I love Thomas More. He was one of the few people at the Tudor court with morals and integrity. Even under threat of death, he remained true to himself and true to his beliefs. He's a good role model for us all.
@SorokChyetirye Even more when protestantism as a whole started as a more progresist way of being a christian. And More was a progresist in many aspects...
@SorokChyetirye Of course as a Catholic, he was a honest one, and he died before accepting a king as head of the church. I'm not a believer, but I think that was brave of him. But More was also a humanist, if you've read Utopia you realize how a compasionate soul he had, its....shocking and sad to know he supported those religious prosecutions.
@Neramy: the Catholicism of the Middle Ages professed that if you went without Mass, you were damned and separated from God (thus the Church instead of Christ was the intervening factor -- a fallacy). Thus, Thomas More, Mary Tudor, and many others believed that if you could force someone to return to the Mass, you would save their soul. They did not see it as religious persecution; they saw it as harming the body to save the soul.
@ladyvignette But not only they forced people to return to mass, but they burnt some, didn't they?..did they think that was good for their souls or was it just revenge or hate?..........I might be wrong about the facts, I mean, I'm not a historian nor a theologist. I'm really interested in Thomas More, though and the fact of him being a prosecutor is kind of....sad to me.....(sorry if I make mistakes in english ;) )
@Neramy: yes, they did burn some Protestants, and yes, they thought that purification by fire might save their soul. It was a sad time in world history, and the unfortunate consequence of Henry VIII's sinful ambition, to bring the Reformation to England by force.
@nualaseamus its strange...More was so much head of his time in some aspects that many of us (who like history and stuff like that) tend to idealize him and sometimes forget those arrests and executions. Indeed, many times, thinking and reading about him, I wished they never happened at all....so More could match my idealization, but they happened. (sorry about my poor english, doing my best :D)
He was a man of his time, for better and worst. Don`t except a person from the 16th century to think like us. Luther also had a negative view of the education of women, unlike More, and even wrote against the Jews at the end of his life.
It´s amazing how these fundamentalist Protestants forget so easily all the persecutions of Catholics that took place by Protestants in the 16th and 17th centuries. John Calvin was more a inquisitor during his rule in Geneva then Thomas More ever was.
dude thank you so much xD. you refreshed my memory of the movie and how much of a great man Thomas More is. you also helped me out finish my essay about why he's considered a martyr. thank you
@rightlydivide: Sir Thomas More never burned anyone at the stake -- that is a myth propagated by the Reformists during the reign of Elizabeth I. (He did arrest Reformists as part of his official duties for the crown, but played no role in their prosecution or execution.)
@ladyvignette You have no clue what you are talking about, the man was basically an inquisitor and the great antagonist of the Bible believing William Tyndale. Thomas More is remembered as some sort of hero only by communists, papists and occultists of all stripes.
@rightlydivide ... yeah, you might want to read a few history books. Thomas More was not a murderer -- the most he ever did was sign a few arrest warrants.
The greatest thinker and philosopher of the XVI English century. A great man, and though I have some doubt on his Santity (as I have always about "political" Saints, as also Joan d'Arc), I can only admire him.
@dapontemozart1989 Actually in the case of More, he is one of the few "sane" saints. Most people who willignly accept martyrdom are a bit tipsy, but More did not pursue it, and tried his very hardest to fight it without compromising his principals. In the end, he refused to compromise his characer and went to his death, not like he wanted it, but just becuase he would not budge.
My English is bad, I´sorry , I´m from Spain, but I want to thank for this work and I have liked very much. I thik he was a good man, and a great thinker, and we must judge him in his historical context, with regard to judgments about faith, he was brave, and he didn´t change his opinion by political iussues or fear. Wish there were more men in our society, politics, as he
The characters in The Tudors series were sublime. I would have to pick Thomas More as a favorite though. So sad that he paid with his life for his convictions.
I don't think he would have been thrilled to learn that the church made him a saint, but he was a man ahead of his time for the most part. A great novelist as well. Utopia was a good book.
Overall - pretty good, but More did cause the arrests Lutherans and was directly responsible for writs of execution for heretics who were burned at the stake. The first writ was issued in 1530 for Thomas Hitton. George Constantine & John Tewksbury were also executed at More's direction. (John Guy, "A Daughter's Love" pgs.195-197.)
I like that you tried to provide actual historic context to the popular show. :)
@ladyvignette It's a pretty good read, academic but with a strong narrative - Guy also wrote bio's of both Sir Thomas More & Cardinal Wolsey, plus quite a bit on historical Tudor England.
In "God's Gentle Rebels: Great Saints of Christianity" (Crossroad, 1995, p. 199), Christan Feldman argues that in trials of heresy, More "exhausted every possibility to preserve the religious deviants from death. He himself never sent a single heretic to the stake. Some would charge him with the three or four executions that occurred at the end of his term in office, but these would seem to be, at most, a question of putting his signature to judgments passed by others and no longer reversible."
@nualaseamus In "God's Gentle Rebels" (Crossroad, 1995, p. 199), Christan Feldman argues that in trials of heresy, More "exhausted every possibility to preserve the religious deviants from death. He himself never sent a single heretic to the stake. Some would charge him with the three or four executions that occurred at the end of his term in office, but these would seem to be, at most, a question of putting his signature to judgments passed by others and no longer reversible."
@KrazyKryptonian Why are we trying to defend More as not being an executioner? He was fighting for the truth: that the Pope, not the King nor the individual, had the final word in all spiritual matters, including marriage.
Thomas Moore was a man, but the act of his muder made him a martry for the Christian faith, and hence a saint. While others 'reformed" the church to their own benefit he kept faith. Jesus established the church. Not Martin Luther. Not Henry VIII. And not any of the thousands who continually think they can do a better job than Jesus did by setting up their new 'bible based" churches.
Jesus also said the only requirement for salvation is faith in Him (John 3:16), which means Jesus is not Protestant or Catholic, and probably would not care which denomination His followers worshiped in.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Great tribute to this man? Don't be deceived by entertainment. Thomas More was not a truth seeker.....he burned to death those who came to the knowledge of the truth and truth was more available to him than it was to the lay poor man. He was another typical hateful Catholic fascist that wielded their ultimate law not allowing others to have an opinion. He was a murderer during this fascist time and deserved more than having his head cut off.
Anyone who has read up on Thomas More knows he was no saint (ha ha) but he is innocent of the allegations you have leveled against him. Please do some reading before you condemn him through a veil of anti-Catholicism.
the problem is...we can´t ever jugde a man who lived a 500 years for the cannons of nowadays. It necessary leads to a poor historical judgement. More was flawed, imperfect, he wasn´t a saint, but a hero nonetheless.
But he was guilty of wore then the allegations presented. He did not give his life for God, but for the power of the Pope of Rome. They are not the same thing.
What was he guilty of? I have read biographies on More, and he did nothing worthy of modern condemnation. His only crime was to be passionate about his faith and arrest Protestants under the new government... but he had nothing to do with their deaths, he was a kind and tolerant father, he educated his daughters in a time when women were to remain ignorant, and... really, I don't see how anyone could have a problem with him.
His crime of treason was in refusing to take the Oath of Supremacy (Validating that Henry was head of Church in England) & the Oath of Succession (removing Katherine's daughters from Succession) - he offer to vow to succession & Anne as Queen, but refused Oath of Supremacy
Catholic fascists..yeah because you know in that time fascists existed...don´t be an idiot. How can you use a term and an ideology created in the XX century to talk about a man who lived in the XVI century?
That's a good point. The Protestant reformation was mostly a response to church corruption. Thomas More was pretty much un-corruptable. I'm not a Catholic, but I have great respect for his courage and integrity.
Ironically Thomas Moore & Martin Luther did have one thing in common. They both opposed Henry VII's divorce from Katherine. Moore because of his faith in the pope's judgement & Luther because he was disgusted that his ideas were being used in such a way.
Really good! One small point (if already made forgive me) There is no evidence to say that Thomas did intend to become a monk. He did spend about 4 years with the Carthusians in the London Charterhouse in devotion and prayer but never spoke of taking vows.
I love this video. The clips are very well put together. I like the music, too. What is it?
I read the commentars about Will Roper. I think he sometimes was a reformist in his youth but then he became Catholic. It was through Wolseys "reign" and Roper had a lot of interviews with More and Margaret about this matter. And then he changed his opinion, mainly under influence of later events familiar to us.
I could not find confirmation either way. My research turned up conflicting reports. Some said Roper was a Catholic, and others that he wrote on the Reformation.
Many Catholics of the time payed lip serves to the new order, to protect themselves and their family's from the bloke as Roper did, but read his writing at the times he was a catholic through and through. Also Thomas More is a Saint he was canonized in 1935, just as a man knighted by the
The 2 churches at this point were not as cut @ dried as now. Both Katherine @ Moore were interested in the works of Erasmus. The views of people like Anne Boleyn @ Cromwell seemed beyond the pale for them but is retrospect there seems very little difference in their respective stances.
hi... William Roper was actually a Catholic first...became a Lutheran and when he wanted to marry Margaret More, Thomas More said he would only marry his daughter to a Catholic. He did have some arguments for sometime but eventually returned to Catholicism. There's a lot of info on Thomas more and His Family and his relations with the King and the Pope in a movie just about Thomas More " A man of the People'...
THANKS!- Season II of Tudor's (Showtime) has just started in Australia - can't wait to see it. I refer you all to a brilliant movie made in 1966 - 'A Man For All Seasons' - Actor Paul Scofield (sadly deceased this year) played the Oscar-winning central role of Sir Thomas More. Incidently, Paul Scofield was, in real life very much like the wonderful man of conviction he played. He (Paul) refused a knighhood from British monarchy and lived a humble actor's life. RIP- I honour both their lives.
I love Thomas More. He was one of the few people at the Tudor court with morals and integrity. Even under threat of death, he remained true to himself and true to his beliefs. He's a good role model for us all.
bloodncorsets 4 months ago
@SorokChyetirye Even more when protestantism as a whole started as a more progresist way of being a christian. And More was a progresist in many aspects...
Neramy 5 months ago
@SorokChyetirye Of course as a Catholic, he was a honest one, and he died before accepting a king as head of the church. I'm not a believer, but I think that was brave of him. But More was also a humanist, if you've read Utopia you realize how a compasionate soul he had, its....shocking and sad to know he supported those religious prosecutions.
Neramy 5 months ago
@Neramy: the Catholicism of the Middle Ages professed that if you went without Mass, you were damned and separated from God (thus the Church instead of Christ was the intervening factor -- a fallacy). Thus, Thomas More, Mary Tudor, and many others believed that if you could force someone to return to the Mass, you would save their soul. They did not see it as religious persecution; they saw it as harming the body to save the soul.
ladyvignette 5 months ago
@ladyvignette But not only they forced people to return to mass, but they burnt some, didn't they?..did they think that was good for their souls or was it just revenge or hate?..........I might be wrong about the facts, I mean, I'm not a historian nor a theologist. I'm really interested in Thomas More, though and the fact of him being a prosecutor is kind of....sad to me.....(sorry if I make mistakes in english ;) )
Neramy 2 months ago
@Neramy: yes, they did burn some Protestants, and yes, they thought that purification by fire might save their soul. It was a sad time in world history, and the unfortunate consequence of Henry VIII's sinful ambition, to bring the Reformation to England by force.
ladyvignette 2 months ago
@nualaseamus its strange...More was so much head of his time in some aspects that many of us (who like history and stuff like that) tend to idealize him and sometimes forget those arrests and executions. Indeed, many times, thinking and reading about him, I wished they never happened at all....so More could match my idealization, but they happened. (sorry about my poor english, doing my best :D)
Neramy 5 months ago
Nice, very nice. Thank you
Florian30000 9 months ago
very well done!!!!
Chocodreamgirl1 10 months ago
I've found it!
it's 322flames - the Miceteeth
Watershepherd 11 months ago
What s the name of the song ?
Watershepherd 11 months ago
@Watershepherd: I'm afraid I don't remember; something by Immediate Music.
ladyvignette 11 months ago
He was a man of his time, for better and worst. Don`t except a person from the 16th century to think like us. Luther also had a negative view of the education of women, unlike More, and even wrote against the Jews at the end of his life.
universalist75 11 months ago
Como se llama la cancion,por favor???Gracias por el video,muy bien hechoo.
Osvaldofanrios 1 year ago
Very nicely done. Erasmus was right, Thomas truly was "a man for all seasons"...and Jeremy Northam was excellent in depicting him.
KrazyKryptonian 1 year ago
It´s amazing how these fundamentalist Protestants forget so easily all the persecutions of Catholics that took place by Protestants in the 16th and 17th centuries. John Calvin was more a inquisitor during his rule in Geneva then Thomas More ever was.
universalist75 1 year ago
dude thank you so much xD. you refreshed my memory of the movie and how much of a great man Thomas More is. you also helped me out finish my essay about why he's considered a martyr. thank you
Itachi56723 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
He was a murderer, they should have burned him alive, but he was given a quick death instead; coward.
rightlydivide 1 year ago
@rightlydivide: Sir Thomas More never burned anyone at the stake -- that is a myth propagated by the Reformists during the reign of Elizabeth I. (He did arrest Reformists as part of his official duties for the crown, but played no role in their prosecution or execution.)
ladyvignette 1 year ago 2
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universalist75 1 year ago
@ladyvignette You have no clue what you are talking about, the man was basically an inquisitor and the great antagonist of the Bible believing William Tyndale. Thomas More is remembered as some sort of hero only by communists, papists and occultists of all stripes.
WorshipInTruth 1 year ago
@WorshipInTruth Clowns not included, like you.
universalist75 1 year ago
@rightlydivide ... yeah, you might want to read a few history books. Thomas More was not a murderer -- the most he ever did was sign a few arrest warrants.
ladyvignette 1 year ago 2
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universalist75 1 year ago
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universalist75 1 year ago
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universalist75 1 year ago
The greatest thinker and philosopher of the XVI English century. A great man, and though I have some doubt on his Santity (as I have always about "political" Saints, as also Joan d'Arc), I can only admire him.
dapontemozart1989 1 year ago
@dapontemozart1989 Actually in the case of More, he is one of the few "sane" saints. Most people who willignly accept martyrdom are a bit tipsy, but More did not pursue it, and tried his very hardest to fight it without compromising his principals. In the end, he refused to compromise his characer and went to his death, not like he wanted it, but just becuase he would not budge.
Nelsonhojax15 1 year ago
well. You forgot to say that he is: a saint, and a martyr. Saint Thomas Morus, ora pro nobis!
pedrohqb 1 year ago
Paradojic: Martir, and murder.
darjavauch1 1 year ago
@darjavauch1 : why murder?
rosariosegurag 1 year ago
@darjavauch1 I'm sorry, I don't know English very well, and I understood it wrong. I confused about murder (with murderer).
rosariosegurag 1 year ago
My English is bad, I´sorry , I´m from Spain, but I want to thank for this work and I have liked very much. I thik he was a good man, and a great thinker, and we must judge him in his historical context, with regard to judgments about faith, he was brave, and he didn´t change his opinion by political iussues or fear. Wish there were more men in our society, politics, as he
rosariosegurag 1 year ago
The characters in The Tudors series were sublime. I would have to pick Thomas More as a favorite though. So sad that he paid with his life for his convictions.
Shackamaxon 1 year ago
I don't think he would have been thrilled to learn that the church made him a saint, but he was a man ahead of his time for the most part. A great novelist as well. Utopia was a good book.
KatComixProductions 2 years ago
he is one of the very few men in The Tudors whom I can trully respect.
astridbelge 2 years ago 5
Overall - pretty good, but More did cause the arrests Lutherans and was directly responsible for writs of execution for heretics who were burned at the stake. The first writ was issued in 1530 for Thomas Hitton. George Constantine & John Tewksbury were also executed at More's direction. (John Guy, "A Daughter's Love" pgs.195-197.)
I like that you tried to provide actual historic context to the popular show. :)
nualaseamus 2 years ago
@nualaseamus: I will have to read that biography -- thanks for mentioning it. =)
ladyvignette 1 year ago
@ladyvignette It's a pretty good read, academic but with a strong narrative - Guy also wrote bio's of both Sir Thomas More & Cardinal Wolsey, plus quite a bit on historical Tudor England.
nualaseamus 1 year ago
In "God's Gentle Rebels: Great Saints of Christianity" (Crossroad, 1995, p. 199), Christan Feldman argues that in trials of heresy, More "exhausted every possibility to preserve the religious deviants from death. He himself never sent a single heretic to the stake. Some would charge him with the three or four executions that occurred at the end of his term in office, but these would seem to be, at most, a question of putting his signature to judgments passed by others and no longer reversible."
KrazyKryptonian 9 months ago
@nualaseamus In "God's Gentle Rebels" (Crossroad, 1995, p. 199), Christan Feldman argues that in trials of heresy, More "exhausted every possibility to preserve the religious deviants from death. He himself never sent a single heretic to the stake. Some would charge him with the three or four executions that occurred at the end of his term in office, but these would seem to be, at most, a question of putting his signature to judgments passed by others and no longer reversible."
KrazyKryptonian 8 months ago
@KrazyKryptonian Why are we trying to defend More as not being an executioner? He was fighting for the truth: that the Pope, not the King nor the individual, had the final word in all spiritual matters, including marriage.
SorokChyetirye 8 months ago
Thomas Moore was a man, but the act of his muder made him a martry for the Christian faith, and hence a saint. While others 'reformed" the church to their own benefit he kept faith. Jesus established the church. Not Martin Luther. Not Henry VIII. And not any of the thousands who continually think they can do a better job than Jesus did by setting up their new 'bible based" churches.
jhnnygwboy 2 years ago 4
Jesus also said the only requirement for salvation is faith in Him (John 3:16), which means Jesus is not Protestant or Catholic, and probably would not care which denomination His followers worshiped in.
ladyvignette 2 years ago
Thomas More is the BEST!
popbritglamlife 2 years ago 16
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Great tribute to this man? Don't be deceived by entertainment. Thomas More was not a truth seeker.....he burned to death those who came to the knowledge of the truth and truth was more available to him than it was to the lay poor man. He was another typical hateful Catholic fascist that wielded their ultimate law not allowing others to have an opinion. He was a murderer during this fascist time and deserved more than having his head cut off.
ernestmalta5591 2 years ago
Anyone who has read up on Thomas More knows he was no saint (ha ha) but he is innocent of the allegations you have leveled against him. Please do some reading before you condemn him through a veil of anti-Catholicism.
ladyvignette 2 years ago
what the other accusations on More? Apart the burn of heretics?
DaniMajor 2 years ago
the problem is...we can´t ever jugde a man who lived a 500 years for the cannons of nowadays. It necessary leads to a poor historical judgement. More was flawed, imperfect, he wasn´t a saint, but a hero nonetheless.
DaniMajor 2 years ago
But he was guilty of wore then the allegations presented. He did not give his life for God, but for the power of the Pope of Rome. They are not the same thing.
lollipopfop 2 years ago
What was he guilty of? I have read biographies on More, and he did nothing worthy of modern condemnation. His only crime was to be passionate about his faith and arrest Protestants under the new government... but he had nothing to do with their deaths, he was a kind and tolerant father, he educated his daughters in a time when women were to remain ignorant, and... really, I don't see how anyone could have a problem with him.
ladyvignette 2 years ago
His crime of treason was in refusing to take the Oath of Supremacy (Validating that Henry was head of Church in England) & the Oath of Succession (removing Katherine's daughters from Succession) - he offer to vow to succession & Anne as Queen, but refused Oath of Supremacy
nualaseamus 2 years ago
He gave his life for the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic, Church for which he is not only a martyr but also a Saint.
soccermagic88 2 years ago 14
@soccermagic88 Yep, he was a traitor! So he died a traitor !
StanierBlack5LMS 11 months ago
Catholic fascists..yeah because you know in that time fascists existed...don´t be an idiot. How can you use a term and an ideology created in the XX century to talk about a man who lived in the XVI century?
DaniMajor 2 years ago 2
Just say this if all Catholics were like Thomas More it would be no need for Reformation
ImperialGuard9001 2 years ago 3
That's a good point. The Protestant reformation was mostly a response to church corruption. Thomas More was pretty much un-corruptable. I'm not a Catholic, but I have great respect for his courage and integrity.
canadarox14 2 years ago 2
This is the best video hands down of The Tudors on St/Sir Thomas More! Awesome!!!! Thank you !!!!
DiVittorioRoses 2 years ago
Ironically Thomas Moore & Martin Luther did have one thing in common. They both opposed Henry VII's divorce from Katherine. Moore because of his faith in the pope's judgement & Luther because he was disgusted that his ideas were being used in such a way.
ollierat9 3 years ago 2
fantastic. But I prefered Catherine/Anne because of the contrast. Maybe you could do a More/Wolsey or a More/Cromwell or something...
lookinglass123 3 years ago
Really good! One small point (if already made forgive me) There is no evidence to say that Thomas did intend to become a monk. He did spend about 4 years with the Carthusians in the London Charterhouse in devotion and prayer but never spoke of taking vows.
Tillyvalle 3 years ago
Well Done! Thank You!
JPNfan 3 years ago
i thought u would wanna know that one fact in this video actually inspired a chappie in my story so i want to thank u for that =]
Rocknrollgf12 3 years ago
I love this video. The clips are very well put together. I like the music, too. What is it?
I read the commentars about Will Roper. I think he sometimes was a reformist in his youth but then he became Catholic. It was through Wolseys "reign" and Roper had a lot of interviews with More and Margaret about this matter. And then he changed his opinion, mainly under influence of later events familiar to us.
archeapeiron 3 years ago
Margaret Mores husband was not a reformist, William Roper remained a Roman Catholic, until he died and so did Margaret.
walshy2331 3 years ago 2
sorry the movie is "A man for all seasons' not a man of the people...
AQUATICLOVER111 3 years ago
Margaret Mores husband was not a reformist, William Roper remained a Roman Catholic, until he died and so did Margaret.
walshy2331 3 years ago 2
I could not find confirmation either way. My research turned up conflicting reports. Some said Roper was a Catholic, and others that he wrote on the Reformation.
ladyvignette 3 years ago
Many Catholics of the time payed lip serves to the new order, to protect themselves and their family's from the bloke as Roper did, but read his writing at the times he was a catholic through and through. Also Thomas More is a Saint he was canonized in 1935, just as a man knighted by the
walshy2331 3 years ago
Oh, well. Still a good video. ;)
And yes, I am well aware that he was sainted. LOL
ladyvignette 3 years ago
Queen is a Sir
*bloke=block
walshy2331 3 years ago
The 2 churches at this point were not as cut @ dried as now. Both Katherine @ Moore were interested in the works of Erasmus. The views of people like Anne Boleyn @ Cromwell seemed beyond the pale for them but is retrospect there seems very little difference in their respective stances.
ollierat9 3 years ago
hi... William Roper was actually a Catholic first...became a Lutheran and when he wanted to marry Margaret More, Thomas More said he would only marry his daughter to a Catholic. He did have some arguments for sometime but eventually returned to Catholicism. There's a lot of info on Thomas more and His Family and his relations with the King and the Pope in a movie just about Thomas More " A man of the People'...
AQUATICLOVER111 3 years ago 2
thank you, I was just rewatching tudor tonight, and am so intriqued by More. I enjoyed your video
themooster23 3 years ago
THANKS!- Season II of Tudor's (Showtime) has just started in Australia - can't wait to see it. I refer you all to a brilliant movie made in 1966 - 'A Man For All Seasons' - Actor Paul Scofield (sadly deceased this year) played the Oscar-winning central role of Sir Thomas More. Incidently, Paul Scofield was, in real life very much like the wonderful man of conviction he played. He (Paul) refused a knighhood from British monarchy and lived a humble actor's life. RIP- I honour both their lives.
caithnesscath 3 years ago
A Man For All Seasons is amazing!
ladyvignette 3 years ago
Great to hear you have seen it. It's an oldie but a goody!
caithnesscath 3 years ago
I agree
YeOldeTune 3 years ago
I near cried watching that. He was such a brilliant man.
johnliz4ever 3 years ago 2
Love it! great tribute to a great man!
Ladyjaxs 3 years ago
Loved it and wey you brought me to tears near again!!
but very touching it is sad his ending and also how it affected his family as a whole.
DarkLadyAthena1 3 years ago
It should be a crime to make me cry this early in the morning. Great video and very touching.
modernelegance 3 years ago
I'm sorry! If it helps, I actually started crying last night while making it. =D
ladyvignette 3 years ago