Assignment: China - "The Week That Changed The World (Chinese Subtitles)

[sunmoonstargood]

Mao's biggest mistake was to break up with USSR. He thought he could play both super-powers. He thought if 1 super-power was brought down, it's would be easier to deal with the remaining 1. Well, when USSR was gone, USA's next target was China, & still is, there is no balance of power anymore. When the world has only 1 super-power left, it's a bully. China can's succeed without Russia, not before, not now. China can live without USA, but can't without Russia, coz Russia is China's neighbor.

[ronnieboy3]

The biggest mistake that Mao made was to choose sides in between the West and the Soviets. Being a under-developed country with little influence in the world, he should have be neutral in the Cold War. He should have opened up the country to investment and absorbed new techologies. Instead Mao wanted to become a cult leader with a billion un-educated cult followers.

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3, u r bullshit. All leading west countries hd forced China to sign Unequal Treatis, they all had Chinese blood on their hands. Mao was the 1 who abolished all of them.He hd to side with USSR, coz Russia was the only 1 west country who abolished its Unequal Treaty with China on its own & support China's cause. If Mao had sided with US, then he had to inheritate all these Unequal Treaties. Russia also supported China for Korean War, which set the foundation for China's risiing today.lol

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood Like it or not, regardless or the west's moral reprehensiblity, they had the technology and the finances. When you are piss poor you have to beg, steal, and prostitue yourself to get what you need to survive. Remember what Deng said when dealing with the US. If they slap you on your right cheek, turn your left cheek to them. By our time and not show our true strength.

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3, well, how did the west get their technology & finance? U know they hd bn poor for 1000 yrs dark age. Did they beg, steal and prostitue themself to get what they need? LOL Turn on your right cheek? U bullshit now mix Jesus with Deng. lol

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood He wouldn't have to inheritate these unequal treaties if he refused to have any foreign toops in China to inforce them. He could've declare that these treaties was null and void because it was signed under duress.

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3, Do u hv any knowledge at all? Since 1840, any Chinese gov cd just refuse to these unequal treaties? Just declare these treaties was null & void? There is no need to beg, steal, and prostitue oneself anymore? LOL

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood You don't seem to understand. These treaties can only be enforced with a military presence. At that time the empire was in decline and the nation was in chaos. Because the military was so inept and the government so corrupted that allowed foreigners to exploit. Have you ever heard of of "Gun Boat Diplomacy". Yes remove all foreign military presence but invite investment and new technologies but under Chinese supervision. This was what Deng did.

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3, r u sure u know what happened?Yes, "These treaties can only be enforced with a military presence", but to remove those treaties also Need Military presence, isn't it? How cd China show its military presence?By defeating USA $ its allies in Korean War. Then what happened? USA/West blockadee all China international trade outlets & put sanctions on China; only a handful countries of USSR's circle traded with China? U think it's a good time for China to invite USA/West's investment? lol

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood I agree with you that right after the war it was impossible. I mean eight before the war or maybe a decade have past to reconcile with the west. But would you agree with me that the GLF and the Cultural Revolution was a disaster for China? I kind of sympathies with Mao since he was a product of this generation. If I grew up in his time I would be angry and vindictive with the rest of the world.

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3, GLF happened when PRC was only 9 yrs old. Mao was a human & had his limitation. Not only he hd been a war fighter for 28 yrs & no experience as a nation builder, but also he hd very limited options at his disposal. He was confronted in 3 fronts, 1) all the west got mad at him, they only hd 1 thing in mind=strangle China to death; 2) KMT had wiped out all the little remaining gold to Taiwan, left him with nothing; 3)he hd new debts from USSR coz the Korean War. He was desperated. lol

[sunmoonstargood]

@sunmoonstargood, 1) as for Culture Revolution, it started not by Mao, but by Sun, Zhong Shan'1911 & 54 movt in 1919. It's a long story: during 1900 8 West nations' invasion of China, the west ecountered the Box rebellion, a group of Chinese nationlists who extremely hated anything west. In order to make easy this kind of hatred, the USA started a educational program, suggested by their Christian missories, USA gov used 庚子赔款=the money West demanded China to pay for the invasion,

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood I was borned after mao's death and grew up in the west. One thing I found out is that all politicans lie regardless for their political position. As for the GLF, I don't subscribe to the notion that mao kill millions as to the west imply that he sent his troops to kill all these people in cold blood. I do reconigize that China was saction and there may have be a drought. But attempt to increase steel production with backyard furnace and cont.

[ronnieboy3]

@ronnieboy3 the campaign against pest and rodents contributed to the fall of grain harvest. As for Cultural Revolution, destroying ancient artifacts, manuscripts, and temples that our for-fathers accumulated over thousands of years was inexcusable. These acts was pure incompetence.

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood I have a mixed feeling with the Korean war. China was sanction and her economy by the west. Yet even among us overseas Chinese, it brought us alot of pride to hold off a world's superpower. It negated the notion that Chinese people can't fight. I always would wonder where China would be if the Korean war didn't happen. Frankly I hated both Mao and Jiang for the civil war especially when japan was starting their imperial conquest. Sometime I think Chinese people are so stupid.

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3, Korean War hd to happen, not coz China wanted, but the West needed. They needed the prove that they cld no longer beat up China with military force whenever they wanted to. Mao did the right thing. Mao & Jiang's war were proxy-war between USSR & West; the reason for the fight was not for personal/party power, but a colonialsm & anti-colonialism. Mao decided to totally sided with USSR, he was right on that too; that's why I hated him for breading up with USSR. He was immature. lol

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood Then they were both stupid enough to be played by both sides. Nobody held a gun to their heads. In regards to whether or not Mao did the right to enter the Korean war, I would have to agree with you. MacAurther wanted to march into Beijing. Call me naive, but all these things could have been avoided including the 2nd Sino-japan war if they both consolidated their forces. What Chinese should learn from history is the only ones that benefited our civil war is our enemies.

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3, Actually, they both were united, they built a jointed army, & established a modern army academy Huang-Pu, which produced many famouse generals on both sides. But Jiang broke the unification by killing 90% CCP in1927. It's after that, Mao decided that CCP hd to hv its own army. By 1935, Jiang under the help of Germany advisor, wiped out 100% CCP in cities, & 90% in countrysides. That's why CCP hd its famous Long March. As Mao once said: some conflicts r irreconcilable.Win or die.

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood I'm not surprise that a German would advise Jiang to liquidate the communist. They were shooting them or throwing them into concentration camps in Germany. There was one big difference. Germany was not threaten by an agressive, hostile power looking to conquere new lands. It was as aforementioned. It was very short sighted by Jiang and cutoff and chance for reconciliation. If Jiang though the communist was such a great threat, he should have lock them up a few years. conti.

[ronnieboy3]

@ronnieboy3 The biggest threat to China was militaristic japan. What the country need at the time was unity not division. I think if mao was a real patriot, he should have surrender to Jiang even if it meant his death. Jiang was the only person that had the capacity to fend off japan. It would say the same for Jiang if the situation was reversed. Politics and politicans can change, but once you lose your land from an invader, it is gone forever.

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3, actually, the Germans only offered military advices to Jiang, political advice to exterminate CCP was from GBritian/USA. Sun ZS was supported by USA, however, he thought USSR was a good partner. After his death, US/GB found Jiang wd be the next suitable leader in China; in order for Jiang to be loyal to their commercial interests, US/GB arranged Jiang's marriage to Song, Mei-Ling, a daughter of Christian missionary, & a sister of a financial agent of the International Financiers.

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood For your post, you seem to imply that Jiang would be a puppet for the west. Form a documentary I saw, Jiang neither trusted the soviest or the west. He wanted to play one of the other. I think both jiang and mao wanted the best for China at heart, but neither wanted to compromise their positions. Jiang had the support of the cities while mao the country side. I think Mao was a bit of an extermist in his view and you have to agree that he did cultivate his cult of personality.

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3 u probabely right that both jiang and mao wanted the best for China at heart. However, if u read "The empire of the city" by E. Knuth (u can download for free), all the world hd/hv being controlled by this so-called International Financiers=today they r Wall Street Bankders; then, they were Bank of England & Rothechild families circle. Jiang was totally controlled by them regardless his intention. Mao believed that China cd only be saved by breaking the ties with those bankers.

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood As long as China does not have foreign military in its soil, no bankers can take over China regardless whether if it is mao or jiang that is in controll. If the west try to use its military to force China to concede to the bankers, then China should ally with the soviets. This is want I mean by play one superpower of the other, but avoid getting into a confrontation with any of them. A good leader knows how to use diplomacy to protect this nation against foreign agression.

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3, The fact is, as long as military is a backup force, whether it on China's soil or not doesn't make any difference. In Chinese, it called "Defeat enemy without war不战而区人之兵" or "No war subdue the enemy". The West wd not withdraw its army unless China's army force it out. To hv this kind of force, China hd to side with USSR. Jiang was the 1 who still hd some illusion in hoping somehow he cd out smart the west. He hated communism after he visted USSR, which is understandable.

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood A good example of smart diplomacy was Thailand. It did not have a strong military and both england and france wanted to controll it. But it's king was able play one of the other. And by doing so, it was never colonized.

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3, I'm afraid u don't really understand who China is. China is NOT Thailand.China is too rich, too big & too geo-politically importand to act as Thailand did. Usually, those who can survice extream hostile situation r those r too insignificant, it's not worth it, they r the exceptions.e.g.Switzland, it cd stay nuetral coz its hd nearly nothing + its geo location/high mountains. Its better to hv it as a neutral zone. Japan hd nothing either, so the bankers used it as dog to attack China

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood And the west would not have been so hostile either because they were paranoid with communism. They would have been satisfied with a neutral China. And China would use one superpower as a hedge against the other.

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3, here u start making excuse for the West, as if it's all China's fault-China chose the right ideology; China sided with the wrong 1; China didn't hv smart diplomacy. Hv u read the judgment case of People vs. Hall? As early as 1954, long before China hd communism, California Suprem Ct hd ruled that Chinese was "a race of people whom nature has marked as inferior, and who are incapable of progress or intellectual development beyond a certain point, as their history has shown;" cont.

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3 "differing in language, opinions, color, and physical conformation; between whom and ourselves nature has placed an impassable difference" and as such had no right " to swear away the life of a citizen" or participate" with us in administering the affairs of our Government"--China never wanted 1 inch of land nor 1 oz of gold from US/West, but they were hostile against us from the start. Chinese chose communism was a reaction of this kind of hostility, not the other way around.lol

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood An example of mao extremist view was the Sino-Soviet split. For what I've read as the cause of the split was because of mao was revolted by the soviet leadership decision change their hostile position to one of peaceful co-existence with the west. I think that he wanted to team-up with the soviets in a confrontation with the west. Perhaps as revenge for the exploiting China during the colonial times. That would have turned out very bad for China. cont

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood There is an old saying "If a mouse gets in between a fight between two elaphants, the mouse gets squished". China was very closed to being nuked by the soviets. A good leader does not let his emotions dictate decisions. I think his hatred of the west got the better of him. At that time China was caught between the west and the soviets and it had only few options. Side with the west, side with the soviets, be neutral, or be hostile with both. China ended up with the worst cont.

[ronnieboy3]

@sunmoonstargood China ended up with the worst option. That is hostility with both superpowers. The soviets actual approach the americans to discuss an join nuclear strike on China. Even now the most important foreign policy for China is to prevent the US and Russia gang-up on China. I think we as Chinese were very luck that another devastating war did not fall upon the motherland.

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3 2)to recuit China's young men to study in USA.The purpose of this program was to take control of China's future leaders' mind, making sure they would always sided with USA, therefore, giving USA more ecnomic advantage. USA/west's Christian mentality hs alwasy bntotally denying the value of non-west world's culture. 10 yrs into this program, there was Sun ZS; another 10 yrs later, there was 54 movt, that promoted a total turn to the West, & gradually abolish Chinese culture.(cont.)

[sunmoonstargood]

@ronnieboy3, 3) Many so called New Culture Men came out from this movt, & Mao, was deeply influenced by them, those influences carried him all his life. So, the culture revolution was a route: injection of ideas by the West's Christian missionaries; started by KMT/Sun ZS, and finshed by Mao. Looking back, it's stunning to see, how education can be used as a weapon, to cause a country to kill itself, something a military force can't achieve. Killing without seeing blood & draw little suspicious.

[Easycamper65]

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