What's so bad about socialism? with William Baker

[StevenDaLuz]

tHE HOST NEVER SHUT HIS TRAP!!

[WingThaiJ]

I wish this host would shut up and let Baker speak; but even w/as little as the Baker spoke, he made important points.

[xJoeEDangerouslyx]

Hamina Hamina Hamina...

PWNED!

[ssmusic214]

Canada didn't have many bank failures because Canada didn't have "affirmative action banking" like "Community re-investment act". Canada bankers weren't forced by government to make loans to the people who couldn't afford them.

[BRAIDERMAN]

Jeez !! We (the US) propped up the other Central European banks - says Bill Baker !

He's an idiot trying to rewrite history from 2008. America had no money to lend any other country - they are fighting 2 wars and at the same time 'financially broke' The US relies on savings from Japan & China and all others, to give the US money by buying US bonds, then they print their own as well.

[BRAIDERMAN]

Huh! The American fed supported overseas banks ?? American capitalism has caused all the problems by selling their rolled up CDO's to overseas customers, thus spreading the bad debt virus. Australia also has stronger banking regulations, and today the AUS $ is heading towards $ 1.10 US, first time in 29 years the AUS $ has been so highly valued - partly because the US is printing money to pay off its debts.

[bradchesney11]

Many people want to go apeshit. No. Let me rephrase that: Many people need to go apeshit. The Government should allow people to get more in touch with their primordial instincts and do crazy shit. People want more spice out of life, not more bureaucracy and socialist crap. Instead of "spreading the wealth around, " the government should "spread the apeshit around."

And President Kurtz will make this a reality!

[bradchesney11]

There are so many options that most Americans aren't willing to consider or even discuss. The "Logan's Run" system where old farts are corralled into a chamber where they float around and disintegrate would save this country millions of dollars in Social Security and Medicare payments and lessen the burden of having to provide them dog food to eat in crappy retirement homes.

[miavaso]

What a good journalist. Actually studies his topics of discussion.

[websnarf]

Wow, what a poor debunking of that right wing letter. Now I remember why I stopped listening to Hartman. What's wrong with the letter is that in a typical classroom setting collaboration is not the norm. For socialism to work it relies on people working together towards a common goal. "Evening out the score" is a tendency, or a even goal in socialism, not an a priori rule. Test taking is inherently competitive and non-collaborative -- analogy dead.

[schligges]

supahsekzy- typical ignorant arrogant Ami. "ppl who want to excel...EU cant accomplish the growth..." meaning can't get rich at the expense/disregard of others/envrnmt b/c the sys protects agnst it. Germany= stable, innovative, strong econ. Ppl take advantage everywhere- esp. the US where wealthy take most of all. EU is ethnic homog? Proving, once again, most Amis are clueless abt things outside the US. Tip: save ignorant commts for other ignorant Amis b/c ur embarrassing urself & ur country.

[supahsekzy]

@schligges You need to learn how to spell before trying to make substantial written arguments.

[schligges]

supahsekzy- typical ignorant arrogant Ami. "ppl who want to excel...EU cant accomplish the growth..." meaning can't get rich at the expense/disregard of others/envrnmt b/c the sys protects agnst it. Germany= stable, innovative, strong econ. Ppl take advantage everywhere- esp. in US where wealthy take most of all. EU is ethnic homog? Proving, once again, most Amis are clueless abt things outside the US. Save ignorant commts for other ignorant Amis b/c ur embarrassing urself & ur country.

[truefaith00]

If anything, we're becoming closer and closer to 100% fascism.

[websnarf]

@truefaith00 : So do you think there will be a rise in "Kent State Massacre's"? How about COINTELPRO -- do you think the government is likely to re-institute that? Do you see a return to McCarthyism? Do you think we are likely to invoke the death penalty for treason?

Stop listening to Hartmann and Alex Jones, and start listening to Chomsky. Life has been getting better; we're just more *aware* of the bad parts of modern society because we're living in it.

[truefaith00]

@websnarf

I didn't hear it from the names you listed, just my history professor.

[HawK047]

Socialism works in europe.

All you Americans think about is the money snatchers, that dont do jack shit. Well its not socialism's actual intention to give them money, its actually one of the problems about socialism.

Think about the good things. Free health care, government helping to pay for your childrens educations, people that CANT work will be able to pay their bills, people actually caring a bit for another.

Adolf Hitler wasnt socialist, he was national socialist, which isnt left at all.

[supahsekzy]

@HawK047 Socialism EXISTS in europe, but does it work? For a nation of people who want to excel, i.e. Americans, no, it does not work. Countries in Europe cannot in their wildest dreams accomplish the economic growth we have. Not to mention that Holland and all of those countries you speak of are ethnically homogenous - that is, they're all middle class white people who work and pay taxes, not to mention that the size of one of those countries is the same as one of the US's states.

[BLAZE45]

@supahsekzy WE HAVE NO MORE ECONOMIC GROWTH WERE LOOSENING MONEY, WE CONSIDER MEXICANS TO THE OTHER COUNTRY'S NOW,NOT TO SOUND OFFENSIVE

[supahsekzy]

@HawK047 The ironic thing about socialism in general is that it functions better on smaller scales. I.e. socialism would work fine in a small tribe of people - because if the 1 or 2 fishermen in the tribe don't fish, everyone feels those consequences. In a bigger socialist society consequences are diluted. Socialism works on a small scale because the smaller the scale, the closer that system approximates a capitalist system of rewards.

[supahsekzy]

@HawK047 And one last thing. I don't want our healthcare system to suck and moving towards a socialist agenda, because then I can't get the healthcare I need no matter what amount of money I'm paying.

[BLAZE45]

@supahsekzy BUT YOU WOULDN'T BE PAYING

[websnarf]

@supahsekzy : Tell that to the Canadians, who have by far, more access to health care.

[supahsekzy]

@websnarf A relative of mine who lived in Vancouver died of cancer recently. During the process he was refused so much healthcare it was unbelievable. He was in so much agony that he couldn't wait to die. If anyone is going to be choosing my healthcare, it should be me. Not a government who doesn't even know who I am, let alone care if I live.

[lisabob22]

@supahsekzy and the private insurance companies give a damn about you? The government is us,and we can vote out the bastards if we want. Try to fire a insurance executive. Wake up, the insurance industry is one of the most corrupt, immoral industries there is.The insurance industry does have death panels.

[supahsekzy]

@lisabob22 Do you really think bad govt is easier to get rid of than bad business? At any time you as an individual can get rid of your insurance company and take your business elsewhere. On the other hand you have no choice but to comply with govt, and especially on the federal level problems never go away. Let's face it, business created the standard of living we enjoy today, while incompetance in government is eternal.

[WingThaiJ]

@supahsekzyGood point.Gov doesn't have to learn from mistakes; rather than correct how they do things, they just steal more&justify it via calls warfare,as though takg in more$will change anythg.Just gives Gov more $to throw away.For tax revs to do anythg, they need to allow bus.to be able to plan their budgets&allow them to expand.Obama admin is anti-bus;so what good is takg in more revs?To hand it to companies like Solyndra who were donors or went bankrupt?Wld have been FIRED in private sector

[ZeckRichards]

Socialism doesn't seem that bad. I say give it a try.

[yomamalikeme1]

if a socialist countrie does not oppress its people then it is democratic socialist.....the happiest countrie DENMARK is a democratic socialists....venezuela, burma, laos, north koera is not socialist they are communist a big difference...

[pulsatingremedy]

@yomamalikeme1

I fear that you don't know the definitions of terms.

Democratic socialism = reformist socialism.

Denmark is social democratic.

Social democracy = capitalism with some wellfare programs.

North Korea is by no means communist.

Communism = classless and STATELESS society.

North Korea is state socialist.

[cabgt]

I'd love to see Peter Schiff on this show. He'd eat this host alive. The biggest reason for booms and busts is inflation (loose monetary policy), to sum it up. Higher taxes destroys economies and reduces tax receipts in the long term. Even JFK discovered this.

[roscoebcoe]

Just like technology is perfected, so are ideas. There's nothing wrong with socialism. Every beginning starts out with struggles. Capitalism was no different. The difference between now and previous eras is that now, the common people are smarter. They realize that they no longer have to struggle under the foot of Capitalism if they are willing to unite. This day of the Common Peoples' enlightenment was and still is the main fear of the rich and powerful

[supahsekzy]

@roscoebcoe Socialism inherently gives more power to the government. This is why it's so easy to use it to oppress people. Capitalism limits the government and gives more power (and consequently more responsibility) to the people. This is why capitalism had promise (as was proven by America) whereas socialism did not (Hitler, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, Mother Russia. Yes, communism is an offshoot of socialism)

[cabgt]

@supahsekzy Amen.

[2010cynic]

@supahsekzy Capitalism leads to longer bouts of unemployment. It also rewards people with money, even if they didn't 'earn' it, or 'work hard' for it. It also leads to some believing that socialism is best represented by the most extreme examples. And how is communism an offshoot of socialism? Yes, those examples of socialism were bad, but it's not the only possible outcome. "Mother Russia" wow, that sounds so nostalgic. Lame-o

[supahsekzy]

@2010cynic I haven't seen any possible outcome that's been good. No socialist country has come close to attaining the wealth of any of the capitalist ones. Mother Russia is just one example of many, and many of which exist today. Capitalism creates wealth and therefore employment. And there's no way to get money in a capitalist society without earning or working hard for it, unless government interferes - Just like every bailout in history.

[supahsekzy]

@2010cynic The bottom line behind socialism is this: If you think socialism can work, that means that you think that the government has the capacity to do good, and therefore should be given more power thinking the government will not abuse it. I for one cannot bring myself to this conclusion; I believe government is inherently evil, that government abuses every power it gets. Therefore I believe in restricting government as much as possible - ergo, I think socialism is a bad idea.

[HawK047]

@supahsekzy Yeah right. Only in America.

Holland has been social democracy for a long time, and its worked. The only thing stopping it is rich people that dont want to turn up for people with shitty jobs, which is bullshit because everybody has the right to be able to pay their bills here.

The strong need to take care of the weak, because we're all in this together.

The only ones that need punishing are the greedy rich and the lazy poor.

[substanti8]

Even if his guest is a Libertoon, Hartmann would do better to let the guy talk more.

But I loved the beginning: 0:32

"... not the way Karl Marx used [the term socialist] ... Right?"

- silence -

LOL ... Has the guy even read Marx?

[ANCHORSaweighMYboys]

nations rise and fall because of "what the founders thought". in order for our nation to last we must accept change. however we shouldnt put our faith in a new coffin. we must kepp allways the best thing about our gov, that in a sec with a vote we can go from any any extrem from the other. if needed we can have complete socialization, then turn back to any other needed system when needed. hell if needed the next big war fuck it fascist america could woop some ass.

[captcrais101]

WHere have I heard the name WIlliam Baker before? His name sounds famialar in politics.

[hitssquad]

The host's figures are wrong. The real figures: truthandpolitics. org/top-rates. php 1910 0 0 0 7 7 7 15 67 77 73 1920 73 73 58 43.5 46 25 25 25 25 24 1930 25 25 63 63 63 63 79 79 79 79 1940 81.1 81 88 88 94 94 86.45 86.45 82.13 82.13 1950 84.36 91 92 92 91 91 91 91 91 91 1960 91 91 91 91 77 70 70 70 75.25 77 1970 71.75 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 1980 70 69.125 50 50 50 50 50 38.5 28 28 1990 28 31 31 39.6 39.6 39.6 39.6 39.6 39.6 39.6 2000 39.6 39.1 38.6 35

[anchoredwunderlust]

wow... socialism means something so different in america than it does to countries that see something like free healthcare as an obvious human right, and not particularly left wing.

im in a socialist students group at my uni, and i must say, the socialist party ideals are a million miles away from how this country (UK) is

[conradjulian]

Thom says what I've said for years: Libertarians can't get their story straight about the Federal Reserve. They want to privatize as many of the functions of the government as possible; yet they complain about the privately owned Fed. So now they want to use men with guns to terrorize the Fed's private owners and violate their property rights.

And this differs from socialism how?

[gsrxx420xx]

@conradjulian where in the constitution does it call for a central bank?

[conradjulian]

The Constitution doesn't "call" for a lot of things that Congress and the courts have decided don't necessarily conflict with it. The original Constitution didn't "call" for the government's power to manumit slaves, either.

[TheKuffarKid]

@conradjulian We are by law required to obtain the Feds product is the difference.

[conradjulian]

So? The system proposed by the Fed-hating cranks would require you to use gold, like characters in a pirate movie.

[TheKuffarKid]

@conradjulian You miss the point. Theres nothing in the constitution that requires you to OBTAIN gold. In other words if you were a dentist and I were a carpenter and we worked out a deal to trade labor - you fix my kids teeth and I build you a deck - then we walk away even-steven. The gov 's income/payroll tax requires us both to now OBTAIN fed reserve notes to pay them "their share" .

[jimlaregina]

Thom Hartmann knows the facts and all WIlliam Baker knows is cockamamie theory.

[208975]

*ITS THE CONSTITUTION STUPID*

[mtnluke]

ok retards. so if you can't explain anything, blame the FED and then end of story, end of debate. You little fucks. I say that to all of you. I could care less about right or left.

[Navywxman]

Thom good job at schooling the Libertarian economist.

I find it interesting how ideology can cloud someones mind so profoundly that they mistake that ideology for reality as LIbertarians do routinely

[xoxgodofgodsgodxx]

I am not ignorant of socialism though.

Socialists (mostly those who looked toward Bakunin) actually want a decrease of government, and at the very least and increase in liberties.

[xoxgodofgodsgodxx]

I agreed with him, somewhat when he said that the economic mess was the cause of pseudo-libertarianism. Although i was thinking why he didn't use better words to drscribe it, like corporatism disguised by the politicians to be free market.

What irks me is how the host at the end says the fed is super libertarian. Besides the fact that they are supported and were created by the government. It takes two to tango, and of course the people paying for the lessons aren't having that much fun.

[hugolp]

European here. Pseudo-libertarianism in the USA? hahahah what a moron.

I will never understand why USA people want to be like us. Europe is collapsing. Greece has been in revolt for months, the FMI is silently intervining it now. The EU is shaking all over the place. I could go on forever. Moron.

[xdir]

and what was the Party in power in Greece for the past 6 years?

[hugolp]

A interventionist/socialist party. All parties in Europe are interventionist/socialist, although the rethorics are different.

[xdir]

I suggest you go tell the New Democrats they are socialists, they still think they are center right...

[hugolp]

Listen, in the nordic countries the "right" or "conservative" have been in goverment for years now. Does that mean they are not interventionist/socialist countries? Its the same with Greece.

[xdir]

Can you name a Nordic country with Right/Conservative Government?

[bohemianwriter1]

What we need is a complete shift of paradigme.

[funeralsong34]

I heard from the guy on the phone, ummm dam you have facts on your side & have specifics about Presidents dropping & increasing income tax on the top 1%...lol It's funny when people try to pass off bullshit theory & get hammered by facts like the caller did, they are speechless..lol

[toeg1]

Mr. Hartmann,

Very well done. You are absolutely right. There is nothing inherently wrong with Socialism. In fact, the modern versions that are being promoted in Venezuela, Bolivia and elsewhere are providing ample dividends for the local populations.

Haiti is receiving doctors and medicine from Cuba, fuel and food from Venezuela, and soldiers from the US. It's time we tried a less destructive method of economics.

[EmperorProzen]

@toeg1 Competition in a capitalist economy yields better products and more efficient processes in all fields of man's activity than in a socialist economy.

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government."

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."

Thomas Jefferson

[toeg1]

@EmperorProzen,

You're absolutely right. The $14 trillion that the bankers stole from the American people amply prove your point. The poor will suffer more, the middle class is disappearing, but the bankers are richer than ever.

Point well made, bravo.

[agitcam]

There's no cause and effect there for this guy because it doesn't fit his model.

[gsrxx420xx]

this host really does not understand the effects of central banking....

[gsrxx420xx]

ron paul 2012!!

[libertyplayground]

i wish the left-liberal would study economics

try socialism by mises

then he'll know whats bad about socialism

study after study shows that small government is economically better.

and governments cannot perform economic calculation.

[LouieArrighi]

try realizing that Von Mises, Friedman, and Murray Rothbard were Jewish shysters, and realized that non-Jews don't go to University to study economics, and buy their baloney because it sounds clean and simple. have you gone to a University to study economics? NUFF SAID

[rwcbanzai]

When did Social + ism become a bad word?

Thru 30 yrs. of Voodo economics & Rwing propoganda!

A democracy (we the people) by defintiion when put into action is Socialism!

It took social beings to draft our constitution, create a government & defend u.s. from totalitarianism!

[gsrxx420xx]

sorry to inform you that we dont live in a democracy, for that very reason...

[rwcbanzai]

gsrxx420xx your eyes without a face.

You can't even inform yourself.

uTube is free social- ism where humans trying to be human can share their experience with a civil society!

[TheCapitalistdog]

@rwcbanzai

Youtube is also private company, with private investors who have taken risks, to provide this service to us.

This gives youtube the right to set their own rules. They can ban whoever they want, restrict whatever content they want, advertise however they want, etc.

Market Competition has also formed against youtube. There are dozens of good video alternatives that are growing more popular every day

This proves once again, private companies are better at providing public services

[rwcbanzai]

@TheCapitalistdog:

Your eyes have no face!

Compaies are not human

I"m not here to listen to your ad-hoc dogmatic ramblings.

Go play with your company till they hang you with their leash!

So good luck in trying to be human.

In Corporate reality you don't exist!

[TheCapitalistdog]

@rwcbanzai

Wow, you go went ad-hominem faster than i expected... way to dodge your foul up

"In Corporate reality you don't exist!"

On youtube I exist. On youtube you exist. It's the medium in which we are exchanging right now. Youtube is a private company, formed by private individuals for profit and market shares, like it or not

You claimed it was an example of socialism, I showed it's an example of free-market forces. Where does that leave us?

I guess i'll go back to non-existence

[gsrxx420xx]

@TheCapitalistdog awesome response lol

[gsrxx420xx]

@ rwcbanzia, your head has no brain

yea because youtube is provided by the government right? please take your head out of your ass and contribute something with some substance......

[DaHonestAbe]

Socialism has been a terrible buzz word for about the past year. And I found it funny that the right called Obama a marxist. Apparently, they've never read Marx. And if they did, they managed to find something about bailing out corporate fat cats.

[mrzack888]

US would be a powerful country indeed if it were to follow Europe and Canada's system of socialism.

[HulksHeroes]

This red neck got his ass handed to him. If "I study this"....he better go back and study again a little more in depth.

Any f*cking fool can write a book. The lipstick pig proved it.

[styrofoamheart]

why do these dipshits even debate hartmann? conservatives don't know what the hell they are talking about.

[mrzack888]

@styrofoamheart they are a walking contradiction. amazing.

[styrofoamheart]

contradiction is the nice term. i usually say hypocrite.

no government intervention, except to regulate what a person does with their body. no taxes but maintain a huge military. prayer in school but no healthcare for kids.

what are these people smoking?

[OfficialDarkKnight]

@styrofoamheart

Indeed. A political ideology that constantly seeks to vindicate the notion of private institutions, actually opposing the [private] Federal Reserve system is a complete paradox.

Charlatans like Ron Paul evade owning up to the disconnect by evoking the Constitutional mandates. Well, who ever said the founders prescribed to the theories of these so-called libertarians in the first place? They may have believed in market principles, but that doesn't make them Milton Friedman.

[styrofoamheart]

the founders were against the monetary system we have today. the system we have is based on the same corrupt English monetary system the founders fought to escape.

[conradjulian]

Who cares what "the founders" thought? They're just as dead as the guys who met on Jekyll Island to plan the Federal Reserve. Dead people can't tell us what to do TODAY. The Fed, which some people apparently confuse with the mafia, works well enough in most areas. If some of the things it does causes problems, we need to change its rules and regulations so that it works even better.

[styrofoamheart]

i care what the founders thought if i can use it to learn from history. a fractional banking system based solely on credit inherently favors the wealthy. it was a major factor for the american revolution in the first place. how do you propose to fix it through regulation? how do you undo the abolishing of the gold standard?

[conradjulian]

Again, you can't get your story straight. Inflation transfers wealth from creditors to debtors. (If you owe money during inflation, you can pay the loan back with cheaper dollars.) Why would banks want to screw themselves that way by inflating the currency? Why do they want to give their debtors an indirect subsidy? We should thank central banks for the bonus they've given us.

[styrofoamheart]

good point on inflation.

[lynchmobb2000]

@styrofoamheart

Adam Smith from the very beginning... greed is okay because it's guided by an invisible hand. WTF?!

I think the next time I'm speaking with a conservative I'm going to tell him that socialism is guided by an invisible hand. Apparently one can just insert skyhooks into one's economic theory!

Cheers

[JSparkleZ2]

True liberals are not well funded in the media and are largely unheard of...

The cons go in thinking he's gonna be a push over like the ones they are used to seeing...