Americans…Some people think they should have to sit in the back of buses. What? Is that wrong? They can still vote and have equal opportunities in the workplace. Restricting them in one area isn’t really that bad by your own reasoning, right? Come on!
@Apmhflick I would never advocate this as a law or even throw someone out of church for something like this. What I would say is that God's way is best and both men and women will find the deepest satisfaction in trusting in and following his plan. Jesus said this is eternal life that they may know you the one true God and the one whom you sent forth (Jesus). He said anyone who hungry or thirsty can come to him and find real food/drink for their soul. True satisfaction is in Jesus
@steveoho Pt.1 Jesus said what is eternal life? Following his will? You may think Yahweh knows what's best for you: maybe biblical doctrine is perfectly and matchlessly suited to your tastes--it's not even close to mine. Although I bet it isn't very close to yours either. Even though I don't know you personally, the way you bring up eternal life reminds me that Christianity is not a moral system; it's really nothing more than one gigantic appeal to authority...end pt.1
@Apmhflick Pt.2 God is omnipotent and he can send people to hell where they will suffer eternal torment, does send people there, in fact (according to your doctrine). So all moral discussion within the framework of Christianity is a moot point because it's all premised NOT on doing "the right thing" for its own sake or even for the good of others. Rather, it is done to protect the doer from damnation and/or simply because God wants it done. That's not very admirable. End pt.2
@Apmhflick Pt.3 The fact that you "would never advocate [this prohibition of women as Driscoll describes it] as a law or even throw someone out of church for [it] suggests that deep down, logically, you don't see the merit in what is being said or, at the very least, you view the "sin" of breaking this law as a minor offense. But isn't all sin equal in the eyes of God? Isn't a woman asking out a man, then, as terrible as the murder of a child? End pt.3
@Apmhflick Pt.4 Now, given all I've said above, we can discuss rights and objective morality in the proper context. The statement "All men are created equal..." et cetera is certainly only true because we say it is true. Rights aren't real. A "right to life" won't save you from drowning in a lake. These are concepts humans have invented to negotiate and maintain a peaceful society. Nothing has inherent value. Value, rights, morality--these are all concepts, that, if they exist at all...end pt.4
@Apmhflick Pt.5 ...they exist in the mind. And even then, they don't really exist because everything that exists is made up of matter. Nothing that is metaphysical (beyond matter) has ever been shown to exist. We are nothing more than highly evolved beings living in an amoral, naturalistic environment. Any value we have we give ourselves. This to me is much a more fulfilling, positive worldview than to say that some cosmic father makes me all that I am. But that's just me. end pt.5
@Apmhflick Pt.6 So no, slavery is not objectively immoral in the sense that some cosmic warning bell goes off when it is done (btw, slavery isn't the example you should really be using considering the bible endorses it--Leviticus 25:44-46, Exodus 21:2-6). Slavery has been deemed immoral by most humans because we recognize that people deserve freedom and self-determination like we ourselves do; and because slavery induces harm and harm is detestable to most. End pt.6
@Apmhflick Pt.7 (I'm sorry, I just realized that you suggested a PM and here I've written all this on the webpage--sorry. Might as well continue) Finally, you present the Kalam Cosmological Argument (the William Lane Craig version) as evidence of morality? The existence of a god would not change the fact that morality is subjective. God is deciding what is moral and immoral. Or, if he isn't, morality is beyond even him. Look up Euthyphro's dilemma from Plato's dialogues for more. end pt.7
@Apmhflick Pt.8 (Last one, I promise.) Besides, the Kalam Cosmological Argument begs the question. It isn't considered a good argument by most philosophers for this reason. By claiming "Everything that begins to exist has a cause," the argument is suggesting that there are things that don't begin to exist. But this is the very thing that it is trying to prove.
@Apmhflick Response to pt 8. By all means posit something that has a beginning which doesn't have a cause. To deny this premise would severely fracture our understanding of life and science as we know them.
@steveoho Pt.7 I never said that there was a thing that begins without a cause; I said that by suggesting such, the Kalam argument is assuming that there is a thing that either a) doesn't have a beginning (which has never been proven) or b) that there is a thing that doesn't have a cause (which has also never been proven). But this is what the argument seeks to prove. If an argument presents its conclusion in one of its premises, it begs the question and is therefore considered a poor argument.
@Apmhflick Pt.7 B) While we're at it, you deferred to science. Interesting, because science has never presented empirical evidence of anything metaphysical. No spirit world, no heaven, no supernatural beings or places of any kind. So, you're willing to accept science when it suits you, but not when it might destroy the validity of your Christianity? Hmm...
@Apmhflick One of the base assumptions of naturalism is a closed system so outside explanations are not sought. It also does not, nor cannot, test anything of the supernatural realm as it isn't repeatable/detectable. Does that mean it doesn't exist? It cannot say. However, when examining this world we both get science - we just have two different explanations. And we also have tests to validate our hypotheses. Check out Evidence that Demands a Verdict.
@Apmhflick We all accept base unprovable assumptions as a means of living and interacting with this world... I would say that everything that begins has a cause seems like a good one. Maybe I'm not getting what you're saying...
Either way I think you'll find this interesting :) "Dr. William Lane Craig humiliates Dr. Peter Atkins"
@Apmhflick Response to Pt 7. Kalam is for the existence to God. Craig is able to ascertain different characteristics of the first cause (God), but you'd have to look it up.
As for Euthyphro it is simply answered by goodness is founded in the very character of God. This answers Euthyphro because there is only one God and he is unchanging.
@steveoho Pt.6 I know what the Kalam is. It's still a bad argument (more on that in the next part of my response). Your response to Euthyphro is St. Augustine's response. It's a good response. But you realize that if it's correct, your God is then bound by morality just as we are and that means he is NOT omnipotent. You see the problems you run into when you try to logically support an idea as complex and ludicrous as Yahweh?
@Apmhflick Is a truthful man able to lie? Yup. Will he ever lie? Nope. Same goes for God, but moreso.
That being said, the greatest act ever ever ever done was when Jesus, the perfect sinless man (God in the flesh) took our sin upon himself. At that moment the Father punished the Son on our behalf. Had Christ sinned? Nope... but he took the punishment for it. Just thought I'd share that because there is no greater good than that ever ever ever :)
@Apmhflick P6 rspTo engage in something we know is wrong we must first devalue the other person involved. You see this in slavery... its justified as a kindness to the simple or a taking care of animals or punishment because they're woefully inferior morally or otherwise. People know its wrong. Slavery in the Bible is diff from modern slavery. They used it to pay off debts instead of death or prison. Also the masters would set them free/allow them to join the family after awhile.
@steveoho Pt.5 I agree with you that slavery is wrong (obviously) and I think your explanation of why it is excused is apt. But don't you dare try to excuse the acceptance of slavery in the bible by saying it was different then and therefore better. People were still controlled completely by another human being and that is rephrehensible. If there was a law on the books in the US today saying that if someone owes another person $500+ they are to be that person's slave. Would you agree with it?
@Apmhflick Pt 5... I'm out of college paying off debt.... I have a small idea of what slavery is like. I know that if I don't pay it they will throw me in jail, take all I have, and put the debt on my family... all whether I want them to or not. My actions are restricted/somewhat controlled because of this. I'm thankful they won't kill me :)
Again stating slavery is wrong... on what basis? See... you really do believe in a universal morality :)
@Apmhflick Response to pt 4&5. Fulfilling? How so? We'd have no solid basis to differentiate good and evil, what a meaningful existence is, or anything to hope in, no explanation confusion we feel in pain and suffering. Our existence, apart from God noticing and lifting us up again, is like the tree that falls in the forest with nobody around.
@steveoho Pt.4 I notice you haven't tried to refute my philosophical contention about subjective morality, you've only written on how it doesn't seem fulfilling to you. Can you refute it? As for whether it's fulfilling: It's a matter of disposition. This is going to sound condescending, but Freud spoke of those who can reject the safety and comfort of an eternal father figure & live their own lives according to their own tastes and desires and those who can't, those who want to remain children.
@Apmhflick Pt.4 (B) You're saying, as all Christians do, that your life has no meaning except within the context of an omniscient, omnipotent God. Why do you think you are so wretched? It really seems like a form of self-hate to me. God essentially beats you over the head with rules, threatens your eternal soul, and then pretends--after setting up the punishment--to save you from it. When you are in trouble, turn to friends and family instead. They love you for who you are--and they're real.
@Apmhflick My life goes much the same way as the prodigal son when I decide to walk without God. I ruin my life and I hurt those I care about. Sure there is good times, but I for the longest time thought I was a bad person deserving of punishment and yet very bitter at anyone I thought a hypocrite. God saved me from that. Have you read the book of Romans? I think you'd like it and it would show that even without God's laws sin was still there. And it would show you his plan.
@Apmhflick pt 4. I can say safely that whatever you're depending on is only as good as it is depending on universal truth/morality. If I granted your position I would say try pointing at something to say I'm good because and I'll simply respond that its arbitrary and you're standing on sinking sand. You don't live as if its arbitrary... nor can anybody and stay sane.
Freud wasn't a very happy guy. Are you satisfied with your system? Just curious...
@Apmhflick Response to pt3. I would be under a pastor who is not head of his household or fail to advocate this to others, nor would I marry a woman who is overly contentious. We're all at different places spiritually and not all of us spiritual giants. As we grow in our knowledge of Christ and trust him more we allow him to lead more. Concerning difference in sin... all sin causes separation between you and God and your fellow man... some has worse and longer reaching effects
@steveoho Pt.3 Driscoll isn't arguing against contentious women, he's arguing against self-determining women. What your preaching here is Bronze Age misogyny in the 21st century. If Christ is 'telling' you or anybody that women should know their place, you've got some serious issues. I hope you're not married. I'll agree with your discussion of sin: that some sins have longer reaching effects. But by saying so you're contradicting the bible.
@Apmhflick I'm not contradicting the Bible. All sin is basically death row severity in God's book on determining who can go to Heaven and who is going to Hell. However, that isn't saying some sin isn't worse than others and it will have worse punishment.
I disagree with your take on Mark and I'd add that apart from a universal morality you have no solid reason to object to it or call what you perceive it to be wrong.
@Apmhflick Response to pt2. Jesus said he did not come into this world to condemn it, but that it may have life and have it to the full. However, the problem is that we stand condemned already because of our massive debt of sins. I recommend Matthew 18:23-35 for a picture of whats been done on our behalf. You'll notice that the man still tries to pay his debt and turns away from the free gift offered him. We do good not to earn Heaven, but please God and love man.
@steveoho Pt.2 Jesus's conception of having life to the full is not my idea of a full life. If I follow his path, I can't follow my own desires. It's Jesus's life I'd be striving to live, not my own. How can I be happy then, if I can't do what I want? Btw, this whole 'it's our fault' business is ludicrous because God set up the rules; he could easily take away the punishment we 'deserve.' Fulke Greville said it perfectly. We are "Created sick — Commanded to be well." Hell hangs over Christianity
@Apmhflick P2 If it makes you feel better I didn't either... I just knew I hated this life of sin I was swamped in and he came into my life and changed/purified my heart and my desires. The Bible says delight yourself in the lord and he will give you the desires of your heart. As we trust him our needs will be met, we'll find deep satisfying love and relationships, meaning and purpose, and a full life in this world and especially the world to come.
@steveoho **Pt.2 As I said before, if you need to look at your life through the prism of Christ's sacrifice and God's 'love' to feel protected and happy, I have no problem with that. I don't agree, but that's fine. I just don't feel like I need God (of course, he doesn't exist anyway, so it's a moot point). You'll look at me like all Christians do with pity, grimace, and tell me that I do need him. But it would make me unhappy to follow him b/c then I couldn't follow my own desires.
@Apmhflick Res Pt 2. I'm curious... you said that you used to be a Christian. What major life event happened to change that? Was it just that you didn't see your life and desires matching up to theirs and so you decided it was unrealistic/impossible, or was there something more? Also, if you're willing to share, what desires are you specifically talking about that you believe are contrary to the Bible?
@Apmhflick Response to pt1 Jesus said "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3 Christianity actually appeals to the moral law which has its its basis and founding in the image and character of God. Our "religion" stems around who God is, what he has done for us, and our relationship with him. We obey him out of love for him and others. God's word is our highest authority because God is the greatest good
@steveoho Pt.1 OK, so you were presenting the crux (should I say cross?) of Christian thought before. I got it. But if your morality is based on the character of God, you've still got some explaining to do. God is sometimes, I'll grant you, a good guy. But most often, he's horribly wretched. See Numbers 15:32-36, Hebrews 10:30-31, Luke 12: 4-5, Isaiah 45:7, etc. God is far from the greatest good. I have no problem claiming that I, with all the immoralities of my past, am better than your god.
@Apmhflick pt 1 (A) I'm glad to see you know some of the Bible... I hope you didn't just get those off a website :). God is utterly holy and in him is no darkness of all. Nor can he have anything to do with wickedness. He will not find the innocent one guilty, nor the guilty innocent. We too are commanded to be holy... and in honestly sinning may seem pleasurable for a moment, but it is devastating and all rightly despise it. The Jews were set apart to display God to the world.
@steveoho **Pt.1 (My new comments will have asterisks to differentiate them.) My friend, you can't just ignore how cruel a deity Yahweh really is according to your own sacred text. Saying he is 'utterly holy' is nonsense considering all the horrible things he did/does. As for my knowledge of the Bible, I was a Christian for many years and I have read it twice all the way through as well as attend a Christian school and participate in numerous bible studies. I know the book.
@Apmhflick Res Pt.1(A) The problem of evil is only a problem if you are approaching this from a universal morality standpoint. Without it, the question self-destructs. I wish I could meet with you in person to address objections regarding God in person :P Any chance you live in Iowa?
@Apmhflick pt 1 (B) As such the Israelites were commanded to keep sin out of their camp lest it spread like a disease/ affect their view of God. The man who got the sticks did so out of clear disobedience to God. The Law was to show just how high God's standard was... yet God forbear with all mankind until Christ could be revealed at the proper time and deliver his people from sin and death. Yet he won't force Christ on any. I'm curious have you ever taken the good person test?
@steveoho **Pt.1(B) I've taken the good person test: it's definition of a good person is not my definition of a good person. Anent the sin issue: 1st, I don't believe in sin per se, but I will agree that certain momentary pleasurable experiences can be damaging in the long run--but not all. Sex before marriage, cursing, drug use, lying--these are all things that can be great short and long term when practiced w/ intelligence and care. The cleft between what you'd call sin and goodness, for me...
@Apmhflick **Pt.1(C)...rests between harm and victimless action. 'Vices are not crimes' as Lysander Spooner so famously said. If I can sin and it doesn't hurt anyone, I don't have any regret in doing it. And even so, if an action does hurt someone, as long as it's not distasteful to me (b/c the person deserved it or b/c I deemed it necessary) I'll do it anyway b/c I recognize that sin, morality, etc. are just words I can use or discard. Now, just b/c someone sets a high standard doesn't mean...
@Apmhflick **Pt.1(D)...that standard is good. I could say that anyone who doesn't bow their head when I walk by should be killed. (God does this essentially.) That is a high standard: that doesn't mean it's right or just. Any way you want to paint it, killing someone for picking up sticks on the wrong day is wrong b/c that dude didn't hurt anyone in doing so; he only hurt God's vanity. No, he won't force Christ on us, but he'll force hell on us. Kind of makes it a non-choice then, right?
@Apmhflick Res pt 1 (D) On a side note... maybe we should pm after all and use "" 's to reference this as it is getting somewhat unwieldy/ I don't know the right protocol :P
I think it would be better to say that if you've rejected Christ you won't want to be in Heaven/around the one you've rejected. So God removes himself from you. Some say that hell is merely God and all his goodness removed. Life w/o God is no life at all.
As for the sticks... what do you remember of Romans?
@Apmhflick Res Pt 1(C) - I don't know if one can sin and not affect another. At the very least sin affects how we view ourselves and others and will invariably affect our actions. Take porn for an example. Some say at least they aren't raping someone. Bad news is it increases your liklihood of doing so... you visualize it, you're less satisfied with normal sexuality, you view women/people as objects more. You enjoy your marriage less. Tons of devaluing goes on... no direct crime
@Apmhflick The statement "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"... Is this statement true only because we say it is true? Or are we indeed born with inherent value? If not, then even slavery is not immoral in the strictest sense.
As for proof... look up the "First Cause" argument
I won't chase a man but he shouldn't chase me either. If he makes a move and I step away he should leave me alone. I want someone who meets me in the middle. I can encourage contact by being responsive and if I wanted to ask a man out I would but it never happens. They always make the first move. But them I'm only interested in men who are brave enough to make the first move. I'm not interested in men who don't want me or play hard to get. Nor do I play hard to get. It's stupid and degrading.
I would STAY far away from the woman who wrote that question to Mark. She has multiple personality disorder and proof of this is that she refers to herself as "women". Sorry honey, but one woman is more than enough.
I see no reason at all why I should wait to be asked out and in fact have often asked a guy out. Most of the time the guys have told me they were very happy I did this because it was what they wanted to do but were too shy to do.
I really don't understand why so many Christians men are misogynists--no matter how sugar coated.
oh this is religious... No brainer !. Religion hates Women. If a Woman had half a brain, she would not ask a Man out from this part of society period. The church think Women are Animals. It's all a joke really, honestly.... they don't want to see Females as people, so therefore they have no rights and are obviously open to suspicion, disdain, subjugation and ridicule. Get a clue people.
What a bunch of anti-male garbage! According to this guy, men deserve all of the blame for the dating issues of women. If a woman wants a man to ask her out, she needs to make it clear that she likes him and wants to go out with him. Too many women don't get asked out because they don't convey this message.
@Webzlinger (cont) believe that there's nothing better than the love of 'God' and loving 'God' really don't know much about the sciences, history, or about the amazing things on this planet and by extension the Universe, they're satisfied with mediocre and childish answers at best. That's NOT a healthy state of mind. Curiosity and skepticism are the things that drive our species forward, that's how we evolve and progress as a species. If blind worship was part of our genetic makeup then (cont)
@Webzlinger cont) we'd still be in the Dark Ages, burning innocent girls at the stake, caught up in "holy" wars, chastity belts, living with diseases, shit and piss flowing on the streets, Droit du seigneur and countless other brain dead, superstitious, bullshit traditions. But, no need to get off on a rant here, religion will probably disappear in a few hundred years, humanity will realize one day that it's useless and vile, like slavery.
i kind of like looking at this, though i'm not misogynist (far from it). i like seeing the view point from someone who isn't using the name "misogyny" to be a sexist pig and claim all women are sluts, which are what the only misogyinists i've ever come across claim.
Oh gee, thanks Mark. I'll go now, extract my ovaries, put them in a jar under the sink, padlock my pants and pray that someone will ask me out. That's a plan, right? I mean all I have is time, right? Screw you.
Very misogynistic. This could only possibly lead to the mindset that a man controls the relationship, I couldn't see any other conclusion. "A woman shouldn't speak up in a job interview!" "A women shouldn't speak out about women's issues!" "Only a man should lead a country, it would be unchristian for a woman to take initiative!
This speech is terribly destructive. Jesus would have turned tables all around this church. The only thing any word from this guy means to me is that he's lost and desensitized. Not living in the world, he's living outdated history to benefit himself. Jesus Christ has no relation to modern conservative thought, whatsoever. Disagree? Pick up a copy of the bible and come back to me.
@GamerNerdTalk That might be true, but my brain isn't. Everything supernatural, spirits, gods, etc. are human inventions, easy answers to questions people are too lazy to find answers for.
@Webzlinger Religion is not a believe, it is a way of life. Your trying to explain to me that God is a human invention for answers in our lives. Perhaps your able to see life this way. I for can't really see it. Read any book of the bible and you quickly realise that the action of living for God is so much more then just believing. It is a life devoted to a spiritual act of worship because we are not worthy of anything else. Isaiah talks about humans will wither away like grass in a field....
@GamerNerdTalk Please. You're just repeating the same advertising slogans believers have spat at people they considered 'Hell worthy' for thousands of years. Deep believers are like sleeper agents, not aware that they've been brainwashed. If all you hear growing up is God this, God that and Bible this, Bible that, then of course those things will be the only things you turn to when things get hard. Buddhism is a way of life, religion is a tool of ignorance and mental slavery. People who (cont)
@Webzlinger our lives I don't think have much of a worth if it is not rooted and founded in the right things. To focus every waking desire on lives worries and not on God, or saying the theology of God is a made up conspiracy could very well be the reason why people focus so much on relationships and dating rather then focusing on areas of life that could create a huge impact, not saying dating doesn't But like he said. I love God, I like you, lets do something. The key point was "I Love God"
@Webzlinger Please stop. If you're an atheist go ahead and ignore a properly basic belief, but please don't insult us with more Santa, Tooth Fairy, Zeus analogies. If you're that passionate about these issues, take it outside.
@breenhill That's the problem see, you don't realize that I'm not trying to insult you, I want to jolt some reality into people like you, besides, Santa, Tooth Fairy, Zeus, yep, they're pretty accurate analogies. Heck, I'll take it everywhere.
@Webzlinger Why do you want to supposedly use your awe-inspiring intellect to "jolt" some of us into reality. Whose reality? Yours where arrogance is virtue and ethics and meaning are illusory figments of the desperate drama-craving mind? If you feel like you're that superior, go out on the street and give your life to the cause of telling people there is no God. Spend your time debunking the cosmological, the ontological, moral, and teleological arguments instead of invective vomit.
Something that bothers me about some churches is the leaders treat women like airheads.I hope I can find one that knows women can think and be logical.I remember at a group leaders house he said women don't think.ggrrr
There's nothing worse as a woman than to have your sexuality dictated to you by men.If a man wants a woman without any sexual needs then he deserves what he gets.If a man will only respect a woman if she plays coy then he gets a game played on him.Some men are sooo dumb.
It's so stupid how people think there should be an organized system for how people should start dating. It's convenient to believe that all people are the same, but it's not true. If you connect with someone you connect, if not, oh well. It really IS that simple. Enough of this gender role bull shit, my god.
@xxESPx It IS,it's all about connection.I don't see how anyone connects if they are playing games on each other.These out dated gender roles keep people from knowing each other on a deep level.
women are not 2 ask man out. the bible says a man is aupose 2 leave his house at some point n join together wife his wife to become one. it didnt say the woman it said the man. a man will not really fully love n respect a women if she ask him out cuz it seems like shez disprete for him so her value to him will drop
@pghanyea What you're saying is a man loses respect for a woman if she acts like a real human.Stop putting women on the sexless level,we have sexual needs too,plus we aren't desperate we're sexual too!
Guys need to look nice too.How many times as women do we hear a guy say wear this to please me,well I'm sick of sloppy guys that look horrible.Girls have eyes too!
you have to be shure the guy is intrested in you first. you dont get dress so the guy can find intress in you, you dress up to impress the guy when their is already intress
i like his comment when he said "do what ruth did. get all dressed up AND GET IN HIS WAY!!!" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL fabio here i come to annoy you darling!!!
"Non-Christians shouldn't date 'Christians'. My non-Christian bro married a 'good Christian girl'. She was the center of his universe. Three months after the wedding, he found out she was cheating on him.He was always upset at the fact she'd (at 18 years old) had been with a countless number of guys, and my bro had only been with her. Now I ask you, what makes "Christians" so great? Atheists, in my experience, can be WAY 'better people' than any christians I know. Girls go ahead and ask guys out
@eajoseph217 Your good non Christian brother probably married a masked 2 face Christian woman AKA a wolf in sheep's clothing (not a true righteous woman of GOD). There are thousands or probably millions of so called Christians that are that way in America and its so fuckin sad and unfortunate! I hope your Brother finds the right women (a good one esp) Christian or non Christian that will love him from her heart and never be selfish and mean and cheat on him.
@RussX5Z TYSSSSSSM :) My brother has been dating a friend of mine for a little over a year. She's Catholic, but religion isn't her main concentration. She's a good person who 'happens' to be Catholic... Which is what my brother and I were baptized as. I don't think religion makes someone 'good' or 'bad', although there have been awful ppl who do awful things in the name of it. Bro's ex-wife was more than a wolf in sheep's clothing, LOL, she was/is the devil incarnate!!! THANK YOU, AGAIN
@SoniaSephia Even in a Victorian era a girl would ask a guy out.:) Things were much more free back then then anyone knows.Now Christians got neurotic about everything especialy if it has to do with women thinking.
@lovejumping2011 LOL! why he's soo obsessed with this? How dose he think he can decide how two people fall in love? XD how many licks dose it take to get to the center of a this man's narrow minded brain? ;) "the world many never know." lol Totsie Pops reference! XD
@SoniaSephia It's like he thinks he'll be right there telling them how to fun their life.I wonder about the licks myself!LOL! LOLLLLLLL!!!!!! Thank you for that! :) We needed some humor here! :)LOL!
@lovejumping2011 :) No problem. And I hope this guy dose not harm your views towards Jesus. Please i hope not. a good down to earth pastor i know is called Matt Brown, of sandals church, he's real and just a relatable guy. please check out his online sermons when u can, at sandalschurch com. And please look to Jesus Christ, ignore that this crazy man said. Jesus preached that he is the way, the truth, and the life, the greatest hope to live in. Jesus loved John 3:16, and Romans 5:8
@SoniaSephia Thank you for telling me about Matt Brown.:) I need to find a down to earth church leader that doesn't have all these rules for dating.Sometimes what a preacher says can ruin Jesus's message.The church members are sometimes not welcoming.It's hard to find a church with the love of Jesus.So many churches now believe this Mars and Venus stuff.It's too bad they can't see how it effects the members.He's crazy for usre.He misses the point about love from Jesus.
@lovejumping2011 Your welcome :) And don't let backwards religious men hold you back from coming the Jesus Christ. If u have a Bible (walmart has them cheap lol) read in order to see who Jesus is, and how Jesus wants u to come to Him by his ways :) Not some pastor/church persons ways but by Jesus's way John 15 John 3:16. :) yes please check online at sandalschurch com, his sermons Art of Authenticity :) I know u will enjoy. today is sunday u can watch it live :) hope u do.
@SoniaSephia You're totally right :) i have to get what these pastors say out of my mind.I notice how so many don't focus on Jesus but instead on some social thing.They miss the message of Jesus.I need to read the Bible like I did for convermation class years ago.I have a Bible but gave it to my sister.I'll get it back cause she has her own.:) You're the nicest person I've met here recently.Jesus is with you.:) Love!ooxxx
@lovejumping2011 :) Thank you, aaawww! Ur nice as well. And I see u have a heart for Jesus Christ, invite in, you on the right path. It's ok loud dumb pastors like these can distract us from Jesus, yes they love to focus on social things, and just be bunch of Nazi's lol! Buy hey :) u r on right path, just leave out whatisaid by the crazies and open ur ears for Jesus Christ :) dont worry ibeen there 2 worry over pastors,forgot Jesus. Now u remember :) pray to welcome Christ back <3
@SoniaSephia :) Hi Friend!:) I turned off the sound!LOL! There's lots of noise out there focused on how to run our lives.I know women in my town that didn't want to be Christians anymore because they felt the pastors weren't listening to single women.I told them what you told me and now they are back!:)You're a great wirness for Jesus.We sometimes have to put blinders on and have ear pluggs.LOL! I have to focus on Jesus and not the pastors.:) Smiles.:D
@lovejumping2011 You two are annoying me. Are you going to try to sound like gentle little ladies while bashing Driscoll? I notice you two just keep talk on this video rather than have a private conversation on your own personal emails, phones, or face to face. It's fine that you two have opinions, but don't bring Jesus as your advocate if you're going to spam the comment section with your "subtlety" in calling Christians misogynist assholes.
@suib21 But why can't people have a different view and question Driscoll? My grandpar\ents met at a church and grandpa didn't chase grandma.It just all happened nicely with equality.But Jesus never said anything about dating etc.
@SoniaSephia There's NOTHING wrong with a girl asking a guy out! I can't stand how some people (especially those who take the Bible/Qu'ran as literal) insist that women are second-class citizens! Not all theists think like that, and that's not what I'm implying, so others, PLEASE don't bombard me with "you damn heathens hate GOD" messages! Yep. I'm Atheist. Guess what? When I was Catholic, I had no problem asking guys out, nor was I reprimanded for it. It's not a bad thing at all!
@eajoseph217 ??? I agree with u 110%. Where did u get the idea that I think it is wrong? Please look at my comments, particularly those with lovejumping, we are both Christian girls at overall don't like Marks old fashion view of this. Me and her would both agree with u. So please tell me how u thought I was siding with Mark on this? LOL maybe someone delete my comments lol or i been hacked XD
@SoniaSephia Hey! Gal! :) Driscoll is so Mars/Venus.Everybody has their own personality.Nobody is 'hardwired'like Driscoll thinks.Church should be about helping and fellowship not controlling people.I know people that had to change their phone numbers because churches got so controlling.The churches were harrassing people.
@lovejumping2011 Just be glad he isn't a Muslim :) That being said I actually like Mark and respect his teaching and passion to see people liberated from this world's way of living quite a bit.
@steveoho It would be nice if Christian guys wiould stop dissing Muslim guys,I think you all do it because you know you treat women like babies so you need to diss Muslim guys to feel better about yourselves.I know Muslim men and they aren't like you said they are.You have a limited view of Muslims from what your narrow minded bigoted preachers tell you,I know I've heard it all.I've had some very bad experiences with Christian guys.
@lovejumping2011 And I know Christian men and they aren't as you said they are... they actually hold women in very high esteem. The question in this case... were the men, be they muslim or christian, following accurately what their religion/Bible said? Also, if I may ask, do you ascribe to a religion or creed?
@steveoho I've been to enough churches to know how Christian men baby women and won't let us grow up.The Muslim men were following Islam but they never had the attutudes toward women that Christian men do like women can't do math etc.Most Christians now are very sexist.Also they were from the Shia sect not Sunni.Too many Christian men are into Mars/Venus John Gray,
@lovejumping2011 If the women around them didn't have full covering then they were not following Islam. I'm sorry the men in the church didn't treat you with respect and in a way which you felt loved and appreciated. I haven't heard of anyone around me reading the book you're talking about... more often I hear them checking out a book called "Love and Respect". I also like "Marriage takes more than love". Perhaps they can show you what Christian relationships are really like
@steveoho Read "Islam" by Karen Armstrong.You have ideas about Islam that probably come from bigoted church.All the Muslim women I know are far more free than the Christian womeen I've known.Women need respect too but Christianity or your version of it doesn't seem to know that.
@lovejumping2011 I don't care for the bigoted statements as much as you... so please stop. I understand you're talking out of hurt so I don't hold it against you... I hope you'll forgive those who've hurt you in time.
@steveoho I'm not talking out of hurt,I'm talking out of disgust for all these stupid rules like Driscoll has ablout women can't do this or that.oh please! I'm standing up for rights women deserver.Chrstianity has become a very narrow religion.
@lovejumping2011 When you read the verse "If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." What comes to mind? And when you read that Eve (woman) was created to be Adam (man's) helpmate? If you were trying to obey these verses how would you go about it? Btw, may I ask what religious background you have/ are in now?
This dudes far beyond nuts and should be watched carefully. Where his words come from is very dangerous and on the side of religious extremism and could possibly turn dangerous if they felt their religion was under attack, something similar to the Islamist extremists. Keep a close eye on this one and his hateful language against minority groups.
Changesomething101 10 hours ago
Really??
tbw980371 11 hours ago
What about Ruth and Boaz? Didn't she pursue him?
learningcurveify 15 hours ago
... because Christian women DO NOT divorce their husbands. Want to give me a $ for every "honorable" divorced christian female ?
mba2ceo 2 days ago
cowards usually mean smart :) Having a parasite is NOT an honor ... DO not thank GOD thank MONEY :) IMO
mba2ceo 2 days ago
Yes ... FULGY women needs to ask men out :)
mba2ceo 2 days ago
I like everything he just said 110%.
SingActDanceforever 3 days ago
This guy goes too far with his own opinions. 1) Christians are not cowards, 2) the reason men from the world pursue christian women and any women for that matter is because of their unbridled lust, not because they ain't cowards. It doesn't take that much courage for me to talk to a woman, but I'd rather wait on the Lord. For me it actually takes a stronger man to wait on the Lord than for a guy to date the first woman he is friends with. C'mon mark.............
SlaveOfCrist 4 days ago
I'm in a relationship with a wonderful guy. He's kind of passive, and I definitely "wear the pants" in our relationship and that works really well for us. I asked him out, not the other way around. He wants to be a stay at home dad and he loves the idea of kids much more than I do. I want a successful career and be the "breadwinner."
This works well for us and we're both very happy with our relationship and our non-traditional gender roles. Our relationship is functional and healthy and Godly.
IDreamOf98 4 days ago
Totally wanna stay single forever. Ok, I might be going too far but I don't want to marry. I just don't. Living a life for Jesus is what I want, and being single is what I believe the Lord wants me to be. And I really like singleness. It's super hard for me to be friends with someone, let alone find a date. So I'm praying never to find one. And why would I want all those extra obligations? God doesn't command marriage, so Biblically, I'm just being Biblical.
God bless everyone! :)
BritneyAddicted4EVA 6 days ago
@BritneyAddicted4EVA Gotta correct myself... I wasn't going too far. Maybe if the Lord wants me to marry one day but I don't think so.
:D
BritneyAddicted4EVA 6 days ago
@BritneyAddicted4EVA I understand you. There's so much more to life. . . .oddly I have no attration to the opposite sex, but none-the-less, there's no need because life is God
4dojo 6 days ago
Too many Christian guys treat women like children or like a woman isn't as bright.Another thing that happened was at some Bible Studies with Christian guys being condesending to women.
lovejumping2011 2 weeks ago
people come together things just work out who cares who makes the first move so many rules preacher has eeewwww
mistyeyedsister 3 weeks ago
He forgot about the bible in this question...
slash0t 3 weeks ago
This guy should have lived in 2000 B.C. I think that would have been more suitable for his taste.
thebeatlesarecrap 1 month ago
@thebeatlesarecrap LOL! He doesn't belong in 2012 that's for sure! LOL!
lovejumping2011 1 month ago
You support an organization that facilitates child abuse.
You are in no position to give teenagers and young adults advice.
Skrzwikitzkwa 1 month ago
Marc says "If you chase a man , you will have to chase him the rest of your life" which basically means: If hes not that into you from the start, he will never be into you
TheK1N1 1 month ago
You sound like an idiot. If you want something go get it, whether women or man!! This video is stupid and pointless.
pinksbaby 1 month ago
@pinksbaby
Exactly
Sephiroth1984 1 month ago
This guy is such a moron. It never ends with this guy. Ruth pursued Boaz! Did you forget that, Driscoll?
Sephiroth1984 1 month ago
@Sephiroth1984 Driscoll makes up his own world.I think he can't stand a woman that does anything but sit and stare into space.He IS definetly a moron. I can't find anythoing in the Bible that sayss a woman can't pursue a man.
lovejumping2011 1 month ago
@lovejumping2011
The story of Ruth--who was also busy working in a field with other women--should be enough to knock sense into him.
But his sentiments toward both genders are really wretched. Yes, women are decorations, like idols men are supposed to worship, rather than useful human beings.
Sephiroth1984 1 month ago
@lovejumping2011 Exactly Mark Driscoll is insecure and has major issues himself. Its obvious. You know this man use to piss me off before but now I know that I'm not the problem but its folks like Driscoll and Babylon America that's the problem.
RussX5Z 2 weeks ago
@RussX5Z I didn't even know about Babylon America.Maybe it's good I never heard of it!LOL!Christianity is getting more full of rules and less real fellowship.I'm lucky I found a church recently that doesn't preach what Driscoll preaches.There's too many churches like this now.They try to run a person's whole life.They load people up with self doubt.I know people that became depressed from being controlled by churches.
lovejumping2011 2 weeks ago
Ehh...screw it. Forget guys.
Pursue other women. *eyebrows bobbing*
BionicDance 1 month ago
i totally disagree!!! this is so sexist!! of course a woman can ask the man ou,t what is wrong with that!! women need to start taking an initiative!!
GerryD96 1 month ago
@GerryD96 I don't know what's happened to Christianity.Now pastors want to get into how people meet each other.I agree women need to be active in making choices.It's definetly sexist.
lovejumping2011 1 month ago
Odd so many people are commenting with vehemence on this... apparently Mark preached against their idol (sex).
steveoho 1 month ago 13
@steveoho People don't have sex as an idol just because we believe a woman can ask out a man.Lots of you people have a woman asking a man out as an invitation for sex because you can;t seem to seperate a woman being assertive with sex.Maybe she just wants to meet the guy to get to knolw him.
lovejumping2011 1 month ago
@lovejumping2011 Sorry, I'd thought after that I'd add relationships/the opposite sex as the idols. God is God and so we are to honor him in our relationships and by our timing of approaching dating, marriage, and sex. And what He commands is always good and leads to peace if followed from a heart of faith/obedience to Him.
steveoho 1 month ago
@steveoho This in no way dishonors God.God didn't make women to be just passive knitt witts without any life in her.It's just that this pastor has a hate for women that think.
lovejumping2011 1 month ago
@lovejumping2011 Mark does not hate women. He seeks to follow the Bible. Ultimately men are commanded to be the head of the household... he starts from that basis and goes from there. I recommend checking out the link below it concerning dating to understand a bit more of his grounding.
steveoho 1 month ago
@steveoho Christian men don't want women to think so they use the Bible to controll women then thety say they love their wives.This isn't love it's domination.My grandparents never dated like this.My granny asked my grandpa out.Nobody cared ablout this back then.Driscoll is just plain sexist.
lovejumping2011 1 month ago
@lovejumping2011 Back then? Dating is a relatively new concept. Before then it was either courtship where you sought the father's permission first or the parents would arrange a marriage. No Christian men aught to want to honor the women's parents and in doing so honor the woman. There are some aspects of this that are cultural, but the principle submission/being under authority is in the Bible. Jesus demonstrates this by submitting to God though equal. Look to God in this
steveoho 1 month ago
@steveoho I'm just not into this sort of dating.It doesn't work in 2012.
lovejumping2011 1 month ago
@lovejumping2011 Well use wisdom... I don't expect you to accept things the way God does. However, I hope you also realize that all the problems facing relationships and marriage today have real causes.
Also, check out the New Testament... I think you'll find Jesus' words potent even today... because he speaks to your deepest needs.
steveoho 3 weeks ago
@steveoho People are upset because he's making up such sexist rules such as women not being allowed to ask a man out or how shameful stay-at-home dads are. You can call sex our idol. I really don't care. I love sex.
thebeatlesarecrap 3 weeks ago
@thebeatlesarecrap Well part of this is trying to be in line with the Bible as God's authoritative and life-giving word for us as believers. One thing that is clear from front to back of the Bible is that the man is to be head of the household - the spiritual leader of the family. Mark says don't pursue the man because you'll always be doing so as he'll never step up and lead. As for stay-at-home dad (1 Tim 5:8). Last... I'd say sure sex is great... its best in a marriage
steveoho 3 weeks ago
@steveoho You're just making poor excuses for sexism. What's wrong with a woman taking the lead sometimes? It's like you're saying that she shouldn't make her own decisions and let a man do everything for her. Nope, sex is good whether you're in a marriage or not.
thebeatlesarecrap 3 weeks ago
@thebeatlesarecrap God intended for men to lead. If we look at our society today we see men are made to feel bad about this natural desire (in part because many misused this responsibility) and because of this many men never attain maturity and spend their lives as big kids (many living at home).
As for sex... statistics show that married couples enjoy more satisfying sex. I'd also add that their is a spiritual aspect, but because I don't know I won't comment on that.
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@thebeatlesarecrap I'd also add that men make better fathers than women... is that sexist? Yes, but not in a meaningful sense. Saying that men and women have different roles or that one should defer to the other (at least in the leadership of the home and church, not in general) can actually liberate them to be all God intended (and enjoy it). So in the words of Jesus... "Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment."
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho The words "father" and "mother" are just titles. Neither one are more important than the other. They're meaningless because it all comes down to parenting, not being a father or a mother. Yeah maybe if you actually knew what he was saying he'd realize that give people roles just because they have a COCK or a PUSSY is judging by appearance.
thebeatlesarecrap 2 weeks ago
@steveoho At least sex is real and gives pleasure, which is more than I can say for God. But seriously, I think the reason people are attacking Driscoll's comments here is b/c he's basically telling women that they cannot take control of their own lives, cannot take control of their destinies. Tell me how that's OK. And don't simply appeal to authority (i.e. B/c God says so).
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Actually, every good gift comes from God. All that we have that is good is given to us by God. He extends grace to us who choose to be his enemy. I'd also add that God created you and everything around you... all that you have, you have because either God gave it to you or allowed you to have it.
As for women... you're creating a false dichotomy. The only thing Mark is saying is that women cannot lead overall in the house. As such he suggests having the man pursue.
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho Please reread what you wrote: God gave us everything means that he is worthy of all praise and we are worthy of none. Your life (your wife's/husband’s life? your childrens' lives?) is worthless and meaningless w/o this deity. And this all assumes God is real in the first place. You claim he made everything. Prove it to me... End pt.1
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Pt.2-As for women...oh, yes, I suppose it's better that Driscoll's only making them servile in one respect. As for African Americans…Some people think they should have to sit in the back of buses. What? Is that wrong? They can still vote and have equal opportunities in the workplace. Restricting them in one area isn’t really that bad by your own reasoning, right? Come on!
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick I would never advocate this as a law or even throw someone out of church for something like this. What I would say is that God's way is best and both men and women will find the deepest satisfaction in trusting in and following his plan. Jesus said this is eternal life that they may know you the one true God and the one whom you sent forth (Jesus). He said anyone who hungry or thirsty can come to him and find real food/drink for their soul. True satisfaction is in Jesus
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho Pt.1 Jesus said what is eternal life? Following his will? You may think Yahweh knows what's best for you: maybe biblical doctrine is perfectly and matchlessly suited to your tastes--it's not even close to mine. Although I bet it isn't very close to yours either. Even though I don't know you personally, the way you bring up eternal life reminds me that Christianity is not a moral system; it's really nothing more than one gigantic appeal to authority...end pt.1
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Pt.2 God is omnipotent and he can send people to hell where they will suffer eternal torment, does send people there, in fact (according to your doctrine). So all moral discussion within the framework of Christianity is a moot point because it's all premised NOT on doing "the right thing" for its own sake or even for the good of others. Rather, it is done to protect the doer from damnation and/or simply because God wants it done. That's not very admirable. End pt.2
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Pt.3 The fact that you "would never advocate [this prohibition of women as Driscoll describes it] as a law or even throw someone out of church for [it] suggests that deep down, logically, you don't see the merit in what is being said or, at the very least, you view the "sin" of breaking this law as a minor offense. But isn't all sin equal in the eyes of God? Isn't a woman asking out a man, then, as terrible as the murder of a child? End pt.3
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Pt.4 Now, given all I've said above, we can discuss rights and objective morality in the proper context. The statement "All men are created equal..." et cetera is certainly only true because we say it is true. Rights aren't real. A "right to life" won't save you from drowning in a lake. These are concepts humans have invented to negotiate and maintain a peaceful society. Nothing has inherent value. Value, rights, morality--these are all concepts, that, if they exist at all...end pt.4
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Pt.5 ...they exist in the mind. And even then, they don't really exist because everything that exists is made up of matter. Nothing that is metaphysical (beyond matter) has ever been shown to exist. We are nothing more than highly evolved beings living in an amoral, naturalistic environment. Any value we have we give ourselves. This to me is much a more fulfilling, positive worldview than to say that some cosmic father makes me all that I am. But that's just me. end pt.5
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Pt.6 So no, slavery is not objectively immoral in the sense that some cosmic warning bell goes off when it is done (btw, slavery isn't the example you should really be using considering the bible endorses it--Leviticus 25:44-46, Exodus 21:2-6). Slavery has been deemed immoral by most humans because we recognize that people deserve freedom and self-determination like we ourselves do; and because slavery induces harm and harm is detestable to most. End pt.6
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Pt.7 (I'm sorry, I just realized that you suggested a PM and here I've written all this on the webpage--sorry. Might as well continue) Finally, you present the Kalam Cosmological Argument (the William Lane Craig version) as evidence of morality? The existence of a god would not change the fact that morality is subjective. God is deciding what is moral and immoral. Or, if he isn't, morality is beyond even him. Look up Euthyphro's dilemma from Plato's dialogues for more. end pt.7
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Pt.8 (Last one, I promise.) Besides, the Kalam Cosmological Argument begs the question. It isn't considered a good argument by most philosophers for this reason. By claiming "Everything that begins to exist has a cause," the argument is suggesting that there are things that don't begin to exist. But this is the very thing that it is trying to prove.
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Response to pt 8. By all means posit something that has a beginning which doesn't have a cause. To deny this premise would severely fracture our understanding of life and science as we know them.
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho Pt.7 I never said that there was a thing that begins without a cause; I said that by suggesting such, the Kalam argument is assuming that there is a thing that either a) doesn't have a beginning (which has never been proven) or b) that there is a thing that doesn't have a cause (which has also never been proven). But this is what the argument seeks to prove. If an argument presents its conclusion in one of its premises, it begs the question and is therefore considered a poor argument.
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Pt.7 B) While we're at it, you deferred to science. Interesting, because science has never presented empirical evidence of anything metaphysical. No spirit world, no heaven, no supernatural beings or places of any kind. So, you're willing to accept science when it suits you, but not when it might destroy the validity of your Christianity? Hmm...
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick One of the base assumptions of naturalism is a closed system so outside explanations are not sought. It also does not, nor cannot, test anything of the supernatural realm as it isn't repeatable/detectable. Does that mean it doesn't exist? It cannot say. However, when examining this world we both get science - we just have two different explanations. And we also have tests to validate our hypotheses. Check out Evidence that Demands a Verdict.
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick We all accept base unprovable assumptions as a means of living and interacting with this world... I would say that everything that begins has a cause seems like a good one. Maybe I'm not getting what you're saying...
Either way I think you'll find this interesting :) "Dr. William Lane Craig humiliates Dr. Peter Atkins"
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Response to Pt 7. Kalam is for the existence to God. Craig is able to ascertain different characteristics of the first cause (God), but you'd have to look it up.
As for Euthyphro it is simply answered by goodness is founded in the very character of God. This answers Euthyphro because there is only one God and he is unchanging.
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho Pt.6 I know what the Kalam is. It's still a bad argument (more on that in the next part of my response). Your response to Euthyphro is St. Augustine's response. It's a good response. But you realize that if it's correct, your God is then bound by morality just as we are and that means he is NOT omnipotent. You see the problems you run into when you try to logically support an idea as complex and ludicrous as Yahweh?
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Is a truthful man able to lie? Yup. Will he ever lie? Nope. Same goes for God, but moreso.
That being said, the greatest act ever ever ever done was when Jesus, the perfect sinless man (God in the flesh) took our sin upon himself. At that moment the Father punished the Son on our behalf. Had Christ sinned? Nope... but he took the punishment for it. Just thought I'd share that because there is no greater good than that ever ever ever :)
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick P6 rspTo engage in something we know is wrong we must first devalue the other person involved. You see this in slavery... its justified as a kindness to the simple or a taking care of animals or punishment because they're woefully inferior morally or otherwise. People know its wrong. Slavery in the Bible is diff from modern slavery. They used it to pay off debts instead of death or prison. Also the masters would set them free/allow them to join the family after awhile.
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho Pt.5 I agree with you that slavery is wrong (obviously) and I think your explanation of why it is excused is apt. But don't you dare try to excuse the acceptance of slavery in the bible by saying it was different then and therefore better. People were still controlled completely by another human being and that is rephrehensible. If there was a law on the books in the US today saying that if someone owes another person $500+ they are to be that person's slave. Would you agree with it?
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Pt 5... I'm out of college paying off debt.... I have a small idea of what slavery is like. I know that if I don't pay it they will throw me in jail, take all I have, and put the debt on my family... all whether I want them to or not. My actions are restricted/somewhat controlled because of this. I'm thankful they won't kill me :)
Again stating slavery is wrong... on what basis? See... you really do believe in a universal morality :)
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Response to pt 4&5. Fulfilling? How so? We'd have no solid basis to differentiate good and evil, what a meaningful existence is, or anything to hope in, no explanation confusion we feel in pain and suffering. Our existence, apart from God noticing and lifting us up again, is like the tree that falls in the forest with nobody around.
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho Pt.4 I notice you haven't tried to refute my philosophical contention about subjective morality, you've only written on how it doesn't seem fulfilling to you. Can you refute it? As for whether it's fulfilling: It's a matter of disposition. This is going to sound condescending, but Freud spoke of those who can reject the safety and comfort of an eternal father figure & live their own lives according to their own tastes and desires and those who can't, those who want to remain children.
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Pt.4 (B) You're saying, as all Christians do, that your life has no meaning except within the context of an omniscient, omnipotent God. Why do you think you are so wretched? It really seems like a form of self-hate to me. God essentially beats you over the head with rules, threatens your eternal soul, and then pretends--after setting up the punishment--to save you from it. When you are in trouble, turn to friends and family instead. They love you for who you are--and they're real.
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick My life goes much the same way as the prodigal son when I decide to walk without God. I ruin my life and I hurt those I care about. Sure there is good times, but I for the longest time thought I was a bad person deserving of punishment and yet very bitter at anyone I thought a hypocrite. God saved me from that. Have you read the book of Romans? I think you'd like it and it would show that even without God's laws sin was still there. And it would show you his plan.
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick pt 4. I can say safely that whatever you're depending on is only as good as it is depending on universal truth/morality. If I granted your position I would say try pointing at something to say I'm good because and I'll simply respond that its arbitrary and you're standing on sinking sand. You don't live as if its arbitrary... nor can anybody and stay sane.
Freud wasn't a very happy guy. Are you satisfied with your system? Just curious...
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Response to pt3. I would be under a pastor who is not head of his household or fail to advocate this to others, nor would I marry a woman who is overly contentious. We're all at different places spiritually and not all of us spiritual giants. As we grow in our knowledge of Christ and trust him more we allow him to lead more. Concerning difference in sin... all sin causes separation between you and God and your fellow man... some has worse and longer reaching effects
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho Pt.3 Driscoll isn't arguing against contentious women, he's arguing against self-determining women. What your preaching here is Bronze Age misogyny in the 21st century. If Christ is 'telling' you or anybody that women should know their place, you've got some serious issues. I hope you're not married. I'll agree with your discussion of sin: that some sins have longer reaching effects. But by saying so you're contradicting the bible.
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick I'm not contradicting the Bible. All sin is basically death row severity in God's book on determining who can go to Heaven and who is going to Hell. However, that isn't saying some sin isn't worse than others and it will have worse punishment.
I disagree with your take on Mark and I'd add that apart from a universal morality you have no solid reason to object to it or call what you perceive it to be wrong.
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Response to pt2. Jesus said he did not come into this world to condemn it, but that it may have life and have it to the full. However, the problem is that we stand condemned already because of our massive debt of sins. I recommend Matthew 18:23-35 for a picture of whats been done on our behalf. You'll notice that the man still tries to pay his debt and turns away from the free gift offered him. We do good not to earn Heaven, but please God and love man.
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho Pt.2 Jesus's conception of having life to the full is not my idea of a full life. If I follow his path, I can't follow my own desires. It's Jesus's life I'd be striving to live, not my own. How can I be happy then, if I can't do what I want? Btw, this whole 'it's our fault' business is ludicrous because God set up the rules; he could easily take away the punishment we 'deserve.' Fulke Greville said it perfectly. We are "Created sick — Commanded to be well." Hell hangs over Christianity
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick P2 If it makes you feel better I didn't either... I just knew I hated this life of sin I was swamped in and he came into my life and changed/purified my heart and my desires. The Bible says delight yourself in the lord and he will give you the desires of your heart. As we trust him our needs will be met, we'll find deep satisfying love and relationships, meaning and purpose, and a full life in this world and especially the world to come.
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho **Pt.2 As I said before, if you need to look at your life through the prism of Christ's sacrifice and God's 'love' to feel protected and happy, I have no problem with that. I don't agree, but that's fine. I just don't feel like I need God (of course, he doesn't exist anyway, so it's a moot point). You'll look at me like all Christians do with pity, grimace, and tell me that I do need him. But it would make me unhappy to follow him b/c then I couldn't follow my own desires.
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Res Pt 2. I'm curious... you said that you used to be a Christian. What major life event happened to change that? Was it just that you didn't see your life and desires matching up to theirs and so you decided it was unrealistic/impossible, or was there something more? Also, if you're willing to share, what desires are you specifically talking about that you believe are contrary to the Bible?
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Response to pt1 Jesus said "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3 Christianity actually appeals to the moral law which has its its basis and founding in the image and character of God. Our "religion" stems around who God is, what he has done for us, and our relationship with him. We obey him out of love for him and others. God's word is our highest authority because God is the greatest good
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho Pt.1 OK, so you were presenting the crux (should I say cross?) of Christian thought before. I got it. But if your morality is based on the character of God, you've still got some explaining to do. God is sometimes, I'll grant you, a good guy. But most often, he's horribly wretched. See Numbers 15:32-36, Hebrews 10:30-31, Luke 12: 4-5, Isaiah 45:7, etc. God is far from the greatest good. I have no problem claiming that I, with all the immoralities of my past, am better than your god.
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick pt 1 (A) I'm glad to see you know some of the Bible... I hope you didn't just get those off a website :). God is utterly holy and in him is no darkness of all. Nor can he have anything to do with wickedness. He will not find the innocent one guilty, nor the guilty innocent. We too are commanded to be holy... and in honestly sinning may seem pleasurable for a moment, but it is devastating and all rightly despise it. The Jews were set apart to display God to the world.
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho **Pt.1 (My new comments will have asterisks to differentiate them.) My friend, you can't just ignore how cruel a deity Yahweh really is according to your own sacred text. Saying he is 'utterly holy' is nonsense considering all the horrible things he did/does. As for my knowledge of the Bible, I was a Christian for many years and I have read it twice all the way through as well as attend a Christian school and participate in numerous bible studies. I know the book.
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Res Pt.1(A) The problem of evil is only a problem if you are approaching this from a universal morality standpoint. Without it, the question self-destructs. I wish I could meet with you in person to address objections regarding God in person :P Any chance you live in Iowa?
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick pt 1 (B) As such the Israelites were commanded to keep sin out of their camp lest it spread like a disease/ affect their view of God. The man who got the sticks did so out of clear disobedience to God. The Law was to show just how high God's standard was... yet God forbear with all mankind until Christ could be revealed at the proper time and deliver his people from sin and death. Yet he won't force Christ on any. I'm curious have you ever taken the good person test?
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho **Pt.1(B) I've taken the good person test: it's definition of a good person is not my definition of a good person. Anent the sin issue: 1st, I don't believe in sin per se, but I will agree that certain momentary pleasurable experiences can be damaging in the long run--but not all. Sex before marriage, cursing, drug use, lying--these are all things that can be great short and long term when practiced w/ intelligence and care. The cleft between what you'd call sin and goodness, for me...
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick **Pt.1(C)...rests between harm and victimless action. 'Vices are not crimes' as Lysander Spooner so famously said. If I can sin and it doesn't hurt anyone, I don't have any regret in doing it. And even so, if an action does hurt someone, as long as it's not distasteful to me (b/c the person deserved it or b/c I deemed it necessary) I'll do it anyway b/c I recognize that sin, morality, etc. are just words I can use or discard. Now, just b/c someone sets a high standard doesn't mean...
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick **Pt.1(D)...that standard is good. I could say that anyone who doesn't bow their head when I walk by should be killed. (God does this essentially.) That is a high standard: that doesn't mean it's right or just. Any way you want to paint it, killing someone for picking up sticks on the wrong day is wrong b/c that dude didn't hurt anyone in doing so; he only hurt God's vanity. No, he won't force Christ on us, but he'll force hell on us. Kind of makes it a non-choice then, right?
Apmhflick 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Res pt 1 (D) On a side note... maybe we should pm after all and use "" 's to reference this as it is getting somewhat unwieldy/ I don't know the right protocol :P
I think it would be better to say that if you've rejected Christ you won't want to be in Heaven/around the one you've rejected. So God removes himself from you. Some say that hell is merely God and all his goodness removed. Life w/o God is no life at all.
As for the sticks... what do you remember of Romans?
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick Res Pt 1(C) - I don't know if one can sin and not affect another. At the very least sin affects how we view ourselves and others and will invariably affect our actions. Take porn for an example. Some say at least they aren't raping someone. Bad news is it increases your liklihood of doing so... you visualize it, you're less satisfied with normal sexuality, you view women/people as objects more. You enjoy your marriage less. Tons of devaluing goes on... no direct crime
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@Apmhflick The statement "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"... Is this statement true only because we say it is true? Or are we indeed born with inherent value? If not, then even slavery is not immoral in the strictest sense.
As for proof... look up the "First Cause" argument
1) Everything that has a beginning has a cause
2) The universe has a beginning
3) The universe has a cause
If honestly curious pm me and we talk
steveoho 2 weeks ago 2
I won't chase a man but he shouldn't chase me either. If he makes a move and I step away he should leave me alone. I want someone who meets me in the middle. I can encourage contact by being responsive and if I wanted to ask a man out I would but it never happens. They always make the first move. But them I'm only interested in men who are brave enough to make the first move. I'm not interested in men who don't want me or play hard to get. Nor do I play hard to get. It's stupid and degrading.
theplentysense 1 month ago
@theplentysense Meeting in the middle is adult and mature.Driscoll thinks like an adolescent with very bad views on relationships.
lovejumping2011 1 month ago
Comment removed
theplentysense 1 month ago
I would STAY far away from the woman who wrote that question to Mark. She has multiple personality disorder and proof of this is that she refers to herself as "women". Sorry honey, but one woman is more than enough.
DuhEnlightenedOne 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I see no reason at all why I should wait to be asked out and in fact have often asked a guy out. Most of the time the guys have told me they were very happy I did this because it was what they wanted to do but were too shy to do.
I really don't understand why so many Christians men are misogynists--no matter how sugar coated.
TheMystikChick 1 month ago
oh this is religious... No brainer !. Religion hates Women. If a Woman had half a brain, she would not ask a Man out from this part of society period. The church think Women are Animals. It's all a joke really, honestly.... they don't want to see Females as people, so therefore they have no rights and are obviously open to suspicion, disdain, subjugation and ridicule. Get a clue people.
starquant 1 month ago
What a bunch of anti-male garbage! According to this guy, men deserve all of the blame for the dating issues of women. If a woman wants a man to ask her out, she needs to make it clear that she likes him and wants to go out with him. Too many women don't get asked out because they don't convey this message.
sbtbfanatic 1 month ago
Fuck this.
YCpowerT 1 month ago
@Webzlinger (cont) believe that there's nothing better than the love of 'God' and loving 'God' really don't know much about the sciences, history, or about the amazing things on this planet and by extension the Universe, they're satisfied with mediocre and childish answers at best. That's NOT a healthy state of mind. Curiosity and skepticism are the things that drive our species forward, that's how we evolve and progress as a species. If blind worship was part of our genetic makeup then (cont)
Webzlinger 1 month ago
@Webzlinger cont) we'd still be in the Dark Ages, burning innocent girls at the stake, caught up in "holy" wars, chastity belts, living with diseases, shit and piss flowing on the streets, Droit du seigneur and countless other brain dead, superstitious, bullshit traditions. But, no need to get off on a rant here, religion will probably disappear in a few hundred years, humanity will realize one day that it's useless and vile, like slavery.
Webzlinger 1 month ago
I'm a christian, but I rolled my eyes quite a few times during this.
hazza335 1 month ago
i kind of like looking at this, though i'm not misogynist (far from it). i like seeing the view point from someone who isn't using the name "misogyny" to be a sexist pig and claim all women are sluts, which are what the only misogyinists i've ever come across claim.
kaelazion 1 month ago
Oh gee, thanks Mark. I'll go now, extract my ovaries, put them in a jar under the sink, padlock my pants and pray that someone will ask me out. That's a plan, right? I mean all I have is time, right? Screw you.
Omgirrl 1 month ago
Best piece of relationship advice I can think of is 'don't get relationship advice at church'
IAmKingBonzo 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@IAmKingBonzo that pretty much sums up the saying "the blind leading the blind"
Webzlinger 2 months ago
Very misogynistic. This could only possibly lead to the mindset that a man controls the relationship, I couldn't see any other conclusion. "A woman shouldn't speak up in a job interview!" "A women shouldn't speak out about women's issues!" "Only a man should lead a country, it would be unchristian for a woman to take initiative!
jedf666 2 months ago
@jedf666 That's my concern.I know women that aren't more than a child in their marriage.The husbands treat them like airheads.
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
Comment removed
jedf666 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This speech is terribly destructive. Jesus would have turned tables all around this church. The only thing any word from this guy means to me is that he's lost and desensitized. Not living in the world, he's living outdated history to benefit himself. Jesus Christ has no relation to modern conservative thought, whatsoever. Disagree? Pick up a copy of the bible and come back to me.
jedf666 2 months ago
@jedf666 Way to make conclusions that he didn't. Try asking a Christian why they do this rather than simply standing in judgment.
steveoho 1 month ago
Or never date and focus on life. Girls can be a waste of time. and Ditto, guys are a waste of time. God isnt. enjoy fellowship we don't need romance
GamerNerdTalk 2 months ago
@GamerNerdTalk so people are a waste of time, but an imaginary friend isn't? did you take your medication today?
Webzlinger 2 months ago
@Webzlinger Best comeback ever, nice one.
jayc342009 2 months ago
@jayc342009 lol, thank you
Webzlinger 2 months ago
@Webzlinger Your saying God is an imaginary friend??? Wow look who is talking now. Your heart is obviously in the wrong places
GamerNerdTalk 1 month ago
@GamerNerdTalk That might be true, but my brain isn't. Everything supernatural, spirits, gods, etc. are human inventions, easy answers to questions people are too lazy to find answers for.
Webzlinger 1 month ago
@Webzlinger Religion is not a believe, it is a way of life. Your trying to explain to me that God is a human invention for answers in our lives. Perhaps your able to see life this way. I for can't really see it. Read any book of the bible and you quickly realise that the action of living for God is so much more then just believing. It is a life devoted to a spiritual act of worship because we are not worthy of anything else. Isaiah talks about humans will wither away like grass in a field....
GamerNerdTalk 1 month ago
@GamerNerdTalk Please. You're just repeating the same advertising slogans believers have spat at people they considered 'Hell worthy' for thousands of years. Deep believers are like sleeper agents, not aware that they've been brainwashed. If all you hear growing up is God this, God that and Bible this, Bible that, then of course those things will be the only things you turn to when things get hard. Buddhism is a way of life, religion is a tool of ignorance and mental slavery. People who (cont)
Webzlinger 1 month ago
@Webzlinger our lives I don't think have much of a worth if it is not rooted and founded in the right things. To focus every waking desire on lives worries and not on God, or saying the theology of God is a made up conspiracy could very well be the reason why people focus so much on relationships and dating rather then focusing on areas of life that could create a huge impact, not saying dating doesn't But like he said. I love God, I like you, lets do something. The key point was "I Love God"
GamerNerdTalk 1 month ago
@Webzlinger Please stop. If you're an atheist go ahead and ignore a properly basic belief, but please don't insult us with more Santa, Tooth Fairy, Zeus analogies. If you're that passionate about these issues, take it outside.
breenhill 1 month ago
@breenhill That's the problem see, you don't realize that I'm not trying to insult you, I want to jolt some reality into people like you, besides, Santa, Tooth Fairy, Zeus, yep, they're pretty accurate analogies. Heck, I'll take it everywhere.
Webzlinger 1 month ago
@Webzlinger Why do you want to supposedly use your awe-inspiring intellect to "jolt" some of us into reality. Whose reality? Yours where arrogance is virtue and ethics and meaning are illusory figments of the desperate drama-craving mind? If you feel like you're that superior, go out on the street and give your life to the cause of telling people there is no God. Spend your time debunking the cosmological, the ontological, moral, and teleological arguments instead of invective vomit.
breenhill 1 month ago
@GamerNerdTalk u say enjoy fellowship but ur a gamer? hmmm get a woman. try harder not to try at all. think about that 1. im here to help
mnypwrrspkt 2 weeks ago
Something that bothers me about some churches is the leaders treat women like airheads.I hope I can find one that knows women can think and be logical.I remember at a group leaders house he said women don't think.ggrrr
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
There's nothing worse as a woman than to have your sexuality dictated to you by men.If a man wants a woman without any sexual needs then he deserves what he gets.If a man will only respect a woman if she plays coy then he gets a game played on him.Some men are sooo dumb.
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
It's so stupid how people think there should be an organized system for how people should start dating. It's convenient to believe that all people are the same, but it's not true. If you connect with someone you connect, if not, oh well. It really IS that simple. Enough of this gender role bull shit, my god.
xxESPx 2 months ago 2
@xxESPx It IS,it's all about connection.I don't see how anyone connects if they are playing games on each other.These out dated gender roles keep people from knowing each other on a deep level.
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
women are not 2 ask man out. the bible says a man is aupose 2 leave his house at some point n join together wife his wife to become one. it didnt say the woman it said the man. a man will not really fully love n respect a women if she ask him out cuz it seems like shez disprete for him so her value to him will drop
pghanyea 2 months ago
@pghanyea What you're saying is a man loses respect for a woman if she acts like a real human.Stop putting women on the sexless level,we have sexual needs too,plus we aren't desperate we're sexual too!
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
@pghanyea The Bible does not say HOW it only says to leave.I guess you only respect a woman if she has no life in her.
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
Guys need to look nice too.How many times as women do we hear a guy say wear this to please me,well I'm sick of sloppy guys that look horrible.Girls have eyes too!
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
you have to be shure the guy is intrested in you first. you dont get dress so the guy can find intress in you, you dress up to impress the guy when their is already intress
pghanyea 2 months ago
i like his comment when he said "do what ruth did. get all dressed up AND GET IN HIS WAY!!!" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL fabio here i come to annoy you darling!!!
nehima777 2 months ago
What a dull life we wants women to lead! BoRiNg!
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
"Non-Christians shouldn't date 'Christians'. My non-Christian bro married a 'good Christian girl'. She was the center of his universe. Three months after the wedding, he found out she was cheating on him.He was always upset at the fact she'd (at 18 years old) had been with a countless number of guys, and my bro had only been with her. Now I ask you, what makes "Christians" so great? Atheists, in my experience, can be WAY 'better people' than any christians I know. Girls go ahead and ask guys out
eajoseph217 2 months ago 2
@eajoseph217 Your good non Christian brother probably married a masked 2 face Christian woman AKA a wolf in sheep's clothing (not a true righteous woman of GOD). There are thousands or probably millions of so called Christians that are that way in America and its so fuckin sad and unfortunate! I hope your Brother finds the right women (a good one esp) Christian or non Christian that will love him from her heart and never be selfish and mean and cheat on him.
RussX5Z 3 weeks ago
@RussX5Z TYSSSSSSM :) My brother has been dating a friend of mine for a little over a year. She's Catholic, but religion isn't her main concentration. She's a good person who 'happens' to be Catholic... Which is what my brother and I were baptized as. I don't think religion makes someone 'good' or 'bad', although there have been awful ppl who do awful things in the name of it. Bro's ex-wife was more than a wolf in sheep's clothing, LOL, she was/is the devil incarnate!!! THANK YOU, AGAIN
eajoseph217 2 weeks ago
:P
Seriously what's wrong with a girl asking a guy out?
If Mark thinks that's wrong, lol what dose he think this is the Victorian era?
SoniaSephia 2 months ago
@SoniaSephia Even in a Victorian era a girl would ask a guy out.:) Things were much more free back then then anyone knows.Now Christians got neurotic about everything especialy if it has to do with women thinking.
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
@lovejumping2011 lol yeah. I'm a Christian but when i hear stuff like this i'm just like :P whatever lol!
SoniaSephia 2 months ago
@SoniaSephia LOL! I can't understand why he's so obsessed with this.LOL! I mean it would be better if he taught about the love of Christ.
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
@lovejumping2011 LOL! why he's soo obsessed with this? How dose he think he can decide how two people fall in love? XD how many licks dose it take to get to the center of a this man's narrow minded brain? ;) "the world many never know." lol Totsie Pops reference! XD
SoniaSephia 2 months ago
@SoniaSephia It's like he thinks he'll be right there telling them how to fun their life.I wonder about the licks myself!LOL! LOLLLLLLL!!!!!! Thank you for that! :) We needed some humor here! :)LOL!
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
@lovejumping2011 :) No problem. And I hope this guy dose not harm your views towards Jesus. Please i hope not. a good down to earth pastor i know is called Matt Brown, of sandals church, he's real and just a relatable guy. please check out his online sermons when u can, at sandalschurch com. And please look to Jesus Christ, ignore that this crazy man said. Jesus preached that he is the way, the truth, and the life, the greatest hope to live in. Jesus loved John 3:16, and Romans 5:8
SoniaSephia 2 months ago
@SoniaSephia Thank you for telling me about Matt Brown.:) I need to find a down to earth church leader that doesn't have all these rules for dating.Sometimes what a preacher says can ruin Jesus's message.The church members are sometimes not welcoming.It's hard to find a church with the love of Jesus.So many churches now believe this Mars and Venus stuff.It's too bad they can't see how it effects the members.He's crazy for usre.He misses the point about love from Jesus.
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
@lovejumping2011 Your welcome :) And don't let backwards religious men hold you back from coming the Jesus Christ. If u have a Bible (walmart has them cheap lol) read in order to see who Jesus is, and how Jesus wants u to come to Him by his ways :) Not some pastor/church persons ways but by Jesus's way John 15 John 3:16. :) yes please check online at sandalschurch com, his sermons Art of Authenticity :) I know u will enjoy. today is sunday u can watch it live :) hope u do.
SoniaSephia 2 months ago
@SoniaSephia You're totally right :) i have to get what these pastors say out of my mind.I notice how so many don't focus on Jesus but instead on some social thing.They miss the message of Jesus.I need to read the Bible like I did for convermation class years ago.I have a Bible but gave it to my sister.I'll get it back cause she has her own.:) You're the nicest person I've met here recently.Jesus is with you.:) Love!ooxxx
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
@lovejumping2011 :) Thank you, aaawww! Ur nice as well. And I see u have a heart for Jesus Christ, invite in, you on the right path. It's ok loud dumb pastors like these can distract us from Jesus, yes they love to focus on social things, and just be bunch of Nazi's lol! Buy hey :) u r on right path, just leave out whatisaid by the crazies and open ur ears for Jesus Christ :) dont worry ibeen there 2 worry over pastors,forgot Jesus. Now u remember :) pray to welcome Christ back <3
SoniaSephia 2 months ago
@SoniaSephia :) Hi Friend!:) I turned off the sound!LOL! There's lots of noise out there focused on how to run our lives.I know women in my town that didn't want to be Christians anymore because they felt the pastors weren't listening to single women.I told them what you told me and now they are back!:)You're a great wirness for Jesus.We sometimes have to put blinders on and have ear pluggs.LOL! I have to focus on Jesus and not the pastors.:) Smiles.:D
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
@lovejumping2011 You two are annoying me. Are you going to try to sound like gentle little ladies while bashing Driscoll? I notice you two just keep talk on this video rather than have a private conversation on your own personal emails, phones, or face to face. It's fine that you two have opinions, but don't bring Jesus as your advocate if you're going to spam the comment section with your "subtlety" in calling Christians misogynist assholes.
suib21 2 months ago
@suib21 But why can't people have a different view and question Driscoll? My grandpar\ents met at a church and grandpa didn't chase grandma.It just all happened nicely with equality.But Jesus never said anything about dating etc.
lovejumping2011 2 months ago
@SoniaSephia There's NOTHING wrong with a girl asking a guy out! I can't stand how some people (especially those who take the Bible/Qu'ran as literal) insist that women are second-class citizens! Not all theists think like that, and that's not what I'm implying, so others, PLEASE don't bombard me with "you damn heathens hate GOD" messages! Yep. I'm Atheist. Guess what? When I was Catholic, I had no problem asking guys out, nor was I reprimanded for it. It's not a bad thing at all!
eajoseph217 2 weeks ago
@eajoseph217 ??? I agree with u 110%. Where did u get the idea that I think it is wrong? Please look at my comments, particularly those with lovejumping, we are both Christian girls at overall don't like Marks old fashion view of this. Me and her would both agree with u. So please tell me how u thought I was siding with Mark on this? LOL maybe someone delete my comments lol or i been hacked XD
SoniaSephia 2 weeks ago
@SoniaSephia Hey! Gal! :) Driscoll is so Mars/Venus.Everybody has their own personality.Nobody is 'hardwired'like Driscoll thinks.Church should be about helping and fellowship not controlling people.I know people that had to change their phone numbers because churches got so controlling.The churches were harrassing people.
lovejumping2011 2 weeks ago
@lovejumping2011 Just be glad he isn't a Muslim :) That being said I actually like Mark and respect his teaching and passion to see people liberated from this world's way of living quite a bit.
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho It would be nice if Christian guys wiould stop dissing Muslim guys,I think you all do it because you know you treat women like babies so you need to diss Muslim guys to feel better about yourselves.I know Muslim men and they aren't like you said they are.You have a limited view of Muslims from what your narrow minded bigoted preachers tell you,I know I've heard it all.I've had some very bad experiences with Christian guys.
lovejumping2011 2 weeks ago
@lovejumping2011 And I know Christian men and they aren't as you said they are... they actually hold women in very high esteem. The question in this case... were the men, be they muslim or christian, following accurately what their religion/Bible said? Also, if I may ask, do you ascribe to a religion or creed?
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho I've been to enough churches to know how Christian men baby women and won't let us grow up.The Muslim men were following Islam but they never had the attutudes toward women that Christian men do like women can't do math etc.Most Christians now are very sexist.Also they were from the Shia sect not Sunni.Too many Christian men are into Mars/Venus John Gray,
lovejumping2011 2 weeks ago
@lovejumping2011 If the women around them didn't have full covering then they were not following Islam. I'm sorry the men in the church didn't treat you with respect and in a way which you felt loved and appreciated. I haven't heard of anyone around me reading the book you're talking about... more often I hear them checking out a book called "Love and Respect". I also like "Marriage takes more than love". Perhaps they can show you what Christian relationships are really like
steveoho 2 weeks ago
@steveoho Read "Islam" by Karen Armstrong.You have ideas about Islam that probably come from bigoted church.All the Muslim women I know are far more free than the Christian womeen I've known.Women need respect too but Christianity or your version of it doesn't seem to know that.
lovejumping2011 2 weeks ago
@lovejumping2011 I don't care for the bigoted statements as much as you... so please stop. I understand you're talking out of hurt so I don't hold it against you... I hope you'll forgive those who've hurt you in time.
steveoho 1 week ago
@steveoho I'm not talking out of hurt,I'm talking out of disgust for all these stupid rules like Driscoll has ablout women can't do this or that.oh please! I'm standing up for rights women deserver.Chrstianity has become a very narrow religion.
lovejumping2011 1 week ago
@lovejumping2011 When you read the verse "If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." What comes to mind? And when you read that Eve (woman) was created to be Adam (man's) helpmate? If you were trying to obey these verses how would you go about it? Btw, may I ask what religious background you have/ are in now?
steveoho 1 week ago
@steveoho We should agree to disagree.I have to get back to my life.I don't agree with you about the helpmeet stuff.Let's just say so long to this.
lovejumping2011 1 week ago