Irina Slutskaya 1997 Worlds LP

[demisDINOS]

How the HELL did she NOT win a medal here. This was perfect!

[allenglandlawns]

@demisDINOS I know right! Actually, i think it was because she made costly errors in the short program that put her out of contention for a medal. But I certainly think she deserved at least a 2nd in the free program with this athletic and courageous performance.

[allenglandlawns]

@SkateNater Well, Tara AND Irina are amazing athletes. Difficult triple-triples? No problem for them! It was great to see them both throw out their best here. But as usual, both of their marks don't reflect their amazing technicals and athletic ability...Kwan favoritism dominated skating during those days and everyone must be shafted when the judges were trying REALLY hard to give the Kween her title.

[JNagarya]

@allenglandlawns We can't hear you. You are drowned out by the countless spontaneous standing ovations given Kwan by the vast majority, even at her practice sessions.

Otherwise, you can't have it both ways, ass. If the judges awarded Kwan's her wins because they were corrupt, then they also awarded T(i)ara and Sasha their wins because corrupt.

[allenglandlawns]

@JNagarya Oh you can hear me alright =) You wouldn't have bothered responding. And I'm not having it any "way". The only person with their way was Kwan. Inflated marks, handed medals and titles at the expense of true athletes. Everyone else earns their marks but were shafted to make room for the pampered Kween of Olympic chokers.

[JNagarya]

@allenglandlawns You can't have it both ways: if the judges were corrupt in awarding Kwan wins, then they were also corrupt when they awarded wins to T(i)ara and Sasha.

Anyone who believes that Kwan was not an athlete -- a superb athlete -- is stupid. And is calling Dick Button and Peggy Fleming liars.

[kwadruple]

@SkateNater lacking body awareness doesn't mean you can't move, it simply means you aren't aware of the shapes your body is making and in the case of Slutskaya, her shoulders are hunched, her back drops, her legs are bent awkwardly, and her arms shoot out like a speed skater. Throughout most of Slutskaya's program, the choreography screams "sloppy or messy" while in Tara's it looks "neat and polished." That's not an exaggeration, just the truth.

[russianskatingfan]

@kwadruple Tara's skating was not neat and polished. This program should have easily beaten Tara in the long program.

[mlc2005]

I love her personality, and loved watching her over the years. I never understood why she didn't get a better choreographer though. She really never improved much in terms of artistry. She def. wasn't the type of skater who "felt" the music, which is what I personally enjoy (along with the jumps of course). I thought Tara had better artistry than Irina actually. And Kwan towered over both of them of course.

[kwadruple]

@anubethc45 Sarah Hughes? Sarah and Tara never competed against each other.

[Johno1863]

Love this , Irina is simply the best ! ...

[cginnish]

@USAGymnast Tara and Michelle cheated on the triple lutz jumps and got credit for them, you can't take off on an inside edge and call it a lutz.

Irina took off on an outside edge which is correct, plus she had way better spins higher jumps and more speed, Tara and Michelle barely get no hight to their jumps, Irina is better over all.

[Karosanyo]

@cginnish Do you think that Irina had a better program than Michelle? Michelle wouldn't flutz all of the time. Her jumps were so solid. I also think that her spins were good (her COE double Y spin and her spinning in both directions was difficult). Michelle had better posture, lines, artistry and flexibility. Her spiral sequence put Irina's to shame as well. Michelle had great speed when she was at her best (she had A LOT more choreography than Irina). Michelle was VASTLY superior.

[cw6391]

i think this was a better performance than tara's

[b2367]

what a fighter !

[rickram1961]

This is one of my very favorite of Irina's LP's. The music was is very lovely and pleasant. I just enjoy seeing this over and over again. 

[Johno1863]

Is this beautiful or just beauty . IRINA SLUTSKAYA is simply the Best ! ...

[shawntaylorcassidy]

I remember that I wasn't really a fan of Irina, until I saw her skate this program. I know she had struggled all season, and to come out fighting the way she did here, was really really impressive.

[Pascaltown]

I am ignorant of figure skating,

but still remember this program on live telecast.

so naive and very impressive.

thx for upload.

[MrSk8ingfan]

This program is clearly better than the garbage that Terror Lewinsky put on. Far better spins and maturity.

The final result should've been:

1. Kwan

2. Ugly Troll

3. Slutskaya

[mlc2005]

Somebody needs to learn when to shut up; Im sorry, but these non-stop, never ending arguments about inane points that are meaningless are starting to get annoying. Stating an opinion is one thing, but having to respond with a diatribe every time someone posts something you disagree with is another. PLEASE STOP! It's every skating clip I go to now. there's a 20 post argument about how the results should have been different, blahhhh..

[kerstenfanatic]

It is so easy to be an armchair critic. I am not saying judging is perfect always. However I would like to see some of these whiners study all the rules on technical and presentation marks, all the ins and outs and different variables, face the pressures under the 6.0 system of having to balance judging the quality while also saving potential room for so and so who has a change for such and such a placing.  Balance all that in the brain and still get it spot on each time. Good luck.

[mikonos91]

The bronze medal was stolen by Gusmeroli.

[Zuranthium]

Gusmeroli skated the best SP of the competition. Her LP was very flawed technically, but the choreography was superior to Slutskaya's. I can see a case being made for either skater deserved the Bronze but I'd give the edge to Gusmeroli.

[warriorgr]

Gusmeroli's choreography was indeed good, but in noway better than Slutskaya's and even if it was, her LP was a complete disaster, which means that she DID NOT deserve the bronze medal. For me the standings should be: Kwan, Slutskaya, Butyrskaya (don't shoot me, she was behind Lipinski technically, but there is no comparison between them in terms of asrtistry), Lipinski and then Gusmeroli.

[Zuranthium]

Gusmeroli's LP wasn't a disaster - she landed 5 Triples and stayed in character despite her mistakes. The choreography was absolutely better than Slutskaya's, have to disagree with you majorly there. It reflected the character of the music and had unique movements. Slutskaya just skates around doing arm movements and jumps that are inconsequential to the music.

Butyrskaya - meh. She was clearly 5th at this competition. Her jump content and her performance in the LP were both not great.

[warriorgr]

First of all Vanessa landed 4 triples. Fall on the 1st flip, two-footed lutz. Her clean triples were the 2nd flip, the salcow, the toe-loop and the loop. She had absolutely no combination, whereas Maria landed 5 triples with a combination and no one is anywhere near Maria in terms of artistry. Irina landed 6 awesome triples with 2 combos (one triple-triple) with much improved artistry and better spins than Vanessa. In my book, Vanessa should have never been ahead of Irina and Maria. Period.

[Zuranthium]

You are wrong.

Vanessa didn't two-foot her lutz. She landed 5 clean Triples. She didn't fall on the 1st flip either, although it was close.

Maria DID however two-foot her Flip. She landed 4 clean Triples.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about Maria's artistry. I think much of her performance was labored and there are certainly people who are more artistic than her.

[warriorgr]

If you open your eyes, you will see that Vanessa did two-foot her lutz and Maria's flip was clean even though she often gave the impression of two-footing some of her jumps. Plus, Vanessa might have not smacked her head on the ice after the flip, but YES it was a horrible landing very close to a fall. As for Maria's artistry, for me she was by far the best of her generation, but you don't have to agree with that, you are entitled to your opinion as am I.

[GoBogi]

Slutskaya had the best technical LP of the competition. There is no way to justify Gusmeroli's win by bringing her technical content into the picture. There is no way she should have scored even close to Slutskaya on the technical mark. The only mistake Slute had was low landing on the Lutz, and she salvaged that and put it in combination. Fierce. She had a triple triple. She did every jump well. Vanessa's artistry was not so great that it could overcome this technical milestone. Sorry.

[GoBogi]

Gusmeroli deserved her medal by virtue of her Short Program. There was no way she was winning a medal had Slute not fallen in the short.

I don't see why people are dissing Lipinski and saying she shouldn't have medaled. If you had watched 96 Worlds it was pretty evident that she would be a medalist the next year with better Choreo even with her technical deficiencies - provided she didn't fall (like in 96 Worlds SP) - again, thanks to her ability to rotate jumps and throw a gazillion combos

[GoBogi]

Also, people should not listen to Peggy and Dick IRT artistry. They are[obviously] biased. Watch some French coverage, or something... That is much better than this... Lol.

Formulate your own opinions, don't carry on the "status quo" opinion of others (who most likely just got it from Peggy or Dick, and Peggy was no artistic phenom when she was competing).

[Zuranthium]

Peggy's skating has nothing to do with Slutskaya. In any case, most of their comments here are correct.

Slutskaya's presentation was lacking. Of the top 4 ladies this was clearly the weakest program. She did skate her program better than Gusmeroli, but again, Gusmeroli had the best SP of the event and Slutskaya made a huge mistake in that segment of the competition.

[GoBogi]

I didn't say Peggy's skating had anything to do with Slutskaya. I'm just saying that Peggy has a lot of nerve to make such harsh comments about the artistry of other skaters seeing as how she was neither an artistic phenom, nor pioneer of Artistry on the ice (Kwan, Chen Lu, Baiul, etc.).

Most != All.

Slute's program was better than Gusmeroli's. I've already stated that Gusmeroli deserved her medal based on her SP performance. Some people understand how that scoring system worked.

[Bruckner79]

Peggy's commentary was always harsh towards Irina. The only significant competitive weakness that Irina had at this point was her inconsistant Lutz; Her security with that jump came later. If it had come sooner, Kwan vs. Lipinski would have been a three way rivalry.

[GoBogi]

Kwan Flutzed, watch her programs. You really are clueless, and somewhat annoying.

[GoBogi]

What wrong with it? What's wrong with disagreeing with the OPINION that Michells should have won. She faltered and paid for it. She did it at Nationals, and then she did it at Worlds.

Tara wasn't gifted with most of her wins. The judges made her work for them. They would penalize her for her flutz (watch 97-98 Champion Series Final SP from her). This is the long program, there aren't any harsh deductions for flutzing. Get a clue.

[GoBogi]

I didn't say Kwan, I said Slutskaya. Are you intent on putting words in my mouth and twisting things to attempt making a "good argument"? Michelle also flutzed, you haven't noticed? Are you just that biased? Tara was more artistic than Slutskaya in 97/98. Watch both videos and clean you contacts.

Slutskaya telegraphs horribly, I think that is a negative aspect of her skating. She also had almost no extension and skates around like she doesn't give a shit and doesn't wanna be there...

[kwadruple]

I love Slutskaya, but this program is so hideous...music, choreography, costume= disaster. She had the best jumps of the nights but her presentation was so weak and sloppy compared to even Tara Lipinski. Thank goodness she didn't repeat this FS in 98 and gave us her Ah Nastasia program which I love.

[GoBogi]

The Kwan Mafia would disagree, but only since her beating Tara would allow Michelle to win the competition. Otherwise they would say she was horrible because later in her career she was a chief Rival of Michell, and Rivals of Michelle are trash as usual. The speak of Tara in this SLUTSKAYA LP DISCUSSION is pretty good proof of that.

[GoBogi]

And also, don't use Slutskaya's performance as a way to justify a Win for Kwan. All of those people who faltered to give Tara the edge after the Short pretty much gave it away. It's not like she didn't follow it up with a Win at the olympics to prove that she was actually at that level as a skater. Tara's jumps were 1-inch high but she didn't seem to have as much trouble getting them around as 90% of the skaters today, Lol. Good skate for Slute, though :P

[GoBogi]

Tara was > Slutskaya in Technical Merit. Slutskaya had better spins, but the presentation of her jumps was not as good as Tara's. Tara wasn't really unartistic, she was just 14 years old. I think you need to put that into perspective. Watch Slutskaya in 1996 and see how rough around the edges and pretty much attrocious her positions and artistic impression was. Tara was years ahead of her at 14. There is no way she should have beaten Tara. Slute ended her chances in the short.

[kerstenfanatic]

I would give Irina a 5.9 for technical and 5.8 for artistic. I would give Michelle a 5.8 for technical and a 5.9 for artistic. I would give Tara a 5.7 or 5.8 for technical and a 5.6 for artistic.

[Egbert23]

omg, michelle was cheated! irina should've been ahead of tara and her 1 inch high jumps

[lambielkwanfan]

Totally agree. It is a shame Peggy cant appreciate a powerful and less elegant style of skating from a top women skater. Skating needs these different styles anyway to bring a contrast and make it interesting. If Peggy had her way everyone would come out in a flowing gown and skate to Swan Lake, and do a bunch of chasse moves over and over, blech!

[lambielkwanfan]

Totally agree. Peggy always was a huge fan of the "pretty" skaters on ice like Sumners, Trenary and Cohen even if they were cold, flat and lacked any real emotion or expression (Sumners) or lacked even adequate basic skating skills (Cohen). Not that pretty skating cant be great and isnt to be appreciated in its own right. Just that I hated how narrow minded she was, and not open to various types of artistry and styles that are possible in the sport. Remember she didnt like Debi Thomas either.

[russianskatingfan]

I totally agree!!

[ants2876]

Her triple salchow-triple loop was so well done. Was this the first time she did it cleanly? I remember her trying at both Cup of Russia and Europeans and barely missing.

[russianskatingfan]

Brilliant performance from this incredible skater. Deserved 1st or 2nd in the free skate for sure. I would put her 2nd if I were a judge though just so Michelle got her deserved overall gold over Tara while Irina still made the podium.

[lambielkwanfan]

Kwan first in the long, Slutskaya second, Tara third and overall Kwan gold, Lipinski silver, Slutskaya bronze. I would have been totally fine with that.

[russianskatingfan]

I would have been just fine with those results too.

[ants2876]

It was a crime this was placed only 3rd in the free skate. It was much better then Tara's performance!

[russianskatingfan]

Yeah I think pretty much everyone with a brain knows this should have been 1st or 2nd in the free skate and won a medal. Everything except for having a second tripe lutz and second triple was better then Tara.

[lambielkwanfan]

I would also add what incredible courage to do this great skate after not only a horribly inconsistent year for her, but the very bad crash that left her in pain that afternoon. What an amazing fighter.

[dbulcavage]

i don't understand why the commentors were always so rough on her. Personally, i think she was a breath of fresh air, and i always enjoyed watching her performances.

[Stinkyfart]

This is why I refused to watch any ABC Figure Skating coverage.

She definitely was a breath of fresh air. She looked so joyful and happy to be able to skate and was so graceful.

[dbulcavage]

I know right! Peggy Flemming is such a bitch.  "I think she desperately needs to improve on her artisty." I felt like punching her when she said that.

[lambielkwanfan]

Peggy Fleming is a big snob. She cant understand that there are many different styles of artistry, the beautiful ballerina style of Michelle and Sasha, and also powerful commanding styles like Irina. Atleast Irina had a style, unlike Tara gobot who was just a jumping bean who otherwise skated like an immature little girl but of course Peggy in no way faults her artistry, LOL! Irina and her rivalry with Michelle over the years is what made womens skating so popular around the world.

[dbulcavage]

I definitely agree with you that Michelle and Irina made women's figure skating popular. I also believe the Nancy/Tanya rivalry in 94 made the sport popular as well.

[terellison]

I agree with you, Stinkyfart. The first time I ever saw Irina skate, what struck me about her more than anything was the pure joy with which she skated. At this point in her career, like many young skaters, she was vey much about the jumps, and of course, her Bielmann spins on both feet. Artistry in skating tends to come with maturity. Fleming can go suck a lemon.

[luchito345]

this was definitelly a medall performance... One of the things i like the most abou the new scoring system is the fact that scores her the way i belive she should be scored... dont get me wrong there r stuffs i do miss from he old scoring system, but it didnt work very well to recognize the amazing skater Irina was...

Ira's Fan 4ever!!!

[hilljacknutjob]

spectacular jumps...she should have medaled.Also, she has a very BIG presence on the ice. A very good performer.

[StewNWT]

definitely think she should have been second, knocking Tara out of 1st. Just compare their triple flips, hers is huge, tara's is puny beyond words.

[lambielkwanfan]

You are right. This should have had the highest technical marks of all the women, and been 2nd overall in the long program behind Michelle (Michelle just barely getting it for me because of the 2nd mark) thus moving Irina up to bronze overall over Vanessa, and dropping Tara down to silver behind Michelle.

[ota85]

Her jumps were amazing, especially her trple-triple combination, but she did only one triple lutz and it was not her best.

[lambielkwanfan]

Tara couldnt even do a triple lutz. I will take one triple lutz with a shaky landing, but great takeoff and great height over 2 tries at a triple lutz which were not even a real triple lutz.

[lambielkwanfan]

If they were not good, then what would you consider Tara's which was 5 times worse.

[lambielkwanfan]

Tara flutzes, has tiny jumps (Irina could probably jump over her while both are doing a jump), weak spins, mediocre footwork, and very weak childish artistry. She was overrated. Skating experts such as Christine Brennan have openly stated as much.

[lambielkwanfan]

No Tara did not relate better to music then Irina. Even in this performance Irina hits the accents very well and puts her movements express the character of the music very well, much moreso then Tara's little girl programs. Tara's spins were weak, her camels had no stretch and slow, her layback had hardly any arch and slow, her scratch very slow, only her sit spins were good. The great Peggy Fleming said during Skate America late 97 Tara had weak spins. Sorry but you are wrong on Tara.

[lambielkwanfan]

No these were Peggy's words during her long program at Skate America:"these spins are not a little weak with not alot of stretch in the positions, not a whole lot of speed." That was a comment on her spins in general. Yes Tara was a weak spiner, especialy compared to Michelle or Irina, and much weaker quality jumps although they were a bit harder. Irina had some stylistic flaws, but Tara had as many or more. Her 2nd in the long her was a gift, end of story.

[lambielkwanfan]

Ummm watch the tape yourself, there is even one on youtube right here. Peggy said exactly what I said she did and she was referring to her spinning in general. If you are too dense to realize this that is your problem, not me. Anyway I am done with you. You are a waste of time. You obviously love Tara, but your flash in the pan is "Tara who now", while Michelle and even Irina are still talked about today.

[kwadruple]

@StewNWT Okay, but next compare their posture, line, and musicality...suddenly the difference in jump height doesn't seem so important.

[StewNWT]

@kwadruple lmao Tara is like 4'8 here she has no posture

[kwadruple]

@StewNWT Obviously you don't know what posture means? Tara holds her back up straight, extends her leg lines, keeps her arms controlled, etc...Slutskaya, while a personal favorite of mine, had absolutely no clue how to create long lines and had no body awareness whatsoever. Couple that with the awful music and laughable choreography, I don't know how anyone could think this LP was better than Tara's. The results in the LP were absolutely correct: 1)Kwan 2)Lipinski 3)Slutskaya

[limide]

3salchow -3loop wonderful!

[xlutskaya]

SHE BECAME THE FIRST WOMAN TO LAND

[3SALCHOW + 3LOOP]IN COMPETITION

IN MY OPINION, she had the best technical program of the night!

She is an amazing skater and person! She is my idol

[fjn219]

Not really.

Tara had done a 3S-3Lo in 1996 worlds.

[rickram1961]

I loved this number that Irina skated to in 1997 World Championships in Austria. The music is so haunting and chilling to listen to. I love the piano music section.  This is an excellent performance that Irina did.

[tsimshan]

Second? Try first she was better than both Kwan and Lipinski.

[muffycat26]

I would have scored it like this:

Lipinski - 5.8 tech, 5.7 artistic

Slutskaya - 5.9 tech, 5.8 artistic

Kwan - 5.7 tech, 5.9 artistic

I dont know, I would have been fine with either Kwan or Slutskaya winning the free. Tara definitely did not deserve to be 2nd in the free though.

[muffycat26]

Yeah but her jumps are puny, she has a bad flutz, her spins and footwork are weaker then Irina or Michelle, she is slower then Irina, and worse spirals then Michelle. There is more to the tech. mark then just jump content, or should be.

[BigA3372]

Lipinski's program included...it includes flutzing, cheated jumps and bad axel technique

[MichelleKwanForever]

Well her SP to the same music was pretty good. Her spiral extentions were pretty good, her jumps looked pretty good except for theo ouchyy lutz combo other than that, the SP is by far one of her best! ~KJ

[MichelleKwanForever]

Well, she went for everything becasue she really had nothing to loose. I give her 2nd in the free skate...

[BmcC102]

Wow. I really disagree with those here who think this was better than Tara. Tara's musical interpretation and presentation were always underrated, IMO. I think Dick Button gets it though, as you can hear him mention during Tara's LP.

[BigA3372]

You are right, but also Lipinski so called presentation was non-existent. So I'd have plaved her in front of Lipinski who, by the way, had several technical flaws (flutzing, under-rotations and the most horrible 2 axel technique).

[danbecktrumpet]

I know the presentation sucks, but at this point it's kind of so bad it's good for me with this program.

[muffycat26]

She should have placed either first or second in the free skate. The quality of her jumps and spins are much better then either Michelle or Tara, and she was the fastest. Her spirals and footwork were better then Tara's. Her posture is bad and she isnt as polished as Michelle, but she had much better musical interpretation and presence then Tara. Way undermarked to only be 3rd in the free skate and not win a medal. Atleast 3 judges gave her 1st, the 6 that put her 3rd below Tara were wrong.

[assid707]

it was an okay performance in terms of overaul qulity. it wasnt her best one, but she improved over the years as a really great skater

[bbtantan]

Oh I completely agree pollyannapax. The difference between this and Carmen in 2000 is striking. However, I still prefer her to Lipinski at this stage. I also agree that the music is dreadful though.

[bbtantan]

She possibly deserved to place ahead of Lipinski in this (which would of course have given Kwan the title). Love the quality of her jumps and her charisma.