WW2 - Chiang Kai Shek

[Vampiric59]

alot of 50 cent party here

[ImperialGuard9001]

@Verbeke7 Chiang wasnt a fascist.

[Verbeke7]

@ImperialGuard9001

Look up the "Blue Shirts Society". It was a secret branch of the KMT. They may not have been as bad as Mao and the reds, but they were still fascist.

[493175001]

@Verbeke7

You're saying this as if the Blue Shirt Society were bad.

[IamGaijin]

Chiang Kai shek is a sellout, Taiwan's current leadership is selling out to China, and China is selling out to enormous profits.

Corruption controls the people if they don't learn the game, isn't this the game in America. Masses stay in the dark while the rich elite induce the masses to borrow from the bank just to own a house, which is losing value year by year.

Karl Marx was right, the proletariat will rise in America.

[aussieblackhawk123]

chiang supported the wrong people, rich businessmen and rich familes..rather than supporting the peasants...also the guns and money he recieveed from the allies..he stored it away to fight the communists after the japanese treat was over......but still chiang is the rightful leader of modern china

[BobBlobOfFancyPants]

@aussieblackhawk123 if he didnt support the rich people and didnt store all that crap fighting his own country he wouldve won the japs...!

[8mmzzs]

@BobBlobOfFancyPants The commies didn't feel like fighting the Japanese either (they were hoarding equipment and manpower too). And the Chinese would have not won against the Japanese in any instance. They were very weak when compared to the well trained and equipped Japanese (who had all the tank, planes, ships... Japan, duh).

[bobagopaa]

lol chiang was an corrupt idiot who didn't even fight the Japanese

[Noobssuckass300]

the chinese will never become the slaves of the west

[BobBlobOfFancyPants]

@Noobssuckass300 I second that!

[TheSalmonfan]

@fasfsdfasd Chiang Kai-Shek had many chances to make peace with Japan during the Sino-Japanese war. Even as late as 1937, CKS could still have done so..at least 19 millions Chinese lives would have been saved.

[diwrites]

neither the communists nor the nationalists were virtuous governments/leaders. america backed the KMT gov only because they were NOT communist, but the KMT gov was leading china into the ground any. communism is an ideal that works on the basis of the idea that mankind is virtuous and unselfish. this is not true.

in addition, when chiang kai shek went to taiwan, he massacred hundreds, if not thousands of people and imposed martial law. the aborginal people have dwindled to nothing. did you know?

[viresperadversum]

chiang kai-shek and the kuomintang committed some atrocities, but then again every authoritarian rule is the same and chiang's rule was certainly not as bad as stalin etc.

saying this though, they were the better alternative over the communists. the commies ruined china and sent the country backward. imagine where china would be today if they had had a competent government.

under KMT rule, taiwan has flourished into being one of the most liberal, stable and prosperous democracies in asia

[Balencian]

@viresperadversum

I can't agree with you more, Chaing Kai Shek might have hijacked the democratic government of Republic of China and Kuomintang but it is in their doctrine that they strive for human rights, freedom and good way of life. This is why Chiang's regime was not meant to last. On the contrary, Maoism doctrine involves the brainwashing and systematic genocide of certain groups of population, and it is stressed it must be a dictatorship. PRC must completely renounced Mao to improve.

[pakjai]

@viresperadversum "under KMT rule, taiwan has flourished into being one of the most liberal, stable and prosperous democracies in asia" Well, Taiwan is a small Island in comparison to China. China alone has the world's largest population, many cultures and religions and many more cities to look after. I'm not too sure about KMT flourishing China if they were to be in control. The difference in scale is too big.

[viresperadversum]

@pakjai ok well under the KMT and democratisation in the early 90s, Taiwan has become an economic powerhouse. at the same time in the 90s, china was still doing nothing. at least Taiwan and the KMT had the initiative to act and increase prosperity.

[MrDesiballer]

exactly, no way could capitalism or democracy fix the chinese problems of the early 40's and 50's, it would be much like the early weimar republic in germany after world war 1.

[Mogedon92]

Chiang's pragmatic ideology is responsible for the death of Sun Yat-sen's three People's Principles. He sacrificed democracy for a superficial implementation of people's livelihood, which, in turn ended in the defections due to inflation of his bourgeoisie followers, and his demise in 1949 at the hands of the Communists. Instead of introducing parliamentary government, he lent closer to dictatorship. Mao was more nationalist than Chiang ever was, and won because he understood the Chinese people

[Balencian]

@Mogedon92

Mao was not nationalistic, but he do understood the Chinese people (notably the peasants) more than Chiang. Throughout WW2, if you did serious research, you will notice for the whole time the Chinese communists were expanding their power by killing other Chinese armies and civilians. Do you know about the Yan'an Rectification, or that the Hundred Regiment Campaign were launched only when Peng Dehuai disobyed Mao? Mao's victory is actually a very dark chapter of Chinese history.

[MsKilogram]

i personally think this guy was the one who fought all invaders. Mao came in very last minute and claim credit. I have the utmost respect for this guy

[mazerrackham001]

There is an interesting series of articles being written at the American Decembrist website about the rise of communism in China and Chiang Kai-Shek's resistance to it.

[jigsaw99]

Chiang Kai-shek is a dicator who killed millions just like Mao. Both are evil by their own counts. Had Chiang stayed in China he would of had the genocides of the millions of communist supporters. Instead he comes to Taiwan to have his own genocides on the poor Taiwanese.

[Balencian]

@jigsaw99

If Mao didn't chased Nationalists to Taiwan, there will be no genocide because Chiang would never have an excuse to take power again, and hence, no genocide. If you haven't notice, the KMT leadership under Li Zongren actually force Chiang to abdicate in 1949. It is the communist victory that caused unneccessary death. That said, with a ROC victory over the Chicom thugs, there will be no Korean War or Vietnam War, as USSR would not have China as a staging ground to wreck havoc.

[gsvkck]

CKS was a good economic leader, but a horrible military one. Mao on the other hand was great Military leader but couldn't be counted on for any economic sense. Both men were flawed, I just wish people could look at them as humans and not worship them as gods.

[DeathlyReaper217]

@gsvkck

They were Nationalist heroes. Mongolia has Genghis Khan, Romania has Vlad the Impaler

And I admire them as humans but it's hard not to put them on one level above others.

[kutielai]

chiang is a stupid dictator, bastard, moron

[wilbru89]

@kutielai . End Mao a crimal and killer dictator !

[zcarenow]

i actually met chiang kai shek. i was only 6yrs old, but hey.

[childmolester100]

The guy wasn't great at all

[hemingway2407]

and in taipei they have a memorial hall building and an underground train station named after cks. that's like the germans having an adolf hitler memorial hall

[hemingway2407]

chiang kai-shek = a deluded, corrupt, elitist, incompetent, gangster loser. you have to feel sorry for the people of taiwan when this 'unwanted house guest' moved in. talk about over staying your welcome - this facist plunged taiwan into martial law for almost 40 years. he was in war and politics for his own benefit - money and power. in recent years, young people in taiwan have come to learn the truth about him and refer to him as chiang kai-shit. great leader? can you tell me?

[8mmzzs]

@hemingway2407 pretty sure all the poor people in China love to work for a fraction of the US workers and the corruption that plagues the government. Anyways, they can't see any of these comments or make their own thought since they the CCP dictates for them what to think and banning youtube and facebook, oh well. At least Taiwan gets all of those.

[blackedoute46]

Chinese Nationalist Pride.. forever and ever. If KMT taiwan declare independence on Taiwan, mainland China might think twice about attacking, but if the DPP declares independence all taiwanese will disappear.

[pakjai]

@blackedoute46 Nope China won't want to attack its own people. It will do both side no good. It's like saying the America should bomb Hawaii and see what happens.

[blackedoute46]

you people must remember, the flag of taiwan is the chinese nationalist flag. the taiwanese farmers didn't design it.

we chinese nationlist are the ones who made taiwan today. for all those that have "taiwan" pride, understand chinese history first.

[vinavon]

Well, you don't believe that you are the only one to understand chinese history.... and we also know about the not so great deeds of mainland Chinese with respect to Taiwanese. So don't teach us!!!

[ClassicTVMan81]

While we know Chiang Kai-shek is the most widely-known transliteration ("Jiang Jieshi" being the Pinyin Mandarin equivalent); in full Cantonese some people transliterate his name as "Jeung Gaaisek." But what about "Kong Kai-shek," for Kong is the Cantonese equivalent of Chiang/Jiang? His other name, "Chiang Chung-cheng," would be "Kong Jungjing" in Cantonese, right?

[fisher1277]

Some people said that chiang tried to kill all of the "Taiwanese" are with no evidence to prove their words. that's irresponsible and intention malevolence!

[blackedoute46]

Chiang tried to kill all the "taiwanese" in taiwan so people in taiwan will call themselves Chinese in the future.

[Balencian]

@blackedoute46 Chiang did done alot of immoral killings on taiwan, but he didnt done a genocide target on the taiwanese. Alot of Chinese that follow him to taiwan were also killed, its more like a series of political murders, white terror to its maximum extent. If you are referring to the 228 incident, it was ordered by Chen Yi, not Chiang, although you can say Chiang is partly responsible for not giving out clear orders.

[sexpistols8699]

Chiang Kai sheck is the real hero of china not fucking Mao Zedong. I only recognize nationalist china as the real china

[wargod2009]

Here here to that!

[basphiladoer]

fuck the communists, chiang was a great leader bringing China to glory. the fucking communists ruined the country. fuck the soviets fuck marxis-leninist ideology

[gn02275737]

yes!!!you are very right!!!Are you chinese?I'm chinese,I only consider the Republic Of china that is the real china in the world!!! Mr. Mao just a dog!!!and the KMT is the greatest party in china!!!

[Zergcerebrates]

Why do you think the Chinese people supported the Communist in the 1940s? The Nationalist were corrupted, think about it if it was so great why would people go for Mao and not Chiang? The Nationalist only achieved progress after the 80s. China's communist gov(if its still called that) is doing a pretty good job considering that they turn China today from an agrarian society into a economic, political, and military powerhouse.

[Shangha1]

And the PRICE for this powerhouse ?

[GretzkyTheWonderDog]

@basphiladoer

Don't forget that bastard Harry Truman! He also fucked over Chiang.

[TheGreenSmoke]

real talk, chiang kai shek was a dick and acted like a dictator. history shows that he didn't care about china as much as he cared about his presidency in china. he refused the advice from an american general telling him to replace the incompetent officers in his army and would rather slaughter his own countrymen than fight the japanese.

[zzz9818798]

go fuck youself !!!

[TheGreenSmoke]

I speak the truth. Go read up on some modern chinese history and you'll see that china was really fucked up back then. mao actually talked to the nationalists about having elections in china after WW2 and let the chinese people decide which government they would choose. chiang kai shek refused and would rather continue on with civil war. seriously though, what would compel such a leader to rather slaughter his own people instead of having elections? I know, a dictator will.

[zzz9818798]

stop say shit thing you CCP dog !!!

[TheGreenSmoke]

hahaha, I'm not a CCP dog.

I'm a fucking American; my hatred for communism, fascism, socialism, and most other "isms" courses through my veins! what I do love is freedom, and the KMT never provided that to the majority of the chinese people. the CCP still sucks, but atleast they did not oppress the common people. why else did they defeat the nationalists?

[Whatever5561]

@TheGreenSmoke I really dont blame you but in truth KMT was the SOLE provider of Freedom to the Chinese people. Nobody else did. The CCP doesnt oppress the common people? Are you kidding? Ask any Chinese person who is 40+ they will tell you how the CCP caused a famine from 1959-61 that killed at least 50million people. Cultural Revolution killed 20million people. All the other movements I dont even need to mention. As with CKS at least he turned Taiwan rich and one of the "Asian Tigers".

[ManjuSu]

@Whatever5561 I prefer China like it is, China was suffering from poverty, separatism and famine under the KMT and there were even warlords that wanted autonomy. Is this what Freedom provides to the Chinese people when China was under KMT-rule? And what you've just mentioned was caused by Mao, not CCP; he was facing opposition in the Party so he tried to strengthen his position by launching such movements. If the KMT managed to govern China to prosperity, then CCP shouldn't have existed.

[pahtai11365]

@ManjuSu You are so naive. Japanese government were trying to pay war retribution to China after WWII and Communist China has been established, but Mao turns down. Why? because allegedly, Mao says, if it weren't for the Japanese invasion, CCP would by wiped out by KMT long ago. Japanese decimate the KMT's power and bring extreme poverty and discontent to the populace. Most peasants supports CCP because after the war, they were so poor and communists promise them paradise and utopia under CCP.

[Whatever5561]

@TheGreenSmoke look, if you think Modern Chinese History is anything to go by then you really are stupidly ignorant. It was Chiang Kai-shek that wanted elections and new consitution which he implemented in 1948. Mao was the one that refused to have elections and decided to slaughter his own people. You really are stupid if you think Modern Chinese History is anything to go by.

[TheGreenSmoke]

dude, chiang kai shek had to be kidnapped for the 2nd united front to happen.

[key303]

@TheGreenSmoke

Stop being a who believe CCP's

[Whatever5561]

@TheGreenSmoke Your a dick for listening to lies about the Generalissimo. You do realise that all of Modern Chinese History that you read on the web or whatever is FAKE? the American General you're talking about is Stillwell, so disliked by even his own staff that they nicknames him Vinegar Joe at heart also a communist sympathiser, you really think anyone could work with him?

[1macboo]

@basphiladoer LOL..he was a monster

[pahtai11365]

@1macboo Yes, maybe he is, but Mao is far worst. At least, KMT at the time has a direct presidential election at the time even the civil war rages on. At least there is a democracy going on, but Mao?!? He kill far more with his movements. People got wiped out by political struggled and famine by his wrong domestic policy. China falls behind at least 40 years under CCP rule and only catches up after Den Xiao Ping's open door policy in 80s.

[1macboo]

@pahtai11365

mao being far worst is saying very littel isn't it? The White terror was on Chaing and the blood of thousands as well...

[Balencian]

@1macboo

Actually the white terror is really nothing compare to the Cultural Revolution; although both is bad. The problem about Mao's cultural revolution is that he mindfucked you. Do you know how he execute his political enemy, he will tell your 7 yr old son to shoot you? Tell Students to beat the shit out of their teacher. Would Chiang do something like that? Even if he want to, other ppl in KMT would stop him, but in CCP, absolutely no one do shit about Mao.

[1macboo]

@Balencian

I'm sure the cultural revolution wos indeed worse, in sheer numbers if nothing else, Mao was a horrible leader and a dictator with no regard for human rights. Chaing was also a terrible dictator who mya not have been as much of a monster but....really the Chineese people suffered under both.

[Balencian]

@1macboo

Yes, they suffered both but really...the mindfucking is more worse...Chaing didn't teach kids turn on their parents, he won't kill you just because you are educated (That is what Mao did, and if you can read Chinese, you will notice the literature in HK and Taiwan is so different in spirit with PRC because one generation of scholar in China was literally wiped out by Mao). I agree both are terrible people, but I think Chiang is actually the lesser evil of the two.

[pakjai]

@Balencian I also agree with you in reagrds that both Mao and Chiang was bad. However, if China was to fall under Chiang, it will just turn China into a puppet of the West and there's no gaurantee that there will be social stability for China. Mao had a good starting point and united China, however his regime failed and what was to follow was extremely regretable. Deng Xiao Peng was the one who turned it around and the modenrization of China kicked started from there.

[Balencian]

@pakjai (pt. 1)

Mao is actually a puppet of Stalin. It was recorded that he idolize him so much that he repeatedly called the Soviet Union his motherland and the Korean War is actually fought for the USSR, not China (Many CCP leadership including Zhou Enlai agreed to this). The reason for the Sino-Soviet split after Stalin died is because Mao disagree how the USSR denounce Stalin after his death.

[Balencian]

@pakjai (pt. 2)

It is actually a myth that Chiang Kai-Shek is an American puppet. He is a power monger and he only sided with the Americans when he see fit (not necessarily for the well being of China but just for him to held onto power), which the Americans found rather irritating. In fact, Americans helped Mao escaped from Chiang during the late 1940s because they wanted to punished Chiang for his insolence. We all knew today that the plan backfired on the Americans pretty badly.

[Balencian]

@1macboo

Most importantly, I needed to point out while Chiang is a very cruel man, he promoted education in Taiwan and do allowed limited criticism. There was an ex-wife actually try to publish a book about he having STDs, he simply got the book banned. Do that to Mao, you will definitely get killed, in fact, Mao actually got a few of his ex-wives purposely killed so he can marry a new one so he look like less of an adulterer to the masses. Chiang at least is moral enough not to do that.

[1macboo]

@Balencian OK. I give you Chaing was better than Mao. But my concern is that in comparing the two we are careful not to make Chaing out to be heroic in anyway.

[Balencian]

@1macboo

I am not even going debate who is a hero or not (esp there are so many subjective ops and d/standard), I am just going to view a historical figure in a holistic light. The fact is Chiang is a mass murderer, indifference to his subordinates' corruption and hijacked a democratic government for his own means. Yet, he himself is not corrupted by money, did not ever plan/ launch genocide on his people, and did promoted education successfully.

[Balencian]

@1macboo

And please do not get me wrong, I am not an admirer of Chiang or the KMT. It is stupid to think China will simply turn democratic when KMT returns to power in mainland China. The problem about China's democracy progress is the single party trend, which Chiang selfishly promoted. Unless most people lost the mentality that they should be loyal to the country instead of a political party, the common ppl's lives will not improved. For this reason, I also regarded Taiwan's DPP as a failure.

[Balencian]

@Balencian

Sorry for the type, "I meant loyal to the country instead of a political party", that was a stupid error of mine.

[MrDesiballer]

What are you talking about?? without communism half of your brethren would be dead or dying, you think capitalism would have been better for china? your stupid!

[rickbar123]

@basphiladoer Fuck you. Chiang got his ass beat by Jap. Mao free China.

[hongsediguo1985]

@rickbar123

不要丢人了啦。。。抗日确实是老蒋打的，当然红军在敌后也有一定­的作用，正面战场基本上都是国军在拼命。

[TheSalmonfan]

@rickbar123 Mao freed China? What do you mean? As of today, China is still not free. Nearly 1.4 billion Chinese are being enslaved in their own country. Even Nobel Prize winner LXB is in jail, how could you expect ordinary Chinese citizens have any freedom?

[rickbar123]

@TheSalmonfan He freed China from Japan and Shek.

[BobBlobOfFancyPants]

@rickbar123 he didnt focus fighting on Japanese... he focused in killing his own race...

[rickbar123]

@BobBlobOfFancyPants fuck off ya right wing stooge

[BobBlobOfFancyPants]

@rickbar123 you mad?

[GSPatton89]

@basphiladoer here here!

[jasonalexjohn]

@basphiladoer agreed communist make no fucking sene what soever if i could id bomb china and rebuild it and make it right

[AtheismCentral]

@basphiladoer

He opressed the people you evil nationalist!

[BobBlobOfFancyPants]

@basphiladoer Damn Capatilist!

[IamGaijin]

@basphiladoer you're an idiot, Chiang was a greedy pig, Communists ruined the country, looks they're a world power now. Yes, they enslave its people, but what countrymen aren't enslaved by an ideology made by someone who wanted to control you.

[ispd123]

He killed many Taiwanese in his life time....cant say hez really a great man

[PIGTHEGOOD]

Chiang Kai Shek is a great man。

he lead china won ww2

[thejin666]

@PIGTHEGOOD- ARE YOU KIDDING ME chaing kai shek was worse than hitler! it is obvious that you are an idiot who knows absolutely nothing about chinese history.

[PIGTHEGOOD]

你這個死外國佬 少跟我說中國歷史

中國歷史我可是比你瞭解太多

你只是個被共產黨洗腦的無知蠢貨

thejin666 you retarded

[gn02275737]

沒錯 共產黨都是些廢物 垃圾 雜碎 國民黨才是最棒的政黨!!!

[MarxistRunescaper]

Chiang Kai Shek was a fucking little dick who was responsible for 100,000+ lives killing innocent communists trying to escape from his tyranny.

[DaimothCL]

Mao is responsible for millions of lives, in comparison. Not saying Chiang is perfect, but Mao was.. ugh.

[truth2011]

Alfred Graf von Schlieffen who was a Chief Staff of the German Army planned the pre-emptive attack to France . It was beginning of WW1. Alexander von Falkenhausen who was a General Staff Officer of Nazis planned the pre-emptive attack to Japanese in Shanghai for China

.And Chinese dictator Generalissimo Chiang Kai-Shek carried out the invasion with　von Falkenhausen in Shanghai Aug　13th,1937. That was beginning of Japanese-Sino War2. sdh-fact(dot)com