Car Sales Training - The Classic 4 Square Presentation

[1pokerknight]

cool video man

[64Albere]

@@@ YouTube user SellCars... Not to long ago; I wrote a comment on this video and you channel stated that comment pedning approval so " did you get the comment OR if it didn,t meet your approval >> I am sorry for that. Here is a new question : In your expert opinion, Do you think its still possible to make great career in selling cars in today,s challenging economy ?  Respectfully Yours YouTube user 64Albere

[brklynsfinest27]

@sellcars Do you have a video on how you pencil a 4 square in the present.

[gumbie1999]

Joe Verde you are not sir!



[sellscars]

@gumbie1999 Did you not see the annotations or read any of the comments? Joe Verde was a failure in the one dealership he owned. Opened and closed in a very short time.

This video is a condemnation of the 4 square process and not an attempt to teach the proper techniques.

[molafaka808]

Thanks a lot because I'm having trouble at work. Gonna watch 3 more times

[redloks5]

OK hold back 20% on trade,full list,20% down. The wod track is this, " For our car less your car + fees ( lift pen to eye level they will follow) and by the way we're gonna payoff you're old car in full, with only 6 down you're at 9 a month, just put you're OK right here and we'll get your new car cleaned for you ( hand them the pen and shut up!) That's not enough for my trade. " I understand how you feel, we wholesale 1200 + cars a year rarely are we off by $200 let alone 5 or 6.

[sellscars]

@redloks5 That's not enough for my trade "never is, is it?" no "then where did you want to be down and monthly?"

The idea is to take away the confrontation, justify why the price is what it is. Keep the emotion centered around the car and out of the negotiations. No stick 'em on the ceiling and then peel them off.

[sellwithnate]

Thanks for sharing with the sales community!

[jpapa4]

Steve how do you pecnil a deal today?

[jsteverichards]

I get it now! I humbly retract my previous comments. And yes, I do owe you an apology, I apologize. I must have been out of my ADHD medicine; I didn't watch the entire video; now I have. Better late than never...

[sellscars]

@jsteverichards Thank you Steve, apology accepted.

[mjpitche]

They always wanted to leave when I did this. How do you keep them in their seats so they are willing to negotiate?

[sellscars]

@mjpitche Don't use a 4 square to begin with. The Shopper Stopper sales presentation and process increases volume, gross and CSI.

A survey of auto sales people asked what was the least favorite part of their job and nearly all respondents answered it was the price negotiation with the customer.

[nexicon1]

As a GSM of major brand dealers in Vancouver, if my sales people presented the 4 square that weak I'd can them. Just the presentation you offer is slimey. No wonder people don't like it. Where is your word tracks? What are you trying to do here? Crazy! The car business is a good business. It's just not a business for you. I think the car business should try it without you for awhile, if it doesn't work we'll call you.

[sellscars]

@nexicon1 Apparently you can't read or see the point of the video at all. It is a criticism of the process. It says that in the description and is clear from my words and annotations on the video.

By the way I have been the Corporate GSM of 4 "major" brand stores (top 3 in the world) simultaneously and the GM of 2 stores selling top 3 brands simultaneously. I've lead stores to winning Presidents awards and maintained the highest of CSI scores.

My clients all over the US and in Canada have

[sellscars]

@sellscars realized millions of additional profits from consultations with my company.

View my "let the customer pour" video if you want to get an idea of my philosophy. Then check my "I'm just looking" video if you want a powerful word track.

14,000 cars per year at over $3,500 gross average is my record. What's yours superman?

[dnohl75]

I'm so glad I'm not a car salesman anymore. Money was awesome, but you work 2 hours a day 6 days a week and the senior car salesmen are just waiting to make a buck off you by sweeping in and taking half your deal. There was times when I had a person with awesome credit, ready to buy the car and a veteran car saleman would step in and say that I needed help. They would take control without asking me and the managers didn't give a crap because they were getting their sale.

[prestivo]

This is the most horrible presentation of the four square I have ever seen,.... The word track is horrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!

[sellscars]

@prestivo It's supposed to be. It says in the description it is a criticism (big word some people don't understand) and annotations make it clear it is a condemnation (another big word some don't know the meaning of).

[EMERALDEMMY]

We use the 4square because these four numbers have to be agreed upon or you dont have a deal. And we dont use rediculous insulting impossible starting points. Most customers can do basic math. A few need hard truth that they cant afford the top of the line. And if they do owe 12000 on a car worth 5000, really, then they better have big money down. The bank is going to base its approval or DECLINE on these numbers and a credit score. I believe the more the customer knows the better my chances.

[mjpitche]

@EMERALDEMMY Almost every customer I met wanted to pay 250 per month with 0 down for five years and were usually around 5k upsidedown in their current Dodge Caravan. They would try to buy SUVs that ran 30k. I never understood why people always did this but it was frustrating.

[StantheMan57]

Well like you said.. "Watch the video all the way through" I hate the four square! I live in a small town and especially hate it when a sales manager would want me to try to pull that crap on my friends! I would refuse, and so I am unemployed right now LOL. Great video.

[flpete]

like i said 2 months ago. if this salesman started the box theory, id leave. even if it honest numbers, its percieved as a dishonest way to sell cars.

[sellscars]

@flpete Have you watched it all the way through? I state in the video that when we do this the customer perceives us as the bad guy, because we are the bad guy if we're working deals this way.

That's the whole point, they will leave and it is dishonest.

[flpete]

@sellscars hi yes i did. oh ok anyways want to wish you good luck. no hard feelings

[sellscars]

@flpete Never had any hard feelings. Many people watch only part of the video and make a decision without hearing it all. We often make the same mistake with our customers.

[hott99cav]

sorry, but ive been selling cars for 10 years now.. have been using the 4 square on every deal and it is a nice presentation tool if used properly. unfortunately this 4 square of yours seems very outdated.. no war zone and weak word tracks.. sorry..

[sellscars]

@hott99cav That's exactly the point of the video, that it is outdated and weak.

[flpete]

this is a outdate silly bingo game that smart customers do not like. why teach an old habit. if a salesman started this 4 square, id walk out

[sellscars]

@flpete Maybe you should watch the entire video. If you watch more than just a little you'll see I'm not advocating/teaching the use of the 4 square, in fact I'm condeming it's use. Spend a few minutes to listen to the words and see the annotations before posting when you appear to be ignorant of the content of the video as a whole.

[flpete]

@sellscars i apologize then . your right i hadnt watched the entire video

[sellscars]

@flpete Apology accepted.

[sellscars]

@flpete Watch the whole thing and you'll see I'm condemning the technique.

[jsteverichards]

You couldn't be more wrong my friend; an adversarial presentation has NOTHING to do with the format the numbers are in. The "4-square" is nothing more than the format; your presentation example is 30 years old. You teach sales people to lie; the reason car sales people have such a bad reputation is not because of who they are, but because of guys like you. And there are a lot of your type out there.

[sellscars]

@jsteverichards Maybe you should watch the entire video. If you watch more than just a little you'll see I'm not advocating the use of the 4 square, in fact I'm condeming it's use. Spend a few minutes to listen to the words and see the annotations before you pigeon hole me. Your ignorant and haven't watched it or read the comments posted by others like you that made the same mistake and then apologized.

[sellscars]

Interesting article in todays (12/14/09) Automotive News titled 6 No Sale Sins.

Proponents of the stick 'em on the ceiling and peel off system of negotiating ought to find a copy and read it.

[rwalden2007]

The one good thing about the 4-square is you will find out very quickly who's serious about buying. For example, in the scenario shown here, the customer wants you to pay off his upside-down trade, wants to put no money down, and wants payments on a $30,000 vehicle at 300 a month. I know it's just a starting point, but those numbers are so unrealistic it's probably best to ask the customer just how it is he believes any of those numbers are possible.

[sellscars]

I believe the customer is serious about buying or they wouldn't be in the dealership.

The 4 square negotiation is what results in this type of scenario.

For the last 30 days I've been working in a Ford store and a Chevy store. By implementing processe we have increased volume in both by 30% while simultaneously increasing gross per car by $400.00.

There is a better way and it produces more volume with higher gross.

[rwalden2007]

Maybe I should define what I mean by serious. My definition for serious buyer is the same as for every sales manager in this area I've ever worked for: Is the customer ready to buy the car right now (not tomorrow, or next week, or six months down the road); but, right now if we can get together on figures? If they're not, then they are not serious buyers. The 4-Square, used properly, will smoke out the serious buyers from the ones who want to shop forever.......

[sellscars]

"is this the car you'd buy if the figures are agreeable" will generate a "no" at least 50% of the time.

If you write more you'll sell is what we've always been told and it is in fact the truth. Assume they are there to buy, write 'em up and use a presentation that is more in line with what they'd like to see.

[rwalden2007]

......Once the serious buyer is smoked out from those who are at the dealership but not serious, then we can get serious about working the deal. I mean, get real, there's no reason to grind it out with a customer for an hour or so if they're not ready to buy. And btw, I'm not suggesting the 4-square as a closing tool, merely as an opening move. There's no rule that you have to stay with the 4-square. You can just use it as an introductory move. In fact, I believe that's the best use of it.

[sellscars]

Before they ever come to a dealership they've decided that they want or need a car or truck, what kind of car or truck and that they would buy from that dealer, or they would not be there.

Only 2 issues remaining are price and time. 4 square is process disliked by buyers and salespeople alike. If neither like it why put everyone through it, especially since it is less effective than other methods. If you'd like to see the method I'm refering to go to my channel and send me a message.

[rwalden2007]

A friend of mine uses the most impressive meet & greet I've ever seen. He greets the customer with these exact words: "Hello there, welcome to ________. My name is ________ and I thank you for coming in today. Now if I have the car you like and I have the numbers you like, are you ready to buy this morning/afternoon?" If they say no or maybe, he TOs'em to another salesman. If they end of buying he DOES NOT take half the deal. This guy consistently does 30 a month.......

[sellscars]

I know a guy that uses the meet & greet "Welcome to the dealership. What can I get you a price on today"

He sells 40 + every month and he never asks the customer to buy. Send me a message and I'll give you his name, number and the dealership he works at.

[dnohl75]

@sellscars I would have been fired on the spot if one of my managers heard me say that to a customer. I really wish they would have let me try to sell cars honestly. They wanted me to build a friendship and then basically piss these people off. Where's the logic in that? I loved working with customers but my managers ruined that. They think that customers are dumb and have to be deceived to buy a car. They are the ones that were dumb as hell.

[rwalden2007]

........Point I'm making is that different things work for different people. I personally like the 4-square but I don't use it all the time. Just depends on the situation. I do think we sometimes spend too much time harping on what the customers don't like about the selling process. I know that's a consideration, but from where I stand, the heavy hitters in this area are always, without exception, those guys and gals that are "in your face" "buy it right now or else" type of salespeople.

[danp1267]

new car dealers gross profits are down because they won't pay salesmen a fair commision. They don't train salesman and they too often change course too soon with every new gimmick.

[danp1267]

well the car business trys to reinvent itself ahh. the four square work because people don't buy cars everyday. When it is used correctly it is very effective. The customer who has been to ten different dealership and spent 6 hours on the internet might not enjoy it but when he gets to the point of making a purchase it all comes down to payment, payment payment and down payment

[sellscars]

The customer is what drives change in the business. Don't change and eventually you'll become extinct, just like the dinosaurs.

What killed the dinosaurs was an inability to adapt to a changed environment.

[scotter420wigb]

4 square selling can be used on dummies and jerks who don't tell you what they want to be at payment . But in general educated customers don't want to deal with bullshit like that. They know what they want to pay, did there research,have a lot of money and great credit and have there own financing. I sold car's for 3 years and now i get personal vechiles at invoice everytime, and help my friends get great deals, its not rocket science.

[rwalden2007]

In my opinion, repeat, my opinion, you can still, today, in 2009, use the 4-Square on some customers. It just simply depends. There's a small number of customers who are begging to be 4-Squared. They won't cooperate with your qualifying, they won't tell you where they want to be on financing, they won't tell you what they want for their trade. I don't like using it, but it beats the heck out of negotiating with myself.

[sellscars]

They won't cooperate with your qualifying because of the way it's done, meaning the questions are being asked in a way they don't like. Instead of asking a question offer to give them information.

Before you leave here I'd like to help you pick out a car, get you a price on it, estimates on downpayment and monthly payment. How's that sound? The response will tell you what type of buyer you've got.

[rwalden2007]

sellscars with due respect, that is total, absolute B.S. You can be the best qualifier in the world and still every now and then you're going to come across that customer who just isn't going to play ball. This is the kind of customer I'm talking about that deserves to be 4-Squared. Remember, in my original post I said "a small number." That's exactly what I mean. BTW, I won't claim to be the best at qualifying; but I do claim to be damn good at it.

[sellscars]

I was the GSM of an auto group selling over 14,000 cars and trucks per year. I have helped many dealerships realize millions they'd left on the table.

There are many ways to handle any situation but only one best way. Apply that method each and every time and then if you feel it neccessary in that one situation change it up but always, always use the best method first.

A small number may need to be 4 sq'd but none deserve it.

Too often qualifying becomes disqualifying.

[rwalden2007]

SELLSCARS: That is just total, complete B.S. Remember I said "...a small number of customers." That's exactly what I meant. You can be the best qualifier in the world and you're still, every now and then, going to get that customer that just won't play ball. That's the 1-in-50 or the 1-in-100 who richly deserves to be 4-Squared. BTW, I don't claim to be the best qualifier out there; but, I do claim to be damn good at it.

[sellscars]

Consider this, if they don't want to "play ball" assume they are qualified, give them quality service and earn the sale. Willingness to buy is far more important than ability. The get me done will identify themselves upfront in most cases.

1 in 50 or 1 in 100 is too few to cause us to revert to old school offensive to the customer practices. When we try to decide who's that 1 in 100 we risk offending the 99.

Focus on the 49 in 50 or 99 in 100 and don't worry about those 1 or 2.

[rwalden2007]

Couple of years ago, I had a GSM who simply insisted we lowly salesmen were lazy and cutting corners and not following the holy grail (The Roadmap To The Sale). We'd had 3-4 month dip in our market and our numbers were off about 20-25%. He decides to teach us how its done, he's going out on the lot and take ups for a week. Third day in, Wednesday, with no sales, he quit his job. He quit his job! Lesson? Contrary to what you believe, sometimes, it's really not the salesman's fault.

[sellscars]

I DO NOT believe you or anyone else are "just lowly salesmen". I consider myself a salesman also.

I DO believe that we must be constantly learning and trying new things. If you are satisfied with your results and your paycheck then don't change a thing. If you want to sell more cars and earn more money try to keep an open mind and accept that there could be a better way.

I apologize if you think my comments are some kind of attack on sales people. It's just a conversation.

[MarcsBoardShop]

I understand what Mike is doing here. He is showing you a 4 square technique that does not work and the sad part is the dealers are still using this style of selling. This is the way I was tought to sell cars in 1989. I hated selling cars under this program. This 4 square selling technique does not work and it also makes the customer mad because you can never get to their figures. I think Jim Siegler tought this technique back in 1989 when I started selling.

[ElChingon87]

Ok i've been in the business 6 months now, and the 4 square is all i know. What different methods are out there that work? Great Video by the way..

[sellscars]

JD Power did a survey of auto salespeople about their jobs. The thing salespeople did not like about their job was the price negotiation with the customer.

That's because most dealerships use a 4square for negotiating. I'll be posting a video soon on negotiating. Subscribe and you'll get a notice when it is posted.

[rwalden2007]

If you're new to the business, I'd recommend you concentrate on becoming an expert and selling the car. That is, become really good at doing a Features-and-Benefit walk around and a good test drive. Also, work on qualifing your customers as far as needs and wants (i.e., are you on the right car). When it comes to the numbers, you'll get that over time. Until you've got more experience, rely heavily on the desk to work the numbers for you.

[sellscars]

Very good advice.

Offer alternative vehicles to the customer as a means of determining if you're on the right car, rather than "is this the car you'd like to own if the figures were agreeable" type questions. At least half will answer no to that question just as a defensive measure.

Assume all customer are there to buy.

[trainthewinners]

do you feel that these types of videos are helpful to our industry? Anyone who is not in the business is repulsed by this video, and anyone who is in the business is wondering why you would promote this as a viable method in todays market.

[sellscars]

The point is that working a 4 square is repulsive to the buying public and is one of the factors contributing to customer dissatisfaction.

Do you think this video is promoting use of the 4 square? Some people like that our industry is in trouble and this is one reason why.

According to a JD Powers survey of car salespeople price negotiation is the least favorite part of their job.

If customers are repulsed by it and salespeople dislike it as well, why is it still in widespread use?

[trainthewinners]

I understand that it is still in "wide spread use" and I believe it is a reason so many dealers are struggling. Clinging to old methods that had their time and place but today is not that time and place.

[trainthewinners]

I apologize for sounding condescending in my tone. The commercial you posted as a "response" caught me off guard. I know there are many dealers looking for material like the kind you have posted in your library.

I'm not sure what you mean by,

"Do you think this video is promoting use of the 4 square..."

It would seem that you are promoting it as a valid and the most effective way to structure a deal!?

Best of luck to you and your salespeople,

Jon

[sellscars]

Watch to the end and you should be able to see it is a condemnation of the use of the 4 square.

I have not used a 4 square in over 12 years. It's antiquated and customers hate it.

[trainthewinners]

This is a perfect example of assuming and making an ass out of myself. I apologize. I was skipping around in your video instead of watching the whole thing. By skipping I only picked up parts that sounded like you were promoting it. I apologize for making the classic salesperson error of "Prequalifing" your presentation.

Thanks for correcting me. I've watched the whole thing now and see what you were doing.

[sellscars]

Thanks for spending the time to get through it.