In lingua latina amba verba, "ex Patre" et "ex Patre Filioque," accepta sunt. "Ex Patre solo," tamen, hæresis est quia "procedit" significat "ἐκπόρευσις" et "προϊέναι." "Προϊέναι" in lingua græca actionis ex Filio est, ergo "ex Patre solo" dicere aut "ex Patre sed non ex Filio" dicere est hæresis.
" ex Patre solo" non est haeresis. ex Patre Filioque haeresis est. " procedit" significat "''ἐκπορεύεται" ergo haeresis est dicere " filioque procedit" .
"Procedit" means both "ἐκπόρευσις" and "προϊέναι." "Προϊέναι" in Greek is an action from the Son, which is why saying "ex Patre solo procedit" is heretical because it is not taking into consideration the full meaning of the Latin word. For this reason, in Latin, there is an option of saying "Filioque," but in Greek there is not because the Greek verb is more specific than any word of similar meaning in Latin.
so, if " procedit" does not mean only " 'ἐκπορεύεται" the latin creed must be corrected with the appropriate and specific word so as to be a right translation of the original greek text. Deus vobiscum!
1. There is no other word in the Latin language that describes it as well as "procedere."
2. There has never been a problem with the use of "procedere" in the Creed, only with the addition of the Filioque. (NB: There was no problem with the theology of the Filioque when it was introduced, only the fact that it was added.)
3. If you eliminate the Filioque in Latin and in many other Western European languages, you open the Creed to the possibility of an Arian interpretation.
You are referring to what the Eastern Orthodox call the Fourth Council of Constantinople, which is not recognized as ecumenical, even by the Orthodox themselves, and so has no authority over the whole Church. In fact, that council was in reaction to the original Fourth Council of Constantinople, which deposed Photius and reinstated him after the original patriarch, Ignatius, died.
Of course it's an Ecumenical Council!! Photius was the original Patriarch! I removed your answer by mistake, please rewrite it! About Maximus the Confessor: it means nothing to me! Filioque is not a biblical instruction and Bible is source of our creed.
If you would refer yourself to history, you would know that Ignatius was patriarch, but was deposed by the emperor. The pope reinstated Ignatius and allowed Photius to take the patriarchate after Ignatius died, as per Church law.
Pope Ioannis anathematized the Copuncil of 869-870 and accepted the Council of 880 as Ecumenical. There are two manuscipts with the Minutes of the Council in Vatican and Athos.
I have read all the Minutes of the Council. During the second session of the Council 8 letters were read: the second one was Pope's (John) to Photios in which cancelled the Council of 870.
Popes have addressed local and ecumenical councils. Tell me how it is that the Fourth Council of Constantinople was ecumenical. What makes it ecumenical?
I guess you should get rid of "God from God" then, since we added that too. Furthermore, they were talking about a theological addition, not a verbal addition. Neither the phrase "God from God," nor the Filioque represent a departure from the same faith and theology that composed the Creed.
@syonnain No. The entire clause "God from God, light from light, true God from true God" is a Latin addition to the Creed accepted by even the Orthodox Church.
@nuduaspiaggia This is very interesting, I didn't know that. When did the addition happen? Can you please indicate some texts where I can find out more about this?
@syonnain@syonnain@syonnain Keep in mind that the Creed used in the Orthodox Church is not the "original" Greek Creed even if in Greek. The Council of Constantinople deleted the final anathema and the "God from God" original to the Nicene Creed. The clause "God from God, light from light, true God from true God" was reintroduced in the West after the Council of Constantinople. This is one page in a long article about the Creed: ht tp :// wa pedia. mobi /e n/ Filioque? t=2.2. Check it out.
"He [Jesus] said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Spirit."
Jesus sent forth the Holy Spirit into the world with His breath! See and believe how the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son!
Unfortunately, "per" is not equivalent to "διὰ." "Per" has in it the idea of "means by which." If we were to replace "ex Filio" with "per Filio" as you might suggest, we would be saying the the Son created the Holy Spirit, which is not true. "Ex" also means "out of," and Jesus did breathe out the Holy Spirit, ergo the Holy Spirit proceeded out of the Son--"ex Filio procedit." Please lear Latin; it will help you understand!
Ignatius was an eunuch and he mustn't have been Patriarch. The 8th Ecumenical Council rejected Filioque andd deposed Pope Nicolaus. the manuscript of Mansi skips the creed from the acts of the parody- Council of 869-870
You cannot argue against addition because you have accepted the phrase "God from God," which is a Latin addition. You cannot argue against the theology of the Filioque as understood in Latin since St. Maximus the Confessor (a Greek saint) defended it.
If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, ...
He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live, For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. (Romans 8:10-14).
Δόξα πατριαρχία ke EIO Όρος Pnevmati ke, ke Nin ke ένα ee ke e-onas κουτί μπροστά, ton e-onon. αμήν. Amin.
MegaKrishan123 8 months ago
I have no idea why it says Credo in unum deum. It is grammatically wrong.
It should be Credo uno Deo.
Credo takes its object in the dative case, not in + accusative.
This rule is for, at least Classical Latin; I guess the creed was written, after the classical era of Latin.
LVCIVSTVLLIVSATELLVS 1 year ago
@LVCIVSTVLLIVSATELLVS And the Greek has the same mistake here: πιστευειν is with a dative, not εις + acc.
emile345 1 year ago
@LVCIVSTVLLIVSATELLVS This is Liturgical Latin, not Classical Latin. :)
TenderTrap86 9 months ago
Dear greek friend, could you tell me the name of this amazing song?
I do like the religious music of your country too!
ggggalego 2 years ago 2
it isn't a greek one.
prioni22 2 years ago
It must be hell of a wonder to talk to Prioni22 & nuduaspiaggia. Much to learn !!
jose1mannix 2 years ago
i clicked on " remove" instead of " reply" i am sorry. it was one of the biggest councils!
prioni22 2 years ago
@prioni22
Explain how the Reaction to the Fourth Council of Constantinople is ecumenical.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
about 400 bishops participated to the Council! only 84 bishops signs the acts of the Council of 870.
prioni22 2 years ago
@prioni22
So you're telling me that if 400 bishops get together, whatever they say is ecumenical and binding on the Church?
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
Gloria in excelsis Deo, et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis.
Amen.
ggggalego 2 years ago 6
QVI EX PATRE FILIOQVE PROCEDIT!
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
EX PATRE SOLO.
prioni22 2 years ago
@prioni22
In lingua latina amba verba, "ex Patre" et "ex Patre Filioque," accepta sunt. "Ex Patre solo," tamen, hæresis est quia "procedit" significat "ἐκπόρευσις" et "προϊέναι." "Προϊέναι" in lingua græca actionis ex Filio est, ergo "ex Patre solo" dicere aut "ex Patre sed non ex Filio" dicere est hæresis.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago 2
" ex Patre solo" non est haeresis. ex Patre Filioque haeresis est. " procedit" significat "''ἐκπορεύεται" ergo haeresis est dicere " filioque procedit" .
prioni22 2 years ago
Thank you for your explanation!
ggggalego 2 years ago 3
@ggggalego
You're welcome. As is common among those who oppose the Filioque, Prioni22 does not understand Latin very well at all.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
ha ha ha!!!! language is not an issue!
prioni22 2 years ago
@prioni22
"Procedit" means both "ἐκπόρευσις" and "προϊέναι." "Προϊέναι" in Greek is an action from the Son, which is why saying "ex Patre solo procedit" is heretical because it is not taking into consideration the full meaning of the Latin word. For this reason, in Latin, there is an option of saying "Filioque," but in Greek there is not because the Greek verb is more specific than any word of similar meaning in Latin.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
so, if " procedit" does not mean only " 'ἐκπορεύεται" the latin creed must be corrected with the appropriate and specific word so as to be a right translation of the original greek text. Deus vobiscum!
prioni22 2 years ago
@prioni22
1. There is no other word in the Latin language that describes it as well as "procedere."
2. There has never been a problem with the use of "procedere" in the Creed, only with the addition of the Filioque. (NB: There was no problem with the theology of the Filioque when it was introduced, only the fact that it was added.)
3. If you eliminate the Filioque in Latin and in many other Western European languages, you open the Creed to the possibility of an Arian interpretation.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
Filioque was a problem. The 8th Ecoumenical Synodus (if this is the right word) rejected it. Filioque is an addition.
prioni22 2 years ago
@prioni22
You are referring to what the Eastern Orthodox call the Fourth Council of Constantinople, which is not recognized as ecumenical, even by the Orthodox themselves, and so has no authority over the whole Church. In fact, that council was in reaction to the original Fourth Council of Constantinople, which deposed Photius and reinstated him after the original patriarch, Ignatius, died.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
Of course it's an Ecumenical Council!! Photius was the original Patriarch! I removed your answer by mistake, please rewrite it! About Maximus the Confessor: it means nothing to me! Filioque is not a biblical instruction and Bible is source of our creed.
prioni22 2 years ago
@prioni22
If you would refer yourself to history, you would know that Ignatius was patriarch, but was deposed by the emperor. The pope reinstated Ignatius and allowed Photius to take the patriarchate after Ignatius died, as per Church law.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
Pope Ioannis anathematized the Copuncil of 869-870 and accepted the Council of 880 as Ecumenical. There are two manuscipts with the Minutes of the Council in Vatican and Athos.
prioni22 2 years ago
@prioni22
Try again--this time without inventing history.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
I have read all the Minutes of the Council. During the second session of the Council 8 letters were read: the second one was Pope's (John) to Photios in which cancelled the Council of 870.
prioni22 2 years ago
@prioni22
Popes have addressed local and ecumenical councils. Tell me how it is that the Fourth Council of Constantinople was ecumenical. What makes it ecumenical?
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
in the 6th session any addition to the Creed was condemned and anathematized.
prioni22 2 years ago
@prioni22
I guess you should get rid of "God from God" then, since we added that too. Furthermore, they were talking about a theological addition, not a verbal addition. Neither the phrase "God from God," nor the Filioque represent a departure from the same faith and theology that composed the Creed.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
@nuduaspiaggia Excuse me, what do you mean by 'God from God' is an addition? Wasn't it in the original creed in greek?
syonnain 1 year ago
@syonnain No. The entire clause "God from God, light from light, true God from true God" is a Latin addition to the Creed accepted by even the Orthodox Church.
nuduaspiaggia 1 year ago
@nuduaspiaggia This is very interesting, I didn't know that. When did the addition happen? Can you please indicate some texts where I can find out more about this?
syonnain 1 year ago
@nuduaspiaggia I am saying this because I am really confused. The original greek creed that I know of has the said statement.
syonnain 1 year ago
@syonnain @syonnain @syonnain Keep in mind that the Creed used in the Orthodox Church is not the "original" Greek Creed even if in Greek. The Council of Constantinople deleted the final anathema and the "God from God" original to the Nicene Creed. The clause "God from God, light from light, true God from true God" was reintroduced in the West after the Council of Constantinople. This is one page in a long article about the Creed: ht tp :// wa pedia. mobi /e n/ Filioque? t=2.2. Check it out.
nuduaspiaggia 1 year ago
@nuduaspiaggia Oh, now I understand. Thank you very much for clearing that up!
syonnain 1 year ago
@syonnain No problem. May we all be one!
nuduaspiaggia 1 year ago
@prioni22 (John 20: 21-22)
"He [Jesus] said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Spirit."
Jesus sent forth the Holy Spirit into the world with His breath! See and believe how the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son!
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
Holy Spirit does not proceed from (ex, greek: ἐκ) but through (per, greek διὰ) Son. see John15,26.
prioni22 2 years ago
@prioni22
Unfortunately, "per" is not equivalent to "διὰ." "Per" has in it the idea of "means by which." If we were to replace "ex Filio" with "per Filio" as you might suggest, we would be saying the the Son created the Holy Spirit, which is not true. "Ex" also means "out of," and Jesus did breathe out the Holy Spirit, ergo the Holy Spirit proceeded out of the Son--"ex Filio procedit." Please lear Latin; it will help you understand!
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
Ignatius was an eunuch and he mustn't have been Patriarch. The 8th Ecumenical Council rejected Filioque andd deposed Pope Nicolaus. the manuscript of Mansi skips the creed from the acts of the parody- Council of 869-870
prioni22 2 years ago
@prioni22
You cannot argue against addition because you have accepted the phrase "God from God," which is a Latin addition. You cannot argue against the theology of the Filioque as understood in Latin since St. Maximus the Confessor (a Greek saint) defended it.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
@prioni22
Also, it's "Dominus tecum" because I'm one person, not many.
nuduaspiaggia 2 years ago
Dominus vobiscum quia loquor cum omnibus!
prioni22 2 years ago
see my new comment. i sent you a personal message.
prioni22 2 years ago
datum sectorum e pluribus unum!
nicomateo23 2 years ago
Eftihismena Christougenna !!!
ggggalego 2 years ago
ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς ἐξουσίαν τέκνα θεοῦ γενέσθαι, τοῖς πιστεύουσιν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ,
Llana100 2 years ago
Οι Καθολικοί το άλλαξαν προσθέτοντας το filioque και κατάντησαν αιρετικοί.
Κρίμα ...
uspex40 2 years ago
(Romans 8:10-14)
If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, ...
IXOYC3lhv 2 years ago 2
He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live, For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. (Romans 8:10-14).
IXOYC3lhv 2 years ago 3
Ξυλούρης - ὁ μικρὸς στρατιώτης :
very nice VD.!!!
IXOYC3lhv 2 years ago 2
Àμήν (Amém). Beautiful (maravilhoso).!!!
(do Brasil).
IXOYC3lhv 2 years ago 3
Love us in Jesus.
grldeloimedinagalego 3 years ago 14
This has been flagged as spam show
grldeloimedinagalego:- That's all... !!!
Love us in Jesus.
ggggalego 2 years ago