maybe if scientist can isolate the "gay gene", then any fetus with it could be aborted because how many parents are going to want a gay child? there would be no more homosexuals in the future but is that so bad?
Nancy,Are you aware that the abortion industry is totally unregulated? That the 'nurses', anesthesiolosists'(if they have anesthetic), 'ultrasound techs' are just single mothers with no training at all in alot of cases? That women die from abortions & complications of abortion?That the abortionists themselves are outcast obgyn's that the real medical profession will not even recognize?
@angelshoulders - oh please, everything you've written is extremist propaganda... please feel free to provide proof of your assertions (unless, of course, you can't) and be sure to include those pesky statistics that "women die" from complications of pregnancy & childbirth at much greater numbers, eh? Good luck with all the facts.
For "IronOxideCorset": The nervous sytem is present (and still maturing) in the 8 week human fetus. At 11 weeks, the face and all parts of the upper and lower extremities are sensitive to touch. Imagine then, what this "sensitive to touch" infant feels when the pro-choice suction abortion machine starts grinding her to death. You and I cannot personally vouch for how much pain she experiences. You and I were not aborted.
If you are "pro-choice", please watch a sonogram of an actual first trimester abortion. (They are rare for viewing. But one, from the 1980s, is on "YouTube": Silent Scream part 3.) You see how the fetus is sensitive to physical touch. Watch her try to avoid the abortionist who is killing her. How much pain did she feel while being aborted? Judge for yourself. (Of course, none of us know, first hand, how painful it was: None of us [including Barack Obama] was killed, in utero, by abortion.
No, it didn't. Even completely brain dead people can react to movement. A fetus is completely incapable of doing purposeful movements, especially the idea that it could "avoid" something.
we estimate that most pro-choice women in the USA have had abortions. So What Motivates Pro-Choice Women? Is it the love of God? Is it the love of humanity? Is it about the welfare of women in Africa? No, what motivates pro-choice women is their need to rationalize and self-justify their crime against nature, their crime against humanity, their crime against self, their crime against their child and their crime against God
although fetus' are not considered human beings, the pro-life nuts argue that each fetus is a "potential" human, or a "potential child"... so where do you draw the line? the egg cell of a woman is "potentially" half a child, just like a sperm cell from a man.
it wont be long before the right wing christians will want every man whos ever masturbated in his life arrested and convicted for mass murder for shooting out and killing a few thousand "potential" babies every time he jerks off! LOL XD
this crazy blonde bitch can talk about all the polls she wants and say that the "majority of americans say they are pro life".. but its true what the other woman said.. we elected a pro choice president, vast majority of pro choice senators, and the abortion bans, even in a more conservative state as south dakota is, has been defeated TWICE in the past 3 years.. right wing extremists are nuts.
Pro-life Americans should vigorously oppose any federal health care reform legislation that does not explicitly exclude abortion from the scope of any government-defined or government-mandated package of health care services.Go to National Right to Life and with just a click you can let your senators and congressmen know how you feel. They represent US and then forward the form to everyone you know. We can turn this thing around. UNITE!
Level headed, calm Nancy versus insane-babbling-rightwing-lunatic susan......oh yeah the majority of yankland AND the friggin' President are are Nancy's side.
And that is why i would never become an iranian police officer. A friend of mine joined the navy in the 80's and despite disliking atomic weapons he wound up on a Boomer. He told me that despite his hatred of the idea of a nuclear war he was responsible for maintaing the eletrical systems which would have made it possible to launch the weapons. He did this because it was his job he signed on to it, because he needed a job. He did it in spite of his conscience. Anyway it's been a lovely chat.
I know, you get my meaning? Most of them who do it, do it out of fear of reprisal, not because they believe its right.(I HOPE!!)
I don't think there is anyone who wouldn't hate the idea of a Nuke war!! I hope & pray its more a bluff/deterent than anything else! Its why we need to keep them out of the hands of madmen like the Iranian Dictator. Hope Obama delivers on that~!
I agree, lively chat. Don't blindly follow a party b/c you agree with 1 issue. Several GOP Issues I detest & fight. ;-)
Dear flyboymd82, i apologize for being snippy, it's just that most people tend to assume rightly so that the Kat in Katvilani stands for katherine or katie. I would love to continue but we will disagree that much is apparent amd rather than get to the point where we just talk past each other let's just recognize the gulf that seperates our respective views on this issue. when one becomes an iranian police officer one knows that they must enforce the law including hanging gays
Thanks for the fun debate, you're very good at debating. I meet so few people who are as avid in their convictions as i am, without getting into character assassination and all out name-calling. btw i didn't mean to imply that you were a wacko. sorry if that wasn't clear but character limits make it hard to make things crystal clear at times. Have a nice day
I didn't think you were calling me a wackjob! LOL!
You have a nice one as well. Just keep an open mind & don't be afraid to change it. Not telling you to! Just not to be afraid to grow, think & change! I used to be a Democrat liberal if you can beleive it!!
Well thanks again and i do have an open mind and i'm not afraid to change it and all that. But i'm sure that you probably assumed that already. I used to approve of abortion but as i said i now disapprove of it but it's not the decision of the government or me, the choice is between the woman, her doctor, her conscience and whatever god(s) she may believe in or not believe in. Goodbye and pleasant dreams. It's a little past my bedtime and if i don't get any sleep i won't ne making it to work.
Dr. Fredrik Broekhuizen performs abortions and testified under oath in US District Court on April 5, 2004 about how he does abortions. The following describes legal activity: "I will then, while holding on to the fetus try and ease those parts through the cervix The fetus will either continue to come or will begin to break apart. It will break apart wherever or whatever it is. It may be in the middle of the leg, it may be at the abdomen, it may be at the chest' (Planned Parenthood v. Ashcroft)
I guess if abortion is murder we should try every woman who ever had an abortion, everyone she told that she was getting one , the person who helped her get to the clinic, the medical staff of the clinic, and anyone else who after the abortion didn't report her for murder. I mean there's no statute of limitations on murder so it goes without saying the prison population will go up at least until we start executing them for a capital crime.
We already went there! I already told you anyone who has ever had an abortion CAN'T & SHOULDN'T be charged with ANYTHING because abortion is LEGAL right now!
Stop with the sillyness!
To be honest, I don't think it will ever be banned, but that won't stop me from speaking out about how I feel about it. I don't know how a woman could live with herself after one. I couldn't. Many woman develope mental illness's & depression (even suicide) b/c in the back of their minds, they know its wrong.
Less than 1% of women have said they regret their abortions.
Suicide is more common after giving birth than after having an abortion. Should we outlaw giving birth because it causes women to devolop mental illnesses, depression, and commit suicide? If giving birth isn't bad, why does it cause women so many problems?
Very true. Abortion is much safer for the woman both physically and mentally. Being pregnant and giving birth is filled with risks.
Giving birth is "safer" than what it used to be thanks to medical technology. But most pro-lifers are anti science and believe that the world was created in 7 days so they would just screw things up
@CrazyGothicChick You are wrong, I pesonaly know someone who just in recent weeks, after 23 years after the abortion, came to the father crying and said it was a wrong choice and it has "haunted" her every day of her life. I know several women who have said this. Just think of it, you kill your own child, then you have to live with the thought of that the rest of your life. You can NEVER change it once the baby is killed. It's your OWN child, why would you do that anyway! It's a human life.
@CrazyGothicChick Where did you get this info? I'm writting a paper for school on this issue and most research shows the majority of women regret their abortions.
If the religious right ever got what they wanted we would have blasphemy laws again, which would be an abrogation of the 1st amendment which thanks to the 14th Amendment applies to state and local government as well. When i was ten people in my hometown wanted to ban books, and they lobbied hard to keep an adult book store from opening but they failed but they keep trying.We're not off topic one can justify any action by claiming that it violates their beliefs or conflicts with their conscience
You can find wacko's all day long katvilani, its not the average Conservative!! I can find wacko liberals who want to turn the USA into a Communist Country(Like Obama!! LOL).
Its not the average liberal! Stop using one or two nutjobs to paint religious people & conservatives. I don't beleive in banning contraceptives, but I DO believe that a fetus is a human being and killing it is murder. Once concieved, I believe its human & I'm not getting into the medical science that backs my belief.
"Spread the wealth", "National Civlilian security force", "Cap & Trade", "Hate speech laws", "The Constitution is outdated", "Youth service corps".........need I say more?
No pelosi, and the others do not want the fairness doctrine, quit repeating Faux news talking points. Really there are religious people on the right that if they got their way Homosexuality would be criminalized just as it was in many states once upon a time. They also want to forbid people from using contraception they will do so by loosely wording personhood laws making a fetus a person and forbidding any thing that might prevent implantation of the embryo. So who wants to force what on who
Yeah, they DO! Type in "Democrats for the fairness doctrine"........there are 88 videos about it. It will SILENCE conservative talk radio, are you trying to tell me conservatives want it?? Come on!
I'm sure there are some religious wackjobs who want that, they are the fringe minority, kinda like Bill Ayers of the athiest left who "declared war on America". GOP condemns the wacko's from Kansas who protest soldiers funerals b/c "god hates fags".
Gary North, Gary Potter, Paul weyrich, Pat robertson, Beverly Lahaye, and R J Rushdoony have all said some rather terrible things about our present form of government and it's neutralitry towards religion. They just don't go about it in as crazy a fashion as members of the Westboro Baptist Church, No one is forced to become a doctor, when one becomes a doctor one should realize that you might have to do something you don't like. If i get a job i can't tell my employer hey i don't want to do that
Never hear of any of those folks other than Roberson. I'm not a real religious guy, I just think aboriton is murder.
Of course you can refuse to do certain things as an employee! Do you think an neurosurgeon could be forced to do a heart transplant?? A Doctor must be TRAINED to do abortions! Not just any doctor can do them! Thats silly!
So your saying is if my lifelong dream were to be a Doctor, its squashed because Obama & YOU say I'm FORCED do abortions if I become one? Its sick!
We are not talking about something you'd PREFER not to do b/c you "don't like it". We are talking about committing MURDER in someone like me's mind!
I know this is a silly analogy only because its illegal, but what if murder was NOT illegal? Like in Iran, murdering homosexuals is perfectly legal. How would you like to be a police officer in Iran & be ordered to hang a gay person?
Thats what it would be like for me If I were a Doctor and ordered to do an aborton! Can you see what I mean??
Here in the United States, you can't force someone to perform an abortion.
Since abortion isn't murder and never will be (What pregnant woman says "I'm going to have an abortion because I want my fetus dead"?) It's done to end the pregnancy not done to hurt or kill the fetus.
Nobody wants to criminalize homosexuality & you know it. They just don't want the religious institution of marriage applied to it. I, and most conservatives are fine with "civil unions" which give gay couples all the rights of a married couple, just not in the eyes of the church.
I agree with you on hating people pushing thier "community standards" as far as sex shops, toys, & what you do in your own home etc!
We're WAY off topic here. Who did you know who wanted to ban books?
I know it was an analogy, but it was a poor one. And how dare you talk down to me as if because i disagree with you or maybe its because i'm a woman that i'm stupid or something. That is pretty arrogant of you. So should we allow doctors who disapprove of homosexuality or interracial marriage to not operate on a patient even if they are the only doctor available at the time, or should they be held criminally negligent for failing to render treatment. Please respond since this is a beter analogy
I'm really impressed that Obama talked directly about abortion, and the "public conversation" about abortion, in his speech. With all the controversy, it would've been easy to side-step it. He took the honest route.
The blonde woman who is anti-abortion, just through her rhetoric is proof that there is very little hope for finding common ground on the subject of abortion. As for Obama I don't believe that we should have conscience clauses that allow people to opt out of performing acts that violate their religious sensibilitites. Don't want to perform abortions, don't become a doctor or healthcare worker. Don't want to dispense contraceptives, don't become a pharmacist. It's that simple.
I should be FORCED to commit what I beleive is murder if my life's dream is to be a doctor & help heal people? I should be FORCED to do things against my will & moral code because YOU & others like you think its Okay?
You don't think there are plenty of other Doctors who will do Abortions?
How "tolerant" of you.
Wonder when have the pork industry will lobby to pass laws FORCING muslims to eat pork?
So if a police officer or firefighter hates certain minorities they shouldn't have to risk their lives to protect or rescue them. A Police hates interracial couples and sees some people threatening or even harming such a couple and they get killed he shouldn't be held accountable because helping them would have violated his conscience. And i'm not a liberal, i used to call my self a conservative until that word came to mean an authoritarian who wants to control what you read, say and do.
What?? Who are the "authoritarians"?? Who wants to FORCE people to do things against thier will here? Who wants to control whats said, read & heard? Who just banned Michael Savage from GB b/c they don't like what he says? Who wants to pass "hate speech laws"? Who wants to pass the "fairness doctrine"(AKA conservative silenceing law)? LIBERAL & DEMOCRATS DO!
Your analogy with police/fire is silly, they take an oath & swear to uphold the Constitution & laws & to help people, much like Docs.
No it's not if it violates their religious ethics or rights of conscience should they have to render assistance to those they dislike or maybe even hate so much they believe they should be killed. The mathew sheppard act covers actions not speech, and i don't like censorship even of wrong ideas or objectionable speech. And i don't know of any democrat pushing the fairness doctrine. Conservatives however are keen on questioning the patriotism of those who ask questions
Right we force people to have abortions, really i was speaking of authoritarians like those who want to criminalize homosexuality or what two or more consenting adults do in the privacy of their home or ban sex toys or adult book stores using the community standards arguments which basically boils down to you in the minority have only those rights we allow you to enjoy.Please don't tell me about authoritarians I grew up listening to people talk about liberty one moment and banning books the next
I didn't talk down to you & I had NO idea your a woman! Geeze!
NO! Nobody should be able to kill or hurt ANYONE else b/c of their religious beliefs! Thats my point, nor should they be FORCED to kill due to your beliefs! A doctor takes a "NO HARM" oath. Never to harm anyone for any reason. That analogy is WAY off the subject.
We agree on not liking censorship, however Pelosi, Reid, Obama, Boxer, Fienstien, & many others want the fairness doctrine. NO conservatives do.
And since when is eating pork the same as having a career in which you may face a situation you would rather not deal with. Very few doctor's learn to do abortions anymore because they're afraid of wackos with guns and a message from god targeting them. How tolerant of you calling people fascists without the vaguest idea of what fascism is and isn't. So if abortion is murder and there's no statute of limitations on murder what should be done with all those who have had abortions.
I didn't say it was the same thing. Its an analogy & is the same principal, forcing someone to do something which offends that persons moral/religious code! Get it?
There are many more wackos on the left who think pouring blood on a woman in a fur coat is rational, yet you think anyone who protests outside an abortion clinic is an extremeist?
Abortion IS murder, however is not considered murder by law at this time. Nothing should happen to those who have had abortions! I'm not a nut!
So forcing a parent to seek medical attention for their child when they are sick if it goes against their religious convictions is wrong, even if allowing the child to die means that they have commited murder. So we should allow people to kill their daughters for soiling their families honor based on their interpertation of their religious scripture.There are extremists on both left and right and maybe even center. And how do you know the number of extremists in each group did you take a poll?
No, it's not, dumbass, murder is SOLELY the UNLAWFUL killing (abortion is legal) of a human being (a fetus is NOT a person, if you think it is, you must be as smart as one yourself!) with malice aforethought (it's not malice, either), there's NO other way to slice and dice it. It even SPECIFICALLY says in the American Heritage Dictionary, UNLAWFUL killing.
Abortions are done mostly for non-medical reasons. As the abortion industry itself admits on the website of the Alan Guttmacher Institute, "[T]hree-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner."
hey angel, you don't have to have an abortion. Don't go around telling other women what to do and what not to do. Your biased info. and scare tactics are unacceptable.
If you dont want an aborition, dont have one. What of the poor person from a 3rd-World country *wanted* to sell herself to me. I would pay several $ to her family, and my "slave" would come live in my home & work for me & be taken care of for the rest of her life. You have a problem with that? Well, I don't want to hear about it, because, as you said, people should "make up their own minds."
So because they are done for non-medical reasons the government should be able to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term. If a woman cannot be trusted to make her own decisions regarding a pregnancy why allow them any say at all about anything in their lives.
".The abortion-rights folks know it, the anti-abortion folks know it, and so probably, does everyone else. One of the facts of abortion is that women enter abortion clinics to kill their fetuses. It is a form of killing ...you're ending a life." Ron Fitzsimmons, Executive Director, National Coalition of Abortion Providers, New York Times, 26 Feb. 1997. President Obama's pro-murder agenda is the most aggressive America has ever seen.America will not reject abortion until America SEES Abortion
Thank you! I just think government should butt out and leave women to make their own choice. If we can't be trusted to control our own bodies, we can't trusted period.
Thank you, as i've said before i personally disapprove of abortion but it's the decision of the woman who is pregnant. It's not my decision nor should it be the governments decision. THe choice belongs to the woman.
Abortions are done mostly for non-medical reasons. As the abortion industry itself admits on the website of the Alan Guttmacher Institute, "[T]hree-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner."
He is doing what he said he would do. Yes, the reversal of the ban on money for foreign abortions that President Obama signed is a red flag and the tip of the iceberg. Obama Promised CHANGE and HOPE. "Where there is LIFE there is HOPE" and signing this Mexico City Pro-Abortion death warrant approving that our tax dollars pay for millions of 3rd world children to be aborted worldwide is definitely a betrayal of the trust that many people like myself have placed in him.
You're correct fetuses are potential children, although statistically speaking the vast majority will if not aborted be born. They are still potential children until birth. If a fetus is given full human rights it can only be at the expense of the mother, a being who is physically dependent as in still in the womb if granted full human rights those rights may eventually conflict with the mothers rights. who gets to choose whose rights are more important the mother or the state?.
Sad some people won't even try to compromise. Obama is trying to please a very diverse country, and that's a lot of pressure under one man. I applaud him for not only taking on the challenge, but having sensible answers.
What I don't understand is how can anyone call two people yelling at each other a "debate"? Seriously, newshows needs to work on their "debates" and have these talking heads bring in some serious information that would really shut these people down. Bring in solid information stating that sex ed leads to fewer unwanted pregnancies, catch blondie on her Freudian slips, etc.
maybe if scientist can isolate the "gay gene", then any fetus with it could be aborted because how many parents are going to want a gay child? there would be no more homosexuals in the future but is that so bad?
turquoise770 1 year ago
Nancy,Are you aware that the abortion industry is totally unregulated? That the 'nurses', anesthesiolosists'(if they have anesthetic), 'ultrasound techs' are just single mothers with no training at all in alot of cases? That women die from abortions & complications of abortion?That the abortionists themselves are outcast obgyn's that the real medical profession will not even recognize?
angelshoulders 1 year ago
@angelshoulders - oh please, everything you've written is extremist propaganda... please feel free to provide proof of your assertions (unless, of course, you can't) and be sure to include those pesky statistics that "women die" from complications of pregnancy & childbirth at much greater numbers, eh? Good luck with all the facts.
kcsorci 1 year ago
For "IronOxideCorset": The nervous sytem is present (and still maturing) in the 8 week human fetus. At 11 weeks, the face and all parts of the upper and lower extremities are sensitive to touch. Imagine then, what this "sensitive to touch" infant feels when the pro-choice suction abortion machine starts grinding her to death. You and I cannot personally vouch for how much pain she experiences. You and I were not aborted.
kweer58 2 years ago
@kweer58 - I call BS... unless you can provide proof of your assertions, that is.
kcsorci 1 year ago
If you are "pro-choice", please watch a sonogram of an actual first trimester abortion. (They are rare for viewing. But one, from the 1980s, is on "YouTube": Silent Scream part 3.) You see how the fetus is sensitive to physical touch. Watch her try to avoid the abortionist who is killing her. How much pain did she feel while being aborted? Judge for yourself. (Of course, none of us know, first hand, how painful it was: None of us [including Barack Obama] was killed, in utero, by abortion.
kweer58 2 years ago
Get over it
laniwilliamson 2 years ago
No, it didn't. Even completely brain dead people can react to movement. A fetus is completely incapable of doing purposeful movements, especially the idea that it could "avoid" something.
IronOxideCorset 2 years ago
Does this woman who does not believe in choice believe in contraceptives???
lu80123 2 years ago 3
Sure didn't sound like it, did it? She skipped right over it. Typical
MARLANAEMARTINEZ 2 years ago 4
wow, that other women commenting was scary, could they have found a worse person to represent her view? Actually, they probably could.
mathshop24 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
we estimate that most pro-choice women in the USA have had abortions. So What Motivates Pro-Choice Women? Is it the love of God? Is it the love of humanity? Is it about the welfare of women in Africa? No, what motivates pro-choice women is their need to rationalize and self-justify their crime against nature, their crime against humanity, their crime against self, their crime against their child and their crime against God
angelshoulders 2 years ago
although fetus' are not considered human beings, the pro-life nuts argue that each fetus is a "potential" human, or a "potential child"... so where do you draw the line? the egg cell of a woman is "potentially" half a child, just like a sperm cell from a man.
it wont be long before the right wing christians will want every man whos ever masturbated in his life arrested and convicted for mass murder for shooting out and killing a few thousand "potential" babies every time he jerks off! LOL XD
angelboi101 2 years ago 4
this crazy blonde bitch can talk about all the polls she wants and say that the "majority of americans say they are pro life".. but its true what the other woman said.. we elected a pro choice president, vast majority of pro choice senators, and the abortion bans, even in a more conservative state as south dakota is, has been defeated TWICE in the past 3 years.. right wing extremists are nuts.
angelboi101 2 years ago 4
Was that lady disappointed when they honored pro DEATH penalty Bush?Does he value 'the culture of life'?
javy150 2 years ago 4
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Pro-life Americans should vigorously oppose any federal health care reform legislation that does not explicitly exclude abortion from the scope of any government-defined or government-mandated package of health care services.Go to National Right to Life and with just a click you can let your senators and congressmen know how you feel. They represent US and then forward the form to everyone you know. We can turn this thing around. UNITE!
angelshoulders 2 years ago
omg what the freak is with that womans eyes???
Mem4289 2 years ago
Typical libtards, all they can do is insult the messenger, not the mesage.
You morons ever notice your fucked up hero Nance Pelosi does the same thing?
LOL!
flyboymd82 2 years ago
crisis pregnancies centers? that is after pregnancy. she was asking about preventing the pregnancy in the first place. the prolifers dont want that.
leiapeison 2 years ago 2
heh this is funny!
Level headed, calm Nancy versus insane-babbling-rightwing-lunatic susan......oh yeah the majority of yankland AND the friggin' President are are Nancy's side.
.....cry me a river Susan.....cry me a river.
farnium 2 years ago 3
AHAHAHA she keeps blinking.
It's creepy but HILLARIOUS
GreenLightStop09 2 years ago
And that is why i would never become an iranian police officer. A friend of mine joined the navy in the 80's and despite disliking atomic weapons he wound up on a Boomer. He told me that despite his hatred of the idea of a nuclear war he was responsible for maintaing the eletrical systems which would have made it possible to launch the weapons. He did this because it was his job he signed on to it, because he needed a job. He did it in spite of his conscience. Anyway it's been a lovely chat.
katvilani 2 years ago
I know, you get my meaning? Most of them who do it, do it out of fear of reprisal, not because they believe its right.(I HOPE!!)
I don't think there is anyone who wouldn't hate the idea of a Nuke war!! I hope & pray its more a bluff/deterent than anything else! Its why we need to keep them out of the hands of madmen like the Iranian Dictator. Hope Obama delivers on that~!
I agree, lively chat. Don't blindly follow a party b/c you agree with 1 issue. Several GOP Issues I detest & fight. ;-)
flyboymd82 2 years ago
Dear flyboymd82, i apologize for being snippy, it's just that most people tend to assume rightly so that the Kat in Katvilani stands for katherine or katie. I would love to continue but we will disagree that much is apparent amd rather than get to the point where we just talk past each other let's just recognize the gulf that seperates our respective views on this issue. when one becomes an iranian police officer one knows that they must enforce the law including hanging gays
katvilani 2 years ago
Wow, to think we agree on something! LOL! I was feeling the same way!
Fair nuff!
flyboymd82 2 years ago
Thanks for the fun debate, you're very good at debating. I meet so few people who are as avid in their convictions as i am, without getting into character assassination and all out name-calling. btw i didn't mean to imply that you were a wacko. sorry if that wasn't clear but character limits make it hard to make things crystal clear at times. Have a nice day
katvilani 2 years ago
I didn't think you were calling me a wackjob! LOL!
You have a nice one as well. Just keep an open mind & don't be afraid to change it. Not telling you to! Just not to be afraid to grow, think & change! I used to be a Democrat liberal if you can beleive it!!
Take care....
flyboymd82 2 years ago
Well thanks again and i do have an open mind and i'm not afraid to change it and all that. But i'm sure that you probably assumed that already. I used to approve of abortion but as i said i now disapprove of it but it's not the decision of the government or me, the choice is between the woman, her doctor, her conscience and whatever god(s) she may believe in or not believe in. Goodbye and pleasant dreams. It's a little past my bedtime and if i don't get any sleep i won't ne making it to work.
katvilani 2 years ago
Dr. Fredrik Broekhuizen performs abortions and testified under oath in US District Court on April 5, 2004 about how he does abortions. The following describes legal activity: "I will then, while holding on to the fetus try and ease those parts through the cervix The fetus will either continue to come or will begin to break apart. It will break apart wherever or whatever it is. It may be in the middle of the leg, it may be at the abdomen, it may be at the chest' (Planned Parenthood v. Ashcroft)
angelshoulders 2 years ago
I guess if abortion is murder we should try every woman who ever had an abortion, everyone she told that she was getting one , the person who helped her get to the clinic, the medical staff of the clinic, and anyone else who after the abortion didn't report her for murder. I mean there's no statute of limitations on murder so it goes without saying the prison population will go up at least until we start executing them for a capital crime.
katvilani 2 years ago
We already went there! I already told you anyone who has ever had an abortion CAN'T & SHOULDN'T be charged with ANYTHING because abortion is LEGAL right now!
Stop with the sillyness!
To be honest, I don't think it will ever be banned, but that won't stop me from speaking out about how I feel about it. I don't know how a woman could live with herself after one. I couldn't. Many woman develope mental illness's & depression (even suicide) b/c in the back of their minds, they know its wrong.
flyboymd82 2 years ago
Less than 1% of women have said they regret their abortions.
Suicide is more common after giving birth than after having an abortion. Should we outlaw giving birth because it causes women to devolop mental illnesses, depression, and commit suicide? If giving birth isn't bad, why does it cause women so many problems?
CrazyGothicChick 2 years ago 5
CrazyGothicloser, Your stats are total bullshit. Nice try moron.
flyboymd82 2 years ago
Very true. Abortion is much safer for the woman both physically and mentally. Being pregnant and giving birth is filled with risks.
Giving birth is "safer" than what it used to be thanks to medical technology. But most pro-lifers are anti science and believe that the world was created in 7 days so they would just screw things up
IronOxideCorset 2 years ago
@CrazyGothicChick You are wrong, I pesonaly know someone who just in recent weeks, after 23 years after the abortion, came to the father crying and said it was a wrong choice and it has "haunted" her every day of her life. I know several women who have said this. Just think of it, you kill your own child, then you have to live with the thought of that the rest of your life. You can NEVER change it once the baby is killed. It's your OWN child, why would you do that anyway! It's a human life.
habitualstudios 8 months ago
@CrazyGothicChick Where did you get this info? I'm writting a paper for school on this issue and most research shows the majority of women regret their abortions.
MuchachoChichoEl 3 weeks ago
If the religious right ever got what they wanted we would have blasphemy laws again, which would be an abrogation of the 1st amendment which thanks to the 14th Amendment applies to state and local government as well. When i was ten people in my hometown wanted to ban books, and they lobbied hard to keep an adult book store from opening but they failed but they keep trying.We're not off topic one can justify any action by claiming that it violates their beliefs or conflicts with their conscience
katvilani 2 years ago
You can find wacko's all day long katvilani, its not the average Conservative!! I can find wacko liberals who want to turn the USA into a Communist Country(Like Obama!! LOL).
Its not the average liberal! Stop using one or two nutjobs to paint religious people & conservatives. I don't beleive in banning contraceptives, but I DO believe that a fetus is a human being and killing it is murder. Once concieved, I believe its human & I'm not getting into the medical science that backs my belief.
flyboymd82 2 years ago
Prove Obama wants to turn this country communist... Please?
Why do you believe something that goes against the facts?
CrazyGothicChick 2 years ago
"Spread the wealth", "National Civlilian security force", "Cap & Trade", "Hate speech laws", "The Constitution is outdated", "Youth service corps".........need I say more?
flyboymd82 2 years ago
No pelosi, and the others do not want the fairness doctrine, quit repeating Faux news talking points. Really there are religious people on the right that if they got their way Homosexuality would be criminalized just as it was in many states once upon a time. They also want to forbid people from using contraception they will do so by loosely wording personhood laws making a fetus a person and forbidding any thing that might prevent implantation of the embryo. So who wants to force what on who
katvilani 2 years ago
Yeah, they DO! Type in "Democrats for the fairness doctrine"........there are 88 videos about it. It will SILENCE conservative talk radio, are you trying to tell me conservatives want it?? Come on!
I'm sure there are some religious wackjobs who want that, they are the fringe minority, kinda like Bill Ayers of the athiest left who "declared war on America". GOP condemns the wacko's from Kansas who protest soldiers funerals b/c "god hates fags".
I don't agree with banning contraception either.
flyboymd82 2 years ago
Gary North, Gary Potter, Paul weyrich, Pat robertson, Beverly Lahaye, and R J Rushdoony have all said some rather terrible things about our present form of government and it's neutralitry towards religion. They just don't go about it in as crazy a fashion as members of the Westboro Baptist Church, No one is forced to become a doctor, when one becomes a doctor one should realize that you might have to do something you don't like. If i get a job i can't tell my employer hey i don't want to do that
katvilani 2 years ago
and still hope to have a job.
katvilani 2 years ago
Never hear of any of those folks other than Roberson. I'm not a real religious guy, I just think aboriton is murder.
Of course you can refuse to do certain things as an employee! Do you think an neurosurgeon could be forced to do a heart transplant?? A Doctor must be TRAINED to do abortions! Not just any doctor can do them! Thats silly!
So your saying is if my lifelong dream were to be a Doctor, its squashed because Obama & YOU say I'm FORCED do abortions if I become one? Its sick!
flyboymd82 2 years ago
We are not talking about something you'd PREFER not to do b/c you "don't like it". We are talking about committing MURDER in someone like me's mind!
I know this is a silly analogy only because its illegal, but what if murder was NOT illegal? Like in Iran, murdering homosexuals is perfectly legal. How would you like to be a police officer in Iran & be ordered to hang a gay person?
Thats what it would be like for me If I were a Doctor and ordered to do an aborton! Can you see what I mean??
flyboymd82 2 years ago
Here in the United States, you can't force someone to perform an abortion.
Since abortion isn't murder and never will be (What pregnant woman says "I'm going to have an abortion because I want my fetus dead"?) It's done to end the pregnancy not done to hurt or kill the fetus.
CrazyGothicChick 2 years ago 2
Nobody wants to criminalize homosexuality & you know it. They just don't want the religious institution of marriage applied to it. I, and most conservatives are fine with "civil unions" which give gay couples all the rights of a married couple, just not in the eyes of the church.
I agree with you on hating people pushing thier "community standards" as far as sex shops, toys, & what you do in your own home etc!
We're WAY off topic here. Who did you know who wanted to ban books?
LOL!
flyboymd82 2 years ago
Civil unions actually don't give couples all the rights that marriage does. Please check things out before posting them as facts. :)
CrazyGothicChick 2 years ago 2
I know it was an analogy, but it was a poor one. And how dare you talk down to me as if because i disagree with you or maybe its because i'm a woman that i'm stupid or something. That is pretty arrogant of you. So should we allow doctors who disapprove of homosexuality or interracial marriage to not operate on a patient even if they are the only doctor available at the time, or should they be held criminally negligent for failing to render treatment. Please respond since this is a beter analogy
katvilani 2 years ago
I'm really impressed that Obama talked directly about abortion, and the "public conversation" about abortion, in his speech. With all the controversy, it would've been easy to side-step it. He took the honest route.
annaleighclark 2 years ago 2
The blonde woman who is anti-abortion, just through her rhetoric is proof that there is very little hope for finding common ground on the subject of abortion. As for Obama I don't believe that we should have conscience clauses that allow people to opt out of performing acts that violate their religious sensibilitites. Don't want to perform abortions, don't become a doctor or healthcare worker. Don't want to dispense contraceptives, don't become a pharmacist. It's that simple.
katvilani 2 years ago 4
Bingo.
BonzoGal1980 2 years ago
Your kidding right?
I should be FORCED to commit what I beleive is murder if my life's dream is to be a doctor & help heal people? I should be FORCED to do things against my will & moral code because YOU & others like you think its Okay?
You don't think there are plenty of other Doctors who will do Abortions?
How "tolerant" of you.
Wonder when have the pork industry will lobby to pass laws FORCING muslims to eat pork?
Liberals = the new, modern day fascists.
flyboymd82 2 years ago
So if a police officer or firefighter hates certain minorities they shouldn't have to risk their lives to protect or rescue them. A Police hates interracial couples and sees some people threatening or even harming such a couple and they get killed he shouldn't be held accountable because helping them would have violated his conscience. And i'm not a liberal, i used to call my self a conservative until that word came to mean an authoritarian who wants to control what you read, say and do.
katvilani 2 years ago
What?? Who are the "authoritarians"?? Who wants to FORCE people to do things against thier will here? Who wants to control whats said, read & heard? Who just banned Michael Savage from GB b/c they don't like what he says? Who wants to pass "hate speech laws"? Who wants to pass the "fairness doctrine"(AKA conservative silenceing law)? LIBERAL & DEMOCRATS DO!
Your analogy with police/fire is silly, they take an oath & swear to uphold the Constitution & laws & to help people, much like Docs.
flyboymd82 2 years ago
No it's not if it violates their religious ethics or rights of conscience should they have to render assistance to those they dislike or maybe even hate so much they believe they should be killed. The mathew sheppard act covers actions not speech, and i don't like censorship even of wrong ideas or objectionable speech. And i don't know of any democrat pushing the fairness doctrine. Conservatives however are keen on questioning the patriotism of those who ask questions
katvilani 2 years ago
Right we force people to have abortions, really i was speaking of authoritarians like those who want to criminalize homosexuality or what two or more consenting adults do in the privacy of their home or ban sex toys or adult book stores using the community standards arguments which basically boils down to you in the minority have only those rights we allow you to enjoy.Please don't tell me about authoritarians I grew up listening to people talk about liberty one moment and banning books the next
katvilani 2 years ago
Wow, where do I start?
I didn't talk down to you & I had NO idea your a woman! Geeze!
NO! Nobody should be able to kill or hurt ANYONE else b/c of their religious beliefs! Thats my point, nor should they be FORCED to kill due to your beliefs! A doctor takes a "NO HARM" oath. Never to harm anyone for any reason. That analogy is WAY off the subject.
We agree on not liking censorship, however Pelosi, Reid, Obama, Boxer, Fienstien, & many others want the fairness doctrine. NO conservatives do.
flyboymd82 2 years ago
And since when is eating pork the same as having a career in which you may face a situation you would rather not deal with. Very few doctor's learn to do abortions anymore because they're afraid of wackos with guns and a message from god targeting them. How tolerant of you calling people fascists without the vaguest idea of what fascism is and isn't. So if abortion is murder and there's no statute of limitations on murder what should be done with all those who have had abortions.
katvilani 2 years ago
I didn't say it was the same thing. Its an analogy & is the same principal, forcing someone to do something which offends that persons moral/religious code! Get it?
There are many more wackos on the left who think pouring blood on a woman in a fur coat is rational, yet you think anyone who protests outside an abortion clinic is an extremeist?
Abortion IS murder, however is not considered murder by law at this time. Nothing should happen to those who have had abortions! I'm not a nut!
flyboymd82 2 years ago
So forcing a parent to seek medical attention for their child when they are sick if it goes against their religious convictions is wrong, even if allowing the child to die means that they have commited murder. So we should allow people to kill their daughters for soiling their families honor based on their interpertation of their religious scripture.There are extremists on both left and right and maybe even center. And how do you know the number of extremists in each group did you take a poll?
katvilani 2 years ago
"Abortion IS murder"
No, it's not, dumbass, murder is SOLELY the UNLAWFUL killing (abortion is legal) of a human being (a fetus is NOT a person, if you think it is, you must be as smart as one yourself!) with malice aforethought (it's not malice, either), there's NO other way to slice and dice it. It even SPECIFICALLY says in the American Heritage Dictionary, UNLAWFUL killing.
Headhunter004 2 years ago
ABORTION IS MURDER ...
pellerinhue 2 years ago
Abortion isn't murder. You don't help yourself by misusing a word right after the definition is posted. That only makes you seem less than smart.
Abortion is legal (so it isn't unlawful) and it's not done on a desire to harm anyone (its done to end the pregnancy, so its not with malice).
Abortion is defined as "arrest of development" and "the procedure in which a fetus is removed from a woman".
A fetus is a parasite. So why not call the removal of other parasites murder, too?
CrazyGothicChick 2 years ago 2
Abortions are done mostly for non-medical reasons. As the abortion industry itself admits on the website of the Alan Guttmacher Institute, "[T]hree-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner."
angelshoulders 2 years ago
hey angel, you don't have to have an abortion. Don't go around telling other women what to do and what not to do. Your biased info. and scare tactics are unacceptable.
Mem4289 2 years ago
If you dont want an aborition, dont have one. What of the poor person from a 3rd-World country *wanted* to sell herself to me. I would pay several $ to her family, and my "slave" would come live in my home & work for me & be taken care of for the rest of her life. You have a problem with that? Well, I don't want to hear about it, because, as you said, people should "make up their own minds."
angelshoulders 2 years ago
wtf are you talking about? lol you make no sense.
Mem4289 2 years ago
So because they are done for non-medical reasons the government should be able to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term. If a woman cannot be trusted to make her own decisions regarding a pregnancy why allow them any say at all about anything in their lives.
katvilani 2 years ago 2
".The abortion-rights folks know it, the anti-abortion folks know it, and so probably, does everyone else. One of the facts of abortion is that women enter abortion clinics to kill their fetuses. It is a form of killing ...you're ending a life." Ron Fitzsimmons, Executive Director, National Coalition of Abortion Providers, New York Times, 26 Feb. 1997. President Obama's pro-murder agenda is the most aggressive America has ever seen.America will not reject abortion until America SEES Abortion
angelshoulders 2 years ago
I absolutely agree with you!
witchbippy 2 years ago 2
Thank you! I just think government should butt out and leave women to make their own choice. If we can't be trusted to control our own bodies, we can't trusted period.
katvilani 2 years ago 3
I agree.
It's like my favorite shirt says, "If you can't trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with a child?".
CrazyGothicChick 2 years ago 2
Thank you, as i've said before i personally disapprove of abortion but it's the decision of the woman who is pregnant. It's not my decision nor should it be the governments decision. THe choice belongs to the woman.
katvilani 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Abortions are done mostly for non-medical reasons. As the abortion industry itself admits on the website of the Alan Guttmacher Institute, "[T]hree-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner."
angelshoulders 2 years ago
He is doing what he said he would do. Yes, the reversal of the ban on money for foreign abortions that President Obama signed is a red flag and the tip of the iceberg. Obama Promised CHANGE and HOPE. "Where there is LIFE there is HOPE" and signing this Mexico City Pro-Abortion death warrant approving that our tax dollars pay for millions of 3rd world children to be aborted worldwide is definitely a betrayal of the trust that many people like myself have placed in him.
angelshoulders 2 years ago
fetuses aren't children.
Mem4289 2 years ago 3
You're correct fetuses are potential children, although statistically speaking the vast majority will if not aborted be born. They are still potential children until birth. If a fetus is given full human rights it can only be at the expense of the mother, a being who is physically dependent as in still in the womb if granted full human rights those rights may eventually conflict with the mothers rights. who gets to choose whose rights are more important the mother or the state?.
katvilani 2 years ago 3
Sad some people won't even try to compromise. Obama is trying to please a very diverse country, and that's a lot of pressure under one man. I applaud him for not only taking on the challenge, but having sensible answers.
Can we have choices and life? YES WE CAN!
peacexlovexstardust 2 years ago 2
2 Million adoptions, 6 million abortions, you do the math.
glitterjulia2 2 years ago
What I don't understand is how can anyone call two people yelling at each other a "debate"? Seriously, newshows needs to work on their "debates" and have these talking heads bring in some serious information that would really shut these people down. Bring in solid information stating that sex ed leads to fewer unwanted pregnancies, catch blondie on her Freudian slips, etc.
ChelseaHysteria 2 years ago 4