Can a person be saved if be denies Jesus is God?

[007bfitz]

@krrwasser Good point he insults a fictional God that he doesn't believe in but yet his anger is real towards this fictional God. Sounds more like a demonic deception influencing a man whom he will one day take to Hell but yet that demonic force cannot hide his anger towards this God.

[gjsterp]

The god of the Bible is an asshole, which I think fits anyone who commits genocide or condons it.

BUT, god is NOT the issue.

The issue is YOU thinking YOU have it within your power to know what will happen to me on Judgement Day - a fictional day.

Based on what? Ancient texts written by superstious men?

In effect you are elavating yourself, but especially your ego, to that of your imaginary god, when in fact you know SHIT !

[gjsterp]

@krrwasser Your threat to me on Judgement Day is a reflection of the ego problem

I see with religous types like yourself.

It must feel good ( and inflate your ego) to be able to say someone is going to Hell without having the courage to actually say it.

You sooo know what your god will do to people like me, when you can't even come up with a good description of this imaginary deity.

I can't hate god(s) anymore than I can hate unicorns. I hate lies, therefore I hate all religions.

[gjsterp]

@krrwasser Sadly, we the living are the only ones who know Hitchens existed. He doesn't even know that. He's dead.

Here's a riddle for you. Who instructed and gave John authority to baptize people?

Baptism was not a Jewish practice.

The only ritual Jewish cleansing is called Mikveh.

Baptism (from ancient Greek dipping in liquid) is a Christian ceremony, adopted after Christianity became Grecianized with pagan rituals and celebrations.

[gjsterp]

@krrwasser Maybe you could give me a link to the spanking of Bart Erhman?

I have watched several of Lane's videos and he is a very good speaker.

Very polished, but his words lack substance.

There are no logicasl arguments for irrational beliefs. PERIOD.

[gjsterp]

@krrwasser I think asshole is a rather tame word to use for the god of the Bible.

While you may consider yourself a sinful twerp in need of salvation, I do not consider myself either. I believe there are many reasons to live a moral life, but I do not believe Western religion has been a good guide or was the reason people developed morals.

If you want to get a good moral guide, check out Papyrus of Ani.

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser Can you prove your god created the universe? On what basis do you believe that? My knowledge is based on facts, yours is based on blind faith and fantasy. If anyone needs psyche meds it's you.

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser What facts have you shown, retard?! You can't even prove your god created a damn thing, now go home and get your shinebox!!

[PinwheelPeter]

@krrwasser Says the person believing in ridiculous tales written by desert goat herders 3,000 years ago. If anyone needs 'Psch meds' (Protip: It's Psych), it's you. Christian hypocrisy is hilarious. Grow up, stop clinging onto your childish beliefs, and gain some freewill. It's easy.

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser okaaaayyyyy looks like you checked out. See ya. 

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser Of course you care what I believe. Otherwise you wouldn't have asked, loser!

As for the universe question, at this point, it's not easy to tell. Scientists still don't have an answer.

So answer this: Do you believe yahweh/jehovah created the universe?

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser I don't know if it's eternal and I don't care what some atheist said. Remember, not all atheists believe in the same thing in regards to the universe and life on earth. However, scientists believe the universe came into existence naturally via "big bang" and the formation of the earth was a process that took billions of years, as opposed to the creation deluge that states the earth was created in 144 hours about 5K years ago.

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser First of all, not all atheists believe in the same thing in regards to the universe. There are some atheists that believe aliens created life, while others believe it happened naturally. Second, the adherents of the abrahamic faiths believe that "man" was created from DIRT for the sole purpose of worshiping god. Of course none of this is based on scientific discovery. Finally, what kind of a loving god would send someone to an eternal hell? Doesn't sound benevolent at all.

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser Morons? It's you theists that believe angels rape women, animals can talk, and the dead can rise from the grave, yet you think atheists are morons?

One way or the other, religion will be eradicated.

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser Yeah and it says it doesn't appear in the earliest mss. Stop believing in made up fantasies.

[gjsterp]

@krrwasser Do you evangelical types ever consider the asshole of a god you have created and believe exists?

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser Ah so you admit defeat yes?

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser I know. What a bunch of losers. Religion is sham.

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser What the hell are you talking about? Refute me? Why, because you said so? ROFLMAO!!!!!!

They rejected Jesus because he didn't fulfill the prophecy of bringing peace on earth and establish a kingdom, among other things.

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser It's an interpolation because it was an ADDITION to the text that was not found in ANY of the earliest mss. Same problem occurs in 1 John 5:7, which didn't appear until the 14th or 15th century due to Erasmus, but that didn't stop trinitarians from leaving it in there and printing it in the KJV.

It is you who that is ignorant!

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser The "church" didn't come up with the trinity until 300-350 years after Jesus.

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser How can they be the same god if there are three separate people? The Jews (and Muslims) believe God is indivisible. That means he cannot be divided.

I noticed you quoted the NT to support your beliefs, but you've made no quotes from the tanach? That's because the trinity is not a Jewish doctrine but is a Greek pagan one. Also, why ignore John 5 where Jesus called the Father the "only true god?"

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser SO you admitted that the trinitarian god is not mentioned in the tanach? Interesting.

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser You didn’t explain it. You are basically saying you don’t know. That’s a cop out.

As for the jews, they rejected jesus because they don’t believe he was the messiah. Why would that be?

It matters much if John 1:1-18 wasn’t found in early mss. It means it’s an interpolation.

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser At least you admit you can't understand or explain the trinity, yet you act as if it's logical. The Jews don't believe Yahweh is a trinitarian being. The trinitarian deity is not found in the torah/tanach.

Also, you do know John 1:1-18 doesn't appear in the earliest manuscripts, right?

[TheGoogler77]

@krrwasser That statement doesn't help your case. For instance, I know a family is made up of several people, but how can one God or Deity be made up of several gods or deities and still be called one god or monotheism?

It sounds like you believe in tri-theism (polytheism) or Henotheism.

[moogandfender]

The claim "echad" is a compound unity or oneness is an example of argument by assertion without logical proof. Echad appears some 960 times in the Hebrew Bible and in no case does the word itself carry a hint of plurality. It means strictly "one, not two or more". Echad is a numerical adjective and is sometimes found modifying a collective noun - one family, one herd, one bunch, but the sense of plurailty is in the compound noun, not the word echad - 'one'.

[42cody1]

@moogandfender or one flesh such as man and woman Gen 2:24 as another example, but it can define a God that is disticnt in persons just as it defines a man that is distinct in persons yet ONE echad flesh. Adam and Eve of course at one time were both called Man. Gen 5:1forgive my insertion, I know your being real technical here but if it doesn't show plurality in Gen 2:24 no doubt two distinct people are implied by context but yet One. Love in Christ.

[gjsterp]

If Jesus was so forgiving of sinners, as he is said to be in the Gospels, then a little thing like belief in him should not be relevant to him, unless he has an ego problem, and as far as I have seen, only Christians have that problem.

"I've been SAVED, and now I want to save the world !!"

Forget it Christians, that was Jesus' job or so you all believe.

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@gjsterp Belief in Christ is not an "ego issue" - it is a salvation issue. Only Christ led a perfect, sinless life. Only Christ is God in the flesh with the power to save our souls. Christ came to fulfill the work of the cross and to save us, but after His ascension it became the Christian's job to spread the word on how believing in Christ can save you.

[gjsterp]

@1111UltraViolet1111 You wrote 'Belief in Christ is not an "ego issue"' But it IS ! How proud are you to say 'I'm saved.' And how do you REALLY know? You don't. You just spout off what you've heard other say.

Isn't it time you really looked for some proof? Ask yourself 'who wrote the Bible' then go and read a scholarly book on the issue, not one biased by belief. Watch Bart Erhmans History of the Bible here on YT. He was a devout Christian. Read his autobiography too.

[gjsterp]

@1111UltraViolet1111 You didn't mention 'soul' but since you think you are saved, I assume you think you have one.

Google Ancient Theories of Soul go to Standford edu site get an understanding on what the Greeks considered a soul to be.

The concept of an immaterial soul surviving the body is common today but was not found in ancient Hebrew beliefs. The word (nephesh) never means immortal soul or an incorporeal part of the human being that can survive death of the body as the spirit of dead.

[venom769]

@sbgrox11 even the word "one" from the Hebrew is echad, which is a compound unity. yachid could have been used instead, which would agree with your view that God is one in "absolute singularity"(yachid), but that's not the word used for the one God of the Bible, Who has been revealed as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

[TheGoogler77]

@venom769 How can three separate people be one God?

[thesergio1478]

so im an indian from the amason river and i got my bible and i know hou to read so i need dhis idiot to tell me that what im reading means something else?

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@sbgrox11 You insisted on one verse. 1 John 5:7 is one of the most obvious. You can also see Matthew 28:19. I am aware of the so-called controversy over 1 John 5:7. However,if what it said did not agree with scripture it would not have been added. I believe that God does preserve His word. There are many verses that show the divinity of father, son and holy spirit. If all three are divine and God is ONE then it follows that all three are the one God. This conclusion is not hard to understand.

[gjsterp]

@1111UltraViolet1111 You wrote: 'There are many verses that show the divinity of father...'

These verses 'show' and prove nothing. They merely show someone thought they were true.

It does show that you think the writers thoughts were true.

Why not abandon other people's thoughts and find some of your own?

If you desire some real revelation, why not look at some of the pictures taken by the Hubble Space Telescope?

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@gjsterp The Bible proves everything. The Bible is not "other people's thoughts" - they are the inspired words of God. Believing the Bible does not negate my own thoughts - it changes and enhances them for the better. As long as you only seek "revelation" in a particular aspect of God's creation (as you say "the pictures taken by the Hubble Space Telescope") you will never truly have the God who created the universe in your life. We are to worship the CREATOR - not His creation.

[gjsterp]

@1111UltraViolet1111 Saying the 'Bible proves everything' isn't saying anything. 'inspired words of god' is a cliche, and saying it a thousand times will not make it so. But I understand that someone said it to you at least once, and you believe it.

Revelation is only revelation to the person who claims to receive it, after that it is merely hearsay.

In a court of law no one takes what someone says, based on what someone else said.

There are so many things wrong with the Bible, where to begin?

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@sbgrox11 I never said doctrine was built on one verse. You are the one who required just one verse showing the Trinity. It is obvious that you reject the idea of having to look at many verses (which are related, by the way) to come up with a doctrine. How do you think the cults got their doctrine that Jesus is not God? It came from gathering verses together to try to prove it - but they always leave out Christ's uncreated eternal divinity - they just focus on His ministry in a created body.

[007bfitz]

@1111UltraViolet1111 Well said !

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@sbgrox11 I thought you were going to end the discussion when you said "hey, I'm gonna end this here." lol. Anyway, you cannot demand of the Bible "show me one verse or else". Doctrine is never built around just one verse. You have to search the Bible as a whole. If you still need a verse - 1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@sbgrox11 God is just as holy and He is loving and He does have standards. Yes, if you believe wrongly you will not meet His standards. He has spelled out His plan of salvation and who Christ is and it is able to be understood. Choose wisely. I will also sign off now. God Bless.

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@sbgrox11 I heard this same stuff in TWI - the first century church didn't believe Jesus was God - the Bible got "corrupted" and only in the 20th century was it correctly "restored" to Dr. Wierwielle as it hadn't been known since the first century - blabla. I have been "on your side" believing Jesus was not God when I was in TWI and even after I left. I finally believed the Trinity because I saw it clearly in scripture. God expects us to know who He is because our salvation does depend on it.

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@sbgrox11 I was told the same thing in TWI - that the doctrine of the Trinity didn't exist until the 4th century. The Trinity was never formally declared a doctrine until then but it has been in the Bible since Genesis 1. Christ claimed to be God on many occasions (this is why they sought to kill Him). When Thomas called him "my Lord and my God" Christ did not deny it. Christ and the apostles warned often about counterfeits because believing and confessing the right Christ is a salvation issue.

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@sbgrox11 No, logically they are not all the same - they are 3 separate and distinct beings who together are God. If God says He consists of 3 separate beings then so be it. I used to hold onto my Jesus is not God beliefs even after I left TWI mostly because I was TOLD that the Trinity is wrong. TWI even went so far as to have the book called Jesus Christ is Not God and even in that they couldn't prove He wasn't. The Trinity does hold up under scrutiny for those who are willing to see it.

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@sbgrox11 Christ and the Apostles warned many times about not believing false Christs. It does seem to be an issue and yes, it seems to be a salvation issue. How can a false Jesus save you? The Bible has not been as manipulated and corrupted as most people choose to think. If it was, why even believe it at all? If God cannot preserve His word intact how or why should we believe?

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@sbgrox11 Actually, those who followed Christ and believed in Him when He was here on Earth DID know exactly who He was. The apostles knew very clearly who Christ was and He had even asked them specifically to tell Him who they thought He was. If they weren't clear on that they would not have been His apostles. The Trinity IS clearly implied in scripture - check out What Is the Trinity Doctrine and the debate between Walter Martin and the JWs on YouTube if you're interested.

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@sbgrox11 You don't seem to understand the Trinity. The trinity does not say that the Son is the Father. The Trinity is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as 3 distinct beings making up the one God. If you're interested look up the debates between Walter Martin and the JWs.

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@sbgrox11 Knowing who Jesus is is not just "a" doctrinal point it is THE most important doctrinal point. Jesus is the subject of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.  What could be more important than knowing who He really is?

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@sbgrox11 @sbgrox11 This is the cult I was in actually. Like all cults they deny the real, Biblical Jesus. This video also states that you have to have the correct Jesus to be saved. The Bible clearly warns against false Christs. This obviously indicates the importance of having the real Christ to be saved.

[moogandfender]

With all the arguments put forth to support the trinity it does not show Christianity and the vast majority of Christians who hold to this doctrine in a strong light. "The trinity" can not be explained without a departure from scriptural language. The word "trinity" is not in the bible, "deity" is not in the bible, "3 in 1" is not in the bible, "God-man" is not in the bible. Amazing how much effort is put forth defending a doctrine that's not in the bible just to get people to think it is..

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@sbgrox11 The only "tradition" cults have is error. I used to be in a cult and am now free of the error and bondage. If you want to stick to your non-Trinitarian Jesus then so be it.

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@sbgrox11 You can't get saved with the wrong Jesus. If you do not believe Jesus is God you have the wrong Jesus. All cults deny the deity of Jesus.

[SwordofManticorE]

@1111UltraViolet1111 Real believers in Christ call Him by His real name, not the english word you use called jesus.

[CountryHoppers]

Good for you Dr. Martin!! John 1

[SwordofManticorE]

Hmm? Does Christ require our consent to save us? If it is God's will to save all mankind (1Tim2:3-4) why is He dependent on our free will to save us?

[1111UltraViolet1111]

@SwordofManticorE Yes Christ requires our consent because he gave us free will to choose Him or not - otherwise we would be mindless robots. It IS God's will to save all but He knows that not all will choose Him.

[SwordofManticorE]

@1111UltraViolet1111 Where do you find mindless robots in scripture? Where do you find free will in Scripture? What about God's will? Is His will nulified because our free will is more powerful?

[42cody1]

Vince didnt you hear Dr, Walter Martin said that the Word ''Jesus" was with God= the Father face to face, "pros ton theon" and that this word was God. Face to Face denotes that there were two persons being spoken of in this passage. Please don't post hateful things when you are misunderstanding what he is saying to begin with. Be responsible for the words that come from your mouth, it could cost a soul.

[jimcamilos]

I believe that "born again" are cults too.

[Vince4Vince]

The John 1.1 clearly says that the Word is referring to Jesus.. Any lame or anybody havent read the Bible could tell there is 2 person involved here. Ths Dr Walter is a Dr loose a screw in the head? look at him he look sick and dying for speaking againts the Most High.

[42cody1]

@Vince4Vince I believe Walter Martine would agree with you that 2 ppl are spoken of in John 1:1.

[Vince4Vince]

You will burn my friend.. unless you repent.. you still have time and only by Gods Grace he could undo your heart.. before its too late. This Walter dude is satan himself manifested in human form.. a satanis in deceiving many..

[Yuratchka]

This guy is an idiot.

[goonodeath]

Satan obviously lead you to spell the title of the video wrong.

[TheLORDismySheperd1]

This video is the truth :))))

John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[stupidbutfunnylol1]

@RobertBaral365 you sick bastard

[RobertBaral365]

Dark powers caressing my mind. In my unveiling, a body of shade. My heart, his infernal tongue. Blasphemous rituals lead the way to Lucifer. We adore the work of the devil. On a path of evil incarnation. He is below and above you. His life is ecstasy in yours. Under the inverted cross of the lord. See your soul in a black dimension. Pray to the weak god of infinity. Your pallid prayers are forgotten. You are the stranger to our champion. I lead you to the throne of Old Nick.

[TheLORDismySheperd1]

Great video!

GOD bless you & thanks for posting this video!