@Shultzgti No doubt what took place there was a shame from all angles, but everyone seems to forget the reason law enforcement showed up in the first place. Sexual assault of minors, production of automatic weapons, production of grenades, etc. This was no typical traffic stop!
They shot her through the chest, as she was nursing her baby...I am not a Christian, these people were peaceful. This was the beginning of the end. They will come in our homes, torture our children, murder our husbands and tell the media we were terrorists. It all started with a warrant for illegal guns. Please, someone tell me, since WHEN are guns illegal?
@TheBananna3232 Well, guns can be illegal like if they are trafficking them for criminal purposes or if they are not registered. But I agree, it's scary when they can do anything under the word terrorism and a shiny badge.
To all the David Koresh sympathizers. I've been to a couple of different Christian sect Churches. But at none of these did they make it a business of buying and selling guns and stockpiling grenades and ammunition. This man was ready to kill in the name of God and he used women and children as his excuse for doing it.
I gave you some reasonable common ground on Clinton, so until you admit that, everything else aside, Koresh was a dangerous nutcase who had to be stopped, I won't waste my time fighting on the internet.
Now I'll ask you again, and until I get an answer, i'm not interested in continuing here: Do you admit that, government mishandling of a tragic situation aside, Koresh was a dangerous man with some serious psychological problems?
A sign that read "Flames Await" was seen from a window. Koresh shamefully used human shields (he told the children that if they fled, he would haunt them after his death).
Accelerants such as gasoline and kerosene were used as fuel to spread the fire.
Ok, again I mispoke. His words, more accurately, weren't a threat to "haunt" them, but to kill them after he was "ressurected".
The tapes I referred to were played in court in 2000.
Joyce Sparks, employee of the Texas Children's Protective ASgency, provided a report to the FBI of Koresh's sexually abusive acts and Dr. Bruce Perry, who questioned children that survived the standoff, confirmed that Koresh did indeed abuse young female children in such a way.
Do your homework.The warrant was 4 a $200 tax that may have been owed on 2 AR-15 that may have been converted into automatic weapons.They had a legal federal firearms license.David & William Perry went 2 the front door unarmed & were shot.Judy Snider was shot while she was nursing her baby,17 yr old Peter Gent was cleaning the water tower looked up 2 see what was going on & was murdered.He had a scrapper in his hand.That was McLennan county Sheriff Jack Hartwell telling u they were good people.
From your comments it appears you've only watched this movie. Of course, I disagree that only the government was to blame (even said I'm no fan of Clinton), so that must mean I haven't seen the film. *sigh*.
I don't recall mentioning any visions, though it's been months since I commented here other than my last response.
Upstanding residents according to some selective memories with no knowledge of Koresh's atrocities or not, that's hardly relevant to the charges against Koresh.
You don't recall mentioning a vision? All your exhaustive research led you to believe, "The Branch Davidians lit the fire (a recording that mentioned flames, and "Koresh"'s own clear apocalyptic vision prove this)."
Ah, yes, that was from months ago, so my memory of my discussions here was sketchy.
Note, though, by "vision" I didn't mean as in a drug-induced hallucination, but rather his anticipation of an inevitable apocalyptic event ("Koresh", Hebrew for "death" is a testament to this, hence my emphasis).
It's not my belief, however. The recording is a fact, as is Koresh's disturbed nature.
Janet Reno's justification for the A.T.F.'s attack upon the Davidian compound at Waco was that children were being molested. Reno's earlier claim to fame/infamy was prosecuting daycare center workers on molestation charges in South Florida.
The Branch Davidians lit the fire (a recording that mentioned flames, and "Koresh"'s own clear apocalyptic vision prove this).
I hate Clinton..but Koresh was nothing short of a pedophilic maniac, and this was not done in cold blood. Koresh had a demonstrably troubled past, as did his group, and it's unfortunate, but if there was a shootout with Scientologists and the ATF right now, I wouldn't be cheering for Scientologists.
NaturalSelection2 said, "The Branch Davidians lit the fire (a recording that mentioned flames, and "Koresh"'s own clear apocalyptic vision prove this)."
From your comment, it appeared that you only watched the trailer. Also, you left your remarks at the trailer, not at the film.
Several years have passed since I saw the Waco-Rules of Engagement, but the film was convincing. I'm curious though, especially since you give Koresh's vision more credit than the evidence presented in the film, where can the recording of his vision be found?
Also, what convinced you the testimonies about the members being upstanding residents were false?
No kidding. I've taken detailed notes and looked around quite a bit, and neither they nor the government are innocent in my view.
Remember-it's not so black & white. The government is not innocent, but neither are the Branch Davidians, Scientologists, Timothy McVeigh, Westboro Baptist Church..
in the words of so many other people who are just non chalent about anything the media throws at you these days, "there the government, they can do what ever the fuck they want"
Anyone who has not seen this film needs to do so.While the Gov. would love for you to believe that the Branch Davidians were a dangerous cult,and that David Koresh was an evil man,that is just not the case.While I do not believe in the same things as the Davidians, that does not make them evil.Thanks to our "free media" most Americans believe that the FBI/ATF were heroes in this situation.The truth is they are the ones responsible for what happened in Waco.
Keep in mind that this is just the trailer, and the full length feature, that you can buy, from our website depicts an extremely even handed approach, and depicts Koresh and the FBI acordingly, thanks for your comment
I don't claim to be an expert, I've only recently started studying this and have heard some intriguing things about this documentary. HOWEVER, I do understand that the ATF, FBI, and the government made crucial mistakes, but portraying the Davidians, specifically David Koresh, as harmless and innocent people with an Amish-style peaceful view of the world, is borderline insanity at best.
This movie does not portray him as that. However, the beliefs that you have formed around Koresh, I would imagine, have been strictly imposed by the media in the 90's. Regardless, of what ever guilt you assume on him, there is NO EXCUSE for the government killing people like that. Strategically targeting women, denying fire fighters to serve, and having no contact to anyone outside of FBI, AFI, and Washington. This whole story needs to be re-released to the public.
Yet for some reason a peaceful cult leader had amassed heavy weapons, including an insanely powerful barrett sniper rifle? NOw why would they need such things in their place of worship?
This video can be found on google and after you watch it you'll realize that they did paint him as a borderline psychotic child molester. The point being, that doesn't give the government the right to burn down a church with 79 people in it.
@Shultzgti No doubt what took place there was a shame from all angles, but everyone seems to forget the reason law enforcement showed up in the first place. Sexual assault of minors, production of automatic weapons, production of grenades, etc. This was no typical traffic stop!
Jeffersxxl 1 month ago
hahaha hilarious. i would have liked to let them fuckers burn, record their screams and have them as my ringtone
walkintall29 5 months ago
They shot her through the chest, as she was nursing her baby...I am not a Christian, these people were peaceful. This was the beginning of the end. They will come in our homes, torture our children, murder our husbands and tell the media we were terrorists. It all started with a warrant for illegal guns. Please, someone tell me, since WHEN are guns illegal?
TheBananna3232 10 months ago
@TheBananna3232 Well, guns can be illegal like if they are trafficking them for criminal purposes or if they are not registered. But I agree, it's scary when they can do anything under the word terrorism and a shiny badge.
PepsiPope 7 months ago
To all the David Koresh sympathizers. I've been to a couple of different Christian sect Churches. But at none of these did they make it a business of buying and selling guns and stockpiling grenades and ammunition. This man was ready to kill in the name of God and he used women and children as his excuse for doing it.
Millhouse420ify 11 months ago
I just found out a movie is being made over this event.
Kjleed13 1 year ago
WHO is next in the great US of A...hahahahahah
You fools...2nd means SHIT
flyyspit 1 year ago
I gave you some reasonable common ground on Clinton, so until you admit that, everything else aside, Koresh was a dangerous nutcase who had to be stopped, I won't waste my time fighting on the internet.
NaturalSelection2 2 years ago
Now I'll ask you again, and until I get an answer, i'm not interested in continuing here: Do you admit that, government mishandling of a tragic situation aside, Koresh was a dangerous man with some serious psychological problems?
A sign that read "Flames Await" was seen from a window. Koresh shamefully used human shields (he told the children that if they fled, he would haunt them after his death).
Accelerants such as gasoline and kerosene were used as fuel to spread the fire.
NaturalSelection2 2 years ago
Ok, again I mispoke. His words, more accurately, weren't a threat to "haunt" them, but to kill them after he was "ressurected".
The tapes I referred to were played in court in 2000.
Joyce Sparks, employee of the Texas Children's Protective ASgency, provided a report to the FBI of Koresh's sexually abusive acts and Dr. Bruce Perry, who questioned children that survived the standoff, confirmed that Koresh did indeed abuse young female children in such a way.
Well, that's enough of my time here.
NaturalSelection2 2 years ago
This whole incident is just disturbing to think about, regardless of whether one blames the cult leader or the ATF. It makes me sick.
NaturalSelection2 2 years ago
Do your homework.The warrant was 4 a $200 tax that may have been owed on 2 AR-15 that may have been converted into automatic weapons.They had a legal federal firearms license.David & William Perry went 2 the front door unarmed & were shot.Judy Snider was shot while she was nursing her baby,17 yr old Peter Gent was cleaning the water tower looked up 2 see what was going on & was murdered.He had a scrapper in his hand.That was McLennan county Sheriff Jack Hartwell telling u they were good people.
freighthauler1 1 year ago
To all folks that claim members of the Davidian Church were guilty of this or that, I ask:
What did the 17 children that were murdered on that day do to deserve to die?
Patrick1776Henry 2 years ago
From your comments it appears you've only watched this movie. Of course, I disagree that only the government was to blame (even said I'm no fan of Clinton), so that must mean I haven't seen the film. *sigh*.
I don't recall mentioning any visions, though it's been months since I commented here other than my last response.
Upstanding residents according to some selective memories with no knowledge of Koresh's atrocities or not, that's hardly relevant to the charges against Koresh.
NaturalSelection2 2 years ago
NaturalSelection2-
You don't recall mentioning a vision? All your exhaustive research led you to believe, "The Branch Davidians lit the fire (a recording that mentioned flames, and "Koresh"'s own clear apocalyptic vision prove this)."
I'd just like to hear that recording, that's all.
Patrick1776Henry 2 years ago
Ah, yes, that was from months ago, so my memory of my discussions here was sketchy.
Note, though, by "vision" I didn't mean as in a drug-induced hallucination, but rather his anticipation of an inevitable apocalyptic event ("Koresh", Hebrew for "death" is a testament to this, hence my emphasis).
It's not my belief, however. The recording is a fact, as is Koresh's disturbed nature.
NaturalSelection2 2 years ago
Janet Reno's justification for the A.T.F.'s attack upon the Davidian compound at Waco was that children were being molested. Reno's earlier claim to fame/infamy was prosecuting daycare center workers on molestation charges in South Florida.
ElHombreConDosOjos 2 years ago
So in short, no, I'm not defending either the Davidians or the Clinton government.
Both were maniacal. I just find it a bit much to defend a horrid man like Koresh simply because he opposed people who were also monsters.
NaturalSelection2 3 years ago
With respect, I strongly disagree.
The Branch Davidians lit the fire (a recording that mentioned flames, and "Koresh"'s own clear apocalyptic vision prove this).
I hate Clinton..but Koresh was nothing short of a pedophilic maniac, and this was not done in cold blood. Koresh had a demonstrably troubled past, as did his group, and it's unfortunate, but if there was a shootout with Scientologists and the ATF right now, I wouldn't be cheering for Scientologists.
NaturalSelection2 3 years ago
NaturalSelection2 said, "The Branch Davidians lit the fire (a recording that mentioned flames, and "Koresh"'s own clear apocalyptic vision prove this)."
Did you even bother watching this film?
Patrick1776Henry 2 years ago
Given that I took the time to click the link to it and write comments here, the answer is obvious, but I'll tell you anyway: Yes.
However, I also took the time to do my own research instead of treating this film as Gospel.
If you can't respond to me respectfully and with legitimate points, don't bother responding to me at all.
NaturalSelection2 2 years ago
NS-
From your comment, it appeared that you only watched the trailer. Also, you left your remarks at the trailer, not at the film.
Several years have passed since I saw the Waco-Rules of Engagement, but the film was convincing. I'm curious though, especially since you give Koresh's vision more credit than the evidence presented in the film, where can the recording of his vision be found?
Also, what convinced you the testimonies about the members being upstanding residents were false?
Patrick1776Henry 2 years ago
the attack may have been a bit extreme, but these people were breaking a dozen laws. Polygamy? Weapons stockpiling? Innocent, my ass.
goebbels94 3 years ago
No kidding. I've taken detailed notes and looked around quite a bit, and neither they nor the government are innocent in my view.
Remember-it's not so black & white. The government is not innocent, but neither are the Branch Davidians, Scientologists, Timothy McVeigh, Westboro Baptist Church..
NaturalSelection2 3 years ago
in the words of so many other people who are just non chalent about anything the media throws at you these days, "there the government, they can do what ever the fuck they want"
ctruman 4 years ago
Anyone who has not seen this film needs to do so.While the Gov. would love for you to believe that the Branch Davidians were a dangerous cult,and that David Koresh was an evil man,that is just not the case.While I do not believe in the same things as the Davidians, that does not make them evil.Thanks to our "free media" most Americans believe that the FBI/ATF were heroes in this situation.The truth is they are the ones responsible for what happened in Waco.
RuinerxxSINCITY 4 years ago
Keep in mind that this is just the trailer, and the full length feature, that you can buy, from our website depicts an extremely even handed approach, and depicts Koresh and the FBI acordingly, thanks for your comment
gilscrinefilms 5 years ago
I don't claim to be an expert, I've only recently started studying this and have heard some intriguing things about this documentary. HOWEVER, I do understand that the ATF, FBI, and the government made crucial mistakes, but portraying the Davidians, specifically David Koresh, as harmless and innocent people with an Amish-style peaceful view of the world, is borderline insanity at best.
NaturalSelection2 5 years ago
This movie does not portray him as that. However, the beliefs that you have formed around Koresh, I would imagine, have been strictly imposed by the media in the 90's. Regardless, of what ever guilt you assume on him, there is NO EXCUSE for the government killing people like that. Strategically targeting women, denying fire fighters to serve, and having no contact to anyone outside of FBI, AFI, and Washington. This whole story needs to be re-released to the public.
NinaNinotchka 4 years ago 6
Yet for some reason a peaceful cult leader had amassed heavy weapons, including an insanely powerful barrett sniper rifle? NOw why would they need such things in their place of worship?
mratomix 4 years ago
This video can be found on google and after you watch it you'll realize that they did paint him as a borderline psychotic child molester. The point being, that doesn't give the government the right to burn down a church with 79 people in it.
mr5elfde5truct 4 years ago