Rachel Maddow Fact Checks Pat Buchanan's Racial Tirade

[kalikev]

sad.... so many white ppl think that way too... lol 

[makeitfunkyfolks]

If Scalia had ever had to compete at anything he wouldn't be on the Supreme Court. He is a mental midget and a TRUE example of the time of affirmative action Mr. Buchanan speaks of.

[kynismos]

Rachel Maddows politics: The state should discriminate against white men.

[duntymolly]

how in God's holy name did this ass-wipe get a TV show?

[ammarios]

This is AWESOME. She TOTALLY PWNED him,& unlike Fox "Faux" News, she did it calmly, using facts, without raising her voice, and even apologised for not correcting them sooner (she took responsibility for errors that were not even her fault). This is how it SHOULD be. The way to "win the argument" should be PURELY about and done through facts and in a civil manner; and NOT by yelling, screaming, name-calling and biased editing and skewed facts/propaganda *cough Fox News*cough*Bill O'reilly*cough*

[TheSlowThinker]

I hope Pat saw this. He probably did.

I hope Pat reflected over Rachel's points. He probably did not.

[tmlms1313]

Rachel should have asked Pat is he thought she got her show on msnbc because she was a women.

[shockadelicaustralia]

What the hell do slavery and Jim Crow have to do with Latinos?

"Basically White folks built this country"?

Built? You think he's actually talking about building construction?

What a moron!

Since the population of America has been majority White for centuries his statement *IS* fact.

"I love white folks" says the bitch holding the bloody knife.

If race is so irrelevant, why do progressives keep going on and on and on and on about it?

She's not a Latino judge. She's just a judge!

[Azrael666Azazel]

HMM and yet he did not mention the ivy league legacy cases. You know the kids that get into harvard and yale simply because their parents went their. G.W. Bush is a great example of a legacy case. I am guessing that he is not opposed to that though because bush got in because he was rich and not because of his race

[sinistar99]

Every white male I ever heard whining about how affirmative action has made them into an "oppressed minority" has a good job with full benefits and has a dad who has or is retired from a good job with full benifits. It makes me want to play the world's smallest violin.

[undeadgh0st]

Hey what a dumb bitch eh? Fact check my ass.

"If I look at the US track team in the olympics, and its all black folks"

"If there all, er, the hockey team is eight white guys from Minnisota"

That is suggesting that IF.. (IF).. anybody know what IF means? She sure dosen't. He is suggesting that IF, if they were all black or from Minnisota, he didn't say they were. How do idiots like this get their own shows?

[makeitfunkyfolks]

@undeadgh0st How do idiots like this get their own shows? - By being alot brighter than you.

[slowbaker]

Rachel is smart. I love her intelligence but I love her compassion for the truth more. Thank God for Rachel!

[stickyickyicky1203]

@slowbaker You're so hopeless.... I hope you're one of the queers from the left-wing, so you're genes won't be passed on.

[ChristianDLindsey]

Whats up with this thread. All I see are a bunch of dorks calling each other idiots and not even really discussing the video. The whole persecuted angry white male victim thing is sad and childish. Buchanan, Beck, Hannity, and O'Reiley are making a fortune from all you fat, spoiled, ignorant, dumbass slags, and they're simply just telling you what you want to hear, which is about as far from the truth as you can get.....

[CHardi1099]

What does this woman not understand about equal rights?

She acts as if all white people and their future children are responsible for slavery, and must hand over their rights based on her lame opinion of making it right!

No one at no time should ever have to give up their rights of equal opportunity, because some bitch thinks in your pea brain that it will all be ok, trust me.

[allmyprettythings]

Yes, yes, that is sooo what she thinks. Idiot.

[NeverEverFaceTheDark]

@CHardi1099 Dear sir/m'am. I think you missed the point here. She is not blaming white people for slavery. Shes saying that black people have a disadvantage because white people have always had more money/power/etc. which means better oppertunities to make more money(etc.). Everybody is entitled to their right of equal oppertunity theoretically, but in reality, equal oppertunity does not exist. Unless that chain s broken nd black people r granted the oppertunity to do so, by affirmative action.

[CHardi1099]

Also I do not accept ridicule as a line of reasoning.

[allmyprettythings]

YOU do not accept ridicule as a line of reasoning? You clearly have NO problems with personal attacks. Idiot!

[CHardi1099]

Well I as a Lesbian woman, knows how affirmative action works. I'm not too proud to admit when a man is right. Affirmative action is a marxist, socialist idea. I certainly do not want one person having more rights than I. We are all born under the same constitution and same rights. About the getting out of poverty deal. An African American would get a student loan over I, because of race. You mean the welfare program is not working for poverty? I can't get welfare, not that I would want it.

[bpa619]

Are you fucking retarded? Yeah, we are all born under the same constitution, which still says slaves will be counted as 3/5's of a person. It also didn't allow women to vote before 1920, so technically those that were born in 1919, were not "born under the same constitution," as those born in 1921, let alone those that born in 1998.

Also, take a fucking look at the 9th amendment you asshole, as it could be argued that "welfare" is part of our "rights."

God damnit you're a stupid asshole.

[CHardi1099]

Well are you a slave? Where is there a law or work place that says you are 3/5 of a person because you are black. Also they abolished slavery. THERE IS NO LONGER SLAVERY.

[CHardi1099]

Welfare is not a right under the constitution or bill of rights. It is an entitlement.

If it is a right than why can't we all just get it?

[CHardi1099]

So working class people have to give up their earned income to pay for someone else bills. What if we all just stopped working?

If you want to know what the word welfare means by the people who wrote it. You need to read the Federalist Papers. Welfare does not mean welfare as they named it years later to sound constitutional.

Welfare means, fiscal responsibility in government and that the government will act in the best interest of the people. Not rob from the rich and give to the poor.

[CHardi1099]

First of all slavery was Abolished.

Amendment 9- Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

The enumerated powers are a list of nonspecific responsibilities found in Article 1 Section 8 of the United States Constitution, which iterates the authority granted to the United States Congress. Congress may exercise only those powers that are granted to it by the Constitution, limited by the Bill of Rights and the other protections found in the Constitutional text.

[bpa619]

Uh... yes and no.

While yes, congress has enumerated powers and so on... the 9th amendment refers to the enumerated powers in the bill of rights and the people, or rather, the powers that aren't explicitly stated... you fucking idiot. It has, essentially, nothing to do with the congress.

Seriously what the fuck are you talking about with all this shit? All I see is you hate welfare... and taxes... or something.

If you don't like it... secede, "stop working," or get the fuck out.

[mastior]

Mr TESTOSTERONE

[Mom2BTJ]

As a woman, I would find it highly offensive if I was hired only because of affirmative action.

It would imply to me that I am seen as someone much too stupid to make it on my own merit, so I have to be helped by people so much smarter than I am.

How many people look at people of different races and/or women in professional roles and wonder if they are only there because of affirmation action and not because they are the best person for the job?

[GateKeeper50hotmail]

Did you stop to consider that there may not be any women in many professional roles merely because they are female. Sotomayor would probably only be a law clerk or secretary without the door to the law school being forced open for her by affirmative action. From there, she did the rest on her own.

[Mom2BTJ]

@GateKeeper50hotmail Wow, so you mean when my first pick of colleges turned me down because my grades weren't good enough I could have demanded they accept me under Affirmative Action?

Thank you, Sotomayor for letting the rest of us women know that we don't need to study hard and get good grades to get into college. All we have to do is demand to be let in under Affirmative Action.

[tombeardman]

You don't get it even when it is spelled out for you. Of course you didn't get into your college of choice, it is all laid out in front of you in plain sight and clear logic. Tell us all how affirmative action isn't not only a good thing but a moral imperative. Besides, it is apparent that by your comments, you don't understand what affirmative action really is.

[Mom2BTJ]

@tombeardman It means if you are woman and/or certain races you can take the spot in college that you didn't earn or get a job that you're not qualified for.

I regret that I didn't demand my first pick of colleges didn't throw out someone who earned the right to be there to make room for me. I was naive to think that I should have done better in school so I could go there.

Thank you for letting this minority woman know I have a free pass to be hired over a more qualified person. WooHoo!

[tombeardman]

Again, you obviously don't know how affirmative action works. Please look it up. There are rules and regulations. It doesn't mean that unqualified people get the job or that someone undeserving gets into the best college. Please educate yourself before you state your opinions. It's never as simple as some will make it out to be. I could explain it to you, but I feel it is your responsibility to know what you are talking about.

[Mom2BTJ]

Let's ask Sotomayor about her admitting to being an Affirmative Action baby and who got pushed out so she could go to college.

Let's ask her why she thought it was just fine and dandy to discriminate against some white guys and a Latino, but to do so against others is very wrong.

Let's ask her about being a member of the hate group "La Raza" and don't think they aren't. They don't hide it very well.

She is a racists who should never have been near the Supreme Court. What next? A KKK member?

[emptycell]

@Mom2BTJ I find it funny that minorities always bare the blame when ever a white person does not get into their school of choice. consider the fact that black people are 12% of the population, then consider how many apply to college, let alone top schools.

I find it funny that minorities always bare the blame when ever a white person does not get into their school of choice

[emptycell]

@Mom2BTJ There are more white people with comparable lower grades who get into these elite institutions at the expense of their counter parts with higher grade point averages. look it up! GPA, while a strong determinat, is only one of several measures adcoms use to gauge prospective students. so a well rounded/community involved a 3.7 is more likely to get admissions over a straight A 4.0.

Affirmative action provides opportunities to minorities who would otherwise be discriminated against.

[Mom2BTJ]

I, as a woman obviously need you as a man to explain Affirmative Action to me. You see, as a minority woman I'm obviously too stupid to understand or get hired on my own merits, I need an unfair advantage.

Oh please, so much better and wiser man, explain it to me, I just be too stupid.

How many white guys can we accuse of racism and/or sexism to get some easy cash?

[tombeardman]

You obviously are comfortable in your delusions and are unwilling to research anything you talk about in ernest. So I am done with you. I does no one any good to ramble on about lies and half truths. I hope you find peace.

[Mom2BTJ]

You are delusional to think us non white guys are much too weak to make it on our own, so we need a special law so we can edge out the more qualified person especially if they are a white guy!

You trying to patronize me shows you to be a liberal white guilt type person or a minority that thinks they are "owed" something.

We all know that white guys are born with privilege. They don't have to work for anything it's just handed to them. You really are a legend in your own mind, aren't you?

[tombeardman]

You don't know me. Again, I urge you to read something. Do some real research on the subject and quit spouting the same tired old talking points. You have said nothing I haven't heard a thousand times and I still say you are wrong. Have you ever questioned you own ideas? I have often. I know where I stand and why. I do not patronize you, I only wish you peace of mind. I am sincere in what I say. Peace.

[Mom2BTJ]

I have probably read more in one week than you have in your lifetime, so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Once, Affirmative Action was a good thing, now it's just an unfair advantage. Maybe if you read more you would know that.

I always try to look at both sides of an issue before forming an opinion instead of just taking what I hear on news channels as gospel.

I do have peace of mind.. I have no ill will towards you or anyone else that disagrees with me.

[tombeardman]

so how was affirmative action a good thing at one point in time and not now. Also, what about the affirmative action for the rich? GW Bush is a good example of that. Someone that got B's &C's in school gets into Harvard Business School just because of his daddy. Also, athletic scholarships take up a lot of space in the academic world. Just because someone can throw a ball around means that they can get in regardless of their grades, etc.? Just saying it's a lot more complicated than you make it.

[Mom2BTJ]

I agree with you on athletic scholarships and/or who your daddy is scholarships. It should be based on grades and not how well you can throw a ball or who your daddy is.

I often wonder who lost their space at that university so they can bring in someone who can throw a ball.

I was saying Affirmative Action was useful right after the Civil Rights Movement, but now it is discriminatory We can't have a double standard on that.

Do you suffer from insomnia too or are you just a night person?

[tombeardman]

My argument for affirmative action is that 500 years of slavery and discrimination towards all people of color and including indigenous people has created an environment that makes it near impossible for someone to "get out" of poverty. Malcolm Gladwell makes the case in "Outliers" for success being largely situational. I believe that affirmative action is still needed in order to change those situations. I also believe that we owe it to our fellow human beings, not out of guilt, out of love.

[emptycell]

@Mom2BTJ Do you know who benefits more from affirmative action? are u aware of the fact that far more white people with inferior grades often, inexplicably, gain admissions in the countrys top university at the expense of other whites who are seemingly more qualified? How do you feel about those other students who get scholarships for sports such as hockey, diving, cricket etc?

[emptycell]

@Mom2BTJ In terms of employment, people with white names are more likely to get calls for interviews even with the same qualifications

[emptycell]

@Mom2BTJ There are more white people with lower grade scores who make it into the top schools at the expense of their counter parts with higher grade scores. It is important to note that grades, while a strong determinat of success, is not the sole criteria the schools use to gauge applicants. In other words a well rounded 3.6 student is more likely to get admission than a 4.0 math geek.

[stickyickyicky1203]

@GateKeeper50hotmail I'm positive that women aren't, and have never been discriminated against. Whoever makes a company the most money will be hired. This is why blacks have a hard time finding work, they have lower IQ's. Call me racist, I really don't care. This is just science. Proof of this theorem lies in Africa, where they have yet to create a developed society without the help of whites. i.e. South Africa, which was settled by the Dutch and the British.

[mastior]

You are so right....

Another reason one would use affirmative action is JUST TO BE A DYKE, for the so called movement.

If ONE has no merit, misery loves company. Then what do you have ? The lost mass's of GED's

[Mom2BTJ]

@mastior Does that mean I have to be a lesbian now? My husband is going to be very upset as will I.

Oh well, that just means that I can now demand I have my dream job and if I'm told I'm not qualified I can stage a protest against their homophobia.

That's BRILLIANT, mastior!

[mastior]

"QUOTE"

Thank you, Sotomayor for letting the rest of us women know that we don't need to study hard and get good grades to get into college. All we have to do is demand to be let in under Affirmative Action.

Redundantly profound : Does it mean you're a LEzBIAN ? And yes many dykes are using affirmative Action they can't make it other wise. .

Thank you for the compliment. has a nice ring to it.

By your statement you expressed confidence, very powerful and astounding. Good for you.

[mastior]

Homophobia IS: when Dykes or FAGGOT take their shit out of the closet. MOM2BTJ do you share you sex life to all ?

OR do you profess your sexual movement upon the public? You do your thing as well as the rest, No need to know about their disturbing insecure deviance's. Go to work and go home to your worlds. Don't continue To irritate the Normal World. Whom PREFERS not to be reminded about The Repulsion of QUEERS.

[Mom2BTJ]

I don't broadcast that I'm straight, but it's obvious if someone is trying to figure it out.

If it means I can demand my dream job without all the work of qualifying for it, I can pretend to be a lesbian.

[mastior]

& Many do, movies especially. You may have to prove it

how far will you pretend ?

[Mom2BTJ]

Damn you! I was trying to eat lunch and have now lost my appetite!

I am going to have to try to get that image out of my head now.

[mastior]

Yaaa Thought So. I mentioned parents send their children to college to get an education they come home at a Dyke ?

MMMMM NOT...

Then there is the innuendo I'm finding myself... hahahahaha

All I got to say is which finger does she use ?

Then there are the less than GED element who will do anything to be accepted. hahahahaha A 300 pounder winking at you ? hahahahahahahaha come here little girl

Women I know are executives, CFO's, CEO's, Entrepreneur's. Not losers of Quota

[WikeddTung]

@Mom2BTJ i hope you protested just as vigorously when george w. bush was made president by judicial fiat. if anyone never in his life merited his position it would be the C student yale legacy cheerleader jr oilman from texas by way of maine. he is no different from the prince of wales in that his "privileges" and "advantages" weren't earned. if you don't find that just as offensive as being given preferential treatment because of your sex than you, my dear, are a hypocrite.

[makeitfunkyfolks]

@Mom2BTJ First of all number one beneficiary of affirmative action are white women. Unfortunately, the face of affirmative action is african americans and hispanics. US companies and government are filled with "affirmative action" unqualified white men (which is not to say that all white men in co's and gov't are unqualified but many are). Personally, as an african american, I wish AA would be done away with - We benefit the least from it and are blamed the most for it, just like welfare.

[emptycell]

@Mom2BTJ You missed the point completely. Affirmative action is not meant to aimlessly promote minorities and women. It is meant to protect those who, equally qualified, would otherwise not be hired because of their gender or "race".

[emptycell]

@Mom2BTJ You missed the point completely. Affirmative action is not meant to aimlessly promote minorities and women. It is meant to protect those who, equally qualified, would otherwise not be hired because of their gender or "race".

[emptycell]

@Mom2BTJ Racists and sexists have a high high tendency to ignore what you bring to the table in terms of skills and rather focus on your appearance. If sotomayor was truly an "Affirmative Action baby", there is no way she would have had the grades she had or made it to the yale law review

[emptycell]

@Mom2BTJ You missed the point completely. Affirmative action is not meant to aimlessly promote minorities and women. It is meant to protect those who, equally qualified, would otherwise not be hired because of their gender or "race".

[rythmcity]

@Mom2BTJ Affirmative action does not grant you success. Sorry, but any doors that have been opened for you, thus far, has been the product of affirmative action.

It's appalling when "white" women think that affirmative action only applies to minorities. Affirmative action is spread well beyond race, but gender, as well.

[ActaNonVerba71]

@Mom2BTJ You do know that white women have been, by far, the group that has benefitted the most from affirmative action, right? The saddest part is that even so-called egalitarian white women who support affirmative action still like to frame affirmative action in terms of minorities.....as members of the dominant group they are interested in keeping up the meritocracy myth.

[darmokandgalad]

As much as I love this segment, it's pretty much pointless. Rachel is never going to convince Pat that his racism is wrong by citing facts because Pat doesn't base his racist beliefs on facts in the first place. They're emotional beliefs. Rachel can't win with a fact-based strategy.

[cylonmodelsix]

affirmative action is bigotry

[GospelAccording2ME]

He's an old idiot, but so entertaining to watch....similar to a circus animal.

[DCUPtoejuice]

leahy your brain sucks

[IAMSHAK]

Rachel Maddow is awsome :)

[CGpolTV]

She's a dumb dyke

[return135]

Affirmative action is bad economic and social policy. I learned about that from thomas Sowell :) Rachel should listen to him too.

[A86]

Nothing was taken out of context. Pat was flat-out wrong.

[bgermain7]

Fact Check: Rachel is a joke. Taking someone out of context is not a "fact check" exercise. Get a life.

[jbz7890]

Before the Civil Rights movement, Harvard routinely denied admission to black applicants with perfect GPA's and perfect SAT scores...

Who can believe that bullshit?

If colleges cannot find qualified black applicants now, why would they have been able to find them a hundred years ago?

Colleges never discriminated against qualified black applicants -- qualified black applicants didn't exist!

[DCUPtoejuice]

jbz7890, I think you need to do some reading on the subject.

[jbz7890]

I've done plenty of reading on the subject, and I know that virtually no blacks are qualified to attend top universities.

For instance, only around 20 black students in the entire world score at or above Harvard Law School's 25th percentile for LSAT scores (170) each year.

Thus, any race-neutral policy will result in extremely low levels of black students in universities because they simply are not qualified to attend, not because of discrimination.

[GospelAccording2ME]

DCUP, while I appreciate your attempt to help educate jbz7890, his/her comment pretty much sums up his/her mentality. I've learned never to argue with a fool. I just laugh at them. LOL

[hrmny24]

Let's take your argument to its logical conclusion... You say: "Qualified black applicants didn't exist!"

OK, why didn't they exist? Was it from some innate inferiority to white people? Anyone who believes that's the reason is clearly racist and highly ignorant.

I'm going to assume you're not racist or ignorant. In that case, you must believe the disadvantaged status of black people in America is the reason they were not qualified... (cont'd)

[hrmny24]

...Shouldn't we try to correct that in some way? I know, Affirmative Action is not ideal. Ideally, we could start from the very beginning, from birth, and give everyone the same opportunities, and then have truly color-blind admissions. Until we figure out a way to do that, I don't think Affirmative Action is such a terrible thing.

By the way, I went to Princeton (class of '08). I can't recall EVER thinking that ANY of the myriad people of color I met there didn't belong there.

[jbz7890]

"By the way, I went to Princeton (class of '08)."

I don't know if you are aware of this, but no one takes claims like these seriously on the internet.

Stick to the facts.

[hrmny24]

I understand why people don't take such claims seriously... but er, actually, in this case, I did stick to the facts. I did go to Princeton. You don't have to believe me. But you can find my psychology thesis on gender, humor, and attraction in the Mudd Library. I'll admit, I was thoroughly middle-of-the-road while at Princeton, but I did graduate.

[jbz7890]

"Ideally, we could start from the very beginning, from birth, and give everyone the same opportunities"

Black students whose parents graduated from grad school score lower on the SAT than do white students whose parents only graduated from high school. (This statistic is from the Wikipedia article on the SAT.)

The black-white achievement gap isn't about wealth, parental education, or any known non-genetic factor. Genes seem to be the only plausible explanation.

[hrmny24]

I could go into the myriad studies on stereotype threat, or I could point out that higher education admissions offices are starting to realize that the SAT is not really the best indicator of actual intelligence, but really, you exhaust me. Your cynicism depresses me. And what makes your claims outrageous is not just your blatant racism, but your conviction that such bias is based in fact.

[jbz7890]

The SAT is actually an excellent measurement of intelligence, and its correlation with other intelligence tests is around .8, which is very high.

Stereotype threat is an ad hoc theory that has very little empirical support. Also, it's based on the assumption that black students know that blacks do poorly on intelligence tests, and most black (and white) students do not know this.

(cont'd)

[jbz7890]

The reason why you and almost every American believe that all races are equally intelligent is that the science community hides the facts.

Snyderman and Rothman performed a study in which they found that only 15% of human intelligence experts believed that racial differences in intelligence are non-genetic. (You can read about it if you search for "

Snyderman and Rothman" on Wikipedia.) However, the media never report these findings.

[jbz7890]

Human races split around 100,000 years ago -- bear in mind that humans have only existed for 200,000 years -- and moved to different environments. In these different environments, humans were subjected to different selective pressures. For instance, in the hot climate of Sudan, humans needed to be tall and thin to dissipate heat, which is why Sudanese people are tall and thin.

(cont'd)

[jbz7890]

However, in European and Asian climates, which are cold and unforgiving, humans needed to make clothing and save food in order to survive, both of which required high intelligence levels. Thus, certain environments selected for high intelligence, and the humans in these environments gradually became more intelligent.

Scientists have even found that certain intelligence-influencing genes are more common in Europe and Asian than in Africa.

(cont'd)

[jbz7890]

One theory, put forward by Dr. Bruce Lahn of UChicago, is that genetic mutations that increased a carrier's intelligence spread rapidly in Europe and Asia since intelligence was so important in these climates. But in Africa, where intelligence was less important for survival, these mutations rarely spread.

The science behind racial differences in intelligence is incontrovertible. Whether you want to accept it is up to you.

[hrmny24]

The science is by no means incontrovertible. You and I both know you can find a scientific study to support almost any agenda. I'm betting we could even look at the exact same study and both come away with different conclusions. I disagree with you, and I think you and the academics you cite base your position mainly on conjecture. I'm sure you think I am naive and over-political.

(cont'd)

[jbz7890]

hrmny24, are you religious? (I probably should have asked this question first.)

If you are religious, then you can reasonably believe that all races are equally intelligent.

If you are not religious, then you should have no reason to believe that all races are equally intelligent.

[jeannshi]

Did you know that before the french revolution, europe was living exactly like africa: that's up to the 18th century: wars, pauverty, exploitation, poor living conditions etc. society evolves and this has nothing to do with genes: environment and needs dictate. since 18th century, africa and africans are changing despite all the huddles: foreign inteferance, exploitation...

[hrmny24]

I will never convince you, and you will never convince me, at least not in a YouTube comment thread (which is now starting to seem silly). We are both biased.

If I have to choose a bias, I will always choose the one least likely to do harm. I believe that your views are harmful, and will not sign on to them.

[hrmny24]

For the record, I am not religious. I'd say I'm Buddhist in philosophy, for the most part, but I try to take things on a case-by-case basis.

I am, however, deeply concerned with ethics.

[jbz7890]

Actually, I do think I can convince you if you are open-minded enough to consider a reviled and hated but strongly supported scientific view.

A year ago, I believed as firmly as you do that all races are equally intelligent. I would have told someone that I knew for a fact that all races are equally intelligent and that nothing could make me think otherwise.

Boy, how I've changed!

[hrmny24]

No, thanks.

[jbz7890]

Okay, last question:

What would convince you that the black-white intelligence gap is at least partially genetic?

[hrmny24]

First you'd have to convince me that there is an actual gap in the innate intelligence of black and white people. And you cannot convince me of that.

I very much appreciate the respectful tone of this discourse, but I could never endorse a point of view that I believe leads inevitably to discrimination. I have nothing more to say.

[jeannshi]

talking of these genes, did you know that not all europe is living up to your post early modern world ex. Moldovia and the whole region yet they are in europe. except a few countries in asia, majority are still struggling with corruption, mismanagements and prevalent poverty

[jeannshi]

A theory is work in progress. It is never a fact hence subjected to ERRORS and change: lots of them have chenged. ex.The Geocentric model.

When you say genetic mutation that carries intelligence bypassed africa, then there is a discourse and at the core of it is defining intelligence itself.

[jeannshi]

can everyone sing at the world stage: No. Does it take intelligence to effect change in the society: Yes, does it take intelligence to perform the first heart open surgery in 1893 ask Hale william, how about blood preservation, or traffic signal or how about Elijah Mccoy in the train industry,the list is long but just a few and this in a short period! humans adapt to the environment and attend to their needs as they arise and this makes a difference

[dEdGrimley]

I actually like Pat about 1/4 of the time, but yea... He just failed hardcore on this debate.