Let The Bible Speak - "Is Once-Saved-Always-Saved True?"

[newj34]

God does not toss any of his children away. If your a child of god & sin becomes a part of your life...God will rebuke you. He chastens those he loves. Their is a sin even unto death. Both david & baylum came very close to finding that out. Both were very godly men who found themselves living in sin. God was going to kill both of them had they not repented. If the law ever trumps the cross we are in a world of trouble.

[Judah191966]

So many people that say they are Christians believe this Im convinced its because they love their sin...I hope Im wrong and they will come to believe the truth soon.It breaks my heart I see sooo many in the church taking it easy having fun with even in your face sins and thinking they dont have to repent to follow Jesus Christ the deceptions of today are getting bigger and bigger We need a move of God to help wake them up so many are sleeping I love them I am afraid for them but they dont listen

[disciplesofthecross]

It is ONLY our spirit that has been born again and received eternal life, NOT our flesh.. yet. Our flesh is still subject to sin and death, but our "redeemed" spirit is secure in Christ. It is impossible to become unborn again simply by sinning in the FLESH.

[tfkweapon321]

unfortunately, i would say it is possible to loose your salvation, i would know sigh, when i first accepted christ i was addicted to pornography, for years after accepting christ i would struggle with my addiction, i hit a hard part in my life and i was just so tired of struggling with my sin so i gave in to my sin. i used to always feel gods love in the past when i would repent. ive tryed to come back to god now, but i dont feel anything from him anymore, no matter how much i cry out to him.

[mt7able]

@tfkweapon321 dont give up hope brother i too used to struggle with this sin and wonder whether or not God loved me and went through a rough patch in my life but the truth is that He is just waiting with open arms to embrace u bc if we confess our sins He is FAITHFUL and just to forgive us and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. Focus on His love and His truth, dont allow the devil to deceive you. u can find strength in fellowship and accountability... u dont have to do this alone. Tim. 2:13

[mobileauto]

Its amazing that with all the black and white verses that prove you can lose your salvation people still won't believe. Their ears must be raw with all that scratching.

[spellbiff]

Romans 8:30 is known as the golden chain of redemption. Notice the chain, predestined, called, justified, glorified. The righteousness of Christ is imputed to the believer. Our sins were imputed to Christ. Heb 10:12 Christ offered for ALL TIME a single sacrafice for sins. We cannot "merit" our salvation. The ONLY way you can be in the presence of the Father, is to be justified by Christ's righteousness, atonement for all sin, and resurrection. He made Him who knew no sin to BE sin.

[droptozro]

@spellbiff

I don't know what you're pointing out in Romans 8, but I know based on what I've read---"elect" doesn't mean the same thing you and I define it as today. I'd have to look into it again to combat it though, it's been a while.

I think you may be mis-understanding "imputed" also. Many people think it means "transfer"... and that's not a Biblical definition. It's "reckoned," or "esteemed"--at the moment of salvation you are esteemed by the blood of Christ as though you've ...

[droptozro]

@spellbiff ... never sinned. Also, Him to "be sin" is a metaphor. Jesus didn't become a sinner on the cross, otherwise He wouldn't have been the spotless lamb. It's just a metaphor as in Israel when the lamb was sacrificed for the remission of sins. At that point, when Jesus' blood is used to cover a repentant sinner--that sinner is esteemed as though he's never sinned. I would point out the parable of the unforgiving servant, if you believe one's record cannot be re-instated also.

[droptozro]

@spellbiff

last thing for now.

Also, I don't disagree with Ephesians 2... but I believe that is speaking of our initial salvation. As often Paul was being followed by Judaizers to convert Gentiles to the Mosaic law.  We have to lay hold on our final inheritance also, only by the grace of God are we able though.

I'm not sure if you're stating all future sins have been forgiven also--because if we cannot "sin" by definition, then why would the epistle of 1 John be written to warn against sin?

[spellbiff]

@droptozro I think the epistle of 1 John warns against sin because it hinders us in our sanctification or walk with Christ. It interrupts the cycle of communion with God for His glory. If we ask forgiveness, he is faithful and Just to forgive us. In 1 John 5:13, John writes."I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may KNOW that you HAVE eternal life."It is the grace of God through the Holy Spirit, that will get us to the point of obtaining our final reward.

[droptozro]

@spellbiff

Stay strong and contend for the faith brother! God Bless you

[spellbiff]

@droptozro I have enjoyed our studies together. You have certainly showed a heart that is friendly, willing to study together, and a heart that desires to search God's word with dilligence. Although our theology might differ in areas, our toiling over the word is for God's glory. We can end this study for now, and if you ever want to contact me again, feel free to do so. Take care brother, and may the Lord be with you.

[rlmelco]

‎"You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, BEWARE LEST YOU ALSO FALL FROM YOUR OWN STEADFASTNESS, being led away with the error of the wicked;" - 2 Peter 3:17

[rlmelco]

"Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son." - 2 John 1:8-9

[disciplesofthecross]

"And I give unto them eternal life, and THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." (John 10:28) Does God lie???

[rlmelco]

@disciplesofthecross This is true to those who do not willfully sin, who remain faithful, righteous, and continually repent. Ezekiel 18:24 says, "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

[MichaelDGarrett]

If you are saved the only way can lose your salvation is you willingly give it up. The Holy Ghost will Keep you. If you die in your sin you were never saved

[droptozro]

@MichaelDGarrett

That's not true about dying in sins means you were never saved, read Ezekiel 18. You can clearly be righteous all your life and walk with God, and then turn to wickedness in the end and die, all your righteousness will be forgotten. Don't die in your sin, repent and stay on Him.

If that were true, then there is no reason for all the warnings of Paul/Peter/John/Jesus about not falling away, not being deceived... God is not an author of confusion.

[MichaelDGarrett]

@droptozroThe Holy Ghost will keep you (Convict your spirit to not sin) all you gotta do is pray for it &live right,to the best of your ability &the Holy Ghost will do the rest. Most times when we sin we do so knowingly, which means we had a choice. Read 1 Corinthians 10:13. Romans 8:30-39, there are many others. All I'm really saying is that we as Christians shouldn't live our lives in fear but in confidence because we are secure in our salvation.

[spellbiff]

@droptozro 1 John 2:19..says in reference to those who depart from the faith, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us; but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." ...The question people need to ask is this...By who's power do we persevere? Our own, or by the Holy Spirit? I say the Holy Spirit. It is God who sanctifies us. but.."a confession doesnt mean a conversion."

[spellbiff]

@droptozro 1 John 2:19..says in reference to those who depart from the faith, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us; but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." ...The question people need to ask is this...By who's power do we persevere? Our own, or by the Holy Spirit? I say the Holy Spirit. It is God who sanctifies us. but.."a confession doesnt mean a conversion."

[droptozro]

@spellbiff

1 John 2:19 is in reference to the Gnostic teachers/sects---who never believed Jesus was in the flesh or possibly even Christ(1 John 2:22), hence they were never saved from the beginning---but to say this applies to all professing Christians who fall away would be a ridiculous proof-text. Of course if they don't believe Jesus was the lamb sacrificed from the beginning they were never saved... how could you be?

It is of God, we could do nothing on our own.

[spellbiff]

@droptozro Verse 19 is a blanket statement. John used it talking of gnostic teachers/and sects but is a truth that applies to anyone who rejects Christ. A "Christian" and "professing Christian" are two different things. Many believe that Christ is who he says he is, and desire His forgiveness, but the refuse to repent. A Born-again Christan CANNOT fall away. They are kept and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and progressively sanctified(growing in holiness) until they are finally glorified.

[droptozro]

@spellbiff

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[b] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory

I presume this is what you're referring to--but I again believe you're reading into Scripture your beliefs. There is actually another place in Scripture that the exact...

[droptozro]

@spellbiff ...word "sealed" is used in another phrase--and that seal was broken.

Also, I believe it says the Holy Spirit is the "guarantee," not the redemption following. Using secular terms, the Holy Spirit is like a down payment on the final inheritance. Such as a down payment on a car is, until paid off. One must persevere to the end(pay off the car) to gain such inheritance(ownership).

If you're right--then we were forced into salvation--and future sins are forgiven, can you prove that?

[spellbiff]

@droptozro ..(1:13 con't).were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,(14) who is the guarantee of OUR INHERITANCE until we take posession of it. Read Ephesians 2:8-10.

[spellbiff]

@droptozro I agree, we can do nothing on our own. salvation is of the Lord.

[HermitintheRain]

Who is doing the saving? Is man's will doing the saving, or is Christ doing the saving? If man is doing the saving, than man has every reason to question the certainty of being saved. If Christ is the one saving, as the Author and Perfector of salvation, to then state that one can lose that salvation is to make Christ a failure to save to the uttermost. No matter how Scripture is wrangled to say otherwise.

[HermitintheRain]

@HermitintheRain Salvation is all of the Lord, every jot and tittle of it. Whom God has elected to save, God will not fail to save. To imply one can lose their salvation is to imply that salvation is the work of man, and not the work of God. We both can't be right. One of us is a liar. One of us is preaching a gospel that Paul says is accursed. Which gospel glorifies God? Which gospel puts the glory of salvation in man's hands?

[leiraalbuero16]

once saved always saved is true, the bible teaches this doctrine, read John 10:28, Jude 23, 1John 5:13, Romans 8:1, 1Peter 1. These are just few passages that teach eternal security. Those who believe that salvation can be lost believes that they kept their own salvation and not God. A true believer in Christ will not continue in sin, because the Holy Spirit lives in him and he will hate sin because he is now a child of God

[xXLogicalArgumentsXx]

Salvation is not a one time event. Going to heaven requires three things: justification, sanctification, and glorification. One is an event, one is a process, and one is a future event. It would be logically impossible for anyone to attain salvation this side of heaven, so technically OSAS is correct. However, the implications of the wording are horribly inaccurate.

[6153calme]

If once saved always saved, then explain why Satan and his angels will never get back to heaven. Explain 2Pet 2:4 was not he (Satan) saved when he was in heaven. If an angel is not OSAS and were already in heaven; why do you think we sinful humans will be saved eternally not matter what? Read all of 2Pet. If you still believe what you believe aftrwrd you are not following the script.

[xXLogicalArgumentsXx]

@6153calme

I cannot explain the rules of the Demons, they follow a different law than us humans

The problem with OSAS is that it tells us that God gives us the freewill to follow Him, yet no freewill to leave Him

ill digress

OSAS implications are terrible inaccurate, though true

Salvation is an ongoing process - Angels discontinued that process thus were cast out of Heaven

I believe we both agree that Salvation is not locked into place, and you just misread my previous post

anyways...later

[6153calme]

xxlogical

How can something inaccurate but true? I may hav misread pre post but not this one. If OSAS is true how will those angels get back to heaven, and what/who is Hell reserved for?

[xXLogicalArgumentsXx]

what i believe is that OSAS TECHNICALLY is correct, though it is very misleading in its word usage

Salvation is a ONGOING process, meaning you must continue living your life as a Christian and for YHWH to have salvation

but again the implications of OSAS is terribly misleading, if your talking about if you can lose your faith in Jesus then yes that is possible

Again i am not sure what rules the Angels go by, but humans who dont accept Jesus Christ and die go to Hell

[daytonohiofellowship]

the Context of 2 Peter is

"FALSE TEACHERS" not true Christians, Come on teacher you know better than ripping things out of context!

[daytonohiofellowship]

I can just read Verses and make the bible say what I want it to too, just leave off the contexts (which you are doing here). The problem with what you are teaching is ALL THE OTHER VERSES YOU DO NOT QUOTE. And we know 2Tim3:16.

How do you make this fit Teacher

1JN 3:6 "..anyone leads a lifestile of sin has NEVER known him at ANYTIME"

And what about Jesus "depart from me you workers of sin I NEVER knew you"

[Ult1mateUltron]

very good preach

[truecowboy1987]

well i will continue to check what you are saying to the bible but as for this video you are spot on and i applaud you for only using the bible like you should. It is great to hear that other people are still seeking the truth.

God bless you

[JustAboutMyFaith]

The wages of sin is death. And spiritual death alone. Because when Adam sinned, the Spirit of God left him. But he did not die physically. That's why the wages of sin is spiritual death, and not physical. Now eternal life is eternal. Or else it's only temporal. Salvation is becoming born again. If you think it is just getting your sins forgiven, followed by a lifetime of works, followed by repeatedly asking for forgiveness every time you sin, then do you also become born again over & over too ?

[voiceof1cryin]

amen.

[CmRoddy]

1 John 2:19 - "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us." I think that this verse alone proves Perseverance of the Saints(Eternal Security) to be true. If we are letting the Bible speak, than that is what 1 John 2:19 is saying.

[daytonohiofellowship]

Very true, I wached him again look you will see it all if you read on (where he dont).

You pulled up a good Verse to shoot this antichrist message down. I used two more like it, and there is more. You get REALLY saved you WILL follow, "My sheep know my Voice and they WILL follow.."

This teacher needs to look into the 15Th Century and see where this doctrine came about . No one thought this untill then.

He has to many issues in the text to TRY to prove this.

[MICHAELMEM]

Paul DID NOT write Hebrews and had a ministry DISTINCT from all that the Hebrew Epistle has for the Hebrews (from A. E Knoch). Paul's ministry does NOT teach that we are under the law. Paul's epistles say different things than are in the Book of Hebrews and Book of James (Paul's doctrine of faith without works CANNOT be reconciled with James's faith and works) James and Peter preached the gospel OF/TO the Circumcision, while Paul preached the gospel OF/TO the Gentiles (Read Galations 2:7-9)

[rocka700]

Jesus died for the sins of the world, so therefore He died for the salvation of the world. But every human being on the earth has a choice to either believe and live for Jesus or not. If you choose to obey the Lord His free gift of salvation throught the death of Christ is granted to you and you go to heaven. If you reject what God did then you go to hell. It's a choice on the part of mankind. God did it, we choose to recieve it!

[JonahTorn]

The law does condemn in the future but we have a model of condemnation though the law as it has been carried out on earth that is an inferior model. Nevertheless wrath on earth is wrath and we do not show wrath because we appreciate being saved. The salvation is superior in the future and the condemnation is greater that we are saved from, but never the less mercy on a smaller scale still offered by us to others still respects greater mercy and all wrath is wrath we may never show as in Ro12:19

[jefflb1961]

SAY WHAT????

[JonahTorn]

Rom 2:12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

The Law still had a future tense impact for Jews and Gentiles for Judgement. Christians seek to be save from Judgement which Paul had also called wrath up this point in Romans. Thus he says do not Judge just as Jesus himself taught before his death and resurection.

[JonahTorn]

continued

Ro2:3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?

So if you are a Christain seeking to escape Jidgement and you Judge no one could take you from Gods hand, but God has said through Paul what who God will Judge and who he will not and God's choice to judge judgers is not revoked because he may also save from Judgement. Mercy triumphs over judgement, for the merciful.

[JonahTorn]

Continued:

So, in Ro2:3 are the individuals who want to escape the Judgement of God Christians who have sought mercy. Ro 2:4 says

"Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?"

God's kindness,tolerance & patience had lead to repentence for those warned not to Judge in Ro2:3 & if they can not be Judged for jugeing despite this, the Ro 2:3's warning is nonsence.

[JonahTorn]

Once again Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come." If we inherit death from Adam as a model we alsso see a limit on that model

since death reigned from Adam until Moses. We still die so the limit was on the model and type we look to. The law was also a type. Id not mean dispensation of equal plans, but a type inferior to another.

[JonahTorn]

The question assumes it means something already to the hearers and taose who know what that means know the real question is about 5 point Calvinism. In that you have once predestined to be saved by God always chosen to be saved and once lost by Gods predestined will lost. Once saved always saved is code for God chose individuals to save and he prechose that you would believe and the same applies to God's Choice as to whom is lost and that every choice and thought and action is chosen by God.

[SKYSPLASH]

How many times can you LOSE your Salvation ? What Sins can you commit to LOSE your Salvation ?

How Many times have you PERSONALLY LOST your Salvation ?

How does one become Un BORN AGAIN and then Re BORN AGAIN.

How many SHEEP did Jesus say he would Lose and Get BACK ?

In Matthew 7 22 JESUS states he NEVER KNEW them yet they claimed to know JESUS. Did they Lose what they NEVER HAD ?

[tzadik64]

If you answered YES to any of those questions then you had better hope that you can keep your self in faith.

Good luck!

[tzadik64]

If it is up to us to stay in faith, then we are all lost. You are burrying the issue with unrelated scriptures.

Ask your self this:

1. Did you save your self?

2. Did you produce faith from within your self?

3. If you are a new creation, can you now go and uncreate your new self once again?

4. Can you break the seal that is the Holy Spirit?

5.Those people refered to in Heb 6 etc, were they ever realy saved?

[JonahTorn]

God saves. Is every man and woman now saved?

God shows wrath. Does everyone face wrath?

Does one facing God's wrath mean that his grace and salvation was only not powerful enough to hold on to save that person of was God's wrath more powerful? None of these questions make sence without knowing what really triggered the questions.

[CharlieRight]

Were all of the people who left Egypt Saved?

Did all who died in the desert go to Hell? Moses himself sinned.

Do we turn from our wickedness to be saved?If we can be saved and unsaved at will why was Christ crucified.

The Bible has not spoken, Norm has convuluted the scriptures and misspoken.

Your doctrine is no different than the " leaven of the pharisees" That Jesus spoke about. The theme of eternal salvation runs through the entire Bible.

[jefflb1961]

For those interested, I deal with this subject under Jeff Bryant "Ernestly Contending For the Faith".

[jefflb1961]

Preach on Preacher Norm. The Doctrine of Eternal Security could not be more dangerous in my opinion. It will sure rile those who believe in it, though their own doctrine teaches nothing we could ever do or teach could cause one to be lost if already saved. If they are right, who could we possibly harm, But if wrong, how many could be eternally lost thinking they will be saved.  As Jude said in v 4: "Certain men have crept in unawares...turning the Grace of our God into Lasciviousness"

[CharlieRight]

jefflb1961, The real danger is that people who believe your doctrine will wind up lost because they are taught that they are saved and kept by their own will. Have you ever truly trusted Jesus with your eternal soul.If not you might not be saved.

[jefflb1961]

I fully trust in Christ as my Savior and Redeemer, but it is the type of perversion that many times occurs, by advocates of Eternal Security, that the book of Jude was written. Turn Grace into lasciviousness. I have never taught that we are saved by our own will, but by trusting in Calvary. Like James said, "Faith w/o works is dead" Because of Calvary I believe I don't have to sin every day. Sin brings death and sinners are always referred in the Bible as lost. Lets get out of the sin business.

[SwordSearchers]

Prior to this, I watched several of your videos. I love what your doing with your TV program and especially the false church exposure. However, with this issue, I tell you in the Lord Jesus Christ that you are in error.What you have done with scripture is exactly what your accusing me of, that is, piecing scripture together to make it sound like what you want it to say.

[SwordSearchers]

Your reaction to me has been exactly that which you receive from your callers, one of pride and arrogance. I delight in the Lord with the gifts he has given you with scripture and debate, but without love you are nothing.

[PreacherNorm]

I wondered how long it would take for someone to start posting comments to argue with God's word. It amazes me that I can simply quote passages, with no comment at all, and people will sill argue their denominational doctrine against the Scripture itself! Not one single verse you gave above said that a person is born in sin.

[SwordSearchers]

Norm, Here it posted again..

Rom5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, ***FOR THAT -ALL HAVE SINNED:*Rom3;23and come short of the glory of God

[PreacherNorm]

Rom.5:12 CONTRADICTS the idea of inherited sin! The passage says ALL HAVE SINNED. However, you say ALL ARE BORN SINNERS. Clearly, a new-born infant hasn't done anything to sin. A person is not GUILTY of sin until they COMMIT sin. Rom. 5:12 DOES not say that we are all born sinners but that we will commit sin because sin is in the world. I guess your propensity to try to make verses say what they don't say is why you would think to argue with the word of God.

[SwordSearchers]

So despite the fact that Gods'word teaches clearly that there is NONE righteous, NO not ONE, your hang up is new-borns. You must then be saying that a new born is in a sinless state as BEFORE the fall. That is unbiblical and totally laced with Catholicism.

[CharlieRight]

SwordSearchers, Norm dosent believe in imputed sin which entered the world by one man. He dos'ent seem to believe that we are all saved by one persons righteousness.

[SwordSearchers]

It is sad isn't it CharlieRight, that men such as Preachernorm pervert the pure gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ in attaching works to salvation. Praise God that we are purchased with the blood of Jesus Christ having His righteousness imputed upon us "the unrighteous". We are kept by the power of God through faith, however Preachernorm is kept by the power of his free will, in good works

[CharlieRight]

SwordSearchers,Yes it is a shame that such a learned man misses the point altogether.

there is something in the flesh that makes man wants to be God, that is the nature of Satan, described in ISA 14. It is the same spirit that slew Able and stoned Stephen. Jesus denounced the learned Pharisees because they placed burdens on those that would enter the Kingdom.

That same spirit that reared it's ugly head in GEN 3 is Alive and well today, its mission is to make the Cross Christ of none effect

[JonahTorn]

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come."

Adam was a type of Jesus. The type of condemnation was death at all in this case part of that type. The Type is alway less in scope than the reality. Sacrifice of animals was a type of Christ's sacrifice but Christ's sacrifice saves forever. Adams death is Temporary not eternal death but Christ's offer's eternal life.

[HermitintheRain]

@PreacherNorm Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Psalm 51:5 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jer 17:9 The heart didn't become that way just one day when it reached a certain age, the heart of everyone of us is born that way. Whether you are 100 years old or 1 second old, without the blood of Jesus Christ to regenerate it, it remains utterly abominably wicked.

[HermitintheRain]

@PreacherNorm There is no goodness in you or me or anyone on this earth. That infant if given the opportunity, according to its own nature, would lie, cheat, steal and even kill to have its way. It will also, like the rest of us, shove its fist in the face of God, until God, in his mercy and truth, causes his grace in the blood of Jesus Christ by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, to give us a new heart and to walk in the newness of life.

[SwordSearchers]

What makes a person a sinner? Is it each individual act of sin that is committed or is it because of Adams original sin? Is the enmity with God due too the depraved sinful nature "itself", or the acts which are a result of it.

Rom5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, ***for that -all have sinned:*Rom3;23and come short of the glory of God

[SwordSearchers]

Gal3:22-26 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise *by faith* of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But *before* faith came, we were kept under the law,shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

[SwordSearchers]

But after that faith is come, we are no ***longer under a schoolmaster.*** For ye are all the children of God *by faith* in Christ Jesus. Rom3:27-28 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the *law of faith.* Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith *without* the deeds of the law.

[SwordSearchers]

Eph2:1-3. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins

Eph2:8 For by grace are ye **saved through faith**; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Heb12:2 Looking unto Jesus the *author and finisher* of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Pet1:5 Who are **kept by the power of God through faith** unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[SwordSearchers]

Norm, You are attempting to place believers under the old schoolmaster, which is bondage. We did nothing to save ourselves, nor can we keep ourselves, it is Gods' grace alone. We are under the law of Faith alone without the deeds of the law.God has ordained us unto good works, enabling us to establish the law through his Holy Spirit alone

In Christ Jesus

Peter

[PreacherNorm]

Peter, you have too many "alone(s)." Be definition, if something is "alone" then it is not connected with anything else. However, you have "grace alone," "faith alone," and "His Spirit along." When I took math 1 + 1 + 1 = 3, not 1.

[PreacherNorm]

And how do you figure that I am "attempting to place believers under the old schoolmaster"? I'm just curious how my quoting verses that contridict the man-made doctrine of once-saved-always-saved could be taken as trying to bind the Old Testament on people.

[SwordSearchers]

Norm,

If you could have presented your video two thousand years ago to the children of Israel, you would be 100% accurate seeing how they were under the law of righteousness, but because no one could keep the law, it, as a schoolmaster reveals our total depravity. If you continue to place people under it, it can only condemn them: for by the law shall no flesh be justified.

[SwordSearchers]

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Ep1:6We are not under the schoolmaster! We are under the Law of Faith "alone" You are telling Christians that they can *un-earn* that which they did not earn in the first place.. You are adding WORKS to salvation. Who are **kept by the power of God through faith** unto salvation 1 Pet1:5

[PreacherNorm]

You seem to overlook the fact that the great majority of the passages quoted were written for the New Testament church, not the children of Israel.

[SwordSearchers]

This is a Law of righteousness v\s the Law of Faith issue.

[nathaw11]

@PreacherNorm Your verses do not plead your case. You are putting them in the wrong understanding. 2 Corinthians 1:21-22, 2 Corinthians 5:5, John 3:16, Ephesians 1:13-14, Romans 8:38-39 all disagree with you and teach we are secure. Hebrews 6 and 10 talk about those saved that wanted to go back to the Law of Moses. They didn't lose their salvation.

[nathaw11]

@PreacherNorm Easy, you are placing them under the heavy yoke of the Law. Like keeping them means anything outside of relationship with the Father. We don't do anything to get or keep anything. We can only do out of gratitude for what Christ already accomplished for us. We are seen as He is because of our faith!