"You were either not really a Christian before, or you're not really an atheist now."
Nonsense. I believed in Christ. Better than that: I KNEW Christ, in my heart, deeply and purely. I worshiped Christ, spoke to Christ, and recieved answers from Christ.
I held Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. I loved Christ.
How could someone do these things and yet still not be a Christian?
Better still: how do you know that YOU are a Christian, if these things are not indicative of Christianity?
What nonsense: the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy is precisely what the 'No True Christian' issue is. If you redefine 'Christian' so that it doesn't mean "Someone who believes the Christian doctrines", but rather, "Someone who never changes their mind about the Christian doctrines", then we conclude that there are NO Christians living today (since you can't know if you're Christian until you die, having lived your life without changing your mind.)
When it comes to science...creationist & evolutionist see exactly the same evidence...we just interpret the evidence differently. Creationist see things through biblical lenses while evolutionist see things through secular lenses. We creationist believe the biblical account of creation is the necessary starting point for your entire world-view. The bible gives us an incredible account of creation that's both awesome & accurate...I've yet to see evidence to the contrary.
I'm so happy about the part in the end. I have been carrying around the shame of having to say "I used to be a Christian" wondering how I could have been so stupid to believe all these supernatural things without evidence. Now I know I was never one to begin with. Thanks theTRUTHgroup!!!
Sad thing there are a lot of ppl who thinks there christains but have know clue about being born again, and there for are not really christains,, so I fully agree with you
There is one huge problem with your argument, it might make sense if you could actually demonstrate that 1) the holy spirit exists and lives inside people 2) so called ex-Christians were not spirit-filled. You have no way to prove this outside of your tautological system, you can't prove that you know God or that he lives inside of you, therefore your whole argument is invalid
As a Christian, I KNEW Christianity was true. And I knew that I knew it. And what's more, I knew that I KNEW that I knew it. Ad infinitum. I knew that Muslims only THOUGHT that Islam was true. But they didn't KNOW it. Oh, they thought they knew it. And they thought that they knew that they knew it. But they didn't KNOW that they...etc. But me? I KNEW it.
Or so I thought. Alas, I was not a True Christian, because now I don't know it. Guess instead of infinity "knew's," I shoulda had infinity+1.
Lastly, you are saying that only a real Christian can *know* that s/he's Christian, and if s/he ever becomes an atheist, that means they never were Christian. That's like saying: I'm a vegetarian as long as I don't eat meat. If after 70 years, I suddenly have a steak, that means I was never a vegetarian. So I "thought" I was a vegetarian but never was one; only true vegetarians *know* what it *feels* to never crave meat. Hmmm, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I am a Christian but also I've been studying philosophy from over a decade. (I don't consider thinking a sin). According to you nobody could ever know if they are a Christian or not, because subjective conviction counts for nothing. How could I know whether my personal relationship to Christ/God is real or not, if I cannot trust my own judgment? We are human beings, Christianity is a choice (a leap of faith), amongst many other religions. Pardon me, but your video is weak and embarrassing
This cuts both ways. As soon as you deny the reality of former Christians' Christianity, in light of their belief that they were once Christians, you open the door to the possibility that you yourself are mistaken in thinking that you are now a Christian. Maybe you're sincerely in error.
It's funny that, while trying to cast doubt on others' Christianity, for no discernible purpose, you've cast doubt on your own. What if *you* fall into apostasy? Are *you* then not a Christian now?
@TenThousandSubbies You've stumbled onto the very idea that drives science forward, ironically. All human knowledge is provisional, no matter how much any of us protests. Scientific ideas at least generally touch upon more than one person's experience, and so are less likely to be overturned.
If only *you* can know that *you* are a Christian, then you are on much shakier ground. You can't directly compare your experiences of God with others'. Your sample size will always be 1. What you've...
@TenThousandSubbies ...done, by making your own Christianity dependent upon the future, is made it falsifiable. It's ironic that you're so smug about the "difference" between your Christianity and that of former Christians since you would have to say say you can't know you're a Christian until you've died without becoming apostate. If you then say that formerly religious atheists are wrong about their own experiences, then you have to allow that you might be deceived, now.
I'm less curious of the argument than I am for the purpose of this argument. You're not looking to convert atheists, it doesn't seem. By the very last line it looks more like you're just taking this 5 minute video to lord your faith over less pious people.
Not incredibly polite. In fact that's downright rude and a generally crappy way to conduct yourself.
@KurtDunniehue Yeah thank you! He proudly smirks while boasting that not only are billions of people that never believed are doomed to hell, but also potentially millions of supposed-believers that won't know if they are christians until they're dead.
once you start to see how powerful the cross really was.. and IS !.... you start to understand what Redemption really is. Christ died for the sins of the World....that means past,present, and future sins... heb. 6:13...there is no greater to swear by???? so god swore by himself.....why? 1) God commanded us to love him 2) o.k. if you love me i'll love you 3) o.k. love me or not ,,i'm going to love you anyway....unconditionally ...God knew the 3rd option was and is the best option!
If people who leave Christianity were never really Christians in the first place, than why are you so afraid of mainstream science being taught in schools? I mean any believer who takes those classes would surely never walk away from Yahweh if they're "real" Christians. If anything you should thank evolutionists for seperating the wheat from the chaff and making sure only "real" Christians remain... you're welcome.
@incomprehensible14 as a christian i just want to say for most christian's it's not that we are afraid of "mainstream science" we just hate that you only hear one side in schools and its not that we think someone might fall away from the faith but someone will miss out by never starting there relationship with God
@TheJason9119 Are you saying that most christians are actually creationists? There is a heretical troll who goes by the name of @Velayasha. According to her, southern christians are stupid, the bible allows for or mentions evolution, Jehovah is pro-homosexuality, you don't have to accept Jesus in order to get into the biblical heaven and mankind has existed in other forms prior to Gen1. This heretic can currently be found on the video: "God. Is. Imaginary." Go to her and set her straight.
@incomprehensible14 I meant most the Christians debating the since want to get both sides in the schools... however i do know that evolutionary Christians are very common and that makes them no less of a Christian just means they disagree on one small thing so i will not bash her for that and i read all the comments she posted that i could find and i didn't see one about homosexuality and or not having to accept Jesus to go to heaven so i cant slam her for that ether
@TheJason9119 PS If you reply to me from this video, you have my word that I will instantly delete your message from my e-mail without reading it. I absolutely WILL NOT read anything you have to say until you have confronted @Velayasha about her heresy on the "God. Is. Imaginary." video by @AngryLittleGirl. If you won't confront her, don't bother replying at all. BTW check out "Creationists and Transitional Fossils" and "Young Earth Creationism Disproved using the Speed of Light" some time.
@TheJason9119 There are christian schools for that & the constitution calls for a separation of church & state, which I'm pretty sure includes teaching religion. Public schools do however teach Greek Mythology (mostly for literary purposes), which may be to show how ridiculous ancient beliefs were. I kinda think they should teach some basics of the bible in public schools as well - I suppose they'd call it Hebrew Mythology.
@incomprehensible14 Well, there really isn't a problem with mainstream science, but rather a teaching system that ignores the possibility of a creator. It is true that God chooses his people, so a Christian will always be a Christian, but once a person is a Christian, he will desire the truth of Christianity...even in a secular school system.
@XXXFirebird76XXX Mainstream science doesn't address the possibility of a creator one way or another (though it certainly doesn't agree with the bible). AS I said before, if all "true" christians are incapable of leaving christianity, they should thank mainstream science. Maybe even invite people like Dawkins to regularly teach sunday school just to make sure their congragations stay "pure". As far as Gen1 goes (which is what I assume you and @Boxcutter7 are talking about)...
@incomprehensible14 You are looking at this backwards. A Christian needs only to thank God because it is God who does all the work. God separates the Sheep from the Goats. God uses Dawkins everyday. In my case, he has used Dawkins to strengthen my faith. I listen to Dawkins and Hitchens a lot. Many theologians take their arguments head on, which is what I think needs to happen. Unfortunately, Dawkins would bore a Sunday school class to death.
@XXXFirebird76XXX As far as I'm concerned, your religion is one of the single worst things to happen to my people so I assure you, there's no struggle. If Jehovah was real, he'd be the single most evil tyrant in all of history (ultimately,trumping even Satan) so I'm in no way shape or form dissappointed to know that he's no different from Zeus. Knowing that the majority of mankind isn't going to hell forever does not keep me awake at night.
@XXXFirebird76XXX PS Be sure to send Dawkins a "thank you" card and invite him to speak to your congregation. If he can't make it, perhaps you could give "the Atheist Experience" or James Randi a call.
@XXXFirebird76XXX An omniscient god would've had the foresight to mention additional light sources that existed prior to the sun. Instead, Jehovah goes on to claim that the moon is a source of light and that all the stars in existence are around 6-10,000 years old inspite of the FACT that this is clearly not the case. It's worth mentioning that according to the bible, water existed in liquid form even before the sun was created as well. The bible's authenticity as the word of god is suspect.
@incomprehensible14 Well, God did mention additional an light source. He was the light source.
Since you struggle with believing a creationist view of the world, which is understandable, I would move on to looking at the allegorical interpretations of the bible. It is my belief that the old testament is filled awesome allegories meant to convey the message of Jesus and the gospel.
@XXXFirebird76XXX "Well, God did mention additional light source. He was the light source." Oh, okay. And where exactly in Genesis 1 did Yahweh mention that? "Since you struggle with believing a creationist view of the world, which is understandable, I would move on to looking at the allegorical interpretations". What struggle? The only evidence that the bible wasn't meant to be taken literally is the FACT that it's easily proven wrong when it is.
1:35 Isn't this one of the people who say atheism's a religion? Why would it be worst to change to the "religion" of atheism than to any other religion? If ex-Christians were never Christians, that would make it impossible for you to tell who's really a Christian in this life wouldn't it? Your preacher might not be a real Christan. You yourself might not be a real Christian... must be scarey for you. 4:08 Are atheists who convert really still atheists, or were they Christian all along?
You could take *anything* in the bible and say someone's not "really" a Christian. How you *interpret* the bible is a completely different issue.
The fact is, in that situation, you used to fully be a follower/believer of that religion, with ALL intentions, which made you a Christian. Then if you leave that religion you are no longer part of that religion. It works for ALL religions. You do not get any loopholes, as no one is obligated to follow your belief/interpretation in the first place.
I might say that you are ironically making a "no true 'no true Scotsman'" fallacy by saying that Christianity is exempt. The whole point of this fallacy is the ambiguous definition of your subject matter. How many different sects and practices of Christianity are there now? If only one person who is generally acknowledged to be a Christian leaves the faith then there is support for a "former Christian."
1:37 Are you saying that all belief systems know the same God, or just being hypocritical?
You heard a nice story. Claims and promises were made.
You pushed away anything that suggested the story wasn't true.
You saw the claims and promises fail. Evidence piles up against the story.
You heard STORIES of the claims and promises being true, but never saw this yourself, ever (or claimed incidents turned out to be quite disappointing in reality).
A world of evidence piled up against the story, but still you held on...until you stopped lying.
Hebrews 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance.
According to your scripture one can in fact 'fall away'. You just can't go back. That's because people once you broaden your mind it usually stays that way. Evangelism FAIL.
"to be a Christian, that means that someone actually KNOWS God... and His spirit lives inside of him or her for-e-ver" - Daniel playing semantical gymnastics This is logically and factually incorrect. To be a Christian one just has to believe you have an intimate relationship with God. Claiming that you KNOW is textbook delusion
Why do you think you need faith if you're claiming to KNOW He exists?
Only 2 choices: Know God exists -or- have faith He does. Know=/=Faith, Oil/Water.
The problem with your definition is I would (as an atheist) have to conclude that *no one* is a Christian since in the absence of God it wouldn't be possible. In fact anyone who doesn't share your fundamental religious beliefs (Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, ect.) would find your definition meaningless.
In the interests of interfaith communication please consider developing a definition of Christian that would be universally accepted and meaningful.
Does this mean that if anyone has a moment of doubt (even in childhood) you are not a Christian? Does this only apply to people after they have accepted Christ and the existence of God?What if they "were a Christian", denied the existence of God, and then re-adopted Christianity thereafter? Are they Christian or not?
These guys just keep re-stating the fallacy. They haven't explained or refuted anything. Any adult who is convinced that they have a "personal relationship" with a mostly fictional character who now rules the universe, is delusional in the same fashion as someone who believes they've been married for twenty years and is still a virgin. Were these people ever christians like you? No you're right, they weren't. They were never that stupidly stubborn.
If I accept all of your points, you can't know if anyone is a Christian. You don't know if you will eventually become an atheist. You may claim that you've had a personal experience with God, but then I ask: what if you're in a simulation? What if this God that entered your mind was a program that some external prankster sent you? What if you're mistaken? You don't know if there is a God now, and you don't know if your beliefs will ever change. Thus, you don't know if you're a Christian.
There are plenty of ex-atheists out there, too, but no one's going around saying "Well, then you were never an atheist." Saying that ex-Christians were never really Christians is a non-falsifiable claim, it's dangerously close to Ray Comfort logic (ie "Jesus didn't appear when you prayed because you didn't pray sincerely enough").
Well fair enough, by that definition you can't be an ex christian atheist. But that will also mean you can't know that there are any other Christians than you. You might think there are other Christians, but you can only really be certain that you yourself are a Christan. The people in your church might really be atheists then, have you thought about that?
Also it is really not the point whether they were or weren't Christians. The point is they were convinced they were and so was everyone else.
This is part of the psychological manipulation of the religion, you either submit or you are rejected from the group just like you never been part of the group. Remember, you are nothing without Jesus. But the truth is the opposite: you are nothing with Jesus because with Jesus you cannot be yourself. God bless atheism.
Respond to this video... It took me only a moment, less than a half a breath, between one beat of the heart to accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior devoting the rest of my life to His Holy Service. It has taken me 12 years to realize what a fool I have been and how many Sundays I have wasted for nothing. Or else I wasn't really converted 18 years ago; in which case God will convert me in the future? This is getting silly.
@Kwinnky To expand on that we had a question put to use in New Testament studies class; " Does miracles produce faith or does faith produce miracles?" Surviving a near death / traumatic experience, people will claim it to be a miracle. Church people having faith that miracles do happen, just not to them, will want to believe that a miracle did occur. Facts are "Joe" was near death, Joe survived, it must be by the Hand of God. Miracle produced Faith, Faith produced a miracle. round and round and
I once literally believed in the entire myth of Santa Claus. Really believed. But as I grew older, wiser, thought for myself, did not just take my parents, g-parents, uncles, aunts, cousins, word about Santa, I stopped believing. My acknowledgment that there is no God came to me the same way. Using reasoning, thought, research, I came to the conclusion that there is no god. And let me add this; it took me a lot longer to come to this conclusion than it took me to become a Christian.
Would someone that invested in a obtaining a BA in Religion, held a position as Minster in a Baptist Church, lead many to know Christ, wrote several articles for Christian magazines, you may have even met and listen to his teachings about Christ yet your argument is either he was never a True Christian, or today he is not a True atheist. What verse says you are the judge of who is or is not a True Christian? But using the bible as a yard stick, then is it not your interpretation of the verse?
Would someone that invested in a obtaining a BA in Religion, held a position as Minster in a Baptist Church, lead many to know Christ, wrote several articles for Christian magazines, you may have even met and listen to his teachings about Christ yet your argument is either he was never a "true" Christian, or today he is not a "True" atheist. What verse says you are the judge of who is or is not a "true" Christian?
A "true Christian" is being defined by an irrelevant premise here. One's future theological position has little effect on its past. By claiming his conversion to atheism proves God wasn't "in him" from the start implies that God exists in the first place, let alone inside people of particular theological positions. Proving this requires faith in God, which in turn if someone finds to be invalid (=atheism) will be discarded. The argument is circular, you simply deny the atheist's position.
I used to be a christian, but then I became and atheist. Now YOU say, Oh well then your obviously weren't a TRUE christian. Oh wait that's not how your presented the argument. You threw a whole bunch of negatives in there to disguise No True Scotsman as something that was actually favorable to the christian stance. It isn't. Your retreat into this vague definition of a TRUE christian is seen as a weak reply to the positive evidence that your scripture is wrong.
You're right that I wasn't a Christian just like you. Just as no two people are alike, no two Christians are alike. It would be awfully arrogant of you to think that someone would have to have a "relationship" like yours or similar to yours with god in order to be genuine. You have your own quirky brand of Christianity that borders on narcissism and I had a quiet, curious brand of Christianity that wouldn't allow me to ignore the complete lack of feedback of any kind from god whenever I'd pray.
Sure, change the definition of a word to suit what you want, whatever. Let's play it your way for a minute:
You, Mr. Video-guy, might someday in the future renounce Christianity and become an atheist. (Deny it all you want, you can't tell the future anymore than I can. Come to grips with it). That would mean that you might not be a Christian right this very minute! How does that idea taste? Remember, this is using your own definitions and logic.
So by your theory, a Christian can only be a Christian if he keeps his faith until death? In that case, you might not be a true Christian.
Besides, this is a perfect example of the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy. Take a subjective reading of a text, form an absolute rule from it, and then apply it indiscriminately.
Going by your logic, if someone was married but was later divorced, did they never love their partner? Do you believe Lee Strobel or C. S. Lewis was never an atheist?
You don't know anything about me. According to Christianity and the Bible, yes I used to be a strong and faithful "saved" Christian. I used to debate against atheism and never doubted God's existence and would tell you that I never would. I asked him in my life sincerely and even had my life changed. You don't know me.
I was a believer my whole life and like other Christians, sometimes doubted. I did not become a "saved" Christian until I was 15 and I became a faithful "true" Christian for eight years. I was changed. I lost friends and everyone around me knew I had changed for the better. I got baptised and I loved to study and read the Bible. I loved to worship and praise. I no longer doubted my salvation nor God's existence and believed I never would. I witnessed and won others to Christ.
@JeremeK I have a BA in Religion from a Christian University. I had no doubt going in in the existence of God. However, historical research will prove beyond doubt that men have interpreted dead languages as they see fit, edited / changed wording, printed on paper / parchment their own individual version of the Holy Bible. Once that is acknowledged, one can begin to see how men have influenced and changed religion to fill their own needs. Men created God, not the other way round.
So did these "not true Christians" get un-saved after they got saved, or were they never saved to begin with? If they were never saved, then you might seriously ask yourself whether you're saved. Many people who left their religions were just as fervent in their faith as you, heard god's voice, and felt his grace, and never intended or wanted to lose that. How do you know you're a "true Christian"?
so you're telling me that there a large number of people who act, walk, talk, and live as chirstians,but because "god" hasn't decided to live in them that they aren't christians? Harsh. Does "god" yell "Denied!!!" and give them the finger too? sure sounds like a loving guy....
So using your logic, it is impossible for an atheist to become a Christian because they will not have had God's spirit living inside of them forever. Well, then, surely every atheist out there should give up trying to repent because there is no way for them to ever become a Christian. Thanks for your advice, now I know that there really is no point in believing in some invisible space magician because I can never be a true follower of said magician anyway!
So, you're not actually married until your "wedding night." So, you could say your vows, kiss, and then fuck a bunch of other people and it's not cheating on your spouse until you fuck your spouse?
And if you get a divorce, marry somebody else, and fucking the new spouse means you're cheating on the ex as marriage is forever?
I think the reason I say that I used to be a true Christian is to communicate that my subjective experience was the same as that of any other "true Christian." I believe I could say that all of the things you experience in your life that convince you of your relationship with God were at one time experienced by me. And it strikes me as presumptuous to claim with such certainty that they were not.
Though, I suppose presumption is the basis of religion.
I am not a christian, though I was raised by one and raised to be one. I'll admit, I was never a true christian. I am a Wiccan and proud to be one. I have always found the ways of nature to be more holy than the words of frocked men in large audience chambers. Perhaps you are right, and Christianity is the only true path...
You really can't make sense, do you ? Can only resort on poor rethoric as nobody can ever "know" god... BTW, the poor look and accent you give to the "atheist" in your video makes you pathethic...
I won't say anything about anyone's personal beliefs, and will just say that Arthur the Scotsman is the funniest thing to ever appear on YouTube. No offense, but your Scottish accent is horrible.
You guys are douche-bags and completely uninteresting in every way. You are also so unfunny it's disgusting. You make it easy to hate christians though so thanks for the retarded video and keep it up. You are your own worst enemies. You're so uncool that no one in their right mind would want to be anything like you.
I USED to be a christian, now im a pagan... fun huh? And its possible to be a true christian then go athiest, u just loose ur faith, u could have been so big in ur beliefes then, have a tragic event happen and loose faith, beliefes change all the time. U may have believed u knew the christian god then believe u didnt, i believe in know arwan, which makes me a true pagan, then turn athiest, does that mean i was never a true pagan?
Now on the count for marriage. Marriage in society can be the spiritual (church ordained, via a priest) OR societal (government contract, via justice of the peace). Both versions of marriage qualify as ``marriage`` in a true sense of the word. Now once the contract is signed, thats pretty much it (i personally was married in the church), the church doesn`t do a follow up for consumation & definately the governemnt doesn`t care at all about consumation. morso for the gov. contract, you`re married
To be a Christian means you know God...& yes you could know God for quite some time & then choose not to know God...much like you grow distant with a friend whom you once knew. Even if God or the "holy spirit" stays with you for-ever doesn't mean you have to acknowledge them. Any relationship...including God requires trust, faith & commitment...let anything grow lax, the relationship begins to falter...they could still be there but it doesn`t mean you`re paying an ounce of attention to them.
Narrow minded mental gymnastics. Deluding yourself doesn't make anyone a Christian OR an atheist. It just makes you deluded. Try having an "intimate, personal relationship" with a REAL person who actually EXISTS.
"A Christian can never deny the existence of God"
what a moron? (sorry for 'moron' i am just angry) what you mean deny God's existence what God you ever actually proven he exists in the first place. c'mon you cant deny something that isn't already true
The tower was built by men & never claimed otherwise. i fail to see a logical connection between saying something was built by people (who you could historically look up i might add), & saying there is a god (of which you can offer no shred of evidential proof).
@theTRUTHgroup I believe Italian gremlins built the Leaning Tower of Pisa - actually I KNOW they did! My god says that if you don't KNOW, but only BELIEVE, that She is the one true god that created the gremlins (who live underground and were never seen building the LTP), you will burn in hell! I am not threatening you, I am warning you that a "train is coming towards you", if you will, if you continue worshiping Jesus instead of the true god, a warning of the truth!
@theTRUTHgroup Thats a very bad example we know people can build we have seen evidence for that but not god at work we see life creating life we see evidence of natural causes governed by explained reasons. The only god example i could buy into would be if praying actually worked but it is proven to be left up to chance which is just as a good as not doing it at all.
@theTRUTHgroup "I do not know who built the Leaning Tower of Pisa but I know that he was real." But you claim to know who created the universe? Or are you a deist?
Christians have a dilemma...how do you know your God is the right one. What about Allah, the flying spaghetti monster, etc.? I'd expect you to say you do not "know" but that you believe on him to be true. Well that's fine for you but i prefer to keep faith out of the unknowable.
Plus if there is a God who made it. You can say It is eternal but that would be another faith statement.
What the hell? In the bible it pretty much says you must choose (free will) to believe Judeo-Christian God n that he is jealous of us having other Gods. No its God chooses ppl. That's a bit unfair and different from what the bible says.
Since every man is radically depraved, every man makes the choice to reject God because he hates God. They will not choose God unless he gives them the grace to do so. He only gives that grace to certain people.
Well i can't get with that type of thinking because like i said before there are more than one version of God so to say that the Christian one is right, without anytype of evidence is beyond me.
Plus i know you have atleast heard about Evolution, the most supported scientific theory out there.
Again, man doesn't pick the right God, God picks the man. Don't be worried about the responsibility of making the choice. If you aren't a Christian, then you haven't been chosen or you haven't been regenerated yet.
Evolution isn't a threat to Christianity. The bible leaves plenty of room for man to have been evolved. It sounds to me that you based your opinions on a lot of cultural Christianity says. If God awakens you, you will start to search for the real truth of Christ.
Really: "Evolution isn't a threat to Christianity. The bible leaves plenty of room for man to have been evolved." If this is so then that story at the beginning of the bible (Adam&Eve) is a lie. they cannot both be true.
There are many allegories in the bible. You don't have to take the story of Adam and Eve as literal. Just like story of the Noah and the ark. The ark represents Jesus and how he will save some people. When you study the bible, you can see the wisdom of the allegories and the deep truths they contain.
Hell is an existence without God's grace. Sometimes people ask why bad things happen, but the real question is why to good things happen. Even unbelievers are given a certain type of common grace. After death, that grace is removed and you will be given what you have chosen, which is a Godless existence. You will not experience the things God gives in common grace, such as love, trust, truth, happiness, etc...
@XXXFirebird76XXX What about the story of god creating light before the sun & stars; earth with plantlife before the sun & stars? Is that literal? What would jesus think about your username with the triple X's?
@Boxcutter7@Boxcutter7 If you want to take it literally, who says that our sun was the only source of light at the time? Also, the triple X's mean nothing in my username. I was just created a name. I wasn't thinking about the porn implications. =)
@Boxcutter7 I guess one answer could be because he didn't plan on continuing to be a physical light source in such a way. Of course, that would only be the case if the story of the creation is to be taken literally, which I don't think it is.
& "God picks the man. Don't be worried about the responsibility of making the choice." you are the first&only person i know who says wait&see if God will choose you...everyone else&the bible says YOU must repent&change your ways.
I dont see why you say things that aren't in the bible.
This stuff is in the bible. God is giving you the instructions of what you will start to do after he gives you the grace to believe. So you must repent and change your ways if you are a Christian. If you don't, God hasn't chosen you yet or will never choose you. Repenting and changing your ways is the evidence of God in your life.
Woah...repenting and changing your ways is evidence for God. Okay this is getting nowhere. If Adam & Eve is an allegory than where did sin enter the world. IF that was an allegory than there is no reason for Hell since the wage of sin is death & all sinners go to Hell.
Hold on. Don't read into things too much. Repentance is the evidence to a Christian that God has regenerated them through his grace. I'm talking about theology here, not proof for the existence of God. That is a different discussion.
Yes, Adam & Eve is an allegory. Sin entered in whenever man uses his free will to reject God, which is every single time. So from the time of your birth to your death, you will chose reject God unless he acts on you with his saving grace.
That's great. I'm done with this conversation. I'm sticking with science. & Part of evolution includes doing things which is sinful like killing your babies to get nurishments but i guess sin doesn't apply to animals. Eventhough animals are our ancestors.
I really dont think you realize that evolution and christianity cannot both be true. Because according to evolution some time in the deep future Man will no longer exist like dinosaurs. Peace and take care.
Of course evolution and Christianity can co-exist. With all due respect, you don't seem to understand what Christianity is. The only time in act is a sin is when it doesn't match up with God's will. He sets the standards.
In the future the entire earth is destroyed by our sun, but what does that prove? Science and Christianity walk hand in hand, but it seems that you only want to believe what you've heard about Christianity through culture and media.
it doesn't seem to me that you understand christianity either. & i know i dont either because the bible is so contradictory its rediculous. I dont think anyone understands it fully. But that doesn't concern me because it doesn't concur with science.
Plus there's still Pascal's Wager (more than one god to choose and which is right)
Although Christianity might never be fully understood, I've been doing a lot of studying the past few years to come to understand what I've been telling you. I feel the subject is too important to leave it up to the American and the media. Also, the bible doesn't contradict itself. You must look at it in it's entire context when considering any contradictions.
Pascal's Wager says that you might as well believe in God because it pays off if there is one. Not a Christian doctrine.
Pascal's wager - Both Islam&Christianity (but not limited to those) have a hell good luck picking the right one. You are not allowed to believe both because both Gods need your undivided belief for your faith to pay off. haha. Talk about a dilemma.
Like I said, you don't pick a God, you are picked. So no worries. Btw, since you are familiar with evolution, did you ever read about Darwin's racist conclusions about evolution?
Where in the bible or quran does it say that God picks you? i dont know if you are referring 2 when it says (Bible) God gives ppl ovr 2 a reprobate mind&gives dem delusions but dat is giving up on ppl, not choosing.
I've seen those racist conclusions. That doesn't make evolution racist. To say that Darwin fully understood evolution would be a fallacy because scientists are learning new stuff all the time that Darwin couldn't have possibly known. In evo u r'nt chosen u progress urself.
Do a Google search on "Verses concerning predestination".
In evolution, I wouldn't say "you progress yourself". It's more like a species progresses over long periods of time. You make it sound way too much like an individual endeavor. However, this still doesn't contradict Christianity. Your talking about the development of a species. Surely their can be a point in human history where God has a starting point for his plan.
the starting point for humans was at the beginning of time. At the creation. If evolution is true than the bible is wrong. you can say that sin comes in whenever a man transgresses the law but that is an interpretation other than the bible. You aren't addressing when sin began.
Is your argument against Christianity really based on the strict set of rules that YOU feel most comfortable with, or are you actually trying to make sense out of things? It seems like you have a biased opinion and you'll only go with what works best for your Atheist arguments.
Sin began when man first chose to go against God's will. So that time was around the period when man "officially" became a man.
Face it. Christianity can walk hand & hand with evolution. It's in theology.
You've got a logical fallacy problem with a claim you made. You say that you aren't that knowledgeable about Christianity, and then you go on to claim that I'm not either. How did you come to the logical conclusion that I must not know what Christianity is? I never made the claim that I didn't have that knowledge and you you did? For someone worried about logical fallacies, you don't seem to have a problem with obvious fallacies in a simple discussion.
What if someone has the fruits of the spirit produces "good works" (many christians say that good works don't make you a christian, but I digress), and then later on they find some stuff out, start questioning their belief, and become atheist/agnostic? Were they christian when they had the fruits?
No, you don't have to go beyond the universe to see "God". The Power of "God" is clearly seen by the things that are made.
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" Romans 1:20
Do you think Jesus would want you to wear that ridiculous amount of makeup that you do in your vids? And smirk & smile while talking about how non-believers are going to hell & former christians never believed? Not all former christians were just like "I go to church"; a lot of them were strong believers that talked to god all the time, worshiped him & had what they later found out to be a placebo relationship
I was talking about the ridiculous amount of makeup that kristinalovesjesus wears in her videos. It's not very modest for 1 thing. The placebo relationship is what they believed to be a real relationship with a god they couldn't see - the same kind of relationship you have with your imaginary god, you just don't think of it as a placebo. When you believe something without questioning it, you're convinced it's true, but you can later on question it & realize that it's not true.
This is just bollocks. I use to be a Christian, but through a process of about age 16 to 24 I lost any faith in God.
I use to do evangelizing, talking to strangers about God. I remember doing science projects on Creation. I remember my feelings back then and it was that I knew God was real and nothing at that time would change my mind.
How dare you try and judge my personal feelings without getting to know me.
You know your bible says to not judge people. So dont do it!
I'm willing to bet that you take pride in people pointing out the flaws in your logic and been told your full of sh*t. Because you believe that you are doing the work of god and that part of being a christian is to be given sh*t.
It's just an endless loop for christians. You can't reason with them because that's where they get there fuel from.
Someone can only act on what information they have with them.
I was a Christian, but I didn't have the knowledge, the arguments etc, than what I have today.
I could say that I'm convinced that my favorite Football team is going to win the finals because they never lost a game during the season. But I could change my mind until new information come in. What if 5 of my football teams star players broke there leg?
To think I was living a lie at any point is ridiculous, almost retarded.
## If a person who gives every sign of being a Christian is not really a Christian after all, but is a non-Christian without knowing it - he might be a Muslim without knowing it.
Which means all atheists on Youtube who used to be Christians, may well be Muslims without knowing it. Which is absurd. It also implies the speaker could be a non-Christian...
The idea that one cannot change from being a real Christian to being a real atheist, devalues human free will and self-knowledge.
This is true. The argument the author is making is just ridiculous.
Notice when he explains what a christians is he first says that someone has to KNOW god. That isn't really helpful giving that it must be the individual that defines what knowing God is. And depending how you interpret god, I could say I know god.
Then he uses what clearly is a metaphor of Gods spirit is living inside you. Because I'm pretty sure science hasnt found a spirit living inside someone lol.
Can children be Christians? Can a 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 years old be a Xtian? Can a 6 year old be a Christian, or would they just be accepting the religion of their community without having accepted Jesus personally. Is Dawkins right in condemning people who call their children Xtians?
How many of such "xtian" children and teenagers will grow up to become atheists? Does that mean they were never Xtians, if they became atheists? So it is right to not call such young children Xtian after all?
So if I become a vegetarian tomorrow, I was never in fact a carnivore. Good to know.
joshthesarge 3 weeks ago
Really not sure if this is satire or genuine. Gotta love Poe's law.
jackskellingtonsora 3 months ago in playlist More videos from theTRUTHgroup
"You were either not really a Christian before, or you're not really an atheist now."
Nonsense. I believed in Christ. Better than that: I KNEW Christ, in my heart, deeply and purely. I worshiped Christ, spoke to Christ, and recieved answers from Christ.
I held Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. I loved Christ.
How could someone do these things and yet still not be a Christian?
Better still: how do you know that YOU are a Christian, if these things are not indicative of Christianity?
FiverBeyond 4 months ago 2
What nonsense: the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy is precisely what the 'No True Christian' issue is. If you redefine 'Christian' so that it doesn't mean "Someone who believes the Christian doctrines", but rather, "Someone who never changes their mind about the Christian doctrines", then we conclude that there are NO Christians living today (since you can't know if you're Christian until you die, having lived your life without changing your mind.)
I used to be a Christian.
FiverBeyond 4 months ago 2
When it comes to science...creationist & evolutionist see exactly the same evidence...we just interpret the evidence differently. Creationist see things through biblical lenses while evolutionist see things through secular lenses. We creationist believe the biblical account of creation is the necessary starting point for your entire world-view. The bible gives us an incredible account of creation that's both awesome & accurate...I've yet to see evidence to the contrary.
newj34 4 months ago
his analogy is false. What if the man had screwed his wife and then gotten a divorce? Happens all the time.
peoplepowered1 5 months ago
I'm so happy about the part in the end. I have been carrying around the shame of having to say "I used to be a Christian" wondering how I could have been so stupid to believe all these supernatural things without evidence. Now I know I was never one to begin with. Thanks theTRUTHgroup!!!
ronpaulbot 6 months ago
Sad thing there are a lot of ppl who thinks there christains but have know clue about being born again, and there for are not really christains,, so I fully agree with you
JessaMesss 6 months ago
Excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!
October31st1517 7 months ago
Who needs a comforter?
How about a WTF blanket.
~
thenthelightningwill 8 months ago
LOGIC. You will never understand Science until you understand logic.
gregrutz 8 months ago 2
you know that alien from lilo and stitch, the one with one eye and green skin? guy in the geeksquad shirt sounds like him :)
poweratheist 9 months ago
There is one huge problem with your argument, it might make sense if you could actually demonstrate that 1) the holy spirit exists and lives inside people 2) so called ex-Christians were not spirit-filled. You have no way to prove this outside of your tautological system, you can't prove that you know God or that he lives inside of you, therefore your whole argument is invalid
redcommander27 9 months ago 4
As a Christian, I KNEW Christianity was true. And I knew that I knew it. And what's more, I knew that I KNEW that I knew it. Ad infinitum. I knew that Muslims only THOUGHT that Islam was true. But they didn't KNOW it. Oh, they thought they knew it. And they thought that they knew that they knew it. But they didn't KNOW that they...etc. But me? I KNEW it.
Or so I thought. Alas, I was not a True Christian, because now I don't know it. Guess instead of infinity "knew's," I shoulda had infinity+1.
Megaritz 9 months ago 2
thats a good thing I never was a Christian!
redbulborb 10 months ago
Lastly, you are saying that only a real Christian can *know* that s/he's Christian, and if s/he ever becomes an atheist, that means they never were Christian. That's like saying: I'm a vegetarian as long as I don't eat meat. If after 70 years, I suddenly have a steak, that means I was never a vegetarian. So I "thought" I was a vegetarian but never was one; only true vegetarians *know* what it *feels* to never crave meat. Hmmm, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
TheDanskTV 10 months ago 4
I am a Christian but also I've been studying philosophy from over a decade. (I don't consider thinking a sin). According to you nobody could ever know if they are a Christian or not, because subjective conviction counts for nothing. How could I know whether my personal relationship to Christ/God is real or not, if I cannot trust my own judgment? We are human beings, Christianity is a choice (a leap of faith), amongst many other religions. Pardon me, but your video is weak and embarrassing
TheDanskTV 10 months ago 7
@TheDanskTV Thank you!
Boxcutter7 2 weeks ago
This cuts both ways. As soon as you deny the reality of former Christians' Christianity, in light of their belief that they were once Christians, you open the door to the possibility that you yourself are mistaken in thinking that you are now a Christian. Maybe you're sincerely in error.
It's funny that, while trying to cast doubt on others' Christianity, for no discernible purpose, you've cast doubt on your own. What if *you* fall into apostasy? Are *you* then not a Christian now?
TenThousandSubbies 10 months ago
@TenThousandSubbies You've stumbled onto the very idea that drives science forward, ironically. All human knowledge is provisional, no matter how much any of us protests. Scientific ideas at least generally touch upon more than one person's experience, and so are less likely to be overturned.
If only *you* can know that *you* are a Christian, then you are on much shakier ground. You can't directly compare your experiences of God with others'. Your sample size will always be 1. What you've...
TenThousandSubbies 10 months ago
@TenThousandSubbies ...done, by making your own Christianity dependent upon the future, is made it falsifiable. It's ironic that you're so smug about the "difference" between your Christianity and that of former Christians since you would have to say say you can't know you're a Christian until you've died without becoming apostate. If you then say that formerly religious atheists are wrong about their own experiences, then you have to allow that you might be deceived, now.
See you in Hell.
TenThousandSubbies 10 months ago
I'm less curious of the argument than I am for the purpose of this argument. You're not looking to convert atheists, it doesn't seem. By the very last line it looks more like you're just taking this 5 minute video to lord your faith over less pious people.
Not incredibly polite. In fact that's downright rude and a generally crappy way to conduct yourself.
KurtDunniehue 10 months ago
@KurtDunniehue Yeah thank you! He proudly smirks while boasting that not only are billions of people that never believed are doomed to hell, but also potentially millions of supposed-believers that won't know if they are christians until they're dead.
Boxcutter7 2 weeks ago
So you have to consummate a marriage to be married? Were Mary and Joseph living in sin?
facekoo 10 months ago
@facekoo No Mary and Joseph were not living in sin, because God told Joesph not to lay with her.
TheDbeckner 10 months ago
once you start to see how powerful the cross really was.. and IS !.... you start to understand what Redemption really is. Christ died for the sins of the World....that means past,present, and future sins... heb. 6:13...there is no greater to swear by???? so god swore by himself.....why? 1) God commanded us to love him 2) o.k. if you love me i'll love you 3) o.k. love me or not ,,i'm going to love you anyway....unconditionally ...God knew the 3rd option was and is the best option!
lunabirdie 11 months ago
@lunabirdie I think a better option would have been to never have created sin. Then he wouldn't have to use a loophole in his blood sacrifice laws.
jesuriah 11 months ago
@jesuriah .....i woundn't know....it's the God show not the ...lunabirdie show!
lunabirdie 11 months ago
If people who leave Christianity were never really Christians in the first place, than why are you so afraid of mainstream science being taught in schools? I mean any believer who takes those classes would surely never walk away from Yahweh if they're "real" Christians. If anything you should thank evolutionists for seperating the wheat from the chaff and making sure only "real" Christians remain... you're welcome.
incomprehensible14 11 months ago 16
@incomprehensible14 as a christian i just want to say for most christian's it's not that we are afraid of "mainstream science" we just hate that you only hear one side in schools and its not that we think someone might fall away from the faith but someone will miss out by never starting there relationship with God
TheJason9119 4 months ago
@TheJason9119 Are you saying that most christians are actually creationists? There is a heretical troll who goes by the name of @Velayasha. According to her, southern christians are stupid, the bible allows for or mentions evolution, Jehovah is pro-homosexuality, you don't have to accept Jesus in order to get into the biblical heaven and mankind has existed in other forms prior to Gen1. This heretic can currently be found on the video: "God. Is. Imaginary." Go to her and set her straight.
incomprehensible14 4 months ago
@incomprehensible14 I meant most the Christians debating the since want to get both sides in the schools... however i do know that evolutionary Christians are very common and that makes them no less of a Christian just means they disagree on one small thing so i will not bash her for that and i read all the comments she posted that i could find and i didn't see one about homosexuality and or not having to accept Jesus to go to heaven so i cant slam her for that ether
TheJason9119 4 months ago
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incomprehensible14 4 months ago
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incomprehensible14 4 months ago
@TheJason9119 PS If you reply to me from this video, you have my word that I will instantly delete your message from my e-mail without reading it. I absolutely WILL NOT read anything you have to say until you have confronted @Velayasha about her heresy on the "God. Is. Imaginary." video by @AngryLittleGirl. If you won't confront her, don't bother replying at all. BTW check out "Creationists and Transitional Fossils" and "Young Earth Creationism Disproved using the Speed of Light" some time.
incomprehensible14 4 months ago
@TheJason9119 There are christian schools for that & the constitution calls for a separation of church & state, which I'm pretty sure includes teaching religion. Public schools do however teach Greek Mythology (mostly for literary purposes), which may be to show how ridiculous ancient beliefs were. I kinda think they should teach some basics of the bible in public schools as well - I suppose they'd call it Hebrew Mythology.
Boxcutter7 2 weeks ago
@incomprehensible14 Well, there really isn't a problem with mainstream science, but rather a teaching system that ignores the possibility of a creator. It is true that God chooses his people, so a Christian will always be a Christian, but once a person is a Christian, he will desire the truth of Christianity...even in a secular school system.
XXXFirebird76XXX 2 weeks ago
@XXXFirebird76XXX Mainstream science doesn't address the possibility of a creator one way or another (though it certainly doesn't agree with the bible). AS I said before, if all "true" christians are incapable of leaving christianity, they should thank mainstream science. Maybe even invite people like Dawkins to regularly teach sunday school just to make sure their congragations stay "pure". As far as Gen1 goes (which is what I assume you and @Boxcutter7 are talking about)...
incomprehensible14 2 weeks ago
@incomprehensible14 You are looking at this backwards. A Christian needs only to thank God because it is God who does all the work. God separates the Sheep from the Goats. God uses Dawkins everyday. In my case, he has used Dawkins to strengthen my faith. I listen to Dawkins and Hitchens a lot. Many theologians take their arguments head on, which is what I think needs to happen. Unfortunately, Dawkins would bore a Sunday school class to death.
XXXFirebird76XXX 2 weeks ago
@XXXFirebird76XXX As far as I'm concerned, your religion is one of the single worst things to happen to my people so I assure you, there's no struggle. If Jehovah was real, he'd be the single most evil tyrant in all of history (ultimately,trumping even Satan) so I'm in no way shape or form dissappointed to know that he's no different from Zeus. Knowing that the majority of mankind isn't going to hell forever does not keep me awake at night.
incomprehensible14 1 week ago
@XXXFirebird76XXX PS Be sure to send Dawkins a "thank you" card and invite him to speak to your congregation. If he can't make it, perhaps you could give "the Atheist Experience" or James Randi a call.
incomprehensible14 1 week ago
@XXXFirebird76XXX An omniscient god would've had the foresight to mention additional light sources that existed prior to the sun. Instead, Jehovah goes on to claim that the moon is a source of light and that all the stars in existence are around 6-10,000 years old inspite of the FACT that this is clearly not the case. It's worth mentioning that according to the bible, water existed in liquid form even before the sun was created as well. The bible's authenticity as the word of god is suspect.
incomprehensible14 2 weeks ago
@incomprehensible14 Well, God did mention additional an light source. He was the light source.
Since you struggle with believing a creationist view of the world, which is understandable, I would move on to looking at the allegorical interpretations of the bible. It is my belief that the old testament is filled awesome allegories meant to convey the message of Jesus and the gospel.
XXXFirebird76XXX 2 weeks ago
@XXXFirebird76XXX "Well, God did mention additional light source. He was the light source." Oh, okay. And where exactly in Genesis 1 did Yahweh mention that? "Since you struggle with believing a creationist view of the world, which is understandable, I would move on to looking at the allegorical interpretations". What struggle? The only evidence that the bible wasn't meant to be taken literally is the FACT that it's easily proven wrong when it is.
incomprehensible14 1 week ago
1:35 Isn't this one of the people who say atheism's a religion? Why would it be worst to change to the "religion" of atheism than to any other religion? If ex-Christians were never Christians, that would make it impossible for you to tell who's really a Christian in this life wouldn't it? Your preacher might not be a real Christan. You yourself might not be a real Christian... must be scarey for you. 4:08 Are atheists who convert really still atheists, or were they Christian all along?
incomprehensible14 11 months ago
You could take *anything* in the bible and say someone's not "really" a Christian. How you *interpret* the bible is a completely different issue.
The fact is, in that situation, you used to fully be a follower/believer of that religion, with ALL intentions, which made you a Christian. Then if you leave that religion you are no longer part of that religion. It works for ALL religions. You do not get any loopholes, as no one is obligated to follow your belief/interpretation in the first place.
DaFawky 11 months ago
Two words:
Special pleading.
That invalidates your argument. Now, just one word for you:
Asshat.
rohanwotan2 11 months ago 2
I might say that you are ironically making a "no true 'no true Scotsman'" fallacy by saying that Christianity is exempt. The whole point of this fallacy is the ambiguous definition of your subject matter. How many different sects and practices of Christianity are there now? If only one person who is generally acknowledged to be a Christian leaves the faith then there is support for a "former Christian."
1:37 Are you saying that all belief systems know the same God, or just being hypocritical?
klutterkicker 11 months ago
I love this guy...
bullviii 1 year ago
Excellent - right on!
markpianoman 1 year ago
Lovely portrayal of Scottish folk.
You heard a nice story. Claims and promises were made.
You pushed away anything that suggested the story wasn't true.
You saw the claims and promises fail. Evidence piles up against the story.
You heard STORIES of the claims and promises being true, but never saw this yourself, ever (or claimed incidents turned out to be quite disappointing in reality).
A world of evidence piled up against the story, but still you held on...until you stopped lying.
OptimisticCynic715 1 year ago
Hebrews 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance.
According to your scripture one can in fact 'fall away'. You just can't go back. That's because people once you broaden your mind it usually stays that way. Evangelism FAIL.
Mindaslight 1 year ago 4
Daniel, do even read your comment section? Because you're getting your ass handed to you, badly! I'm serious, this is embarrassing.
PainAddict666 1 year ago
"to be a Christian, that means that someone actually KNOWS God... and His spirit lives inside of him or her for-e-ver" - Daniel playing semantical gymnastics This is logically and factually incorrect. To be a Christian one just has to believe you have an intimate relationship with God. Claiming that you KNOW is textbook delusion
Why do you think you need faith if you're claiming to KNOW He exists?
Only 2 choices: Know God exists -or- have faith He does. Know=/=Faith, Oil/Water.
PainAddict666 1 year ago
LOL! All you're doing is repeating the fallacy, you haven't refuted anything!
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
I was a Christian until I read the Bible, then I became Agnostic.
I was Agnostic until I learned more about Science and Philosophy then I became an Atheist.
Shadowlit001 1 year ago
The problem with your definition is I would (as an atheist) have to conclude that *no one* is a Christian since in the absence of God it wouldn't be possible. In fact anyone who doesn't share your fundamental religious beliefs (Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, ect.) would find your definition meaningless.
In the interests of interfaith communication please consider developing a definition of Christian that would be universally accepted and meaningful.
studentofsmith 1 year ago
Does this mean that if anyone has a moment of doubt (even in childhood) you are not a Christian? Does this only apply to people after they have accepted Christ and the existence of God?What if they "were a Christian", denied the existence of God, and then re-adopted Christianity thereafter? Are they Christian or not?
You might be the only actual Christian.
drfoxcourt 1 year ago
These guys just keep re-stating the fallacy. They haven't explained or refuted anything. Any adult who is convinced that they have a "personal relationship" with a mostly fictional character who now rules the universe, is delusional in the same fashion as someone who believes they've been married for twenty years and is still a virgin. Were these people ever christians like you? No you're right, they weren't. They were never that stupidly stubborn.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
Circular argument and nothing else. This is just bullshit.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
If I accept all of your points, you can't know if anyone is a Christian. You don't know if you will eventually become an atheist. You may claim that you've had a personal experience with God, but then I ask: what if you're in a simulation? What if this God that entered your mind was a program that some external prankster sent you? What if you're mistaken? You don't know if there is a God now, and you don't know if your beliefs will ever change. Thus, you don't know if you're a Christian.
ThatBastardOverThere 1 year ago
Even though christians got there belief from the bible and you show the errors in there book they still believe in it.
wachnathan 1 year ago
"BUT THIS ISN'T A FALLACY BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS SO."
-This argument in a nutshell.
DaDoctaBoom 1 year ago
There are plenty of ex-atheists out there, too, but no one's going around saying "Well, then you were never an atheist." Saying that ex-Christians were never really Christians is a non-falsifiable claim, it's dangerously close to Ray Comfort logic (ie "Jesus didn't appear when you prayed because you didn't pray sincerely enough").
CHamlin86 1 year ago
actually that sounds pretty much exactly like the no true scotsman fallacy. or maybe you were never really an apologist to begin with either?
webmaster2089 1 year ago
Oh it's theRETARDgroup. Your logic is asspounding.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
Well fair enough, by that definition you can't be an ex christian atheist. But that will also mean you can't know that there are any other Christians than you. You might think there are other Christians, but you can only really be certain that you yourself are a Christan. The people in your church might really be atheists then, have you thought about that?
Also it is really not the point whether they were or weren't Christians. The point is they were convinced they were and so was everyone else.
RHawkeyed 1 year ago
This is part of the psychological manipulation of the religion, you either submit or you are rejected from the group just like you never been part of the group. Remember, you are nothing without Jesus. But the truth is the opposite: you are nothing with Jesus because with Jesus you cannot be yourself. God bless atheism.
tubetib 1 year ago
Respond to this video... It took me only a moment, less than a half a breath, between one beat of the heart to accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior devoting the rest of my life to His Holy Service. It has taken me 12 years to realize what a fool I have been and how many Sundays I have wasted for nothing. Or else I wasn't really converted 18 years ago; in which case God will convert me in the future? This is getting silly.
SpartanCaver 1 year ago
@Kwinnky To expand on that we had a question put to use in New Testament studies class; " Does miracles produce faith or does faith produce miracles?" Surviving a near death / traumatic experience, people will claim it to be a miracle. Church people having faith that miracles do happen, just not to them, will want to believe that a miracle did occur. Facts are "Joe" was near death, Joe survived, it must be by the Hand of God. Miracle produced Faith, Faith produced a miracle. round and round and
SpartanCaver 1 year ago
I once literally believed in the entire myth of Santa Claus. Really believed. But as I grew older, wiser, thought for myself, did not just take my parents, g-parents, uncles, aunts, cousins, word about Santa, I stopped believing. My acknowledgment that there is no God came to me the same way. Using reasoning, thought, research, I came to the conclusion that there is no god. And let me add this; it took me a lot longer to come to this conclusion than it took me to become a Christian.
SpartanCaver 1 year ago
Would someone that invested in a obtaining a BA in Religion, held a position as Minster in a Baptist Church, lead many to know Christ, wrote several articles for Christian magazines, you may have even met and listen to his teachings about Christ yet your argument is either he was never a True Christian, or today he is not a True atheist. What verse says you are the judge of who is or is not a True Christian? But using the bible as a yard stick, then is it not your interpretation of the verse?
SpartanCaver 1 year ago
Would someone that invested in a obtaining a BA in Religion, held a position as Minster in a Baptist Church, lead many to know Christ, wrote several articles for Christian magazines, you may have even met and listen to his teachings about Christ yet your argument is either he was never a "true" Christian, or today he is not a "True" atheist. What verse says you are the judge of who is or is not a "true" Christian?
SpartanCaver 1 year ago
Horrible Scottish accent.
nmaylo 1 year ago
A "true Christian" is being defined by an irrelevant premise here. One's future theological position has little effect on its past. By claiming his conversion to atheism proves God wasn't "in him" from the start implies that God exists in the first place, let alone inside people of particular theological positions. Proving this requires faith in God, which in turn if someone finds to be invalid (=atheism) will be discarded. The argument is circular, you simply deny the atheist's position.
NEXT.
sonickid001 1 year ago
I used to be a christian, but then I became and atheist. Now YOU say, Oh well then your obviously weren't a TRUE christian. Oh wait that's not how your presented the argument. You threw a whole bunch of negatives in there to disguise No True Scotsman as something that was actually favorable to the christian stance. It isn't. Your retreat into this vague definition of a TRUE christian is seen as a weak reply to the positive evidence that your scripture is wrong.
DieFatorLiveThin 1 year ago
You're right that I wasn't a Christian just like you. Just as no two people are alike, no two Christians are alike. It would be awfully arrogant of you to think that someone would have to have a "relationship" like yours or similar to yours with god in order to be genuine. You have your own quirky brand of Christianity that borders on narcissism and I had a quiet, curious brand of Christianity that wouldn't allow me to ignore the complete lack of feedback of any kind from god whenever I'd pray.
muterabbit 1 year ago
Sure, change the definition of a word to suit what you want, whatever. Let's play it your way for a minute:
You, Mr. Video-guy, might someday in the future renounce Christianity and become an atheist. (Deny it all you want, you can't tell the future anymore than I can. Come to grips with it). That would mean that you might not be a Christian right this very minute! How does that idea taste? Remember, this is using your own definitions and logic.
Luckfish3 1 year ago
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@seekatruth Leviticus 19:27 - "Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip the edges of your beard."
Anyone who disobeys this rule isn't a Christian. To hell with all you bald-faced unbelievers!!!
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
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@seekatruth Leviticus 19:27 - "Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip the edges of your beard."
Anyone who disobeys this rule isn't a Christian. To hell with all you bald-faced unbelievers!!!
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
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Englishdosser86 1 year ago
So by your theory, a Christian can only be a Christian if he keeps his faith until death? In that case, you might not be a true Christian.
Besides, this is a perfect example of the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy. Take a subjective reading of a text, form an absolute rule from it, and then apply it indiscriminately.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
So much for ......"Act as if you have faith, and faith will be given to you." I guess that was a lie too.
dave4248 1 year ago
daniel do you believe God puts ths Holy Spirt in everyone the very second they believe the Gospel?
737flyhigh 1 year ago
Going by your logic, if someone was married but was later divorced, did they never love their partner? Do you believe Lee Strobel or C. S. Lewis was never an atheist?
You don't know anything about me. According to Christianity and the Bible, yes I used to be a strong and faithful "saved" Christian. I used to debate against atheism and never doubted God's existence and would tell you that I never would. I asked him in my life sincerely and even had my life changed. You don't know me.
JeremeK 1 year ago
I was a believer my whole life and like other Christians, sometimes doubted. I did not become a "saved" Christian until I was 15 and I became a faithful "true" Christian for eight years. I was changed. I lost friends and everyone around me knew I had changed for the better. I got baptised and I loved to study and read the Bible. I loved to worship and praise. I no longer doubted my salvation nor God's existence and believed I never would. I witnessed and won others to Christ.
I'm now athiest.
JeremeK 1 year ago
@JeremeK I have a BA in Religion from a Christian University. I had no doubt going in in the existence of God. However, historical research will prove beyond doubt that men have interpreted dead languages as they see fit, edited / changed wording, printed on paper / parchment their own individual version of the Holy Bible. Once that is acknowledged, one can begin to see how men have influenced and changed religion to fill their own needs. Men created God, not the other way round.
SpartanCaver 1 year ago
So did these "not true Christians" get un-saved after they got saved, or were they never saved to begin with? If they were never saved, then you might seriously ask yourself whether you're saved. Many people who left their religions were just as fervent in their faith as you, heard god's voice, and felt his grace, and never intended or wanted to lose that. How do you know you're a "true Christian"?
AbbeyNormal 1 year ago
so you're telling me that there a large number of people who act, walk, talk, and live as chirstians,but because "god" hasn't decided to live in them that they aren't christians? Harsh. Does "god" yell "Denied!!!" and give them the finger too? sure sounds like a loving guy....
Pharaoh481 1 year ago
So using your logic, it is impossible for an atheist to become a Christian because they will not have had God's spirit living inside of them forever. Well, then, surely every atheist out there should give up trying to repent because there is no way for them to ever become a Christian. Thanks for your advice, now I know that there really is no point in believing in some invisible space magician because I can never be a true follower of said magician anyway!
Matsign 1 year ago 2
So, you're not actually married until your "wedding night." So, you could say your vows, kiss, and then fuck a bunch of other people and it's not cheating on your spouse until you fuck your spouse?
And if you get a divorce, marry somebody else, and fucking the new spouse means you're cheating on the ex as marriage is forever?
You're an idiot.
Delanoaidan 1 year ago
I think the reason I say that I used to be a true Christian is to communicate that my subjective experience was the same as that of any other "true Christian." I believe I could say that all of the things you experience in your life that convince you of your relationship with God were at one time experienced by me. And it strikes me as presumptuous to claim with such certainty that they were not.
Though, I suppose presumption is the basis of religion.
falconhockey08 1 year ago
Is everyone in Colorado Springs retarded or just most of you?
JoeBible 1 year ago
@grester lol. that analogy is stupid
cherrydog9 1 year ago
wwjd? he would act like a douche.
also, i used to be a xian. and you are engaging in the "no true scotsman" fallacy. doesn't matter how you deflect it.
cherrydog9 1 year ago
Or maybe your wrong.
LuminOfMoonlight 1 year ago
I am not a christian, though I was raised by one and raised to be one. I'll admit, I was never a true christian. I am a Wiccan and proud to be one. I have always found the ways of nature to be more holy than the words of frocked men in large audience chambers. Perhaps you are right, and Christianity is the only true path...
LuminOfMoonlight 1 year ago
You really can't make sense, do you ? Can only resort on poor rethoric as nobody can ever "know" god... BTW, the poor look and accent you give to the "atheist" in your video makes you pathethic...
Acrimonator 1 year ago
I won't say anything about anyone's personal beliefs, and will just say that Arthur the Scotsman is the funniest thing to ever appear on YouTube. No offense, but your Scottish accent is horrible.
OpiumSapiens 1 year ago
You guys are douche-bags and completely uninteresting in every way. You are also so unfunny it's disgusting. You make it easy to hate christians though so thanks for the retarded video and keep it up. You are your own worst enemies. You're so uncool that no one in their right mind would want to be anything like you.
conman4037 1 year ago 2
great mental masturbation BTW No True Scotsman 1st time I hear that and that doesn't help you because it's soooooo dumb
johnny1893 1 year ago
I USED to be a christian, now im a pagan... fun huh? And its possible to be a true christian then go athiest, u just loose ur faith, u could have been so big in ur beliefes then, have a tragic event happen and loose faith, beliefes change all the time. U may have believed u knew the christian god then believe u didnt, i believe in know arwan, which makes me a true pagan, then turn athiest, does that mean i was never a true pagan?
Shadowsilas 1 year ago
Now on the count for marriage. Marriage in society can be the spiritual (church ordained, via a priest) OR societal (government contract, via justice of the peace). Both versions of marriage qualify as ``marriage`` in a true sense of the word. Now once the contract is signed, thats pretty much it (i personally was married in the church), the church doesn`t do a follow up for consumation & definately the governemnt doesn`t care at all about consumation. morso for the gov. contract, you`re married
hexusziggurat 1 year ago
To be a Christian means you know God...& yes you could know God for quite some time & then choose not to know God...much like you grow distant with a friend whom you once knew. Even if God or the "holy spirit" stays with you for-ever doesn't mean you have to acknowledge them. Any relationship...including God requires trust, faith & commitment...let anything grow lax, the relationship begins to falter...they could still be there but it doesn`t mean you`re paying an ounce of attention to them.
hexusziggurat 1 year ago
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Jesus is a cunt. I'm glad he's dead.
666BlackMetalSoul 1 year ago
Narrow minded mental gymnastics. Deluding yourself doesn't make anyone a Christian OR an atheist. It just makes you deluded. Try having an "intimate, personal relationship" with a REAL person who actually EXISTS.
kizunaskywalker 1 year ago 17
"A Christian can never deny the existence of God"
what a moron? (sorry for 'moron' i am just angry) what you mean deny God's existence what God you ever actually proven he exists in the first place. c'mon you cant deny something that isn't already true
4mAALIKcHIN4 1 year ago
I do not know who built the Leaning Tower of Pisa but I know that he was real.
If I believed anything else, I would certainly be a moron.
theTRUTHgroup 1 year ago
This same old argument is so tiring, I have heard it so many times. Don't you have anything else up your sleeve?
Trying to compare something that you think is built because of its complexity to something today we know is built that has complexity.
I can't be bothered to explain why this argument is ridiculous.
Makes me so angry that I was conned by people like you in the past. Furthermore, now you are are conning other as well.
truckcompany 1 year ago 12
The tower was built by men & never claimed otherwise. i fail to see a logical connection between saying something was built by people (who you could historically look up i might add), & saying there is a god (of which you can offer no shred of evidential proof).
drakocarrion 1 year ago
@theTRUTHgroup What is your god's name.
JuniorDExchangecore 1 year ago
@theTRUTHgroup I believe Italian gremlins built the Leaning Tower of Pisa - actually I KNOW they did! My god says that if you don't KNOW, but only BELIEVE, that She is the one true god that created the gremlins (who live underground and were never seen building the LTP), you will burn in hell! I am not threatening you, I am warning you that a "train is coming towards you", if you will, if you continue worshiping Jesus instead of the true god, a warning of the truth!
Boxcutter7 1 year ago
@theTRUTHgroup Thats a very bad example we know people can build we have seen evidence for that but not god at work we see life creating life we see evidence of natural causes governed by explained reasons. The only god example i could buy into would be if praying actually worked but it is proven to be left up to chance which is just as a good as not doing it at all.
wachnathan 1 year ago
@theTRUTHgroup "I do not know who built the Leaning Tower of Pisa but I know that he was real." But you claim to know who created the universe? Or are you a deist?
Boxcutter7 2 weeks ago
@4mAALIKcHIN4
Honestly, you can't scientifically prove that I'm just not imagining your existence.
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 year ago
Christians have a dilemma...how do you know your God is the right one. What about Allah, the flying spaghetti monster, etc.? I'd expect you to say you do not "know" but that you believe on him to be true. Well that's fine for you but i prefer to keep faith out of the unknowable.
Plus if there is a God who made it. You can say It is eternal but that would be another faith statement.
4mAALIKcHIN4 1 year ago
@4mAALIKcHIN4
Christian theology teaches that It really doesn't matter who people think the right God is because God is the one who chooses his people.
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 year ago
What the hell? In the bible it pretty much says you must choose (free will) to believe Judeo-Christian God n that he is jealous of us having other Gods. No its God chooses ppl. That's a bit unfair and different from what the bible says.
4mAALIKcHIN4 1 year ago 2
@4mAALIKcHIN4
Since every man is radically depraved, every man makes the choice to reject God because he hates God. They will not choose God unless he gives them the grace to do so. He only gives that grace to certain people.
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 year ago
Well i can't get with that type of thinking because like i said before there are more than one version of God so to say that the Christian one is right, without anytype of evidence is beyond me.
Plus i know you have atleast heard about Evolution, the most supported scientific theory out there.
4mAALIKcHIN4 1 year ago
@4mAALIKcHIN4
Again, man doesn't pick the right God, God picks the man. Don't be worried about the responsibility of making the choice. If you aren't a Christian, then you haven't been chosen or you haven't been regenerated yet.
Evolution isn't a threat to Christianity. The bible leaves plenty of room for man to have been evolved. It sounds to me that you based your opinions on a lot of cultural Christianity says. If God awakens you, you will start to search for the real truth of Christ.
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 year ago
Really: "Evolution isn't a threat to Christianity. The bible leaves plenty of room for man to have been evolved." If this is so then that story at the beginning of the bible (Adam&Eve) is a lie. they cannot both be true.
4mAALIKcHIN4 1 year ago 2
@4mAALIKcHIN4
There are many allegories in the bible. You don't have to take the story of Adam and Eve as literal. Just like story of the Noah and the ark. The ark represents Jesus and how he will save some people. When you study the bible, you can see the wisdom of the allegories and the deep truths they contain.
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 year ago
I thnk Hell is an allegory.
4mAALIKcHIN4 1 year ago
@4mAALIKcHIN4
Hell is an existence without God's grace. Sometimes people ask why bad things happen, but the real question is why to good things happen. Even unbelievers are given a certain type of common grace. After death, that grace is removed and you will be given what you have chosen, which is a Godless existence. You will not experience the things God gives in common grace, such as love, trust, truth, happiness, etc...
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 year ago
@XXXFirebird76XXX What about the story of god creating light before the sun & stars; earth with plantlife before the sun & stars? Is that literal? What would jesus think about your username with the triple X's?
Boxcutter7 2 weeks ago
@Boxcutter7 @Boxcutter7 If you want to take it literally, who says that our sun was the only source of light at the time? Also, the triple X's mean nothing in my username. I was just created a name. I wasn't thinking about the porn implications. =)
XXXFirebird76XXX 2 weeks ago
@XXXFirebird76XXX Why would god create the sun & stars if there was already a light source; if he was the light source?
Boxcutter7 1 week ago
@Boxcutter7 I guess one answer could be because he didn't plan on continuing to be a physical light source in such a way. Of course, that would only be the case if the story of the creation is to be taken literally, which I don't think it is.
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 week ago
& "God picks the man. Don't be worried about the responsibility of making the choice." you are the first&only person i know who says wait&see if God will choose you...everyone else&the bible says YOU must repent&change your ways.
I dont see why you say things that aren't in the bible.
4mAALIKcHIN4 1 year ago
@4mAALIKcHIN4
This stuff is in the bible. God is giving you the instructions of what you will start to do after he gives you the grace to believe. So you must repent and change your ways if you are a Christian. If you don't, God hasn't chosen you yet or will never choose you. Repenting and changing your ways is the evidence of God in your life.
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 year ago
Woah...repenting and changing your ways is evidence for God. Okay this is getting nowhere. If Adam & Eve is an allegory than where did sin enter the world. IF that was an allegory than there is no reason for Hell since the wage of sin is death & all sinners go to Hell.
4mAALIKcHIN4 1 year ago
@4mAALIKcHIN4
Hold on. Don't read into things too much. Repentance is the evidence to a Christian that God has regenerated them through his grace. I'm talking about theology here, not proof for the existence of God. That is a different discussion.
Yes, Adam & Eve is an allegory. Sin entered in whenever man uses his free will to reject God, which is every single time. So from the time of your birth to your death, you will chose reject God unless he acts on you with his saving grace.
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 year ago
That's great. I'm done with this conversation. I'm sticking with science. & Part of evolution includes doing things which is sinful like killing your babies to get nurishments but i guess sin doesn't apply to animals. Eventhough animals are our ancestors.
I really dont think you realize that evolution and christianity cannot both be true. Because according to evolution some time in the deep future Man will no longer exist like dinosaurs. Peace and take care.
4mAALIKcHIN4 1 year ago
@4mAALIKcHIN4
Of course evolution and Christianity can co-exist. With all due respect, you don't seem to understand what Christianity is. The only time in act is a sin is when it doesn't match up with God's will. He sets the standards.
In the future the entire earth is destroyed by our sun, but what does that prove? Science and Christianity walk hand in hand, but it seems that you only want to believe what you've heard about Christianity through culture and media.
Peace
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 year ago
it doesn't seem to me that you understand christianity either. & i know i dont either because the bible is so contradictory its rediculous. I dont think anyone understands it fully. But that doesn't concern me because it doesn't concur with science.
Plus there's still Pascal's Wager (more than one god to choose and which is right)
4mAALIKcHIN4 1 year ago
@4mAALIKcHIN4
Although Christianity might never be fully understood, I've been doing a lot of studying the past few years to come to understand what I've been telling you. I feel the subject is too important to leave it up to the American and the media. Also, the bible doesn't contradict itself. You must look at it in it's entire context when considering any contradictions.
Pascal's Wager says that you might as well believe in God because it pays off if there is one. Not a Christian doctrine.
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 year ago
Pascal's wager - Both Islam&Christianity (but not limited to those) have a hell good luck picking the right one. You are not allowed to believe both because both Gods need your undivided belief for your faith to pay off. haha. Talk about a dilemma.
4mAALIKcHIN4 1 year ago
@4mAALIKcHIN4
Like I said, you don't pick a God, you are picked. So no worries. Btw, since you are familiar with evolution, did you ever read about Darwin's racist conclusions about evolution?
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 year ago
Where in the bible or quran does it say that God picks you? i dont know if you are referring 2 when it says (Bible) God gives ppl ovr 2 a reprobate mind&gives dem delusions but dat is giving up on ppl, not choosing.
I've seen those racist conclusions. That doesn't make evolution racist. To say that Darwin fully understood evolution would be a fallacy because scientists are learning new stuff all the time that Darwin couldn't have possibly known. In evo u r'nt chosen u progress urself.
4mAALIKcHIN4 1 year ago
@4mAALIKcHIN4
Do a Google search on "Verses concerning predestination".
In evolution, I wouldn't say "you progress yourself". It's more like a species progresses over long periods of time. You make it sound way too much like an individual endeavor. However, this still doesn't contradict Christianity. Your talking about the development of a species. Surely their can be a point in human history where God has a starting point for his plan.
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 year ago
the starting point for humans was at the beginning of time. At the creation. If evolution is true than the bible is wrong. you can say that sin comes in whenever a man transgresses the law but that is an interpretation other than the bible. You aren't addressing when sin began.
4mAALIKcHIN4 1 year ago
@4mAALIKcHIN4
Is your argument against Christianity really based on the strict set of rules that YOU feel most comfortable with, or are you actually trying to make sense out of things? It seems like you have a biased opinion and you'll only go with what works best for your Atheist arguments.
Sin began when man first chose to go against God's will. So that time was around the period when man "officially" became a man.
Face it. Christianity can walk hand & hand with evolution. It's in theology.
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 year ago
@4mAALIKcHIN4
You've got a logical fallacy problem with a claim you made. You say that you aren't that knowledgeable about Christianity, and then you go on to claim that I'm not either. How did you come to the logical conclusion that I must not know what Christianity is? I never made the claim that I didn't have that knowledge and you you did? For someone worried about logical fallacies, you don't seem to have a problem with obvious fallacies in a simple discussion.
XXXFirebird76XXX 1 year ago
I meant to say "NoW its God WHO chooses ppl. That's a bit unfair and different from what the bible says."
4mAALIKcHIN4 1 year ago
Great video!!! there are so many christians in the WORLD but, 1John tells us how to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith.
skilla23 1 year ago
What if someone has the fruits of the spirit produces "good works" (many christians say that good works don't make you a christian, but I digress), and then later on they find some stuff out, start questioning their belief, and become atheist/agnostic? Were they christian when they had the fruits?
Boxcutter7 1 year ago
Absolutely not.
FillTheirVoid 1 year ago
"You found out God doesn't really exist? Did you travel beyond the universe?"
Wait, so god is outside the universe (like that would be possible)? Then how can he be everywhere?
Boxcutter7 1 year ago
No, you don't have to go beyond the universe to see "God". The Power of "God" is clearly seen by the things that are made.
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" Romans 1:20
Tladams1986 1 year ago
Do you think Jesus would want you to wear that ridiculous amount of makeup that you do in your vids? And smirk & smile while talking about how non-believers are going to hell & former christians never believed? Not all former christians were just like "I go to church"; a lot of them were strong believers that talked to god all the time, worshiped him & had what they later found out to be a placebo relationship
Boxcutter7 1 year ago
What make-up are you talking about?
And, if they had a 'placebo' relationship, then obviously they didn't know the REAL God.
theTRUTHgroup 1 year ago
I was talking about the ridiculous amount of makeup that kristinalovesjesus wears in her videos. It's not very modest for 1 thing. The placebo relationship is what they believed to be a real relationship with a god they couldn't see - the same kind of relationship you have with your imaginary god, you just don't think of it as a placebo. When you believe something without questioning it, you're convinced it's true, but you can later on question it & realize that it's not true.
Boxcutter7 1 year ago
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This is just bollocks. I use to be a Christian, but through a process of about age 16 to 24 I lost any faith in God.
I use to do evangelizing, talking to strangers about God. I remember doing science projects on Creation. I remember my feelings back then and it was that I knew God was real and nothing at that time would change my mind.
How dare you try and judge my personal feelings without getting to know me.
You know your bible says to not judge people. So dont do it!
truckcompany 1 year ago 3
@truckcompany
And you know the said thing about your video.
I'm willing to bet that you take pride in people pointing out the flaws in your logic and been told your full of sh*t. Because you believe that you are doing the work of god and that part of being a christian is to be given sh*t.
It's just an endless loop for christians. You can't reason with them because that's where they get there fuel from.
truckcompany 1 year ago 2
If you were 'convinced' of God back then, and now you're 'convinced' against God now, WHEN should I believe you?
You were either living a lie back then or you're living one now.
theTRUTHgroup 1 year ago
Someone can only act on what information they have with them.
I was a Christian, but I didn't have the knowledge, the arguments etc, than what I have today.
I could say that I'm convinced that my favorite Football team is going to win the finals because they never lost a game during the season. But I could change my mind until new information come in. What if 5 of my football teams star players broke there leg?
To think I was living a lie at any point is ridiculous, almost retarded.
truckcompany 1 year ago
I guess the first commandment means absolutely nothing to you? EVERY Christian is breaking the first commandment.
christo930 1 year ago
@theTRUTHgroup yes, he was living in the same lie you actually live in...
Acrimonator 1 year ago
@theTRUTHgroup people change their minds. it's called being human.
cherrydog9 1 year ago
hahaha nothin but the cold hard truth to slap them atheists in the face
veroinuyasha 1 year ago
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truckcompany 1 year ago
## If a person who gives every sign of being a Christian is not really a Christian after all, but is a non-Christian without knowing it - he might be a Muslim without knowing it.
Which means all atheists on Youtube who used to be Christians, may well be Muslims without knowing it. Which is absurd. It also implies the speaker could be a non-Christian...
The idea that one cannot change from being a real Christian to being a real atheist, devalues human free will and self-knowledge.
5355vbxjbj76rvn 2 years ago
@5355vbxjbj76rvn
This is true. The argument the author is making is just ridiculous.
Notice when he explains what a christians is he first says that someone has to KNOW god. That isn't really helpful giving that it must be the individual that defines what knowing God is. And depending how you interpret god, I could say I know god.
Then he uses what clearly is a metaphor of Gods spirit is living inside you. Because I'm pretty sure science hasnt found a spirit living inside someone lol.
truckcompany 1 year ago 3
Can children be Christians? Can a 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 years old be a Xtian? Can a 6 year old be a Christian, or would they just be accepting the religion of their community without having accepted Jesus personally. Is Dawkins right in condemning people who call their children Xtians?
How many of such "xtian" children and teenagers will grow up to become atheists? Does that mean they were never Xtians, if they became atheists? So it is right to not call such young children Xtian after all?
kamikazee100 2 years ago 3
@kamikazee100 awesome point
cherrydog9 1 year ago