Notice they don't actually give the correspondence between Pliny and Trajan? That's because it's a virtual dismissal. Sure he existed. Before the giant cult of personality though, outside the Jewish world, no one cared.
@megamind0001 - Saint Peter never existed. He is a lampoon of Simon the Zealot in the Jewish War by Josephus. It's what we call fictional writings, it's not that difficult to get your head around.
Here's the problem. NONE of the historians had anything to go on other than what Christians told them orally. Tacitus, if you bother to read him for yourself, even mentions he was simply relaying what Christians told him.
Flavius wasn't contemporary with "Jesus" anyway, he was born 3 years after "Jesus" supposedly died.. And Tacitus simply told of followers of a chrestos, there were many of those back then. Those two, that's all the christians have other than "The Bible". So if "Jesus" existed, he certainly wasn't an important figure: )
Never mind 2nd century, what about when Jesus was around? Why is there not a single Greek or Roman (non-bible source) mention of Jesus in the first century? Why is the biblical slaughter of the innocents not recorded elsewhere? why is the resurrection earthquake and "zombies" (Mt 27:51) of the bible not recorded elsewhere?
And even if Josephus *wasn't* a forgery (as many believe), he wasn't an eyewitness, he just says "there was a wise man named Jesus."
the passage quoted is considered a 4th century forgery inserted into Josephus' original text, as it doesn't make sense in the context of the chapter, nor does it make sense for Josephus to use the word Gentile, a word that emerges after the writing of his works.
@alexicoff - I thought the Testimonium Flavainum was generally considered to be genuine. Joe Atwill gives a unique and thorough explanation of it - google - Atwill on TF.
This is basically saying that yes, it is genuine, but Jesus still never existed and here's why.
Regardless of whether he existed or not, the laws of physics were the same back then so no miracles could happen then either. Forget the ancient tales now, will you? Jeez. : )
@winterstellar We have accounts of 100s of people witnessing miracles in the New Testament. That is evidence to say that they happened. Of course the law of physics is still the same and always will be, but that is how something is defined as a miracle, it goes beyond physics and does what is considered to be 'impossible'. Why would 100s of people accounted in the New Testament be lying about what they saw? Mark 6:30-44.
Q: Lo! Those who disbelieve among the people of Scripture and idilaters will abide in the Fire Hell.They are worst of created beings,And Lo! Those who believe and do good works are the best of created beings.Their reaward is with their Lord;Garden of Eden underneath with river flow,wherein the dwell forever.Allah is pleased with them and they are please with Him.This is(In store) for him who fears his Lord,
I bear witness there Is Only One God and Muhammad PBUH is the Last Prophet
The early Christians beliefs that Jesus was not Crucified,truth of Quran become clear= QR: But they killed him not but so it was made to apear to them,and those who differ therein are full of doubt,with no certain knowledge,but only conjecture to follow.for a surety they killed him not
Mark 7:8 you leave the commandement of God,and hold fast the tradation of men Corinthains 15:15 becoz we testified of God that he RAISED CHRIST whom he did not raise if it true that the dead are not raised
Did Jesus asked His Lord a daily Bread food=Yes Did Jesus asked to strengthen Him against satan =Yes Did Jesus Bow down to His Lord =Yes Did Jesus Prophet from Nazareth=Yes Did Jesus Prophet sent By God Al Mighty=Yes Did Jesus has normal Birth like Human=Yes Did Jesus ordered mankind to worship him = N0 Did Jesus raised from dead=NO Did Jesus Like human being =Yes Did Jesus Created Universe,angle,Jinns Satan Earth,Planets =No So,Who was Jeesus = Prophet of God alone
@24Crede24 Seems pompous think humans are better than other animals. Your god sends 10 plagues killing innocent kids and livestock and giant flood that kills everyone. (Although we know these stories are fake we're talking about an imaginary thing so it's always fun playing the what-if game)
How surprising that the Bible says that in the last days will come scoffers, unbelievers who have turned against God. And He, God, will harden their hearts and allow their eyes and ears to be closed to the TRUTH!!! All of those who claim that Jesus is not the Son of God are actually giving validation to the Bible's verses that show He foretold of your unbelief....DONT become one of the many that will be lost because of TOTAL rejection of Jesus and God's judgement in these final days!!!
@lhmccracken Is that the same god who killed babies, innocent people, animals, is a dead beat dad, abuses power, and envious among his other wonderful traits? Well sign me up for the conversion. (sarcasm)
@smileyraw Actually my reference for God 'blinding their eyes and closing their ears was taken from John 12-because even when people see miracles they still refuse to believe-and God allows their hearts to harden towards Him-so I guess the 'stupidity' as you call it makes reference to the Bible itself -And since so many deny His existence or want God out of our lives, don't blame Him for the tragedies in our world today since it takes faith in Him to get protection from Him...
@lhmccracken God 'blinding their eyes and closing their ears was taken from John 12-"
First of all, God and Christianity aren't bound hip to hip. It's the same creator for everyone, and one can not be a christian but still believe in God. And secondly, internal evidence shows that the writer of the John gospel wasn't John the apostle. That and the fact that the John gospel was written some 60-80 years after the fact. Thata makes him one who is simply passing along hearsay.
1- A currently story circulating on YT about Leviticus 11:6. It says that the hare is a ruminant. Obviously, the whole world will say that The Bible is stupid and it can not be The Word of God. So, I did some research and discovered that, indeed, the hare is a ruminant!
The biblical scribes ''knew'' that the hare was not a ruminant! But since they can not remove any words from the Word of God, they always left it.
People of ALL religious faiths seem to fall into this category. They ALL claim to be right, they ALL claim to be able to prove it, they ALL claim to have superior powers of interpretation of religious script, they ALL claim that all other interpretations, theories and faiths are false, they ALL claim to follow the only true faith, they ALL claim to have been saved by a God. All religious devotees are as daft as each other, as they can't even agree amongst themselves..talk about deluded.......
I wonder what's the problem? Before Christ, there have been many great historical figures such as Pharaohs, great Scientists (Plato, Aristotle, Archimedes etc) Astronomers (Ptolemy, Aristarchus of Samos, Hipparchus) and many others. Everyone believe in those figures without problems, but when it comes to Jesus, people believe that He is only an invention.
@liduq Maybe for them , Jesus is just too good to be true... He said things, claimed things that would make an ordinary person look like a poached egg... So, I think, they're just trying to dismiss Him from their minds and the best way for a person to avoid Him is to deny or ignore Historical facts about Jesus...
@liduq I believe the problem is that jesus was an extraordinary person according to the bible. He apparently turned wine into water, healed the blind, walked on water and performed other miracles like that. And with extraordinary claims like that, extraordinary evidence is needed. I'm pretty sure a person named jesus that preached love and peace may have existed, and that the bible may have been based on him, but I do not believe that he was born of a virgin, or the son of a god.
@wengsiang1 Mary herself doubted too if she was really pregnant by the Spirit. Or if whom she really bore was God's begotten. Friend you're not the first one to have doubts on that.
@wengsiang1 the wonderful thing about Mary's query is that it lead her to say Yes to God and that she is God's faithful servant. Yes she is smarter than some Christians and braver too; some Christians hide away when God gives them a task. :)
@wengsiang1 She did not merely believe but SAW the ultimate proof of God's unfailing love; no matter how scary or unbelievable it might had been for her
@wengsiang1 : ''...extraordinary evidence is needed.''
Third, He born and accomplished all that was written about him in the Bible. Fourth, He was tortured, crusified and His death was horrible. Why a man would suffer like this, just for fun to convince everyone that He is the Son of God?
The NT, is His Word, His testimony, The testimony of those who have known Him and Those who experienced Him after His death.
@liduq The problem is that the bible is just 1 book. It is insufficient to convince me that he actually performed those miracles that he supposedly did in the bible. I haven't really gone all out and searched everywhere for these testimonies, but what I have found so far has led me to the conclusion that there is insufficient evidence to believe in the miracles the bible claims. Although there were already historians in the time of jesus, there's no document that mentions him except the bible
@wengsiang1 The Bible is ONE book: coherent, no-self-contradiction. It is a compilation of books that took 1500 years to be written and compiled with 44 or more authors all pointing to Christ: to this Galilean, a carpenter's son, ugly, no prominence, looked-down on, despised, thought of as delusional even by His own mother, hated by His siblings, hanged like a Criminal even His disciples betrayed Him. Given all these what "respected" Historian in Jesus' lifetime would write of an outcast?
@gatsbyfaulkner The bible is riddled with contradictions. A brief search on google will tell you as much. Also, talking snakes, woman being formed from man's ribs, and a huge worldwide flood is far from coherent. Given that jesus performed so many crazy stuff like walk on water, heal the blind, turn water into wine, it is absurd to think that historians will not record such extraordinary occurences. Also there were no writings about or from the 500 ppl that witnessed his ressurection
@wengsiang1 Sir you have to do better than quote from google or wikileaks. Read solid stuff. Not riddle-ridden contradicting suspicious fictitious documents.
@gatsbyfaulkner Read a little down. The lines I gave seem pretty darn like contradictions to me. Also, there are many former christians that have intensively studied the bible, and have come up with the conclusion that it is full of contradictions, and overall is utter bull. The god in the bible is also immoral, at least imo, and this opinion is shared by many others.
@wengsiang1 Don't base evidences on opinions. To say God is immoral is a deep subject to be touched by those who knows God, not by those who deviated from this.
@gatsbyfaulkner What iam saying is that the god depicted in the bible is immoral. I do not know if the bible gives an accurate representation of such a god, but the one depicted in the bible is obviously immoral imho
@wengsiang1 I would like to continue my statement, people who attack Christianity KNOWS what they dealt with: Nietzsche was a Pastor's son, Stalin a former Seminarian, Marx and Engels were both former Christians. What they have in common? It's not the lack of knowledge of the scriptures but their TOTAL commitment to destroy it. So it's rebellion. Atheists say they do not believe in God. I am a former Atheist. At the back of their minds, they know Him but they just reject Him.
@wengsiang1 To find out whether God is immoral or whether Jesus existed, or whether he existed but religious beliefs around him are a sham, you've got to get out of your prejudices and have one-on-one contact with this God. As Flannery O'Connor says: "All human nature vigorously resists grace because grace changes us and change is painful." To welcome the challenge of knowing God if He is real or not requires tons of faith.
@gatsbyfaulkner I live in Singapore, a massively secular country with 4 or more religions coexisting perfectly side by side. I was brought up to not have any prejudices towards any other religion, although I was brought up in Buddhism. I have christian friends, Islamic friends, Buddhist friends and hindu friends. There was a point in time where I considered turning to Christianity, but after doing a bit of studying, I found all religions absurd, and became an atheist.
@wengsiang1 To say God is immoral, why would Jesus give a margin of error for believers? It takes time to believe in Him. And he designed it this way. I was frustrated too. Because why didn't Jesus left pamphlets or annals, or anything? The answer is simple. Proofs of miracles did not sink in but gather oohs and aahhs from spectators, not genuine faith or repentance. He allows us to question Him because in this way, we can TALK to him w/o fear.
@wengsiang1 It's okay to find religions absurd or any ideologies absurd. One can't be religious over night because it's your choice. It took me 8 years of Atheism before I found out that all along Jesus had been looking for me like a Shepherd looking for a missing ewe. God let's this things happen, to my surprise actually. If you want, I suggest you find a book by C.S Lewis "Surprised By Joy". And Ravi Zacharias' "Has Christianity Failed You?". Both authors are former Atheists.
@gatsbyfaulkner Can I ask? What did it take to turn to christianity? I'm not asking this in a hostile or rude way or anything. I'm just curious how you came to the conclusion that there is a god, and that the bible is all true
@wengsiang1 Former Christians rely on seasoned attacks of Atheists and Agnostics against religion. So the so-called former christians are nothing new. Though, I doubt whether they truly believe what they are believing now.
@gatsbyfaulkner Not always true. Some atheists indeed attack christianity without any knowledge of the religion. However, not all atheists are like that. An example is Matt Dillahunty, who used to be a Christian fundamentalist studying to be a minister. His intensive study of the bible led him to denounce his faith after serious consideration. He now hosts the atheist experience. Also, the verses I quoted. Please tell me if I,m wrong. I really want to know if I made a mistake.
@wengsiang1 I don't know the life story of Dillahunty but he man you mentioned reminds me of Stalin. He was once a man of God; he even made small apologetics on God. But he turned away from his calling and one can understand why: Russia was under turmoil. And in a world like this, w/o faith, it's impossible to live by. So he became an atheist. All the evidences he once proved, he personally destroyed. The last dying act of Stalin was he was on his deathbed raising a fist to heaven.
@gatsbyfaulkner What has Stalin got to do with Matt Dillahunty? I can assure you he is not a communist dictator, nor did he reject god only because his world is under turmoil. He rejected his faith because his studies led him to the conclusion that all this was absurd. I'm sorry if I seem a little harsh, but it looks as if you are trying to equivocate him to Stalin.
@wengsiang1 Stalin studied the scriptures too. Only he did not find this plausible in the real world that he lived. Conclusions made by Dillahunty or even Hitchens are born from this: the implausibility of faith.
@gatsbyfaulkner You are completely over-generalizing. You look at a few atheists in the past, or even at yourself, and you see some are bad people, some are dictators. Then you draw the conclusion that all atheists are dictators, and their only goal is to take down christianity. This is not true at all. I am completely fine with christians as people, only that I find them a little silly. The fact that Matt turned away from christianity showed that he found something wrong with the religion.
@wengsiang1 As I have said, it's your choice. But beware of what they trumpet out loud. The effects they have on the academe, politics, even religion. Now in America, there are groups proposing Atheism to become a religion. Religion literally meant "to be tied to" - God. Atheism literally means "No God" from A- negative and Theos- God. It's negative-god or No God. If it becomes religion to whom are they tying themselves with, when Atheism means there's no God?
@gatsbyfaulkner What exactly are atheist's ideology? Atheism is not a religion, not a world view, not a dogma of any sorts. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god. Atheism is unlikely to impact anything at all. It is just a singular lack of belief in a deity. In response to those people trying to make atheism into a religion, that is absurd. They are probably anti-theist, people who are completely certain there is no god.
@wengsiang1 When we no longer see the 'tunnel vision', that's when one turns to Christ. That's why he proclaimed the beatitudes. But of course this would not suffice to a skeptic. It requires just yourself. Atheism is not simply lack of belief. Atheism is the 'ideal' for some like Dawkins and Sam Harris; they have de-baptizing services in America where one can renounce his/her faith freely; hence, ideology.
Though I really wish Atheism has no impact, but it has one.
@gatsbyfaulkner Indeed, some atheists carry out actions seemingly attributed to atheism. However, it is more likely that these actions are instead caused by their outright distaste, disapproval or even hatred for religion. One can be an atheist and not dislike religion. To bring up Dawkin's and Harris' actions and attributing it to atheism is post hoc ergo propter hoc.
@wengsiang1 I cannot quote all the things Dawkins said but this is his view of God or religion: that God is a homophobic, an infanticidal, sexist, etc... To which Ravi Zacharias retorted: "I don't know if I am confused or he (Dawkins) is... But if there is no God, then who did all those things (Dawkins' quote on God)?! Why are you so big on Humanity and so small on God when Humanity manufactured the God that you deny?".
@wengsiang1 R.Zacharias says: we cannot judge a worldview by it's abuse but by what it asserts. Thru out this debate I have been careful not to "blame it all on" Atheism. But I have been open to what Atheism ASSERTS and the effects its assertion has on humanity. I respect Dawkins. Like Nietzsche, he was painfully honest about the human condition. However, anyone who has listened to Dawkins, Hitchens (BTW Hitchens is now a Christian after being diagnosed with Cancer), Harris and Flew, (1)
@wengsiang1 (con't.) HAVE ALSO HEARD their scathing attacks AND hatred on religion ESPECIALLY Christianity. Dawkins, Flew (who also a late comer to Christ), Harris, and Hitchens (now a Christian) have played the "Blame Game" quite well.... I've never seen Christian Apologists like Dr. R. Zacharias, Prof. John Lennox, Michael Madsen, Philip Yancey, et.al. DO the blame game.
@wengsiang1 BTW, before I stop this conversation (need to do my lesson plan), I'd like to say it's really nice to talk to someone as "deep" as you. I hope we can be friends on YT; "We can have our disagreements but we don't have to be disagreeable" (R.Zacharias); if you want to reply, just send me a message or post a comment, thnx.
@wengsiang1 : ''The problem... the bible is just 1 book. It is insufficient''
(Tacitus) among the first historians of antiquity in terms of accuracy and fairness of trial. In ''Chronicles 15'' pargraph 44 ''...Christ, which, under Tiberius, was handed the punishment by the procurator...''
Also other great people who talk in writtings considered to be part of history. (Suetonius, Pliny the Young, Senaca and Juvenal, Lucian, Celsus) And many more...
@wengsiang1 : ''The problem... bible is just 1 book. It is insufficient''
In fact, you're wrong. :)
The Jewish historian of antiquity, Flavius Josephus almost contemporary of Jesus. (37-100) quotes Jesus in his books ''Jewish Antiquities'' and ''The Jewish War''. He speaks of Jesus. He even noted the stoning of ''James, brother of Jesus called Christ''
Jesus's also mentioned in the Talmud. Surprising but true. But not in flattering terms,as expected from Jews since they dont like Him.
@wengsiang1: ''...extraordinary evidence is needed.''
Yes I know, but when someone refutes even the existence of Jesus, and we, knowing that He exists, one is obliged to seek and give evidence, which in any case people will refutes.
First, the Bible is a translation of the Torah, Second, throughout the Bible, Jesus is announced.
Proof of Jesus? Nonsense. Nothing in this video constitutes proof of Jesus, son of 'god'. What a pathetic bunch Christian scholars are, claiming proof of Jesus, and by extension proof of the Christian god. They have zero evidence of this savior, let alone 'proof'. And they will find none, ever. It doesn't exist.
Here's a tip Mr LaneCh: facts and arguments that survive scientific scrutiny or stand in a court of law -that is what constitutes 'evidence'. And 'proof' is even more demanding
1 An historical Jesus may have existed (a wandering rabbi named Jesus) or even several such peripatetic savant-types.
2 No proof of such a person exists
3 No evidence (let alone proof) of a 'son of god' has been offered, ever, that could meet scientific/ legal standards. Certainly not in the video you referenced
4 Believers prefer to use self-serving definitions of evidence and proof
5 Existence of the Abrahamic god has vanishing probability
@gangster3591 don't nobody have to prove anything i mean who the heck are you gangster hahaha you are the one who has to disprove the existance of GOD you came into this channel debating ovr 2000 yrs people have testified of JESUS and HIS work in their live who are you? but n insignificant fool who after 70 or so yrs no 1 will remmember you but not JESUS thought GANGSTER hahaahahahahha
@patriotsfan1379 : "don't nobody have to prove anything i mean who the heck are you gangster, insignificant fool hahaha"?
You're quite a dazzling wit Mr Patriotsfan. I'm not surprised you missed the point: a burden of evidence/proof lies with those who assert truth, not with those who reject assertions in the absence of evidence. It's a principle of logic that requires some education/intelligence for understanding, a level greater than what you appear to have
I have found no evidence over many years that would substantiate your claims. Why do Christians make things up? Because anything they claim is non existent or so weak it could hardly be taken with any substance. If The Bible is as true and powerful as you claim, why do we not see the works of the love of Christ evident today? They fail on every hand and the modern day Christian Church is weak, full of hate and deceit. They have forgotten their commission and lost their compassion!
@liduq If born in Salt Lake City, I would most likely be a Mormon. If born in an Islamic Country, I'd probably pray to Mohammed. Most people born in a Christian society (as you were) follow the Bible. Conclusion: Religious perspective, is based ONLY on geographical location!! You're merely a product of your environment, and influenced accordingly. If you were born in the Borneo jungles, your concept of religion would be zero. So why read the Bible, and not the Quran or the book of Mormon?
@aliveandkicking57 : ''Conclusion: Religious perspective, is based ONLY...''
I have a niece who never believed. But one night she dreamed of Jesus Who told her to wake up, to take her baby and leave the house. It's what she has done. The house was burning. Since then, I can tell you, she believes blindly.
@aliveandkicking57 : ''Conclusion: Religious perspective, is based ONLY...''
I understand what you say, is it the same for you. You dont believe because...
I think most people at one time or another, end up thinking for themselves. I am not at all the gullible kind, but yet...
I am not from a religious family, but... Strangely, and I dont know why, I have always believed since my earliest childhood, even before starting school. For me it's not even a belief, it's just obvious.
@liduq Evidences ARE obvious. And this is a huge problem for skeptics. Fyodor Dostoevsky says: "The genuine realist, if he is an unbeliever, will always find strength and ability to disbelieve in the miraculous, and if he is confronted with a miracle as an the irrefutable fact he would rather disbelieve his own senses than admit the fact. Faith does not...spring from the miracle, but the miracle from faith"
Respond to this video... Given the infinite amount of theorising and speculation (and I use the words advisedly) currently on the internet,and the ridiculous amount of time it would take to read and contemplate, I would suggest the following: 1. Do something more constructive with your life 2. Practice and believe whatever you want, just keep it to yourself. 3 Leave all conjecture to be resolved by time. We will ALL eventually know the truth...truth comes......... with death
@ktorch First you say that Christians make things up. Then you insist on saying that the Christian Church is full of hate and deceit. Are you not then asking for the Church to be moral? And since you say CHRISTIANS HAVE FORGOTTEN THEIR COMMISSION, it's as if you BELIEVE in what Christians believe: that they have to be perfect for God is perfect. I think your statements got mixed up.
@ktorch Flannery O' Connor says: All your dissatisfaction with the church seems to me to come from incomplete understanding of sin. What you actually seem to demand is that the church put the Kingdom of heaven on Earth right here now, that the Holy Ghost be translated at once into all flesh... Christ is crucified on earth and the church is crucified in time...The church is founded on Peter who denied Christ tree times and who couldn't walk on water by himself..." (1)
@ktorch (con't)... you are expecting his successors to walk on water. All human nature vigorously resists grace because grace changes us and change is painful. Priests resist it as well as others. To have the church be what you wanted it to be would require the continuous miraculous meddling of God in human affairs..."
That GOD "is" is evidenced by the things He made (creation). This same GOD made possible the redemption of all men through Jesus Christ, a person who offered himself as a propitiation to GOD for the sins of mankind, which is why Jesus Christ is the central focus of scripture.
The reason Diocletian had the Alexandrian library burned to the ground is because it contained overwhelming secular evidence of Jesus Christ. The Bible has remained undestroyed through the centuries by Divine purpose.
I think it may also prove helpful to some of the viewers here to try to evaluate many of the more strident claims of the anti-theist critique ("brights") from a ideological/ metaphysics perspective. Check out the recent article by Jackson Lears in the May 16, 2011 issue of the The Nation entitled "Same Old New Atheism" .The article offers a compelling analysis of Sam Harris' works. Consideration is given to general atheistic social perspectives
Josephus wasn't even an eyewitness, he was born around 34 AD, several years after the execution of Christ. Josephus's writings stating that Jesus was "A doer of wonderful miracles," was only taking the word of people who were alive when Jesus was. Get your facts right.
@MarioFansUnite Most scholars who have studied Josephus doubt Josephus wrote ALL of the TF. A few lines came from a later Christian scribe which are "interpolations". Most of the passage was written by Josephus himself and was more netural about Jesus that what we read today. Josephus may have written "if it be lawful to call him a man" to make fun of Christians. Most accept that Josephus did indeed report that Jesus was executed by Pontius Pilate as does Tacitus in anti Christian words.
Yes. And there was never any cross used to kill people either. They would never make crosses and staple people to them, it never happened. The cross is from the Greek God Tannus. The whole thing is a bloody lie.
@GawdOfThunder wwwdotjosephusdotorg refutes the claim by JUST A FEW athiests that the TF is a complete forgery and the shorter James passage also is a forgery. Almost ALL scholars and historians who have studied Josephus find the TF to be part interpolation but mostly from Josephus and find NO reason to throw out the shorter James passage. Things may change someday but right now most experts find Josephus writing about the Jesus of the gospels and confirming his execution by Pilate.
@boblackey1 Are there any first hand writings about Jesus by eye witnesses? There has to be first hand, eye witness writings about all his miracles.... right?
@GawdOfThunder According to many skeptical scholars, the oldest layer of the gospels and their source; the sayings gospel or "Q", Jesus wasn't virgin born and didn't claim to be the son of God or divine. In Galatians which as a Pauline letter that even the most critcial and skeptical scholars ACCEPT as written by Paul, Paul says he went to Jerusalem and met with only Peter and The Lord's brother James. So they would have seen any mircales if they happened but it was before Paul met them.
@GawdOfThunder Interestingly though, Paul NEVER mentions the virgin birth in Galatains or ANY of his genuine letters (some of his letters such as 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus are considered by most skeptical scholars to be forgeries) and the fact that Paul never mentions the virgin birth indicates that Jesus own brother James didn't tell Paul about something that amazing or James didn't know about it or he did tell Paul and Paul didn't find that to be anything worth mentioning which would be odd.
@boblackey1 So there were no eye witness accounts of Jesus or any miracles? I wonder if most christians realize that? It really sounds like his story was simply built up over time until it hit critical mass and started having a life of it's own. Makes you wonder if that was the early christian's plan or simply by-product of exaggerated stories.
@GawdOfThunder Well most Christians insist that skeptical/agnostic scholars and historians are wrong about the gospels NOT being written by eyewitness authors. The best the skeptical scholars can come up with is an ancient layer of the gospels that involved Jesus as a Jewish teacher and Q and Paul meeting Peter, John and Jesus brother James (men who knew, saw and heard Jesus) but Paul never mentions the virgin birth! Did they not tell Paul about that? Or did Paul think it was not important?
This where god commands child sacrifice and Jephthah's kills and burns his own daughter. It‘s very very bloody. Plz read it. Your god is so evil and a jerk.
No one knows who wrote the Bible. It was NOT Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Jesus Paul or Moses. Outside the bible there is no evidence for any miracles, eye witness or for anything in the bible at the time of Jesus. Jesus is a Myth. No part of the Christ story is original; it was all plagiarized from previous gods.
@itsasin1969 The Talmudic writings also DO mention Yeshua and his "sorcery" which would have been his "miracles" and his crucifixion. There are also a VAST many Roman historians who corroborate his life and crucifixion, and some even his "works"...whether you believe he IS who he said was...that's a different argument altogether...but HISTORICAL evidence is COMPLETELY OVERWHELMING..he was certainly no myth...
The Talmudic writings were written 200 to 500 ce Please provide any contemporary evidence. (there is none) At the very best Jesus was a real person, one of many so called saviors that were written about at the time. Plz view the time line as the stories come in over the decades. They get more grandiose with time as do other myths. Your faith is a joke.
Plz provide me evidence to the contrary because I care more the truth than I do about being right.
@itsasin1969 It is good to here you care for the truth. I hope you find it what you are looking for. Have you empathetically read the gospels, to hear Jesus teachings? You cant say he is not real without doing so. I assume you have'nt because you said Jesus was plagerized from other gods, but he is the most unique man that ever lived. This all took place in Jerusalem, the center of Jewish worship. There is no type of greek or roman god in him, but rather he was the long awaited Jewish Messiah.
@b1foschiefs Yes I have. Actually I am a minister’s son, born and raised in the church. If you read the bible cover to cover, you can make a very good argument the god is the evil one and Satan is the good one. Satan only kills two people on the command of god, stands up to god,(rebel) and GIVES MAN KNOLLAGE! Satan is my kind of of guy. But it’s all bronze age crap and Jesus is a jerk. Why do you believe it?
@itsasin1969 Well if you are a ministers son than I would think you had your facts right. Dont know what happened with your personal experience, but there is nothing in the bible that would portray Jesus as a jerk! You're just being antagonistic, but what that is rooted in only you know. I dont just believe, I know Jesus and have found him to be the most lovely person I could know. Faith isnt a belief in whether the bible is true,it is a heartfelt knowledge of God,as though believing were seeing
I have always found that it is the Christian who t has the facts wrong. That is why they still have faith. Matthew 10:34 Jesus says he comes not in peace but with a sword to divide families and condemns most all hell. Luke 12:51. 19:27 Jesus says, But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"Matthew 21:18-19; 20-22 and Mark 11:12-14; 20-25. Jesus cursed and killed fig tree for not producing fruit out of season . look it up.
Judges 11:29-40 God loves to burn little girls. Gen 19:4-8 Lot (who God calls righteous) offers his virgin daughters up to be raped. Later he gets drunk and gets his own daughters pregnant. AMOS 1:13 God says it’s ok to rip out babies from the womb.2 Kings 2:23-24: 42”little ones” children are killed by two bears, for calling a proph " baldy" Exodus 13:2. Isaiah 13kill all the little kids. Hosea 13. God says to rip open all the women’s womb and kill all unborn babies
Leviticus 25:44-46 who makes a good slave. Exodus how to beat your slave. Ephesians Be a good slave. Deuteronomy 20 10-14. Exodus 21:7-11,13. Colossians 3:22-25 , 1 Timothy 6:1-5. 12:41-48. Titus 2:9-10,15 1 Peter 2:18-20. 6:5. Slaves obey
Psalm 137:9 >>babies are smite against rocks, Numbers 16:16-49: Death to all those who complain (14,950 of them altogether) Num 21:3 / 21:35. 2 Samuel 6:6-11: ,12:11-14. God kills someone for accidentally touching the Ark of the Covenant. What a jerk! Num 15:32/6. Judges :1-8, 21:10-24
GOD LOVE TO KILL PART 2, Deuteronomy 13:6-9 ,13:13-19. 7:16- 22:13-21. 24,20:10-14 Genesis 6:5. Josh 6:21,8:22-26,10:10_13, 11:11,11:21. Exodus 12:30 . 31:15. 35:2. 2 Kings 8:12. 1Kings 20:30: God makes a wall fall and kill 27 000 of an army retreating from some Israelites . Zephaniah 1:7:18, 1:2-6. Jeremiah 50:21-22. Leviticus 10:1 >10:2. 20:920:13. . 24:16. 27:28-29. Isaiah 13. At min god kills 25 mil , plus countless children and innocent unborn. LUKE 12:51.
Matthew 27:51-53 ZOMBIES. Deuteronomy 23:1, 1 Samuel 6:1-15,18:25-27, Exodus 4:24-25,34:26. Lev.15: 19-24. 19:27. 20:15. 21:20 ,. 1 Corinthians 14. 1Timothy 2 .MARK 16: 18 handle poisonous snakes. Read your bible cover to cover and don’t let yourself be diverted by what you wish to believe, but look only and clearly at the facts. Your faith is a joke.
@itsasin1969 I have read cover to cover. I am a baptist minister and I am well aware of evidence for and against scriptures integrity. A common misunderstanding among unbelievers is that they think we believe without sufficient evidence, logic or personal experience. I dont believe in a "system of beliefs," I believe in Jesus. I will pray that your eyes be opened regarding the above comments. The reason I talked to you was because you said you were open to the truth. It is clear you're not.
@b1foschiefs • The bible defames the whole concept of a god, locking him into an evil cartoonish bronzed-age emotional jerk. Any God that can be killed should be killed and by trying to keep the same beliefs as our ancestors, fundamentalism will force us to betray the very heart of what you seek from Christianity, the quest to know and serve a God who is love and truth. If you are a Baptist pastor, you lie for a living and I think you know it.
@itsasin1969 Do you think I have never heard this?My faith is that feeble?I would die for my faith right now,as have many for the last 2000 years.Have you ever read a fairytale?Does it have the detail of the bible?This is the main fact that led CS Lewis to become a believer.The bible was written as a historic book,archoeology proves it,and men died for it.2Pe 1:16
I would encourage you to really think about the so called “Sacrifice” Where god sacrificed himself to himself to make himself forgive us for something he set up himself. People have suffered far more than Christ did. Look at the holocaust, cancer and so on. None of these people got to be raised from the dead to live as a god in paradise. Who cares if it was gods only son, if you are god, you can make all the people you want. Again, more proof that your faith is a joke, your religin a surge.
@itsasin1969 YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH JESUS, GOD SUFFERED. HE SUFFERED WITH THE WEIGHT OF NOT ONLY YOUR FOUL MOUTH, BUT FOR ALL SIN HE TOOK SIN UPON HIMSELF FOR YOU, AND ALL. U CAN BE FREE OR U CAN CHOOSE THE DEVIL, BUT IN THE END(COMING SOON), YOU WILL GNASH YOUR TEETH, UNLESS YOU LOOK INTO YOUR HEART, AND SEE WHAT A MISERABLE SINNER WE ALL ARE.IF YOU THINK IT'S BAD HERE, WAIT UNTIL YOU SEE THE PUNISHMENT. (AND I PRAY THAT YOU DON'T). GOD IS HOLY. THIS EARTH ISCHOOSING PLACE GOOD OR EVIL?
You were not there when the bible was written, and we don’t believe it. So looking only at the facts, we can only determine you are a delusional fool that would believe anything.
@itsasin1969 God would not ask me to. Your question is off based. I know where you are going but Isaac was a type of Christ, Abraham proceded because he had faith God would raise Him from the dead. God provided a sacrifice in the thicket, which He did when He sent His only begotten Son. It is a story of grace and you turn it into evil to your own shame! I did not get on here to argue. You said you were open to the truth, but you have just been antagonistic. It is clear your mind is set
@b1foschiefs “God would not ask me to. Your question is off based.” Really? God did so several times in the bible, and sometimes it was carried out? (the evil jerk) So would you? The only reason I have an opinion on this is because I have been down that road, and I know what I’m talking about. Again, every time you lose and augment you move the goal post. It is because god if false and you have no argument.
@itsasin1969 God did so several times in the bible, and sometimes it was carried out? Your making things up, this never happened. I wasnt trying to win an arguement, you were obviously! I hope it makes you feel better. I am done talking to you.
@b1foschiefs Have you ever preached to kids that if they don’t believe in your brand of hell fire that they would burn forever and their non believing friends would also? Then you abuse children.
Do you ever preach science from the pulpit? Then you lie and do harm by encouraging ignorance.
@itsasin1969 SATAN IS THE ACCUSER AND HIS CHILDREN ALSO ACCUSE...ALL MEN (AND WOMEN) ARE VILE SINNERS, THAT INCLUDES ME AND YOU. ASK YOURSELF THIS...WHY DO YOU THINKL JESUS, GOD HIMSELF BECAME A MAN WHO WAS WITHOUT SIN, TO SACRIFICE HIMSELF FOR YOU, ME AND ALL MEN.
SOP ACCUSING AND LEAN NOT TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING...GO KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING. WE ALL ARE TOO STUPID TO SECOND GUESS HIM.
@b1foschiefs This where god commands child sacrifice and Jephthah's kills and burns his own daughter. It‘s very very bloody. Plz read it. Your god is so evil and a jerk.
@itsasin1969 TOO BAD YOU DON'T KNOW GOD. TOO TOO BAD. HE AS A MAN DIED FOR YOU. WHY DO YOU THINK HE DID? IS HE A JERK TO DO IT FOR YOU? HE CAME TO GET US OFF THIS EVIL PLANET. WAKE UP, AND READ THE WHOLE BOOK, BEFORE YOU ACCUSE A GOOD GOD, WHO LOVES EVEN ME AND YOU. WE GET OLD TOO SOON, AND SMART TOO LATE UNFORTUNATELY. THINK, THINK...AWAKEN THYSELF TO THE TRICKERY OF THE DEVIL. DEVIL WANTS YOUR SOUL TO TORMENT GOD WANTS TO CLEAN YOUR SOUL AND TO BE FREE. WAKE UP AND SLEEP NO MORE.
Notice they don't actually give the correspondence between Pliny and Trajan? That's because it's a virtual dismissal. Sure he existed. Before the giant cult of personality though, outside the Jewish world, no one cared.
Noxshus 1 month ago
@megamind0001 - Saint Peter never existed. He is a lampoon of Simon the Zealot in the Jewish War by Josephus. It's what we call fictional writings, it's not that difficult to get your head around.
Franknarfable 1 month ago
Here's the problem. NONE of the historians had anything to go on other than what Christians told them orally. Tacitus, if you bother to read him for yourself, even mentions he was simply relaying what Christians told him.
TheThunderduck 4 months ago
Flavius wasn't contemporary with "Jesus" anyway, he was born 3 years after "Jesus" supposedly died.. And Tacitus simply told of followers of a chrestos, there were many of those back then. Those two, that's all the christians have other than "The Bible". So if "Jesus" existed, he certainly wasn't an important figure: )
winterstellar 4 months ago
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winterstellar 5 months ago
Never mind 2nd century, what about when Jesus was around? Why is there not a single Greek or Roman (non-bible source) mention of Jesus in the first century? Why is the biblical slaughter of the innocents not recorded elsewhere? why is the resurrection earthquake and "zombies" (Mt 27:51) of the bible not recorded elsewhere?
And even if Josephus *wasn't* a forgery (as many believe), he wasn't an eyewitness, he just says "there was a wise man named Jesus."
paulinator61 5 months ago
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Where in the bible did Jesus claim to be god?
Where in the bible did Jesus ask to be worshipped?
Where did Jesus say I am God Manifested in flesh?
Where did Jesus mention the original sin?
Where did Jesus say I am the God the Son?
Where did Jesus say that I am God the Word?
Where did Jesus say I am the Second God in Trinity
There is is only one God,Allah,who alone is worthy of being worshipped
I bear witness that there is only one God and Muhammad is the last Prophet
mirzanajib 5 months ago
the passage quoted is considered a 4th century forgery inserted into Josephus' original text, as it doesn't make sense in the context of the chapter, nor does it make sense for Josephus to use the word Gentile, a word that emerges after the writing of his works.
alexicoff 5 months ago
@alexicoff - I thought the Testimonium Flavainum was generally considered to be genuine. Joe Atwill gives a unique and thorough explanation of it - google - Atwill on TF.
This is basically saying that yes, it is genuine, but Jesus still never existed and here's why.
Franknarfable 5 months ago
This obvious biased and faith as proof claimer in this video makes strong claims and presents no proof. NEXT!
1spiritualalchemy1 5 months ago
Regardless of whether he existed or not, the laws of physics were the same back then so no miracles could happen then either. Forget the ancient tales now, will you? Jeez. : )
winterstellar 5 months ago
@winterstellar We have accounts of 100s of people witnessing miracles in the New Testament. That is evidence to say that they happened. Of course the law of physics is still the same and always will be, but that is how something is defined as a miracle, it goes beyond physics and does what is considered to be 'impossible'. Why would 100s of people accounted in the New Testament be lying about what they saw? Mark 6:30-44.
misspiccola11 5 months ago
@misspiccola11 The New Testament is all fairy-tale.
winterstellar 5 months ago
@winterstellar And where is your proof that the New Testament is all fairy-tale?
misspiccola11 4 months ago
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winterstellar 4 months ago
@misspiccola11 - The gospels are satire based on the Roman-Jewish war. That's how we know it's all a "fairy-tale".
Franknarfable 4 months ago
Is there an unbiased version of this?
hanspeterpitsch 5 months ago
Jesus is mentioned only twice in Josephus and it is generally believed among scholars that the passages are counterfeit.
MrArokOleary 6 months ago
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Q: Lo! Those who disbelieve among the people of Scripture and idilaters will abide in the Fire Hell.They are worst of created beings,And Lo! Those who believe and do good works are the best of created beings.Their reaward is with their Lord;Garden of Eden underneath with river flow,wherein the dwell forever.Allah is pleased with them and they are please with Him.This is(In store) for him who fears his Lord,
I bear witness there Is Only One God and Muhammad PBUH is the Last Prophet
mirzanajib 6 months ago
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The early Christians beliefs that Jesus was not Crucified,truth of Quran become clear= QR: But they killed him not but so it was made to apear to them,and those who differ therein are full of doubt,with no certain knowledge,but only conjecture to follow.for a surety they killed him not
Mark 7:8 you leave the commandement of God,and hold fast the tradation of men Corinthains 15:15 becoz we testified of God that he RAISED CHRIST whom he did not raise if it true that the dead are not raised
mirzanajib 6 months ago
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mirzanajib 6 months ago
@24Crede24 Seems pompous think humans are better than other animals. Your god sends 10 plagues killing innocent kids and livestock and giant flood that kills everyone. (Although we know these stories are fake we're talking about an imaginary thing so it's always fun playing the what-if game)
MugiwaraJr 7 months ago
@MugiwaraJr totally agree
smileyraw 6 months ago
@24Crede24 Your god and Hitler were so much alike but, they each produced there sheep so it's whatever.
MugiwaraJr 7 months ago
I WOULD LIKE TOO SEE THE EXACT HEBREW TRANSLATION...BET IT'S DIFFERENT...
siannarino 7 months ago
How surprising that the Bible says that in the last days will come scoffers, unbelievers who have turned against God. And He, God, will harden their hearts and allow their eyes and ears to be closed to the TRUTH!!! All of those who claim that Jesus is not the Son of God are actually giving validation to the Bible's verses that show He foretold of your unbelief....DONT become one of the many that will be lost because of TOTAL rejection of Jesus and God's judgement in these final days!!!
lhmccracken 7 months ago
@lhmccracken Is that the same god who killed babies, innocent people, animals, is a dead beat dad, abuses power, and envious among his other wonderful traits? Well sign me up for the conversion. (sarcasm)
MugiwaraJr 7 months ago
@lhmccracken omg I can't even begin to explain the stupidity in what you just wrote.
smileyraw 6 months ago
@smileyraw Actually my reference for God 'blinding their eyes and closing their ears was taken from John 12-because even when people see miracles they still refuse to believe-and God allows their hearts to harden towards Him-so I guess the 'stupidity' as you call it makes reference to the Bible itself -And since so many deny His existence or want God out of our lives, don't blame Him for the tragedies in our world today since it takes faith in Him to get protection from Him...
lhmccracken 6 months ago
@lhmccracken God 'blinding their eyes and closing their ears was taken from John 12-"
First of all, God and Christianity aren't bound hip to hip. It's the same creator for everyone, and one can not be a christian but still believe in God. And secondly, internal evidence shows that the writer of the John gospel wasn't John the apostle. That and the fact that the John gospel was written some 60-80 years after the fact. Thata makes him one who is simply passing along hearsay.
Matthew1944 6 months ago
1- A currently story circulating on YT about Leviticus 11:6. It says that the hare is a ruminant. Obviously, the whole world will say that The Bible is stupid and it can not be The Word of God. So, I did some research and discovered that, indeed, the hare is a ruminant!
The biblical scribes ''knew'' that the hare was not a ruminant! But since they can not remove any words from the Word of God, they always left it.
liduq 7 months ago
2- There is indeed a biological element in hares that is apparented to ruminants. So the MAF considers the hare as a ruminant!
''The Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry of New Zealand, ref. Review of Ruminant Protein Regulations''
To me it's another evidence that the Bible is the Word of God! He announced the coming of The Messiah and that Jesus is the Messiah!
liduq 7 months ago
People of ALL religious faiths seem to fall into this category. They ALL claim to be right, they ALL claim to be able to prove it, they ALL claim to have superior powers of interpretation of religious script, they ALL claim that all other interpretations, theories and faiths are false, they ALL claim to follow the only true faith, they ALL claim to have been saved by a God. All religious devotees are as daft as each other, as they can't even agree amongst themselves..talk about deluded.......
aliveandkicking57 7 months ago
jesus here
drastaify 7 months ago
I wonder what's the problem? Before Christ, there have been many great historical figures such as Pharaohs, great Scientists (Plato, Aristotle, Archimedes etc) Astronomers (Ptolemy, Aristarchus of Samos, Hipparchus) and many others. Everyone believe in those figures without problems, but when it comes to Jesus, people believe that He is only an invention.
It makes no sense. People are blind.
liduq 7 months ago
@liduq Maybe for them , Jesus is just too good to be true... He said things, claimed things that would make an ordinary person look like a poached egg... So, I think, they're just trying to dismiss Him from their minds and the best way for a person to avoid Him is to deny or ignore Historical facts about Jesus...
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner : Yes, it's true. And they take us for poor naive who believes in fairy tales. I wish that Jesus show himself to them.
God bless you!
liduq 7 months ago
@liduq shut the fuck up
drastaify 7 months ago
@drastaify : Beautiful education! I'm impress...
liduq 7 months ago
@liduq Thanks. For skeptics no evidence would suffice and most of the time they are slaves to their prejudices.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@liduq I believe the problem is that jesus was an extraordinary person according to the bible. He apparently turned wine into water, healed the blind, walked on water and performed other miracles like that. And with extraordinary claims like that, extraordinary evidence is needed. I'm pretty sure a person named jesus that preached love and peace may have existed, and that the bible may have been based on him, but I do not believe that he was born of a virgin, or the son of a god.
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 Mary herself doubted too if she was really pregnant by the Spirit. Or if whom she really bore was God's begotten. Friend you're not the first one to have doubts on that.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner Then mary is probably smarter than some christians who believe the bible word for word.
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 the wonderful thing about Mary's query is that it lead her to say Yes to God and that she is God's faithful servant. Yes she is smarter than some Christians and braver too; some Christians hide away when God gives them a task. :)
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 She did not merely believe but SAW the ultimate proof of God's unfailing love; no matter how scary or unbelievable it might had been for her
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 God gives room for doubt. And I'm happy about it.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner Yeah me too.
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 : ''...extraordinary evidence is needed.''
Third, He born and accomplished all that was written about him in the Bible. Fourth, He was tortured, crusified and His death was horrible. Why a man would suffer like this, just for fun to convince everyone that He is the Son of God?
The NT, is His Word, His testimony, The testimony of those who have known Him and Those who experienced Him after His death.
liduq 7 months ago
@liduq The problem is that the bible is just 1 book. It is insufficient to convince me that he actually performed those miracles that he supposedly did in the bible. I haven't really gone all out and searched everywhere for these testimonies, but what I have found so far has led me to the conclusion that there is insufficient evidence to believe in the miracles the bible claims. Although there were already historians in the time of jesus, there's no document that mentions him except the bible
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 The Bible is ONE book: coherent, no-self-contradiction. It is a compilation of books that took 1500 years to be written and compiled with 44 or more authors all pointing to Christ: to this Galilean, a carpenter's son, ugly, no prominence, looked-down on, despised, thought of as delusional even by His own mother, hated by His siblings, hanged like a Criminal even His disciples betrayed Him. Given all these what "respected" Historian in Jesus' lifetime would write of an outcast?
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner The bible is riddled with contradictions. A brief search on google will tell you as much. Also, talking snakes, woman being formed from man's ribs, and a huge worldwide flood is far from coherent. Given that jesus performed so many crazy stuff like walk on water, heal the blind, turn water into wine, it is absurd to think that historians will not record such extraordinary occurences. Also there were no writings about or from the 500 ppl that witnessed his ressurection
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 : ''The bible is riddled with contradictions.''
No no no... Now you have to show where in Bible are these contradictions. You can't talk about hearsay.
I am asking you where are these contradictions in the Bible please?
liduq 7 months ago
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@liduq An example:
II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
GAL 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
GAL 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?
MAT 27:28 scarlet
JOH 19:2 purple
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 Sir you have to do better than quote from google or wikileaks. Read solid stuff. Not riddle-ridden contradicting suspicious fictitious documents.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner Read a little down. The lines I gave seem pretty darn like contradictions to me. Also, there are many former christians that have intensively studied the bible, and have come up with the conclusion that it is full of contradictions, and overall is utter bull. The god in the bible is also immoral, at least imo, and this opinion is shared by many others.
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 Don't base evidences on opinions. To say God is immoral is a deep subject to be touched by those who knows God, not by those who deviated from this.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner What iam saying is that the god depicted in the bible is immoral. I do not know if the bible gives an accurate representation of such a god, but the one depicted in the bible is obviously immoral imho
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 I would like to continue my statement, people who attack Christianity KNOWS what they dealt with: Nietzsche was a Pastor's son, Stalin a former Seminarian, Marx and Engels were both former Christians. What they have in common? It's not the lack of knowledge of the scriptures but their TOTAL commitment to destroy it. So it's rebellion. Atheists say they do not believe in God. I am a former Atheist. At the back of their minds, they know Him but they just reject Him.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 To find out whether God is immoral or whether Jesus existed, or whether he existed but religious beliefs around him are a sham, you've got to get out of your prejudices and have one-on-one contact with this God. As Flannery O'Connor says: "All human nature vigorously resists grace because grace changes us and change is painful." To welcome the challenge of knowing God if He is real or not requires tons of faith.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner I live in Singapore, a massively secular country with 4 or more religions coexisting perfectly side by side. I was brought up to not have any prejudices towards any other religion, although I was brought up in Buddhism. I have christian friends, Islamic friends, Buddhist friends and hindu friends. There was a point in time where I considered turning to Christianity, but after doing a bit of studying, I found all religions absurd, and became an atheist.
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 To say God is immoral, why would Jesus give a margin of error for believers? It takes time to believe in Him. And he designed it this way. I was frustrated too. Because why didn't Jesus left pamphlets or annals, or anything? The answer is simple. Proofs of miracles did not sink in but gather oohs and aahhs from spectators, not genuine faith or repentance. He allows us to question Him because in this way, we can TALK to him w/o fear.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 It's okay to find religions absurd or any ideologies absurd. One can't be religious over night because it's your choice. It took me 8 years of Atheism before I found out that all along Jesus had been looking for me like a Shepherd looking for a missing ewe. God let's this things happen, to my surprise actually. If you want, I suggest you find a book by C.S Lewis "Surprised By Joy". And Ravi Zacharias' "Has Christianity Failed You?". Both authors are former Atheists.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner Can I ask? What did it take to turn to christianity? I'm not asking this in a hostile or rude way or anything. I'm just curious how you came to the conclusion that there is a god, and that the bible is all true
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 Former Christians rely on seasoned attacks of Atheists and Agnostics against religion. So the so-called former christians are nothing new. Though, I doubt whether they truly believe what they are believing now.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner Not always true. Some atheists indeed attack christianity without any knowledge of the religion. However, not all atheists are like that. An example is Matt Dillahunty, who used to be a Christian fundamentalist studying to be a minister. His intensive study of the bible led him to denounce his faith after serious consideration. He now hosts the atheist experience. Also, the verses I quoted. Please tell me if I,m wrong. I really want to know if I made a mistake.
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 I don't know the life story of Dillahunty but he man you mentioned reminds me of Stalin. He was once a man of God; he even made small apologetics on God. But he turned away from his calling and one can understand why: Russia was under turmoil. And in a world like this, w/o faith, it's impossible to live by. So he became an atheist. All the evidences he once proved, he personally destroyed. The last dying act of Stalin was he was on his deathbed raising a fist to heaven.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner What has Stalin got to do with Matt Dillahunty? I can assure you he is not a communist dictator, nor did he reject god only because his world is under turmoil. He rejected his faith because his studies led him to the conclusion that all this was absurd. I'm sorry if I seem a little harsh, but it looks as if you are trying to equivocate him to Stalin.
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 Stalin studied the scriptures too. Only he did not find this plausible in the real world that he lived. Conclusions made by Dillahunty or even Hitchens are born from this: the implausibility of faith.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 I know not all atheists become dictators. But they have the same thread. As I had once have that thread.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner You are completely over-generalizing. You look at a few atheists in the past, or even at yourself, and you see some are bad people, some are dictators. Then you draw the conclusion that all atheists are dictators, and their only goal is to take down christianity. This is not true at all. I am completely fine with christians as people, only that I find them a little silly. The fact that Matt turned away from christianity showed that he found something wrong with the religion.
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 As I have said, it's your choice. But beware of what they trumpet out loud. The effects they have on the academe, politics, even religion. Now in America, there are groups proposing Atheism to become a religion. Religion literally meant "to be tied to" - God. Atheism literally means "No God" from A- negative and Theos- God. It's negative-god or No God. If it becomes religion to whom are they tying themselves with, when Atheism means there's no God?
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 I did not say all atheists are dictators. I say their ideology has direct influence on unguarded peoples or societies.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner What exactly are atheist's ideology? Atheism is not a religion, not a world view, not a dogma of any sorts. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god. Atheism is unlikely to impact anything at all. It is just a singular lack of belief in a deity. In response to those people trying to make atheism into a religion, that is absurd. They are probably anti-theist, people who are completely certain there is no god.
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 When we no longer see the 'tunnel vision', that's when one turns to Christ. That's why he proclaimed the beatitudes. But of course this would not suffice to a skeptic. It requires just yourself. Atheism is not simply lack of belief. Atheism is the 'ideal' for some like Dawkins and Sam Harris; they have de-baptizing services in America where one can renounce his/her faith freely; hence, ideology.
Though I really wish Atheism has no impact, but it has one.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner Indeed, some atheists carry out actions seemingly attributed to atheism. However, it is more likely that these actions are instead caused by their outright distaste, disapproval or even hatred for religion. One can be an atheist and not dislike religion. To bring up Dawkin's and Harris' actions and attributing it to atheism is post hoc ergo propter hoc.
wengsiang1 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 I cannot quote all the things Dawkins said but this is his view of God or religion: that God is a homophobic, an infanticidal, sexist, etc... To which Ravi Zacharias retorted: "I don't know if I am confused or he (Dawkins) is... But if there is no God, then who did all those things (Dawkins' quote on God)?! Why are you so big on Humanity and so small on God when Humanity manufactured the God that you deny?".
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 R.Zacharias says: we cannot judge a worldview by it's abuse but by what it asserts. Thru out this debate I have been careful not to "blame it all on" Atheism. But I have been open to what Atheism ASSERTS and the effects its assertion has on humanity. I respect Dawkins. Like Nietzsche, he was painfully honest about the human condition. However, anyone who has listened to Dawkins, Hitchens (BTW Hitchens is now a Christian after being diagnosed with Cancer), Harris and Flew, (1)
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner "BTW Hitchens is now a Christian after being diagnosed with Cancer" Source?
jacobrecker 7 months ago
@jacobrecker Dr. Collins is helping him in that department. His bro, Peter is hopeful, at least Christopher is now making up his mind. :)
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 (con't.) HAVE ALSO HEARD their scathing attacks AND hatred on religion ESPECIALLY Christianity. Dawkins, Flew (who also a late comer to Christ), Harris, and Hitchens (now a Christian) have played the "Blame Game" quite well.... I've never seen Christian Apologists like Dr. R. Zacharias, Prof. John Lennox, Michael Madsen, Philip Yancey, et.al. DO the blame game.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 BTW, before I stop this conversation (need to do my lesson plan), I'd like to say it's really nice to talk to someone as "deep" as you. I hope we can be friends on YT; "We can have our disagreements but we don't have to be disagreeable" (R.Zacharias); if you want to reply, just send me a message or post a comment, thnx.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner Lol sure. Though I can't say i like being called 'deep' :P
wengsiang1 7 months ago
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liduq 7 months ago
@wengsiang1 : ''The problem... the bible is just 1 book. It is insufficient''
(Tacitus) among the first historians of antiquity in terms of accuracy and fairness of trial. In ''Chronicles 15'' pargraph 44 ''...Christ, which, under Tiberius, was handed the punishment by the procurator...''
Also other great people who talk in writtings considered to be part of history. (Suetonius, Pliny the Young, Senaca and Juvenal, Lucian, Celsus) And many more...
liduq 7 months ago
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@wengsiang1 : ''The problem... bible is just 1 book. It is insufficient''
In fact, you're wrong. :)
The Jewish historian of antiquity, Flavius Josephus almost contemporary of Jesus. (37-100) quotes Jesus in his books ''Jewish Antiquities'' and ''The Jewish War''. He speaks of Jesus. He even noted the stoning of ''James, brother of Jesus called Christ''
Jesus's also mentioned in the Talmud. Surprising but true. But not in flattering terms,as expected from Jews since they dont like Him.
liduq 7 months ago
@wengsiang1: ''...extraordinary evidence is needed.''
Yes I know, but when someone refutes even the existence of Jesus, and we, knowing that He exists, one is obliged to seek and give evidence, which in any case people will refutes.
First, the Bible is a translation of the Torah, Second, throughout the Bible, Jesus is announced.
liduq 7 months ago
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liduq 7 months ago
Proof of Jesus? Nonsense. Nothing in this video constitutes proof of Jesus, son of 'god'. What a pathetic bunch Christian scholars are, claiming proof of Jesus, and by extension proof of the Christian god. They have zero evidence of this savior, let alone 'proof'. And they will find none, ever. It doesn't exist.
Here's a tip Mr LaneCh: facts and arguments that survive scientific scrutiny or stand in a court of law -that is what constitutes 'evidence'. And 'proof' is even more demanding
gangster3591 8 months ago
@gangster3591
patriotsfan1379 8 months ago
A few points Mr patriotsfan:
1 An historical Jesus may have existed (a wandering rabbi named Jesus) or even several such peripatetic savant-types.
2 No proof of such a person exists
3 No evidence (let alone proof) of a 'son of god' has been offered, ever, that could meet scientific/ legal standards. Certainly not in the video you referenced
4 Believers prefer to use self-serving definitions of evidence and proof
5 Existence of the Abrahamic god has vanishing probability
gangster3591 8 months ago
@gangster3591 don't nobody have to prove anything i mean who the heck are you gangster hahaha you are the one who has to disprove the existance of GOD you came into this channel debating ovr 2000 yrs people have testified of JESUS and HIS work in their live who are you? but n insignificant fool who after 70 or so yrs no 1 will remmember you but not JESUS thought GANGSTER hahaahahahahha
patriotsfan1379 8 months ago
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@patriotsfan1379 : "don't nobody have to prove anything i mean who the heck are you gangster, insignificant fool hahaha"?
You're quite a dazzling wit Mr Patriotsfan. I'm not surprised you missed the point: a burden of evidence/proof lies with those who assert truth, not with those who reject assertions in the absence of evidence. It's a principle of logic that requires some education/intelligence for understanding, a level greater than what you appear to have
gangster3591 8 months ago
I have found no evidence over many years that would substantiate your claims. Why do Christians make things up? Because anything they claim is non existent or so weak it could hardly be taken with any substance. If The Bible is as true and powerful as you claim, why do we not see the works of the love of Christ evident today? They fail on every hand and the modern day Christian Church is weak, full of hate and deceit. They have forgotten their commission and lost their compassion!
ktorch 8 months ago
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liduq 7 months ago
@liduq If born in Salt Lake City, I would most likely be a Mormon. If born in an Islamic Country, I'd probably pray to Mohammed. Most people born in a Christian society (as you were) follow the Bible. Conclusion: Religious perspective, is based ONLY on geographical location!! You're merely a product of your environment, and influenced accordingly. If you were born in the Borneo jungles, your concept of religion would be zero. So why read the Bible, and not the Quran or the book of Mormon?
aliveandkicking57 7 months ago
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liduq 7 months ago
@aliveandkicking57 : ''Conclusion: Religious perspective, is based ONLY...''
I have a niece who never believed. But one night she dreamed of Jesus Who told her to wake up, to take her baby and leave the house. It's what she has done. The house was burning. Since then, I can tell you, she believes blindly.
liduq 7 months ago
@aliveandkicking57 : ''Conclusion: Religious perspective, is based ONLY...''
I understand what you say, is it the same for you. You dont believe because...
I think most people at one time or another, end up thinking for themselves. I am not at all the gullible kind, but yet...
I am not from a religious family, but... Strangely, and I dont know why, I have always believed since my earliest childhood, even before starting school. For me it's not even a belief, it's just obvious.
liduq 7 months ago
@liduq Evidences ARE obvious. And this is a huge problem for skeptics. Fyodor Dostoevsky says: "The genuine realist, if he is an unbeliever, will always find strength and ability to disbelieve in the miraculous, and if he is confronted with a miracle as an the irrefutable fact he would rather disbelieve his own senses than admit the fact. Faith does not...spring from the miracle, but the miracle from faith"
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@gatsbyfaulkner : Yes my friend, you're right. And you send a good quote from F. Dostoevsky!
For most of these skeptics, they never read the Bible.
From skeptics, saying that no other book speaks about Jesus is quite reaveling of not wanting to know... :)
God bless you!
liduq 7 months ago
@liduq Bless you too.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
Respond to this video... Given the infinite amount of theorising and speculation (and I use the words advisedly) currently on the internet,and the ridiculous amount of time it would take to read and contemplate, I would suggest the following: 1. Do something more constructive with your life 2. Practice and believe whatever you want, just keep it to yourself. 3 Leave all conjecture to be resolved by time. We will ALL eventually know the truth...truth comes......... with death
aliveandkicking57 7 months ago
@ktorch First you say that Christians make things up. Then you insist on saying that the Christian Church is full of hate and deceit. Are you not then asking for the Church to be moral? And since you say CHRISTIANS HAVE FORGOTTEN THEIR COMMISSION, it's as if you BELIEVE in what Christians believe: that they have to be perfect for God is perfect. I think your statements got mixed up.
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@ktorch Flannery O' Connor says: All your dissatisfaction with the church seems to me to come from incomplete understanding of sin. What you actually seem to demand is that the church put the Kingdom of heaven on Earth right here now, that the Holy Ghost be translated at once into all flesh... Christ is crucified on earth and the church is crucified in time...The church is founded on Peter who denied Christ tree times and who couldn't walk on water by himself..." (1)
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
@ktorch (con't)... you are expecting his successors to walk on water. All human nature vigorously resists grace because grace changes us and change is painful. Priests resist it as well as others. To have the church be what you wanted it to be would require the continuous miraculous meddling of God in human affairs..."
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
That GOD "is" is evidenced by the things He made (creation). This same GOD made possible the redemption of all men through Jesus Christ, a person who offered himself as a propitiation to GOD for the sins of mankind, which is why Jesus Christ is the central focus of scripture.
The reason Diocletian had the Alexandrian library burned to the ground is because it contained overwhelming secular evidence of Jesus Christ. The Bible has remained undestroyed through the centuries by Divine purpose.
Str8Talker365 8 months ago
@Str8Talker365 : Well said!
liduq 7 months ago
Did Josephus witness the death and resurrection of Jesus?
Xenophile665 8 months ago
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Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 8 months ago
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Hey LaneCh please check out my video its pretty rational! THANKS!!
/watch?v=2Ug4CTd_jEY
nanocalp 8 months ago
YET AGAIN Peter Joseph is proved to be a LIAR with his "Scientific Method" of LYING!
Venus Project is even NAMED after Star of Satan
SHITEGEIST AGAINDUMB is NWO crap claiming to be NON-religious yet PJ got ALL main sources from renowned Satanist authors
IM NOTreligious, JESUS IS NOT RELIGION - He's a HISTORICAL ANTI-BANKER, REVOLUTIONARY MAN!
But ZeitHEIST takes the religion Satanism very seriously! & It wouldnt pay Bankers quest for CONTROL for people to know of a REVOLUTIONARY
IdaSputum 8 months ago
Umm, can you tell me how, with no contemporary accounts of Jesus that we are aware of, how we know he existed? Honest question here.
Rundvelt 8 months ago
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I think it may also prove helpful to some of the viewers here to try to evaluate many of the more strident claims of the anti-theist critique ("brights") from a ideological/ metaphysics perspective. Check out the recent article by Jackson Lears in the May 16, 2011 issue of the The Nation entitled "Same Old New Atheism" .The article offers a compelling analysis of Sam Harris' works. Consideration is given to general atheistic social perspectives
shieldsff 9 months ago
No
leej70 9 months ago
Josephus wasn't even an eyewitness, he was born around 34 AD, several years after the execution of Christ. Josephus's writings stating that Jesus was "A doer of wonderful miracles," was only taking the word of people who were alive when Jesus was. Get your facts right.
MarioFansUnite 9 months ago
@MarioFansUnite Most scholars who have studied Josephus doubt Josephus wrote ALL of the TF. A few lines came from a later Christian scribe which are "interpolations". Most of the passage was written by Josephus himself and was more netural about Jesus that what we read today. Josephus may have written "if it be lawful to call him a man" to make fun of Christians. Most accept that Josephus did indeed report that Jesus was executed by Pontius Pilate as does Tacitus in anti Christian words.
boblackey1 9 months ago
I am a believer. By the way, can anyone tell me what is the name of the music that's being played here? Thks.
cloudxtraining 9 months ago
You believe in invisable men and your asking people if they are mentally ill? Oxymoron. or? just moron.
MrAntireligions 9 months ago
@MrAntireligions Who says any Christian believe in a "invisible" man? Next time, try to use arguments, not ridicule.
thetraceur123 9 months ago
It's a forgery... It is so obvious.
GawdOfThunder 9 months ago
Yes. And there was never any cross used to kill people either. They would never make crosses and staple people to them, it never happened. The cross is from the Greek God Tannus. The whole thing is a bloody lie.
MrAntireligions 9 months ago
@GawdOfThunder wwwdotjosephusdotorg refutes the claim by JUST A FEW athiests that the TF is a complete forgery and the shorter James passage also is a forgery. Almost ALL scholars and historians who have studied Josephus find the TF to be part interpolation but mostly from Josephus and find NO reason to throw out the shorter James passage. Things may change someday but right now most experts find Josephus writing about the Jesus of the gospels and confirming his execution by Pilate.
boblackey1 9 months ago
@boblackey1 Are there any first hand writings about Jesus by eye witnesses? There has to be first hand, eye witness writings about all his miracles.... right?
GawdOfThunder 9 months ago
@GawdOfThunder According to many skeptical scholars, the oldest layer of the gospels and their source; the sayings gospel or "Q", Jesus wasn't virgin born and didn't claim to be the son of God or divine. In Galatians which as a Pauline letter that even the most critcial and skeptical scholars ACCEPT as written by Paul, Paul says he went to Jerusalem and met with only Peter and The Lord's brother James. So they would have seen any mircales if they happened but it was before Paul met them.
boblackey1 8 months ago
@GawdOfThunder Interestingly though, Paul NEVER mentions the virgin birth in Galatains or ANY of his genuine letters (some of his letters such as 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus are considered by most skeptical scholars to be forgeries) and the fact that Paul never mentions the virgin birth indicates that Jesus own brother James didn't tell Paul about something that amazing or James didn't know about it or he did tell Paul and Paul didn't find that to be anything worth mentioning which would be odd.
boblackey1 8 months ago
@boblackey1 So there were no eye witness accounts of Jesus or any miracles? I wonder if most christians realize that? It really sounds like his story was simply built up over time until it hit critical mass and started having a life of it's own. Makes you wonder if that was the early christian's plan or simply by-product of exaggerated stories.
GawdOfThunder 8 months ago
@GawdOfThunder Well most Christians insist that skeptical/agnostic scholars and historians are wrong about the gospels NOT being written by eyewitness authors. The best the skeptical scholars can come up with is an ancient layer of the gospels that involved Jesus as a Jewish teacher and Q and Paul meeting Peter, John and Jesus brother James (men who knew, saw and heard Jesus) but Paul never mentions the virgin birth! Did they not tell Paul about that? Or did Paul think it was not important?
boblackey1 8 months ago
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This where god commands child sacrifice and Jephthah's kills and burns his own daughter. It‘s very very bloody. Plz read it. Your god is so evil and a jerk.
Plz view /watch?v=UuJr0JJAs9Q
itsasin1969 10 months ago
No one knows who wrote the Bible. It was NOT Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Jesus Paul or Moses. Outside the bible there is no evidence for any miracles, eye witness or for anything in the bible at the time of Jesus. Jesus is a Myth. No part of the Christ story is original; it was all plagiarized from previous gods.
itsasin1969 10 months ago 2
@itsasin1969 The Talmudic writings also DO mention Yeshua and his "sorcery" which would have been his "miracles" and his crucifixion. There are also a VAST many Roman historians who corroborate his life and crucifixion, and some even his "works"...whether you believe he IS who he said was...that's a different argument altogether...but HISTORICAL evidence is COMPLETELY OVERWHELMING..he was certainly no myth...
cclarry122700 10 months ago
The Talmudic writings were written 200 to 500 ce Please provide any contemporary evidence. (there is none) At the very best Jesus was a real person, one of many so called saviors that were written about at the time. Plz view the time line as the stories come in over the decades. They get more grandiose with time as do other myths. Your faith is a joke.
Plz provide me evidence to the contrary because I care more the truth than I do about being right.
also, why not allow realtime psts?
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@itsasin1969 It is good to here you care for the truth. I hope you find it what you are looking for. Have you empathetically read the gospels, to hear Jesus teachings? You cant say he is not real without doing so. I assume you have'nt because you said Jesus was plagerized from other gods, but he is the most unique man that ever lived. This all took place in Jerusalem, the center of Jewish worship. There is no type of greek or roman god in him, but rather he was the long awaited Jewish Messiah.
b1foschiefs 10 months ago
@b1foschiefs Yes I have. Actually I am a minister’s son, born and raised in the church. If you read the bible cover to cover, you can make a very good argument the god is the evil one and Satan is the good one. Satan only kills two people on the command of god, stands up to god,(rebel) and GIVES MAN KNOLLAGE! Satan is my kind of of guy. But it’s all bronze age crap and Jesus is a jerk. Why do you believe it?
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@itsasin1969 Well if you are a ministers son than I would think you had your facts right. Dont know what happened with your personal experience, but there is nothing in the bible that would portray Jesus as a jerk! You're just being antagonistic, but what that is rooted in only you know. I dont just believe, I know Jesus and have found him to be the most lovely person I could know. Faith isnt a belief in whether the bible is true,it is a heartfelt knowledge of God,as though believing were seeing
b1foschiefs 10 months ago
I have always found that it is the Christian who t has the facts wrong. That is why they still have faith. Matthew 10:34 Jesus says he comes not in peace but with a sword to divide families and condemns most all hell. Luke 12:51. 19:27 Jesus says, But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"Matthew 21:18-19; 20-22 and Mark 11:12-14; 20-25. Jesus cursed and killed fig tree for not producing fruit out of season . look it up.
itsasin1969 10 months ago
Child Sacrifice
Judges 11:29-40 God loves to burn little girls. Gen 19:4-8 Lot (who God calls righteous) offers his virgin daughters up to be raped. Later he gets drunk and gets his own daughters pregnant. AMOS 1:13 God says it’s ok to rip out babies from the womb.2 Kings 2:23-24: 42”little ones” children are killed by two bears, for calling a proph " baldy" Exodus 13:2. Isaiah 13kill all the little kids. Hosea 13. God says to rip open all the women’s womb and kill all unborn babies
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@b1foschiefs
SLAVERY’S OK WITH GOD.
Leviticus 25:44-46 who makes a good slave. Exodus how to beat your slave. Ephesians Be a good slave. Deuteronomy 20 10-14. Exodus 21:7-11,13. Colossians 3:22-25 , 1 Timothy 6:1-5. 12:41-48. Titus 2:9-10,15 1 Peter 2:18-20. 6:5. Slaves obey
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@b1foschiefs
RAPE
(kill little boys and rape little girls) Numbers 31:7-18 Deuteronomy 2:22-21. 25:19 23-29 Zechariah 14:1-2 Judges 5:30, 21:10-24 rape little girls.
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@b1foschiefs GOD LOVES TO KILL
Psalm 137:9 >>babies are smite against rocks, Numbers 16:16-49: Death to all those who complain (14,950 of them altogether) Num 21:3 / 21:35. 2 Samuel 6:6-11: ,12:11-14. God kills someone for accidentally touching the Ark of the Covenant. What a jerk! Num 15:32/6. Judges :1-8, 21:10-24
itsasin1969 10 months ago
GOD LOVE TO KILL PART 2, Deuteronomy 13:6-9 ,13:13-19. 7:16- 22:13-21. 24,20:10-14 Genesis 6:5. Josh 6:21,8:22-26,10:10_13, 11:11,11:21. Exodus 12:30 . 31:15. 35:2. 2 Kings 8:12. 1Kings 20:30: God makes a wall fall and kill 27 000 of an army retreating from some Israelites . Zephaniah 1:7:18, 1:2-6. Jeremiah 50:21-22. Leviticus 10:1 >10:2. 20:920:13. . 24:16. 27:28-29. Isaiah 13. At min god kills 25 mil , plus countless children and innocent unborn. LUKE 12:51.
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@b1foschiefs OBSURD
Matthew 27:51-53 ZOMBIES. Deuteronomy 23:1, 1 Samuel 6:1-15,18:25-27, Exodus 4:24-25,34:26. Lev.15: 19-24. 19:27. 20:15. 21:20 ,. 1 Corinthians 14. 1Timothy 2 .MARK 16: 18 handle poisonous snakes. Read your bible cover to cover and don’t let yourself be diverted by what you wish to believe, but look only and clearly at the facts. Your faith is a joke.
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@itsasin1969 I have read cover to cover. I am a baptist minister and I am well aware of evidence for and against scriptures integrity. A common misunderstanding among unbelievers is that they think we believe without sufficient evidence, logic or personal experience. I dont believe in a "system of beliefs," I believe in Jesus. I will pray that your eyes be opened regarding the above comments. The reason I talked to you was because you said you were open to the truth. It is clear you're not.
b1foschiefs 10 months ago
@b1foschiefs • The bible defames the whole concept of a god, locking him into an evil cartoonish bronzed-age emotional jerk. Any God that can be killed should be killed and by trying to keep the same beliefs as our ancestors, fundamentalism will force us to betray the very heart of what you seek from Christianity, the quest to know and serve a God who is love and truth. If you are a Baptist pastor, you lie for a living and I think you know it.
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@b1foschiefs I did a quick search , plz view at least this one. /watch?v=oTrQYkxu1zA
The truth will set you free, but 1st it’s gona piss you off.
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@itsasin1969 Do you think I have never heard this?My faith is that feeble?I would die for my faith right now,as have many for the last 2000 years.Have you ever read a fairytale?Does it have the detail of the bible?This is the main fact that led CS Lewis to become a believer.The bible was written as a historic book,archoeology proves it,and men died for it.2Pe 1:16
b1foschiefs 10 months ago
@b1foschiefs
Would you kill you own kid if god told you to?
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@itsasin1969 God killed his own Son for me!
b1foschiefs 10 months ago
I would encourage you to really think about the so called “Sacrifice” Where god sacrificed himself to himself to make himself forgive us for something he set up himself. People have suffered far more than Christ did. Look at the holocaust, cancer and so on. None of these people got to be raised from the dead to live as a god in paradise. Who cares if it was gods only son, if you are god, you can make all the people you want. Again, more proof that your faith is a joke, your religin a surge.
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@itsasin1969 YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH JESUS, GOD SUFFERED. HE SUFFERED WITH THE WEIGHT OF NOT ONLY YOUR FOUL MOUTH, BUT FOR ALL SIN HE TOOK SIN UPON HIMSELF FOR YOU, AND ALL. U CAN BE FREE OR U CAN CHOOSE THE DEVIL, BUT IN THE END(COMING SOON), YOU WILL GNASH YOUR TEETH, UNLESS YOU LOOK INTO YOUR HEART, AND SEE WHAT A MISERABLE SINNER WE ALL ARE.IF YOU THINK IT'S BAD HERE, WAIT UNTIL YOU SEE THE PUNISHMENT. (AND I PRAY THAT YOU DON'T). GOD IS HOLY. THIS EARTH ISCHOOSING PLACE GOOD OR EVIL?
godwithme777 9 months ago
@godwithme777 Empty words for empty heads.
You were not there when the bible was written, and we don’t believe it. So looking only at the facts, we can only determine you are a delusional fool that would believe anything.
itsasin1969 9 months ago
@b1foschiefs
you have not answered one of my questions.
WOULD YOU KILL YOU OWN KID IF GOD TOLD YOU TO?
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@itsasin1969 God would not ask me to. Your question is off based. I know where you are going but Isaac was a type of Christ, Abraham proceded because he had faith God would raise Him from the dead. God provided a sacrifice in the thicket, which He did when He sent His only begotten Son. It is a story of grace and you turn it into evil to your own shame! I did not get on here to argue. You said you were open to the truth, but you have just been antagonistic. It is clear your mind is set
b1foschiefs 10 months ago
@b1foschiefs “God would not ask me to. Your question is off based.” Really? God did so several times in the bible, and sometimes it was carried out? (the evil jerk) So would you? The only reason I have an opinion on this is because I have been down that road, and I know what I’m talking about. Again, every time you lose and augment you move the goal post. It is because god if false and you have no argument.
itsasin1969 10 months ago
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@itsasin1969 God did so several times in the bible, and sometimes it was carried out? Your making things up, this never happened. I wasnt trying to win an arguement, you were obviously! I hope it makes you feel better. I am done talking to you.
b1foschiefs 10 months ago
@b1foschiefs Have you ever preached to kids that if they don’t believe in your brand of hell fire that they would burn forever and their non believing friends would also? Then you abuse children.
Do you ever preach science from the pulpit? Then you lie and do harm by encouraging ignorance.
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@itsasin1969 SATAN IS THE ACCUSER AND HIS CHILDREN ALSO ACCUSE...ALL MEN (AND WOMEN) ARE VILE SINNERS, THAT INCLUDES ME AND YOU. ASK YOURSELF THIS...WHY DO YOU THINKL JESUS, GOD HIMSELF BECAME A MAN WHO WAS WITHOUT SIN, TO SACRIFICE HIMSELF FOR YOU, ME AND ALL MEN.
SOP ACCUSING AND LEAN NOT TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING...GO KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING. WE ALL ARE TOO STUPID TO SECOND GUESS HIM.
godwithme777 9 months ago
@b1foschiefs
Have you ever contributed to a gay teen’s misery, bashing or suicide? When you meet god he will ask you why you persecuted his gay children.
Ever been part of preventing a woman’s access to live saving reproductive medicine? Then you have caused so much pain and suffering.
Ever prevent young people access and information about contraceptives? Then you cause ruined young lives.
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@b1foschiefs This where god commands child sacrifice and Jephthah's kills and burns his own daughter. It‘s very very bloody. Plz read it. Your god is so evil and a jerk.
Plz view /watch?v=UuJr0JJAs9Q
itsasin1969 10 months ago
@itsasin1969 TOO BAD YOU DON'T KNOW GOD. TOO TOO BAD. HE AS A MAN DIED FOR YOU. WHY DO YOU THINK HE DID? IS HE A JERK TO DO IT FOR YOU? HE CAME TO GET US OFF THIS EVIL PLANET. WAKE UP, AND READ THE WHOLE BOOK, BEFORE YOU ACCUSE A GOOD GOD, WHO LOVES EVEN ME AND YOU. WE GET OLD TOO SOON, AND SMART TOO LATE UNFORTUNATELY. THINK, THINK...AWAKEN THYSELF TO THE TRICKERY OF THE DEVIL. DEVIL WANTS YOUR SOUL TO TORMENT GOD WANTS TO CLEAN YOUR SOUL AND TO BE FREE. WAKE UP AND SLEEP NO MORE.
godwithme777 9 months ago
@godwithme777
FYI your caps lock is on...
UTubeKEYGEN 9 months ago