Haha the start was hilairious!!! I thought you were going to talk about music or something but no...xD
Well I like to where black sometimes and I don't think Jesus would mind because he looks at what's in our heart and I don't feel black on the inside so that's good :)
Amazing video! I dress alternatively and I have been a Christian for over a decade! I LOVE Jesus Christ and I show people that God loves EVERYONE! some of my favorite Christian goth acts are The Awakening, Rackets & Drapes, Beauty for Ashes etc. Also search of Cruxshadows, and the origin behind their name! Thanks for this!
My sister in law likes Goth, if she had her wish her “quinceañera” (15th birthday party in Mexico) would have been, Goth-night to remember. My brother studies music (he is more a heavy metal guy). They are both Christian. Rock music is accepted at our church, metal not so much but Goth is taboo. So this page is great for both of them. Reconciling all, Goth, music and Christ teachings, it will get some getting used to. Yet, I have shared this site with them. Thank you. (y)
@susellee some people dont understand that goth music is sweet, soft, romantic music. its nothing at all like metal, and its not fast and its not loud. For some reason, the television does not differentiate between subcultures, confusing punk, metal head, grunge, goth and emo.
though I am a half a century old, I absolutely love subcultures. I love to see Christians express themselves. Keeps life exciting. This is a great video.
For those who say you can't dress dark and follow Christ at the same time, you are just being like the legalistic Pharisees of our time. To figure out if one is Christian, just see if they love, follow, and honor Christ. Stop trying to make people conform to your culture, and accept that there are other types of culture/sub-culture with real Christians in them.
I used to be a metal head in my younger days. I never took the satanic gimmickry very seriously. It always seemed tongue-in-cheek. My friends and just liked the loud guitars and and thunderous beat.
Shazoolo, it seems you have hit a topic close to home for many of us. Go to 1 Corinthians 7 and read the old story of 'Electra' to realize that women who cut their hair in Paul's culture tried to gain benevolence from another deity. Women were told to cover their head to cover their shame of claiming to follow God but employing help from other gods.
In conclusion, when you go to church, don't do anything that draw attention to yourself or your the label you wear. God deserves more than that.
Thanx for posting this Shazoolo. It's sad when Christians assume any Goth they meet must be a Satanist ! Like you said, there's plenty of conventionally dressed people or Christians, who are of low character, like the Pharisees that Jesus called hypocrites ! When I was a Goth, some were into the occult and some weren't - it's not automatic,like many folk assume. Either way, whether they're an occultist or not, Jesus stil loves them all anyway. Keep up the good work. Laura :)
caught up in today's fashions, trends etc..only if you really follow the bible-in which I don't care but as a former ordained minister.. yes the bible does teach/mention, laws that women and men is supposedly to follow in how to dress..accordingly...
@oliviaswarden Well technically if you are going into detail there then you are not supposed to wear clothing made of two different material, so a cotton Tshirt an polyester jacket is bad, however unless you follow all those law to the T, then really it should not matter if someone wear goth clothing, as then really if it breaks any rules then you are anyway picking and choosing what to follow.
@Venefica82 You give no basis of argument for backing up what you have said. I provided actual scriptures to prove that the bible does state how one is to dress including styling of hair with jewelry. I really don't care as I am not a christian as I am a goth myself..do I really care-NO. But it is actually you who pick and choose what fits you best. I just merely pointed out to Shazoolo and others that it is dictated in the bible how one is to dress and where to find in the bible.
@oliviaswarden I am merely saying that allot of Christians do not follow what the Bible say about how to dress, as if they did cotton underwear and a silk blouse would be a big no no, as an example, so what makes breaking one law from the Bible worse than breaking another.
Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.--Deuteronomy 22:11 (King James version)
@Venefica82 Now, if you really, really want to get technical.. the old testment as in the old covenant, was abolished by Jesus Christ as he stated he is the new covenant, providing new laws as I have quoted scriptures from the new testment that supposedly we are to follow, as he told his disciples of the new laws. Now, you would have agreed with me on this about the dressing but found it quite odd that you would quote from the old testement that does support what I had stated that it was
@oliviaswarden Actually the ld Testament was never abolished by Jesus:
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.--Matthew 5:18-19
@Venefica82 All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.--Luke 16:17
Also I did not disagree with you on the Bible preaching a dress code. What I said is that since most modern Christians do ignore allot of the laws in the Bible ignoring a few more to be able to be Goth and Christian should not be a problem, unless you are following everything.
@Venefica82 Hebrews Chapter 9 marks the end of the old laws (old covenant) when Jesus Christ died for mankind's sins, making a new covenant, washing away the sins of man, no longer requiring man animal sacraficing, living by old laws in which Christ is the new covenant-without his blood, man would not be forgiven. Each book by the Apostles, letters to the congregations tells of the new laws and covenant, that its no longer needed since He died for mankind.Hebrews Chapter 10-God no longers
@Venefica82 requires man to do sacrifices since one perfect ransom has sanctified for all time. So really all the "vicious Old Testament Laws" you call will be binding forever-why don't we still practice then animal sacrificing for our sins when its no longer required? Hebrew 10: 5-10 explains why..that's why the christian prayer ends through Christ, as he made it possible for man to approach God in prayer as he states he is the way, way to Him.
@Venefica82 mentioned but you contradicted yourself in a way you came off as if laws did not exist nor mentioned in the bible..quite strange way of thinking you would debate me on that..when you just quoted a law in regards to dressing..as I pointed that out to Shazoolo..hmm interesting..LOL oh well, some people think backwards!
@oliviaswarden OOHHH I am so scared-really lady?!!! You are sooo off your rocker...you keep saying I am angry.. far from it...lol..no, stating facts here..don't like what I have to say, the truth, then shut up then..You should not have been very brazen, brash, crass with your first comment to me, you just opened up a can of worms, its all in black in white in what you had written-contradictions, assumptions of others, and you blast others for telling what you are doing?! HYPOCRITE.
@Venefica82 You are sadly mistaken about me if you think that I am christian or part of any religion..I am not. I have studied the bible for many years and was a minister..I don't care if you follow religion, bible, what you wear, smoke, drink, get tattoos, piercings, wear black, polyester, cotton, blah, blah, so trival...but just to point out facts not ideas nor theories. So go ahead, wear what you want to wear-it does not bother me..your life..I don't give a rat's arse
@oliviaswarden What have gotten you so angry? i do not make any assumptions about you as to me you are only a nick on a screen, I do not know you. I made comment to what you had written, that is all. I to have studies the Bible, but i am not Christian, I am Pagan, it seams you are the one that have been making assumptions, about me.
@Venefica82 After reading your channel, you being a hypocrite, accusing me of picking and choosing from the bible (what on earth gave you that idea?!) when you stated you pick and mix whatever fits you. Take a good look in the mirror before pointing the finger at me..You obviously know very little of the bible itself let alone to argue/debate with someone who actually knows it. BTW, there is no law in regarding polyester- it was not invented 2,000 years ago. Go ahead-keep making up stuff.
@oliviaswarden Try to relax, no one is accusing you about anything. Seriously if you get this angry about someone politely disagreeing with you on a online forum perhaps you need to seek counseling. What I am talking about is a passage in Deuteronomy 22:11 which forbids the use of two types of cloth together, which then in modern time would mean for example cotton and polyester. Try to read what others are saying without exploding and you might come off a bit more intelligent.
@Venefica82 Maybe you should take a look at what you said to me in the first place where you did the assuming and adding being rather crass about it and even your last statement which are totally unfounded coming from out of nowhere.. It's not I who need help, its rather you because you are the problem..stop being such a hypocrite..oh no, I am not angry at all.. just setting the facts straight-your trival comments are certainly very entertaining indeed..your comments are totally unfounded and
@oliviaswarden I have read and reread what I wrote in my first message to you to see if I have written anything that could be taken the way you think, however I do not see that I made any assumptions nor that I was crass. I think you need to take a deep breath and re read what I wrote, try to not search for insults where there where none.
@Venefica82 I apparantly I struck a nerve with my reply to Shazoolo's video with you..at least, it bothered you to a point to reply with such contradictions in your own statements as well as what you practice here and on your channel. Just like you said, you pick, mix and choose what you like..many contradictions, being wishy-washy. At least, I know where I stand..firm on the ground..LOL...thanks for the laughs!!
@oliviaswarden You have not struck any nerve with me, though I must admit I am confused over your anger. I however do not act any differently here than anywhere else. Yes I pick and choose because I am an eclectic Pagan, that is allowed in my religion, what do that have to do with discussing another religion that I do not belong to?
@Venefica82 I simply made the comment to Shazoolo and certainly not to you nor did I invite you to it. Good for you that you read the bible..but certainly does not make you an expert on it. I certainly don't read wiccan books and call myself wiccan right off the bat just because I just read them..I find many contradictions being a goth and being a christian at the same time as what goth really stands for and its meanings.. many fellow goths scoffed at those as they were refered to not a real
@oliviaswarden Is that why you are angry, I dared to answer you? Fine your opinions on whatever being Goth is compatible with Christianity differs from mine, that is a bit of the point in having a debate is it not, discussing different opinions. But obviously someone disagreeing with you scares you very much. Oh and as for assumptions, should I now explode on you since you seam to make assumptions that I am Wiccan? If you do not want answers to your posts, why do you post them?
@Venefica82 You got serious mental issues.. really..it was fun chatting with you..you need to get checked..LOL-better you than me...Oh BTW, stop pretending you know about the bible..hehe...thanks for the laughs..really BIG THANK YOU!!
actually the bible does indicate how one is to be dressed, adornments, external braiding of the hair, etc..in the new testiment and old-remember this was created for that culture and time as it is still practiced in other religions-muslim, islam, judism etc. 1 Peter 3:3,5; 1 Ch 16:29, PS 29:2, Pr 14:28, 1 Ti 2:9, 10, as well as the body supposedly be a temple of god as we are made in his image-keeping things that defiles, tattoos, smoking, piercings etc, as well as not getting
I am deeply attracted to cemeteries, gargoyles, churches, ghosts, masonary, Kamelot, tattoes, serpents, vampires, spider's webs, burning candles, insense, twilight, snakes, bats, dripping blood, hoods & cloaks, scorpions, magic, corsets, dragons claws, mermaids, faeries, black roses, angels wings and angels. So long as they are dark angels. Would Jesus come to my place for dinner? Yes, he would come. However, he would come to save and not to support your lifestyle.
How can one be of darkness and light at the same time? What music you listen to and what you choose to focus on will connect you to God or The Devil. You cannot love both. It's not about appearance. It's about the message, the focus and the mindset behind the gothic subculture. Do you think humans invented it? Think again. This is one of Satan's endtime deceptions. It will take many to Hell. Gothic = Demonic. When you are in Christ, you will naturally be repelled by it.
@voyagersystem Being goth is not about darkness, it is about romance, it is about the drama and imagery of the Gothic novella from the 1900 and it is about bringing forth dreams and light by framing them in dark imagery to make it stand out more, before you judge what about actually reading a bit up on what you are talking about.
@Venefica82 You say, "being goth is not about darkness" followed by "bringing forth .. light by framing .. [it] in dark imagery." Exactly. It's about darkness. Why frame life in dark imagery? Are you going to do the same with Jesus? Satan is certainly framed in dark imagery, so you don't need to do it for him. You just need to keep being seduced by him. Gothic is about feeling. Demons rely on this for mind control. Christianity is about faith. Demons cannot touch it. Sleeping Beauty, Wake Up!
@voyagersystem I could try to use allot of time to explain this to you, but what is the point, you are not interested in understanding, you are not interested in knowledge, you call everything you do not understand demonic and judge without having a clue about what you are talking about. If you want to stay ignorant then by all means, I have better things to do with my time.
@Venefica82, I speak from personal experience. Romance and darkness are totally incompatiable with Jesus Christ. What next? Christian psychics? Christian Satanists? Sure. Anything goes. At least in this world. In the next world it is an entirely different story. God's Kingdom or dracula's castle. It's your choice.
@voyagersystem I think God cares allot less what people wear than you do my dear. Also romance is not computable with Jesus? Seriously what Bible have you read?
@Venefica82, as said in my previous comment, it's not about appearance. It's about the mindset and where that comes from and where it leads ... As for Jesus being associated with romance ... it sounds like you may be getting The New Testament mixed up with Romeo and Juilet. Think about this more please ...
@voyagersystem Have you ever read the Bible? For I am thinking you have not. The Bible is full of references to the holiness of love, including love between husband and wife which is romance. Please read the book your religion is based on before you decide to preach. Now as for the goth mindset, you know nothing about it, do you think all Goths think alike? There is not Goth mindset, again you seam to love speaking about things you have no knowledge about.
@Venefica82, 1. Your assumptions regarding me are all incorrect. 2. Christianity is not a religion. 3. We are talking about Jesus being associated with gothic romance. You say, yes. I say, not. Next ...
Have you noticed how gothic imagery is both beautiful, dark and holy? A snare designed to seduce the emotional, damaged and spiritual person. In the gothic world, Satan no longer has to masquerade as a angel of light. Instead, he has imbued entire landscapes with a mystical darkness, which is then mistaken for holiness. And what are you left with when the candelabra finally goes out? Enter this demonic fantasy and you will join the lost and the enchanted. Darkness will become your only light.
@voyagersystem I see no point in this debate as you are fanatical and ignorant and only interested in your own world view, that you have not even studied, so by all means go on with your misconceptions it do not bother me, I only think it is a bit sad to see someone so ignorant, I also think it is very sad that allot of Gothic people are driven away from Christianity because of close minded individuals like you. Thank you for the debate.
@Venefica82, please do not give your power over to other people. You are solely responsible for the choices you make. "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." John 8:12 (KJV) God bless.
Now that is how you promote your faith. Finally! You have finally promoted your faith and beliefs without tearing down or misrepresenting other people, groups, or other faiths. I have finally given one of your videos a thumbs up and it is well deserved.
according to biblical text, nothing in this world is good. So religious christians need to give up their "goodness" act. good only comes from spirit. not from flesh. The only difference between a christian goth and a suit and tie christian is the fact that the goth is not trying to hide the darkness which is in our flesh. we are all dark creatures.
those caught in the 1950 traditionalism time warp as you mentioned are actually worldly according to Mark Driscoll (check his video on 1950's traditionalism)... i agree with you... I would say that the Bible would tell us not to be a distraction for the worship of others hearts... it's actually legalism if you "have" to dress in a traditional sense in order to come to church or meet with Jesus... and Paul would have a field day with such ppl... and I'd pay to watch that match...
@shine777 I agree. In reading these comments that assert people of alternative appearance are embracing the world and therefore denying God, I kept thinking about how worldly a perspective that is. Putting God in a box, you know? Quoting scripture for the purpose of shaping the world into your own image is one of the surest routes to hell.
@traicetrak well... being worldly in that sense doesn't send you to hell... it only makes you a target for Christian mockery... meaning, if you go that route of being legalistic and taking yourself too seriously and Jesus not serious enough, Biblically, you are to be made fun of and laughed at... in the sense that the mockery leads you to repentence... and shows others how dumb and foolish the legalist is...
pt.3As someone who was in the culture and saw how everyone had to be tatted,pierced &dressed a certain way to be accepted (like John Hall so aptly parodied in King Missile's song, It's Saturday, "I want to be different, like everybody else I want to be like. I want to be just like all the different people."), I have noted that the world measures its individuality by outward appearance. As Christians,our difference should be measured by what's in our hearts. That's how I understand the Scripture
pt.2Each should examine their own heart. You say as long as their appearance is not deliberately offensive- I agree.
But let's be real here. All those supposedly "Christian" rock bands pictured are maybe not offensive,but they ARE quite clearly trying to live with one foot on the word &one in the world-- the world ALWAYS wins out in the life of the divided. Compromised "Christianity" is NO Christianity at all (Rev.3:16).This attitude is what gave rise to the Emergent church/Joel's Army apostacy
pt.1What is in ones heart cannot help but be reflected in outward appearance. I understand what you are getting at Shaz, to judge someone and deride them over appearance is wrong.But when Christ comes in your heart, you find yourself voluntarily switching from darkness to light. My favorite groups prior to Christ were bands like Ministry, Tool and Type O Negative. I wore clothing that reflected this subculture. I make a conscious decision to dress "respectfully" now as an ambassador for Christ.
On the one hand, I'm happy to see ANYONE work even just a LITTLE Jesus into his life. A little Jesus goes a long way, and can lead to acquiring more and more of Him.
On the other hand, we can't have Jesus on our own self-serving terms. Jesus is no ones fool, although one might be quite a fool for himself.
I'm a christian "goth" (if you will) and what i wear doesnt bring me further from or closer to how much Jesus and myself love each other. it's all about whats in your heart
The problem with Christian Goth while many may profess to be Christians the problem is the dark nature of Goth and Goth seems to have an appearance of evil due to its dark nature and sometimes Christian Goths will fellowship with satanic Goths so the bottom line is don't have an appearance of evil. 1 Thess 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
@yankobutt i got what you is saying but i think personaly love being a gothic christian i see the different in what you are saying but hear this some people worship in different ways as you can see even in music you have heavy christstian bands and also gospel and rap and also we have different
@happybunney112 and churches and group christians of all world but they still have somthing in commen they worship got and only him yes i see your pont be remeber dont read a book by it clover and people just have different way to see in his eyes does not mean we going to hurt christians in anyway
@happybunney112 I see what your saying my wish for you as a goth Christian that you can avoid the dark images and avoid listening to satanic goth metal bands some Christian goths not all end up compromising and listen to both kinds of music and that can be a problem in your spiritual walk or being able to grow spiritually.
@MustardSeedish For sure. Then again, the Holy Spirit is no ones fool. He'll tell us in each individual case what is really going on. Whether the judgment is positive or negative, it's wrong if we're judging in Self.
I was always confused when you called yourself an ex-goth, which I guess you still are. Just the way you said it in yoiur profile info made it seem like you were against being goth for some reason.I knew it wasn't impossible for these alt lifestyles to be Christian.
A good example of a Christian hard rock band is RED. The guys in it have impacted my faith life more than I can fit in one comment. Their message is clear in each song, and they're able to reach audiences that otherwise would not listen.
As far as Christian rock goes-there is no such thing-the Bible says make a joyful noise unto the Lord not headbanging and play electric guitar to your hearts content
Being a Christian does, in many ways, determine how you dress and what music you listen to. 1 Timothy, 1 Corinthians, & 1 Peter all contains instructions in reference to dress
@James29440 I think many of those are concerned with if one is dressing in a way that could tempt sexually? Not sure, would have to have a look at them properly.
@Shazoolo Paul, in Ephesians, says, “Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma. But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks
i think there is more Christian Goth then satanist goth i'm a satanist goth but i have friends that are Christian Goth we get on religion never really bring it up i love them for them and they love me for me :) i like you \m/ :)
Haha the start was hilairious!!! I thought you were going to talk about music or something but no...xD
Well I like to where black sometimes and I don't think Jesus would mind because he looks at what's in our heart and I don't feel black on the inside so that's good :)
piaybackjunkie17 1 week ago
Comment removed
lpdude72 2 weeks ago in playlist More videos from Shazoolo
Amazing video! I dress alternatively and I have been a Christian for over a decade! I LOVE Jesus Christ and I show people that God loves EVERYONE! some of my favorite Christian goth acts are The Awakening, Rackets & Drapes, Beauty for Ashes etc. Also search of Cruxshadows, and the origin behind their name! Thanks for this!
MartyredxMaiden 3 weeks ago
Amen to that!
AmongWolvesFilms 3 weeks ago
My sister in law likes Goth, if she had her wish her “quinceañera” (15th birthday party in Mexico) would have been, Goth-night to remember. My brother studies music (he is more a heavy metal guy). They are both Christian. Rock music is accepted at our church, metal not so much but Goth is taboo. So this page is great for both of them. Reconciling all, Goth, music and Christ teachings, it will get some getting used to. Yet, I have shared this site with them. Thank you. (y)
susellee 1 month ago
@susellee some people dont understand that goth music is sweet, soft, romantic music. its nothing at all like metal, and its not fast and its not loud. For some reason, the television does not differentiate between subcultures, confusing punk, metal head, grunge, goth and emo.
MartyredxMaiden 3 weeks ago
I am a gothic christian and alway be one
happybunney112 1 month ago
i am a Christian Goth!
PrinceRavensword 1 month ago
God sure does have a distinctness man! Go play idiot somewhere else...Diabolical indeed u is...
Theshemproductions 2 months ago
But why would Holiness look like Goth?
Theshemproductions 2 months ago
@Theshemproductions Holiness does not have a set appearance. That's like asking, "why would Satan make himself look like he is holy, to others?"
MetalShado 2 months ago
though I am a half a century old, I absolutely love subcultures. I love to see Christians express themselves. Keeps life exciting. This is a great video.
ATrueBelieverInGod 3 months ago
Amen broo God bless youu!
TheGhanaQueen 3 months ago
There are many great Christian artists out there. Red and Skillet are pretty heavy, yet they are devout Christians.
ZanimaDeepkoreX 5 months ago
For those who say you can't dress dark and follow Christ at the same time, you are just being like the legalistic Pharisees of our time. To figure out if one is Christian, just see if they love, follow, and honor Christ. Stop trying to make people conform to your culture, and accept that there are other types of culture/sub-culture with real Christians in them.
MetalShado 5 months ago
I used to be a metal head in my younger days. I never took the satanic gimmickry very seriously. It always seemed tongue-in-cheek. My friends and just liked the loud guitars and and thunderous beat.
KnightOwl2006 5 months ago
@KnightOwl2006 That pretty much hits the nail on the head when it comes to objecting to the fundies who hate rock music and gothism.
1966Daywalker 3 months ago
@1966Daywalker Yes, but I see their point that it has a negative influence.
KnightOwl2006 3 months ago
Thank you man I'm Blessed
You just nailed the point Bro.
May god Bless you with more Wisdom.
thank you for Posting this
God bless!!!
testdriver165 5 months ago
I'm glad this is back! I shared this with a young friend of mine who's having trouble balancing his faith and his style. (I'm a Christian Goth, too!)
juhfreak 6 months ago
Shazoolo, it seems you have hit a topic close to home for many of us. Go to 1 Corinthians 7 and read the old story of 'Electra' to realize that women who cut their hair in Paul's culture tried to gain benevolence from another deity. Women were told to cover their head to cover their shame of claiming to follow God but employing help from other gods.
In conclusion, when you go to church, don't do anything that draw attention to yourself or your the label you wear. God deserves more than that.
allfornot 6 months ago
Thanx for posting this Shazoolo. It's sad when Christians assume any Goth they meet must be a Satanist ! Like you said, there's plenty of conventionally dressed people or Christians, who are of low character, like the Pharisees that Jesus called hypocrites ! When I was a Goth, some were into the occult and some weren't - it's not automatic,like many folk assume. Either way, whether they're an occultist or not, Jesus stil loves them all anyway. Keep up the good work. Laura :)
LauraMaxwellExSpirit 6 months ago
caught up in today's fashions, trends etc..only if you really follow the bible-in which I don't care but as a former ordained minister.. yes the bible does teach/mention, laws that women and men is supposedly to follow in how to dress..accordingly...
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
@oliviaswarden Well technically if you are going into detail there then you are not supposed to wear clothing made of two different material, so a cotton Tshirt an polyester jacket is bad, however unless you follow all those law to the T, then really it should not matter if someone wear goth clothing, as then really if it breaks any rules then you are anyway picking and choosing what to follow.
Venefica82 6 months ago
@Venefica82 You give no basis of argument for backing up what you have said. I provided actual scriptures to prove that the bible does state how one is to dress including styling of hair with jewelry. I really don't care as I am not a christian as I am a goth myself..do I really care-NO. But it is actually you who pick and choose what fits you best. I just merely pointed out to Shazoolo and others that it is dictated in the bible how one is to dress and where to find in the bible.
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
@oliviaswarden I am merely saying that allot of Christians do not follow what the Bible say about how to dress, as if they did cotton underwear and a silk blouse would be a big no no, as an example, so what makes breaking one law from the Bible worse than breaking another.
Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.--Deuteronomy 22:11 (King James version)
Venefica82 6 months ago
@Venefica82 Now, if you really, really want to get technical.. the old testment as in the old covenant, was abolished by Jesus Christ as he stated he is the new covenant, providing new laws as I have quoted scriptures from the new testment that supposedly we are to follow, as he told his disciples of the new laws. Now, you would have agreed with me on this about the dressing but found it quite odd that you would quote from the old testement that does support what I had stated that it was
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
@oliviaswarden Actually the ld Testament was never abolished by Jesus:
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.--Matthew 5:18-19
Venefica82 6 months ago
@Venefica82 All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.--Luke 16:17
Also I did not disagree with you on the Bible preaching a dress code. What I said is that since most modern Christians do ignore allot of the laws in the Bible ignoring a few more to be able to be Goth and Christian should not be a problem, unless you are following everything.
Venefica82 6 months ago
@Venefica82 Hebrews Chapter 9 marks the end of the old laws (old covenant) when Jesus Christ died for mankind's sins, making a new covenant, washing away the sins of man, no longer requiring man animal sacraficing, living by old laws in which Christ is the new covenant-without his blood, man would not be forgiven. Each book by the Apostles, letters to the congregations tells of the new laws and covenant, that its no longer needed since He died for mankind.Hebrews Chapter 10-God no longers
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
@Venefica82 requires man to do sacrifices since one perfect ransom has sanctified for all time. So really all the "vicious Old Testament Laws" you call will be binding forever-why don't we still practice then animal sacrificing for our sins when its no longer required? Hebrew 10: 5-10 explains why..that's why the christian prayer ends through Christ, as he made it possible for man to approach God in prayer as he states he is the way, way to Him.
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
@Venefica82 mentioned but you contradicted yourself in a way you came off as if laws did not exist nor mentioned in the bible..quite strange way of thinking you would debate me on that..when you just quoted a law in regards to dressing..as I pointed that out to Shazoolo..hmm interesting..LOL oh well, some people think backwards!
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
@oliviaswarden OOHHH I am so scared-really lady?!!! You are sooo off your rocker...you keep saying I am angry.. far from it...lol..no, stating facts here..don't like what I have to say, the truth, then shut up then..You should not have been very brazen, brash, crass with your first comment to me, you just opened up a can of worms, its all in black in white in what you had written-contradictions, assumptions of others, and you blast others for telling what you are doing?! HYPOCRITE.
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
@Venefica82 You are sadly mistaken about me if you think that I am christian or part of any religion..I am not. I have studied the bible for many years and was a minister..I don't care if you follow religion, bible, what you wear, smoke, drink, get tattoos, piercings, wear black, polyester, cotton, blah, blah, so trival...but just to point out facts not ideas nor theories. So go ahead, wear what you want to wear-it does not bother me..your life..I don't give a rat's arse
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
@oliviaswarden What have gotten you so angry? i do not make any assumptions about you as to me you are only a nick on a screen, I do not know you. I made comment to what you had written, that is all. I to have studies the Bible, but i am not Christian, I am Pagan, it seams you are the one that have been making assumptions, about me.
Venefica82 6 months ago
@Venefica82 After reading your channel, you being a hypocrite, accusing me of picking and choosing from the bible (what on earth gave you that idea?!) when you stated you pick and mix whatever fits you. Take a good look in the mirror before pointing the finger at me..You obviously know very little of the bible itself let alone to argue/debate with someone who actually knows it. BTW, there is no law in regarding polyester- it was not invented 2,000 years ago. Go ahead-keep making up stuff.
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
@oliviaswarden Try to relax, no one is accusing you about anything. Seriously if you get this angry about someone politely disagreeing with you on a online forum perhaps you need to seek counseling. What I am talking about is a passage in Deuteronomy 22:11 which forbids the use of two types of cloth together, which then in modern time would mean for example cotton and polyester. Try to read what others are saying without exploding and you might come off a bit more intelligent.
Venefica82 6 months ago
@Venefica82 Maybe you should take a look at what you said to me in the first place where you did the assuming and adding being rather crass about it and even your last statement which are totally unfounded coming from out of nowhere.. It's not I who need help, its rather you because you are the problem..stop being such a hypocrite..oh no, I am not angry at all.. just setting the facts straight-your trival comments are certainly very entertaining indeed..your comments are totally unfounded and
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
@oliviaswarden I have read and reread what I wrote in my first message to you to see if I have written anything that could be taken the way you think, however I do not see that I made any assumptions nor that I was crass. I think you need to take a deep breath and re read what I wrote, try to not search for insults where there where none.
Venefica82 6 months ago
you are definitely off your rocker!!
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
@Venefica82 I apparantly I struck a nerve with my reply to Shazoolo's video with you..at least, it bothered you to a point to reply with such contradictions in your own statements as well as what you practice here and on your channel. Just like you said, you pick, mix and choose what you like..many contradictions, being wishy-washy. At least, I know where I stand..firm on the ground..LOL...thanks for the laughs!!
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
@oliviaswarden You have not struck any nerve with me, though I must admit I am confused over your anger. I however do not act any differently here than anywhere else. Yes I pick and choose because I am an eclectic Pagan, that is allowed in my religion, what do that have to do with discussing another religion that I do not belong to?
Venefica82 6 months ago
@Venefica82 I simply made the comment to Shazoolo and certainly not to you nor did I invite you to it. Good for you that you read the bible..but certainly does not make you an expert on it. I certainly don't read wiccan books and call myself wiccan right off the bat just because I just read them..I find many contradictions being a goth and being a christian at the same time as what goth really stands for and its meanings.. many fellow goths scoffed at those as they were refered to not a real
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
@oliviaswarden Is that why you are angry, I dared to answer you? Fine your opinions on whatever being Goth is compatible with Christianity differs from mine, that is a bit of the point in having a debate is it not, discussing different opinions. But obviously someone disagreeing with you scares you very much. Oh and as for assumptions, should I now explode on you since you seam to make assumptions that I am Wiccan? If you do not want answers to your posts, why do you post them?
Venefica82 6 months ago
@Venefica82 goth but a poser..someone who walks the fence just to apease family/friends who are not goths..that's how we view them..
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
@Venefica82 You got serious mental issues.. really..it was fun chatting with you..you need to get checked..LOL-better you than me...Oh BTW, stop pretending you know about the bible..hehe...thanks for the laughs..really BIG THANK YOU!!
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
actually the bible does indicate how one is to be dressed, adornments, external braiding of the hair, etc..in the new testiment and old-remember this was created for that culture and time as it is still practiced in other religions-muslim, islam, judism etc. 1 Peter 3:3,5; 1 Ch 16:29, PS 29:2, Pr 14:28, 1 Ti 2:9, 10, as well as the body supposedly be a temple of god as we are made in his image-keeping things that defiles, tattoos, smoking, piercings etc, as well as not getting
oliviaswarden 6 months ago
I am deeply attracted to cemeteries, gargoyles, churches, ghosts, masonary, Kamelot, tattoes, serpents, vampires, spider's webs, burning candles, insense, twilight, snakes, bats, dripping blood, hoods & cloaks, scorpions, magic, corsets, dragons claws, mermaids, faeries, black roses, angels wings and angels. So long as they are dark angels. Would Jesus come to my place for dinner? Yes, he would come. However, he would come to save and not to support your lifestyle.
voyagersystem 6 months ago
How can one be of darkness and light at the same time? What music you listen to and what you choose to focus on will connect you to God or The Devil. You cannot love both. It's not about appearance. It's about the message, the focus and the mindset behind the gothic subculture. Do you think humans invented it? Think again. This is one of Satan's endtime deceptions. It will take many to Hell. Gothic = Demonic. When you are in Christ, you will naturally be repelled by it.
voyagersystem 6 months ago
@voyagersystem Being goth is not about darkness, it is about romance, it is about the drama and imagery of the Gothic novella from the 1900 and it is about bringing forth dreams and light by framing them in dark imagery to make it stand out more, before you judge what about actually reading a bit up on what you are talking about.
Venefica82 6 months ago
Comment removed
voyagersystem 6 months ago
@Venefica82 You say, "being goth is not about darkness" followed by "bringing forth .. light by framing .. [it] in dark imagery." Exactly. It's about darkness. Why frame life in dark imagery? Are you going to do the same with Jesus? Satan is certainly framed in dark imagery, so you don't need to do it for him. You just need to keep being seduced by him. Gothic is about feeling. Demons rely on this for mind control. Christianity is about faith. Demons cannot touch it. Sleeping Beauty, Wake Up!
voyagersystem 6 months ago
@voyagersystem I could try to use allot of time to explain this to you, but what is the point, you are not interested in understanding, you are not interested in knowledge, you call everything you do not understand demonic and judge without having a clue about what you are talking about. If you want to stay ignorant then by all means, I have better things to do with my time.
Venefica82 6 months ago
@Venefica82, I speak from personal experience. Romance and darkness are totally incompatiable with Jesus Christ. What next? Christian psychics? Christian Satanists? Sure. Anything goes. At least in this world. In the next world it is an entirely different story. God's Kingdom or dracula's castle. It's your choice.
voyagersystem 6 months ago
@voyagersystem I think God cares allot less what people wear than you do my dear. Also romance is not computable with Jesus? Seriously what Bible have you read?
Venefica82 6 months ago
@Venefica82, as said in my previous comment, it's not about appearance. It's about the mindset and where that comes from and where it leads ... As for Jesus being associated with romance ... it sounds like you may be getting The New Testament mixed up with Romeo and Juilet. Think about this more please ...
voyagersystem 6 months ago
@voyagersystem Have you ever read the Bible? For I am thinking you have not. The Bible is full of references to the holiness of love, including love between husband and wife which is romance. Please read the book your religion is based on before you decide to preach. Now as for the goth mindset, you know nothing about it, do you think all Goths think alike? There is not Goth mindset, again you seam to love speaking about things you have no knowledge about.
Venefica82 6 months ago
@Venefica82, 1. Your assumptions regarding me are all incorrect. 2. Christianity is not a religion. 3. We are talking about Jesus being associated with gothic romance. You say, yes. I say, not. Next ...
voyagersystem 6 months ago
@voyagersystem Excuse me, Christianity is not a religion? Seriously what planet are you from. Christianity is one of the world's biggest religions.
Venefica82 6 months ago
Have you noticed how gothic imagery is both beautiful, dark and holy? A snare designed to seduce the emotional, damaged and spiritual person. In the gothic world, Satan no longer has to masquerade as a angel of light. Instead, he has imbued entire landscapes with a mystical darkness, which is then mistaken for holiness. And what are you left with when the candelabra finally goes out? Enter this demonic fantasy and you will join the lost and the enchanted. Darkness will become your only light.
voyagersystem 6 months ago
@voyagersystem I see no point in this debate as you are fanatical and ignorant and only interested in your own world view, that you have not even studied, so by all means go on with your misconceptions it do not bother me, I only think it is a bit sad to see someone so ignorant, I also think it is very sad that allot of Gothic people are driven away from Christianity because of close minded individuals like you. Thank you for the debate.
Venefica82 6 months ago
@Venefica82, please do not give your power over to other people. You are solely responsible for the choices you make. "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." John 8:12 (KJV) God bless.
voyagersystem 6 months ago
Now that is how you promote your faith. Finally! You have finally promoted your faith and beliefs without tearing down or misrepresenting other people, groups, or other faiths. I have finally given one of your videos a thumbs up and it is well deserved.
Mysticblue1212 6 months ago
@Mysticblue1212 Yep I agree with you
rainbowpagan2 6 months ago
according to biblical text, nothing in this world is good. So religious christians need to give up their "goodness" act. good only comes from spirit. not from flesh. The only difference between a christian goth and a suit and tie christian is the fact that the goth is not trying to hide the darkness which is in our flesh. we are all dark creatures.
embracedbyfrost 6 months ago
as Satan comes disguised as light. God can and does come disguised as darkness.
embracedbyfrost 6 months ago
those caught in the 1950 traditionalism time warp as you mentioned are actually worldly according to Mark Driscoll (check his video on 1950's traditionalism)... i agree with you... I would say that the Bible would tell us not to be a distraction for the worship of others hearts... it's actually legalism if you "have" to dress in a traditional sense in order to come to church or meet with Jesus... and Paul would have a field day with such ppl... and I'd pay to watch that match...
shine777 6 months ago
@shine777 I agree. In reading these comments that assert people of alternative appearance are embracing the world and therefore denying God, I kept thinking about how worldly a perspective that is. Putting God in a box, you know? Quoting scripture for the purpose of shaping the world into your own image is one of the surest routes to hell.
traicetrak 6 months ago
@traicetrak well... being worldly in that sense doesn't send you to hell... it only makes you a target for Christian mockery... meaning, if you go that route of being legalistic and taking yourself too seriously and Jesus not serious enough, Biblically, you are to be made fun of and laughed at... in the sense that the mockery leads you to repentence... and shows others how dumb and foolish the legalist is...
shine777 6 months ago
Hmmmm
Me?
1) Long Hair.
2) Doesn't give a shit.
3) Bum fluff on my chin. (lol)
4) Baggy 3-quarters
4) Normal T-Shirt
5) SlipKnoT hoodie.
6) Dimmu Borgir hat.
The old folk round here would start cursing at me, and I shall let them know what I think of them. :D
Nameless666Maggot 6 months ago
Katelling 1
EXCELLENT!!! If our hearts are not right with God we are not sheep we are wolves in sheep's clothing .
katelling1 6 months ago
Well, I'm a Catholic heavy metal guy. Does that count?
Lawborn2 6 months ago
pt.3As someone who was in the culture and saw how everyone had to be tatted,pierced &dressed a certain way to be accepted (like John Hall so aptly parodied in King Missile's song, It's Saturday, "I want to be different, like everybody else I want to be like. I want to be just like all the different people."), I have noted that the world measures its individuality by outward appearance. As Christians,our difference should be measured by what's in our hearts. That's how I understand the Scripture
salmagnum 6 months ago
pt.2Each should examine their own heart. You say as long as their appearance is not deliberately offensive- I agree.
But let's be real here. All those supposedly "Christian" rock bands pictured are maybe not offensive,but they ARE quite clearly trying to live with one foot on the word &one in the world-- the world ALWAYS wins out in the life of the divided. Compromised "Christianity" is NO Christianity at all (Rev.3:16).This attitude is what gave rise to the Emergent church/Joel's Army apostacy
salmagnum 6 months ago
pt.1What is in ones heart cannot help but be reflected in outward appearance. I understand what you are getting at Shaz, to judge someone and deride them over appearance is wrong.But when Christ comes in your heart, you find yourself voluntarily switching from darkness to light. My favorite groups prior to Christ were bands like Ministry, Tool and Type O Negative. I wore clothing that reflected this subculture. I make a conscious decision to dress "respectfully" now as an ambassador for Christ.
salmagnum 6 months ago
On the one hand, I'm happy to see ANYONE work even just a LITTLE Jesus into his life. A little Jesus goes a long way, and can lead to acquiring more and more of Him.
On the other hand, we can't have Jesus on our own self-serving terms. Jesus is no ones fool, although one might be quite a fool for himself.
MyFriendLeonard1 6 months ago
Huh. Interesting couple of videos you've made recently!
Sir4sissors 6 months ago
I'm a christian "goth" (if you will) and what i wear doesnt bring me further from or closer to how much Jesus and myself love each other. it's all about whats in your heart
poopoopaula101 6 months ago
hmmm
goldifoxxx1 6 months ago
lol satanists 'friends' with christians?
goldifoxxx1 6 months ago
Excellent points.
fruitofspirit 6 months ago
The problem with Christian Goth while many may profess to be Christians the problem is the dark nature of Goth and Goth seems to have an appearance of evil due to its dark nature and sometimes Christian Goths will fellowship with satanic Goths so the bottom line is don't have an appearance of evil. 1 Thess 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
yankobutt 6 months ago
@yankobutt I agree. These kids are confused fence-sitters in need of our compassion - along with some stern counsel - as the Holy Spirit directs.
MyFriendLeonard1 6 months ago
@yankobutt i got what you is saying but i think personaly love being a gothic christian i see the different in what you are saying but hear this some people worship in different ways as you can see even in music you have heavy christstian bands and also gospel and rap and also we have different
happybunney112 1 month ago
@happybunney112 and churches and group christians of all world but they still have somthing in commen they worship got and only him yes i see your pont be remeber dont read a book by it clover and people just have different way to see in his eyes does not mean we going to hurt christians in anyway
happybunney112 1 month ago
Comment removed
yankobutt 1 month ago
@happybunney112 I see what your saying my wish for you as a goth Christian that you can avoid the dark images and avoid listening to satanic goth metal bands some Christian goths not all end up compromising and listen to both kinds of music and that can be a problem in your spiritual walk or being able to grow spiritually.
yankobutt 1 month ago
Some of the sweetest, real, kindest Christians have been goths. I have to wonder if God throws us a curve ball to expose the Pharisees.
MustardSeedish 6 months ago
@MustardSeedish For sure. Then again, the Holy Spirit is no ones fool. He'll tell us in each individual case what is really going on. Whether the judgment is positive or negative, it's wrong if we're judging in Self.
MyFriendLeonard1 6 months ago
Amen...this is the wisdom of the Kingdom of God and God's love is rich. Great vid.
jamlimited3 6 months ago
I was always confused when you called yourself an ex-goth, which I guess you still are. Just the way you said it in yoiur profile info made it seem like you were against being goth for some reason.I knew it wasn't impossible for these alt lifestyles to be Christian.
somerandompagan 6 months ago
A good example of a Christian hard rock band is RED. The guys in it have impacted my faith life more than I can fit in one comment. Their message is clear in each song, and they're able to reach audiences that otherwise would not listen.
sirjeranreturns 6 months ago
As far as Christian rock goes-there is no such thing-the Bible says make a joyful noise unto the Lord not headbanging and play electric guitar to your hearts content
James29440 6 months ago
Being a Christian does, in many ways, determine how you dress and what music you listen to. 1 Timothy, 1 Corinthians, & 1 Peter all contains instructions in reference to dress
James29440 6 months ago 2
@James29440 I think many of those are concerned with if one is dressing in a way that could tempt sexually? Not sure, would have to have a look at them properly.
Shazoolo 6 months ago 3
@Shazoolo Paul, in Ephesians, says, “Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma. But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks
James29440 6 months ago
What is the song you started playing at the end? It sounds interesting.
phillippi2 6 months ago
i think there is more Christian Goth then satanist goth i'm a satanist goth but i have friends that are Christian Goth we get on religion never really bring it up i love them for them and they love me for me :) i like you \m/ :)
antichristeileen 6 months ago 2
@antichristeileen Thank you. Do you ever listen to Saviour Machine, or Demon Hunter? If you haven't listened to them I would highly recommend.
Shazoolo 6 months ago 3
@Shazoolo i love Demon Hunter but i'm more of a marilyn manson/alice cooper girl ;)
antichristeileen 6 months ago
I really like your channel and your videos :)
ashekist1 6 months ago