It may have been the one that was located at the JFK Assassination Information Center the curator was Larry Howard who has since passed. They did have a section of the original fence, he was also technical consultant to the film JFK. My sections were obtained on a visit in May 1990.
Back in the early 90's there was a full section of the original fence in the lobby of the assassinations museum downtown. There the owner spoke to us and said it was original. A few weeks later it was reported he died... of a heart attack of course. Sad
The original fence was weathered and falling apart, since it had been there prior to Nov 1963. The city of Dallas had it removed and installed a new fence on Jan 11, 2000.
The Criminals of the C.I.A.-Pentagon are slowly but early enough covering up their Evidence of the Grassy-Knoll Picket Fence. Now, with a New Picket Fence any Oils or Fingerprints from the Original Picket Fence are GONE. But, the Evidence can still be puzzled toghether with the Zupgruber 8mm. Colour Film,We "The House of Assissinations" will still Get the Final Science Evidence,We have a Lot of Forensic and Film Evidence at our desposal. The C.I.A.-Pentagon is NOT laughing yet!!!!
Very cool. Im glad I got a piece/plank of the original fence when I was a teenager. I got it after midnight 8/84 from the vantage point of where a gunman would have had to have been if indeed there was one in 63, which i believe. I was an assassination buff and had to have a piece of that controversial history. I was 14 then and just turned 41. The sections for sale are the real deal because mine matches.
I have no reason to doubt the words of Jack Ruby. That means I believe he killed LHO for the reasons he stated. Ruby was a hothead(his nickname was Sparky due to his quick temper) he was upset according to numerous witnesses all weekend, his presence at the jail was not uncommon. He liked to be where therer was "action". The police knew who he was. Ruby arrived at the jail within seconds of LHO's transfer after walking from the Western Union office. He had his favorite dog in the car. You don't
The road America died on. This country was never the same on the other side of that underpass. President Kennedy's death was a coup d'etat, an overthrow of the government from within. Every piece of physical evidence against Oswald would crumble like a house of cards in any legitmate courtroom today, which is why he was silenced.
To anyone who still believes that LHO was the "lone nut" assassin claimed by the Warren Commission...isn't it just a little bit too much coincidence that this so-called psychotic assassin "just happened" to get a low-paid, low-status job in a building that "just happened" to be on the motorcade route, five weeks before the President's visit...then "just happened" to decide to kill Kennedy on a whim, for no apparent reason whatsoever? Doesn't seem very likely, does it?
@Nuttybott The Zapruder film was not faked nor did Kennedy get shot from the front. The HSCA in 1979 comissioned 9 forensic patholigists to examine the autopsy report, xrays and photos of the president and all of them said there was no medical evidence to support theories of the president being shot from the front or side.
@LoneNutter1 Sorry, but to suggest that the fatal head shot came from anywhere but the front is absurd. The medical "evidence" you cite is widely believed to have been faked or otherwise tampered with afterwards. The Zapruder film shows quite clearly that the final shot came from the front...I have never known anyone who has seen it who thought otherwise. And even the HSCA concluded that Kennedy was "probably assassinated as the result of a conspiracy".
@Nuttybott Oh that's right , I forgot. Silly me. Of course the medical evidence was faked. Whenever there's evidence that incriminates LHO it was either faked, doctored, manufactured, created or planted. The CT'ers have been beating that tired old drum for decades with nothing but accusations, suggestions, implications and a vivid imagination to support their zany ideas. So which one of the dozens of differing theories do you subscribe to, or have you conjured up your own conspiracy theory?
@LoneNutter1 Your laboured sarcasm aside, the "lone nut" theory has always been the least likely - and most "zany" - of all. No-one has ever been able to ascribe a believable motive to Oswald, so the assassination has always been officially portrayed as a random act of violence carried out on a whim, for no apparent reason.
Obviously I don't know who did it...I can only guess. But I would be very surprised if organised crime wasn't involved at some level...hence the actions of Jack Ruby
@Nuttybott I see you avoided my question. I'm not surprised. Regarding LHO's motive; we don't need to have a motive to prove murder. There's overwhelming physical evidence to prove LHO shot JFK. But I know the CT crowd says it was faked or planted. There's no evidence to substanciate the accusation of fakery but then, when does a CT'er need evidence? Ct'ers have been fixated on motive for decades and there are scores of groups and individuals who've been accused over the years of killing JFK.
@Nuttybott And the accusations are based on specualtion only. There's no credibile evidence that anyone other than LHO shot the president. There's no physical evidence(weapons, spent rounds, fingerprints, shell casings) to implicate anyone other that Oswald. Notice I did not include eye witnesses? That's because eye witnesses are unreliable. Ask anyone involved in law enforcement or the law and they'll generally agree. That day in Dallas is a classic case of different people remembering
@Nuttybott the same event differently. Some say they heard 2 shots, some 3, some 4 and some 5 and 6. Some people say they saw smoke from the knoll, some saw sparks fly behind and to the right of the limo, one person said they were struck in the face by a bullet fragement by the triple underpass. Some people said they say nobody firing from the knoll then change their story to say they clearly saw someone firing. Some say they saw people on the knoll disassemble a firearm and store it in a
@Nuttybott toolbox. Some say they heard a bullet go by their ear while they were standing on the knoll. I rely on the physical evidence and if the accused had means and opportunity to commit the crime. Motive is not required.
@LoneNutter1 But to insist on the lone gunman theory is to insist on the theory which makes the least sense. Prsidents are not assassinated for no reason. Whoever killed Kennedy had a very real -and pressing - motive to want him out of the way. Even the physical evidence was sifted and presented very selectively by law enforcement officials and the Warren Commission.
And BTW YOU also avoided MY question...what about Jack Ruby? Surely you don't believe the silly story he told the WC...
@Nuttybott Jack Ruby was a hot head (His nickname was Sparky because of his quick and violent temper) You question is dripping with preconcieved notions. You've already made up you mind about Ruby. You're thinking JR was instructed by the Mob to take out Oswald. It dosen't matter what I think. You'll just rant and rave.
@LoneNutter1 You accuse me of "ranting and raving", but so far YOU have claimed that eyewitnessess are not a reliable source of evidence, that motive is not required in a murder case, and that notorious mobsters like Ruby (who was a runner for Al Capone in the 1930's) suddenly become avenging angels when their beloved President is murdered. And you stick determinedly to the discredited "lone assassin" theory. Even Earl Warren himself later expressed serious doubts about the WC's findings.
@Nuttybott Earl Warren never said any such thing. More "manufactured "evidence by the CT'ers who are determined to prove that something that didn't happen, did. "A non-event leaves no evidence"
@LoneNutter1 ...that he killed Oswald out of patriotic fervour, to spare Mrs Kennedy the trauma of having to testify at Oswald's trial? What utter nonsense...in fact Ruby even admitted it was nonsense to his attorney at his own trial. So where, in your view, does JR fit into the assassination picture?
@LoneNutter1 And Jack Ruby himself stated in a filmed interview in 1966 (available elsewhere on YouTube) that the real facts of the assassination would never become known, due to the powerful vested interests involved in making sure the truth never comes out.
@Nuttybott Do you know when Jack Ruby was speaking (I've seen the video) his mental condition had deteriorated so significantly he would ramble aimlessly on topics? When he died they performed an autopsy and his brain had been severly damamge from the seizures he had experienced during his life. The damage explained his wandering, meandering diatribes on topics. You can't come to a conclusion on a video without doing lots of other investigating. Ruby always said he shot LHO on his own.
@Nuttybott Oswald says "I'm just a patsy" and all of you belive he's telling the truth. Ruby says "I did it (shooting Oswald) all by myself. Nobody else was involved" and you say he's lying. This is just one of the many examples of CT'er nuttyness. I have no reason to conclude Ruby was acting on behalf of "others". If you want to believe he was acting for the Mafia, knock yourself out. Believe whatever you want.
@LoneNutter1 You still haven't answered my question, which was: why do YOU think Ruby killed Oswald? I am just interested to know, that's all.
I am not going to "knock myself out" or "believe whatever I want". To me, it is a matter of intellectual interest at best. Personally, I do not believe Kennedy was killed by a lone assassin at random...not because I am some obsessive conspiracy theorist or anything like that, but because it seems the least likely explanation based on what we know...
@Nuttybott bring your favorite dog with you and leave them in the car if you plan on killing someone. The LHO transfer was way behind schedule. LHO was supposed to have been moved at 10:00 am. Ruby was still in bed at that time. Ruby said he saw LHO had a smirk on his face. LHO did have an annoying facial quirk of pursing his lips which some people took to be a smile. Ruby sees him smiling and shoots him in a rage. Ruby had a very short fuse that could go off anytime. many people who knew
@Nuttybott and worked with him said so. The Dallas police knew that if there was a problem at the Carousel Club all they would have to do is wait at the bottom of the stairs and wait for Ruby to toss them down the stairs. You see,you have to look at the total picture of the person to make a reasonable conclusion. Just because he had ties to the Mob does not make him a hit man. Just because you see a clip of him speaking about how the facts of the case will not come out does not mean there was
@Nuttybott a conspiracy or coverup. Ruby spoke to his Rabbi many times after he shot LHO and always told him that he acted on his own. His brother said the same thing. Friends whom saw him in jail said he repeated the same story to them. I'll admit that there are some interesting aspects of his relationship with the poilice and the Mob but it hardly reaches the level of confirming a conspiracy. But your mind is already made up. It's obvoius. Look at your own words "feeble fabrication".
@LoneNutter1 "But your mind is already made up. It's obvoius. Look at your own words "feeble fabrication". "
My mind is NOT made up, certainly not as much as yours seems to be. Based on what I have seen, I believe there is more than enough evidence to conclude that Oswald was framed by whoever it was that was really behind the assassination. I do not believe Kennedy was killed by some random lone nut...too unlikely in the circumstances. That is my opinion...you are entitles to a different
@LoneNutter1 I think you know it fully well. Almost every aspect of the official case against Oswald has been brought into serious dispute over the years. But as you seem determined to stick to the ludicrous and discredited "lone assassin" theory come what may, any evidence other than the Warren Report and the book "Case Closed" will be rejected by you out of hand.
But there's plenty of material out there...just look for it.
@Nuttybott I see you didn't answer the question. I'll make this easy; list the three best pieces of evidence to show LHO was guilty that's been "brought into serious dispute". You don't need to go into detail on each piece. Just list them.
@LoneNutter1 The "three best pieces of evidence" are a matter of opinion. There are so many, ALL of which are unclear or open to dispute. But right off the top of my head and in no particular order:
1. The so-called "backyard photos". Oswald holding a rifle in one hand and a Communist newspaper in the other? I mean...come ON! Why would he have such photos taken... to incriminate himself? Why not just go the whole way and Photoshop (or 1963 equivalent) him wearing an "I Hate Kennedy" T-shirt?
@LoneNutter1 these photos are totally illogical and serve no purpose whatsoever, other than to make Oswald look like a Communist and a rifleman...which is exactly what the authorities wanted.
2. The rifle supposedly used in the assassination. Originally identified as a Mauser, it somehow magically changed into the infamous Mannlicher-Carcano during the investigation. This rifle was found to have a misaligned gun sight, making Oswald's "miraculous" feat of marksmanship even more impossible.
@LoneNutter1 Furthermore, despite thorough forensic examination Oswald's palm print was found on the rifle only AFTER his death, which leaves open the suspicion that it was taken from his corpse. In addition, a parrafin test conducted on Oswald's cheek returned a negative result...meaning that he had not fired a rifle on November 22nd 1963.
@LoneNutter1 3. Within minutes of the assassination, Dallas police radio was broadcasting a description of the suspect as "an unknown white male about 30, slender build, 5' 10" tall, 165 pounds." Where did they get this from? At that stage, there was enormous confusion in Dealey Plaza about exactly what had happened. And yet here was a pretty accurate description of Oswald. But based on WHAT, exactly?
@Nuttybott The description of Oswald came from Howard Brennen who was sitting on a concrete bench in Dealey Plaza and saw a man in the 6th floor window firing a rifle in the direction of the motorcade. He was only 120 feet away from Oswald. Brennen also saw this man standing in the window of the 6th floor prior to the assassination holding a rifle.Brennen did not know Oswald so there's no evidence the police were looking for someone named Oswald. They were looking for someone who fit the
@Nuttybott description given by Brennen. Officer C.T. Walker spots a person who matches the description of the killer of J.D. Tippit going into the Jefferson Branch Library and police decend on the library looking for the suspect. The suspect, Adrian Hamby works at the library part time and rushed in the building to tell friends that the president had been shot. Police swarm over Hamby only to learn they have the wrong person. I tell this because too many CT'ers have argued that the police had
@Nuttybott only Oswald in mind and were looking for him specifically. Clearly, the police were looking for someone who matched a general description. Johnny Brewer was able to provide the police another suspect who slipped into the Texas Theater without paying for a ticket. Moments prior, Brewer saw this man acting strangely in the lobby of Hardy's Shoe Shop. a man who was out of breath and keeping his back to the street as police cruisers drove past then looking over his shoulder to see if
@Nuttybott they continued. When LHO was arrested in the theater it was for the murder of Tippit, not the president. At the theater LHO punches a police officer, pulls his pistol and tries to shoot the officer. Do innocent people shoot police officers for no reason? When someone flees the scene of a crime the judicial system considers that as "consciousness of guilt"and can use it as evidence in a trial. Oswald was the only person missing from the roll call at the Depository. His rifle was on
@Nuttybott the 6th floor. Fresh, clean, unbroken fibers were found between the butt and the stock of the rifle that came from a shirt he owned. His fingerprints (not the palm print) were found on the trigger guard. He had means and opportunity to commit the crime. You can defend LHO all you want. But the evidence of his guilt is overwhelming.
@LoneNutter1 I am NOT defending him. I never have - because I cannot possibly know whether he committed the assassination. Neither can you. I have always said it is perfectly possible that he was involved in some way...but I do NOT believe he was the lone assassin. And I have only pointed out that "evidence" of his guilt is not as cut and dried as the Warren Commission would have us believe. Yes, he had means and oppoertunity. What he did NOT have (seemingly) was any credible motive.
@LoneNutter1 His own wife Marina has stated repeatedly that her husband did NOT hate Kennedy, and in fact while in Russia he would often speak admiringly about America's dynamic young President to the locals. She says she never heard him say a word against JFK, and despite her co-operation with the WC at the time (reportedly under coersion and the threat of deportation if she did not co-operate in incriminating LHO), she has said many times in more recent years that she does not believe
@LoneNutter1 her husband killed Kennedy. Whatever you might say, the evidence is NOT conclusive. There are just too many loose ends: The lack of motive; the clear evidence of a second gunman (not just the Zapruder film...watch other films of the immediate aftermath. People on the Grassy Knoll hit the ground because they think a shot has come from behind them. Then dozens of people start running towards the top of the Knoll in search of the second gunman); the lack of observation of normal
@LoneNutter1 police procedure in the interrogation of Oswald (in the 36 hours between his arrest and his murder, he was denied access to any legal advice or representation, despite asking for it several times. And all records of the interrogation of Oswald - the world's most important murder suspect at that time -were destroyed, leaving no record of anything he said); the unexplained involvement of Jack Ruby; The mysterious changing of the rifle from a Mauser to a Mannlicher-Carcano;
@LoneNutter1 the ludicrous backyard photos; the even more ludicrous "magic bullet theory"; the unwillingness of the Warren Commission to even consider any evidence that pointed away from their pre-determined conclusion of Oswald's guilt; the discrepencies in the number of shots heard by different witnesses (anywhere between the WC's three, and NINE according to some witnesses); the telex received by the FBI days before JFK's death, forewarning of the assassination but ignored;
@LoneNutter1 the many witnesses who claimed that Ruby and Oswald knew each other BEFORE the assassination, and were often seen together in Ruby's club; Ruby's inexplicable knowledge of the Fair Play For Cuba Committee at Oswald's press conference the night of November 22; the illegal hijacking of the President's body from the Dallas Police jurisdiction, before a proper autopsy could be performed at Parkland Hospital; the fact that EVERY doctor who attended Kennedy has referred to a large exit
@LoneNutter1 wound at the back of the President's head (further evidence of a second gunman); the intimidation of eyewitnesses by the FBI and other Federal authorities into supporting the WC's version of events; the carelessness with which Oswald was paraded up and down the Dallas police station, in front of the press and members of the general public (almost as if they were HOPING someone would try to shoot him). Security of this prisoner should have been airtight...after all, wasn't it in
@LoneNutter1 EVERYONE'S interest that he should stand trial, so that the full truth might come out? If convicted, Oswald would have fried in the chair anyway. Ruby knew this as well as anybody, so why throw his own life away on a random whim? The list goes on and on and on...and this is without even going into the wider conspiract theories expounded by the likes of Garrison & co. You can pick at any of these examples as much as you like, but I'm afraid that the "overwhelming" evidence
@LoneNutter1 is that Oswald was NOT the lone assassin. The Warren Commission was a cover-up, pure and simple. Whoever killed Kennedy had a motive...a very real and serious one. And the evidence - overwhelmingly - points to the far more likely and credible probability of a conspiracy, rather than blaming an unlikely "lone nut" with no motive...
@LoneNutter1 Again, suspicion has to be raised that the "suspect" was pre-determined. And it is significant that after the police arrested Oswald, they stopped looking for any other suspects. He was treated as presumed guilty from the moment of his arrest.
Each one of these examples is very well documented. And there are many, many others.
@LoneNutter1 opinion without resorting to ad hominem attacks. For what it's worth, I think Oswald probably was involved in the conspiracy at some level. But I would need better evidence than that provided by the Warren Commission to be convinced that he acted alone.
@LoneNutter1 BTW you STILL haven't answered my question...where do YOU think Ruby fits into the assassination picture? Did this low-level gangster, pimp and strip-joint owner simply shoot Oswald in a fit of public-spirited indignation, in your view? Was he suddenly (and unprecedentedly) seized by a sense of patriotic duty at the murder of his beloved President (for whom - it should be noted - he had never expressed the slightest loyalty or admiration before)? Or is there some other reason?
@LoneNutter1 After Lee Harvey Oswald was killed by a quick gunshot attack by Jack Ruby, J. Edgar Hoover phoned Johnson saying, "The thing I am most concerned about . . . is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."
Tends to suggest that even at that early stage, the US Government knew Oswald was NOT the real assassin, and wanted to avoid the real truth of the assassination becoming known to the public.
Did Hoffman see the shooters hustling away a rifle in a railroad tool bag after a man in a suit tossed it to another man in railroad cover-alls and he then disassembled it behind a railroad switch box? And what did Bowers see thrown into a trunk?
@Exiles800 Yes Hoffman claimed to see that in "The Men who Killed Kennedy" and in "Rush to Judgement" Lee Bowers saw two men at the fence and saw the muzzle flash.Many beleive that Bowers had a lot more info which is what led to his "accident".
Reading between the lines I think Bowers saw the whole thing including men in railroad uniforms, police uniforms, and Secret Service suits. Bowers wasn't stupid, he realized he was watching a pro-job and better keep his mouth shut. Who knows what kind of intimidation or leading questions led him to give the weak story he did. Bowers probably realized what the men touring the parking lot in strange cars and the camoflagued assassins meant right away and shut-up. He later fessed-up to Holland.
There were several members of Brigade 2506 photographed in Dealey Plaza that day.Rip Robertson & Adrian O'hare are seen standing on Houston St.
In his HSCA testimony Col Robert E. Jones admits sending 8-12 plain clothes Intelligence Agents to Dealey Plaza that day.One of those men,James Powell was found inside the TSBD after the shooting.Also check out the HSCA testimony of Gerry Hemming.
@themeaningoflife38 Let's see.. He was in the TSBD the day of the assassination (Yes) He was not having lunch with fellow TSBD co-workers (Yes) The Carcano was his (Yes) His fingerprints On the rifle (Yes) His fingerprints on the boxes to make a "snipers nest" (Yes) He was the only one not at the employee role call (Yes) He borded and bus blocks from the TSBD (Yes) He left the bus minutes after boarding (Yes) He got into a cab (Yes) He was driven out to his rooming house (Yes)
@themeaningoflife38 He got his jacket (Yes) He got his pistol (Yes) He was on foot and was seen near Patton and 10th Street (Yes) he was stopped by Officer Tippet (Yes) He was seen talking to Tippet (Yes) Tippet got out of the partol car and LHO shot him 3 times (Yes) LHO was leaving, walked back to the fallen Tippet and shot him in the head (Yes) LHO was seen leaving the scene carrying the pistol (Yes) He ditched his jacket (Yes) He was seen by Johnny Brewer acting suspiciously (Yes)
@themeaningoflife38 Brewer saw him go into the Texas Theater (Yes) LHO did not buy a ticket (Yes) Dallas police encounter LHO at the theater (Yes) LHO punches a police officer (Yes) LHO draws his pistol on a police officer (Yes) The pistol belonged to LHO (Yes) It was the same pistol that killed Tippet (Yes) Please tell me what "speculations" have been made about LHO's actions that unfairly direct attention to his criminal behavior?
Dallas Deputy Seymour Weitzman ran behind the fence only seconds after the shooting,he found a man claiming to be Secret Service.Weitzman later ID'd the man as Cuban born Watergate burglar & Brigade 2506 member Bernard Barker.Officer DV Harkness found 3 men behind the TSBD a few mins after the shooting,they all claimed to be SS agents.Harkness told the Warren Commission that he was never able to verify thier identity.
Officially the Secret Service had NO agents in Dealey Plaza that day.
The original fence was dismantled in 2000, in which a new fence was added in it's place. My picket fence sections are from the original fence that I obtained myself from May 1990, please look at the slideshow pics. If you don't believe me go to Dealey Plaza and compare my pictures, to the fence that is there now and you'll notice the difference. Thanks,
It may have been the one that was located at the JFK Assassination Information Center the curator was Larry Howard who has since passed. They did have a section of the original fence, he was also technical consultant to the film JFK. My sections were obtained on a visit in May 1990.
rommel414 10 hours ago
Back in the early 90's there was a full section of the original fence in the lobby of the assassinations museum downtown. There the owner spoke to us and said it was original. A few weeks later it was reported he died... of a heart attack of course. Sad
blackiebeast 10 hours ago
The original fence was weathered and falling apart, since it had been there prior to Nov 1963. The city of Dallas had it removed and installed a new fence on Jan 11, 2000.
rommel414 3 weeks ago
The Criminals of the C.I.A.-Pentagon are slowly but early enough covering up their Evidence of the Grassy-Knoll Picket Fence. Now, with a New Picket Fence any Oils or Fingerprints from the Original Picket Fence are GONE. But, the Evidence can still be puzzled toghether with the Zupgruber 8mm. Colour Film,We "The House of Assissinations" will still Get the Final Science Evidence,We have a Lot of Forensic and Film Evidence at our desposal. The C.I.A.-Pentagon is NOT laughing yet!!!!
Jules7892 2 months ago
Very cool. Im glad I got a piece/plank of the original fence when I was a teenager. I got it after midnight 8/84 from the vantage point of where a gunman would have had to have been if indeed there was one in 63, which i believe. I was an assassination buff and had to have a piece of that controversial history. I was 14 then and just turned 41. The sections for sale are the real deal because mine matches.
chazatlas 4 months ago
whats the name of this nice music theme
zelen35 1 year ago
I have no reason to doubt the words of Jack Ruby. That means I believe he killed LHO for the reasons he stated. Ruby was a hothead(his nickname was Sparky due to his quick temper) he was upset according to numerous witnesses all weekend, his presence at the jail was not uncommon. He liked to be where therer was "action". The police knew who he was. Ruby arrived at the jail within seconds of LHO's transfer after walking from the Western Union office. He had his favorite dog in the car. You don't
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
The 1:33 mark of this video...
The road America died on. This country was never the same on the other side of that underpass. President Kennedy's death was a coup d'etat, an overthrow of the government from within. Every piece of physical evidence against Oswald would crumble like a house of cards in any legitmate courtroom today, which is why he was silenced.
squirevet 1 year ago
To anyone who still believes that LHO was the "lone nut" assassin claimed by the Warren Commission...isn't it just a little bit too much coincidence that this so-called psychotic assassin "just happened" to get a low-paid, low-status job in a building that "just happened" to be on the motorcade route, five weeks before the President's visit...then "just happened" to decide to kill Kennedy on a whim, for no apparent reason whatsoever? Doesn't seem very likely, does it?
Nuttybott 1 year ago
And also...how did LHO manage to shoot Kennedy from the front as well as the back?
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@Nuttybott The Zapruder film was not faked nor did Kennedy get shot from the front. The HSCA in 1979 comissioned 9 forensic patholigists to examine the autopsy report, xrays and photos of the president and all of them said there was no medical evidence to support theories of the president being shot from the front or side.
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 Sorry, but to suggest that the fatal head shot came from anywhere but the front is absurd. The medical "evidence" you cite is widely believed to have been faked or otherwise tampered with afterwards. The Zapruder film shows quite clearly that the final shot came from the front...I have never known anyone who has seen it who thought otherwise. And even the HSCA concluded that Kennedy was "probably assassinated as the result of a conspiracy".
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@Nuttybott Oh that's right , I forgot. Silly me. Of course the medical evidence was faked. Whenever there's evidence that incriminates LHO it was either faked, doctored, manufactured, created or planted. The CT'ers have been beating that tired old drum for decades with nothing but accusations, suggestions, implications and a vivid imagination to support their zany ideas. So which one of the dozens of differing theories do you subscribe to, or have you conjured up your own conspiracy theory?
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
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Nuttybott 1 year ago
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Nuttybott 1 year ago
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@LoneNutter1 Your laboured sarcasm aside, the "lone nut" theory has always been the least likely - and most "zany" - of all. No-one has ever been able to ascribe a believable motive to Oswald, so the assassination has always been officially portrayed as a random act of violence carried out on a whim, for no apparent reason.
Obviously I don't know who did it...I can only guess. But I would be very surprised if organised crime wasn't involved at some level...hence the actions of Jack Ruby
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@Nuttybott I see you avoided my question. I'm not surprised. Regarding LHO's motive; we don't need to have a motive to prove murder. There's overwhelming physical evidence to prove LHO shot JFK. But I know the CT crowd says it was faked or planted. There's no evidence to substanciate the accusation of fakery but then, when does a CT'er need evidence? Ct'ers have been fixated on motive for decades and there are scores of groups and individuals who've been accused over the years of killing JFK.
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@Nuttybott And the accusations are based on specualtion only. There's no credibile evidence that anyone other than LHO shot the president. There's no physical evidence(weapons, spent rounds, fingerprints, shell casings) to implicate anyone other that Oswald. Notice I did not include eye witnesses? That's because eye witnesses are unreliable. Ask anyone involved in law enforcement or the law and they'll generally agree. That day in Dallas is a classic case of different people remembering
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@Nuttybott the same event differently. Some say they heard 2 shots, some 3, some 4 and some 5 and 6. Some people say they saw smoke from the knoll, some saw sparks fly behind and to the right of the limo, one person said they were struck in the face by a bullet fragement by the triple underpass. Some people said they say nobody firing from the knoll then change their story to say they clearly saw someone firing. Some say they saw people on the knoll disassemble a firearm and store it in a
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@Nuttybott toolbox. Some say they heard a bullet go by their ear while they were standing on the knoll. I rely on the physical evidence and if the accused had means and opportunity to commit the crime. Motive is not required.
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 But to insist on the lone gunman theory is to insist on the theory which makes the least sense. Prsidents are not assassinated for no reason. Whoever killed Kennedy had a very real -and pressing - motive to want him out of the way. Even the physical evidence was sifted and presented very selectively by law enforcement officials and the Warren Commission.
And BTW YOU also avoided MY question...what about Jack Ruby? Surely you don't believe the silly story he told the WC...
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@Nuttybott Jack Ruby was a hot head (His nickname was Sparky because of his quick and violent temper) You question is dripping with preconcieved notions. You've already made up you mind about Ruby. You're thinking JR was instructed by the Mob to take out Oswald. It dosen't matter what I think. You'll just rant and rave.
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
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Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 You accuse me of "ranting and raving", but so far YOU have claimed that eyewitnessess are not a reliable source of evidence, that motive is not required in a murder case, and that notorious mobsters like Ruby (who was a runner for Al Capone in the 1930's) suddenly become avenging angels when their beloved President is murdered. And you stick determinedly to the discredited "lone assassin" theory. Even Earl Warren himself later expressed serious doubts about the WC's findings.
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@Nuttybott Earl Warren never said any such thing. More "manufactured "evidence by the CT'ers who are determined to prove that something that didn't happen, did. "A non-event leaves no evidence"
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 ...that he killed Oswald out of patriotic fervour, to spare Mrs Kennedy the trauma of having to testify at Oswald's trial? What utter nonsense...in fact Ruby even admitted it was nonsense to his attorney at his own trial. So where, in your view, does JR fit into the assassination picture?
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@Nuttybott Where are you getting this stuff about what he said to his attorney?? Another "conspiracy book"?? Good grief.
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 And Jack Ruby himself stated in a filmed interview in 1966 (available elsewhere on YouTube) that the real facts of the assassination would never become known, due to the powerful vested interests involved in making sure the truth never comes out.
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@Nuttybott Do you know when Jack Ruby was speaking (I've seen the video) his mental condition had deteriorated so significantly he would ramble aimlessly on topics? When he died they performed an autopsy and his brain had been severly damamge from the seizures he had experienced during his life. The damage explained his wandering, meandering diatribes on topics. You can't come to a conclusion on a video without doing lots of other investigating. Ruby always said he shot LHO on his own.
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 "Ruby always said he shot LHO on his own."
Did he ever offer a believable reason, rather than the feeble fabrication he told the Warren Commission?
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@Nuttybott Oswald says "I'm just a patsy" and all of you belive he's telling the truth. Ruby says "I did it (shooting Oswald) all by myself. Nobody else was involved" and you say he's lying. This is just one of the many examples of CT'er nuttyness. I have no reason to conclude Ruby was acting on behalf of "others". If you want to believe he was acting for the Mafia, knock yourself out. Believe whatever you want.
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 You still haven't answered my question, which was: why do YOU think Ruby killed Oswald? I am just interested to know, that's all.
I am not going to "knock myself out" or "believe whatever I want". To me, it is a matter of intellectual interest at best. Personally, I do not believe Kennedy was killed by a lone assassin at random...not because I am some obsessive conspiracy theorist or anything like that, but because it seems the least likely explanation based on what we know...
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@Nuttybott bring your favorite dog with you and leave them in the car if you plan on killing someone. The LHO transfer was way behind schedule. LHO was supposed to have been moved at 10:00 am. Ruby was still in bed at that time. Ruby said he saw LHO had a smirk on his face. LHO did have an annoying facial quirk of pursing his lips which some people took to be a smile. Ruby sees him smiling and shoots him in a rage. Ruby had a very short fuse that could go off anytime. many people who knew
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@Nuttybott and worked with him said so. The Dallas police knew that if there was a problem at the Carousel Club all they would have to do is wait at the bottom of the stairs and wait for Ruby to toss them down the stairs. You see,you have to look at the total picture of the person to make a reasonable conclusion. Just because he had ties to the Mob does not make him a hit man. Just because you see a clip of him speaking about how the facts of the case will not come out does not mean there was
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@Nuttybott a conspiracy or coverup. Ruby spoke to his Rabbi many times after he shot LHO and always told him that he acted on his own. His brother said the same thing. Friends whom saw him in jail said he repeated the same story to them. I'll admit that there are some interesting aspects of his relationship with the poilice and the Mob but it hardly reaches the level of confirming a conspiracy. But your mind is already made up. It's obvoius. Look at your own words "feeble fabrication".
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 "But your mind is already made up. It's obvoius. Look at your own words "feeble fabrication". "
My mind is NOT made up, certainly not as much as yours seems to be. Based on what I have seen, I believe there is more than enough evidence to conclude that Oswald was framed by whoever it was that was really behind the assassination. I do not believe Kennedy was killed by some random lone nut...too unlikely in the circumstances. That is my opinion...you are entitles to a different
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@Nuttybott So what's the "more than enough evidence to conclude Oswald was framed"? I'd really like to know.
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 I think you know it fully well. Almost every aspect of the official case against Oswald has been brought into serious dispute over the years. But as you seem determined to stick to the ludicrous and discredited "lone assassin" theory come what may, any evidence other than the Warren Report and the book "Case Closed" will be rejected by you out of hand.
But there's plenty of material out there...just look for it.
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@Nuttybott I see you didn't answer the question. I'll make this easy; list the three best pieces of evidence to show LHO was guilty that's been "brought into serious dispute". You don't need to go into detail on each piece. Just list them.
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 The "three best pieces of evidence" are a matter of opinion. There are so many, ALL of which are unclear or open to dispute. But right off the top of my head and in no particular order:
1. The so-called "backyard photos". Oswald holding a rifle in one hand and a Communist newspaper in the other? I mean...come ON! Why would he have such photos taken... to incriminate himself? Why not just go the whole way and Photoshop (or 1963 equivalent) him wearing an "I Hate Kennedy" T-shirt?
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 these photos are totally illogical and serve no purpose whatsoever, other than to make Oswald look like a Communist and a rifleman...which is exactly what the authorities wanted.
2. The rifle supposedly used in the assassination. Originally identified as a Mauser, it somehow magically changed into the infamous Mannlicher-Carcano during the investigation. This rifle was found to have a misaligned gun sight, making Oswald's "miraculous" feat of marksmanship even more impossible.
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 Furthermore, despite thorough forensic examination Oswald's palm print was found on the rifle only AFTER his death, which leaves open the suspicion that it was taken from his corpse. In addition, a parrafin test conducted on Oswald's cheek returned a negative result...meaning that he had not fired a rifle on November 22nd 1963.
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 3. Within minutes of the assassination, Dallas police radio was broadcasting a description of the suspect as "an unknown white male about 30, slender build, 5' 10" tall, 165 pounds." Where did they get this from? At that stage, there was enormous confusion in Dealey Plaza about exactly what had happened. And yet here was a pretty accurate description of Oswald. But based on WHAT, exactly?
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@Nuttybott The description of Oswald came from Howard Brennen who was sitting on a concrete bench in Dealey Plaza and saw a man in the 6th floor window firing a rifle in the direction of the motorcade. He was only 120 feet away from Oswald. Brennen also saw this man standing in the window of the 6th floor prior to the assassination holding a rifle.Brennen did not know Oswald so there's no evidence the police were looking for someone named Oswald. They were looking for someone who fit the
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@Nuttybott description given by Brennen. Officer C.T. Walker spots a person who matches the description of the killer of J.D. Tippit going into the Jefferson Branch Library and police decend on the library looking for the suspect. The suspect, Adrian Hamby works at the library part time and rushed in the building to tell friends that the president had been shot. Police swarm over Hamby only to learn they have the wrong person. I tell this because too many CT'ers have argued that the police had
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@Nuttybott only Oswald in mind and were looking for him specifically. Clearly, the police were looking for someone who matched a general description. Johnny Brewer was able to provide the police another suspect who slipped into the Texas Theater without paying for a ticket. Moments prior, Brewer saw this man acting strangely in the lobby of Hardy's Shoe Shop. a man who was out of breath and keeping his back to the street as police cruisers drove past then looking over his shoulder to see if
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@Nuttybott they continued. When LHO was arrested in the theater it was for the murder of Tippit, not the president. At the theater LHO punches a police officer, pulls his pistol and tries to shoot the officer. Do innocent people shoot police officers for no reason? When someone flees the scene of a crime the judicial system considers that as "consciousness of guilt"and can use it as evidence in a trial. Oswald was the only person missing from the roll call at the Depository. His rifle was on
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@Nuttybott the 6th floor. Fresh, clean, unbroken fibers were found between the butt and the stock of the rifle that came from a shirt he owned. His fingerprints (not the palm print) were found on the trigger guard. He had means and opportunity to commit the crime. You can defend LHO all you want. But the evidence of his guilt is overwhelming.
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 I am NOT defending him. I never have - because I cannot possibly know whether he committed the assassination. Neither can you. I have always said it is perfectly possible that he was involved in some way...but I do NOT believe he was the lone assassin. And I have only pointed out that "evidence" of his guilt is not as cut and dried as the Warren Commission would have us believe. Yes, he had means and oppoertunity. What he did NOT have (seemingly) was any credible motive.
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 His own wife Marina has stated repeatedly that her husband did NOT hate Kennedy, and in fact while in Russia he would often speak admiringly about America's dynamic young President to the locals. She says she never heard him say a word against JFK, and despite her co-operation with the WC at the time (reportedly under coersion and the threat of deportation if she did not co-operate in incriminating LHO), she has said many times in more recent years that she does not believe
Nuttybott 1 year ago
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Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 her husband killed Kennedy. Whatever you might say, the evidence is NOT conclusive. There are just too many loose ends: The lack of motive; the clear evidence of a second gunman (not just the Zapruder film...watch other films of the immediate aftermath. People on the Grassy Knoll hit the ground because they think a shot has come from behind them. Then dozens of people start running towards the top of the Knoll in search of the second gunman); the lack of observation of normal
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 police procedure in the interrogation of Oswald (in the 36 hours between his arrest and his murder, he was denied access to any legal advice or representation, despite asking for it several times. And all records of the interrogation of Oswald - the world's most important murder suspect at that time -were destroyed, leaving no record of anything he said); the unexplained involvement of Jack Ruby; The mysterious changing of the rifle from a Mauser to a Mannlicher-Carcano;
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 the ludicrous backyard photos; the even more ludicrous "magic bullet theory"; the unwillingness of the Warren Commission to even consider any evidence that pointed away from their pre-determined conclusion of Oswald's guilt; the discrepencies in the number of shots heard by different witnesses (anywhere between the WC's three, and NINE according to some witnesses); the telex received by the FBI days before JFK's death, forewarning of the assassination but ignored;
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 the many witnesses who claimed that Ruby and Oswald knew each other BEFORE the assassination, and were often seen together in Ruby's club; Ruby's inexplicable knowledge of the Fair Play For Cuba Committee at Oswald's press conference the night of November 22; the illegal hijacking of the President's body from the Dallas Police jurisdiction, before a proper autopsy could be performed at Parkland Hospital; the fact that EVERY doctor who attended Kennedy has referred to a large exit
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 wound at the back of the President's head (further evidence of a second gunman); the intimidation of eyewitnesses by the FBI and other Federal authorities into supporting the WC's version of events; the carelessness with which Oswald was paraded up and down the Dallas police station, in front of the press and members of the general public (almost as if they were HOPING someone would try to shoot him). Security of this prisoner should have been airtight...after all, wasn't it in
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 EVERYONE'S interest that he should stand trial, so that the full truth might come out? If convicted, Oswald would have fried in the chair anyway. Ruby knew this as well as anybody, so why throw his own life away on a random whim? The list goes on and on and on...and this is without even going into the wider conspiract theories expounded by the likes of Garrison & co. You can pick at any of these examples as much as you like, but I'm afraid that the "overwhelming" evidence
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 is that Oswald was NOT the lone assassin. The Warren Commission was a cover-up, pure and simple. Whoever killed Kennedy had a motive...a very real and serious one. And the evidence - overwhelmingly - points to the far more likely and credible probability of a conspiracy, rather than blaming an unlikely "lone nut" with no motive...
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 Again, suspicion has to be raised that the "suspect" was pre-determined. And it is significant that after the police arrested Oswald, they stopped looking for any other suspects. He was treated as presumed guilty from the moment of his arrest.
Each one of these examples is very well documented. And there are many, many others.
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 opinion without resorting to ad hominem attacks. For what it's worth, I think Oswald probably was involved in the conspiracy at some level. But I would need better evidence than that provided by the Warren Commission to be convinced that he acted alone.
Nuttybott 1 year ago
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Nuttybott 1 year ago
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@LoneNutter1 BTW you STILL haven't answered my question...where do YOU think Ruby fits into the assassination picture? Did this low-level gangster, pimp and strip-joint owner simply shoot Oswald in a fit of public-spirited indignation, in your view? Was he suddenly (and unprecedentedly) seized by a sense of patriotic duty at the murder of his beloved President (for whom - it should be noted - he had never expressed the slightest loyalty or admiration before)? Or is there some other reason?
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 After Lee Harvey Oswald was killed by a quick gunshot attack by Jack Ruby, J. Edgar Hoover phoned Johnson saying, "The thing I am most concerned about . . . is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."
Tends to suggest that even at that early stage, the US Government knew Oswald was NOT the real assassin, and wanted to avoid the real truth of the assassination becoming known to the public.
Nuttybott 1 year ago
@Nuttybott At best it "suggests".That's about it
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
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Nuttybott 1 year ago
Did Hoffman see the shooters hustling away a rifle in a railroad tool bag after a man in a suit tossed it to another man in railroad cover-alls and he then disassembled it behind a railroad switch box? And what did Bowers see thrown into a trunk?
Exiles800 1 year ago
@Exiles800 Yes Hoffman claimed to see that in "The Men who Killed Kennedy" and in "Rush to Judgement" Lee Bowers saw two men at the fence and saw the muzzle flash.Many beleive that Bowers had a lot more info which is what led to his "accident".
themeaningoflife38 1 year ago
Reading between the lines I think Bowers saw the whole thing including men in railroad uniforms, police uniforms, and Secret Service suits. Bowers wasn't stupid, he realized he was watching a pro-job and better keep his mouth shut. Who knows what kind of intimidation or leading questions led him to give the weak story he did. Bowers probably realized what the men touring the parking lot in strange cars and the camoflagued assassins meant right away and shut-up. He later fessed-up to Holland.
Exiles800 1 year ago
There were several members of Brigade 2506 photographed in Dealey Plaza that day.Rip Robertson & Adrian O'hare are seen standing on Houston St.
In his HSCA testimony Col Robert E. Jones admits sending 8-12 plain clothes Intelligence Agents to Dealey Plaza that day.One of those men,James Powell was found inside the TSBD after the shooting.Also check out the HSCA testimony of Gerry Hemming.
themeaningoflife38 1 year ago
@themeaningoflife38 That's very interesting but it proves nothing.
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@LoneNutter1 Just like "Speculation" proves nothing about Oswald's actions
themeaningoflife38 1 year ago
@themeaningoflife38 Let's see.. He was in the TSBD the day of the assassination (Yes) He was not having lunch with fellow TSBD co-workers (Yes) The Carcano was his (Yes) His fingerprints On the rifle (Yes) His fingerprints on the boxes to make a "snipers nest" (Yes) He was the only one not at the employee role call (Yes) He borded and bus blocks from the TSBD (Yes) He left the bus minutes after boarding (Yes) He got into a cab (Yes) He was driven out to his rooming house (Yes)
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@themeaningoflife38 He got his jacket (Yes) He got his pistol (Yes) He was on foot and was seen near Patton and 10th Street (Yes) he was stopped by Officer Tippet (Yes) He was seen talking to Tippet (Yes) Tippet got out of the partol car and LHO shot him 3 times (Yes) LHO was leaving, walked back to the fallen Tippet and shot him in the head (Yes) LHO was seen leaving the scene carrying the pistol (Yes) He ditched his jacket (Yes) He was seen by Johnny Brewer acting suspiciously (Yes)
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
@themeaningoflife38 Brewer saw him go into the Texas Theater (Yes) LHO did not buy a ticket (Yes) Dallas police encounter LHO at the theater (Yes) LHO punches a police officer (Yes) LHO draws his pistol on a police officer (Yes) The pistol belonged to LHO (Yes) It was the same pistol that killed Tippet (Yes) Please tell me what "speculations" have been made about LHO's actions that unfairly direct attention to his criminal behavior?
LoneNutter1 1 year ago
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Nuttybott 1 year ago
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Nuttybott 1 year ago
Dallas Deputy Seymour Weitzman ran behind the fence only seconds after the shooting,he found a man claiming to be Secret Service.Weitzman later ID'd the man as Cuban born Watergate burglar & Brigade 2506 member Bernard Barker.Officer DV Harkness found 3 men behind the TSBD a few mins after the shooting,they all claimed to be SS agents.Harkness told the Warren Commission that he was never able to verify thier identity.
Officially the Secret Service had NO agents in Dealey Plaza that day.
themeaningoflife38 1 year ago
The original fence was dismantled in 2000, in which a new fence was added in it's place. My picket fence sections are from the original fence that I obtained myself from May 1990, please look at the slideshow pics. If you don't believe me go to Dealey Plaza and compare my pictures, to the fence that is there now and you'll notice the difference. Thanks,
rommel414 2 years ago
@rommel414 good video man..why did they put a new fence up?
cwc27 3 weeks ago