I really don't understand how the YF-22 and YF-23 had similar performances. The YF-23 was faster, it had a much better thrust/weight ratio. It was better. I really laughed when that guy said that "they had the 2nd best fighter in the world". The YF-23 had twice the range of the F-22, it could fly at higher speeds, it had better T/W ratio, better stealth. It was better in every sense of the way. The only way I can see the F-22 was adopted was because of a scam. I can't find another explanation.
UGLY BUT as this video says the F22 was picked because it was cheaper and more maneuverable with thrust vectoring but the YF 23 was stealther and slightly faster. Lets put these to againts each other in a long rage test. I'll bet the YF 23 will get the first radar return or pick up F22 before F22 sees F23 on radar. First shot adantage to the F23?
But about failt Aircraft projetc spyes etc it happend not only by the Arrow . The aircraftdesinger Jackovlev sendet his on son out in a aircraft Factory (who producet Jak Bomber and the pre Serieal Sukhoj Su-15 lot) that his son copy the Su-15 Air intake dravings , and Jackolew used tis for his New jetfighter (but a poor old desing giav not automaticly a better fighter when you only add bether engins).
Well Canda is tottaly differend as the USA the Political system is differend they have French and English speaking. Its a diffrend lifesty Canady has in some way more the European lifestyl who is listen carfuly to the others ans discus a solution out this is a long proces with no action pic in TV with difficult reasons . But the American Politics like to have fast and efectiv results They like to see things only black or withe. I hope for a chanche in the USa
@swisstestpilot No it's really not different at all. I'm German. I live in the US. I have relatives in Canada (Montreal and Nova Scotia), so I'm sure you can appreciate my perspective. As a fellow military aviation prof I further will expect to have you understand I have no reason to lie to you. Canadians are 92% American style people. It's just that everyone hates my country the USA, which I love...schade nicht? ALL BECAUSE: people on the rightwing (22%) vote maniacs like busHitler in.
@newmanfrigan Well i think the discusion went now away of aircrafts. Iknew some people in the USA and some in Canada. I only wuld say in general Canada is a bit more linket to Europa than the USA (metric system, part of the Britishs Commonwealth).Its like somebody would say Germans and Swiss are the same. I want to point out that the canceling of the Canadian Avro Arrow aircraft was a Canadian Politic mather and its wrong if someone blame the USA .
All of those planes you mention are the product of ONE tiny sliver of Lockheed, the Advanced Development section ... the Skunk Works, and in particular Kelly Johnson, and later, Ben Rich with the F-117.
One thing I do not endure gladly is when politics trumps technical/engineering excellence, especially when Canada suffered as a result of their "patriotism".
We're their allies/friends, yet they would rather have inferior technology made in USA than better stuff made by Canada.
But like the USA and Candas it was the same with the swiss N-20 Multiroljet or the P-16 fighterbomber , they wher a head of theyer time but uin the end our politicans buyet the British Venom Vampire and Hunter who wasent so advanct. I think at SAAB of Sweden they are quit similar like switzerland and have a jetighter who is very well (used by S, HU, CZ and ZA) Imagen if what could bee when the Arrow program or the swiss P-16 would have found theyer way in the duty of CAF resp SAF
And on the other hand the Can goverment (also the british) lookt at chrustchev who stopt a few stratecic Bomber projects (Sukhoi Su-100 T-4 , Miasechew M-50 and M-52 ,tsibin. and the massiv pushing of ICM bi Nikita (but he had with his son (the rocket engeneer also civil space programs in minde ). But in the end many westernpoliticans belivet that there will bee only ICB rockets no Bomberairplane any more so also no need for fighterjets to hunt down bombers.
As for the Avro Arrow, my best conjecture is this.
Canada needed export sales of the Arrow to cover its development costs, but could not sell to USA because of pressure from assholes at Lockheed and the Buy America Act.
They would not allow the Arrow to be sold internationally because at the time it was the only plane that could catch Lockheed's U2 spy plane and shoot it down.
So Canada had no choice but to cancel it. Its times like these that Americans can be total bastards. Lockheed = scum.
Well Lockheed madesom nice aircrafts (u-2, SR-71, F-117) But it was clear the USA one of the 2 Superpowers in the Cold WAR, with a high tech Air Craft in the Front of the Air defence who is a product from out of the USA.. American Politicans wold have seen thes as singe of weaknes and they weher to patriotic for this.
Ther is still no answer why the N-20 Porject in switzerland was stopt and even the worker wold payet all costs for a flight they get no permission, or in Fact the Tupolew-160 is not orginal from Tupolew it is build up on the project from the Miasetchew OKB. think also on the Canada Arrow, the britishs TRS2 or the swiss P-16 (who had a better ratings by the Pilots than the Hawker Hunter)
"true best value" ... I think there was some politics involved and I really wish they would de-classify the documents about the decision they made and why.
I think that in technical terms, if they added thrust vectoring to the YF-23, it would have won hands down.
The top speed of the YF-23 is still classified.
As for the costs ... I thought the goal was to give the pilots the best technology period.
It should have been the YF-23 with the GE variable-cycle engine.
Well i never put mee self deeper in the YF-22 vs YF-23 technical and historirical details, i cant say you are right , but i can t say you are wrong .. i dident know it. I think by the A-10 vers A-9 clerly the A-10 was the better airplane. by the Su-25 vers the Il-102 you cant say it the airplanes for the sovyet ground attack roll wehre so differend. But political Resons and powerfull personal in the back have often put theyer finger to suport one 2 prototypes
You're awsome, man! There are just too few documentation videos like this on the net! I wonder if you have the documentation yf-23 black widow ii web of secrecy
No ,i havent the documentation yf-23 black widow ii web of secrecy.
Right now i have upload all aircrafr docus ihave. it seems that i dont have much new in the next time, and the next possibel place for me for filming again is the aircraft gun training at axalp in october. (hope there will also the F-5E replacing the Eurofighter or the Rafale show theyer gun in action).
F-22 should be in the bucket instead of YF-23
krittmasta 5 months ago
I really don't understand how the YF-22 and YF-23 had similar performances. The YF-23 was faster, it had a much better thrust/weight ratio. It was better. I really laughed when that guy said that "they had the 2nd best fighter in the world". The YF-23 had twice the range of the F-22, it could fly at higher speeds, it had better T/W ratio, better stealth. It was better in every sense of the way. The only way I can see the F-22 was adopted was because of a scam. I can't find another explanation.
StiviGun1 5 months ago
I didnt know the 22 had the F/A designation. Thought the 18 still held onto that designation alone. Interesting.
Antifaith29 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If you like the YF23 like me, here are some cool new links:
Website: yf23fighter (dot) com
Youtube: search "YF23 Black Widow II steatlth fighter jet ATF
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lmprods1 7 months ago
Ill be completely honest this is a bunch of F22 info. it is the best dogfighter tho. YF23 should be made into a fighter bomber lol
DrJCCC20 8 months ago
凄恐ろしい機体だ！！
nyukouiti1 10 months ago
The 23 looks cool also, too bad its not gonna be in operation
faokim 1 year ago
I wish we could build both fighter jets. That would be Awesome! But F-22 is Bad Ass on it's own.
cherylz1 1 year ago
YF23 looks more like a bomber than an air superiority fighter...
pilotliam 1 year ago
YF-23 is way better than the f-22 the sad part is its quite expensive. :p
But I prefer YF-23 than F-22 its look better and unique.
yazpaul 2 years ago
UGLY BUT as this video says the F22 was picked because it was cheaper and more maneuverable with thrust vectoring but the YF 23 was stealther and slightly faster. Lets put these to againts each other in a long rage test. I'll bet the YF 23 will get the first radar return or pick up F22 before F22 sees F23 on radar. First shot adantage to the F23?
rockpianoguy 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
F23 is ugly as hell.
Typhoon07 2 years ago
i agree
lukatoll 2 years ago
it it but i herd form some one the f-23 might come back
aaronh257 2 years ago
Hate to see the YF 23 sitting there doing nothing
Nickshark1982 2 years ago 9
I agree with you I like that plane
Optimus313 2 years ago
But about failt Aircraft projetc spyes etc it happend not only by the Arrow . The aircraftdesinger Jackovlev sendet his on son out in a aircraft Factory (who producet Jak Bomber and the pre Serieal Sukhoj Su-15 lot) that his son copy the Su-15 Air intake dravings , and Jackolew used tis for his New jetfighter (but a poor old desing giav not automaticly a better fighter when you only add bether engins).
swisstestpilot 3 years ago
Further to my comments about Lockheed... its the CIA, for whom the U2 was developed, that portray Americans at their worst.
Nasty, immoral, rabid, degenerate American agents cause all kinds of havoc in the world, even for their allies, as what happened to the Arrow.
CIA are one major reason America is hated by many countries. Even Canada has been stung by their venom.
nightowl8936 3 years ago
Well Canda is tottaly differend as the USA the Political system is differend they have French and English speaking. Its a diffrend lifesty Canady has in some way more the European lifestyl who is listen carfuly to the others ans discus a solution out this is a long proces with no action pic in TV with difficult reasons . But the American Politics like to have fast and efectiv results They like to see things only black or withe. I hope for a chanche in the USa
swisstestpilot 3 years ago
@swisstestpilot No it's really not different at all. I'm German. I live in the US. I have relatives in Canada (Montreal and Nova Scotia), so I'm sure you can appreciate my perspective. As a fellow military aviation prof I further will expect to have you understand I have no reason to lie to you. Canadians are 92% American style people. It's just that everyone hates my country the USA, which I love...schade nicht? ALL BECAUSE: people on the rightwing (22%) vote maniacs like busHitler in.
newmanfrigan 7 months ago
@newmanfrigan Well i think the discusion went now away of aircrafts. Iknew some people in the USA and some in Canada. I only wuld say in general Canada is a bit more linket to Europa than the USA (metric system, part of the Britishs Commonwealth).Its like somebody would say Germans and Swiss are the same. I want to point out that the canceling of the Canadian Avro Arrow aircraft was a Canadian Politic mather and its wrong if someone blame the USA .
swisstestpilot 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@swisstestpilot
By the way, I love your channel and I hope you will check out my channel and like it/subscribe...I need more Aerospace people to hang out there...
Peace from the USA to the World!
(on behalf of the vast majority of the American people, who are misrepresented by the Corporate Right Wing that has disproportionate power here!)
newmanfrigan 7 months ago
All of those planes you mention are the product of ONE tiny sliver of Lockheed, the Advanced Development section ... the Skunk Works, and in particular Kelly Johnson, and later, Ben Rich with the F-117.
One thing I do not endure gladly is when politics trumps technical/engineering excellence, especially when Canada suffered as a result of their "patriotism".
We're their allies/friends, yet they would rather have inferior technology made in USA than better stuff made by Canada.
Stupid^3!!
nightowl8936 3 years ago
But like the USA and Candas it was the same with the swiss N-20 Multiroljet or the P-16 fighterbomber , they wher a head of theyer time but uin the end our politicans buyet the British Venom Vampire and Hunter who wasent so advanct. I think at SAAB of Sweden they are quit similar like switzerland and have a jetighter who is very well (used by S, HU, CZ and ZA) Imagen if what could bee when the Arrow program or the swiss P-16 would have found theyer way in the duty of CAF resp SAF
swisstestpilot 3 years ago
And on the other hand the Can goverment (also the british) lookt at chrustchev who stopt a few stratecic Bomber projects (Sukhoi Su-100 T-4 , Miasechew M-50 and M-52 ,tsibin. and the massiv pushing of ICM bi Nikita (but he had with his son (the rocket engeneer also civil space programs in minde ). But in the end many westernpoliticans belivet that there will bee only ICB rockets no Bomberairplane any more so also no need for fighterjets to hunt down bombers.
swisstestpilot 3 years ago
As for the Avro Arrow, my best conjecture is this.
Canada needed export sales of the Arrow to cover its development costs, but could not sell to USA because of pressure from assholes at Lockheed and the Buy America Act.
They would not allow the Arrow to be sold internationally because at the time it was the only plane that could catch Lockheed's U2 spy plane and shoot it down.
So Canada had no choice but to cancel it. Its times like these that Americans can be total bastards. Lockheed = scum.
nightowl8936 3 years ago
Well Lockheed madesom nice aircrafts (u-2, SR-71, F-117) But it was clear the USA one of the 2 Superpowers in the Cold WAR, with a high tech Air Craft in the Front of the Air defence who is a product from out of the USA.. American Politicans wold have seen thes as singe of weaknes and they weher to patriotic for this.
swisstestpilot 3 years ago
Ther is still no answer why the N-20 Porject in switzerland was stopt and even the worker wold payet all costs for a flight they get no permission, or in Fact the Tupolew-160 is not orginal from Tupolew it is build up on the project from the Miasetchew OKB. think also on the Canada Arrow, the britishs TRS2 or the swiss P-16 (who had a better ratings by the Pilots than the Hawker Hunter)
swisstestpilot 3 years ago
"true best value" ... I think there was some politics involved and I really wish they would de-classify the documents about the decision they made and why.
I think that in technical terms, if they added thrust vectoring to the YF-23, it would have won hands down.
The top speed of the YF-23 is still classified.
As for the costs ... I thought the goal was to give the pilots the best technology period.
It should have been the YF-23 with the GE variable-cycle engine.
nightowl8936 3 years ago
Well i never put mee self deeper in the YF-22 vs YF-23 technical and historirical details, i cant say you are right , but i can t say you are wrong .. i dident know it. I think by the A-10 vers A-9 clerly the A-10 was the better airplane. by the Su-25 vers the Il-102 you cant say it the airplanes for the sovyet ground attack roll wehre so differend. But political Resons and powerfull personal in the back have often put theyer finger to suport one 2 prototypes
swisstestpilot 3 years ago
You're awsome, man! There are just too few documentation videos like this on the net! I wonder if you have the documentation yf-23 black widow ii web of secrecy
twinoceans 3 years ago
No ,i havent the documentation yf-23 black widow ii web of secrecy.
Right now i have upload all aircrafr docus ihave. it seems that i dont have much new in the next time, and the next possibel place for me for filming again is the aircraft gun training at axalp in october. (hope there will also the F-5E replacing the Eurofighter or the Rafale show theyer gun in action).
swisstestpilot 3 years ago