The idea to have it on all-terrain vehicles was mainly to have the system very quickly at places difficult to trace and access (sabotage protection) and at the same time to be able to move from place to place on a regular basis in order to disable an enemy targeting. So I thought a one vehicle solution would be best at place.
Could the Patriot System (3 components) be loaded on one very large all-terrain truck, like an Oshkosh and be an equivalent of the "Scuds"? Or does is already exist?
@ALB437 It wouldn't really be possible or reasonable to do that. What you would end up with is an "Australian Land Train" (look it up). Plus it would make much more sense to have it spread out on other trucks.
@franknbeans4761 - My idea was to have 1 truck ready for a fast deployment wherever required and in difficult accessible terrains. Could be spread all over the country. I have seen the Patriot System in Paris (Le Bourget 2009) and the main vehicle looks more like a loader to me.It is not clear to me what you mean by "Land Train", or which would be the advantage to spread it out on other trucks. Of course looking at a picture the 2 smaller components would have to be minimized to be assembled.
@ALB437 I know the Patriot is normally spread out over an area, along with it's radar, command vehicle, & logistical support. If they need to move, they just have their individual vehicles go get them, it is much faster than one vehicle carrying several.
But otherwise all the Patriot launchers are normally set up, waiting to fire.
@SouleXtasis I would say the 1,000+ Patriots are much better than the small amount of S-400's. Also, the THAAD is probably equal to the S-400 & the AEGIS BMD system is better than the S-400 in many ways.
@franknbeans4761 quantity vs quality, the russian have is own response vs aegis system, have u heard about the S-500, vitaz and Morfey Systems? US had always more founds then the russians, but they have the need to have an answer... y don´t have nothing against the US but since WW2 the russians are ahead when it concerns to misiles, how was first to go into space? and the US really went to the moon? and if they were why have not returned?
@SouleXtasis Yes I have. Both the S-500 & Morfey are years away from entering service. In fact, the S-500 was slated to come out in 2015 but is behind schedule & might not be here until 2017.
What do you mean about the moon? We had several Apollo missions that were very successful, how do you think we brought back moon rocks?
But the US still has the THAAD & the AEGIS BMD which is superior to anything Russia currently has & in greater numbers.
@franknbeans4761 Where do you get that information? from Discovery.. History Channel or another US made propaganda? S-500 and Morfey systems are to enter in service in 2013 and THAAD system is not superior to s-400 just see the specifications, and the Aegis system who are you so proud about is nothing vs Moskit misile and his remplace P-800 Onyx, US have great weapons and a enormous stockpile i admit it! but in this case the actual best Anti air system is the S-400 at least in specifications
@SouleXtasis That is what I was thinking of, 2013 not 2015. I botched the release date of the S-500, but I guess it is behind schedule by 2 years and won't enter service until 2015, so the S-400 will have to do (which is plenty good). But the AEGIS BMD has a range of 500 km. The S-400 is 400 km.
But the Moskit has a top speed of Mach 3 & a range of 120 km (which is very small). 120 km at Mach 3 takes 1:57 to reach a target. Plenty of time to launch multiple missiles to intercept it.
@franknbeans4761 Aegis system is a multi weapon complex based on the Phalanx CIWS, mark 41 VLS, many radars like the AN/SPY-1 and of course the sistem have a capability range of 500 km thanks to his SM-3 Misile but now we are talking about sea versions, i admit it SM-3 misile have more range but S-400 have more flight speed at mach 12 vs SM-3 9,600 km/h, and have more Flight ceiling 185 km vs SM-3 160 km, i admit aegis system is great but S-400 is great too, lets see the future naval s-400 XD
@SouleXtasis Yes, that would be interesting to see the S-400 mounted on a ship. I haven't heard of plans to do so but it would be interesting nonetheless.
I do not think it would happen though, because Russia doesn't require a ship with ABM capabilities. They have more of a defensive posture & would only need land based systems rather than large ships to go far away from Russia.
Which may be why Russia builds some fantastic CIWS's. The best in the world actually.
@franknbeans4761 Both US and Russian have great weapons, i think that we never see a war among themselves... only proxy wars! and i think that the real US enemy now and for the near future is China and i prefer stay in the US side, personally don´t like a world led by china... so I support and admire the developing and publishing of new weapons for both US and Russians :P
@SouleXtasis I agree. I think China may end up being a threat, even the US Congress said there is likely to be a war over Taiwan. That is probably why Taiwan is currently buying billions of dollars worth of US equipment. The next 2 decades should be interesting.
@franknbeans4761 quantity vs quality, the russian have is own response vs aegis system, have u heard about the S-500, vitaz and Morfey Systems? US had always more founds then the russians, but they have the need to have an answer... y don´t have nothing against the US but since WW2 the russians are ahead when it concerns to misiles, how was first to go into space? and the US really went to the moon? and if they were why have not returned?
@nguydjkk jajajajaja then patriot pac-3 is worst, these could not stop all old "russian" scud missiles in the iraq war, but u can say what you want i will not be answering racist messanges... USA and Russia have the best anti air-missile systems, and if the russians were stupids why not USA invades russia and stop bothering countries like iraq and afganistan in which it takes years of war without achieving almost anything
the US makes MOTHER russia its bitch. we just out do you guys in everything (except government) ex: SEALS>Spetnaz, B-52>bear, f-33 and f-35>ancient russian plywood box with wings, you guys cant even evolve from something as simple and cheap as AK-47s and makorov pistols. US has had some good rag head target practice latley and its starting to become a waste of ordanance. take the first shot russia. (i dare you)
@lordvader5246 seriously, where do you get your information from? B52 vs Bear? Why would a heavy bomber be compared to a maritime patrol aircraft? F33? never heard of that aircraft. Russia has more ordinance lying in sheds than the US will ever have, and that's the shitty stuff they let you know about. Oh and (in my experience in theater) cheap and simple often beats big and expensive, $25 worth of semtex vs a $250,000 APC, APC loses.
@branhkroq idiot. you know nothing about war. its not just nukes on nukes. US would never bomb china. cus of politics. politics and war is almost the same thing.
the patriot missile system suffered from a bug in the software-programmed clock/timing unit that caused worse and worse aiming miscalculations the longer the unit was fielded... i.e. the longer the clock ran, the more off-target the missile would be. The patriot missile system... an example of a software bug.
The original Patriot, the one used in the Gulf War, wasn't really designed to engage ballistic missiles. Especially ballistic missiles that had a tendency to fall apart during the terminal phase. PAC-3 is designed for ballistic missiles, but it's less effective against aircraft. Ballistic missiles are just very hard to intercept, there is a reason there aren't many good defenses against them. Russian ABM defenses aren't really any better.
Good ad, too bad it did live up the statements made for in 1991.
Maybe good against "projected threats", sure - they dont fly yet so its good against them, so is a roll of toilet paper. But when it came to 40 year old rotten rockets falling like bricks from the sky is a completely predictable trajectory - it was completely useless.
As always - yankee shit looks good only in ads, in real life it fails big time.
@Buuub08 This was the PAC-1 missile that never was intended for a anti-ballistic missile defence and so none of the Russian ones were effective against these either form that time.
@AKAtheA Yes the PAC-3 missile is but the one that you are talking about for it's failures are the PAC-1 missile then the PAC-2 missile that followed it was just an upgrade of it but the PAC-3 is a completely new design.
Claimed 100 percent efficiency (G.W.Bush in early 00's), later ~50:1 (Scud killed 30 ppl- hard to coverup) and most recent numbers are that patriot chance of intercepting 50 years old scud missile is %30 percent per intercepting missiles, overal succesfull rate clasified (some claims says that ~50% in iraq).
America better go for THAAD although it's waste of money against such things like scud.
The Patriot pac 1 was a great SAM missile but it failed as an anti ballistic missile system it had a low success rate and it infact caused more harm then good im surprised to see the video that starts at 0:22 in a promotion for the Patriot since it's one of the biggest failure this system ever had in this video you can see two Patriot missiles lunch to protect the Israeli coastal city of Haifa against Iraqi squad missiles a task in which it failed.
@yairbe5 You're right. I watched Congressional testimony under oath live on CSPAN and the generals admitted that there were ZERO completely successful intercepts of scud missiles by Patriots. Most times the warhead fell to the ground anyway. Surprising but it's the truth.
the number one cause for war is FEAR. fear of not knowing what the other will do, not knowing what they are capable of. but mostly fear of another trying to push their ideals on others who dont want to. we are all the same and from the same god. learn to respect and love eachother so we dont kill our families in the process. Godbless all!
S-400(С-400 Russian) Super unique system. Is able to force down all air targets. Planes of the Invisible being,Helicopters, nuclear ballistic, cruise missiles with a false trajectory. S-500(С-500 Russian) Will already force down all purposes in space, any Rockets, Sputnik, and even meteorites. Height of defeat from 5m to 500km. Radius 500km. Simultaneous start on 12 targets. This system is the extremely difficult for destroying, as after a shot it can change the location.
Hey can somone tell me roughly how many missiles, vehicles are there in a SAM Battery. Also how many Batteries are there in a single Firing Unit? Does a few+ missiles, its radar etc make up one Battery?
I was in Saudi when these things were deployed for the first time in OP Desert storm. They positioned three of these things outside the King Khalid hospital and and Medical city where I was based. I saw them launch once, OMG scared the holy shit outta me. I thought the world was coming to an end. Still I'd rather them be on our side.. XD
Bomb the Irak and Irak, Americans. Kill simple people. Steal the oil! That is all you wanted! And don't forget about fake granny Obama. Use your "power" pussy lickers~!
The scuds were such a minor threat they could have all hit their marks and it wouldn't have done a whole lot. For the most part poor engineering saved US forces from the scuds more than the patriot did. The Russians have developed far superior surface launched missiles for a fraction the cost because Raytheon doesn't have them by the balls.
@kiailol Poor engineering? The Iraqis bought a medium range missile from the USSR and got it to go twice as far but not so accurate. If they had used their chemical war heads they would have been plenty accurate. At the time of Desert Storm Jane's Defense ranked the Iraqi military #4 in the world. So you actin like we fought a bunch of goat herders is naive. How old are you again? Happy Independence Day.
The Iraqi military was still hurting badly from the Iran Iraq War when the Gulf War began. Iraq was using mostly 60s and early 70s Soviet equipment and their armed forces only ever ranked #4 in size, not effectiveness. Bottom line is we don't need missile defense, Raytheon charges exorbitant amounts of money for piss-poor quality products that don't perform under pressure. We're already set to spend one trillion dollars on the military this year, spending is way out of hand.
This film and thread is about 1st gen. Patriot. Patriot did what it was designed to do in Desert Storm. It never was designed to cover/protect an entire country...airport maybe, country NO.
@nedeljko031 The Halabja poison gas attack was a genocide massacre that took place on March 16, 1988, The attack quickly killed thousands of people (around 5,000 dead) and injured around 11,000, most of them civilians.The incident, which has been officially defined as an act of genocide against the Kurdish people in Iraq is the largest chemical weapons attack directed against a civilian-populated area in history.
@nedeljko031 In Desert Storm they did find chemicals. Iraq used chemicals in their war with Iran. I'm not here to educate you for Christ sake but heres some light reading. Don't depend on what I say... or anyone else. Figure it out on your own. Ok you tube won't let me put the link here! Fuck you U tube!
Besides this whole thing is supposed to be about whether the Patriot did a good job in the winter of 1990.
@sgtrock68 Yes? chemicals. You just cant face truth. At first you believed your government propaganda about chemicals and started the war. Then found nothing but killed president Saddam. You are good only at attacking some weak middle East countries!
@sgtrock68 26 soldiers died when Scud hitted camp. Patriot had many failures in Gulf wars, biggest problem was badly coded radar site software, radar antena moving was deffined as 1/3 but when you track target 1/3 is not accurate enough. You need 3,333333 thats why radar was tracking target "before" it...in fact missile went though...and radar was trying to get something that isnt there now.
@sgtrock68 Man....i am IT software engineer i know few things about that. Beside that i work for army...or better said worked.... I wish i know english far better so i can explain it better but i cannot. Also i watched one man explaining that pretty good on Discovery, well he is not software eng. but he has good point. You should search for that video somewhere. I dont wanna you think i am stupid and i talk bullshits if you understand what i mean xD
I don't care what the Discovery Chanel thinks on the subject...I was there.
Also I don't know shit about software but I was an instructor at the Patriot Missile school and served in Desert Storm with Patriot . Once the particulars of the Scuds were realized, they were dialed in BUT expecting 20 or 30 Patriot batteries to cover an entire country is naive. By the way give me the info on the 26 soldiers....link? Also are you Russian or Arab?
LM is lucky most retirees dont have the resources to fight billion dollar corporations funded by the government. If they did, LM would have its head handed to it on a platter. Ill also bet they didnt cut off health benefits to ex-managers!
Lockheed-Martin likes to hide behind the American flag. But the true Lockheed-Martin idea of courage and integrity is cutting off health insurance benefits to retirees after theyve retired with an earned benefit. (What are the retirees to do: retire from some other company? I dont think so!) Thats what the Lockheed-Martin concept of integrity is all about. Bet youll never hear about that on an ethics video! Ill also bet they didnt cut off health benefits to ex-managers!
@hechacaldo I was there and I agree. There was the friendly fire thing but that was cause the French thought they were too good for transponders. And there was the missiles headed for Palestine that the Israels let through. And there was the Scuds coming down in 20 pieces and not knowing which one was the payload. But when I got back all I saw on TV was" the Patriot doesn't work". BUT IT DID!
This system isn't any good. During the first gulf war, Israel used this system, it was such a failure in stopping scuds from the 50s and 60s that Israel decided to build their own system. The U.S. actually bought russian S-300 system to reverse engineer some of its technologies into the new patriot system, but it still isnt as good as the S-300, not to mention the new S-400. The patriot is good against slow jets during training exercises, but useless in real scenarios against ballistic missiles.
The PAC-3 is an entirely different missile than the Patriot used in the Gulf War. The GW version was never designed to shoot down ballistic missles, the PAC-3 was, and has, quite effectively.
From what I see you know very little about military technology.
The new version of PAC 3 which uses Hit-to-kill technology is much more efficient, then C-300, 400 at close ranges. C-400 and C-300 use use the same technology that PAC-1 used in gulf war, that is blowing the warhead in the proximity of the target. As you know that technology fails to provide the necessary protection.
I have been reading extensively on the subject of antibalistic missile systems and I have to agree with you. The Pac 3 is a very effective terminal stage interception system. The Patriot is the last line of defense in a multilayered defense system implementing the THAAD and Aegis systems. The Aegis defense system intercepts the missiles at extremely high altitudes of up to ~150 miles in the atmosphere, the THAAD intercepts at up to 93 miles and the PAC 3 patriot at up to 9 miles.
@neloza86 On April 7, 1992 Theodore Postol of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Reuven Pedatzur of Tel Aviv University testified before a House Committee stating that, according to their independent analysis of video tapes, the Patriot system had a success rate of below 10%, and perhaps even a zero success rate.
@neloza86 Actually the units in Israel let Scuds "get through" if the were heading for the Palestinian side. Also the first couple of Scuds we had to learn fast that Scuds break up in many pieces on reentry. Hard to know which piece is the war head. Its a mistake thinking Patriot won't work for missiles.
I don't know what came out after 1992 but the Patriot I know was a great system. Mine was made by Raytheon.
Actually, you're completely wrong. But you can think what you want. PATRIOT is constantly upgrading and getting better. It's our best defense against SCUDs and threats of that nature.
RIO, well America isn't a democracy to begin with. It's a Democratic Republic. It's a government ruled by the law with democratic practices. Many people don't understand this...
@wslx0195 Well, you're wrong. America is a Democracy...period. It doesn't need any right-wing big government qualifiers in it's description. You right wing big government types might want the government to have all the power but the rest of us will keep the power in the hands of the people. You don't understand SQUAT ! You just regurgitate right-wing anti-American propaganda...that's all. republicans funded explosive growth in communist China instead of America.
@JetMechMA No man look it up. American Government is classified as a Constitutional Republic by nature, which means a sovereign nation ruled by 'the law'. We have a party system to weight out the checks and balances to satisfy everyone's rightful opinion. We operate this balance through a democratic system but a true democracy does not have law, it only has majority rules. I understand a lot more than you do based on what I have posted and what you have posted.
@JetMechMA Republicans didn't fund explosive growth in China, only businessman/woman and investors did. It does not reflect political views. People simply put their money where there is a appreciative return capital. It's more about individual greed than the fact that they're republicans.
@JetMechMA And in terms of propaganda, the only one here spreading propaganda is you. YOU'RE THE ONE stating that the term 'REPUBLIC' should not be used in the title of our government even though it is. America was NEVER a "DEMOCRACY". It was always a "..republic, if you can keep it." That is a famous quote. Never did I spread any propaganda. I simply said the truth. America IS NOT A DEMOCRACY! I can not name one nation on Earth that is a democracy. They're all Republics or Democratic Republics
@wslx0195 America is a Democracy. If you hate America so much why don't you join your communist republican friends in communist China? republicans voted with their feet when they closed factories here and moved them to communist China. Why do you do mental gymnastics to defend communist republican traitors to America?
@JetMechMA If American businesses didn't didn't have factories in China, then most companies would ultimately fail or have slow productivity ESPECIALLY after Obama's increase in taxes, on top of the current high employment taxes, benefits, and wages in the country. It would make sense that factories in the states would increase employment but not from a statistical point of view looking at the increasing overhead. It would damage employment as the number of businesses would fall.
@wslx0195: If American businesses didn't didn't have factories in China,...
JM: They would be forced to build factories in America. The money paid in wages would stay in a continuous loop of wages...consuming...wages..consuming....JUST like it did before we saw widespread outsourcing. That's the way it worked in America for 200 years before outsourcing. But you would rather build up communist China instead of America. WHY?
@JetMechMA Funny that you say you want the power to the people when all you left-wingers want the government to have more power. Obama-care, bailouts, and government take-overs of the private sector only grant the government more power eliminating the private sector. Look in the history books, ROME was a flourishing republic before more left-winger socialists moved into power. They did bailouts and offered the people security through power, and in end became an oligarchy (falsely aka monarchy)
@wslx0195 Oligarchy is what republican America has already turned into. A corporate oligarchy is what America already is. America has now become a two class society...the haves and the have-nots. The transformation is already complete. republicans created a permanent underclass in America by selling out to the communist Chinese. God damn traitors to hell.
@JetMechMA No an Oligarchy is what the extremist left-wingers want the US Government to become. They want jobs, healthcare, housing, welfare, and corporations to be seized, controlled, and distributed by the government. THAT is an oligarchy. Elimination of private business and corporate (the people) sectors from having any control creates less control to the people. Is that what you want? The USA to become the USSA? Because that is the road we are taking and it starts by puting money in the gov.
@wslx0195: Elimination of private business and corporate (the people) sectors from having any control creates less control to the people.
JM: You're stark raving insane. You just said that corporations having control is the same as the people having control. You've completely lost your mind.
@JetMechMA Do you know what a corporation is? They are run by the people you idiot. You think you give more power to the people by transferring power to the government? I am right. You are wrong. Do some research.
JM: A corporation is an inanimate object....NOT a person. Our government is a representative government...which means it is literally the people. A corporation is a very narrow group of wealthy people, not the average ordinary citizen. The government is made up of representatives of the people, not just the stock holders. THAT's the difference. You worship the elite few, I support and defend America.
@JetMechMA You defend a government of few elites who control the fate of soldiers and use propaganda machines and broken promises. You support these politicians in power who brainwash you into thinking that it's as easy said as done to just give more jobs and remove our corporations from China and other countries. They spread so much bs. So yes, I will support corporations over government. And btw, a corporation being an entity apart from a person does not mean it does not operate in law...
@wslx0195 A republic means a government for/by the people. It does not reflect a type of commerce or economy (capitalism or communism). China is a communist republic, and the USA is a capitalist Federal (made up of individual governments of the states) Republic. I can tell that you have learned a lot from talking to me, or you refused to learn and you still don't know the meaning to democracy, republic, or multinational trade.
JM: Why do you choose to be a communist instead of an American? When did it become OK in America to profit by communism? If you love communism so much why don't you go live there and leave America alone?
JM: Why do you choose to be a communist instead of an American? When did it become OK in America to profit by communism? If you love communism so much why don't you go live there and leave America alone?
@JetMechMA Lol you are so stupid. This is a never ending circle with you. The reason why POLITICIANS use the term democracy because we use democracy to vote them in power. We vote someone in power to vote for laws. That also makes us a republic. We don't directly vote for laws... Democracy is everything in campaigns because it gives the politicians power to make the written laws.. Idiot!
@wslx0195 The laws and propositions we vote for or proposed by politicians, so even if you feel like you're voting for a law, you're only voting for a law that someone else was able to bring to the table. Once again, we are a republic. We vote for laws through a conduit; a politician. Once passed, these bills become the law. We have a law created by the people through individuals of power, and that makes us a republic as well. I can go on and prove you wrong.
@JetMechMA A law created by the people, put into writing, through politicians. That is a Republic. You have the arrogance of an old dog not accepting new terms.
@wslx0195 Or more specific, these politicians are voted for, by the people, but they pass the laws for us. That's not democracy as the people do not have direct power of majority. I'm not arrogant once again. I'm' just repeating the facts. If you continue to argue, you show proof that you're too arrogant to look up the government system of the United States. Even check wiki for all I care.
@wslx0195: we use democracy to vote them in power.
JM: So the make-up of our government is a choice made by the people. That makes the government...the people. The people....the government...one and the same. Thanks for clearing that up. So we would want the power to reside in...the people, not the corporations, right?...since we don't vote for the boards of directors. I knew you'd come around.
@JetMechMA We vote for the board of directors. We vote for politicians. Ok.. Now who makes the laws? Who is in charge of the government and who put the laws in writing? The few people in power do after we vote them in. That is a republic. You're welcome. I'm glad I finally got you to understand what makes a republic. Otherwise, a democracy would mean we would not need a politician to take power. We individually would have direct power by majority. And, there would be no written law.
@JetMechMA And btw, thats correct shareholders vote for the chairman and board members. Sorry to assume. I am a shareholder myself. Not enough to be a primary to vote, but point being we vote for someone else to make decisions and laws.
JM: Corporations only represnt the elite stock holders....not the average citizen. The founders described our government this way: A government of the people, for the people and by the people. The government IS the people. You've been brainwashed to think that corporations are people. You're stark...raving...insane.
@JetMechMA Explain to me how government having control gives people control. DId you know that corporations operate in state, or federal law and are limited to that? You're nothing more than a flamed conspiracy theorist idiot.
@wslx0195: Explain to me how government having control gives people control.
JM: In the first place, you're an ASShole. I am not advocating an oppressive dictatorship. That's just some ASSHOLE right-wing stuff you''ve been brainwashed with...jerk! Idiot asshole. You're DROWNING in right-wing koolaid. Nobody is advocating we turn into the Soviet Union...you fucking idiot. CEOs used to make 40 times the average worker. Now they make Four-HUNDRED times the average worker. THAT's the point.
@JetMechMA Ok. They make money. Thats what business is all about. Are you considering taking control of the money that these corporations make by earning just because they make so much?? Are you considering some kind of distribution? That is communism. And, it wasnt a right wing person who allowed the buyout of large, failing corporations, it was a socialist, left-wing group. IMO corporations should be allowed to fail to allow small businesses to rise. But nothing wrong with large income.
@JetMechMA IF YOU post one more thing without showing sign that you have read, absorbed, and understood what I said, or without researching the American government and what it is, then I will ignore you like the rest of the idiots. You show no sign of doing research to prove me wrong with facts. Is it because you are afraid to read the truth? I live with extreme leftwingers and they would be ashamed of how stupid you make them look. They know the USA is a republic, too.
@wslx0195: then I will ignore you like the rest of the idiots.
JM: You will retreat back into your anti-American communist republican cult mantras that only support your communist cult. ...because you are uneducable. You are the future citizen of the American idiocracy. Cult members always run and hide from the debate when they have lost. Go run to your cult and ask them for a cult mantra chant to help you deny reality. You are a gonner. You are uneducable. You are land fill. A dead-ender.
@wslx0195 republicans sold out America to the communist Chinese who now use that technology to make their oppressive communist armies better. What did you THINK they were doing with all that fuckin republican investment money?
@JetMechMA You attacking me directly (calling me naive and a hater of America) is just low. An assault like that in a debate shows insecurity and inability to elaborate on counter-arguments. You're spreading propaganda by saying I am a hater of America by refusing to call it a Democracy. America is not a democracy. A democracy means ruling majority IS law. But, in the US, we have laws that govern the democracy making it a Republic. Constitution is law so we're a Constitutional (Democratic) Rep.
JM: Saying that is a communist republican cult mantra, that's all. Anti-American republicans chant that cult mantra LIE because they don't want to admit that America is a Union....a Union of States and that America is a Democracy run by the people, because the word Democracy sounds like the word Democrat. Your right-wing talk radio brainwashing masters teach you to hate our American Democracy. You're a slack jawed idiot. Hypnotized.
@JetMechMA You need to learn what the meaning of a Republic is. Yes America is a Union.. so what? Doesn't mean it isnt a republic. You are so fucking stupid I will not argue with you any more. You can't win a fight with an idiot. Look up the term "republic". Final time I will say this, and I will say the full name. America is a FEDERAL PRESIDENTIAL CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC!
JM: I see, you only believe in the building blocks of America that fit your republican ideals...never mind that the founders built America from the ground up as a union...that in so doing they proved the basic necessity of unionism. WE fought a fucking civil war over it...that's how strongly the founders felt about unionism. But in your hypnotized republican mind you can deny any reality that doesn't support your anti-American republican hypnosis.
@JetMechMA You're an idiot. You only quoted the first part of what I was saying. The UNION has NOTHING TO DO with republics or democracy. That's my point. You fucking word, twisting libral. You're just the like the worst of them. And I never said I worship corporations. You twist words in your strategy. You are a complete idiot. I am done. Btw, a Federal/Federation means a Union of individual governments as one, which is what we are. We are a Federal Constitutional Republic. Once again...
@JetMechMA My point is that the union is part of a Federation of Republics. Did you know that France, Germany, England, and all other European countries are republics? They have a system of democracy to vote people into power just like the USA. Are you going to use them as a model in your agenda to prove me wrong? Of course not because theyre a capitalist federation of republics known as the European Union, which is similar to the Union of the states, which is also a republic.
JM: Union, union, union...alright already, we get it. Unions and unionism is the way the westerrn world operates. So why did you right-wingers decimate America by busting all the unions?
@JetMechMA You're making a diversive tactic.. And it's not us right-wingers. Is it not the left-wing president who wanted to sue the state of Arizona for enforcing federal immigration law that has been ignored by your beloved government?
@JetMechMA And, was it not the leftist parties in california who wanted to boycott trade from Arizona? It sounds to me that you're confused on which party is breaking up the union.
@wslx0195: was it not the leftist parties in california who wanted to boycott trade from Arizona?
JM: They are protecting the rights of Mexican-Americans from racial profiling...you racists son of a bitch you. That's the difference between a real American and a republican. Real Americans don't expect Mexican-Americans to have to prove their citizenship to anyone. It's UN-Constitutional you dumbass!
@JetMechMA Do you know what proof of citizenship is? It's a state ID or license. EVERYONE is required to carry it. Not just Mexican-Americans. I have Mexican-American and Mexican friends. The leftist parties are the ones who started the race-card "racial profiling" issue as an argument in their agenda against the bill. However, if you read the AZ Senate Bill, it never mentions any clue related to racial profiling or act that would lead to such an act.
@wslx0195: Do you know what proof of citizenship is? It's a state ID or license. EVERYONE is required to carry it.
JM: Dumbass, you don't even know that it's not true. Only your right-wing communists want to make it true. But it's unconstitutional. Didn't you know you have a right to privacy?
@JetMechMA I like how you're still insulting me as you're becoming frustrated. We do have the right to privacy... in privacy but not in public. The police also have the right to investigation. You can refuse to show an officer of the law your id, but if they feel suspicious of that, then they have the right to further investigate. This means, to look up who you are, or ask questions. Sure you don't have to answer them, but that will only make matters more irritating.
This has been flagged as spam show
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kopellhinex 1 month ago
The idea to have it on all-terrain vehicles was mainly to have the system very quickly at places difficult to trace and access (sabotage protection) and at the same time to be able to move from place to place on a regular basis in order to disable an enemy targeting. So I thought a one vehicle solution would be best at place.
ALB437 2 months ago
Your are certainly right, but are there any all-terrain vehicles among what you call "individual vehicles"?
ALB437 2 months ago
I guess 7 international forces are pretty pissed now
NosferatuAaacaado 4 months ago
Remind me of Tony Stark =))
thanatosor 5 months ago
TOPOL-M
MonoMohrovo 5 months ago
Could the Patriot System (3 components) be loaded on one very large all-terrain truck, like an Oshkosh and be an equivalent of the "Scuds"? Or does is already exist?
ALB437 5 months ago in playlist raamis
@ALB437 It wouldn't really be possible or reasonable to do that. What you would end up with is an "Australian Land Train" (look it up). Plus it would make much more sense to have it spread out on other trucks.
franknbeans4761 3 months ago
@franknbeans4761 - My idea was to have 1 truck ready for a fast deployment wherever required and in difficult accessible terrains. Could be spread all over the country. I have seen the Patriot System in Paris (Le Bourget 2009) and the main vehicle looks more like a loader to me.It is not clear to me what you mean by "Land Train", or which would be the advantage to spread it out on other trucks. Of course looking at a picture the 2 smaller components would have to be minimized to be assembled.
ALB437 3 months ago
@ALB437 I know the Patriot is normally spread out over an area, along with it's radar, command vehicle, & logistical support. If they need to move, they just have their individual vehicles go get them, it is much faster than one vehicle carrying several.
But otherwise all the Patriot launchers are normally set up, waiting to fire.
franknbeans4761 2 months ago
Whats this from? The 50s or 60s
appleintosh 6 months ago
"S-400" The Best !!!
SouleXtasis 8 months ago 6
@SouleXtasis then why are you watching this dumbass
battingriver 8 months ago
@battingriver because i like to see your stupid propaganda
SouleXtasis 7 months ago
@SouleXtasis i like to see yours!!!
battingriver 7 months ago
@SouleXtasis The S-400 is obsolete.
quickzilver333 7 months ago
@quickzilver333 Then the Patriot pac-3 is worst
SouleXtasis 7 months ago
@SouleXtasis I never like the Patriot and the S-400. I prefer the Swedish and German made air/missile Defense systems. :)
quickzilver333 7 months ago
@SouleXtasis I would say the 1,000+ Patriots are much better than the small amount of S-400's. Also, the THAAD is probably equal to the S-400 & the AEGIS BMD system is better than the S-400 in many ways.
franknbeans4761 3 months ago
@franknbeans4761 quantity vs quality, the russian have is own response vs aegis system, have u heard about the S-500, vitaz and Morfey Systems? US had always more founds then the russians, but they have the need to have an answer... y don´t have nothing against the US but since WW2 the russians are ahead when it concerns to misiles, how was first to go into space? and the US really went to the moon? and if they were why have not returned?
SouleXtasis 3 months ago
@SouleXtasis Yes I have. Both the S-500 & Morfey are years away from entering service. In fact, the S-500 was slated to come out in 2015 but is behind schedule & might not be here until 2017.
What do you mean about the moon? We had several Apollo missions that were very successful, how do you think we brought back moon rocks?
But the US still has the THAAD & the AEGIS BMD which is superior to anything Russia currently has & in greater numbers.
Russia is either equal or slightly behind.
franknbeans4761 3 months ago
@franknbeans4761 Where do you get that information? from Discovery.. History Channel or another US made propaganda? S-500 and Morfey systems are to enter in service in 2013 and THAAD system is not superior to s-400 just see the specifications, and the Aegis system who are you so proud about is nothing vs Moskit misile and his remplace P-800 Onyx, US have great weapons and a enormous stockpile i admit it! but in this case the actual best Anti air system is the S-400 at least in specifications
SouleXtasis 3 months ago
@SouleXtasis That is what I was thinking of, 2013 not 2015. I botched the release date of the S-500, but I guess it is behind schedule by 2 years and won't enter service until 2015, so the S-400 will have to do (which is plenty good). But the AEGIS BMD has a range of 500 km. The S-400 is 400 km.
But the Moskit has a top speed of Mach 3 & a range of 120 km (which is very small). 120 km at Mach 3 takes 1:57 to reach a target. Plenty of time to launch multiple missiles to intercept it.
franknbeans4761 3 months ago
@franknbeans4761 Aegis system is a multi weapon complex based on the Phalanx CIWS, mark 41 VLS, many radars like the AN/SPY-1 and of course the sistem have a capability range of 500 km thanks to his SM-3 Misile but now we are talking about sea versions, i admit it SM-3 misile have more range but S-400 have more flight speed at mach 12 vs SM-3 9,600 km/h, and have more Flight ceiling 185 km vs SM-3 160 km, i admit aegis system is great but S-400 is great too, lets see the future naval s-400 XD
SouleXtasis 3 months ago
@SouleXtasis Yes, that would be interesting to see the S-400 mounted on a ship. I haven't heard of plans to do so but it would be interesting nonetheless.
I do not think it would happen though, because Russia doesn't require a ship with ABM capabilities. They have more of a defensive posture & would only need land based systems rather than large ships to go far away from Russia.
Which may be why Russia builds some fantastic CIWS's. The best in the world actually.
franknbeans4761 3 months ago
@franknbeans4761 Both US and Russian have great weapons, i think that we never see a war among themselves... only proxy wars! and i think that the real US enemy now and for the near future is China and i prefer stay in the US side, personally don´t like a world led by china... so I support and admire the developing and publishing of new weapons for both US and Russians :P
SouleXtasis 3 months ago
@SouleXtasis I agree. I think China may end up being a threat, even the US Congress said there is likely to be a war over Taiwan. That is probably why Taiwan is currently buying billions of dollars worth of US equipment. The next 2 decades should be interesting.
franknbeans4761 3 months ago
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@franknbeans4761 quantity vs quality, the russian have is own response vs aegis system, have u heard about the S-500, vitaz and Morfey Systems? US had always more founds then the russians, but they have the need to have an answer... y don´t have nothing against the US but since WW2 the russians are ahead when it concerns to misiles, how was first to go into space? and the US really went to the moon? and if they were why have not returned?
SouleXtasis 3 months ago
@SouleXtasis
S-400 is bad. All Russian are stupid and think they are talent
nguydjkk 2 months ago
@nguydjkk jajajajaja then patriot pac-3 is worst, these could not stop all old "russian" scud missiles in the iraq war, but u can say what you want i will not be answering racist messanges... USA and Russia have the best anti air-missile systems, and if the russians were stupids why not USA invades russia and stop bothering countries like iraq and afganistan in which it takes years of war without achieving almost anything
SouleXtasis 2 months ago
унылое гавно этот ваш пак3
bylvinkle 8 months ago 2
the US makes MOTHER russia its bitch. we just out do you guys in everything (except government) ex: SEALS>Spetnaz, B-52>bear, f-33 and f-35>ancient russian plywood box with wings, you guys cant even evolve from something as simple and cheap as AK-47s and makorov pistols. US has had some good rag head target practice latley and its starting to become a waste of ordanance. take the first shot russia. (i dare you)
lordvader5246 9 months ago
@lordvader5246 seriously, where do you get your information from? B52 vs Bear? Why would a heavy bomber be compared to a maritime patrol aircraft? F33? never heard of that aircraft. Russia has more ordinance lying in sheds than the US will ever have, and that's the shitty stuff they let you know about. Oh and (in my experience in theater) cheap and simple often beats big and expensive, $25 worth of semtex vs a $250,000 APC, APC loses.
cousto85 9 months ago
us can nuke china anytime !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
branhkroq 10 months ago
@branhkroq idiot. you know nothing about war. its not just nukes on nukes. US would never bomb china. cus of politics. politics and war is almost the same thing.
MortisFaciem 9 months ago
shit -- C 400 POWER IN WORLD //usa no destroy operative tactical rockets .. long die usa
Natali88333 10 months ago 2
@Natali88333 As you said, dude. There's nothing in the world like de S-400 Triumph. Long Live to Mother Russia.
MelRob29 9 months ago
Comment removed
obama93142 10 months ago
@obama93142 hehe
ABOM6LAGq8 8 months ago
@obama93142 But it wont cus its scared it will get its ass whipped.
TheGamesGame1 8 months ago
Russians hat America-if you don't understand that you are iggnorat and illusional-Europe never never liked America.
src438 11 months ago
the patriot missile system suffered from a bug in the software-programmed clock/timing unit that caused worse and worse aiming miscalculations the longer the unit was fielded... i.e. the longer the clock ran, the more off-target the missile would be. The patriot missile system... an example of a software bug.
SixthtySixthSix 1 year ago
The original Patriot, the one used in the Gulf War, wasn't really designed to engage ballistic missiles. Especially ballistic missiles that had a tendency to fall apart during the terminal phase. PAC-3 is designed for ballistic missiles, but it's less effective against aircraft. Ballistic missiles are just very hard to intercept, there is a reason there aren't many good defenses against them. Russian ABM defenses aren't really any better.
Nater245689 1 year ago
Good ad, too bad it did live up the statements made for in 1991.
Maybe good against "projected threats", sure - they dont fly yet so its good against them, so is a roll of toilet paper. But when it came to 40 year old rotten rockets falling like bricks from the sky is a completely predictable trajectory - it was completely useless.
As always - yankee shit looks good only in ads, in real life it fails big time.
Buuub08 1 year ago
@Buuub08 This was the PAC-1 missile that never was intended for a anti-ballistic missile defence and so none of the Russian ones were effective against these either form that time.
TheMilitaryTactics 11 months ago
@TheMilitaryTactics video says it IS intended against aircraft and ballistic missiles...
AKAtheA 11 months ago
@AKAtheA Yes the PAC-3 missile is but the one that you are talking about for it's failures are the PAC-1 missile then the PAC-2 missile that followed it was just an upgrade of it but the PAC-3 is a completely new design.
TheMilitaryTactics 11 months ago
well..... i didn't work so well against the bad guys in G.I.Joe
asian21541 1 year ago
Claimed 100 percent efficiency (G.W.Bush in early 00's), later ~50:1 (Scud killed 30 ppl- hard to coverup) and most recent numbers are that patriot chance of intercepting 50 years old scud missile is %30 percent per intercepting missiles, overal succesfull rate clasified (some claims says that ~50% in iraq).
America better go for THAAD although it's waste of money against such things like scud.
thomaspruzina 1 year ago
Thanks Martin! I feel safer already.
epiwah 1 year ago
Like they say in Texas,if you mess with the Bull you get the horns....
ClarksonsinUSA 1 year ago
This makes me wanna play command n conquer.
Wargeneralguy 1 year ago 18
@Wargeneralguy
thats one of my favorite games!
kingsslayer23 6 months ago
The Patriot pac 1 was a great SAM missile but it failed as an anti ballistic missile system it had a low success rate and it infact caused more harm then good im surprised to see the video that starts at 0:22 in a promotion for the Patriot since it's one of the biggest failure this system ever had in this video you can see two Patriot missiles lunch to protect the Israeli coastal city of Haifa against Iraqi squad missiles a task in which it failed.
yairbe5 1 year ago
@yairbe5 You're right. I watched Congressional testimony under oath live on CSPAN and the generals admitted that there were ZERO completely successful intercepts of scud missiles by Patriots. Most times the warhead fell to the ground anyway. Surprising but it's the truth.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
Patriots are the Missiles the Enemy uses in Videogames when you choose "EASY" right?
Wolvster007 1 year ago
@Wolvster007 Nope, those are SA-2, the patriot is when you choose realistic invulnerability.
Stover36 1 year ago
Do you think that this missile could shoot down an asteroid???
worldchampion1986 1 year ago
@worldchampion1986 Nope. or a very ! Tiny ! one. Asteroids are usually maded from incredible durable and strong minerals.
Vykuk123 1 year ago
@worldchampion1986 Depends on the size. More than likely Aegis would intercept an asteroid but if it's a large one it will only chip it a little.
TheMostWantedR1 1 year ago
I will go with Pecora SA3 Goa before than with this O.o
nedeljko031 1 year ago
patriot couldnt hit the goodyear blimp if it waz tethered. mine was made by rathyeon
derpotni3riots 1 year ago
the number one cause for war is FEAR. fear of not knowing what the other will do, not knowing what they are capable of. but mostly fear of another trying to push their ideals on others who dont want to. we are all the same and from the same god. learn to respect and love eachother so we dont kill our families in the process. Godbless all!
j10betty 1 year ago
S-400(С-400 Russian) Super unique system. Is able to force down all air targets. Planes of the Invisible being,Helicopters, nuclear ballistic, cruise missiles with a false trajectory. S-500(С-500 Russian) Will already force down all purposes in space, any Rockets, Sputnik, and even meteorites. Height of defeat from 5m to 500km. Radius 500km. Simultaneous start on 12 targets. This system is the extremely difficult for destroying, as after a shot it can change the location.
LiallisVladik 1 year ago
Говно!
shiknik 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hey can somone tell me roughly how many missiles, vehicles are there in a SAM Battery. Also how many Batteries are there in a single Firing Unit? Does a few+ missiles, its radar etc make up one Battery?
TuAFFalcon 1 year ago
I'd hate to break it to you SweetLandofLiberty, but Patriot is designed by Ratheon, not Lockheed Martin. Sorry.
WangNinja73 1 year ago
This Patriot system is so great, the SM-3, S-300, and S-400 is way better.
Iraqendwar 1 year ago
Patriot Missile system: Aircraft Friendly fire guaranteed or your money back.
Iraqendwar 1 year ago
Lulz, Metal gear solid 4 much ? O.o
nsahler 1 year ago
Nice.
MagnitudePerson 1 year ago
best air defence is s-400 and served Russia only
samy3310 1 year ago
it dosent work , we all know , America , you cant fool the world anymore
robbinhood111 1 year ago
I was in Saudi when these things were deployed for the first time in OP Desert storm. They positioned three of these things outside the King Khalid hospital and and Medical city where I was based. I saw them launch once, OMG scared the holy shit outta me. I thought the world was coming to an end. Still I'd rather them be on our side.. XD
RiotUnit349 1 year ago
@RiotUnit349 I was there...KKMC? Cool city. 2/1 ADA. Seems like Patriot worked for ya...don't know where all these shit heads are getting their info.
sgtrock68 1 year ago
Bomb the Irak and Irak, Americans. Kill simple people. Steal the oil! That is all you wanted! And don't forget about fake granny Obama. Use your "power" pussy lickers~!
Romceg22 1 year ago
Yet another worthless technology the US shouldn't waste money on. Patriot missile=fail
kiailol 1 year ago
@kiailol Fuck you. Patriot covered our asses in Desert Storm. What do you know?
sgtrock68 1 year ago
@sgtrock68
The scuds were such a minor threat they could have all hit their marks and it wouldn't have done a whole lot. For the most part poor engineering saved US forces from the scuds more than the patriot did. The Russians have developed far superior surface launched missiles for a fraction the cost because Raytheon doesn't have them by the balls.
kiailol 1 year ago
@kiailol Poor engineering? The Iraqis bought a medium range missile from the USSR and got it to go twice as far but not so accurate. If they had used their chemical war heads they would have been plenty accurate. At the time of Desert Storm Jane's Defense ranked the Iraqi military #4 in the world. So you actin like we fought a bunch of goat herders is naive. How old are you again? Happy Independence Day.
sgtrock68 1 year ago
@sgtrock68
The Iraqi military was still hurting badly from the Iran Iraq War when the Gulf War began. Iraq was using mostly 60s and early 70s Soviet equipment and their armed forces only ever ranked #4 in size, not effectiveness. Bottom line is we don't need missile defense, Raytheon charges exorbitant amounts of money for piss-poor quality products that don't perform under pressure. We're already set to spend one trillion dollars on the military this year, spending is way out of hand.
kiailol 1 year ago
@kiailol
This film and thread is about 1st gen. Patriot. Patriot did what it was designed to do in Desert Storm. It never was designed to cover/protect an entire country...airport maybe, country NO.
sgtrock68 1 year ago
@sgtrock68 Iraq didnt have Chemical warheads..... Iraq military was and is far from 4th place.
nedeljko031 1 year ago
Comment removed
sgtrock68 1 year ago
@nedeljko031 The Halabja poison gas attack was a genocide massacre that took place on March 16, 1988, The attack quickly killed thousands of people (around 5,000 dead) and injured around 11,000, most of them civilians.The incident, which has been officially defined as an act of genocide against the Kurdish people in Iraq is the largest chemical weapons attack directed against a civilian-populated area in history.
There...I don't want to here anymore about it.
sgtrock68 1 year ago
@sgtrock68 Did Americans ever found stocks of Chemical and Nuclear weapons? I served 11 months in Iraq....lets say i think its bullshit... xD
nedeljko031 1 year ago
@nedeljko031 In Desert Storm they did find chemicals. Iraq used chemicals in their war with Iran. I'm not here to educate you for Christ sake but heres some light reading. Don't depend on what I say... or anyone else. Figure it out on your own. Ok you tube won't let me put the link here! Fuck you U tube!
Besides this whole thing is supposed to be about whether the Patriot did a good job in the winter of 1990.
sgtrock68 1 year ago
@sgtrock68 Yes? chemicals. You just cant face truth. At first you believed your government propaganda about chemicals and started the war. Then found nothing but killed president Saddam. You are good only at attacking some weak middle East countries!
kosiak10851 1 year ago
@nedeljko031 Just google Halabja poison gas attack
sgtrock68 1 year ago
@sgtrock68 i know about that i read alot about similar topics...but i think its somewhat in cloud of propagada...not cloud of agens.
nedeljko031 1 year ago
@nedeljko031
Ok what ever you want.
sgtrock68 1 year ago
@sgtrock68 26 soldiers died when Scud hitted camp. Patriot had many failures in Gulf wars, biggest problem was badly coded radar site software, radar antena moving was deffined as 1/3 but when you track target 1/3 is not accurate enough. You need 3,333333 thats why radar was tracking target "before" it...in fact missile went though...and radar was trying to get something that isnt there now.
nedeljko031 1 year ago
@nedeljko031 Thats not how it works.
sgtrock68 1 year ago
@sgtrock68 Man....i am IT software engineer i know few things about that. Beside that i work for army...or better said worked.... I wish i know english far better so i can explain it better but i cannot. Also i watched one man explaining that pretty good on Discovery, well he is not software eng. but he has good point. You should search for that video somewhere. I dont wanna you think i am stupid and i talk bullshits if you understand what i mean xD
nedeljko031 1 year ago
@nedeljko031
I don't care what the Discovery Chanel thinks on the subject...I was there.
Also I don't know shit about software but I was an instructor at the Patriot Missile school and served in Desert Storm with Patriot . Once the particulars of the Scuds were realized, they were dialed in BUT expecting 20 or 30 Patriot batteries to cover an entire country is naive. By the way give me the info on the 26 soldiers....link? Also are you Russian or Arab?
sgtrock68 1 year ago
LM is lucky most retirees dont have the resources to fight billion dollar corporations funded by the government. If they did, LM would have its head handed to it on a platter. Ill also bet they didnt cut off health benefits to ex-managers!
retiredge76 1 year ago
Lockheed-Martin likes to hide behind the American flag. But the true Lockheed-Martin idea of courage and integrity is cutting off health insurance benefits to retirees after theyve retired with an earned benefit. (What are the retirees to do: retire from some other company? I dont think so!) Thats what the Lockheed-Martin concept of integrity is all about. Bet youll never hear about that on an ethics video! Ill also bet they didnt cut off health benefits to ex-managers!
retiredge76 1 year ago
@retiredge76 if they are union workers, they deserve NOTHING.
jjjazzycraig 1 year ago
Is the pac-1 and pac-2 still in service with the u.s. army.
N1cholas240 2 years ago
bluesplayer86 is right. The system was developed/engineered by Raytheon.
BudGraziano 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
even history channel admitted patriot is SHIT( GREAT MILITARY BLUNDERS SERIES). IT WAS ORVERRATED, OVERBUDGET AND DIDNT WORK
93military 2 years ago
Not true. It worked very well in Desert Storm. I was there so I know. It wasnt perfect but that was 15 years ago when it was first being tried out.
hechacaldo 2 years ago
@hechacaldo I was there and I agree. There was the friendly fire thing but that was cause the French thought they were too good for transponders. And there was the missiles headed for Palestine that the Israels let through. And there was the Scuds coming down in 20 pieces and not knowing which one was the payload. But when I got back all I saw on TV was" the Patriot doesn't work". BUT IT DID!
sgtrock68 1 year ago
Russian s-200 s-300 s-400 better
and SA -10,12,20.
BLINDONALTS 2 years ago
russians always the best :)
fuck jewsh's
sulimi4ever95 2 years ago
watch?v=8iUOD1fkBGc contemplen un verdadero anti-todo no juguetes.
ayoria92 2 years ago
Patriot is a crap!!!
SA -10/12/20 much more better than this piece of shit (and cheaper)
alexkenig1 2 years ago
ummmm raytheon makes this system
bluesplayer86 2 years ago
by the time(if ever) the S-400 is built in sufficient numbers to actually be a threat it will probably be near obsolete.
1z1q 2 years ago
This system isn't any good. During the first gulf war, Israel used this system, it was such a failure in stopping scuds from the 50s and 60s that Israel decided to build their own system. The U.S. actually bought russian S-300 system to reverse engineer some of its technologies into the new patriot system, but it still isnt as good as the S-300, not to mention the new S-400. The patriot is good against slow jets during training exercises, but useless in real scenarios against ballistic missiles.
neloza86 2 years ago
The PAC-3 is an entirely different missile than the Patriot used in the Gulf War. The GW version was never designed to shoot down ballistic missles, the PAC-3 was, and has, quite effectively.
lohrtom 2 years ago
@neloza86
From what I see you know very little about military technology.
The new version of PAC 3 which uses Hit-to-kill technology is much more efficient, then C-300, 400 at close ranges. C-400 and C-300 use use the same technology that PAC-1 used in gulf war, that is blowing the warhead in the proximity of the target. As you know that technology fails to provide the necessary protection.
And lets not start talking about THAAD and SM-3.
LokiG36 1 year ago 2
@LokiG36
I have been reading extensively on the subject of antibalistic missile systems and I have to agree with you. The Pac 3 is a very effective terminal stage interception system. The Patriot is the last line of defense in a multilayered defense system implementing the THAAD and Aegis systems. The Aegis defense system intercepts the missiles at extremely high altitudes of up to ~150 miles in the atmosphere, the THAAD intercepts at up to 93 miles and the PAC 3 patriot at up to 9 miles.
mangler117 1 year ago
@mangler117
In terms of range, Aegis 310 miles, THAAD 125+ miles, Pac 3 range is 29 miles
mangler117 1 year ago
@neloza86 Yes but look at weapons today ;) Stop going backwards lol.
mattsparkman 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@neloza86 On April 7, 1992 Theodore Postol of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Reuven Pedatzur of Tel Aviv University testified before a House Committee stating that, according to their independent analysis of video tapes, the Patriot system had a success rate of below 10%, and perhaps even a zero success rate.
OOjiBoy 1 year ago
@neloza86
Ballisitc Missiles are pretty hard to hit
TheHunter222 1 year ago
@neloza86 Actually the units in Israel let Scuds "get through" if the were heading for the Palestinian side. Also the first couple of Scuds we had to learn fast that Scuds break up in many pieces on reentry. Hard to know which piece is the war head. Its a mistake thinking Patriot won't work for missiles.
I don't know what came out after 1992 but the Patriot I know was a great system. Mine was made by Raytheon.
sgtrock68 1 year ago
Actually, you're completely wrong. But you can think what you want. PATRIOT is constantly upgrading and getting better. It's our best defense against SCUDs and threats of that nature.
USArmyStrobel 1 year ago
The American democracy - a myth
RIO1987RUSgosu 2 years ago
RIO, well America isn't a democracy to begin with. It's a Democratic Republic. It's a government ruled by the law with democratic practices. Many people don't understand this...
wslx0195 2 years ago 4
@wslx0195 Well, you're wrong. America is a Democracy...period. It doesn't need any right-wing big government qualifiers in it's description. You right wing big government types might want the government to have all the power but the rest of us will keep the power in the hands of the people. You don't understand SQUAT ! You just regurgitate right-wing anti-American propaganda...that's all. republicans funded explosive growth in communist China instead of America.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA No man look it up. American Government is classified as a Constitutional Republic by nature, which means a sovereign nation ruled by 'the law'. We have a party system to weight out the checks and balances to satisfy everyone's rightful opinion. We operate this balance through a democratic system but a true democracy does not have law, it only has majority rules. I understand a lot more than you do based on what I have posted and what you have posted.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195 You are naive.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA Republicans didn't fund explosive growth in China, only businessman/woman and investors did. It does not reflect political views. People simply put their money where there is a appreciative return capital. It's more about individual greed than the fact that they're republicans.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195 It's more about the fact that they are republicans. Just ask the US Chamber of Commerce. Ask George bush.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA And in terms of propaganda, the only one here spreading propaganda is you. YOU'RE THE ONE stating that the term 'REPUBLIC' should not be used in the title of our government even though it is. America was NEVER a "DEMOCRACY". It was always a "..republic, if you can keep it." That is a famous quote. Never did I spread any propaganda. I simply said the truth. America IS NOT A DEMOCRACY! I can not name one nation on Earth that is a democracy. They're all Republics or Democratic Republics
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195 America is a Democracy. If you hate America so much why don't you join your communist republican friends in communist China? republicans voted with their feet when they closed factories here and moved them to communist China. Why do you do mental gymnastics to defend communist republican traitors to America?
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA If American businesses didn't didn't have factories in China, then most companies would ultimately fail or have slow productivity ESPECIALLY after Obama's increase in taxes, on top of the current high employment taxes, benefits, and wages in the country. It would make sense that factories in the states would increase employment but not from a statistical point of view looking at the increasing overhead. It would damage employment as the number of businesses would fall.
wslx0195 1 year ago
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@wslx0195: If American businesses didn't didn't have factories in China,...
JM: They would be forced to build factories in America. The money paid in wages would stay in a continuous loop of wages...consuming...wages..consuming....JUST like it did before we saw widespread outsourcing. That's the way it worked in America for 200 years before outsourcing. But you would rather build up communist China instead of America. WHY?
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA Funny that you say you want the power to the people when all you left-wingers want the government to have more power. Obama-care, bailouts, and government take-overs of the private sector only grant the government more power eliminating the private sector. Look in the history books, ROME was a flourishing republic before more left-winger socialists moved into power. They did bailouts and offered the people security through power, and in end became an oligarchy (falsely aka monarchy)
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195 Oligarchy is what republican America has already turned into. A corporate oligarchy is what America already is. America has now become a two class society...the haves and the have-nots. The transformation is already complete. republicans created a permanent underclass in America by selling out to the communist Chinese. God damn traitors to hell.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA No an Oligarchy is what the extremist left-wingers want the US Government to become. They want jobs, healthcare, housing, welfare, and corporations to be seized, controlled, and distributed by the government. THAT is an oligarchy. Elimination of private business and corporate (the people) sectors from having any control creates less control to the people. Is that what you want? The USA to become the USSA? Because that is the road we are taking and it starts by puting money in the gov.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195: Elimination of private business and corporate (the people) sectors from having any control creates less control to the people.
JM: You're stark raving insane. You just said that corporations having control is the same as the people having control. You've completely lost your mind.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA Do you know what a corporation is? They are run by the people you idiot. You think you give more power to the people by transferring power to the government? I am right. You are wrong. Do some research.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195: Do you know what a corporation is?
JM: A corporation is an inanimate object....NOT a person. Our government is a representative government...which means it is literally the people. A corporation is a very narrow group of wealthy people, not the average ordinary citizen. The government is made up of representatives of the people, not just the stock holders. THAT's the difference. You worship the elite few, I support and defend America.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA You defend a government of few elites who control the fate of soldiers and use propaganda machines and broken promises. You support these politicians in power who brainwash you into thinking that it's as easy said as done to just give more jobs and remove our corporations from China and other countries. They spread so much bs. So yes, I will support corporations over government. And btw, a corporation being an entity apart from a person does not mean it does not operate in law...
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195 A republic means a government for/by the people. It does not reflect a type of commerce or economy (capitalism or communism). China is a communist republic, and the USA is a capitalist Federal (made up of individual governments of the states) Republic. I can tell that you have learned a lot from talking to me, or you refused to learn and you still don't know the meaning to democracy, republic, or multinational trade.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195: China is a communist..
JM: Why do you choose to be a communist instead of an American? When did it become OK in America to profit by communism? If you love communism so much why don't you go live there and leave America alone?
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@wslx0195: China is a communist..
JM: Why do you choose to be a communist instead of an American? When did it become OK in America to profit by communism? If you love communism so much why don't you go live there and leave America alone?
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA Lol you are so stupid. This is a never ending circle with you. The reason why POLITICIANS use the term democracy because we use democracy to vote them in power. We vote someone in power to vote for laws. That also makes us a republic. We don't directly vote for laws... Democracy is everything in campaigns because it gives the politicians power to make the written laws.. Idiot!
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195 The laws and propositions we vote for or proposed by politicians, so even if you feel like you're voting for a law, you're only voting for a law that someone else was able to bring to the table. Once again, we are a republic. We vote for laws through a conduit; a politician. Once passed, these bills become the law. We have a law created by the people through individuals of power, and that makes us a republic as well. I can go on and prove you wrong.
wslx0195 1 year ago
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@wslx0195: We have a law created by the people...
JM: ...a Democracy. Thanks again.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA A law created by the people, put into writing, through politicians. That is a Republic. You have the arrogance of an old dog not accepting new terms.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195 Or more specific, these politicians are voted for, by the people, but they pass the laws for us. That's not democracy as the people do not have direct power of majority. I'm not arrogant once again. I'm' just repeating the facts. If you continue to argue, you show proof that you're too arrogant to look up the government system of the United States. Even check wiki for all I care.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195: we use democracy to vote them in power.
JM: So the make-up of our government is a choice made by the people. That makes the government...the people. The people....the government...one and the same. Thanks for clearing that up. So we would want the power to reside in...the people, not the corporations, right?...since we don't vote for the boards of directors. I knew you'd come around.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA We vote for the board of directors. We vote for politicians. Ok.. Now who makes the laws? Who is in charge of the government and who put the laws in writing? The few people in power do after we vote them in. That is a republic. You're welcome. I'm glad I finally got you to understand what makes a republic. Otherwise, a democracy would mean we would not need a politician to take power. We individually would have direct power by majority. And, there would be no written law.
wslx0195 1 year ago
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@wslx0195: We vote for the board of directors. We vote for politicians.
JM: You disengenuous lying piece of crap. We don't vote for the board. Only the shareholders do. EVERY American can vote for their representative.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA And btw, thats correct shareholders vote for the chairman and board members. Sorry to assume. I am a shareholder myself. Not enough to be a primary to vote, but point being we vote for someone else to make decisions and laws.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195: You defend a government of few elites..
JM: You don't like em?....VOTE THEM THE FUCK OUT ! ! ! !!!!!!!
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@wslx0195: They are run by the people you idiot.
JM: Corporations only represnt the elite stock holders....not the average citizen. The founders described our government this way: A government of the people, for the people and by the people. The government IS the people. You've been brainwashed to think that corporations are people. You're stark...raving...insane.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA Explain to me how government having control gives people control. DId you know that corporations operate in state, or federal law and are limited to that? You're nothing more than a flamed conspiracy theorist idiot.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195: Explain to me how government having control gives people control.
JM: In the first place, you're an ASShole. I am not advocating an oppressive dictatorship. That's just some ASSHOLE right-wing stuff you''ve been brainwashed with...jerk! Idiot asshole. You're DROWNING in right-wing koolaid. Nobody is advocating we turn into the Soviet Union...you fucking idiot. CEOs used to make 40 times the average worker. Now they make Four-HUNDRED times the average worker. THAT's the point.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA Ok. They make money. Thats what business is all about. Are you considering taking control of the money that these corporations make by earning just because they make so much?? Are you considering some kind of distribution? That is communism. And, it wasnt a right wing person who allowed the buyout of large, failing corporations, it was a socialist, left-wing group. IMO corporations should be allowed to fail to allow small businesses to rise. But nothing wrong with large income.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@JetMechMA IF YOU post one more thing without showing sign that you have read, absorbed, and understood what I said, or without researching the American government and what it is, then I will ignore you like the rest of the idiots. You show no sign of doing research to prove me wrong with facts. Is it because you are afraid to read the truth? I live with extreme leftwingers and they would be ashamed of how stupid you make them look. They know the USA is a republic, too.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195: then I will ignore you like the rest of the idiots.
JM: You will retreat back into your anti-American communist republican cult mantras that only support your communist cult. ...because you are uneducable. You are the future citizen of the American idiocracy. Cult members always run and hide from the debate when they have lost. Go run to your cult and ask them for a cult mantra chant to help you deny reality. You are a gonner. You are uneducable. You are land fill. A dead-ender.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@wslx0195 republicans sold out America to the communist Chinese who now use that technology to make their oppressive communist armies better. What did you THINK they were doing with all that fuckin republican investment money?
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA You attacking me directly (calling me naive and a hater of America) is just low. An assault like that in a debate shows insecurity and inability to elaborate on counter-arguments. You're spreading propaganda by saying I am a hater of America by refusing to call it a Democracy. America is not a democracy. A democracy means ruling majority IS law. But, in the US, we have laws that govern the democracy making it a Republic. Constitution is law so we're a Constitutional (Democratic) Rep.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195: America is not a democracy.
JM: Saying that is a communist republican cult mantra, that's all. Anti-American republicans chant that cult mantra LIE because they don't want to admit that America is a Union....a Union of States and that America is a Democracy run by the people, because the word Democracy sounds like the word Democrat. Your right-wing talk radio brainwashing masters teach you to hate our American Democracy. You're a slack jawed idiot. Hypnotized.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA You need to learn what the meaning of a Republic is. Yes America is a Union.. so what? Doesn't mean it isnt a republic. You are so fucking stupid I will not argue with you any more. You can't win a fight with an idiot. Look up the term "republic". Final time I will say this, and I will say the full name. America is a FEDERAL PRESIDENTIAL CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC!
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195: Yes America is a Union.. so what?
JM: I see, you only believe in the building blocks of America that fit your republican ideals...never mind that the founders built America from the ground up as a union...that in so doing they proved the basic necessity of unionism. WE fought a fucking civil war over it...that's how strongly the founders felt about unionism. But in your hypnotized republican mind you can deny any reality that doesn't support your anti-American republican hypnosis.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA You're an idiot. You only quoted the first part of what I was saying. The UNION has NOTHING TO DO with republics or democracy. That's my point. You fucking word, twisting libral. You're just the like the worst of them. And I never said I worship corporations. You twist words in your strategy. You are a complete idiot. I am done. Btw, a Federal/Federation means a Union of individual governments as one, which is what we are. We are a Federal Constitutional Republic. Once again...
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195: The UNION has NOTHING TO DO with republics or democracy.
JM: You're anti-union which is anti-American and I proved it.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA My point is that the union is part of a Federation of Republics. Did you know that France, Germany, England, and all other European countries are republics? They have a system of democracy to vote people into power just like the USA. Are you going to use them as a model in your agenda to prove me wrong? Of course not because theyre a capitalist federation of republics known as the European Union, which is similar to the Union of the states, which is also a republic.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195: My point is that the union ...
JM: Union, union, union...alright already, we get it. Unions and unionism is the way the westerrn world operates. So why did you right-wingers decimate America by busting all the unions?
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA You're making a diversive tactic.. And it's not us right-wingers. Is it not the left-wing president who wanted to sue the state of Arizona for enforcing federal immigration law that has been ignored by your beloved government?
wslx0195 1 year ago
@JetMechMA And, was it not the leftist parties in california who wanted to boycott trade from Arizona? It sounds to me that you're confused on which party is breaking up the union.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195: was it not the leftist parties in california who wanted to boycott trade from Arizona?
JM: They are protecting the rights of Mexican-Americans from racial profiling...you racists son of a bitch you. That's the difference between a real American and a republican. Real Americans don't expect Mexican-Americans to have to prove their citizenship to anyone. It's UN-Constitutional you dumbass!
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA Do you know what proof of citizenship is? It's a state ID or license. EVERYONE is required to carry it. Not just Mexican-Americans. I have Mexican-American and Mexican friends. The leftist parties are the ones who started the race-card "racial profiling" issue as an argument in their agenda against the bill. However, if you read the AZ Senate Bill, it never mentions any clue related to racial profiling or act that would lead to such an act.
wslx0195 1 year ago
@wslx0195: Do you know what proof of citizenship is? It's a state ID or license. EVERYONE is required to carry it.
JM: Dumbass, you don't even know that it's not true. Only your right-wing communists want to make it true. But it's unconstitutional. Didn't you know you have a right to privacy?
JetMechMA 1 year ago
@JetMechMA I like how you're still insulting me as you're becoming frustrated. We do have the right to privacy... in privacy but not in public. The police also have the right to investigation. You can refuse to show an officer of the law your id, but if they feel suspicious of that, then they have the right to further investigate. This means, to look up who you are, or ask questions. Sure you don't have to answer them, but that will only make matters more irritating.
wslx0195 1 year ago