Peter had an important function, wether or not he was lead really doesnt matter, there were 12, and no where in scripture is there a hint Peter was bishop of roam or that he or any other apostle picked a supream leader for all the church. Sorry guys that position has been filled by CHRIST, You will need to create your own world and save it if you want to fill that position.
@PhalanxPerception 1) There would be no mention of the Apostles picking a replacement for Peter, because Peter was still alive when the the Book of Acts was written. 2) We know by the Early Church Fathers that Peter ordained Linus as his successor, before his crucifixion. Linus ordained Clement, etc,etc. 3) A Pope is not a dictator as many Protestants believe, but the first among equals. All Bishops have a vote, but the Pope has the final say.
@hockeyrulesus Early church records? Internal generated copies of claimed records from the same institution claming absolute power is proof of nothing, futher more the bible nore history support this claim. There is no chance peter wouldn't have mentioned something so vital to the church once much less any of the apostles.12 apostles not one hand chosen by Christ to start the church with SPECIAL POWER to show they had that authority. Jesus chose the apostles man chose the pope!
@PhalanxPerception Internal generated copies? The original carbon dated/authenticated writings of the Early Church can be studied by anyone that wants to. If you research them, you will find most credible Protestant Theologians hold these writings to be authentic writings of the Early Church. That being said, the Early writings combined with the various Bible passages tell us Christ designed the Church to be hierarchical, with various offices. Read 1 Tim.
@hockeyrulesus So let me get this straight the bible plus your own traditions added to it equal your traditions? By that logic the bible plus anyons own wrightings would equal anything you wanted it to. The cart before the horse. Scripture is a record of the special revelation the apostles received. No pope has been hand picked by CHRIST and granted speial authority and power to back it up. This is how people back then new the apostles were real agents and not frauds. The pope is mans invention.
@PhalanxPerception The deposit of Faith the Apostles left us was both written and oral, (2Thess2:15) "Therefor, brethren, stand fast and hold the 'Traditions' which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or our epistle." Not any ones writings, but men like, Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of St John for 4 decades, a most trust worthy source...more so then, say, Martin Luther. Apostolic Succession is a Biblical fact, so, one can argue the Primacy of Peter, but not that Peter had a successor.
@hockeyrulesus This gets old but the only way the Roman catholic church has any authority is by its own claim. History and the bible most definitely do not support the idea or practice. In fact your earliest claimed writings are 100 of years after the fact. There is no need for a pope etc.. We have the word of God and the Holy Spirit to guide. If the pope is equal with scripture why not put his words in the bible?????????????????? You know why.
1) Not everyone that reads the Bible is guided to truth, this can be seen by the 35,000 non Catholic denominations, all with various beliefs, some say Baptism brings the Holy Spirit(Anglicans), some not. Some say Baptize babies(Presbyterians), some not, Some say salvation can be lost (Calvinists) some not,etc,etc, and this is why Christ founded a Church that doesn't waver on any doctrines. 2) The Bishop of Rome's primacy is found as early as the 80AD.
@hockeyrulesus Scripture was God breathed thats why popes dont add there words to the bible, so please dont try to claim you provided the bible, all that scripture was well circulated long before you. What we do know that is historical is the DARK AGES brought to us by the RCC when they tried to destroy the bible and keep mit latain so know but clergy could read it, this is where your power sprang from, but you caint overcome the Spirit of God, now the truth is out
@hockeyrulesus The RCC has dogmas declared than tries to streach scripture by long elaborate explinations of explinations in order to unite the conflicting teachings. Thats why you teach out of a catechism instead of a bible, and I know this for a fact, If you taught out of a bible even children would see quickly the contraditions so you indoctrinate them young until the practic a blind faith in the church rather than in God through Christ the ROCK
@PhalanxPerception If this was true, why is it that all Catholic Doctrine can be found in the earliest of Christian writings, way before a Catechism, even before the Catholic Church decided what the NT Canon should contain. I, as any knowledgeable Catholic can find Catholic doctrine with a Bible alone. When we quote the Church Fathers, it is to show these beliefs have been unchanged for 2000yrs, and the contrary only since the reformation.
@hockeyrulesus Scripture was around and circulated from the beginning and the RCC contains stuff that has been rejected by many based on what we know is from the apostles. Bul, you wont find much of catholic doctrine in the bible unless you place the cart before the horse kind of like evolutionist do, they believe in evolution first then point to fossils as proof just as catholics make dogmas contrary to scripture than try and reframe clear sacripture to allow there folly.
@hockeyrulesus What the apostles said is now written scripture and considered the WORD OF GOD, they gave special revelation and it was authoritative and infallible and backed by instant authenticated and miraculous signs, they were hand picked by Christ not men and there is no reason to assume this office now exist in one man who shares none of this. Can you show me scripture where any apostle takes on the title of Holy Father? or claims ultimate authority? or prays to any other than God?
@PhalanxPerception The Bible is clear, that part of the Apostles picked other worthy men to be Bishops, Presbyters(Priests), and Deacons, with the laying on of hands. This laying on of hands begins with an Apostle, and continues to the present day. Paul tells us that the Bible is not the only source of TRUTH, but also the Church, (1Tim 3:15) "know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the HOUSE OF GOD, which is the CHURCH of the living God, the PILLAR and GROUND of the TRUTH"
@hockeyrulesus The bible is the blueprint, it is the recorded revelation of the apostles appointed by Christ in person, not dogmas latter added by power hungry self apointed men who were many times not even clergy. Your wasting your time i have been there done that and I am sick to my stomach of the error taught by the RCC. I pray they will see soon.
Peter was one of twelve, Judas dies, the apostles try to draw lots for a replacement,we never hear from this new apostle but Jesus hand picks Paul just as he did the first 12. This shows 2 things they didn't believe they had the authority to choose, so they drew lots and left it in Gods hands, second Jesus hand picked a replacement. The bible says in revelations there are 12 not 13? Looks like the apostles were to start the church and scripture records there deposit, Why a pope?
@PhalanxPerception Are you saying, that when the word of God says, "And Matthias was numbered among the 12." They made a mistake in the wording?
As far as Paul, we don't know at what point he was considered 1 of the 12 by the others, maybe after James was beheaded in Jerusalem, Bible doesn't say.
Why a Pope? Because there needs to be someone to settle disputes in the Church as Peter did at the counsel of Jerusalem, after Peter spoke,"all the multitude held their peace:" (Acts15:12).
@hockeyrulesus Paul rebukes peter in galationans 2. This could be reason to say that peter was not in charge. But it does't matter no one was in charge. When peter spoke in acts 15, He spoke with the Holly Spirit. The Holy Spirit canvicted people. didn't force them as popes have done in the dark ages. So every one held their peace. BUT PAUL REBUKES PETE IN DALATINS 2. No one was in charge. The Holy spirit was. And I listen to no man the Holy Spirit which I can test with Scripture.
@hockeyrulesus Im saying we dont hear about this apostle any more and that Christ hand picked Paul not Matthias and revelations, written after the fact, says there are 12 names on the foundation and Christ is the corner stone! Nothing more nothing less! I don't speak where the bible is silent, thats for catholics to do. As for setteling disputes any apostle could do that and Paul even lined out Peter so this alone destroies your claim. Also dont equate a regional dispute with GLOBAL CHURCH!
1 Cor 3:11 For no one can lay any FOUNDATION other than the one already laid, which is JESUS CHRIST. Isaiah 44:8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and fortell it long ago? You are my witneses. Is there any God besides me? NO, there is no other ROCK; I know not one. Acts 4:11 HE is the STONE you builders rejected, which has become the CAPSTONE. Now that we know who the Rock is, who's the church? Well its no institution, its ALL who believe on that Rock, CHRIST! not Peter.
Conspiracies. These clowns must admit how rhetorical their making of tin foil hat is. First they accuse us of worshiping a priest for merely saying "father". 1 Corinthians 4:14-15. Gullible, puppy straw man! Then they go on to say that relics and statues is automatic idolatry. ABSURD. Haven't you been using statues of heroes and basketball players in them buildings?
Like I said, I don't always need to quote bible passages itself which are numerous that where statues are used:
The bible says that Jesus spoke with authority, that he had authority. And the bible says that the phareesees did not have the same authority. SO YOU CAN BE IN A POSITION OF AUTHORITY BUT YOU CAN BE ON SATANS SIDE. The new testament we are spiritual suns of habraham we are spiritual, The Holy Spirit is the only authority. This was transmitted spiritually to the pure in heart, not to the persecuting Catholics.
@medusa210562 Yes, but Jesus gave His authority to the Ministers of the Church, Jesus said "He who hears you hears me" and " He who's sins you forgive they are forgiven them, and who's ever sins you retain they are retained". He establishes His Church with authority, as you quoted part of it before, "talk to your brother and if he doesn't listen to you go back with two or three witnesses " it goes on to say, " if he doesn't hear them tell it to the Church" that is, to the ministers of it.
@hockeyrulesus Jesus gave this authority to Ministers. This authority is held today by true ministers of Christ in every denomination, Including Catholics. But only God knoes who this ministers are. He can read the hearts. This succession Has nothing to do with an organization that by its very nature would like to IMPOSE. The devil imposes himself Christ influences and compells.
@medusa210562 No one is innocent of persecution, Catholics persecuted non Catholics, and Protestants persecuted Catholic's, and these practices are still prevalent in countries like Ireland and Scotland. Also, our Catholic and Orthodox brothers and sisters are still being persecuted in the Middle East, in Iraq, Egypt, etc,etc. Catholics were feed to the lions in the Colosseum for centuries, and the Muslims killed pilgrims to the Holy Land prompting the Crusades, so your point is null and void.
@hockeyrulesus You are right my brother/sister. No one is innocant of persecution. I am a sinner myselve. I don't judge popes as individuals. BUT there is an organization that declares it selve infallible, And I belive persecution is at the core of it's character. This is the Catholic church. Apostolic susseccion itself says. You can inverstigate the scripture and follow your concience. BUT ONLY TO A POINT. TO THE POINT WHEN WE SAY TO YOU; WE ARE ABOVE THE SCRIPTURE HERE.
@medusa210562 The infallibility of the Pope, means, the Holy Spirit protects the Pope from error, on matters of Faith and Morals ONLY. Protestants claim they are guided to truth by the Holy Spirit when they are interpreting Scripture. In a way they are all Pope's, but Catholic's can't have one. Nice!
@hockeyrulesus My conscience cannot be lead by another human, the pope. I have to understand the bible by myself. And I personally people will interpred well if they are Honest. I cannot have onother human tell me what to believe.
@medusa210562 But you are being lead. You are giving me the same propaganda, other Protestants learned from Luther, Calvin, and the other Reformers. These are all later inventions....New Doctrines... that can not be found in any writings for the first 1500 years of Christianity. I was an ex Protestant and I made it my mission to read what the first Christians were writing and it's not Sola Scriptura, or Sola Fida.....they were Catholic. Go to the Catacombs and see for yourself.
@hockeyrulesus Think about the word limbo, is enogh to leave the catholic church. Or the omission of the second comadament and change of the forth. and the dividing in two of the last one. Flaggilation. indulgences even in form of money in the past. Yes some catholics are saved christian, in ignorance. My grand mother was a good catholic. she was paralized by stroke the last year of her life, she could just move a little, she was praying every second. as she did all her live. a St
@medusa210562 There is no omission of the second commandment, the First commandment is "I am the LORD thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,...." The Protestants spit the first to forbid any graven images. The Jews received the 10 commandments and they also number them different, but combine "No God's before me" & "No graven images" as one commandment, Protestants, split this. You are learning Protestant Propaganda. Look up the Jewish 10.
@hockeyrulesus I have looked up the jewish 10 as you tald me to do and I was a list of 3 version. To tell you the trueth I have never sin the protestant list as you pointed out the me. My list was more like the jewsh list. I believe this to be the most important most sereous topic. There are 10 comadaments as in Exodus 20. Forget jewish, or protestants. I believe the Catholic church has committed the gravest of sins by medling with this comandaments. for very obvious and deceit.
@hockeyrulesus I believe the Catholic church has committed the gravest of sins by medling with this comandaments. for very obvious and deceitfull reasons. the second was omitted because of saint worship. And don't tell me it is not worship, I was a catholic. I have seen with my eyes people on bleedidng knees chanting the name of saints. I used to play the clarinet behind catholic processions in the south of Itlay. (the dark ages) They have splip the 10th TO MAKE UP FOR THE OMISSI
@hockeyrulesus When I was 12 I tald the prist I did not agree with him telling me to say 4 hail marys and 5 hail marys to make up for the severity of sins I had commited. I told the priest should not be quantity of pennance. As I grew older I learned that in the dark ages even monery was given for indugence. I was a protestatn even before I ever met a protestant. I was the most fervent religious boy in my sabburb since I was young. I loved and love Jesus.
@medusa210562 The Bible tells us we have a soul, in countless passages, and my favorite passage to show lost souls that the Saints are alive and hear us is, (Mark 9:3) "And there appeared to them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus." There is more proof that the human soul lives on, then there is life on Mars.lol. I've had my own experiences with departed souls, so I find this most amusing.
@hockeyrulesus I believe in the full context of the all bible there is no soul "apart from the body" watch the youtube videos Does man have an immortal soul? by gucw1. Elias and Moses? Read john 3:13 see if you can make sense of it in the context of elias and moses. I have been studing this for 35 years.
Apostolic succesion as explained by the Catholic church says: "you can read the screptures to test the Spirit, But this is not valid when it comes to us" "you just have to obey us" DICTATORSHIP
@medusa210562 A Pope is not a dictator as many Protestants believe, but the first among equals. All Bishops have a vote, but the Pope has the final say, as Peter did at the counsel of Jerusalem, after Peter spoke,"all the multitude held their peace:" (Acts15:12).
@hockeyrulesus The pope is a good man as far as I am concerned. The papacy as an organization killed millions, would like to tell people what they should believe. And there is not one doctrine they have which I don't think is diabolic. Which one would you like to discuss? Limbo, purgatory, Hell, canonization of saints. The papacy cannot declare dead people saints. In the bible saints are the members of curchs. In the dark ages people payed money for indulgences. for the dead.
they made decisions about doctrine. that doctrine is not flexible to time. Does not change. Those who were persecuted by the catholic churh for 100ds of years studied and obeyed that doctrine. The first most important doctrine in the all bible I see is freedom of concience acts 17:11 I don't have to submit to anyone but God. the true church is not made of Catholics or protestants. Is made of people in every denomination, God knows who they are.
Protestant churchs (AS PAUL DID) expell members from their church that don't live as christian. Doesn' the bible say "talk to your brother and if he doesn't listen to you go back with some elders" etc etc. EXUSME THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS MILLIONS OF MEMBERS THAT DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BELIEVES. SO WHY DON''T EXPELL THEM. I WAS LIVING IN ITALY BEFORE THE MOST FORNICATIONG CONTRY IN THE WORLD SO WHY NOT EXPELL ALL OF THEM?
@medusa210562 Catholics, kneel when we pray, this is viewed by outsiders as kneeling to idols, but this is far from the truth, we are kneeling in prayer, but not to the 3D image called Statues. I've seen some denominations kneeling in prayer in front of a Bible, I know they aren't worshiping the Bible, and my Protestant brethren should know better themselves. We immortalize our heroes, the same way Americans immortalize their heroes, with paintings and statues.
@hockeyrulesus About kneeling. I was a catholic. You can talk to me, a protestant the 3rd image called statues. But you don't tell to millions of Catholics who kneel to saints untill their knees are bleeding. Americans Idolize their heroes. Like rock stars. Catholics worship their saints. I used to play the clarinet in the proseccions of saints in the south of Italy. You can put it anywhay you like it But I have seen it with my own eyes
@medusa210562 Asking someone in heaven to pray for you or help you is not worship. To march in procession is not worship either, or then to marching in a funeral would be worship, and it's not. I was fortunate enough to go to Catholic School, and learn correctly, I'm sorry you don't understand and have rebelled against Christ's Church. Real Catholic's Worship only God, our brothers and sisters in heaven (Saints) look after us. Amen.
@hockeyrulesus kneeling to saints behind prosessions untill your knees are bleeding? Look I personally believe milllions of catholics are saved Christian. I simply belive the vatican is the most evel organization on earth. I can discuss this at leath if you like to know more.
@hockeyrulesus Catholics walk hundres of Kilometers to knell to saints. And Sing, Cray Fluggillate themselves to the devotion of a saint. I know I was a catholic. Biblically saints are church memeber. There are no supersaints there is no canonization of saints. The pope cannot decide who was a sait after the saint's death. All this is worship. Worship is elevating human being above yourself spiritually. Read Acts ten twentysix
Yes, we are all saints (small s), but not all equal spiritually. Saints, have won favor with God, many of them gave their lives for God, and all Saints God has worked miracles through. This is not equal to us spiritually. There is a reason Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus and the Apostles, and not mine or your great great great Grandfather. lol
@hockeyrulesus Dead people have nothig to do with prayers. Only people who are alive can pray for each other. I don't believe in an immortal soul. Only God has immortality. People are dead complitelly dead.
@hockeyrulesus It doesn't matter in a perfect world people would not honor other people on their knees. It is olways migles eather with fear of worship. For example it was the pharrows who icouraged the people to praice Joseph so much. Read act 10:26 In revelation even an angle stops John from bowing.
20 “For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms: “‘May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,’[a] and, “‘May another take his place of leadership.
Now how can you act like that when you're contradicting the Bible in sola scriptura and copy and pasting anti-catholic rhetoric with no substance?
@BestKing56 I sent you one artical to read as you also sent one to me, so you can stow the hypocritical and childish garbage. Acts 1:20-26 are you kidding? This was about judas and peter didn't pick the next apostle, all the apostles drew straws, and futher more we never hear from the one chose, rather Jesus hand picks paul as he did the first 12. Also if your trying to set up a papal sucession hear was the first pope to be judas? Get real, but at least you are trying to use scripture now .
We were told not to build on the foundation that was already laid, wellllllllllllllll
Infant baptisim, holy water, communion, repetive prayer , prayer to the dead, statues, blessed objects, scapular, holy fatyher, papal infallibility, confession with a priest to forgive sins, purgatory, celibacy, on and on, AND WHAT DO THEY HAVE INCOMMON? none mentioned by Jesus the apostles or any scripture.
What is funny about this is even if peter was the head apostle that doesnt sugest there would be others, or why not 12 like Jesus picked in the first place. We see the apostles tried to draw lots to pick a replacement for judas, but we never hear from this new apostle, but Jesus hand picked paul and guess what we hear plenty from him. So an infallible ruler on earth representing God and speaking with Gods authority was so important that not one apostle ever thinks to mention this, RIGHT
Jesus is the ROCK, this idea is what the church was built on, he is the cornerstone, the head, the mediator, the church is the body of believers. What prof do you have that peter was the first pope in roam? Give me the earliest document that supports this and also give the source IE was it a catholic etc...
@PhalanxPerception "Jesus is the ROCK", so when can put it Jesus is the spiritual rock which is away here in person until he came back visibly. But there is another type of rock, visible which means servants of servants but was given authority for visible actions: binding and losing. Peter was always named FIRST in the bible:
"Peter and the rest" - Surely Jesus cannot do this visibly since he is away in to communicate in person. They act as person cristi even the presbyters.
@BestKing56 Every argument you try to frame must rely on catholic dogmas to explane, you cant simple just give scriptual proof of the practice. How can you not see this?
@BestKing56 another type of rock, according to who? catholics? What biblical support do you have for something as simple as calling the pope holy father? just one simple question
I am writing this not to shame you but to warn you as my dear children. 15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
@BestKing56 Matt 23:9 and do not call ANYONE on earth FATHER, for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING! This is so clear only pride would stop you from reason and common sence. Caling the pope holy father is in the context Jesus is forbidding man to do, so nice try with your decption but anyony can go read acts to see your folly. You should be able to see something so simple and this alone shows how pridefull you are. Why lie to yourself?
Now, the word rock in scripture came from kepha which is the language they spoke. Paul calls Simon Peter , "capha" in 1st Corinthians 1:12, 1st Corinthians 3:22, Galatians 2:9 etc.
Now I'm gonna send you this article. However call no man father is obsolete. It wasn't even a divine name and surely the distinctions. You call your father father. Father was used in the Bible without referring to God. So, I want respond to this much more. it's rambling. I've heard it all. If you want me to go back.
@BestKing56 The language of matt was wrote in greek, unless you have historicalproof to disprove what is excepted by most biblical scholars than this is a moot point. And if it was wrote in greek then there is no reason to assume the writer couldn't convey the correct meaning
@BestKing56 I made it quite clear the context that was used by Jesus its rather dishonest to compare a paternal father to a spiritual father, and that is exactly what catholics do, you dont address the pope as holy father in a paternal way, so lets just be honest about what we are talking about. You know full well the truth and you can't defend it so you give a weak responce to try and cover up the obvious error. OR you have no idea what scripture really says?
@PhalanxPerception oh. An argument, no man is father? What about the rhetoric. Throw a little bit more misconception. and greek. It's obvious that the style arguing are of watered down anti catholic weapon which had been falsified. The same argument was used by Jimmy Akin. He later converted to Catholic and he figured he was wrong. Google, "Peter the rock by jimmy akin". Aramaic was the language used when Jesus was talking to Peter. Kephas was the word and it just mean ROCK.
hades in this context is the grave not your understanding of hell which in the greek is gehena. It was not the church that woulden't be overcome but Christ and thoes in Christ! Not some institution of men who have dedcided to become God on earth. Nothing biblical supports your view but a catachism written by men to explain away clear scriptual doctrine.
Peters confession. Christ is the messiah, Christ is the rock and cornerstone of christianity,He is the foundation that your faith is built on, not peter but his confession of who Christ is, it is that Jesus was who he claimed to be, becaus if not our faith is in vain. The church does not save, Christ does, the church is the body, the believers in this truth and Christis the head. Even the gates of hades (death) didn't over come him (not gehenna, hell) he was raised. the real greek meaning
@PhalanxPerception what you're saying is nothing more but an excuse. It was Peter who was in Rome who'd done the the election of one who had been with them. Besides, in history you're just gonna choose between YOU or Ignatius the student of paul. The reformers, Luther, calvin and joseph smith or polycarpi, clement of rome in 80 ad. The say A LOT about the catholic church. What about about John - not everything Jesus said was in scripture. Re - watch the video.
@BestKing56 peter did the eletion? REALLY what historical fact other than catholic traditions claims this? NONE FACT, the muslims do this same thing, also mormans etc... They all claim de3vine revelation but they all contradict the bible as do yo. Answer the question, why do you ignore CHRIST? I dont care for what reason, WHY?
@PhalanxPerception again stop the red herring. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth - timothy.
Early Christians interchangeably using the terms christian and catholic since there wasn't ANY distinction. The church is built by Christ. Whoever to the church listens to Christ. Despiseth the church?Despiseth also the one who sent Him.. We believe n trinity and divinity of Jesus. Don't ridiculously label us with muslims 7 centuries later.
@BestKing56 Red hering is correct! Thats what you're doing, you're replacing believers, as defined in the bible, with a man made INSTATUTION, you're redeffining what the church is than claiming authority based on a tradition that is not supported by scripture. You are trying to make the institution the church instead of the believers who make up the body of Christ. Then you claim a manas head on earth when the bible clearly says Christ is the head. You follow a tradition not scripture.
@PhalanxPerception Then again John said that scripture is not everything and that the Bible said to stead fast hold to traditions. I can cover this all but I won't grow seriously with. You mistook rock with little pebble. What you're doing is putting yourself in the Bible and define a teaching fallibly using what others prefer. This is sola scriptura and where is it in the Bible. And it's not normative condition to all. Millions of protestant popes = arriving to multiple different conclusions.
@BestKing56 The big flaw in your argument is this: I follow scripture and in no way contradict it, you do. We can argue all day what is is, but I see clear scripture that says call no man father, you ignore. I see the clear distinction between peters function and christ, you dont. Scripture says one mediator you ignore. The problem is not tradition, its when your traditions contradict scripture and you choose your traditions. Also, I didn't mistake anything, go study the greek, its fact..
@BestKing56 Bill clinton used your argument also. What is is. You want to play games of interpretation when the meaning and contextis clear. The bible says there is one God, I dont need a priest to explain this, its clear. Jesus said call no man father, I noticed you ignor a responce to this, Jesus is clear and the context is clear. No means no not maybe sometimes depends. Do not enter, danger, common sence meaning is no dogma just following clear truth. That is why you need catechism!
@BestKing56 I'm not labeling you with muslims ect... I am pointing out how they all claim the bible is Gods word but they also have traditions that contradict Gods word, I dont care what degree of difference there may be. A little yeast ruins the whole loaf, yes many catholic beliefs are biblical and supported by the bible and many contridict whats in the bible, and theirs the rub. Its easy for you to see muslims are false yet you are blind of your own errors? The bible doesn't agree with you
@PhalanxPerception all of the doctrines if worthy enough and the dogmas are biblical. Now, the muslims claims koran NOT Bible. But protestantism don't have binding authority that defines which rule of faith is binding ALSO to all. I suppose this is how weak your tactic is or psychology. Switch, allegation, contradictions, and mistook definitive doctrines of the Church. I can then understand I have the upper hand.
@BestKing56 Muslims do in fact believe in the bible, that is the part they choose, just as you do. Dogmas of the roman catholic faith are traditions of men, the jews did this when Jesus was here also. They believed in there traditions and ignored Christ, just as you follow your pope and dogmas even though scripture is in conflict with it. One is not correct, either catholic dogma is wrong or scripture, but there is no way they support eachother.
@PhalanxPerception then you insult me on what I believe. But I believe that you are sincere and respect how you merely defend you idea and don't think you're pure anti-catholic. Though I would say you're could also be sincerely wrong on your part. But consider the kid's post:
1Tim 3:1-5:22, Church is the pillar and foundation of truth
Acts 1:20-26, Peter was replaced in that primacy. No one sits till there.
Peter practiced such authority and primacy AND further pass it to select one:
@BestKing56 I dont insult you? You are free to belive who you believe, it is no insult to me or you. The only insult is to Christ, if he died and paid the price for our transgressions and we refuse his gift by replacing grace with works than I say you have cheep grace. As for catholic bashing, challanging a belief doesnt equil hate to a person. I will always trust God and when a teaching conflicts with Gods word I will always follow God before a man. Its that simple. Who will you follow?
@PhalanxPerception you are still confuse. We believe that the Church is pillar and foundation of authority in which Christ biblicaly appoints His own power. Whoever despise them despise Him and the one that sent them.. As the Father sent Christ so he sent the apostles. We can see bit by bit that you're just trying to confuse this with "bashing" but when we look Grace actually ACTS through cooperation on men and not to interpret as Christ NOT paying. The grace being magnified through the Church.
@BestKing56 Right! you believe the church(mans view, catechism) is the pillar and foundation! I believe what the BIBLE says, that Christ is the FOUNDATION, IMMOVABLE ROCK with all authority. Lets agree to dissagree. You keep quoting cathoic doctrine, give clear scripture if you want to convince me, OK. Have a wondrful CHRISTMAS
@PhalanxPerception merry christmass... you are very confused. the authority that comes from the church was clearly given to men. The authority of the Church came from Christ. It is not in our human witt to develop this kind of power. God exercises this to make clear that visible communion is necessary. Others are joined to church through spiritual communion though not to interpret as external and invisible. If a simple act of contrition is possible, then God does so through the Church's graces.
@BestKing56 Like I said, if you want to convince me give me scripture not catholic dogma. Until then I will follow the clear teachings of Christ not the many added intrepertations of men over the years. The Jews tried to use this same aproach when Christ came, they thought there man made traditions were above Jesus, they thought the church had the authority and this mistake cost them. Dont follow men, follow God and his clear word, dont add to or take away what is clear.
But then again, that suffering is only NOT cheap if you are crucified with Christ (in at least figural manner). But Peter was in Rome and was crucified in Rome upside down that, with no regards he said that he is no worth dying in the same way as Christ. You pay and lawn the yard after you get forgiven. David, forgiven in his adultery was still being punished. Read the Bible and notice how cheap your protestant doctrines becomes and also the apocrypha
Do, that blanket again that, suppose all of us there got hit by 2 planes in the building. After all of us died, everyone was all of a sudden in ultimate God's presence:
criminals, rapist, sexists, racists, to those who are sanctified withing the Church. This even put you into guilt of denying purgatory! Your Martin Luther REMOVED freaking many books in the original canon! What makes your protestant church the true church when there's 38 k pro denominations and one Roman Catholic? ~
@BestKing56 Purgatory is nothing but a slap in the face to Christ sacrifice. His death and pain is not enough for your sins even though he said it is finished, yet a few our fathers and 10 hail marys is. You must be joking?
@PhalanxPerception you got it wrong. Purgatory is God's place that created of His mercy. It was a place if joy as each soul renders purification and finally goes up heaven. Every biblical books about purgatory was REMOVED by reformation and Martin Luther in the case of adding "alone" in romans to further indoctrinate invented heresy.
Are you quoting once and for all in contrast to Eucharist? Of course, Mass it is not a Resacrifice in the same way Trinity is not polytheism.
@BestKing56 Purgatory is an invention of man, it is not a biblical doctrine and Jesus nor the apostles ever mention it. We will never see eye to eye, I aproach from a biblical prespective while you come from a point of view that relies on doctrins of men. The problem is when the two conflict, and they do, I trust what is clearly writtenwhile you trust what a man tells you it means. If there was a purgatory than Christ died for nothing? You can't earn your way or pay your way to heaven. GRACE
@PhalanxPerception you're still in an obvious act of switching the allegation. First grace acts through cooperation of man. Grace is infused into those works, works which we naturally caused. I don't believe Christ sacrifice is a blanket on a shallow soul cause faith without works is dead says by James. Grace through faith ALONE is the man made once. I know and don't confuse it's earning your right. You do it out of love of God and grace that acts at cooperation with it.
@BestKing56 You said" Grace is infused into thoes works, works which we naturally caused" This is not from a bible man! its from a catechism! you must see the differance. Christ finished it once for all and where these sins have been forgiven there is no more sacrifice, REALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT THIS MEANS!
@PhalanxPerception but that is a misconception you're creating. The holy eucharist IS the same sacrifice. It is going back to that exact same calvary. When we define the term "substance", it means, "what it is". You can't pull out your little dictionary to define what the Church meant by that. By this case, appearance remains bread and wine but the substance changes to the whole perfect entity of God the Son. Under the microscope you'll never see that Christ has dual nature. But he is Divine.
@BestKing56 Again friend you are quoting catholic dogma! not scripture. You don't seem to understand the difference. The muslims hindus budist etc.. all do the same thing, they inturpret god through there man made traditions and writings the bible is the word of God, if anything is in conflict with it than we must return to thr original deposit, that is scripture, everything must stand its light not the other way around.
@BestKing56 Christ is the rock, not the church, he is the head the church is the body, This is biblically clear. The church is no organization rather the body of believers, the believers in what? Just what peter confessed thatg Christ is who he claims to be and did just what He only could do,thats why there is no other meiator between God and man, not a church, pope, mary, saint etc.. or any one or thing else. Peter is not the rock Christ is.
2 In the Bible he's the first one to practice primacy
3 built the Church in rome, converts 30, 000
4 Later replaced in position
5 "apostolic ministry" was well quoted in Acts.
Pure and simple fact. No mediator but Christ, but there is the Church which he decides to incorporate His power. Finally your own basis is yourself - no church, not even Christ.
@BestKing56 Peter hadno more authority then any other apostle. He never claims to nore does he practice primacy. built the church in roam? is that in the bible? No thats another catholic tradition. Later replaced in position? really, according to who? catholic tradition. The apostles were hand chosen and there is no evidence this was to go beyond this and no reasson to assume there would be only one and not 12 if it did. My basis is scripture not me, nice try. I follow God not you or a pope
@BestKing56 The word says one mediator between God and man, CHRIST. See this is what the word of God says, I believe God, you believe he really didn't mean this because catholic traditions says something different than what you full well know Gods word says. You are the one doing as you pleas, I am trusting God means just what He says. You just keep quoting catholic dogma, evey mormans have there own dogma and traditions and they will tell you they are right. Bottom line neither follow the bible
@BestKing56 So u understand. When you give me an explination for your traditions u quote the catechism not the bible. The reason u need to do this is simply because you cant show your traditions using the bible,instead you must make elaborate explination defending elaborate explination about explinations that contradict scripture in context. The apostles were hand chose by Christ to reveal the faith, no where is there a hint this is to be added to
@BestKing56 No I don't ignore this, this was an apostle speaking not you or the pope! It was a conversation dealing with the original deposit not something to be added hundreds of years later. See the one speaking was chose by Christ not men, he had power to show his authority also, the pope nor you do. The apostles were eye witness and chosen and taught by Christ to establish the church. The traditions were establishe and recorded in scripture, no need to add or ignore what we know is GODS WORD
Again Ignatius was taught by paul who was close to Christ and had been with Christ. Those people are the up most credentials not you, nor the reformers. The church says this therefore it's that... create more misconceptions.
"Do ye all follow the bishop, as Jesus Christ doth the Father; and follow the presbyters as the apostles; and have respect unto the deacons as unto the commandment of God. Let no one, apart from the bishop, do any of the things that appertain unto the church. Let that eucharist alone be considered valid which is celebrated in the presence of the bishop, or of him to whom he shall have entrusted it." ~ ignatius
8:2 Wherever the bishop appear, there let the multitude be; even as wherever Christ Jesus is, there is the Catholic Church. - Ignatius.
That my there is historical piece from student of apostles. The terms Catholic and Christianity was used INTERCHANGEABLY as there was really no distinction by the time and it came from Antioch which is origin. Now I won't read your other comments. They came from your mouth no God.
@BestKing56 once again thankyou for quoting catholics on catholic dogma? You just are blind. Let me make this simple, if any church is teaching something contrary to know scripture then we must follow what we know is from God. If your traditions conflict scripture and you choose to follow traditions rather than God then you will find your self opposed to God and in the same condition Jesus found the church of that day(jews
) and they did what to Jesus? because they followed men and not God.
@BestKing56 you are speaking traditions and legend not historical or biblical fact. If an apostle or and angle from heaven comes with another gosple other than what we have already taught may they be condemend. WHY DO YOU DO WHAT JESUS SAID CLEARLY NOT TO DO? no games, why? dont quote tradition, explain why you do what you are told not to do. You only deceive yourself, not me.
@BestKing56 One final thing. Jesus says in scripture not to address a man on earth as father, He says because we have but one father in heaven. The context is clear, Jesus is refuring to a spiritual title. Now we look at catholics, not onle do you call men father (in a spiritual context) but you give the ultimate title of HOLY FATHER to a man. Now ask your self, could JESUS have been an clearer here? Really think about this, if you remave your traditions and look at scripture you will see clear.
@BestKing56 Your martin luther? I dont follow a man, also using words like freaking in a biblical discusion tells much about you your motives and the spirit that guides you. .
@PhalanxPerception martin luther says to keep your faith SOLA FIDE up high but KEEP committing mortal sin. A faith that is blanket on shallow pond. But the Bible says that even though you have faith that can move mountains, if you have no love/ charity then you're NOTHING. The rest are ABSOLUTELY undefendable!
beware of youtube user Megazordman2 who posts insluting comments on christianity on videos. Please go to his channel youtube dot com slash megazordman2 and report him 20-30 times a day until he is perma banned. Stop letting these kids get away with it.
have you self-righteous jackals sodomized your followers' boys today yet ?? LOL
Pedophile infested CHURCH headed by a mere mortal, pope. Look at the financial system of Vatican and you will learn Vatican is merely a front used by devils .... thus... Catholics are boy-fucking devils in robes ! LOL...
remember to threaten your church-goers to cough up money to buy PURITY BRICKS while fucking their deaf boys on the altar ok ?? LOL...
@AzerChrist [ 2 Tim 4:3-4 ] "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."
[2 Pet 2:3 ] " In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping."
Catholicism is a self-refuting lying cult. The foundational doctrines (Solas) of Protestantism is the real fulfillment of Apostolic Succession, because in the end God has sole authority, not the perverted Catholic church and it's idol worships. The emergence of Protestantism is a fresh renewal of Christianity, unfortunately Satan has also perverted Protestantism (multiple denominations), and the Catholic church is tainted Christianity.
THIS FACT! The Catholic Church has always tried to keep the European as dumb possible. An example of this hiding of truth can be seen in the coverup of the Pedophile Priest and Gays that run the Catholic Church. The Spanish Inquisition, The Crusades, WWI, and WWII, all involve the Catholic Church manipulating, lying to, stealing from, and murdering the people of Europe. WWII is nothing but the Catholic Church and Rothschild using Ashkenazi Khazars(non-Semites/Zionist) for another Crusade.
This is well stated. A lot of people remarking on this are totally off topic. If you think the church is in need of help in this area, join and try to make positive changes. What people DO within a church is not what the Church is. The doctrine, teachings, and Canon (Bible) of the Church are what matters.
@vladimirkovalsk nothing more than pure prejudice. First of all this is just a ridiculous survey. 50% gay what? 50% of protestants are gay. You are a pussy.
Once again i don't need to read nor contradict your lies. They are just that. lies.Ii do have materials to destroy you. I know a lot of seventh day adventist bullshit prophesy and i do can refute that little horn thing especially that 1 year off of their estimate. you are adding to the bible, cunt!
I don't care if the cookie monster was an apostle, the apostles NEVER, not even PETER put themselves above anyone. Homey (Christ) don't play that. Christ said, "Who is my mother?" "Who are my brothers?" why? because if you lived in that time it would be common knowledge that the GENTILES (pagans) were into that mother goddess crap, semiramis etc. He wasn't about to let them use her for their own agenda.
The pope is the anti christ. paul said the anti christ would sit in the christian church and claim to be God. daniel said the anti christ would come to power right after the roman empire would collapse and be divided. daniel also said he would kill the true christians he would try to change the sabbath day and he would call himself the equal of christ. rev 17 said the anti christ would sit in rome with the harlot church only one power matches these prophecies the pope
@5htpcure I will pass your message about gay pastors to whoever practice homosexuality which I oppose. I will merely say that CATHOLIC CHURCH WITH VATICAN'S CONSENT and DIRECTION, PROTECTED and GAVE SANCTUARY to these BOY-FUCKING Monsters, i.e. Catholic priests from world wide for decades !!
Thus, Catholic Church with Vatican on its top, is of SATAN ! and must be destroyed by GOD !! and IT WILL..... as also prophesied by Malachi. .......... Time's UP Satan !
@AzerChristians you are wrong. the catholic excommunicated these folks. Bet watch porn of atheists dressed in nun's cloth who claim to be nuns or priests. You are gullible.
The Vatican was predicted in the Bible as the city beside the hills. On that passage it states that the church that is built by God is visible. non -christians says that Christianity has no church and invisible. That was pwnd by the Bible
@5htpcure Yeah, I am as gullible as believing that Catholics and Vatican are really people-of-God too !! LOL ..
Who cares if there is a PHYSICAL building representing GOD on earth or not ? I don't. God exists in my heart, whereas Catholics, priests, cardinals and bishops etc , believe that GOD exists on the tip of their penises and they had to FUCK boys to feel the existence of GOD... LOL.... I say that they were feeling SATAN and only SATAN would want Vatican to fuck BOYS ! LOL... Bye SATAN !
@5htpcure The catholic church is full of paganism introduced by satan to destroy the christian church. the idols the worship of mary, calling the pope the substitute of christ on earth is blasphemy and is a fullfilment of anti christ in bible prophecy. there hands are covered with the blood of millions of martrys true christians who pointed out there sins. did not paul say the anti christ would sit in the christian church and call himself God just as the pope did and will do again
@AzerChristians Look at your own Churches, you Protestant hypocrite!! Go to: reformation,com, where you will find over 800 Protestant clergy Pedophiles listed, with names and dates of the news papers they were posted.
@douglasdolly It's true, Jesus needed witnesses to what Christ Did and Said, and this is why the Bible gives details to "Ordination (1 Tim 3:1,8; 5:17). The Scripture says the Apostles were to "ORDAIN" other worthy men to succeed them, (Acts 1:20)- "....And his bishopric let another take.", and as we see it for filled in (Acts 1:25-26), where Matthias takes Judas' apostolic authority. You see, if you don't have the Tradition, left by the Apostles, one gets 35,000 denominations of Protestant
@hockeyrulesus I ruther have 35.000 deniminations then a church tell married couples they cannot be intimate exept to concive. And I cannot argue with this chruch from the bible because their apostolic succession goes about my brain. and the bible.
That's funny, for we think Protestantism is from the Devil, Come out of Her!! If you read the Early Christian Writings you won't find any Protestantism, only Catholicism.....that might help you get out from your error, it did for me! lol
@hockeyrulesus What does protestantism got to do with the truth of the bible. Your so far from the truth. I cant waste my time on someone who doesnt believe the bible is the word of God!! Your home is rome.
@douglasdolly "What does Protestantism got to do with it?" It has everything to do with it!
It all comes down to interpretation of the Scriptures, and Protestant Interpretations of Scripture comes from the Reformers, Catholic Interpretation comes from the Apostles, from 2000 years of the history of the Church. That's What!!
@hockeyrulesus Catholic Interpretation comes from the Apostles, based on what? There is no evidence the roman catholic church has the so called right interpretation of scripture. There is no evidence there is even to be a succession of popes, much less one . Let me cut to the chase Matt 23 8-12 This is Jesus talking, He says not to call any man on earth father and this is not in the parental context, but teacher. Roman catholics have the arrogance to call a man HOLY FATHER! Gods title alone!
@PhalanxPerception Based on the writings of the Apostolic Fathers, men that even Protestant theologians agree were disciples of the Apostles. Men like Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, Polycarp, etc,etc. Catholic Interpretation are from these men. If you read them, you'll find that they were indeed Catholic. No new inventions as the Propagandists claim.
@hockeyrulesus Catholic Interpretation comes from the Apostles, based on what? There is no evidence the roman catholic church has the so called right interpretation of scripture. There is no evidence there is even to be a succession of popes, much less one . Let me cut to the chase Matt 23 8-12 This is Jesus talking, He says not to call any man on earth father and this is not in the parental context, but teacher. Roman catholics have the arrogance to call a man HOLY FATHER! Gods title alone!
@hockeyrulesus But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ. The greatest among you will be your servant. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
@hockeyrulesus The apostles were chosen by Jesus not men, they were taught by Jesus. The apostles were given the power to preform signs and wonders to show they had the authority and to established the faith and its teachings. The RCC wants to claim that same authority and lay new foundations. Modern day popes are selected by men and have no authority other then what men give them, they just take a title reserved for God alone and give it to themselves. DISGUSTING! No mention of popes in bible.
@hockeyrulesus The Church Christ founded is Hierarchical. What are you talking about? Christ is the head of the church, He alone is the rock, the chief cornerstone, not a man IE the pope. Please address Matt 23 8-12 you can twist scripture any way you want but this is crystal clear. I have faith in the word of God not the word of men. The roman catholic church has fallen away, they have let error slip into there doctrine, they place there authority above Gods word.
@hockeyrulesus Even if peter was the head apostle there is nothing to suggest there is some kind of linage giving a single man what was shared by all apostles. Also read Galatians 1 6-9 even if an apostle or an angle from heaven brings another gospel he is cursed by God! So you must deal with this before you ever try to claim you have the authority in the first place.
@PhalanxPerception you were the one that should deal with that because of false doctrines of protestantism known as: cheap grace, eternal security, symbolic baptism, symbolic Eucharist. We will never deal with it. Who claims the church is invisible and non authoritative where's every biblical sources was against it. If the Church is invisible, then Christ wouldn't need to give any power at all but keep to himself in heaven, BUT he gave it AND Peter was in rome with succession and primacy!
@BestKing56 Why do I need to deal with cheap grace? eternal security? symbolic baptism? symbolic euchrist? I don't need to defend Gods word, what I believe is not in conflict with it.
@hockeyrulesus The apostolic age ended with the apostles, there is no indication otherwise, and no early church father claimed such a linage till later, that was when roam the center of political world at time claimed such and then the internal writings began to support the pope, not the apostles or first century. Any way you must deal with scripture conflict before we can even debate the popes so called authority.
@hockeyrulesus You want to believe peter , petros, is the rock and not Christ , petra. Christ is the head of the church, this is clear all through scripture, not a man, and certainly not a man that is teaching traditions that conflict with clear biblical teachings, and using a title that is reserved alone for God, Holy Father, this is down right blasphemous!, and Jesus himself says not to do it!!!!!!!! YOu must ignore this no matter what you believe!
@hockeyrulesus You want to believe peter , petros, is the rock and not Christ , petra. Christ is the head of the church, this is clear all through scripture, not a man, and certainly not a man that is teaching traditions that conflict with clear biblical teachings, and using a title that is reserved alone for God, Holy Father, this is down right blasphemous!, and Jesus himself says not to do it!!!!!!!! YOu must ignore this no matter what you believe!
@PhalanxPerception yep. you must consider that semantics. no where in the Bible does it mean "little pebble". It just mean ROCK. Ask yourself the question: Would Christ give tremendous authority to bind and lose an the keys to a mere pebble that's equal to those joseph smiths and martin luthers?, if the church is had been invisible???
NO! If God wants a mere christianity which is invisible then he would NOT do this and is the very first practice of succession EVER!
@BestKing56 semantics? no it is the right interpretation of the greek, not samantics. One understanding makes peter the rock the other makes Jesus the rock. this is not semantics friend but gets right down to who Jesus really was. As for cheep grace? I know what Jesus did for me and there is nothing cheep about it. Don't confuse my beliefs (unknown to you) with your presumptions. Jesus is the ROCK everythig rest on wether or not he is the Son of God, this is the basis of christianity
@PhalanxPerception oh c'mon! greek not always has one dialect, there's multiple language in greek. The gospels was written in Koine greek in which your distinction is invalid. There's absolutely no distinction of rocks in this dialect. But you are the confusing and avoiding your own semantics. Christ practices his power visibly by use of men in the church. The Bible refutes before you go rambling about. It is the case that through the Holy Ghost, Peter practiced authority until he pass it down!
Peter had an important function, wether or not he was lead really doesnt matter, there were 12, and no where in scripture is there a hint Peter was bishop of roam or that he or any other apostle picked a supream leader for all the church. Sorry guys that position has been filled by CHRIST, You will need to create your own world and save it if you want to fill that position.
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception 1) There would be no mention of the Apostles picking a replacement for Peter, because Peter was still alive when the the Book of Acts was written. 2) We know by the Early Church Fathers that Peter ordained Linus as his successor, before his crucifixion. Linus ordained Clement, etc,etc. 3) A Pope is not a dictator as many Protestants believe, but the first among equals. All Bishops have a vote, but the Pope has the final say.
hockeyrulesus 4 weeks ago
@hockeyrulesus Early church records? Internal generated copies of claimed records from the same institution claming absolute power is proof of nothing, futher more the bible nore history support this claim. There is no chance peter wouldn't have mentioned something so vital to the church once much less any of the apostles.12 apostles not one hand chosen by Christ to start the church with SPECIAL POWER to show they had that authority. Jesus chose the apostles man chose the pope!
PhalanxPerception 4 weeks ago
@PhalanxPerception Internal generated copies? The original carbon dated/authenticated writings of the Early Church can be studied by anyone that wants to. If you research them, you will find most credible Protestant Theologians hold these writings to be authentic writings of the Early Church. That being said, the Early writings combined with the various Bible passages tell us Christ designed the Church to be hierarchical, with various offices. Read 1 Tim.
hockeyrulesus 4 weeks ago
@hockeyrulesus So let me get this straight the bible plus your own traditions added to it equal your traditions? By that logic the bible plus anyons own wrightings would equal anything you wanted it to. The cart before the horse. Scripture is a record of the special revelation the apostles received. No pope has been hand picked by CHRIST and granted speial authority and power to back it up. This is how people back then new the apostles were real agents and not frauds. The pope is mans invention.
PhalanxPerception 4 weeks ago
@PhalanxPerception The deposit of Faith the Apostles left us was both written and oral, (2Thess2:15) "Therefor, brethren, stand fast and hold the 'Traditions' which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or our epistle." Not any ones writings, but men like, Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of St John for 4 decades, a most trust worthy source...more so then, say, Martin Luther. Apostolic Succession is a Biblical fact, so, one can argue the Primacy of Peter, but not that Peter had a successor.
hockeyrulesus 4 weeks ago
@hockeyrulesus This gets old but the only way the Roman catholic church has any authority is by its own claim. History and the bible most definitely do not support the idea or practice. In fact your earliest claimed writings are 100 of years after the fact. There is no need for a pope etc.. We have the word of God and the Holy Spirit to guide. If the pope is equal with scripture why not put his words in the bible?????????????????? You know why.
PhalanxPerception 4 weeks ago
@PhalanxPerception
1) Not everyone that reads the Bible is guided to truth, this can be seen by the 35,000 non Catholic denominations, all with various beliefs, some say Baptism brings the Holy Spirit(Anglicans), some not. Some say Baptize babies(Presbyterians), some not, Some say salvation can be lost (Calvinists) some not,etc,etc, and this is why Christ founded a Church that doesn't waver on any doctrines. 2) The Bishop of Rome's primacy is found as early as the 80AD.
hockeyrulesus 4 weeks ago
@hockeyrulesus Scripture was God breathed thats why popes dont add there words to the bible, so please dont try to claim you provided the bible, all that scripture was well circulated long before you. What we do know that is historical is the DARK AGES brought to us by the RCC when they tried to destroy the bible and keep mit latain so know but clergy could read it, this is where your power sprang from, but you caint overcome the Spirit of God, now the truth is out
PhalanxPerception 4 weeks ago
@hockeyrulesus The RCC has dogmas declared than tries to streach scripture by long elaborate explinations of explinations in order to unite the conflicting teachings. Thats why you teach out of a catechism instead of a bible, and I know this for a fact, If you taught out of a bible even children would see quickly the contraditions so you indoctrinate them young until the practic a blind faith in the church rather than in God through Christ the ROCK
PhalanxPerception 4 weeks ago
@PhalanxPerception If this was true, why is it that all Catholic Doctrine can be found in the earliest of Christian writings, way before a Catechism, even before the Catholic Church decided what the NT Canon should contain. I, as any knowledgeable Catholic can find Catholic doctrine with a Bible alone. When we quote the Church Fathers, it is to show these beliefs have been unchanged for 2000yrs, and the contrary only since the reformation.
hockeyrulesus 4 weeks ago
@hockeyrulesus Scripture was around and circulated from the beginning and the RCC contains stuff that has been rejected by many based on what we know is from the apostles. Bul, you wont find much of catholic doctrine in the bible unless you place the cart before the horse kind of like evolutionist do, they believe in evolution first then point to fossils as proof just as catholics make dogmas contrary to scripture than try and reframe clear sacripture to allow there folly.
PhalanxPerception 4 weeks ago
@hockeyrulesus What the apostles said is now written scripture and considered the WORD OF GOD, they gave special revelation and it was authoritative and infallible and backed by instant authenticated and miraculous signs, they were hand picked by Christ not men and there is no reason to assume this office now exist in one man who shares none of this. Can you show me scripture where any apostle takes on the title of Holy Father? or claims ultimate authority? or prays to any other than God?
PhalanxPerception 4 weeks ago
@PhalanxPerception The Bible is clear, that part of the Apostles picked other worthy men to be Bishops, Presbyters(Priests), and Deacons, with the laying on of hands. This laying on of hands begins with an Apostle, and continues to the present day. Paul tells us that the Bible is not the only source of TRUTH, but also the Church, (1Tim 3:15) "know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the HOUSE OF GOD, which is the CHURCH of the living God, the PILLAR and GROUND of the TRUTH"
hockeyrulesus 4 weeks ago
@hockeyrulesus This laying on of hands begins with an Apostle, and continues to the present day
really? based on what scriptur does this continue?
PhalanxPerception 4 weeks ago
@hockeyrulesus The bible is the blueprint, it is the recorded revelation of the apostles appointed by Christ in person, not dogmas latter added by power hungry self apointed men who were many times not even clergy. Your wasting your time i have been there done that and I am sick to my stomach of the error taught by the RCC. I pray they will see soon.
PhalanxPerception 4 weeks ago
Peter was one of twelve, Judas dies, the apostles try to draw lots for a replacement,we never hear from this new apostle but Jesus hand picks Paul just as he did the first 12. This shows 2 things they didn't believe they had the authority to choose, so they drew lots and left it in Gods hands, second Jesus hand picked a replacement. The bible says in revelations there are 12 not 13? Looks like the apostles were to start the church and scripture records there deposit, Why a pope?
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception Are you saying, that when the word of God says, "And Matthias was numbered among the 12." They made a mistake in the wording?
As far as Paul, we don't know at what point he was considered 1 of the 12 by the others, maybe after James was beheaded in Jerusalem, Bible doesn't say.
Why a Pope? Because there needs to be someone to settle disputes in the Church as Peter did at the counsel of Jerusalem, after Peter spoke,"all the multitude held their peace:" (Acts15:12).
hockeyrulesus 4 weeks ago
@hockeyrulesus Paul rebukes peter in galationans 2. This could be reason to say that peter was not in charge. But it does't matter no one was in charge. When peter spoke in acts 15, He spoke with the Holly Spirit. The Holy Spirit canvicted people. didn't force them as popes have done in the dark ages. So every one held their peace. BUT PAUL REBUKES PETE IN DALATINS 2. No one was in charge. The Holy spirit was. And I listen to no man the Holy Spirit which I can test with Scripture.
medusa210562 4 weeks ago
@hockeyrulesus And I listen to no man the Holy Spirit which I can test with Scripture. Acts 17:11
medusa210562 4 weeks ago
@hockeyrulesus Im saying we dont hear about this apostle any more and that Christ hand picked Paul not Matthias and revelations, written after the fact, says there are 12 names on the foundation and Christ is the corner stone! Nothing more nothing less! I don't speak where the bible is silent, thats for catholics to do. As for setteling disputes any apostle could do that and Paul even lined out Peter so this alone destroies your claim. Also dont equate a regional dispute with GLOBAL CHURCH!
PhalanxPerception 4 weeks ago
1 Cor 3:11 For no one can lay any FOUNDATION other than the one already laid, which is JESUS CHRIST. Isaiah 44:8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and fortell it long ago? You are my witneses. Is there any God besides me? NO, there is no other ROCK; I know not one. Acts 4:11 HE is the STONE you builders rejected, which has become the CAPSTONE. Now that we know who the Rock is, who's the church? Well its no institution, its ALL who believe on that Rock, CHRIST! not Peter.
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
PUPPY EATEN ALLEGATION TYPES!
BestKing56 1 month ago
Conspiracies. These clowns must admit how rhetorical their making of tin foil hat is. First they accuse us of worshiping a priest for merely saying "father". 1 Corinthians 4:14-15. Gullible, puppy straw man! Then they go on to say that relics and statues is automatic idolatry. ABSURD. Haven't you been using statues of heroes and basketball players in them buildings?
Like I said, I don't always need to quote bible passages itself which are numerous that where statues are used:
1 Kings 6:23-29
BestKing56 1 month ago
The bible says that Jesus spoke with authority, that he had authority. And the bible says that the phareesees did not have the same authority. SO YOU CAN BE IN A POSITION OF AUTHORITY BUT YOU CAN BE ON SATANS SIDE. The new testament we are spiritual suns of habraham we are spiritual, The Holy Spirit is the only authority. This was transmitted spiritually to the pure in heart, not to the persecuting Catholics.
medusa210562 1 month ago
@medusa210562 Yes, but Jesus gave His authority to the Ministers of the Church, Jesus said "He who hears you hears me" and " He who's sins you forgive they are forgiven them, and who's ever sins you retain they are retained". He establishes His Church with authority, as you quoted part of it before, "talk to your brother and if he doesn't listen to you go back with two or three witnesses " it goes on to say, " if he doesn't hear them tell it to the Church" that is, to the ministers of it.
hockeyrulesus 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus Jesus gave this authority to Ministers. This authority is held today by true ministers of Christ in every denomination, Including Catholics. But only God knoes who this ministers are. He can read the hearts. This succession Has nothing to do with an organization that by its very nature would like to IMPOSE. The devil imposes himself Christ influences and compells.
medusa210562 1 month ago
@medusa210562 No one is innocent of persecution, Catholics persecuted non Catholics, and Protestants persecuted Catholic's, and these practices are still prevalent in countries like Ireland and Scotland. Also, our Catholic and Orthodox brothers and sisters are still being persecuted in the Middle East, in Iraq, Egypt, etc,etc. Catholics were feed to the lions in the Colosseum for centuries, and the Muslims killed pilgrims to the Holy Land prompting the Crusades, so your point is null and void.
hockeyrulesus 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus You are right my brother/sister. No one is innocant of persecution. I am a sinner myselve. I don't judge popes as individuals. BUT there is an organization that declares it selve infallible, And I belive persecution is at the core of it's character. This is the Catholic church. Apostolic susseccion itself says. You can inverstigate the scripture and follow your concience. BUT ONLY TO A POINT. TO THE POINT WHEN WE SAY TO YOU; WE ARE ABOVE THE SCRIPTURE HERE.
medusa210562 1 month ago
@medusa210562 The infallibility of the Pope, means, the Holy Spirit protects the Pope from error, on matters of Faith and Morals ONLY. Protestants claim they are guided to truth by the Holy Spirit when they are interpreting Scripture. In a way they are all Pope's, but Catholic's can't have one. Nice!
hockeyrulesus 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus My conscience cannot be lead by another human, the pope. I have to understand the bible by myself. And I personally people will interpred well if they are Honest. I cannot have onother human tell me what to believe.
medusa210562 1 month ago
@medusa210562 But you are being lead. You are giving me the same propaganda, other Protestants learned from Luther, Calvin, and the other Reformers. These are all later inventions....New Doctrines... that can not be found in any writings for the first 1500 years of Christianity. I was an ex Protestant and I made it my mission to read what the first Christians were writing and it's not Sola Scriptura, or Sola Fida.....they were Catholic. Go to the Catacombs and see for yourself.
hockeyrulesus 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus Sola scriptura, I know the church was corrupted very very early. Watch the videos "apostolic succesion part 1to4" by shammahbn
medusa210562 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus Think about the word limbo, is enogh to leave the catholic church. Or the omission of the second comadament and change of the forth. and the dividing in two of the last one. Flaggilation. indulgences even in form of money in the past. Yes some catholics are saved christian, in ignorance. My grand mother was a good catholic. she was paralized by stroke the last year of her life, she could just move a little, she was praying every second. as she did all her live. a St
medusa210562 1 month ago
@medusa210562 There is no omission of the second commandment, the First commandment is "I am the LORD thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,...." The Protestants spit the first to forbid any graven images. The Jews received the 10 commandments and they also number them different, but combine "No God's before me" & "No graven images" as one commandment, Protestants, split this. You are learning Protestant Propaganda. Look up the Jewish 10.
hockeyrulesus 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus I have looked up the jewish 10 as you tald me to do and I was a list of 3 version. To tell you the trueth I have never sin the protestant list as you pointed out the me. My list was more like the jewsh list. I believe this to be the most important most sereous topic. There are 10 comadaments as in Exodus 20. Forget jewish, or protestants. I believe the Catholic church has committed the gravest of sins by medling with this comandaments. for very obvious and deceit.
medusa210562 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus I believe the Catholic church has committed the gravest of sins by medling with this comandaments. for very obvious and deceitfull reasons. the second was omitted because of saint worship. And don't tell me it is not worship, I was a catholic. I have seen with my eyes people on bleedidng knees chanting the name of saints. I used to play the clarinet behind catholic processions in the south of Itlay. (the dark ages) They have splip the 10th TO MAKE UP FOR THE OMISSI
medusa210562 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus They have splip the 10th TO MAKE UP FOR THE OMISSION OF ONE. Even a 6 year old child could see that. They have changed the 4th.
medusa210562 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus When I was 12 I tald the prist I did not agree with him telling me to say 4 hail marys and 5 hail marys to make up for the severity of sins I had commited. I told the priest should not be quantity of pennance. As I grew older I learned that in the dark ages even monery was given for indugence. I was a protestatn even before I ever met a protestant. I was the most fervent religious boy in my sabburb since I was young. I loved and love Jesus.
medusa210562 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus Does Man Have An Immortal Soul Part ....... by gucw1
medusa210562 1 month ago
@medusa210562 The Bible tells us we have a soul, in countless passages, and my favorite passage to show lost souls that the Saints are alive and hear us is, (Mark 9:3) "And there appeared to them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus." There is more proof that the human soul lives on, then there is life on Mars.lol. I've had my own experiences with departed souls, so I find this most amusing.
hockeyrulesus 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus I believe in the full context of the all bible there is no soul "apart from the body" watch the youtube videos Does man have an immortal soul? by gucw1. Elias and Moses? Read john 3:13 see if you can make sense of it in the context of elias and moses. I have been studing this for 35 years.
medusa210562 1 month ago
Apostolic succesion as explained by the Catholic church says: "you can read the screptures to test the Spirit, But this is not valid when it comes to us" "you just have to obey us" DICTATORSHIP
medusa210562 1 month ago
@medusa210562 A Pope is not a dictator as many Protestants believe, but the first among equals. All Bishops have a vote, but the Pope has the final say, as Peter did at the counsel of Jerusalem, after Peter spoke,"all the multitude held their peace:" (Acts15:12).
hockeyrulesus 4 weeks ago
@hockeyrulesus The pope is a good man as far as I am concerned. The papacy as an organization killed millions, would like to tell people what they should believe. And there is not one doctrine they have which I don't think is diabolic. Which one would you like to discuss? Limbo, purgatory, Hell, canonization of saints. The papacy cannot declare dead people saints. In the bible saints are the members of curchs. In the dark ages people payed money for indulgences. for the dead.
medusa210562 4 weeks ago
they made decisions about doctrine. that doctrine is not flexible to time. Does not change. Those who were persecuted by the catholic churh for 100ds of years studied and obeyed that doctrine. The first most important doctrine in the all bible I see is freedom of concience acts 17:11 I don't have to submit to anyone but God. the true church is not made of Catholics or protestants. Is made of people in every denomination, God knows who they are.
medusa210562 1 month ago
Protestant churchs (AS PAUL DID) expell members from their church that don't live as christian. Doesn' the bible say "talk to your brother and if he doesn't listen to you go back with some elders" etc etc. EXUSME THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS MILLIONS OF MEMBERS THAT DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BELIEVES. SO WHY DON''T EXPELL THEM. I WAS LIVING IN ITALY BEFORE THE MOST FORNICATIONG CONTRY IN THE WORLD SO WHY NOT EXPELL ALL OF THEM?
medusa210562 1 month ago
Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the..... Acts 16 as you read would probably be about arganizing the church.
medusa210562 1 month ago
Traditions outside of the bible cannot contradict the bible. Like kneeling to saints reat acts 10:26
medusa210562 1 month ago
@medusa210562 Catholics, kneel when we pray, this is viewed by outsiders as kneeling to idols, but this is far from the truth, we are kneeling in prayer, but not to the 3D image called Statues. I've seen some denominations kneeling in prayer in front of a Bible, I know they aren't worshiping the Bible, and my Protestant brethren should know better themselves. We immortalize our heroes, the same way Americans immortalize their heroes, with paintings and statues.
hockeyrulesus 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus About kneeling. I was a catholic. You can talk to me, a protestant the 3rd image called statues. But you don't tell to millions of Catholics who kneel to saints untill their knees are bleeding. Americans Idolize their heroes. Like rock stars. Catholics worship their saints. I used to play the clarinet in the proseccions of saints in the south of Italy. You can put it anywhay you like it But I have seen it with my own eyes
medusa210562 1 month ago
@medusa210562 Asking someone in heaven to pray for you or help you is not worship. To march in procession is not worship either, or then to marching in a funeral would be worship, and it's not. I was fortunate enough to go to Catholic School, and learn correctly, I'm sorry you don't understand and have rebelled against Christ's Church. Real Catholic's Worship only God, our brothers and sisters in heaven (Saints) look after us. Amen.
hockeyrulesus 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus kneeling to saints behind prosessions untill your knees are bleeding? Look I personally believe milllions of catholics are saved Christian. I simply belive the vatican is the most evel organization on earth. I can discuss this at leath if you like to know more.
medusa210562 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus Im done with the clowns. I commend them for trying to create tin foiled hats and put on sponge bob's face.
Galatians 3
"Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified."
They got statue Jesus being crucified.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus Catholics walk hundres of Kilometers to knell to saints. And Sing, Cray Fluggillate themselves to the devotion of a saint. I know I was a catholic. Biblically saints are church memeber. There are no supersaints there is no canonization of saints. The pope cannot decide who was a sait after the saint's death. All this is worship. Worship is elevating human being above yourself spiritually. Read Acts ten twentysix
medusa210562 1 month ago
@medusa210562
Yes, we are all saints (small s), but not all equal spiritually. Saints, have won favor with God, many of them gave their lives for God, and all Saints God has worked miracles through. This is not equal to us spiritually. There is a reason Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus and the Apostles, and not mine or your great great great Grandfather. lol
hockeyrulesus 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus Dead people have nothig to do with prayers. Only people who are alive can pray for each other. I don't believe in an immortal soul. Only God has immortality. People are dead complitelly dead.
medusa210562 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus you can find some bible studies about the state of the dead, on both side but I don't believe dead saints are conscious.
medusa210562 1 month ago
@medusa210562 Do you need me to quote Bible passages were people are honoring other people by kneeling to them?????? What's your point?
hockeyrulesus 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus It doesn't matter in a perfect world people would not honor other people on their knees. It is olways migles eather with fear of worship. For example it was the pharrows who icouraged the people to praice Joseph so much. Read act 10:26 In revelation even an angle stops John from bowing.
medusa210562 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus please watch the video "Have You An Immortal Soul? Part - of 6" by peteramesx
medusa210562 1 month ago
ho thaks to the Catholic church we have special insight so we don't have to kiss the popes hand anymore read Act 10:26
medusa210562 1 month ago
And you've ignored Peter's chair: Acts 1:20-26
20 “For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms: “‘May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,’[a] and, “‘May another take his place of leadership.
Now how can you act like that when you're contradicting the Bible in sola scriptura and copy and pasting anti-catholic rhetoric with no substance?
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 I sent you one artical to read as you also sent one to me, so you can stow the hypocritical and childish garbage. Acts 1:20-26 are you kidding? This was about judas and peter didn't pick the next apostle, all the apostles drew straws, and futher more we never hear from the one chose, rather Jesus hand picks paul as he did the first 12. Also if your trying to set up a papal sucession hear was the first pope to be judas? Get real, but at least you are trying to use scripture now .
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
We were told not to build on the foundation that was already laid, wellllllllllllllll
Infant baptisim, holy water, communion, repetive prayer , prayer to the dead, statues, blessed objects, scapular, holy fatyher, papal infallibility, confession with a priest to forgive sins, purgatory, celibacy, on and on, AND WHAT DO THEY HAVE INCOMMON? none mentioned by Jesus the apostles or any scripture.
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
What is funny about this is even if peter was the head apostle that doesnt sugest there would be others, or why not 12 like Jesus picked in the first place. We see the apostles tried to draw lots to pick a replacement for judas, but we never hear from this new apostle, but Jesus hand picked paul and guess what we hear plenty from him. So an infallible ruler on earth representing God and speaking with Gods authority was so important that not one apostle ever thinks to mention this, RIGHT
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
Jesus is the ROCK, this idea is what the church was built on, he is the cornerstone, the head, the mediator, the church is the body of believers. What prof do you have that peter was the first pope in roam? Give me the earliest document that supports this and also give the source IE was it a catholic etc...
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception "Jesus is the ROCK", so when can put it Jesus is the spiritual rock which is away here in person until he came back visibly. But there is another type of rock, visible which means servants of servants but was given authority for visible actions: binding and losing. Peter was always named FIRST in the bible:
"Peter and the rest" - Surely Jesus cannot do this visibly since he is away in to communicate in person. They act as person cristi even the presbyters.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Again you are quotind catholic dogma and it has no scriptual bassis?
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Every argument you try to frame must rely on catholic dogmas to explane, you cant simple just give scriptual proof of the practice. How can you not see this?
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@BestKing56 another type of rock, according to who? catholics? What biblical support do you have for something as simple as calling the pope holy father? just one simple question
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception you were rambling accusing us of merely calling the pope father?
This is obvious straw man. You make up utter allegation behind that. It is obviously very silly. and petty.
1 Corinthians 4:14-15
I am writing this not to shame you but to warn you as my dear children. 15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Matt 23:9 and do not call ANYONE on earth FATHER, for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING! This is so clear only pride would stop you from reason and common sence. Caling the pope holy father is in the context Jesus is forbidding man to do, so nice try with your decption but anyony can go read acts to see your folly. You should be able to see something so simple and this alone shows how pridefull you are. Why lie to yourself?
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
Now, the word rock in scripture came from kepha which is the language they spoke. Paul calls Simon Peter , "capha" in 1st Corinthians 1:12, 1st Corinthians 3:22, Galatians 2:9 etc.
Now I'm gonna send you this article. However call no man father is obsolete. It wasn't even a divine name and surely the distinctions. You call your father father. Father was used in the Bible without referring to God. So, I want respond to this much more. it's rambling. I've heard it all. If you want me to go back.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 The language of matt was wrote in greek, unless you have historicalproof to disprove what is excepted by most biblical scholars than this is a moot point. And if it was wrote in greek then there is no reason to assume the writer couldn't convey the correct meaning
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@BestKing56 I made it quite clear the context that was used by Jesus its rather dishonest to compare a paternal father to a spiritual father, and that is exactly what catholics do, you dont address the pope as holy father in a paternal way, so lets just be honest about what we are talking about. You know full well the truth and you can't defend it so you give a weak responce to try and cover up the obvious error. OR you have no idea what scripture really says?
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception oh. An argument, no man is father? What about the rhetoric. Throw a little bit more misconception. and greek. It's obvious that the style arguing are of watered down anti catholic weapon which had been falsified. The same argument was used by Jimmy Akin. He later converted to Catholic and he figured he was wrong. Google, "Peter the rock by jimmy akin". Aramaic was the language used when Jesus was talking to Peter. Kephas was the word and it just mean ROCK.
BestKing56 1 month ago
hades in this context is the grave not your understanding of hell which in the greek is gehena. It was not the church that woulden't be overcome but Christ and thoes in Christ! Not some institution of men who have dedcided to become God on earth. Nothing biblical supports your view but a catachism written by men to explain away clear scriptual doctrine.
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
Peters confession. Christ is the messiah, Christ is the rock and cornerstone of christianity,He is the foundation that your faith is built on, not peter but his confession of who Christ is, it is that Jesus was who he claimed to be, becaus if not our faith is in vain. The church does not save, Christ does, the church is the body, the believers in this truth and Christis the head. Even the gates of hades (death) didn't over come him (not gehenna, hell) he was raised. the real greek meaning
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
I won't reply more on 3 per 1 post. very insanely rhetorical.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception what you're saying is nothing more but an excuse. It was Peter who was in Rome who'd done the the election of one who had been with them. Besides, in history you're just gonna choose between YOU or Ignatius the student of paul. The reformers, Luther, calvin and joseph smith or polycarpi, clement of rome in 80 ad. The say A LOT about the catholic church. What about about John - not everything Jesus said was in scripture. Re - watch the video.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 peter did the eletion? REALLY what historical fact other than catholic traditions claims this? NONE FACT, the muslims do this same thing, also mormans etc... They all claim de3vine revelation but they all contradict the bible as do yo. Answer the question, why do you ignore CHRIST? I dont care for what reason, WHY?
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception again stop the red herring. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth - timothy.
Early Christians interchangeably using the terms christian and catholic since there wasn't ANY distinction. The church is built by Christ. Whoever to the church listens to Christ. Despiseth the church?Despiseth also the one who sent Him.. We believe n trinity and divinity of Jesus. Don't ridiculously label us with muslims 7 centuries later.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Red hering is correct! Thats what you're doing, you're replacing believers, as defined in the bible, with a man made INSTATUTION, you're redeffining what the church is than claiming authority based on a tradition that is not supported by scripture. You are trying to make the institution the church instead of the believers who make up the body of Christ. Then you claim a manas head on earth when the bible clearly says Christ is the head. You follow a tradition not scripture.
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception Then again John said that scripture is not everything and that the Bible said to stead fast hold to traditions. I can cover this all but I won't grow seriously with. You mistook rock with little pebble. What you're doing is putting yourself in the Bible and define a teaching fallibly using what others prefer. This is sola scriptura and where is it in the Bible. And it's not normative condition to all. Millions of protestant popes = arriving to multiple different conclusions.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 The big flaw in your argument is this: I follow scripture and in no way contradict it, you do. We can argue all day what is is, but I see clear scripture that says call no man father, you ignore. I see the clear distinction between peters function and christ, you dont. Scripture says one mediator you ignore. The problem is not tradition, its when your traditions contradict scripture and you choose your traditions. Also, I didn't mistake anything, go study the greek, its fact..
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Bill clinton used your argument also. What is is. You want to play games of interpretation when the meaning and contextis clear. The bible says there is one God, I dont need a priest to explain this, its clear. Jesus said call no man father, I noticed you ignor a responce to this, Jesus is clear and the context is clear. No means no not maybe sometimes depends. Do not enter, danger, common sence meaning is no dogma just following clear truth. That is why you need catechism!
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@BestKing56 I'm not labeling you with muslims ect... I am pointing out how they all claim the bible is Gods word but they also have traditions that contradict Gods word, I dont care what degree of difference there may be. A little yeast ruins the whole loaf, yes many catholic beliefs are biblical and supported by the bible and many contridict whats in the bible, and theirs the rub. Its easy for you to see muslims are false yet you are blind of your own errors? The bible doesn't agree with you
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception all of the doctrines if worthy enough and the dogmas are biblical. Now, the muslims claims koran NOT Bible. But protestantism don't have binding authority that defines which rule of faith is binding ALSO to all. I suppose this is how weak your tactic is or psychology. Switch, allegation, contradictions, and mistook definitive doctrines of the Church. I can then understand I have the upper hand.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Muslims do in fact believe in the bible, that is the part they choose, just as you do. Dogmas of the roman catholic faith are traditions of men, the jews did this when Jesus was here also. They believed in there traditions and ignored Christ, just as you follow your pope and dogmas even though scripture is in conflict with it. One is not correct, either catholic dogma is wrong or scripture, but there is no way they support eachother.
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception then you insult me on what I believe. But I believe that you are sincere and respect how you merely defend you idea and don't think you're pure anti-catholic. Though I would say you're could also be sincerely wrong on your part. But consider the kid's post:
1Tim 3:1-5:22, Church is the pillar and foundation of truth
Acts 1:20-26, Peter was replaced in that primacy. No one sits till there.
Peter practiced such authority and primacy AND further pass it to select one:
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 I dont insult you? You are free to belive who you believe, it is no insult to me or you. The only insult is to Christ, if he died and paid the price for our transgressions and we refuse his gift by replacing grace with works than I say you have cheep grace. As for catholic bashing, challanging a belief doesnt equil hate to a person. I will always trust God and when a teaching conflicts with Gods word I will always follow God before a man. Its that simple. Who will you follow?
Jesus.
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception you are still confuse. We believe that the Church is pillar and foundation of authority in which Christ biblicaly appoints His own power. Whoever despise them despise Him and the one that sent them.. As the Father sent Christ so he sent the apostles. We can see bit by bit that you're just trying to confuse this with "bashing" but when we look Grace actually ACTS through cooperation on men and not to interpret as Christ NOT paying. The grace being magnified through the Church.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Right! you believe the church(mans view, catechism) is the pillar and foundation! I believe what the BIBLE says, that Christ is the FOUNDATION, IMMOVABLE ROCK with all authority. Lets agree to dissagree. You keep quoting cathoic doctrine, give clear scripture if you want to convince me, OK. Have a wondrful CHRISTMAS
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception merry christmass... you are very confused. the authority that comes from the church was clearly given to men. The authority of the Church came from Christ. It is not in our human witt to develop this kind of power. God exercises this to make clear that visible communion is necessary. Others are joined to church through spiritual communion though not to interpret as external and invisible. If a simple act of contrition is possible, then God does so through the Church's graces.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Like I said, if you want to convince me give me scripture not catholic dogma. Until then I will follow the clear teachings of Christ not the many added intrepertations of men over the years. The Jews tried to use this same aproach when Christ came, they thought there man made traditions were above Jesus, they thought the church had the authority and this mistake cost them. Dont follow men, follow God and his clear word, dont add to or take away what is clear.
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception ok but that wasn't the porn.
BestKing56 1 month ago
But then again, that suffering is only NOT cheap if you are crucified with Christ (in at least figural manner). But Peter was in Rome and was crucified in Rome upside down that, with no regards he said that he is no worth dying in the same way as Christ. You pay and lawn the yard after you get forgiven. David, forgiven in his adultery was still being punished. Read the Bible and notice how cheap your protestant doctrines becomes and also the apocrypha
BestKing56 1 month ago
Do, that blanket again that, suppose all of us there got hit by 2 planes in the building. After all of us died, everyone was all of a sudden in ultimate God's presence:
criminals, rapist, sexists, racists, to those who are sanctified withing the Church. This even put you into guilt of denying purgatory! Your Martin Luther REMOVED freaking many books in the original canon! What makes your protestant church the true church when there's 38 k pro denominations and one Roman Catholic? ~
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Purgatory is nothing but a slap in the face to Christ sacrifice. His death and pain is not enough for your sins even though he said it is finished, yet a few our fathers and 10 hail marys is. You must be joking?
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception you got it wrong. Purgatory is God's place that created of His mercy. It was a place if joy as each soul renders purification and finally goes up heaven. Every biblical books about purgatory was REMOVED by reformation and Martin Luther in the case of adding "alone" in romans to further indoctrinate invented heresy.
Are you quoting once and for all in contrast to Eucharist? Of course, Mass it is not a Resacrifice in the same way Trinity is not polytheism.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Purgatory is an invention of man, it is not a biblical doctrine and Jesus nor the apostles ever mention it. We will never see eye to eye, I aproach from a biblical prespective while you come from a point of view that relies on doctrins of men. The problem is when the two conflict, and they do, I trust what is clearly writtenwhile you trust what a man tells you it means. If there was a purgatory than Christ died for nothing? You can't earn your way or pay your way to heaven. GRACE
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception you're still in an obvious act of switching the allegation. First grace acts through cooperation of man. Grace is infused into those works, works which we naturally caused. I don't believe Christ sacrifice is a blanket on a shallow soul cause faith without works is dead says by James. Grace through faith ALONE is the man made once. I know and don't confuse it's earning your right. You do it out of love of God and grace that acts at cooperation with it.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 You said" Grace is infused into thoes works, works which we naturally caused" This is not from a bible man! its from a catechism! you must see the differance. Christ finished it once for all and where these sins have been forgiven there is no more sacrifice, REALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT THIS MEANS!
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception but that is a misconception you're creating. The holy eucharist IS the same sacrifice. It is going back to that exact same calvary. When we define the term "substance", it means, "what it is". You can't pull out your little dictionary to define what the Church meant by that. By this case, appearance remains bread and wine but the substance changes to the whole perfect entity of God the Son. Under the microscope you'll never see that Christ has dual nature. But he is Divine.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Again friend you are quoting catholic dogma! not scripture. You don't seem to understand the difference. The muslims hindus budist etc.. all do the same thing, they inturpret god through there man made traditions and writings the bible is the word of God, if anything is in conflict with it than we must return to thr original deposit, that is scripture, everything must stand its light not the other way around.
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Christ is the rock, not the church, he is the head the church is the body, This is biblically clear. The church is no organization rather the body of believers, the believers in what? Just what peter confessed thatg Christ is who he claims to be and did just what He only could do,thats why there is no other meiator between God and man, not a church, pope, mary, saint etc.. or any one or thing else. Peter is not the rock Christ is.
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception you're getting back again to the little pebble?
1 peter was given keys to make decisions
2 In the Bible he's the first one to practice primacy
3 built the Church in rome, converts 30, 000
4 Later replaced in position
5 "apostolic ministry" was well quoted in Acts.
Pure and simple fact. No mediator but Christ, but there is the Church which he decides to incorporate His power. Finally your own basis is yourself - no church, not even Christ.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Peter hadno more authority then any other apostle. He never claims to nore does he practice primacy. built the church in roam? is that in the bible? No thats another catholic tradition. Later replaced in position? really, according to who? catholic tradition. The apostles were hand chosen and there is no evidence this was to go beyond this and no reasson to assume there would be only one and not 12 if it did. My basis is scripture not me, nice try. I follow God not you or a pope
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@BestKing56 The word says one mediator between God and man, CHRIST. See this is what the word of God says, I believe God, you believe he really didn't mean this because catholic traditions says something different than what you full well know Gods word says. You are the one doing as you pleas, I am trusting God means just what He says. You just keep quoting catholic dogma, evey mormans have there own dogma and traditions and they will tell you they are right. Bottom line neither follow the bible
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@BestKing56 So u understand. When you give me an explination for your traditions u quote the catechism not the bible. The reason u need to do this is simply because you cant show your traditions using the bible,instead you must make elaborate explination defending elaborate explination about explinations that contradict scripture in context. The apostles were hand chose by Christ to reveal the faith, no where is there a hint this is to be added to
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception and you continue to magnify misconceptions about those traditions.You say, scripture or tradition. The Bible said:
John 12:25 - not everything Jesus said was recorded in Scripture
2 Thessalonians 2:15 - hold fast to traditions, whether oral or by letter
You completely ignored acts - "apostolic ministry".
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 No I don't ignore this, this was an apostle speaking not you or the pope! It was a conversation dealing with the original deposit not something to be added hundreds of years later. See the one speaking was chose by Christ not men, he had power to show his authority also, the pope nor you do. The apostles were eye witness and chosen and taught by Christ to establish the church. The traditions were establishe and recorded in scripture, no need to add or ignore what we know is GODS WORD
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
Again Ignatius was taught by paul who was close to Christ and had been with Christ. Those people are the up most credentials not you, nor the reformers. The church says this therefore it's that... create more misconceptions.
BestKing56 1 month ago
"Do ye all follow the bishop, as Jesus Christ doth the Father; and follow the presbyters as the apostles; and have respect unto the deacons as unto the commandment of God. Let no one, apart from the bishop, do any of the things that appertain unto the church. Let that eucharist alone be considered valid which is celebrated in the presence of the bishop, or of him to whom he shall have entrusted it." ~ ignatius
BestKing56 1 month ago
8:2 Wherever the bishop appear, there let the multitude be; even as wherever Christ Jesus is, there is the Catholic Church. - Ignatius.
That my there is historical piece from student of apostles. The terms Catholic and Christianity was used INTERCHANGEABLY as there was really no distinction by the time and it came from Antioch which is origin. Now I won't read your other comments. They came from your mouth no God.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 once again thankyou for quoting catholics on catholic dogma? You just are blind. Let me make this simple, if any church is teaching something contrary to know scripture then we must follow what we know is from God. If your traditions conflict scripture and you choose to follow traditions rather than God then you will find your self opposed to God and in the same condition Jesus found the church of that day(jews
) and they did what to Jesus? because they followed men and not God.
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
* not God nor apostle NOR Early Christian Fathers.
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 you are speaking traditions and legend not historical or biblical fact. If an apostle or and angle from heaven comes with another gosple other than what we have already taught may they be condemend. WHY DO YOU DO WHAT JESUS SAID CLEARLY NOT TO DO? no games, why? dont quote tradition, explain why you do what you are told not to do. You only deceive yourself, not me.
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@BestKing56 One final thing. Jesus says in scripture not to address a man on earth as father, He says because we have but one father in heaven. The context is clear, Jesus is refuring to a spiritual title. Now we look at catholics, not onle do you call men father (in a spiritual context) but you give the ultimate title of HOLY FATHER to a man. Now ask your self, could JESUS have been an clearer here? Really think about this, if you remave your traditions and look at scripture you will see clear.
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Your martin luther? I dont follow a man, also using words like freaking in a biblical discusion tells much about you your motives and the spirit that guides you. .
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception martin luther says to keep your faith SOLA FIDE up high but KEEP committing mortal sin. A faith that is blanket on shallow pond. But the Bible says that even though you have faith that can move mountains, if you have no love/ charity then you're NOTHING. The rest are ABSOLUTELY undefendable!
BestKing56 1 month ago
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beware of youtube user Megazordman2 who posts insluting comments on christianity on videos. Please go to his channel youtube dot com slash megazordman2 and report him 20-30 times a day until he is perma banned. Stop letting these kids get away with it.
RethinkingAmerica 1 month ago
have you self-righteous jackals sodomized your followers' boys today yet ?? LOL
Pedophile infested CHURCH headed by a mere mortal, pope. Look at the financial system of Vatican and you will learn Vatican is merely a front used by devils .... thus... Catholics are boy-fucking devils in robes ! LOL...
remember to threaten your church-goers to cough up money to buy PURITY BRICKS while fucking their deaf boys on the altar ok ?? LOL...
AzerChristians 5 months ago 2
@AzerChrist [ 2 Tim 4:3-4 ] "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."
[2 Pet 2:3 ] " In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping."
hockeyrulesus 4 months ago
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hockeyrulesus 4 months ago
Catholicism is a self-refuting lying cult. The foundational doctrines (Solas) of Protestantism is the real fulfillment of Apostolic Succession, because in the end God has sole authority, not the perverted Catholic church and it's idol worships. The emergence of Protestantism is a fresh renewal of Christianity, unfortunately Satan has also perverted Protestantism (multiple denominations), and the Catholic church is tainted Christianity.
4IDHero 5 months ago
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THIS FACT! The Catholic Church has always tried to keep the European as dumb possible. An example of this hiding of truth can be seen in the coverup of the Pedophile Priest and Gays that run the Catholic Church. The Spanish Inquisition, The Crusades, WWI, and WWII, all involve the Catholic Church manipulating, lying to, stealing from, and murdering the people of Europe. WWII is nothing but the Catholic Church and Rothschild using Ashkenazi Khazars(non-Semites/Zionist) for another Crusade.
Born2Flesh 7 months ago
This is well stated. A lot of people remarking on this are totally off topic. If you think the church is in need of help in this area, join and try to make positive changes. What people DO within a church is not what the Church is. The doctrine, teachings, and Canon (Bible) of the Church are what matters.
1975GregMan 7 months ago
@vladimirkovalsk nothing more than pure prejudice. First of all this is just a ridiculous survey. 50% gay what? 50% of protestants are gay. You are a pussy.
Once again i don't need to read nor contradict your lies. They are just that. lies.Ii do have materials to destroy you. I know a lot of seventh day adventist bullshit prophesy and i do can refute that little horn thing especially that 1 year off of their estimate. you are adding to the bible, cunt!
5htpcure 7 months ago
Once again, you are a post up imbecile liar. know your source. I've refuted this tons of times before you implore such incredibility
5htpcure 7 months ago
I don't care if the cookie monster was an apostle, the apostles NEVER, not even PETER put themselves above anyone. Homey (Christ) don't play that. Christ said, "Who is my mother?" "Who are my brothers?" why? because if you lived in that time it would be common knowledge that the GENTILES (pagans) were into that mother goddess crap, semiramis etc. He wasn't about to let them use her for their own agenda.
areyouazombie 7 months ago
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The pope is the anti christ. paul said the anti christ would sit in the christian church and claim to be God. daniel said the anti christ would come to power right after the roman empire would collapse and be divided. daniel also said he would kill the true christians he would try to change the sabbath day and he would call himself the equal of christ. rev 17 said the anti christ would sit in rome with the harlot church only one power matches these prophecies the pope
vladimirkovalski 7 months ago
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5htpcure 10 months ago
The Bible itself said that celibacy is a gift by Holy Ghost.
Here is your the error of your gay pastors who allowed civil union/ same sex marriage:
watch?v=fQMlE9ZCDJQ
watch?v=ZhUhJURn0Ek
5htpcure 11 months ago
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@5htpcure I will pass your message about gay pastors to whoever practice homosexuality which I oppose. I will merely say that CATHOLIC CHURCH WITH VATICAN'S CONSENT and DIRECTION, PROTECTED and GAVE SANCTUARY to these BOY-FUCKING Monsters, i.e. Catholic priests from world wide for decades !!
Thus, Catholic Church with Vatican on its top, is of SATAN ! and must be destroyed by GOD !! and IT WILL..... as also prophesied by Malachi. .......... Time's UP Satan !
AzerChristians 11 months ago 3
@AzerChristians you are wrong. the catholic excommunicated these folks. Bet watch porn of atheists dressed in nun's cloth who claim to be nuns or priests. You are gullible.
The Vatican was predicted in the Bible as the city beside the hills. On that passage it states that the church that is built by God is visible. non -christians says that Christianity has no church and invisible. That was pwnd by the Bible
5htpcure 11 months ago
@5htpcure Yeah, I am as gullible as believing that Catholics and Vatican are really people-of-God too !! LOL ..
Who cares if there is a PHYSICAL building representing GOD on earth or not ? I don't. God exists in my heart, whereas Catholics, priests, cardinals and bishops etc , believe that GOD exists on the tip of their penises and they had to FUCK boys to feel the existence of GOD... LOL.... I say that they were feeling SATAN and only SATAN would want Vatican to fuck BOYS ! LOL... Bye SATAN !
AzerChristians 11 months ago
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@5htpcure The catholic church is full of paganism introduced by satan to destroy the christian church. the idols the worship of mary, calling the pope the substitute of christ on earth is blasphemy and is a fullfilment of anti christ in bible prophecy. there hands are covered with the blood of millions of martrys true christians who pointed out there sins. did not paul say the anti christ would sit in the christian church and call himself God just as the pope did and will do again
vladimirkovalski 7 months ago
@AzerChristians Look at your own Churches, you Protestant hypocrite!! Go to: reformation,com, where you will find over 800 Protestant clergy Pedophiles listed, with names and dates of the news papers they were posted.
Bigot Prick!!
hockeyrulesus 5 months ago
@hockeyrulesus Theres no succession because Jesus needed apostles that witnessed the resurrection. Catholisicm is from the devil. come out of her
douglasdolly 4 months ago
@douglasdolly It's true, Jesus needed witnesses to what Christ Did and Said, and this is why the Bible gives details to "Ordination (1 Tim 3:1,8; 5:17). The Scripture says the Apostles were to "ORDAIN" other worthy men to succeed them, (Acts 1:20)- "....And his bishopric let another take.", and as we see it for filled in (Acts 1:25-26), where Matthias takes Judas' apostolic authority. You see, if you don't have the Tradition, left by the Apostles, one gets 35,000 denominations of Protestant
hockeyrulesus 4 months ago
@hockeyrulesus I ruther have 35.000 deniminations then a church tell married couples they cannot be intimate exept to concive. And I cannot argue with this chruch from the bible because their apostolic succession goes about my brain. and the bible.
medusa210562 1 month ago
That's funny, for we think Protestantism is from the Devil, Come out of Her!! If you read the Early Christian Writings you won't find any Protestantism, only Catholicism.....that might help you get out from your error, it did for me! lol
hockeyrulesus 4 months ago
@hockeyrulesus What does protestantism got to do with the truth of the bible. Your so far from the truth. I cant waste my time on someone who doesnt believe the bible is the word of God!! Your home is rome.
douglasdolly 4 months ago
@douglasdolly "What does Protestantism got to do with it?" It has everything to do with it!
It all comes down to interpretation of the Scriptures, and Protestant Interpretations of Scripture comes from the Reformers, Catholic Interpretation comes from the Apostles, from 2000 years of the history of the Church. That's What!!
hockeyrulesus 4 months ago
@hockeyrulesus Catholic Interpretation comes from the Apostles, based on what? There is no evidence the roman catholic church has the so called right interpretation of scripture. There is no evidence there is even to be a succession of popes, much less one . Let me cut to the chase Matt 23 8-12 This is Jesus talking, He says not to call any man on earth father and this is not in the parental context, but teacher. Roman catholics have the arrogance to call a man HOLY FATHER! Gods title alone!
PhalanxPerception 4 months ago
@PhalanxPerception Based on the writings of the Apostolic Fathers, men that even Protestant theologians agree were disciples of the Apostles. Men like Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, Polycarp, etc,etc. Catholic Interpretation are from these men. If you read them, you'll find that they were indeed Catholic. No new inventions as the Propagandists claim.
hockeyrulesus 4 months ago
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@hockeyrulesus Catholic Interpretation comes from the Apostles, based on what? There is no evidence the roman catholic church has the so called right interpretation of scripture. There is no evidence there is even to be a succession of popes, much less one . Let me cut to the chase Matt 23 8-12 This is Jesus talking, He says not to call any man on earth father and this is not in the parental context, but teacher. Roman catholics have the arrogance to call a man HOLY FATHER! Gods title alone!
PhalanxPerception 4 months ago
@hockeyrulesus But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ. The greatest among you will be your servant. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
PhalanxPerception 4 months ago
@hockeyrulesus The apostles were chosen by Jesus not men, they were taught by Jesus. The apostles were given the power to preform signs and wonders to show they had the authority and to established the faith and its teachings. The RCC wants to claim that same authority and lay new foundations. Modern day popes are selected by men and have no authority other then what men give them, they just take a title reserved for God alone and give it to themselves. DISGUSTING! No mention of popes in bible.
PhalanxPerception 4 months ago
@PhalanxPerception
1) You need to read Acts 1:20-26. Jesus did not pick Matthias as an Apostle, but MEN did. So your theory is debunked.
2) You need to read 1Tim 3:1-5:22, on the 3 offices of the Church. The Church Christ founded is Hierarchical.
hockeyrulesus 4 months ago
@hockeyrulesus The Church Christ founded is Hierarchical. What are you talking about? Christ is the head of the church, He alone is the rock, the chief cornerstone, not a man IE the pope. Please address Matt 23 8-12 you can twist scripture any way you want but this is crystal clear. I have faith in the word of God not the word of men. The roman catholic church has fallen away, they have let error slip into there doctrine, they place there authority above Gods word.
PhalanxPerception 4 months ago
@hockeyrulesus Even if peter was the head apostle there is nothing to suggest there is some kind of linage giving a single man what was shared by all apostles. Also read Galatians 1 6-9 even if an apostle or an angle from heaven brings another gospel he is cursed by God! So you must deal with this before you ever try to claim you have the authority in the first place.
PhalanxPerception 4 months ago
@PhalanxPerception you were the one that should deal with that because of false doctrines of protestantism known as: cheap grace, eternal security, symbolic baptism, symbolic Eucharist. We will never deal with it. Who claims the church is invisible and non authoritative where's every biblical sources was against it. If the Church is invisible, then Christ wouldn't need to give any power at all but keep to himself in heaven, BUT he gave it AND Peter was in rome with succession and primacy!
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 Why do I need to deal with cheap grace? eternal security? symbolic baptism? symbolic euchrist? I don't need to defend Gods word, what I believe is not in conflict with it.
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@hockeyrulesus The apostolic age ended with the apostles, there is no indication otherwise, and no early church father claimed such a linage till later, that was when roam the center of political world at time claimed such and then the internal writings began to support the pope, not the apostles or first century. Any way you must deal with scripture conflict before we can even debate the popes so called authority.
PhalanxPerception 4 months ago
@hockeyrulesus You want to believe peter , petros, is the rock and not Christ , petra. Christ is the head of the church, this is clear all through scripture, not a man, and certainly not a man that is teaching traditions that conflict with clear biblical teachings, and using a title that is reserved alone for God, Holy Father, this is down right blasphemous!, and Jesus himself says not to do it!!!!!!!! YOu must ignore this no matter what you believe!
PhalanxPerception 4 months ago
@hockeyrulesus You want to believe peter , petros, is the rock and not Christ , petra. Christ is the head of the church, this is clear all through scripture, not a man, and certainly not a man that is teaching traditions that conflict with clear biblical teachings, and using a title that is reserved alone for God, Holy Father, this is down right blasphemous!, and Jesus himself says not to do it!!!!!!!! YOu must ignore this no matter what you believe!
PhalanxPerception 4 months ago
@PhalanxPerception yep. you must consider that semantics. no where in the Bible does it mean "little pebble". It just mean ROCK. Ask yourself the question: Would Christ give tremendous authority to bind and lose an the keys to a mere pebble that's equal to those joseph smiths and martin luthers?, if the church is had been invisible???
NO! If God wants a mere christianity which is invisible then he would NOT do this and is the very first practice of succession EVER!
BestKing56 1 month ago
@BestKing56 semantics? no it is the right interpretation of the greek, not samantics. One understanding makes peter the rock the other makes Jesus the rock. this is not semantics friend but gets right down to who Jesus really was. As for cheep grace? I know what Jesus did for me and there is nothing cheep about it. Don't confuse my beliefs (unknown to you) with your presumptions. Jesus is the ROCK everythig rest on wether or not he is the Son of God, this is the basis of christianity
PhalanxPerception 1 month ago
@PhalanxPerception oh c'mon! greek not always has one dialect, there's multiple language in greek. The gospels was written in Koine greek in which your distinction is invalid. There's absolutely no distinction of rocks in this dialect. But you are the confusing and avoiding your own semantics. Christ practices his power visibly by use of men in the church. The Bible refutes before you go rambling about. It is the case that through the Holy Ghost, Peter practiced authority until he pass it down!
BestKing56 1 month ago