problem is the people in the room are looking for validation from him for their own anti mormon views and also support for their own Christianity - he doesnt believe in anything at all. He denounces mormonism but also everyones Christianity at the same time....
@highwind8124 Okay The Original Book of Abraham before it was altered by the LDS did not teach those things., and the RLDS, which stands for Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints never did teach or claim that Christ and satan are spirit brothers, which is blasphemy.
In the premortal life, there was only one plan presented, God's plan. God chose to send the First, Jesus to be the Savior, but there were not 2 plans presented.
@LDStothecore You're partially right. God presented his plan, but Satan disagreed and rebelled, presenting a second plan. As Lyndon says 1/3 of the souls in heaven sided with Satan, all of whom werew cast out of Heaven, and will never receive a body. Incidentally, I'm a 56 year old ex-Mormon who was excommunicated at my own request in 1985. My parents are still devout Mormons, and I respect the church for all of thier good works and teachings. I just can't buy the whole Joseph Smith thing.
@Dogheadj I don't see why you can't accept Joseph Smith. As President Hinckley said, either the church is true or it's not. Either Joseph saw what he saw or he didn't. I know the church is true and that Joseph saw what he said he saw. And there was only 1 plan presented, not 2. The difference was in that Lucifer wanted to take away agency and he wanted the glory.
@LDStothecore True. Satan's plan was to take away free agency (thus, a 2nd plan). Satan's plan must have been presented in some manner, else how could 1/3 side with him in the pre-existence?
@LDStothecore I would love to have a discussion with you, but not in this format. I don't want to dissuade believers from their faith, nor do I want to convert anyone at this point. You are welcome to contact me at Dogheadj@aol.com if you'd like to continue the discussion. I have a very open mind, and am not offended easily. I hope you feel the same way.
he left out outer darkness after hte final judgement which is for the devil his angels and all those that make themselves angels unto the devil and follow him.
Your wording is very careful. "Does not teach that" does not mean did not teach it. It also does not mean: "does not reject that claim". A simple net search turns up quotes linked to LDS websites that say plainly that they are spirit brothers, Jesus being the older.
Maybe the RLDS (I assume the R means reformed) swept some stuff under the rug, but I don't see how it solves the problem.
Odd doctrines? Yes there are some rather odd doctrines in the Mormon church, but still the Book of Mormon is true. How is this true? Because the LDS aren't the only ones with the book. There is an error about the Reorganized Church. They did not change their name to the Community of Christ. That was an apostasy, and the restoration branches in the world proclaim the true doctrine of the church, that Joseph indeed only had ONE wife, Emma.
I agree with almost everything Lyndon Lamborn says here except the part where he quotes Kent Ponder and then only applies the thought to mormons. All religions do the same thing at one level or another. Not only moromons NEED to have illusions of certainty. The truth does not sell well with ANY religious body. Proof of that goes back to Galileo and further.
Why are Mormons so sensitive about their religion being poked at, and dissected? No religion is safe from criticism. Get over it.
For those people who refuse to accept the truth -on both sides of the argument- I would think having this guy, and a still practicing Mormon having a debate/interview together would be the most effective. If, that is, a practicing Mormon would be willing to do it.
reconciliation's tact is ingratiation, y would dey deviate from their teachings? only if they wanted 2 exploit ur wallet, when he speaks it sounds like that movie the poltergeist; you have a house with a good view you look out your "mothers" perfect window that promises a spiritual development but the house was built on some grounds that made the livlihood haunted and stolen, cant clean house u can only leave & put out that tv or the thing that grabs your attention which is commercializing life.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I'd really appreciate it if you taught others about your own religion or faith and not that of others. It's really a sad day when someone that is not a part of a particular faith tries to teach other about its perceived follies.
I think you'd be a lot better off if you just gave it up and continued living how YOU want to live and allow others that same courtesy.
The man never put a gun to your head and said you couldn't be a Mormon. Everyone get's criticized and everyone's a critic. That's life on this planet earth.
If I may hurt your feelings further, may I say how funny I find it that God's big plan for humanity can be presented as a flowchart.
Jesus didn't present a plan. An alternate plan was presented by Lucifer when Heavenly Father presented His plan. Christ stepped forward and agreed to perform the Atonement required by Heavenly Father's plan.
It's funny that they would invite somebody who hates the LDS Church to talk about them to an audience. Don't you think that "Knowing the difference" should let the Church explain their views on these topics...they are more than happy to explain. We do not hide them or shun speaking of them. This group is obviously trying to sway the crowd away from mormonism.
he clearly does not hate the LDS church, he just no longer believes its tenants. that does not mean he is incapable of discussing LDS doctrine and beliefs, which he does accurately and without bias or rancor.
Wow, that woman who asked "What does a Mormon mean when they say they believe in Jesus Christ" did not like his answer. It really shatters Evangelicals beliefs that Mormons may actually be "saved" by their own definition despite Mormons unusual dotrines.
You cannot say that the church has a good program and then call it the church of the devil. It is against all common sense, and if you belive in the bible it is against the words in that book as well. Either it is the church of the devil or it is what it says it is. It is left to the individual to make the conclusion.
good people to do wrong or take the wrong path is to feed them many beautiful things and get them to "join his church" (his "WAY"),
then proceed to sneak in things that are lies into the body of "beliefs". Doing evil things is one way to hell. Another, more sinister path to hell is to believe in something that is false--in SPITE of the many good beliefs that accompany it. LDS hav MANY of those little deceits that accumulated over the 178 years.
Who said the church has "good" programs? I certainly didn't. ALL church programs are designed to indoctrinate (brainwash) otherwise reasonable people with the Mor(m)on bullshite dogma. End of story.
Why not get an active mormon to something like this. Instead of someone who obviously feels emnity towards the church. If you want to know what a real member believes why not ask one.
Sure, jeff. ANd likewise we should ask Tom Cruz about the truth of Scientology or a Ford Dealer what the best car is. That would be enlightening!! WTF!! LOL!!
If you were sick would you rather go to a doctor who had his license stripped or one who was still practicing. See I can give pointless examples and thumbs down signs too.
The point is, what makes you think he has "emnity toward the church" is NOT that he REALLY does, but that he says things that are critical of LDS. I'm watching "Idol" at the moment and Simon, as usual is critical of the performance, but no way does one get the impression that he has "emnity" for the performer. Mormons OTOH, cannot seem to process the difference when criticism or challenging is aimed at LDS.
To make your "doctor" example work you would need to change it just a wee bit. It would be like choosing between 2 practicing doctors one of whom cheated his way through his schooling and training, but his patients are unaware of his deceit.
I AM aware of how you can "give pointless examples". I have seen it from Mormons here on YouTube COUNTLESS times. But, you are one of the best at it.
Your "ask a Mormon" suggestion was not pointless--it was child like and naive,and borderline LAME.
What amazes me is the quick way in which you point fingers at others. It seems to me that you are the one who is not quite so certain in what you believe, because if you were you would let anyone believe as they would like to believe and leave well enough alone. Instead of reducing yourself to calling names and trying to demean others you would pursue a path of self betterment. A wise man said "You cannot save another unless you yourself are standing on higher ground." Good luck in your search.
Who said that? Hitler? I can see why he would be motivated to say such a thing. Who judges a particular position (generally one's own) to be the "higher ground"?
You accuse me of pointing fingers? You accusing LL of having "emnity" (read hatred) toward the LDS, is okay?? Judge not that ye be not judged.
This is an addition to below. Like I said being LDS is a choice, not a mandate. Even in the church. We put our faith in Jesus Christ and his prophets, but the prophets don't ask for blind worship, we ask of God and have faith he will answer and tell each of us individually what is the right and wrong. Scripture then only becomes a guide to life, the prophets words become extremely good advice to stand in good standing with God. We don't worship a book or a man, all our worship is for God.
I have been in MANY LDS meetings in my life and very often the name of Jesus is NEVER mentioned except in a song or in opening and closing prayers. "Pay, pray and obey" is the ONLY consistent theme.
No "blind" faith?? Excuse me!! I have heard and can give you DIRECT QUOTES where a "profit of god" said, "when the profit speaks the thinking has been done." (ETB) This idea has been echoed by others also. THAT is a Rx for blind faith and obedience.
We NEVER hear of a debate sponsored by YBU OR the church so the members can understand the issues of the critics. Even the cowards at FAIR won't debate this in a public forum because they KNOW they'll get their lame asses handed to them on a fig-leaf covered platter.
#1 it is a Prophet not profit, two completely different words. Number 2 give me the quotes I have never heard that, ever in 23 years. But I am sure you will do what all you ignoramous fools do when you feel obligated to attack that which you think you understand but do not, and that is take out of context and hate. I believe you hate because you do not understand how someone can know something so surely in there mind without seeing and that is something you could never do.
I used "profit" because it fits the LDS meaning better. LDS IS a corporation, after all. ALL corporations become corporations for ONE reason and one reason
ONLY--P-R-O-F-I-T (money considerations). Where does it say in the NT that Jesus' church was to be a corporation? Apostles and bishops and deacons I can understand. But, become a government sanctioned and approved entity?--as well as an IRS approved 501c3, tax-exempt church??
Where is the "revelation" that indicates Jesus' approval of that heresy? "Don't understand"?? I was LDS longer than you've been breathing, son.
"Hate"?? The ONLY person/thing I hate are the lies put out by the LDS as God's truth.
The ONLY reason you would call legit. challenges to LDS dogma as "hate", is because of your out-of-control and monsterously exagerated (the boogie-man's gonna get you), persecution complex.
You are the most intelligent, well spoken person I have ever read or heard. If only you wrote a book people might listen to you over those words of the bible, or men that have much more experience and education as you. You obviously know more about me than God so there is no reason to argue with you or debate. Man it is incredible to meet someone with your amount of arrogance and pomp. This will be the last time I will respond to your slander, so have a nice day. :)
Well jeffie, I'm going to enlighten you (for thye first time in 23 years). Rejoice and be glad, my boy!! It would appear from President Benson's speech that he wants his people to allow the "Living Prophet" to do their thinking in temporal as well as spiritual matters.
"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan—it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy." (Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354).
....Lucifer...wins a great victory when he can get members of the Church to speak against their leaders and to 'do their own thinking.'...
Please explain in what way this is "out of context".
And to your question below "... as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another's burdens, that they may be light;
"Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, ...
"Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?"
This is what it means to stand on higher ground. If you are you won't even know your there. You just do what is right for the sake of doing what is right.
I would like to see him debate with a member of the church. As I am listening there are so many holes in what he is saying it creates more questions than answers. he crosses himself more than once.
I've wathced all seven of this series. You can't tell me that I don't know about this situation. I have been in the middle of many arguments in which people were attacking the church. Invariably the attackers cross themselves many times over.
My prejudiced mind. Wow you are one to be pointing fingers at being prejudice. Tell me what if the church were true. Have you ever asked yourself and God this question really wondering and willing to accept the answer God gave you whether it be right or wrong. I have. I was born in the church but have a father who is no longer a member. He left many years ago, but I have never heard him critcize the doctrines. But I had the oppurtunity to choose either way. Being LDS is a choice.
"crosses" himself. WHAT? You make a baseless assertion and then refuse to back it up?? You need to do some intense (or any) study of your own doctrine and history before you come here and try faking being Elder Ballard's "defender of the faith".
You didn't answer my question either. And Elder Ballard doesn't need a "defender of the faith" he is quite capable of defending the faith himself and he does quite regularly. I don't have an answer to this silly question because I watched this many months ago and really don't remember what he said. And I am not going back to listen to it now to satisfy a couple of sign seekers on youtube.
Hey, jeffie. I went through ALL of your posts and did not see ANY--ANY question from you. Is this another "lying fer the Lard" fettish for you? Try honesty for a change, mon!!
"...Invariably the attackers cross themselves many times over. .." Love how you play the victim card by using attacker. the man was excommunicated, answered questions from a curious lot, and u choose "attacker". where does Lamborn cross himself?
A true church of god does not threaten you with excommunication or damnation for thinking critically, unless god wants you to be a slave and a sheep
SocraticFox 1 month ago
problem is the people in the room are looking for validation from him for their own anti mormon views and also support for their own Christianity - he doesnt believe in anything at all. He denounces mormonism but also everyones Christianity at the same time....
adamngakiri 5 months ago
@highwind8124 Okay The Original Book of Abraham before it was altered by the LDS did not teach those things., and the RLDS, which stands for Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints never did teach or claim that Christ and satan are spirit brothers, which is blasphemy.
blsohlden 7 months ago
In the premortal life, there was only one plan presented, God's plan. God chose to send the First, Jesus to be the Savior, but there were not 2 plans presented.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
@LDStothecore You're partially right. God presented his plan, but Satan disagreed and rebelled, presenting a second plan. As Lyndon says 1/3 of the souls in heaven sided with Satan, all of whom werew cast out of Heaven, and will never receive a body. Incidentally, I'm a 56 year old ex-Mormon who was excommunicated at my own request in 1985. My parents are still devout Mormons, and I respect the church for all of thier good works and teachings. I just can't buy the whole Joseph Smith thing.
Dogheadj 7 months ago
@Dogheadj I don't see why you can't accept Joseph Smith. As President Hinckley said, either the church is true or it's not. Either Joseph saw what he saw or he didn't. I know the church is true and that Joseph saw what he said he saw. And there was only 1 plan presented, not 2. The difference was in that Lucifer wanted to take away agency and he wanted the glory.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore True. Satan's plan was to take away free agency (thus, a 2nd plan). Satan's plan must have been presented in some manner, else how could 1/3 side with him in the pre-existence?
Dogheadj 7 months ago
@Dogheadj ONE plan, two that wanted to be saviours. He was able to convince others to follow him. No need to argue this point further.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore I would love to have a discussion with you, but not in this format. I don't want to dissuade believers from their faith, nor do I want to convert anyone at this point. You are welcome to contact me at Dogheadj@aol.com if you'd like to continue the discussion. I have a very open mind, and am not offended easily. I hope you feel the same way.
Dogheadj 7 months ago
@Dogheadj My purpose is not to destroy anyone's faith either but to bring others to Christ.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
he left out outer darkness after hte final judgement which is for the devil his angels and all those that make themselves angels unto the devil and follow him.
jkulesha 1 year ago
Jesus and Satan are not spirit brothers and the RLDS restoration branches don't teach that.
blsohlden 1 year ago
@blsohlden
Your wording is very careful. "Does not teach that" does not mean did not teach it. It also does not mean: "does not reject that claim". A simple net search turns up quotes linked to LDS websites that say plainly that they are spirit brothers, Jesus being the older.
Maybe the RLDS (I assume the R means reformed) swept some stuff under the rug, but I don't see how it solves the problem.
highwind8124 1 year ago
Odd doctrines? Yes there are some rather odd doctrines in the Mormon church, but still the Book of Mormon is true. How is this true? Because the LDS aren't the only ones with the book. There is an error about the Reorganized Church. They did not change their name to the Community of Christ. That was an apostasy, and the restoration branches in the world proclaim the true doctrine of the church, that Joseph indeed only had ONE wife, Emma.
blsohlden 1 year ago
I agree with almost everything Lyndon Lamborn says here except the part where he quotes Kent Ponder and then only applies the thought to mormons. All religions do the same thing at one level or another. Not only moromons NEED to have illusions of certainty. The truth does not sell well with ANY religious body. Proof of that goes back to Galileo and further.
ToolFan68 2 years ago
Why are Mormons so sensitive about their religion being poked at, and dissected? No religion is safe from criticism. Get over it.
For those people who refuse to accept the truth -on both sides of the argument- I would think having this guy, and a still practicing Mormon having a debate/interview together would be the most effective. If, that is, a practicing Mormon would be willing to do it.
electroxjunkie 2 years ago
reconciliation's tact is ingratiation, y would dey deviate from their teachings? only if they wanted 2 exploit ur wallet, when he speaks it sounds like that movie the poltergeist; you have a house with a good view you look out your "mothers" perfect window that promises a spiritual development but the house was built on some grounds that made the livlihood haunted and stolen, cant clean house u can only leave & put out that tv or the thing that grabs your attention which is commercializing life.
42064206 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I'd really appreciate it if you taught others about your own religion or faith and not that of others. It's really a sad day when someone that is not a part of a particular faith tries to teach other about its perceived follies.
I think you'd be a lot better off if you just gave it up and continued living how YOU want to live and allow others that same courtesy.
BYU4U 3 years ago
The man never put a gun to your head and said you couldn't be a Mormon. Everyone get's criticized and everyone's a critic. That's life on this planet earth.
If I may hurt your feelings further, may I say how funny I find it that God's big plan for humanity can be presented as a flowchart.
jafnhar2 3 years ago
freedom of speech man, and if you don't like the sound, freedom of deafness
almax84 2 years ago
Jesus didn't present a plan. An alternate plan was presented by Lucifer when Heavenly Father presented His plan. Christ stepped forward and agreed to perform the Atonement required by Heavenly Father's plan.
lnielsen76 3 years ago
Looks like Modern Christianity has a new prophet. Did he say he was into spiritualism? Should I believe atheists about the bible?
lnielsen76 3 years ago
It's funny that they would invite somebody who hates the LDS Church to talk about them to an audience. Don't you think that "Knowing the difference" should let the Church explain their views on these topics...they are more than happy to explain. We do not hide them or shun speaking of them. This group is obviously trying to sway the crowd away from mormonism.
9FootFiveWt 3 years ago
he clearly does not hate the LDS church, he just no longer believes its tenants. that does not mean he is incapable of discussing LDS doctrine and beliefs, which he does accurately and without bias or rancor.
fubecaman 3 years ago 6
Wow, that woman who asked "What does a Mormon mean when they say they believe in Jesus Christ" did not like his answer. It really shatters Evangelicals beliefs that Mormons may actually be "saved" by their own definition despite Mormons unusual dotrines.
bytebear 3 years ago
You cannot say that the church has a good program and then call it the church of the devil. It is against all common sense, and if you belive in the bible it is against the words in that book as well. Either it is the church of the devil or it is what it says it is. It is left to the individual to make the conclusion.
jeffrrs 4 years ago
My LDS understanding of the way Satan deceives
good people to do wrong or take the wrong path is to feed them many beautiful things and get them to "join his church" (his "WAY"),
then proceed to sneak in things that are lies into the body of "beliefs". Doing evil things is one way to hell. Another, more sinister path to hell is to believe in something that is false--in SPITE of the many good beliefs that accompany it. LDS hav MANY of those little deceits that accumulated over the 178 years.
sAME2U22 4 years ago
Who said the church has "good" programs? I certainly didn't. ALL church programs are designed to indoctrinate (brainwash) otherwise reasonable people with the Mor(m)on bullshite dogma. End of story.
sAME2U22 3 years ago
Why not get an active mormon to something like this. Instead of someone who obviously feels emnity towards the church. If you want to know what a real member believes why not ask one.
jeffrrs 4 years ago
Sure, jeff. ANd likewise we should ask Tom Cruz about the truth of Scientology or a Ford Dealer what the best car is. That would be enlightening!! WTF!! LOL!!
sAME2U22 4 years ago
If you were sick would you rather go to a doctor who had his license stripped or one who was still practicing. See I can give pointless examples and thumbs down signs too.
jeffrrs 4 years ago
The point is, what makes you think he has "emnity toward the church" is NOT that he REALLY does, but that he says things that are critical of LDS. I'm watching "Idol" at the moment and Simon, as usual is critical of the performance, but no way does one get the impression that he has "emnity" for the performer. Mormons OTOH, cannot seem to process the difference when criticism or challenging is aimed at LDS.
sAME2U22 4 years ago
To make your "doctor" example work you would need to change it just a wee bit. It would be like choosing between 2 practicing doctors one of whom cheated his way through his schooling and training, but his patients are unaware of his deceit.
I AM aware of how you can "give pointless examples". I have seen it from Mormons here on YouTube COUNTLESS times. But, you are one of the best at it.
Your "ask a Mormon" suggestion was not pointless--it was child like and naive,and borderline LAME.
sAME2U22 4 years ago
What amazes me is the quick way in which you point fingers at others. It seems to me that you are the one who is not quite so certain in what you believe, because if you were you would let anyone believe as they would like to believe and leave well enough alone. Instead of reducing yourself to calling names and trying to demean others you would pursue a path of self betterment. A wise man said "You cannot save another unless you yourself are standing on higher ground." Good luck in your search.
jeffrrs 4 years ago
Who said that? Hitler? I can see why he would be motivated to say such a thing. Who judges a particular position (generally one's own) to be the "higher ground"?
You accuse me of pointing fingers? You accusing LL of having "emnity" (read hatred) toward the LDS, is okay?? Judge not that ye be not judged.
sAME2U22 4 years ago
This is an addition to below. Like I said being LDS is a choice, not a mandate. Even in the church. We put our faith in Jesus Christ and his prophets, but the prophets don't ask for blind worship, we ask of God and have faith he will answer and tell each of us individually what is the right and wrong. Scripture then only becomes a guide to life, the prophets words become extremely good advice to stand in good standing with God. We don't worship a book or a man, all our worship is for God.
jeffrrs 3 years ago
I have been in MANY LDS meetings in my life and very often the name of Jesus is NEVER mentioned except in a song or in opening and closing prayers. "Pay, pray and obey" is the ONLY consistent theme.
No "blind" faith?? Excuse me!! I have heard and can give you DIRECT QUOTES where a "profit of god" said, "when the profit speaks the thinking has been done." (ETB) This idea has been echoed by others also. THAT is a Rx for blind faith and obedience.
sAME2U22 3 years ago
It is also the earmark of a CULT.
We NEVER hear of a debate sponsored by YBU OR the church so the members can understand the issues of the critics. Even the cowards at FAIR won't debate this in a public forum because they KNOW they'll get their lame asses handed to them on a fig-leaf covered platter.
sAME2U22 3 years ago
#1 it is a Prophet not profit, two completely different words. Number 2 give me the quotes I have never heard that, ever in 23 years. But I am sure you will do what all you ignoramous fools do when you feel obligated to attack that which you think you understand but do not, and that is take out of context and hate. I believe you hate because you do not understand how someone can know something so surely in there mind without seeing and that is something you could never do.
jeffrrs 3 years ago
I used "profit" because it fits the LDS meaning better. LDS IS a corporation, after all. ALL corporations become corporations for ONE reason and one reason
ONLY--P-R-O-F-I-T (money considerations). Where does it say in the NT that Jesus' church was to be a corporation? Apostles and bishops and deacons I can understand. But, become a government sanctioned and approved entity?--as well as an IRS approved 501c3, tax-exempt church??
sAME2U22 3 years ago
(cont)
Where is the "revelation" that indicates Jesus' approval of that heresy? "Don't understand"?? I was LDS longer than you've been breathing, son.
"Hate"?? The ONLY person/thing I hate are the lies put out by the LDS as God's truth.
The ONLY reason you would call legit. challenges to LDS dogma as "hate", is because of your out-of-control and monsterously exagerated (the boogie-man's gonna get you), persecution complex.
sAME2U22 3 years ago
You are the most intelligent, well spoken person I have ever read or heard. If only you wrote a book people might listen to you over those words of the bible, or men that have much more experience and education as you. You obviously know more about me than God so there is no reason to argue with you or debate. Man it is incredible to meet someone with your amount of arrogance and pomp. This will be the last time I will respond to your slander, so have a nice day. :)
jeffrrs 3 years ago
All I can say, jeffie, is good riddance.
You didn't contribute anything worthwhile here anyway. Good luck on your myth hunting.
sAME2U22 3 years ago
Well jeffie, I'm going to enlighten you (for thye first time in 23 years). Rejoice and be glad, my boy!! It would appear from President Benson's speech that he wants his people to allow the "Living Prophet" to do their thinking in temporal as well as spiritual matters.
(cont)
sAME2U22 3 years ago
"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan—it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy." (Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354).
....Lucifer...wins a great victory when he can get members of the Church to speak against their leaders and to 'do their own thinking.'...
Please explain in what way this is "out of context".
sAME2U22 3 years ago 2
And to your question below "... as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another's burdens, that they may be light;
"Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, ...
jeffrrs 3 years ago
To finish the statement below
"Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?"
This is what it means to stand on higher ground. If you are you won't even know your there. You just do what is right for the sake of doing what is right.
jeffrrs 3 years ago
I would like to see him debate with a member of the church. As I am listening there are so many holes in what he is saying it creates more questions than answers. he crosses himself more than once.
jeffrrs 4 years ago
Who do you think he was talking to at his "court of Love"?--a Stake President and the Stake High Council--you know...MEMBERS!
NAME something he said that was not true?
View his excommunication (audio with sub titles) titled "The Excom'ion of Lyndon Lamborn"--3 parts.
sAME2U22 4 years ago
I've wathced all seven of this series. You can't tell me that I don't know about this situation. I have been in the middle of many arguments in which people were attacking the church. Invariably the attackers cross themselves many times over.
jeffrrs 4 years ago
ONLY IN YOUR EXTREMELY PREJUDICED MIND, jeffrrs.
AGAIN!!! Name something that he said that was without merit.
sAME2U22 4 years ago
My prejudiced mind. Wow you are one to be pointing fingers at being prejudice. Tell me what if the church were true. Have you ever asked yourself and God this question really wondering and willing to accept the answer God gave you whether it be right or wrong. I have. I was born in the church but have a father who is no longer a member. He left many years ago, but I have never heard him critcize the doctrines. But I had the oppurtunity to choose either way. Being LDS is a choice.
jeffrrs 3 years ago
jeffrrs.
You STILL have not given us ONE thing where LL
"crosses" himself. WHAT? You make a baseless assertion and then refuse to back it up?? You need to do some intense (or any) study of your own doctrine and history before you come here and try faking being Elder Ballard's "defender of the faith".
sAME2U22 3 years ago
You didn't answer my question either. And Elder Ballard doesn't need a "defender of the faith" he is quite capable of defending the faith himself and he does quite regularly. I don't have an answer to this silly question because I watched this many months ago and really don't remember what he said. And I am not going back to listen to it now to satisfy a couple of sign seekers on youtube.
jeffrrs 3 years ago
"You didn't answer my question either."??
Hey, jeffie. I went through ALL of your posts and did not see ANY--ANY question from you. Is this another "lying fer the Lard" fettish for you? Try honesty for a change, mon!!
sAME2U22 3 years ago
Hey, you're LDS. NOBODY can "tell you" ANYTHING. You are God's chosen and have all the answers. End of debate.
sAME2U22 4 years ago
"...Invariably the attackers cross themselves many times over. .." Love how you play the victim card by using attacker. the man was excommunicated, answered questions from a curious lot, and u choose "attacker". where does Lamborn cross himself?
freeurmind2 4 years ago
"...I am listening there are so many holes in what he is saying..."
Such as?
freeurmind2 4 years ago
"The Holy Spirit is the vehicle by which you learn all truth in Mormonism."
That is correct.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
AND the vehicle by which Lyndon "came to a knowledge of the truth".
The truth that would make men free is the truth men prefer not to hear. Anon.
sAME2U22 4 years ago