Mirror test shows magpies aren't so bird-brained

[MrSeedyoldman]

0422763461 ill fuck your magpies for exotic mailman and packages possibly some sheldon and then johhny hubbawatti to finish off my sexual plesures and to top it off have a smoke with its beak in my asshole

[shroomingnewman]

i'm smarter than that stupid bird..just barely

[animaljp3]

once an animal figures out a mirror, it knows it is a reflection. It can not be done in one instant.

[Nutto666]

Nothing new, I always knew corvids were smart

[daedalx]

Magpies are so smart that they make great sandwiches.

[iloirtimusiikista]

Yea, I knew it! They are not only smart, but they are also super handsome! Ok, their singing is not very pretty, but who cares!

[Uprising771]

wow, cool

[drumdust]

Parrot's are pretty smart too.



[mazdaplz]

if they are so smart you shouldn't be doing experiments with the little fellows, let's make a magpie/people coalition

[endthedisease]

Have you seen the other video where the magpie attacks the glass just like any other bird?

Was it the same bird. Perhaps some magpies are smarter than others.

[Kagemi]

@endthedisease

There were 5 magpies tested, and two which did not display self awareness.

This does not mean all magpies are not self aware.

[endthedisease]

@Kagemi So some magpies have more developed brains than others. Kind of like some humans I know.

[davidiom27]

Don't put magpies in a cage!!!! Thats horrible.

[endthedisease]

couldn't it be that the bird just feels the sticker on them?

[jazzfolkrocker]

@endthedisease the black sticker was a control, which disproves that possibility.

[falcoperegrinus82]

@endthedisease they eliminated that by doing the experiment with black dots that matched their natural color.

[endthedisease]

@falcoperegrinus82 color has nothing to do with feeling. I said feel.

[falcoperegrinus82]

@endthedisease I know you said feel. They controlled for that with the black dots, which, according to the video, they had no reaction to.

[rapskallion]

I don't know if she's self-aware, but my cat ALWAYS will sit next to glass or a mirror so she can keep an eye on what's behind her back. She spends equal amount of time looking in the reflection and through the glass. So, she's aware of everything else in the world in the reflection. I don't know why she wouldn't be aware of herself as well.

[SilenceOfChaos]

Pies.... MMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm *drool*

[SilenceOfChaos]

Yuhuh... my aunt has two of these in a big cage, they both speak like parrots, smart birds, no doubt.

[Xaxton2]

This probably explains why they build their nests with shiny things; to scare off predators with the reflection of the predators, themselves.

[SilenceOfChaos]

@Xaxton2 Smart, excellent point.

[ShadowriverUB]

@Xaxton2 huh :p they make nest from sticks and soft inside with mixed grass and mud

[Xaxton2]

@ShadowriverUB Oh, my mistake.

[hotuckfai]

@flotonz420 hahaha....

[jeanalisson2006]

elephants, parrots and dolphins can recognize themselves in the mirror too

[ECKELBARN]

i love magpies

[trakkaton]

I am a Magpie and I approve of this message.

[EscapeFromHellview96]

@trakkaton lmfao

[mt003355]

wickedgame26, magpies evolved individually from humans, in fact birds bodies are more advanced than mammals in many ways including a much more efficient circulatory system and more detailed vision. Magpies and humans both evolved from lob-fined fish, not birds from mammals. Read a book.

[wickedgame26]

so we evolve from magpies then?, evolution theory fail

[ajre82]

@wickedgame26

who taught you about evolution? your priest?

[wickedgame26]

@ajre82 no, why priest? is that a joke? sorry not funny

[LolPomps]

@wickedgame26 the only "thing" that fails here is you.

[wickedgame26]

@LolPomps according to you lol

[Sean2112bd]

To be honest, this looks more like self-recognition than self awareness. Still cool though.

[falcoperegrinus82]

@Sean2112bd what is the difference?

[Sean2112bd]

@Sean2112bd I usually think of self-recognition as identifying one's self as an individual whereas self-awareness is identifying one's own existence. So self-awareness to me leans more towards the capability of philosophical thought, in this case being aware of one's self in relation to his or her existence.

[super6plx]

that's what your magpies look like? wtf?

real australian magpies certainly don't look anything like that o_O

[04lody04]

this is the eurasian magpie.

[haggidubious]

@super6plx Yeah- real or not, our magpies are a much bigger, heavier bird, with a short wedge tail and way diff markings. Are Aust. Magpies even related to these Eurasian ones? Wiki will know...

[super6plx]

@haggidubious hang on, aussie magpies are much bigger? in that case yes they are

I had a feeling you were referring to the european ones being bigger, heh

[keirapotter]

I have a magpie and she's really smart (I've never tried anything with a mirror though)! When she does something she's not allowed to (like bathing in the cat's water...) and when we enter the room, she pretends to be sleeping, lol!

[zackhanscom]

those thieving magpies

[42ndIcicle]

Science shows "Science shows..." usually begins 95% of lies.

More like 100%, amirite?

[RuffleTheTeacher]

.... and the people who believe what you say also believe that once, there was this guy who's mom got pregnant without having sex! And that same dude was killed, and then three days later he came back to life. True story!

That sound totally reasonable!

[42ndIcicle]

1. How'd you find that out? (That people thought that)

2. Don't a lot of moms act like that's what happens to them? XD

3. Okay, so maybe not 100%. :\ Maybe 80?

[falcoperegrinus82]

@42ndIcicle Nope.

[falcoperegrinus82]

Not only are they self-aware, the know know what their correct appearance should be.

[GoodButEvil26]

@falcoperegrinus82 isn't that fascinating... considering they have probably never looked in the mirror before

[falcoperegrinus82]

I don't think brain size has anything to do with it. That is really cool though.

[rochelimit55555]

I always have this thought, if human extinct (because of 2012, lol), the birds will replace us with far more advanced civilization.

[DR000]

Wow, you're truly a moron.

[ibrodinho]

yes

[helghasttrooper5073]

I got pecked in the back of thehead by a magpie whilst riding to the shops today, then it chased me another 20 metres or so down the road...stupid bird.

[rewzie]

only a European magpie(Pica Pica). I wonder what the result would be with an Australian Magpie (gymnorina tibicen). You may want eye protection for that one.

[rewzie]

Why was this test done with an american/european magpie. Has it been tried on an australian magpie? A bird so intelligent that it has mastered cynicism!

[105km]

amazing! In mammals ony the great apes can do this! Crows, ravens, jackdaws, mapies are the smartest of birds

[105km]

oh yeah, and parrots. Parrots are smart too. Especialy those African grey parrots

[thesparitan]

i hate her voice and that terrible sound

[centrosound]

I want a pet magpie everone hates em but I think they are badass

[Yocrof]

Magpies are definitely smart, but crows are the smartest birds of all.

[Faust9000]

That's nothing: some parrots can learn English syntax, semantics, and have a five hundred word vocabulary.

[konabirdmm]

Starlings, magpies, crows, jackdaws are all capable of speech. There are a few talking crows and magpies on youtube, if you care to search.

[aure232]

Correct! But those are empty words for them...by all means empty.

[vitruvian8807]

rofl!

[itzyourcrayons]

what about dogs?

[vitruvian8807]

the video description says: "....can recognise themselves - the first time this has been shown in non-mammals. "

[yi238]

which means dogs can recognize themselves =D

[kargaroc386]

this = awesomeness,

i love birds!

[jollypilgrim]

Anyone that uses the word 'prolly' is definitely a dork.

[monosaturated]

Unfortunately, it's part of a whole culture of today's youth that encourages stupidity and willful ignorance as "cool." So, if you know a lot of things, intellectually and otherwise, you're seen as "lame." Fortunately, if they attend an intellectually stimulating University, they will realize how much of a failure the "dumb is cool" theory, really is.

[Hetdegon]

I saw the full "test subject" videos when the news came out. It was interesting how only one of the male subjects attacked the reflection...plus, they are adorable.

This and recent experiments regarding math capacity in chicken chicks show how birds are widely underestimated.

[TiagoTiagoT]

how do they know the stickers aren't supposed to be there once they see it? have they seen how they look like before the sticks were placed? what if a sticker covering a natural mark was present the first time they see themselves in a mirror and then removed the next time?

[Byrnzi360]

When I first got my Grey parrot, they put a black dot on his head to distinguish him from the other baby Greys. When he saw the dot on his head in a mirror, he would scratch and rub his head against things to try and get it off. I imagine he was determining his image based on what the other bird looked like.

Either that... or the ink from the marker didn't feel good on his head, and he wanted to get it off.

[falcoperegrinus82]

Its cool how they controlled for that by placing an "invisible" black dot on the bird's neck

[VideyoJunkei]

most birds and animals will keep attacking/warning the reflection in the mirror, they don't 'get it' that it's themselves, EVER!

[Ralkila]

i have a friend that cant do that .. really i have the video but in VHS :(

[Rowantwig]

you mean if you show him a mirror and ask him who he sees he says he doesnt know?

[binaryb]

its could be evolution taking place... just hear me out.... maybe that the magpie learned that glass window could kill them by flying into them, if they understood this its a good chance that's why they know what they look like so all they have to remember is to not fly into the one bird who looks like themself or they could die... get it? no me either, just a thought

[boredanddumb]

humans are said to fail the mirror test at 18 months old , i thought to myself...hmmm could maybe the circumstances of the test interupt the test itself , animals normally , under (i assume) natural cimrcumstances (like reflection on water) ever encounter their reflection , how COULD one know wat their outter apperiance is like? fish usually fail the test dont they ? well..how could they ever see their reflection? idk , wat do u think ? am i making sense here?

[random0815]

i guess for most its more about recognizing own movement rather than own appearance which leads to another duh-aspect of it: only few animals have a good enough vision to recognize themselves visually ^^

[boredanddumb]

yeah , most identify themselves through smell.i also thought like this..does it make sense wen animals attack a mirror ? well..wat are they attacking ,the mirror or their image ? animals dont understand that we have the power to create reflection out of the natural world ,if i was living in the world all dandy and stuff and was use to my reflection in the water ,and saw a mirror ,i wuld assume some power greater then i or water could make reflection,thus, i wuld be fearful and attack..the mirror

[random0815]

yup you would have to create a smell mirror to test f.e. many dogs, funny thing is that the scientific community took quite some time to realize this limitation, recognizing the mirror as an object with a certain effect is certainly a task of its own, pondering about how this effect came another one

[boredanddumb]

very funny test , very funny test indeed.

[wzxd8rm]

If you experience fear your first reaction is aggression??? Is your rhesus factor-???

[boredanddumb]

as far as agression being first reaction of fear , yes, i wuld say so , maybe not mines , or yours , but lookin at the behavior of the animal kingdom , i wuld think this wuld be so , and uhh am not quite sure wat rhesus factor is but ill look that up after this reply.

[wzxd8rm]

Chimps don't attack the mirror as their first reaction, they analyze movement of reflection. Macaque attacks instantly.

Rhesus factor called rhesus because it was first detected in rhesus macaque.

[boredanddumb]

well i wasnt really stating stricly that every animal wuld respond agressively , i was trying to try to discuss wat might be the reason of this rather than just say , "haha! this animal is not slef-aware! and has no intellegence" , which is wat was originally thought wen the introduction of this test , which is pretty much absolute , but anyways , now that i kno wat rhesus factor means your last comment seems has a satirical twist :)

[falcoperegrinus82]

I'm pretty sure most (non self-aware) animals attack reflective objects because they think that the reflection is a conspecific rival.

[Illchangeitlater]

But all birds in general have extremely good vision compared to dogs and cats for example. Birds are visual animals while dogs and cats rely on their ears and noses.

[Reeminet]

This test is obvious for me having watched a magpie at home (saved from falling from the nest). But tell ornitologists about a mirror to save young magpie - they will tell you it is waste of time. But it saved the young bird from loneliness, it did not ignore the mirror as they stated. And about the consciousness some of you wrote before- I agree, the smallest life form have it and can decide (that I can't confirm by experience:))

[shaolindreams]

whats this accomplish?

[AliMakaveliDa7thSign]

nothing at all.. they dont have time to cure cancer.. but they got plenty of time to to see which bird is more clever

[kdbod]

What basic research such as this "accomplishes" is to inform our world view about the nature of our fellow species with which we share this planet. Comparative psychology/biology research such as this helps us understand the similarities and differences between humans and various species of nonhumans. Failure to detect any import is a failure on your part, not on the part of the researchers.

[AliMakaveliDa7thSign]

maybe if these so called researches paid attention on curing cancer and other deadly viruses.. and then.. the lesser things like.. seeing how much acorns a squirrel can find in a day.. then the world will be a beeter place.. where we'll be able to share it with out fellow speices

[TechnoTime1]

Well, why don't you just spend all your money on cancer research instead of doing what you want with your time and money, that's what you want them to do, right?

[TheCivilEngineer22]

@TechnoTime1 well an evolutionary biologist cannot cure cancer. Cancer research requires a lot more money. Magpies are fairly common birds. All you need is a mirror and a magpie. Easy. not like cancer research

[amer3333]

agreed, but who is "you" ?? pharmaceutical companies? govt? the russians?! lol

[doopydoopdoop]

You may well be the stupidest person to ever live, congratulations.

[AliMakaveliDa7thSign]

nah.. im sure ur momz gt dat title.. she beat da previous holder.. ur retarded dad.. fuckin cock suckin bastud

[doopydoopdoop]

No, I'm pretty sure my mother recognizes the necessity of scientific progress in all manors of research.

If you had any idea at all about the scientific method, you would understand that identifying organisms with consciousness has important implications for evolution and or own condition.

As for your cancer party, what do you think potential treatments are tested on? Have you considered that conscious animals may represent a better testing paradigm?

[AliMakaveliDa7thSign]

shut da fuck up

[doopydoopdoop]

Super genius and a keyboard hero, what a combination.

[AliMakaveliDa7thSign]

thank u.. thank u.. thank u.. ur far too kind

[gabman6]

at 0:17 why the heck do the zoom at the wrong area?!

[mjag4242]

I once came across a bunch of magpies taking turns tiptoeing past a dog sleeping on the sidewalk, even though they could have easily avoided it. It blew my mind because it looked like they were playing a game of chicken. They continued to do it over and over, and seemed to be having a great time. Very strange.

[TrulyTea512]

They should put this at the end of the movie Mirrors

[romillyh]

cunning experiment. But many who've kept birds know they know perfectly well who's in the mirror! I even had a bird who'd look over his shoulder to look at things behind him that were being reflected in the mirror - i.e. he understood what was going on in that mirror. Maybe the key is that the bird's reflection moves with the bird, so the bird knows it's itself and not another bird.

[nickiscrazy88]

who and why would someone research this?

[Axeman20]

There's nothing to say about it except magpies are smarter than the average bird.

And stop sounding angry, its bad for the heart, you know?

[ecyor0]

Well, they might say that this shows the hand of an intelligent designer, since having the same brain function appear in 2 species, which according to evolution have been seperate for over 60 million years, is just a little too improbable. Or they might just point out that all this proves is that magpies can recognize their reflections, and says nothing about whether they have true sentience.

Pays not to immediately leap on something as conclusive evidence of the atheist/theist argument, eh? ;)

[thoughtwaretv]

if they can recognize themselves in the mirror, they're obviously aware of themselves. Truly they've achieved a higher level of awareness.

Are they not conscious of themselves?

[Gormanmod]

nope. conscience is something else. This is simply self awareness.

Guess those dinosaurs finally found out they exist. lol.

[MadsterV]

Actually it kind of is.

Conscience is defined (too loosely in the opinion of IA researchers) as what "the sense of right and wrong that determines your actions". If the bird recognizes itself in the mirror, something not found in nature (water reflections are horizontal), it means it reasoned instead of reacting by instinct. Thus, it has thoughts and can decide its actions (instead of pure instinct). thus, it has choice and thus can pick its own right from wrong (probably differing from yours).

[Gormanmod]

well yea I guess.

I mean, even a cell can decide a region is bad and move away, or order walker proteins to bring food to certain areas.

So maybe some kind of primitive version of consciousness.

[timdries]

how do the bird know that . maybe it normal that hi has an yellow spot there. how should he know

[FOREXpilotROBOT]

god video

[Maracachucho]

thats a smart birdie, my parrot can't do that :P

[kukelz]

even apes can do that, and they dont even have wings.

[greekwariorx]

Can I keep it?

[SirDodds]

Toon Toon BLACK & WHITE ARMY "!!!!

you hurt our Geordie allies i shall smite you alll

NEWCASTLE UTD FOR THE 08-09 FA CUP TITLE !!!

[Aaron1046]

ahahaha cool!

[wtfisthisshyt]

"experts can tell y magpies know its their reflection while other birds can, but we're not going to tell you"

[sdddlt]

haha, the sticker is a clever idea to proove this theory.

[tommasfoolery]

i hate the way this chick talks.

[Owm109]

odinoss: A better understanding of animal brain function. Any increase in understanding is an accomplishment unto itself.

Also, it's another little strike against the arrogance of anthropocentrism.

[symmetricmedia]

well done

[Tripp393]

can they steel jewelry for me yet?

[DeimosSaturn]

This beautifully illustrates a good CONTROLLED experiment. I was skeptical of the video up until they mentioned that the birds with black stickers did not react at all.

[GetMeThere1]

hmmmm....I'm not convinced about how effective their control might be: i.e., do magpies try to remove the sticker even if they DON'T have a mirror around? I think they might; birds are VERY particular about their feathers and keeping themselves clean. I would imagine that it could feel the sticker there.

And...think about it: if this is the first time is had seen a mirror, how did it KNOW it's not SUPPOSED to have a yellow dot on its throat?

[username1066]

GeMeThere1: The vid said that they placed black dots on the magpie that blended in with the feathers, and the bird didn't try to remove it (didn't see it).

[GetMeThere1]

Thanks, 1066. Didn't hear that part (I hate that woman's speaking manner, anyhow).

That's an excellent control and proves quite conclusively that they understand they're see themselves in the mirror.

[DaZeD871]

I'm pretty sure they didn't just put the bird in front of the mirror for the first time WITH the sticker ...

And also watch the video carefully, they mention also doing black sticker that blend in with their feathers, and they didn't try to remove those as they couldn't see the difference in the mirror.

[turtalako]

magpies have bigger brains ...

...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!

...

why have science when you have logic like that

Bigger Brain = Smarter .. LOL

[UncleKennybobs]

Very good, nice research.

We all know birds aren't stupid.

[tropacat1214]

nice

[miragebird]

dogs and cats probably.

[longz654321]

no they cant

[rgbda]

We have many magpies in our area, they really are awesome birds. If you put bread out, most times a family will regularly visit. Watch them change over the seasons :-)

Just watch out for the dive bombers...they suck

[dafttool]

I was glad that you mentioned toward the end that magpies have bigger brains than many other birds. I think if they tested numerous bird species, they would find birds could be divided into those that can & can't recognize themselves.

[fucksatanism]

Good, lets all capture magpies and have them do our bidding. Fuck this pointless shit.

[0melting0fire0]

i agree

me and you will build up an army and take over sweden!!!

muahahaha

[NarutoSSj6]

heyyy u there i am actualy living in sweden XD. now it time for me to bust ur plan and become a hero .

[0melting0fire0]

too bad we already have an army of magpies flying towards sweden now!!

RAWR!! attack my smarter-then-other-bird birds!

there gonna steal all of your cookies

[hoxcage]

does this mean we need to stop eating magpies?

[Fernoe]

no, it just means if he try to eat them, don't put up any mirrors when you cut them so they don't notice they're injured.

[avengrrr]

3 comment ownage

[TheReasonWhyGuy]

Science rocks!

Fuck yeah magpies!

[teemuruskeepaa]

It is not descriptive to express this with 'not so bird-brained'

[TheReasonWhyGuy]

Why were you posting this in response to my comment?

[minieggg1]

why am i posting this as a responce to you're comment which was a responce to someone elses reply to you're orignal comment?...

[teemuruskeepaa]

I knew it. You're just a bigot. Fuck science.

[alex3914]

lol booo!!

[teemuruskeepaa]

Shut up. :)

[alex3914]

Why don't you jump through the screen and make me? BOO you stink! Your gay and science kicks some serious ass.

[teemuruskeepaa]

You are a retarded kid, who still talks like a problem teen at 22. You have no kudos over me. So shut it.

[okachobee]

coolio