@travismification LDS generally don't debate, but you will still find an occasional debate now and then. We have a debate on our site between James White (Christian), and Daniel C Peterson (LDS) that you may be interested in.
Those of you anti mormon, we invite you to read the book of mormon, ponder it in your heart and then ask God the Eternal Father , in the name of Jesus Christ if the book is true, for me i know The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is the only true church here on earth Joseph Smith was a prophet of God
@MrWildone17 Show me the 10 commandments written in stone, the Ark of the Covenant or Noah's ark. Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.
I don´t like the way it is presented, it is not certain most of the information share, they shouldn´t use words such as they did not have if the book of mormon says they did...
The most quoted verse of the Bible shows mormonisim to be flawed, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that who so ever would believe on Him would not die but have everlasting life." Notice, His ONLY begotten son. Lds people think Jesus and satan are brothers, this one scripture prooves that wrong.
What a waste of time! I was really interested about seeing "THE EVIDENCE" in this video, not just listening words. At least they could have interviewed some Non LDS Scholars or Archeologists to support them.
@TheSoulamore National Geographic is one of the most respected scientific organizations in the world. They have the real archaeologists (including a Mormon), with the real research.
Archaeology does NOT support --
1)The Exodus
2) the walls of Jericho at the time of Joshua
3) that Jonah got the people of Assyrian of Nineveh capital to repent
4) Solomon's "glorious" "empire"
5) Book of Genesis
Matthew 2, the Execution of babies in New Testament, is not mentioned by any historian.
Scary thing is that this film states that Mormons neither believe that the Bible or the Book of Mormon is sound and without fault. REALLY they all live a life following something faulty in their mind. So sad! Of course 100% is not proven in the Bible...hello it is a book of history. The truth is that numerous things in the Bible have been proven and are without a doubt true. Deuteronomy 18:22
@pritcha07 Oh yea? Well please feel free to provide us the arc of the covenant, or any proof of Hebrews in Egyptian captivity? You are not born again, and you have not entered the straight gate according to Matt 7.
@machandxb This is part 1 of a 13 part series and only discusses their view of the video. We have a playlist of videos called "Bible vs The Book of Mormon answered." Also, you can read a more detailed rebuttal in the links provided above.
I will answer the rest of the questions another time, i have to go. anti-mormons such as Brodie, have accuse of Joseph Smith being to father of some people, however DNA evidence has disproven that claim. DOn't worry, joseph smith is NOT my GOd, I believe in God the father, his son JEsus christ, and the HOly ghost.
I will answer the rest of the questions another time, i have to go. anti-mormons such as Brodie, have accuse of Joseph Smith being the father of some people, however DNA evidence has disproven that claim. DOn't worry, joseph smith is NOT my GOd, I believe in God the father, his son JEsus christ, and the HOly ghost.
nobody asked you for your testimony, just answer the questions. and who are you to say that the mormon church is the true church of jesus christ? If I claim to be the king of cheese doesn't mean that I actually am.
@esisthebest 1) First vision story did NOT evolve, New information of the whole story was been added with time. Example: we are not going to learn everything about the USA presidents in 1st grade, just part of their story, we start to know more details when we get to hight school.
2) Joseph Smith, Prophet of GOD, was sealed to other women, IT was NOT for lustful motives.I am not aware of DNA evidence confirming that he had children with them other than with EMMA. DNA has proven the contrary.
@esisthebest The name of the true church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I say it is because that's what the Spirit of God has let me know to be true. Who are you to talk against what Christ established?
HEy I will answer your easy questions tomorrow, I have to go to sleep now, I have school tomorrow. Send me your questions in a private message. and please, stop attacking the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints, especially becuase its the true church of Jesus Christ .Also I respect your beliefs, I don't go attacking them.
sorry to change the subject, In a national geographic article, it claims " One would be hard pressed to find a legitimate scientist today who does not believe in evolution" " In a 1997 survey in the science journal Nature, 40 percent of U.S. scientists said they believe in God—not just a creator, but a God to whom one can pray in expectation of an answer. That is the same percentage of scientists who were believers when the survey was taken 80 years earlier. " What do you say about this??
but don't worry those questions are really easy to answer .(but first I have to clarify something, I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of GOD. I know that the Book of Mormon is true and also the Bible) there, now I could answer to your easy questions in a private message if you want.
So why did I win. 1) I clearly explained that John 4: 24 was not literal. 2) if to them God is spirit, they couldn't explain to me why Jesus Christ became flesh and still be GOD without contracting John 4:24. Clearly the WORD is GOD in John 1:1 3) never explained to me about Deut 34:5
Let's talk about how Joseph Smith gave 9 DIFFERENT accounts of his visitation in the woods when he was praying. Let's talk about how Joseph Smith had 27 wives. Let's talk about how Joseph Smith carried around a jupiters talisman almost his whole life (I'd look that up if you don't know what it is). Let's talk about how Joseph Smith made false prophecies. Let's talk about it.
@TriplXThreat "Let's talk about how Joseph Smith had 27 wives" actually acording to historian todd compton he had 33. And its a really easy question to answer. All of your questions. I think atheist anti-mormons are more intellectual than religious anti-mormons.
@TriplXThreat Those questions are really easy to answer. and according to historian Todd Compton he had 33. I think atheist anti-mormons are more intellectual than religious anti-mormons.
@TriplXThreat 1 question) to me the first vision did not evolve, but it got clearer over time. I could claim the same thing about the doctrine of the trinity, that it evolved with time. You don't even find the word trinity in the Bible.
@TriplXThreat HEy Baptist say one thing about the Bible, pentecostal another, I mean who to believe?????? JW, adventist, I could go for ever. And I do know what the BIble says, I watched my national geographic documentaries of the Bible.
@TriplXThreat By the way, if you study the context of Rev 22: 18--19 its talking about Rev 1:11. And both the Bible and teh Book of mormon are the word of GOD.
The Dead Sea Scrolls are dead on with The Bible we have today. So that's how I know that The Bible I have is correct compared to your rewrite version of The Bible. So the Dead Sea Scrolls have proven what The BIble says. Also you are avoiding my question in why its ok to add prophecies because that's not a translation that is just plain adding things.
@xSTEVIEx24 "Also you are avoiding my question in why its ok to add prophecies " its okay to add prophecies, becuase prophecies are the WORD OF GOD. Why do we need BOOK OF revelations then??? if we already have the 4 gospels.
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
I guess if people have changed the Bible God will judge them.
@TriplXThreat I agree with you, the word of GOD shall stand forever, even in the times of Isaiah were Malachia as not been written yet. YEs anyone who adds or takes away from the word of GOD which is in the Bible and the Book of mormon. that is something real bad.
@TriplXThreat I agree with you, the word of GOD shall stand forever, even in the times of Isaiah were Malachia as not been written yet. YEs anyone who adds or takes away from the word of GOD which is in the Bible and the Book of mormon. that is something real bad. anyways, I think I win the debate, you two are not answering my questions, and I am answering yours.
@TriplXThreat I am asking if according to you (God is Jesus) then was he GOD while in the flesh?? John 4:24, according to you???? and noone has answered Deut 34:5, I am ignorant in the doctrine of the trinity?? I watch a lot of debates between pentecostals and baptist.
@xSTEVIEx24 Their is plenty of evidence that the BIble got altered. Some scholars think that the first 5 books of moses had multiple-authors. However, some of the JST is just commentary, explains the scriptures. Yes there are some restorations, but we are not sure if the restorations, restore the scripture as it was in the original manuscripts or if it only was restoration of doctrine.
Now, according to John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In verse 14, it talks about the Word becoming flesh (Jesus) and dwelling among us. If the Word is God and God is the Word (according to John 1:1), and the Word became flesh (Jesus), doesn't that make Jesus and God the same since they are both the Word??
@TriplXThreat No one can proof what the bible says, oneness pentecostals interpret that scripture differently. Hey but you never answer my question John 4:24 and John 1:1, 14. By the way it says, with GOD. two persons not one. The WORD with the FATHER
@TriplXThreat John 1:1 says and the word was GOD. John 1:17 says he became flesh, so according to you, Jesus was not GOD when he became flesh??????????
The word pneuma, which is translated spirit, also means ‘life’ or ‘breath’." "Also, if God is a spirit and we have to worship him in spirit, do mortals have to leave our bodies to worship him? " (FAIRWIKI) one commentary insists, "It is a metaphor of his mode of operation, as life-giving power, and it is no more to be taken literally than 1 John 1:5, "God is light," or Deuteronomy 4:24"( J. N. Sanders, A Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John),
@TriplXThreat No one has been able to proof what the Bible really says, ask a onennes pentecotal, ask a jehovah's witness, ask a church of christ(not refering to lds(but lds is the church of christ))
@TriplXThreat The word pneuma, which is translated spirit, also means ‘life’ or ‘breath’." "Also, if God is a spirit and we have to worship him in spirit, do mortals have to leave our bodies to worship him? " (FAIRWIKI) one commentary insists, "It is a metaphor of his mode of operation, as life-giving power, and it is no more to be taken literally than 1 John 1:5, "God is light," or Deuteronomy 4:24"( J. N. Sanders, A Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John),
@TriplXThreat "The word pneuma, which is translated spirit, also means ‘life’ or ‘breath’." "Also, if God is a spirit and we have to worship him in spirit, do mortals have to leave our bodies to worship him? " (FAIRWIKI) one commentary insists, "It is a metaphor of his mode of operation, as life-giving power, and it is no more to be taken literally than 1 John 1:5, "God is light," or Deuteronomy 4:24"( J. N. Sanders, A Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John).
@TriplXThreat "The word pneuma, which is translated spirit, also means ‘life’ or ‘breath’. (FAIRWIKI). Also one commentary insists, "It is a metaphor of his mode of operation, as life-giving power, and it is no more to be taken literally than 1 John 1:5, "God is light," or Deuteronomy 4:24"( J. N. Sanders, A Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John).
@TriplXThreat To answer your question, The word pneuma, which is translated spirit, also means ‘life’ or ‘breath’." and one commentary insists, "It is a metaphor of his mode of operation, as life-giving power, and it is no more to be taken literally than 1 John 1:5, "God is light," or Deuteronomy 4:24"( J. N. Sanders, A Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John).
@xSTEVIEx24 Joseph Smith never rewrote the Bible. You don't understand what JST is. Please. and I am not attacking the Bible. I believe the Bible is the word of GOD.
@TriplXThreat Yes we admit it, we don't believe in the trinity, becuase we belief God the Father, and our LORD JESUS CHIRST are separate beings. But we believe in JEsus christ.
@TriplXThreat ?????????????? Gordon B Hinckley admited what???? anyways, the Bible and the book of mormon are the word of GOD. Let me ask you a question, why do you accept Paul's letters and the Book of revelations if we already have the four gospels??????????
By putting down The Bible ,doesn't that put down The Book of Moromon? If The Bible isn't true, than how would The Book of Mormon be true? Without The Bible there would be no Book of Mormon. So why does this video and why do people of the LDS church attack The Bible and try to prove things wrong with it, when people prove things wrong with The Book of Mormon? Just wondering if someone could answer that for me please. Thank you.
@xSTEVIEx24 We believe the Bible to be the word of God. The reason we are discussing a few of the controversies surrounding it, is because in the original anti-Mormon video, they paint the Bible to be perfect, while the Book of Mormon to be full of flaws. We wanted to show that both sets of scripture share many of the same problems and one cannot claim that one is not scripture because of certain problems, while accepting the other that has the very same problems.
What prophets today do, they base the DOCTRINE of their inspired talks on the Scriptures (doctrine that has already been revealed), and they apply them to our days, and circumstances so that we can have success in this life. When God reveals new doctrine, we will most likely have new canonize scripture or it will be in the official church statements/proclamations.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. If God is spirit (John 4:24), is the Bible contraditing itself (John1:14)? Or was John 4:24 only talking about the FATHER? It seems to me (according to me) that they are not the same being. They are two beings. I believe both in the Bible and the Book of Mormon as the word of GOD.
@MisioneriesinChile Let's end here. You're not addressing the issue, the BoM.
Good-meaning people, such as yourself, do nothing to change that Mormonism is a fraud perpetrated by a succession of frauds. Joseph Smith taught that [g]od was a man. Brigham Young taught it, too. You now know, so you can't claim ignorance. You stand before Christ Jesus in the resurrection and tell Him that you believed in Joseph Smith and his claims. I don't have time to respond to anymore of your comments. Sorry!
@whodidyouexpect Okay but its not in any official church statement or proclamation. Maybe Peter taugh that God used to be a man, as his personal opinion. but its not in the Bible. So please use official church, or scripture. Joseph smith is in this list, (Discovery Channel, Greatest American: Top 100) by the way. Joseph Smith was just a mortal man and a servent of Jesus Christ.
@whodidyouexpect I am not interested in what joseph smith said IF it is not in the LDS scriptures, bible, or official church statements/proclamations. (He didn't say something real bad or did something real bad, anyways) Joseph SMith is NOT my GOD. If we find documents of Peter's opinions, but are not in the bible, would you be interested? God's word given to Joseph Smith is found in D&C
@whodidyouexpect Actually I don't deny that possibility. I consider it as a possibility. However, its not clear what Joseph Smith meant. This is a controversial subject. However, I am not aware of any single document approved by the first presidency, declared as official proclamation or statement, that explains that or clarifies what Joseph Smith said, or even emphasize it. Little is known about that subject. Do you know what official church position is? (No, Pres. Hinckley did not deny it)
Hey if you can show me something in the LDS official proclamation, or scripture as false, that Brigham Young taught, as being false. Then that will make him a false prophets.(However you would not be able to prove it false, becuase Brigham Young was really a prophet of GOD) Just like some people thought, that Wilford Woodruff was a false prophet becuase of the (official declaration 1). However, Oficial declaration 1 came from God, and Wilford Woodruff was also a prophet.
@whodidyouexpect Thankyou for using scripture. You can't disproof a world religion with the Bible. People interpret the Bible many ways. Like J.W., Oneness pentecostals see John 1:1. So its your interpretation. So according to you, Jesus is not GOD while he is in the flesh ? "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."(NASB John 1:14). I didnt use the KJV.
@whodidyouexpect "The word pneuma, which is translated spirit, also means ‘life’ or ‘breath’." "Also, if God is a spirit and we have to worship him in spirit, do mortals have to leave our bodies to worship him? " (FAIRWIKI) one commentary insists, "It is a metaphor of his mode of operation, as life-giving power, and it is no more to be taken literally than 1 John 1:5, "God is light," or Deuteronomy 4:24"( J. N. Sanders, A Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John),
BEFORE YOU RESPOND, are all opinions of Peter, Paul, found in the Bible? No, what is found in the Bible is the doctrine (or should be like that). When MOses talk to the people, is everything that Moses said, in his entire life, infallible? You never know, maybe Paul (after his conversion) used to think that the earth was flat.
@MisioneriesinChile Is English your first language? (I see "Chile" in your name.) If not, no problem.
I left references for you. You don't have to take my word for it, unlike almost all Joseph Smith's claims. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young taught that [g]od was a man who became "God".
I don't worry that the Book of Mormon will ever be proven archaeologically. You just told me a feeling proved it true. I don't want any part of that kind of religion. I enjoy reality too much.
@whodidyouexpect I never said BoM was totally proven archeologically (maybe in the millennium). We can know its true, by the Holy Ghost, not by our own feelings. You left me a reference of Journal of Discourses, I want a reference of official statements or proclamations, or from the scripture. If its not there, than you can claim that the whole church accepts it as doctrine. Its like telling me the opinion of peter not found in the Bible. (I repeat, IF brigham young taught that)
To my knowledge the tanners have not succesfully explained some of the points of the Arabian evidence of the Book of Mormon. Neither have they explain all the points about the arabian evidence. Their explanations have problems. I think the best explanation (for an unbeliever) is that he got really lucky (like winning the lottery). Hey most native americans came from Asia, BoM people(the nephites) were near the lands of the Mayas. What about the city of Laman 500 BC?
That's it spin those lies and misinformation. Shame on you. As a 50 year mormon who finally stopped the twisting of truth, stop lying and misleading people. Joseph Smith was an immoral conman. HE did not write the farce of BOOK of MORMON. SIdney RIgdon did. To argue about this made up book is ridiculous. DO not be fooled by these charlatans. READ evidence from REAL historians it will tell you all you need to know. Mormonism is a cult and a lie.
@dieloreli I been talking with a lot atheist here in youtube, oh wow, they claim the same thing as you, but to the Bible. Sidney RIgdon wrote the Book of Mormon? Come on, their is probably more evidence that the first five books of Moses had multiple authors, than that claim. Ins't that claim problematic? Why do other anti-mormons have had other versions about the origins of the Book of Mormon? I don't think their is any hard evidence that Sidney Ridgon wrote the Book of Mormon.
@MisioneriesinChile Don't mean to interrupt your argument, but it is a little disingenuous to try to change the subject and critique the Bible instead of offering positive evidence for your own "scriptures". Instead, why not give us some positive evidence to support your belief that the BoM is what it claims to be, that is: a legitimate historical record of the Americas? Any evidence?
@whodidyouexpect Yes a lot of evidence, some remarkable, howerever no proof. However the convincible evidence are spiritual experiences that you need to experience yourself. "And that he manifesteth himself unto all those who believe in him, by the power of the Holy Ghost" He will not manifest to the hold world, unbelievers, at least not yet.
@MisioneriesinChile Yes, I've heard the argument before. I didn't ask for "proof", just some evidence. Feelings are nice, but they don't mean something is true, because they can change and mislead us. I'm big into sources. The Book of Mormon is supposed to be "from God" and translated "by the Power of God" by Joseph Smith. No record of the book in history; no record of "reformed Egyptian". Strange, isn't it? That doesn't "feel" right to me...
@whodidyouexpect (Arabia evidences?) Leih came to the Americas during the pre-classic maya period. So the nephites participated with the Mayas. Where (during the pre-classic period), are inscriptions to investigate? to where the Book of Mormon places are think to have been. We have very little from the pre-classic Maya were scholars think the Boof of Mormon lands are. (According to Dawkins there is no evidence for God's existence) I tell atheists, That does NOT mean that he doesn’t Exists.
If I may add one last word, the [g]od of Mormonism is a deified man; Brigham Young taught as doctrine that its [g]od was Adam (Journal of Discourses Vol. 1, p. 50; Deseret News June 18th, 1873). He was just following the template given by Joseph Smith in his King Follet speech (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 302-317). So, I hope Richard Dawkins never believes in that [g]od. I sure don't and would never.
@whodidyouexpect You wouldn't believe in the church even if the BoM were totaly proven archeologically? Hey please use LDS scriture or LDS Official statements and proclamations for your claims. (Thats the documentary base of the church). Please. I don't want to get in such a controversial subject about Brigham young, however I know that he was a true prophets.
@whodidyouexpect Even if he really teach that, its his opinion, its not in LDS official statements or proclamation. If you find that on official statements or proclamation(which you will not). Oh please tell me.
@whodidyouexpect To my knowledge, We even have verry little from the Pre-classic maya, there is still a lot of discovery to be made. We just know so little about them. However, if the Book of Mormon is confirmed archeologically, this church will also be proven, and the existence of God will be proven to Dawkins, and he would probably become a Mormon. However we can know that the Book of Mormon is true by the Holy ghost, not by our personal feelings.
I also wanted to add that I appreciate the honesty of people that appear in this video. It seems quite a contrast that they willingly admit that they are not sure where the events of the Book of Mormon happened when, in fact, Joseph Smith claimed that it was "the most correct of any book on Earth", since the adjective "correct" requires some standard of measurement. What was the standard he used in order to allow him to define it as not just "correct" but "the most correct"? Thoughts?
The most correct is very clearly meant to be used for the religions content of the book of Mormon, since it lacs the corruption of textual transmissions and translations that can change the original text as is the issue with the bible. Bom was written by a different civilization with different language and they gave the locations different names than the spanish did a lot later, therefore the correctness of the book has nothing to do with geographical locations.
@Jarkko1983 How exactly would you establish that the text of the Book of Mormon hasn't been corrupted in transmission if you have no original language text or copy thereof?
@whodidyouexpect It was Joseph Smith himself who made the statement "the most correct of any book". It was he who obtained and translated the "original language text". If one can accept the translation as divinely inspired, as well as the original writtings themselves, it would naturally follow that the book is the most correct of any, in terms of theological matters, and as concerning the fulness of the Gospel. It should also be remembered that 2/3rds of the BoM were sealed without translation.
@101mythbuster Even Jesus Himself said, "If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid." (John 5:31) So how can Joseph Smith's own testimony about the book he supposedly translated be valid? Why should it be accepted?
Regardless, your response overlooked the point of my question: There is no "original text" or even a copy of it to compare his "translation" with. So, there's no way to judge the accuracy of his work. Yet where we can test his work, he fails. (reference Book of Abraham)
@whodidyouexpect Joseph Smith never testified of his own ability to translate. Rather, he gave all the credit to the gift and power of God. It is a common mistake of critics to assume that this process was a literal, word for word, translation, when really, it was a revelation more than anything else, as is the case with the JST version of the Bible, and Book of Abraham. The only way to really confirm the accuracy of it all, is to recieve a testimony of it's divine inspiration and authorship.
I'm definitely not a Mormon, but I do appreciate this video; it is fair food for thought. However, I think the most telling part begins at the 31:31 mark when the question is asked "Where could the Book of Mormon have taken place?" That this is a question says something.
It says more that the actual internal map of the book of Mormon found in the text does fit the meso america. The fact that we can't say where it takes place is only when 100% accuracy is concerned, a lot of places can be found that are most likely the locations of the book of mormon, like the waters of mormon, bountiful, valley of lemuel, nahom, shazer to name just few, modern spanish names given by the conquistadors to american locations make 100% confirmation impossible.
@Jarkko1983 The Mormon apologists in the video openly admitted that the places that they designate as BoM lands could be completely wrong. You mentioned that the Spanish names make it impossible to confirm if they are or not. I understand that. So why didn't Joseph Smith translate the places names using their "modern Spanish names"?
@whodidyouexpect "So why didn't Joseph Smith translate the places names using their modern Spanish names?"
I'm sure that Mormon critics would have wasted no time in pointing out anachronisms had he done so.
In any case, those cities which the Spaniards named at the time of their arrival were entirely different, culturally speaking, even if they so happened to be in the same geographical location. Translating ancient city names into modern ones would have been a total inacurracy.
@whodidyouexpect You will notice that whenever the "Bible" is mentioned in the BoM, it is intended prophetically, referring to a future time in which, according to Nephi, the gentiles should proclaim "A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible" In fact, it is clear from the reading, that Mormon, the narrator of the entire volume, is clearly addressing a future generation, even as if he had actually seen our day.
Do you know of any common English alternative for the word Christ?
@101mythbuster Friend, the idea is that the words "Christ" and "Bible" come from Greek. If there was no Greek on the supposed tablets, then the only probably reason a Mormon could claim he used those words would be "because that's what everybody understands". So, if he used words in that way, then why not transliterate the places names in the BoM? Instead, Mormon apologists are running around trying to find even 1 place in the BoM. (There are hundreds of words used in the BoM with this problem.)
@whodidyouexpect What you fail to understand, is that, it wasn't Mormon himself who used Greek in writting his account, rather, it was Joseph Smith who used commonly known Greek equivalents in his translation. This could not be done with ancient Nephite cites that were desolated, and later repopulated and renamed by the Lamanites, and even later by the Spaniards. Do you not see the lack of logic in doing that? Your question really has no basis.
@101mythbuster You have misunderstood my question. Joseph Smith "translated" the plates (although he didn't use the plates in the process). You have restated my point for me: "Joseph Smith used commonly known Greek equivalents in his translation". Yes! So, why didn't he use commonly known Spanish equivalents to translate the place names so that people could actually find them?
How are "completely unsure" and "can't affirm it with absolute certainty" any different?
@whodidyouexpect As I stated in my previous post, ( which I'm not sure if you read, since I got no reply) Joseph's translation was actually a direct revelation, and therfore, did not require use of the plates. Their purpose was to serve more as a physical testimony for the intended witnessess.
As to your question, I believe I've already answered it. Simply put, substituting modern names for ancient cities would be completely misleading, not to mention, inconsitent witht the textual logic.
@101mythbuster Thanks for your reply. Have you seen the point yet? There are transliterated words and words which come from languages that were not on the supposed plates. If I may, let me add that the word "Christian" is used in Alma 46:15, a chapter whose introduction says that it was "About 73–72 B.C." So why did Joseph use that word? You will answer that he used what people understood. Exactly! Why not do the same with at least 1 place name?
@101mythbuster As for an alternative for Christ: Messiah. (A Hebrew transliteration.) Isn't Hebrew mentioned in the BoM? If so, why didn't Joseph Smith use that word instead of Christ? Again, a Mormon is left to say that he used what people understood. And that is the crux of the problem. Even the Mormon apologist in the video are completely unsure of where any single one of the places mentioned in the BoM is. They hide behind linguistic issues, yet the answer is obvious: The places don't exist.
@whodidyouexpect As expected, you took the easy way out. Actually though, Messiah is, in fact, found numerous times in the BoM. But like you said, it's a "transliteration" and not actual English, then again, so is Christ, and more commonly used than Messiah even. I suppose a more literal English translation would have been "anointed one", it just doesn't have the same effect.
@whodidyouexpect Mormon apologist have never stated they are "completely unsure" of anything! On the contrary, they have very well formed ideas and overwhelming evidence on BoM geography, as true archeologist they just can't affirm it with absolute certainty. Quite a contrast to BoM critics who are always so quick to make wild allegations.
@101mythbuster You avoided all of my questions. Very telling.
Also, since there is "overwhelming evidence on BoM geography" (that apparently didn't make it into this video), please share with all of us the modern / Spanish name of even one single BoM land (please avoid using "Jerusalem" for obvious reasons)? Just asking for 1.
@whodidyouexpect The video is meant to address specific claims made by critics, it hardly contains all there is on BoM archeology, but of course critics never make mention of the many evidences in favor. As far as modern archeological sites you ask for, how about ALL OF THEM! The hard part of course, is determining which cities are which. This is almost an impossible task. The BoM simply does not provide sufficent information, nor does it make mention of every single Jaredite & Nephite city.
@101mythbuster Ignore the sentence I wrote above, "You avoided all of my questions. Very telling." I just saw your other messages below. Sorry about that! (Youtube said I only had 1 new message.)
@101mythbuster By the way, after you share 1 piece of the "overwhelming evidence on BoM geography", please share with 1 common item found that supports the Book of Mormon, things like metal bars (used as money), chariots, large buildings, a fort, a javelin, a chain, a harp...anything.
@whodidyouexpect Perhaps you've heard of the lost Mayan city recently discovered in Mirador, Guatemala. It is estimated to be larger than the the city of Los Angeles. I've spoken with a Mormon archeologist who's spent years in Yucatan & Cent. Am. He estimates roughly only 2% of ancient new world remains have been uncovered, and 98% still remains burried in the vast jungles. In terms of archeological evidence for the BoM, we've barley scratched the surface. 1 example doesn't do enough justice.
@101mythbuster Thanks for the up-to-date information. How does the discovery of a lost Mayan city prove anything from the Book of Mormon? Can you share specifics with us? 2 questions on a slightly different note: Were the Mayans using "reformed Egyptian" to keep records? Is there any reference to any part of the text of the Book of Mormon in history?
@whodidyouexpect If you really wish to know about BoM archeological findings, please visit the websites for FARMS & FAIRLDSorg. There is also many books published on the topic found at Deseret book store.
@101mythbuster Thanks! I have many Book of Abraham articles from those sites. Do you have any non-Mormon Web sites to share? Are there any non-Mormon archaeologists using the Book of Mormon to make discoveries?
@whodidyouexpect I watch a documentary, were they claimed that no person from Genesis to Deuteronomy, has been confirmed, that their is no evidence for their existence. Their is no hard evidence that the exodus happen. Actually, not yet, maybe after the second coming. You get to know the Book of Mormon is true by spiritual experiences. I believe both in the Book of Mormon and the Bible.
@MisioneriesinChile Thanks for your input. However, let's stick to the subject. We're not discussing the Bible, we're discussing claims of the Book of Mormon. For the BoM to be "comparable to the Bible" (as is claimed in the BoM introduction), it must be able to withstand the same scrutiny. Don't you think it's strange that there are no known geographical locations, no artifacts, no record of the BoM text in history? What does that imply?
@whodidyouexpect "Don't you think it's strange" Hey were is the evidence that there was an exodus, 2 million israelites, archeologist Eric H. Cline , said said there was nothing. I cannot explain that, but I believe that Bible is the Word of God, however I could explain the Book of Mormon and I have a rational explanations for those questions that you are asking me.
@MisioneriesinChile From my experience, many times Mormons, such as yourself, change the subject and like to point to this and that problem instead of offering a positive case for their own "scriptures". Again, we're not discussing the Bible. We're discussing the Book of Mormon. Can you share some positive evidence? (Pointing out an apparent problem in archaeology in another text isn't positive evidence.)
@whodidyouexpect yes, they admit they can't know for sure, but they have a very good idea where it happened most likely according to current data. Why should have smith translated using the spanish names? those aren't the real names, second, smith didn't know those spanish names, and many of the places that we think could be nephite/lamanite sites, weren't found when the book was being translated. But I wouldn't translate ancient city name as Helsinki if that's not the real original name.
This is a response to the anti-Mormon video "Bible vs The Book of Mormon", produced by faithful Latter-day Saints. FAIR interviewed scholars from many fields to test the claims made by critics in a critical video, and found that it is inaccurate at best.
Not a bad video, but really, it's a bit dry, don't you think? I mean no music, the same talking guys, etc. Good content, but could use a little more...seasoning, if you will.
I would like to see Mormon Scholar debate Christian Scholars. It would be good. You guys should engage Christian scholars in Public Debate.
travismification 1 week ago
@travismification LDS generally don't debate, but you will still find an occasional debate now and then. We have a debate on our site between James White (Christian), and Daniel C Peterson (LDS) that you may be interested in.
fairldsorg 1 week ago
@fairldsorg Yes I have listen to that already and I have also listen to a debate between another Mormon Scholar and James White also. THanks alot.
travismification 1 week ago
Those of you anti mormon, we invite you to read the book of mormon, ponder it in your heart and then ask God the Eternal Father , in the name of Jesus Christ if the book is true, for me i know The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is the only true church here on earth Joseph Smith was a prophet of God
fernandezcharls 2 weeks ago
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TruthBuser 3 weeks ago
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TruthBuser 3 weeks ago
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ZekarPhoto 3 weeks ago
show me the golden tablets...
MrWildone17 1 month ago
@MrWildone17 Show me the 10 commandments written in stone, the Ark of the Covenant or Noah's ark. Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.
bigbuggie5 2 days ago
of course the Book of Mormon is scripture...and true
littleiamful 1 month ago
I don´t like the way it is presented, it is not certain most of the information share, they shouldn´t use words such as they did not have if the book of mormon says they did...
rubenlds 3 months ago
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The most quoted verse of the Bible shows mormonisim to be flawed, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that who so ever would believe on Him would not die but have everlasting life." Notice, His ONLY begotten son. Lds people think Jesus and satan are brothers, this one scripture prooves that wrong.
Grinthor86 3 months ago
@Grinthor86 JESUS IS THE ONLY BEGOTEN SON OF GOD IN THE FLESH...
davelerthing21 1 month ago
Thank you so much for this video. :) It'd really added to my testimony.
vvh473v3r 4 months ago
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"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
Galatians 1:8 (KJV).
So this verse from the bible doesn't contridict the book of mormon at all?
shadowed366 5 months ago
What a waste of time! I was really interested about seeing "THE EVIDENCE" in this video, not just listening words. At least they could have interviewed some Non LDS Scholars or Archeologists to support them.
MundoOleAE 5 months ago
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@MundoOleAE " I was really interested about seeing "THE EVIDENCE" in this video, not just listening words."
Please explain how words listen. I didn't know that they could.
"At least they could have interviewed some Non LDS Scholars or Archeologists to support them."
Yeah, sure. Likewise, the producers of the original film could have used some Mormon scholars to support THEIR view.
This video is anything but a waste of time. Indeed, it is well worth the time to watch.
0515stan 1 month ago
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TheSoulamore 6 months ago
@TheSoulamore Please keep your anti-mormon nonsense out of public. Thank you so much.
Of course the Bible and the Book of Mormon are holy Scripture.
Of course Paul does not compare to Jesus.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSoulamore National Geographic is one of the most respected scientific organizations in the world. They have the real archaeologists (including a Mormon), with the real research.
Archaeology does NOT support --
1)The Exodus
2) the walls of Jericho at the time of Joshua
3) that Jonah got the people of Assyrian of Nineveh capital to repent
4) Solomon's "glorious" "empire"
5) Book of Genesis
Matthew 2, the Execution of babies in New Testament, is not mentioned by any historian.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
propaganda like this is why Christians hate Mormons
jayhawk88z 6 months ago
@jayhawk88z christians dont hate anyone.
hellosunshine4750 4 weeks ago
Scary thing is that this film states that Mormons neither believe that the Bible or the Book of Mormon is sound and without fault. REALLY they all live a life following something faulty in their mind. So sad! Of course 100% is not proven in the Bible...hello it is a book of history. The truth is that numerous things in the Bible have been proven and are without a doubt true. Deuteronomy 18:22
pritcha07 6 months ago
@pritcha07 Oh yea? Well please feel free to provide us the arc of the covenant, or any proof of Hebrews in Egyptian captivity? You are not born again, and you have not entered the straight gate according to Matt 7.
LDS4Life71 6 months ago
@pritcha07 I am sorry, but archaeology does not support the BIble, and its going against its history.
TheSkepticChristian 6 months ago
Let's just dig up Cumorah and get it over with.
mike8335088 6 months ago
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aimeecurry46 7 months ago
@machandxb This is part 1 of a 13 part series and only discusses their view of the video. We have a playlist of videos called "Bible vs The Book of Mormon answered." Also, you can read a more detailed rebuttal in the links provided above.
fairldsorg 9 months ago
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@fairldsorg Okey,Thanks, will check it out.
machandxb 9 months ago
Both are equally bullshit.
uiruu 10 months ago
@uiruu You mean both sides of your brain.
LDS4Life71 6 months ago
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I will answer the rest of the questions another time, i have to go. anti-mormons such as Brodie, have accuse of Joseph Smith being to father of some people, however DNA evidence has disproven that claim. DOn't worry, joseph smith is NOT my GOd, I believe in God the father, his son JEsus christ, and the HOly ghost.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
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I will answer the rest of the questions another time, i have to go. anti-mormons such as Brodie, have accuse of Joseph Smith being the father of some people, however DNA evidence has disproven that claim. DOn't worry, joseph smith is NOT my GOd, I believe in God the father, his son JEsus christ, and the HOly ghost.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
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MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
nobody asked you for your testimony, just answer the questions. and who are you to say that the mormon church is the true church of jesus christ? If I claim to be the king of cheese doesn't mean that I actually am.
esisthebest 1 year ago
@esisthebest 1) First vision story did NOT evolve, New information of the whole story was been added with time. Example: we are not going to learn everything about the USA presidents in 1st grade, just part of their story, we start to know more details when we get to hight school.
2) Joseph Smith, Prophet of GOD, was sealed to other women, IT was NOT for lustful motives.I am not aware of DNA evidence confirming that he had children with them other than with EMMA. DNA has proven the contrary.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
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MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@esisthebest The name of the true church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I say it is because that's what the Spirit of God has let me know to be true. Who are you to talk against what Christ established?
majinish 1 year ago
Alright if I have time to get on tomorrow I will continue this conversation. It was nice talking with you. I hope you have a great night.
xSTEVIEx24 1 year ago
@xSTEVIEx24 thanks, good night. I really have to go now.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@xSTEVIEx24 Hey anti-mormon? how are you?
TheSkepticChristian 11 months ago
HEy I will answer your easy questions tomorrow, I have to go to sleep now, I have school tomorrow. Send me your questions in a private message. and please, stop attacking the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints, especially becuase its the true church of Jesus Christ .Also I respect your beliefs, I don't go attacking them.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
sorry to change the subject, In a national geographic article, it claims " One would be hard pressed to find a legitimate scientist today who does not believe in evolution" " In a 1997 survey in the science journal Nature, 40 percent of U.S. scientists said they believe in God—not just a creator, but a God to whom one can pray in expectation of an answer. That is the same percentage of scientists who were believers when the survey was taken 80 years earlier. " What do you say about this??
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
Hey, remember when you admitted that God and Jesus are the same person? Yeah me too. That kind of contradicts the LDS beliefs doesn't it?
xSTEVIEx24 1 year ago
@xSTEVIEx24 Never said, that God the FATHER is the same as Jesus. They are both part of the GODHEAD.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
but don't worry those questions are really easy to answer .(but first I have to clarify something, I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of GOD. I know that the Book of Mormon is true and also the Bible) there, now I could answer to your easy questions in a private message if you want.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
"Hey guys what do you think of evolution?" Way to change the subject.
xSTEVIEx24 1 year ago
I think Dawkins is a greater challenge, hey you guys what do you think of evolution??
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
So why did I win. 1) I clearly explained that John 4: 24 was not literal. 2) if to them God is spirit, they couldn't explain to me why Jesus Christ became flesh and still be GOD without contracting John 4:24. Clearly the WORD is GOD in John 1:1 3) never explained to me about Deut 34:5
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
Let's talk about how Joseph Smith gave 9 DIFFERENT accounts of his visitation in the woods when he was praying. Let's talk about how Joseph Smith had 27 wives. Let's talk about how Joseph Smith carried around a jupiters talisman almost his whole life (I'd look that up if you don't know what it is). Let's talk about how Joseph Smith made false prophecies. Let's talk about it.
TriplXThreat 1 year ago
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@TriplXThreat "Let's talk about how Joseph Smith had 27 wives" actually acording to historian todd compton he had 33. And its a really easy question to answer. All of your questions. I think atheist anti-mormons are more intellectual than religious anti-mormons.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat Those questions are really easy to answer. and according to historian Todd Compton he had 33. I think atheist anti-mormons are more intellectual than religious anti-mormons.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat 1 question) to me the first vision did not evolve, but it got clearer over time. I could claim the same thing about the doctrine of the trinity, that it evolved with time. You don't even find the word trinity in the Bible.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
God plays street hockey.
esisthebest 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat Hey maybe you misunderstood what I said, I was asking you some questions. I know about John1;1. Jesus christ is GOD!
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
God listens to slayer.
esisthebest 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat HEy Baptist say one thing about the Bible, pentecostal another, I mean who to believe?????? JW, adventist, I could go for ever. And I do know what the BIble says, I watched my national geographic documentaries of the Bible.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat By the way, if you study the context of Rev 22: 18--19 its talking about Rev 1:11. And both the Bible and teh Book of mormon are the word of GOD.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@MisioneriesinChile You're welcome to BELIEVE that, but that's clearly not in accordance with the Bible.
TriplXThreat 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat So it appears that you know what the BIble really says, go tell that to the other religions please, and convince them.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
The Dead Sea Scrolls are dead on with The Bible we have today. So that's how I know that The Bible I have is correct compared to your rewrite version of The Bible. So the Dead Sea Scrolls have proven what The BIble says. Also you are avoiding my question in why its ok to add prophecies because that's not a translation that is just plain adding things.
xSTEVIEx24 1 year ago
@xSTEVIEx24 "Also you are avoiding my question in why its ok to add prophecies " its okay to add prophecies, becuase prophecies are the WORD OF GOD. Why do we need BOOK OF revelations then??? if we already have the 4 gospels.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@xSTEVIEx24 I am reading the Bible wrong???? TEll me who has proven what the BIble says??? So many different interpretations.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Revelation 22:18-19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
I guess if people have changed the Bible God will judge them.
TriplXThreat 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat I agree with you, the word of GOD shall stand forever, even in the times of Isaiah were Malachia as not been written yet. YEs anyone who adds or takes away from the word of GOD which is in the Bible and the Book of mormon. that is something real bad.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat I agree with you, the word of GOD shall stand forever, even in the times of Isaiah were Malachia as not been written yet. YEs anyone who adds or takes away from the word of GOD which is in the Bible and the Book of mormon. that is something real bad. anyways, I think I win the debate, you two are not answering my questions, and I am answering yours.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@xSTEVIEx24 see thats evidence that you dont understand JST. Joesph smith on the JST is not rewriting it, but its explaining the scripture.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
but don't worry I do believe the BIble and the Book of Mormon are the word of GOD.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat I am asking if according to you (God is Jesus) then was he GOD while in the flesh?? John 4:24, according to you???? and noone has answered Deut 34:5, I am ignorant in the doctrine of the trinity?? I watch a lot of debates between pentecostals and baptist.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@xSTEVIEx24 Their is plenty of evidence that the BIble got altered. Some scholars think that the first 5 books of moses had multiple-authors. However, some of the JST is just commentary, explains the scriptures. Yes there are some restorations, but we are not sure if the restorations, restore the scripture as it was in the original manuscripts or if it only was restoration of doctrine.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
Now, according to John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In verse 14, it talks about the Word becoming flesh (Jesus) and dwelling among us. If the Word is God and God is the Word (according to John 1:1), and the Word became flesh (Jesus), doesn't that make Jesus and God the same since they are both the Word??
TriplXThreat 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat No one can proof what the bible says, oneness pentecostals interpret that scripture differently. Hey but you never answer my question John 4:24 and John 1:1, 14. By the way it says, with GOD. two persons not one. The WORD with the FATHER
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat John 1:1 says and the word was GOD. John 1:17 says he became flesh, so according to you, Jesus was not GOD when he became flesh??????????
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
New Translation of The Bible by Joseph Smith. Look it up then tell me he never rewrote The Bible.
xSTEVIEx24 1 year ago
@xSTEVIEx24 I have the inspired version. I said that you don't understand it. Joseph smith did not rewrite the Bible.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
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MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
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MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
The word pneuma, which is translated spirit, also means ‘life’ or ‘breath’." "Also, if God is a spirit and we have to worship him in spirit, do mortals have to leave our bodies to worship him? " (FAIRWIKI) one commentary insists, "It is a metaphor of his mode of operation, as life-giving power, and it is no more to be taken literally than 1 John 1:5, "God is light," or Deuteronomy 4:24"( J. N. Sanders, A Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John),
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also.
Doctrine and Covenants section 130:22
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24
I am the first and the last, and there is no God besides Me.
Isaiah 44:6
I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God.
Isaiah 45:5
Tell me why Joseph Smith taught something that is very very contradicting to the Bible. Did God lie?
TriplXThreat 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat No one has been able to proof what the Bible really says, ask a onennes pentecotal, ask a jehovah's witness, ask a church of christ(not refering to lds(but lds is the church of christ))
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat You said God is spirit, so according to you Jesus was not GOD??? John 1:1 and the word became flesh
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat The word pneuma, which is translated spirit, also means ‘life’ or ‘breath’." "Also, if God is a spirit and we have to worship him in spirit, do mortals have to leave our bodies to worship him? " (FAIRWIKI) one commentary insists, "It is a metaphor of his mode of operation, as life-giving power, and it is no more to be taken literally than 1 John 1:5, "God is light," or Deuteronomy 4:24"( J. N. Sanders, A Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John),
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat "The word pneuma, which is translated spirit, also means ‘life’ or ‘breath’." "Also, if God is a spirit and we have to worship him in spirit, do mortals have to leave our bodies to worship him? " (FAIRWIKI) one commentary insists, "It is a metaphor of his mode of operation, as life-giving power, and it is no more to be taken literally than 1 John 1:5, "God is light," or Deuteronomy 4:24"( J. N. Sanders, A Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John).
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat "The word pneuma, which is translated spirit, also means ‘life’ or ‘breath’. (FAIRWIKI). Also one commentary insists, "It is a metaphor of his mode of operation, as life-giving power, and it is no more to be taken literally than 1 John 1:5, "God is light," or Deuteronomy 4:24"( J. N. Sanders, A Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John).
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat To answer your question, The word pneuma, which is translated spirit, also means ‘life’ or ‘breath’." and one commentary insists, "It is a metaphor of his mode of operation, as life-giving power, and it is no more to be taken literally than 1 John 1:5, "God is light," or Deuteronomy 4:24"( J. N. Sanders, A Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John).
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@xSTEVIEx24 Joseph Smith never rewrote the Bible. You don't understand what JST is. Please. and I am not attacking the Bible. I believe the Bible is the word of GOD.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@xSTEVIEx24 can you explain to me Deuteronomy 34:5?? and also John 1:17 please.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat Yes we admit it, we don't believe in the trinity, becuase we belief God the Father, and our LORD JESUS CHIRST are separate beings. But we believe in JEsus christ.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@TriplXThreat ?????????????? Gordon B Hinckley admited what???? anyways, the Bible and the book of mormon are the word of GOD. Let me ask you a question, why do you accept Paul's letters and the Book of revelations if we already have the four gospels??????????
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
By putting down The Bible ,doesn't that put down The Book of Moromon? If The Bible isn't true, than how would The Book of Mormon be true? Without The Bible there would be no Book of Mormon. So why does this video and why do people of the LDS church attack The Bible and try to prove things wrong with it, when people prove things wrong with The Book of Mormon? Just wondering if someone could answer that for me please. Thank you.
xSTEVIEx24 1 year ago
@xSTEVIEx24 We believe the Bible to be the word of God. The reason we are discussing a few of the controversies surrounding it, is because in the original anti-Mormon video, they paint the Bible to be perfect, while the Book of Mormon to be full of flaws. We wanted to show that both sets of scripture share many of the same problems and one cannot claim that one is not scripture because of certain problems, while accepting the other that has the very same problems.
fairldsorg 1 year ago
It will be added to the canon, or it will be made a official church declaration.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
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it will be added to the canon, or will become a church official declaration.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
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MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
What prophets today do, they base the DOCTRINE of their inspired talks on the Scriptures (doctrine that has already been revealed), and they apply them to our days, and circumstances so that we can have success in this life. When God reveals new doctrine, we will most likely have new canonize scripture or it will be in the official church statements/proclamations.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. If God is spirit (John 4:24), is the Bible contraditing itself (John1:14)? Or was John 4:24 only talking about the FATHER? It seems to me (according to me) that they are not the same being. They are two beings. I believe both in the Bible and the Book of Mormon as the word of GOD.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@MisioneriesinChile Let's end here. You're not addressing the issue, the BoM.
Good-meaning people, such as yourself, do nothing to change that Mormonism is a fraud perpetrated by a succession of frauds. Joseph Smith taught that [g]od was a man. Brigham Young taught it, too. You now know, so you can't claim ignorance. You stand before Christ Jesus in the resurrection and tell Him that you believed in Joseph Smith and his claims. I don't have time to respond to anymore of your comments. Sorry!
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect Okay but its not in any official church statement or proclamation. Maybe Peter taugh that God used to be a man, as his personal opinion. but its not in the Bible. So please use official church, or scripture. Joseph smith is in this list, (Discovery Channel, Greatest American: Top 100) by the way. Joseph Smith was just a mortal man and a servent of Jesus Christ.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect I am not interested in what joseph smith said IF it is not in the LDS scriptures, bible, or official church statements/proclamations. (He didn't say something real bad or did something real bad, anyways) Joseph SMith is NOT my GOD. If we find documents of Peter's opinions, but are not in the bible, would you be interested? God's word given to Joseph Smith is found in D&C
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
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MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect Actually I don't deny that possibility. I consider it as a possibility. However, its not clear what Joseph Smith meant. This is a controversial subject. However, I am not aware of any single document approved by the first presidency, declared as official proclamation or statement, that explains that or clarifies what Joseph Smith said, or even emphasize it. Little is known about that subject. Do you know what official church position is? (No, Pres. Hinckley did not deny it)
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
Hey if you can show me something in the LDS official proclamation, or scripture as false, that Brigham Young taught, as being false. Then that will make him a false prophets.(However you would not be able to prove it false, becuase Brigham Young was really a prophet of GOD) Just like some people thought, that Wilford Woodruff was a false prophet becuase of the (official declaration 1). However, Oficial declaration 1 came from God, and Wilford Woodruff was also a prophet.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@MisioneriesinChile D&C 130:22 - "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s..."
Jesus said, "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24)
And:
"For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” (Luke 24:39)
Who are you going to believe, Joseph Smith or Jesus? (You can't follow 2 masters.)
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect Thankyou for using scripture. You can't disproof a world religion with the Bible. People interpret the Bible many ways. Like J.W., Oneness pentecostals see John 1:1. So its your interpretation. So according to you, Jesus is not GOD while he is in the flesh ? "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."(NASB John 1:14). I didnt use the KJV.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect "The word pneuma, which is translated spirit, also means ‘life’ or ‘breath’." "Also, if God is a spirit and we have to worship him in spirit, do mortals have to leave our bodies to worship him? " (FAIRWIKI) one commentary insists, "It is a metaphor of his mode of operation, as life-giving power, and it is no more to be taken literally than 1 John 1:5, "God is light," or Deuteronomy 4:24"( J. N. Sanders, A Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John),
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
Besides the most powerful evidence, that comes from the Holy Ghost. The Book of Mormon has many other powerful evidences(not proof).
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
BEFORE YOU RESPOND, are all opinions of Peter, Paul, found in the Bible? No, what is found in the Bible is the doctrine (or should be like that). When MOses talk to the people, is everything that Moses said, in his entire life, infallible? You never know, maybe Paul (after his conversion) used to think that the earth was flat.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@MisioneriesinChile Is English your first language? (I see "Chile" in your name.) If not, no problem.
I left references for you. You don't have to take my word for it, unlike almost all Joseph Smith's claims. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young taught that [g]od was a man who became "God".
I don't worry that the Book of Mormon will ever be proven archaeologically. You just told me a feeling proved it true. I don't want any part of that kind of religion. I enjoy reality too much.
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect I never said BoM was totally proven archeologically (maybe in the millennium). We can know its true, by the Holy Ghost, not by our own feelings. You left me a reference of Journal of Discourses, I want a reference of official statements or proclamations, or from the scripture. If its not there, than you can claim that the whole church accepts it as doctrine. Its like telling me the opinion of peter not found in the Bible. (I repeat, IF brigham young taught that)
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
Hey But I am not saying, that He teach that, I said, IF he teach that.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
To my knowledge the tanners have not succesfully explained some of the points of the Arabian evidence of the Book of Mormon. Neither have they explain all the points about the arabian evidence. Their explanations have problems. I think the best explanation (for an unbeliever) is that he got really lucky (like winning the lottery). Hey most native americans came from Asia, BoM people(the nephites) were near the lands of the Mayas. What about the city of Laman 500 BC?
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
That's it spin those lies and misinformation. Shame on you. As a 50 year mormon who finally stopped the twisting of truth, stop lying and misleading people. Joseph Smith was an immoral conman. HE did not write the farce of BOOK of MORMON. SIdney RIgdon did. To argue about this made up book is ridiculous. DO not be fooled by these charlatans. READ evidence from REAL historians it will tell you all you need to know. Mormonism is a cult and a lie.
dieloreli 1 year ago
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MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@dieloreli I been talking with a lot atheist here in youtube, oh wow, they claim the same thing as you, but to the Bible. Sidney RIgdon wrote the Book of Mormon? Come on, their is probably more evidence that the first five books of Moses had multiple authors, than that claim. Ins't that claim problematic? Why do other anti-mormons have had other versions about the origins of the Book of Mormon? I don't think their is any hard evidence that Sidney Ridgon wrote the Book of Mormon.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@MisioneriesinChile Don't mean to interrupt your argument, but it is a little disingenuous to try to change the subject and critique the Bible instead of offering positive evidence for your own "scriptures". Instead, why not give us some positive evidence to support your belief that the BoM is what it claims to be, that is: a legitimate historical record of the Americas? Any evidence?
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect Yes a lot of evidence, some remarkable, howerever no proof. However the convincible evidence are spiritual experiences that you need to experience yourself. "And that he manifesteth himself unto all those who believe in him, by the power of the Holy Ghost" He will not manifest to the hold world, unbelievers, at least not yet.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@MisioneriesinChile Yes, I've heard the argument before. I didn't ask for "proof", just some evidence. Feelings are nice, but they don't mean something is true, because they can change and mislead us. I'm big into sources. The Book of Mormon is supposed to be "from God" and translated "by the Power of God" by Joseph Smith. No record of the book in history; no record of "reformed Egyptian". Strange, isn't it? That doesn't "feel" right to me...
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect (Arabia evidences?) Leih came to the Americas during the pre-classic maya period. So the nephites participated with the Mayas. Where (during the pre-classic period), are inscriptions to investigate? to where the Book of Mormon places are think to have been. We have very little from the pre-classic Maya were scholars think the Boof of Mormon lands are. (According to Dawkins there is no evidence for God's existence) I tell atheists, That does NOT mean that he doesn’t Exists.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
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MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@MisioneriesinChile Well, this conversation is going nowhere.
If I may add one last word, the [g]od of Mormonism is a deified man; Brigham Young taught as doctrine that its [g]od was Adam (Journal of Discourses Vol. 1, p. 50; Deseret News June 18th, 1873). He was just following the template given by Joseph Smith in his King Follet speech (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 302-317). So, I hope Richard Dawkins never believes in that [g]od. I sure don't and would never.
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect You wouldn't believe in the church even if the BoM were totaly proven archeologically? Hey please use LDS scriture or LDS Official statements and proclamations for your claims. (Thats the documentary base of the church). Please. I don't want to get in such a controversial subject about Brigham young, however I know that he was a true prophets.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect Even if he really teach that, its his opinion, its not in LDS official statements or proclamation. If you find that on official statements or proclamation(which you will not). Oh please tell me.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect To my knowledge, We even have verry little from the Pre-classic maya, there is still a lot of discovery to be made. We just know so little about them. However, if the Book of Mormon is confirmed archeologically, this church will also be proven, and the existence of God will be proven to Dawkins, and he would probably become a Mormon. However we can know that the Book of Mormon is true by the Holy ghost, not by our personal feelings.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
I also wanted to add that I appreciate the honesty of people that appear in this video. It seems quite a contrast that they willingly admit that they are not sure where the events of the Book of Mormon happened when, in fact, Joseph Smith claimed that it was "the most correct of any book on Earth", since the adjective "correct" requires some standard of measurement. What was the standard he used in order to allow him to define it as not just "correct" but "the most correct"? Thoughts?
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect
The most correct is very clearly meant to be used for the religions content of the book of Mormon, since it lacs the corruption of textual transmissions and translations that can change the original text as is the issue with the bible. Bom was written by a different civilization with different language and they gave the locations different names than the spanish did a lot later, therefore the correctness of the book has nothing to do with geographical locations.
Jarkko1983 1 year ago
@Jarkko1983 How exactly would you establish that the text of the Book of Mormon hasn't been corrupted in transmission if you have no original language text or copy thereof?
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect It was Joseph Smith himself who made the statement "the most correct of any book". It was he who obtained and translated the "original language text". If one can accept the translation as divinely inspired, as well as the original writtings themselves, it would naturally follow that the book is the most correct of any, in terms of theological matters, and as concerning the fulness of the Gospel. It should also be remembered that 2/3rds of the BoM were sealed without translation.
101mythbuster 1 year ago
@101mythbuster Even Jesus Himself said, "If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid." (John 5:31) So how can Joseph Smith's own testimony about the book he supposedly translated be valid? Why should it be accepted?
Regardless, your response overlooked the point of my question: There is no "original text" or even a copy of it to compare his "translation" with. So, there's no way to judge the accuracy of his work. Yet where we can test his work, he fails. (reference Book of Abraham)
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect Joseph Smith never testified of his own ability to translate. Rather, he gave all the credit to the gift and power of God. It is a common mistake of critics to assume that this process was a literal, word for word, translation, when really, it was a revelation more than anything else, as is the case with the JST version of the Bible, and Book of Abraham. The only way to really confirm the accuracy of it all, is to recieve a testimony of it's divine inspiration and authorship.
101mythbuster 1 year ago
I'm definitely not a Mormon, but I do appreciate this video; it is fair food for thought. However, I think the most telling part begins at the 31:31 mark when the question is asked "Where could the Book of Mormon have taken place?" That this is a question says something.
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect
It says more that the actual internal map of the book of Mormon found in the text does fit the meso america. The fact that we can't say where it takes place is only when 100% accuracy is concerned, a lot of places can be found that are most likely the locations of the book of mormon, like the waters of mormon, bountiful, valley of lemuel, nahom, shazer to name just few, modern spanish names given by the conquistadors to american locations make 100% confirmation impossible.
Jarkko1983 1 year ago
@Jarkko1983 The Mormon apologists in the video openly admitted that the places that they designate as BoM lands could be completely wrong. You mentioned that the Spanish names make it impossible to confirm if they are or not. I understand that. So why didn't Joseph Smith translate the places names using their "modern Spanish names"?
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect "So why didn't Joseph Smith translate the places names using their modern Spanish names?"
I'm sure that Mormon critics would have wasted no time in pointing out anachronisms had he done so.
In any case, those cities which the Spaniards named at the time of their arrival were entirely different, culturally speaking, even if they so happened to be in the same geographical location. Translating ancient city names into modern ones would have been a total inacurracy.
101mythbuster 1 year ago
@101mythbuster You're caught in a bind. Let me show you the bind through your response to these two questions:
Why is the word "Christ" in the Book of Mormon?
Why is the word "Bible" in the Book of Mormon?
(After all, Joseph Smith said there was no Greek or Latin on the supposed plates [Times and Seasons, vol. 4. no. 13, May 15, 1843, pg. 194].)
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect You will notice that whenever the "Bible" is mentioned in the BoM, it is intended prophetically, referring to a future time in which, according to Nephi, the gentiles should proclaim "A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible" In fact, it is clear from the reading, that Mormon, the narrator of the entire volume, is clearly addressing a future generation, even as if he had actually seen our day.
Do you know of any common English alternative for the word Christ?
101mythbuster 1 year ago
@101mythbuster Friend, the idea is that the words "Christ" and "Bible" come from Greek. If there was no Greek on the supposed tablets, then the only probably reason a Mormon could claim he used those words would be "because that's what everybody understands". So, if he used words in that way, then why not transliterate the places names in the BoM? Instead, Mormon apologists are running around trying to find even 1 place in the BoM. (There are hundreds of words used in the BoM with this problem.)
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect What you fail to understand, is that, it wasn't Mormon himself who used Greek in writting his account, rather, it was Joseph Smith who used commonly known Greek equivalents in his translation. This could not be done with ancient Nephite cites that were desolated, and later repopulated and renamed by the Lamanites, and even later by the Spaniards. Do you not see the lack of logic in doing that? Your question really has no basis.
101mythbuster 1 year ago
@101mythbuster You have misunderstood my question. Joseph Smith "translated" the plates (although he didn't use the plates in the process). You have restated my point for me: "Joseph Smith used commonly known Greek equivalents in his translation". Yes! So, why didn't he use commonly known Spanish equivalents to translate the place names so that people could actually find them?
How are "completely unsure" and "can't affirm it with absolute certainty" any different?
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect As I stated in my previous post, ( which I'm not sure if you read, since I got no reply) Joseph's translation was actually a direct revelation, and therfore, did not require use of the plates. Their purpose was to serve more as a physical testimony for the intended witnessess.
As to your question, I believe I've already answered it. Simply put, substituting modern names for ancient cities would be completely misleading, not to mention, inconsitent witht the textual logic.
101mythbuster 1 year ago
@101mythbuster Thanks for your reply. Have you seen the point yet? There are transliterated words and words which come from languages that were not on the supposed plates. If I may, let me add that the word "Christian" is used in Alma 46:15, a chapter whose introduction says that it was "About 73–72 B.C." So why did Joseph use that word? You will answer that he used what people understood. Exactly! Why not do the same with at least 1 place name?
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@101mythbuster As for an alternative for Christ: Messiah. (A Hebrew transliteration.) Isn't Hebrew mentioned in the BoM? If so, why didn't Joseph Smith use that word instead of Christ? Again, a Mormon is left to say that he used what people understood. And that is the crux of the problem. Even the Mormon apologist in the video are completely unsure of where any single one of the places mentioned in the BoM is. They hide behind linguistic issues, yet the answer is obvious: The places don't exist.
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect As expected, you took the easy way out. Actually though, Messiah is, in fact, found numerous times in the BoM. But like you said, it's a "transliteration" and not actual English, then again, so is Christ, and more commonly used than Messiah even. I suppose a more literal English translation would have been "anointed one", it just doesn't have the same effect.
101mythbuster 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect Mormon apologist have never stated they are "completely unsure" of anything! On the contrary, they have very well formed ideas and overwhelming evidence on BoM geography, as true archeologist they just can't affirm it with absolute certainty. Quite a contrast to BoM critics who are always so quick to make wild allegations.
101mythbuster 1 year ago
@101mythbuster You avoided all of my questions. Very telling.
Also, since there is "overwhelming evidence on BoM geography" (that apparently didn't make it into this video), please share with all of us the modern / Spanish name of even one single BoM land (please avoid using "Jerusalem" for obvious reasons)? Just asking for 1.
Thanks!
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect The video is meant to address specific claims made by critics, it hardly contains all there is on BoM archeology, but of course critics never make mention of the many evidences in favor. As far as modern archeological sites you ask for, how about ALL OF THEM! The hard part of course, is determining which cities are which. This is almost an impossible task. The BoM simply does not provide sufficent information, nor does it make mention of every single Jaredite & Nephite city.
101mythbuster 1 year ago
@101mythbuster Ignore the sentence I wrote above, "You avoided all of my questions. Very telling." I just saw your other messages below. Sorry about that! (Youtube said I only had 1 new message.)
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@101mythbuster By the way, after you share 1 piece of the "overwhelming evidence on BoM geography", please share with 1 common item found that supports the Book of Mormon, things like metal bars (used as money), chariots, large buildings, a fort, a javelin, a chain, a harp...anything.
Thanks!
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect Perhaps you've heard of the lost Mayan city recently discovered in Mirador, Guatemala. It is estimated to be larger than the the city of Los Angeles. I've spoken with a Mormon archeologist who's spent years in Yucatan & Cent. Am. He estimates roughly only 2% of ancient new world remains have been uncovered, and 98% still remains burried in the vast jungles. In terms of archeological evidence for the BoM, we've barley scratched the surface. 1 example doesn't do enough justice.
101mythbuster 1 year ago
@101mythbuster Thanks for the up-to-date information. How does the discovery of a lost Mayan city prove anything from the Book of Mormon? Can you share specifics with us? 2 questions on a slightly different note: Were the Mayans using "reformed Egyptian" to keep records? Is there any reference to any part of the text of the Book of Mormon in history?
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect If you really wish to know about BoM archeological findings, please visit the websites for FARMS & FAIRLDSorg. There is also many books published on the topic found at Deseret book store.
101mythbuster 1 year ago
@101mythbuster Thanks! I have many Book of Abraham articles from those sites. Do you have any non-Mormon Web sites to share? Are there any non-Mormon archaeologists using the Book of Mormon to make discoveries?
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect I watch a documentary, were they claimed that no person from Genesis to Deuteronomy, has been confirmed, that their is no evidence for their existence. Their is no hard evidence that the exodus happen. Actually, not yet, maybe after the second coming. You get to know the Book of Mormon is true by spiritual experiences. I believe both in the Book of Mormon and the Bible.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@MisioneriesinChile Thanks for your input. However, let's stick to the subject. We're not discussing the Bible, we're discussing claims of the Book of Mormon. For the BoM to be "comparable to the Bible" (as is claimed in the BoM introduction), it must be able to withstand the same scrutiny. Don't you think it's strange that there are no known geographical locations, no artifacts, no record of the BoM text in history? What does that imply?
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect "Don't you think it's strange" Hey were is the evidence that there was an exodus, 2 million israelites, archeologist Eric H. Cline , said said there was nothing. I cannot explain that, but I believe that Bible is the Word of God, however I could explain the Book of Mormon and I have a rational explanations for those questions that you are asking me.
MisioneriesinChile 1 year ago
@MisioneriesinChile From my experience, many times Mormons, such as yourself, change the subject and like to point to this and that problem instead of offering a positive case for their own "scriptures". Again, we're not discussing the Bible. We're discussing the Book of Mormon. Can you share some positive evidence? (Pointing out an apparent problem in archaeology in another text isn't positive evidence.)
whodidyouexpect 1 year ago
@whodidyouexpect yes, they admit they can't know for sure, but they have a very good idea where it happened most likely according to current data. Why should have smith translated using the spanish names? those aren't the real names, second, smith didn't know those spanish names, and many of the places that we think could be nephite/lamanite sites, weren't found when the book was being translated. But I wouldn't translate ancient city name as Helsinki if that's not the real original name.
Jarkko1983 1 year ago
@Jarkko1983 still waiting for you to acccept my friend request.
LDS4Life71 6 months ago
I loved this. Thank you all for making this!
dfwilcox 1 year ago
This is a response to the anti-Mormon video "Bible vs The Book of Mormon", produced by faithful Latter-day Saints. FAIR interviewed scholars from many fields to test the claims made by critics in a critical video, and found that it is inaccurate at best.
omiolo 1 year ago
Not a bad video, but really, it's a bit dry, don't you think? I mean no music, the same talking guys, etc. Good content, but could use a little more...seasoning, if you will.
Ninjax2000 1 year ago
Kerry's reaction at 1:13:20 to "Did Joseph Smith write the Book of Mormon?" made me lol
TheOptimusprime9 1 year ago
Are there are references on The Book of Mormon and linguistics? I'd guess there are a few, but not sure where to look. Thanks.
jogsingumboots 1 year ago