The Gospel of Thomas 3/3 (Christian Gnostic)

[elena010809]

do you know which scholars claim Gospel of Thomas is a Gnostic text?

[ferarias1up]

i get it ;)

[RealEros1]

How is this gospel true? most gnostic texts seem to contradict the bible or seem to pursue knowledge over anything else and we are told by solomon that knowledge is meaningless and that we are to not be overwise.If you can prove this text to be true then i would love to read it :)

[PurpleNurpleUrple]

@RealEros1 Can you prove the Gospel of Mark to be true? Or Luke? Or Matthew? Or John? In my opinion this isn't supposed to be concluded or announced as truth, rather it's meant to be looked upon at a personal perspective. What does it say to you? Thats more important than being "true". But then again this is coming from a lay man.

[RealEros1]

@PurpleNurpleUrple It's nice to have a reply and from what am seeing

am guessing you see works like solomons and thomas to be purely for ourselfs rather then the highest truth.

Truth is very high and it has more power when it has a common agreedment so I prefer the bible then a text that may be useful but not as great then the gospels for those hold great understanding.

[PurpleNurpleUrple]

@RealEros1 Well if you understand how the Christian bible was formed during the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D you would see that they rejected agnostic texts such as the Gospel of Thomas because it denounced the authority of the early church. So you would have to believe that the Council was guided by God when forming the bible. Otherwise there is no reason to doubt this Gospel . It is also a likely possibility that the Gospel of Thomas is older than any gospel found in the canonized bible.

[RealEros1]

@PurpleNurpleUrple Actually the new testament was already made into a list before they even considered christianty.The new testament and the gnostic texts were decided first by a one man.

There's even rumors which some take as truth and some don't which is that Paul looked over the text going around at the time and he would advise others of teh true texts of God and the others false.

These are very fun books though to read since their unfamiliar with most of the public.

[BOGZASV8MA]

@RealEros1 wasnt soloman the one who requested wisdom from God? so how can he say its meaningless?

[RealEros1]

@BOGZASV8MA (1) Time has passed since I last commented, and during that time I have grown more knowledgeable about what the Bible actually states; wisdom is seen as good in the sight of God, nevertheless, gnostic knowledge/wisdom remains quite contrary to biblical knowledge and truth. I'm writing this comment considering the fact that many Christians hold these gnostic gospels, and texts, to be equivalent truths alongside the Bible's Gospels, Epistles, Acts, and so forth.

[RealEros1]

@RealEros1 (2) My concern was for my fellow Christian, not for one of curiousity (not for one simply wanting to read literature).

[BOGZASV8MA]

@RealEros1 no I disagree with you on somethings. I feel some gnostic gospels parallel with mainstream biblical teachings and some don't ..and you can tell if you read the stories comparing to the mainstream text. I feel many of these so-called religious scholars never look the gnostic text along with the mainstream to see the meaning. for instance, the book of judas has been conterfieted so many times. remember the parable of the lost sheep in the mainstream teaching.gnostic text judas is sheep

[RealEros1]

@BOGZASV8MA (3) The New Testament of the Bible focuses largely on Jesus Christ,

whether it be the Gospel accounts (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), Epistles (letters of edification), or even the book of Acts (early Christian history).

Why do I mention the obvious? For this reason: The Christians have a canon of specifically chosen writings with the intention of having unified, parallelled, and agreeing books: so the Christian --new, or old-- may have both faith and certainity as he reads.

[RealEros1]

@BOGZASV8MA (4) Moreover, God (the one of the Holy Bible) promised to fulifill his word that he made long ago with His people in the Old Testament (a canon Christians read as well),

Jesus Christ is seen as that fulifillment. God is also a being of faithfulness, never contradicting his previous words, or words to come.

Why do write these words? For this reason: Since God has always spoken, it was only reasonable to include writings proven to be of God's voice/ in tune with God's voice.

[BOGZASV8MA]

@RealEros1 i was talking about the parable of the lost sheep in comparison with one of the gnostic text how judas was the lost sheep and jesus would save him by dieing on the cross for his sins. ? you need to pay attention to what people are writing and focus what someone else is trying to communicate.... why don't you HUMBLE yourself down before you write another comment?

[RealEros1]

@BOGZASV8MA (5) I apologize, I do get carried away at times, but my comment was in response to your comment about the parable (in no way was I totally ignoring you or the content of your comment). Allow me to offer a better comment.

But before I respond with that better comment, could you reword your previous comment (the one about the parable: for clarity), or instead, we can end these comment replys, if it seems unfruitful/ unprofitable to yourself.

[Delishful]

The image that I can see when I open my eyes is a holographic projection created by my brain. I really feel like I am blind, but not blind from my front eyes but from another mode of perception that allows me to see what is really outside the skull. Do you know of any teachings by Jesus that show us how to look beyond the image the brain produces from the input of the front two eyes? Thanks

[Apocryphile1970]

@Delishful I don't know of any christian teachings as to "How To Do It" exactly, but there is a VERY interesting passage in a document called the "Gospel of the Savior," (Papyrus Berolinensis 22220) which takes place at the time of the TRANSFIGURATION which states: "....] upon the mountain and we too became like the spiritual bodies. OUR EYES OPENED UP TO EVERY SIDE, AND THE ENTIRE PLACE WAS REVEALED BEFORE US.

[Apocryphile1970]

@Delishful (Cont'd) We approached the heavens, and they rose up against each other. Those who watch the gates were disturbed. The angels were afraid, and they fled to the [...] [They] thought [that] they would all be destroyed. We saw our savior after he pierced [through] all of the heavens.

[Delishful]

@Apocryphile1970 Well, that sounds very interesting, thank you very much for that answer. I will take a look at that document. Have a wonderful day.

[InHISWord2]

I think it may be labeled heresy due to the statement in the last minutes! Since God is no respecter of persons...male/female is the same in God's eyes...no need to become male....as this writing suggests!

[Apocryphile1970]

@InHISWord2 Well, the idea, I think, is that the "Male" should not look upon the "Female" as "Female," nor should the "Female" look upon the "Male" as "Male," as it states in 2 Clemant: "2Clem 12:2-6 "For the Lord Himself, being asked by a certain person when his kingdom would come, said, When the two shall be one, and the outside as the inside, and the male with the female, neither male or female.

[Apocryphile1970]

@InHISWord2 Now the two are one, when we speak truth among ourselves, and in two bodies there shall be one soul without dissimulation.And by the outside as the inside He meaneth this: by the inside he meaneth the soul and by the outside the body. Therefore in like manner as thy body appeareth, so also let thy soul be manifest by its good works.

[Apocryphile1970]

@Apocryphile1970 And by the male with the female, neither male nor female, he meaneth this; that a brother seeing a sister should have no thought of her as a female, and that a sister seeing a brother should not have any thought of him as a male. These things if ye do, saith He, the kingdom of my father shall come."

[Apocryphile1970]

@Apocryphile1970 I think that that is the ultimate meaning, that we should look past this passing life of ours and toward the eternal natures that we will inherit. I'm not too sure, but I think this passage seems a bit out of place here, unless it is conceded that the "male" should no longer be "male" with regard to the "female."

[Apocryphile1970]

@Apocryphile1970 It may also be a just manner of speech. Seems a bit odd to single out the "female" as somehow "inferior" when in the gospels this is clearly not the case. Whatever the case, I place it just before the Gospel of Mary in the Super Gospel, a place where it ultimately makes more sense, since the same accusation from Peter appears in it.

[InHISWord2]

@Apocryphile1970 Perhaps, an odd way of saying something that has lost some meaning thru time....It did seem out of place to me as well...

Another thought is this...could it be, that since we all will become like the angels...not marrying nor being given in marriage...that it is referring to a condition of being without a gender? ....and somehow this was lost in translation?

[Apocryphile1970]

@InHISWord2 From what I understand, certain religions of the day were for males only (such as Mithras.) Jesus may simply be making it clear that females are WELCOME. Not that they are "inferior" in any way, but that they are "honorary males" in the sense that they are allowed to participate in the mysteries so often only given to "Males." Seems a bit sexist from our standpoint, but back in his day, they probably would have seemed remarkably progressive.

[InHISWord2]

@Apocryphile1970 Great answer! Thanks!

[Apocryphile1970]

@InHISWord2 I wish I had a better one. Honestly, I sometimes wonder if this isn't from some other source, mainly because the Gospel of Thomas already says in GTh 22 "Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the kingdom."

They said to him, "Then shall we enter the kingdom as babies?"

[Apocryphile1970]

@Apocryphile1970 Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

[Apocryphile1970]

@Apocryphile1970 That may be the answer, but it is hard to say definitively. Even some of the canonical gospels have supposedly "dubious" endings, especially John & Mark. That is not how I see it, mind you, but it is really hard to prove to the skeptic. It may well be that whoever copied it got just that last verse from some other source; somewhere where it might have made more sense, given the appropriate context..

[joselinema]

@Apocryphile1970 Yahshua said if you hear a different gospel do not believe.Because Yahshua died for our sins in the cross, and he is the son of God.

[Apocryphile1970]

@joselinema John 16:12: "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now."

Gospel of Thomas 92: Jesus says:

"Seek and you will find.

But the things you asked me about in past times,

and what I did not tell you in that day,

now I am willing to tell you, but you do not seek them."

[smartwarlord]

@joselinema

"Yahshua" is gibberish. his name in Hebrew was/is Yehoshua (same as Joshua) and in Aramaic it would be Yeshua.