You give a realists opinions on whether USA had the right to invade Iraq in the first place and then an idealist's opinion on what the strategy should be now that the invasion is 5 years old. You are not giving 2 perspective on the same thing.
nope, you don't violate others sovereignty if you expect people to respect your own. Idealism breaks down to the state that has the most power has the right to conquer the weak. So that means that if the rest of the world wanted to unite and conquer america it's perfectly okay. Might doesn't make right. It never does. It's giving into our carnal nature to control everything. That is the moral of Satan. The strong oppress the weak. Murder butcher plunder they were weak they deserve it.
Look at the war this way, if the US move out of the war, then the world will look at the US worse than it did after we left vietnam. Vietnam was considered a loss for the US and itll only be considered another loss if we pull out of Iraq. That ruins our trade, our economy, and political standings between other countries since we'll be known as a weak nation.
no the world would respect us for actually respecting another people for a change instead of killing them all off or conquering them. All people have the same natural god given rights we do. We are not a divine nation. We should be leading by example not repeating the same might makes right garbage again and again. We have the power to be real peacekeepers, but all the government seems interested in doing is killing women and children and destroying families over there.
The funny thing about you people against the war is that no one understands it's really against Al-Qaelda and terrorists, not Iraq. The only way to end it is killing off Al-Qaeda, hence the reason Obama is a big fool for planning to remove forces, especially since than Al-Qaeda will wait and go on the offensive when we leave.
Realism?-how has this been good for America? Idealism?-how was it moral to do a preemptive attack that has left the country in its present state with so many dead? The agendas that this war serves have not served our nation and has had no morality involved in the motivations for it.
Iraq is like Stalingrad, American soilders will do their historic duty and die for Oil? I think the main goal in iraq is to spend as much money as possible, and bankrupt the US. Next step, North American Union, Amero, etc...
It's now 4:45am and I have to hit the sack so I will contiue this conversation tomorrow if you like. Trust me when I say this things aren't what you think and this isn't about a conspiracy theory or anything but it is about common sense. Do you know who this guy is?
I don't talk like most Irish on youtube because most people in this world are asleep..Look I'm not attacking you but I really think your wrong about hte war in Iraq. Have you ever heard of the Bilderberg group?
This war is about Oil and power. Now Saddam is gone could America not re-deploy their troops to Afghanistan too go after the terror organisation Al Qaeda and Bin Laden (Who is dead but they need him alive for propaganda)? No they continue to stay inn Iraq for fuck all!
I honestly don't beleive you actually listened to my video. I explained what would happen if the U.S. Pulled troops out. It's a very complicated situation, and simply leaving does not end the strife and bloodshed, it only escelates it.
The entire world watched the USA pick on and then attack a smaller weaker country. The same as a large bully attacking a small crippled kid in the school yard. Now everyone looking on witnessed the small crippled kid give the big bully a bloody nose and a broken arm. This makes the bully (USA) look very weak and pitiful. Our dollar is crashing, many lives have been lost, and there is nothing to actually win. We can't even win back our dignity.
I did not miss that point. I put a special segment about Athens doing the same to a small Greek City. Like they said, in a realists eyes, The Strong take what they will, the week suffer what they must. Again, every major power has done it, and China will do it after us.
The Irish suffered the same occupation that Iraq is suffering now. Women and Children are dying for nothing and if you look at alternative sources than Fox and the rest of the MSM you would realise that the Iraqi people do not want the US in their country the same as the Irish do not want the British in their country. You're a moron and you don't even realise it.
Let me try and write this again, my other attempt did not post. In Iraq things are different than they were in Ireland. For instance, The Coalition isn't trying to breed out Iraqis, they aren't sending people to live on Iraqi land. They aren't, in essence, commiting a genocide.
Ok let me explain things how I see it. The British came to Ireland and put British forces on the streets fighting to take control of the country. The Irish people revolted and created the IRA terrorist organisation. / The Americans go to Iraq and put American forces on the streets. Do you not think this will increase the chances of terrorism? The longer America stays in Iraq the longer it will breed hatred. Saddam is gone come home and stop making excuses to stay on foreign land.
The allies put boots on the ground in German streets. Does this make them wrong? We've been in Korea for 40 years, Germany and Japan for 60. Where are the terrorists?
Cont...Forth Germany was invading other nations just like America is Invading Iraq and soon to be Iran so this in no comparision to the war in Iraq. Fifth America is on the border of Korea (South) not in Nrt Korea and if they were they would be killed instantly by Korean forces. In Fact Americans are not allowed step foot on nrt Korean soil. Sixth...cont post..
From an American perspective this is true. But from an Iraqi perspective, if you count their dead vs American dead, the ratios are so big that it appears very horrible. You have a conclusion assumed in - if the US stays, Iraq will be peaceful. Look at it today, is it? I will ask the question 5 years from now.. and your answer will not change. There are some people who would not let that change - unfortunately
Well, who is doing the killing? Militias are acounting for thousands of dead. Suicide bombing civilians is not the work of the U.S. and the rare Blackwater problems hardly compare to Sunni vs Shi'ite violence. In 5 years time, I'd hope the Iraqi government would be strong enough for us to be withdraweling. If things are looking good, which they are looking much better, why run when you can win?
Ok I think you have it totally wrong in your mind. First where Militias attacking Saddam and Iraq before America stepped foot on their soil? NO! Second do you expect the Iraqi people to accept a government that was setup but America? REAL DEMOCRACY IN THE MAKING! Third things are not looking good at all. STOP WATCHING FOX NEWS ETC. Forth...follow up post
Yeah, they tried, but they were slaughtered. They voted that Government in, and they are signing up for the Military, so again yes. I don't watch Fox news. No offense, but I am starting to doubt that you are in fact from Ireland, just looking at your profile, you seem like another Ron Paul Multiple acount.
Well if you think that then ask me anything about my country and I will answer. I'm from Dublin and now you are starting to attack the fact of where I am from because you don't understand the issues. My Ip address is 84.203.35.213 and you can do a tracert on it to confirm it. Click Start type cmd and thten type tracter 84.203.35.213 this will route my address to Ireland!!
At least you agree.. but there is a problem there. The US is not getting any more oil (look at crude prices) than it was before the war. If this had been helping, I would have seen reason for it. Of course I would prefer the US super power over China super power any day. But that is precisely this war is bad - its helping China grow instead!
An army fights on its stomach (and armor) if we cannot fund the soldiers, how will they fight? Think about that.
Personally I don't think the war was for Oil in the first place. I think the main problem with Iraq is the Partisan BS we have to deal with. If the troops need armor, ship it to them. Democraticaly controlled Congress is trying to get votes by appearing tuff against Bush, and Bush is just incompetant in running the war. Things are picking up, however, and there is new hope for once Hopeless Iraq.
Oil? Of course not.. If it was, it would have been a bit more palatable than it is now. It was about money and finding ways to stuff cronies with tax payer monies. The Democrats want to do the same thing to their cronies.
You seem to think (Same as most liberals) that the govt. has an endless supply of money. Stop and ask yourself, who will pay for the armor? And how will we pay for it in future if the economic downturn continues?
There is nothing wrong with being a conservative and there is nothing wrong with watching FOX NEWS. News dosent have to be left wing to be legit. In America we are all allowed to think for ourselves and that is why FOX is so incredibly successful. In case you didnt know, everyone here watches FOX.If you dont like it, thats fine, but understand in America its not a law for you to be liberal.
The problem I have with Fox is not and left or right stance. It's the fact that it puts out propaganda and it manipulates the news stories to its own or should I say Rupert Murdoch's stance on issues. There is a video I think it's on YT here and it has ex employees of Fox talking about the faxes they received every morning telling them what they will be covering for that day. Besides most MSM in the US are owned by only 6 companies, free press? I don't think so..
Don't watch TV, read. TV is bullshit. Been TV free for a year now and I know more about what is going on then I ever did spending countless hours staring at the zombie tube.
I would hope you can explain the "rare" problems to all those children that lost their parents. All those girls who will have no one to support them and may have to resort to prostitution. As for who is doing the killing - I dont know because I am not there. Are you? Besides a govt. raised under the shadow of a foreign gun is far from an "elected" govt. That is precisely why most sovereign countries would not allow foreign monitoring of their elections (some to hide the election frauds)
Well, the blackwater crap was just that, a crappy deal for everyone envolved. But like they say "shit happens". Not to say it's not really sad and unfortunate.
But Yeah, I havn't been to Iraq, and I don't want to go...I wasn't born to be a soldier. Yet, I know many people in Iraq, and I go by what they tell me and what I read in the papers.
hmm "shit happens". Would you say that about 9/11? If not, why not? I find it hard to believe that you know anything about the blackwater issue.. could you explain what is the worst aspect of it? As to what "many people" tell you - check if soldiers have the right to speak freely. Maybe you should start listening to what they are not saying.
The bully wasnt the US, the US is tired of watching the large bully attack,abuse,rape,commmit genocide,and take from everyone on the playground for the benefit of his handful of favorites. The US is trying to make the playground safe from the bully, even if many on the playground would rather let the bully have his way to avoid confrontation.
America is not the Bully? Do you know yesterday LONDON (Reuters) put out a story that 946,258 to 1.12 million people have died in Iraq. The comprehensive research covered 15 of Iraq's 18 provinces. I'm sure the families of these dead are delighted that America came to rescues them. But again you will never hear this story on Fox or any other MSM in the US. If Al Qaeda was the enemy that caused 911 then why did the US administration turn its focus to Iraq and ignore Bin Laden?
Iraq isn't the enemy. Al-Qaeda is, that's the point of the war, the war on terror, not Iraq war. That's the thing, it's not against Iraq, we're with Iraq and exterminating the terrorists, they got us first, we have the right to wage war on them.
Wow that's ignorant. By killing everybody this makes the playground safer? These are nations we're talking about here not parts of the US. It has no jurisdiction in the middle east. That is those sovereign peoples land. As I've said we are not god and by trying to be god it only leads to more trouble. How many families have been torn apart over there that wouldn't have been if we hadn't invaded? countless. We have been over there creating problems for a few decades now, years before the war.
Ok I just had a look at your profile and you have this impression that you are Irish. You may have a blood line but I can tell you now you are not Irish for the simple fact that if you lived where I do in Ireland you would understand that what is happening in Iraq happened here in Ireland with the British. Do you think that the British Empire had it right too? Wake up....
I never told anyone I was Irish, I would have an Irish flag in my profile If I thought I was. But, regaurding the entire comparison between Northern Ireland and Iraq, there is no comparison, see above.
But also, do keep in mind that I'm trying to be neutral in all this and look at this through 2 viewpoints. In Ireland for instance, I can see Britain dominating Ireland because they can (Realism) but I disagree with them because it's not right, they have no reason to do it (Idealism). I'm personally more of an idealist, so there you have it.
I'm sorry I still don't understand your view point. You think that America had the right to over through a dictator in Iraq because he said he was switching to the Euro instead of the dollar and it's all in the name of democracy even though the US also removed an elected government in Iran (19050's) and replaced him with a Dictator? I'm confused about your stance.. You should read more History my friend!
One on hand, yes. Might makes right. On the other yes, as I explained in my video.
Iran or Vietnam, or Tripolli really has nothing to do with it. Past actions of the U.S. might have been bad in the eyes of an idealist, they might have been good in the eyes of a realist. You can't just set in your chair and judge this present war on things that happened 10, 20, 30 years in the past especially when they have no relevance.
Most hardcore realists opposed the invasion of Iraq because it would place the other "Axis of Evil" members, Iran and North Korea, into a more antagonistic position vis a vis the USA. The fear of a future invasion only promotes more nations to fear the US as a vicious nation unwilling to compromise. Idealists base their world view on using international organizations and using cooperation to promote shared values, the failure of the US to gather major allies to join the coalition shows this.
Now, for the most part that would argue that we need to get out. It doesn't really mean that going in was a bad decision, looking at the intel we supposidly had. Does leaving decrees terrorism or not? That is the question that I think we need to consider.
Once again, excellent response, this was the kind of thing I was looking for!
When killing thousands of people, spending a trillion dollars based on flawed (rather "fixed" (see downingstreet memos)) intelligence and causing more terrorism still doesn't convince you, that going in was a bad decision, I can't help you.
No, actually we have had a choice forever....America does not stand to gain anything but death and debt from Iraq......how is it in America's interest to go bankrupt?
I disagree. First, WMDs...If Intelligence was faulty and they actually beleived them to be there, most people (International Community) beleived them to be there, then this was a good move. If it was for oil, then setting up a puppet regime is a good move too. We don't want to be totaly dependent on the Saudis do we? I don't know why we went for sure, and I'm sure only Bush and Company do.
Of course its wrong. Over a million people died. A MILLION. If they were willing to die for freedom then they would have had started a revolution. You cant make that choice for someone else.
Okay, they did try and start a revolution. Saddam crushed it and killed many people. We were supposed to help, as usual we failed to show up. But, also, I take it your coming as an Idealist. How many more people die if we leave before Iraq is stable? How many Millions more die?
You give a realists opinions on whether USA had the right to invade Iraq in the first place and then an idealist's opinion on what the strategy should be now that the invasion is 5 years old. You are not giving 2 perspective on the same thing.
TouchtheClouds 3 years ago
nope, you don't violate others sovereignty if you expect people to respect your own. Idealism breaks down to the state that has the most power has the right to conquer the weak. So that means that if the rest of the world wanted to unite and conquer america it's perfectly okay. Might doesn't make right. It never does. It's giving into our carnal nature to control everything. That is the moral of Satan. The strong oppress the weak. Murder butcher plunder they were weak they deserve it.
Luigi84289 2 years ago
Look at the war this way, if the US move out of the war, then the world will look at the US worse than it did after we left vietnam. Vietnam was considered a loss for the US and itll only be considered another loss if we pull out of Iraq. That ruins our trade, our economy, and political standings between other countries since we'll be known as a weak nation.
thomasforlyfe 3 years ago
no the world would respect us for actually respecting another people for a change instead of killing them all off or conquering them. All people have the same natural god given rights we do. We are not a divine nation. We should be leading by example not repeating the same might makes right garbage again and again. We have the power to be real peacekeepers, but all the government seems interested in doing is killing women and children and destroying families over there.
Luigi84289 2 years ago
The funny thing about you people against the war is that no one understands it's really against Al-Qaelda and terrorists, not Iraq. The only way to end it is killing off Al-Qaeda, hence the reason Obama is a big fool for planning to remove forces, especially since than Al-Qaeda will wait and go on the offensive when we leave.
Songwriter4God 2 years ago
Realism?-how has this been good for America? Idealism?-how was it moral to do a preemptive attack that has left the country in its present state with so many dead? The agendas that this war serves have not served our nation and has had no morality involved in the motivations for it.
upconstruct 4 years ago
Iraq is like Stalingrad, American soilders will do their historic duty and die for Oil? I think the main goal in iraq is to spend as much money as possible, and bankrupt the US. Next step, North American Union, Amero, etc...
The free world is toast.
boots920 4 years ago
It's now 4:45am and I have to hit the sack so I will contiue this conversation tomorrow if you like. Trust me when I say this things aren't what you think and this isn't about a conspiracy theory or anything but it is about common sense. Do you know who this guy is?
watch?v=249JaIaubVw&NR=1
watch?v=HrdFFCnYtbk
watch?v=Wj0m0dSUPR8&feature=related
sifromeire 4 years ago
Have a good night.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
Morning.. 14:00pm here now ;)
sifromeire 4 years ago
I don't talk like most Irish on youtube because most people in this world are asleep..Look I'm not attacking you but I really think your wrong about hte war in Iraq. Have you ever heard of the Bilderberg group?
sifromeire 4 years ago
This war is about Oil and power. Now Saddam is gone could America not re-deploy their troops to Afghanistan too go after the terror organisation Al Qaeda and Bin Laden (Who is dead but they need him alive for propaganda)? No they continue to stay inn Iraq for fuck all!
sifromeire 4 years ago
I honestly don't beleive you actually listened to my video. I explained what would happen if the U.S. Pulled troops out. It's a very complicated situation, and simply leaving does not end the strife and bloodshed, it only escelates it.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
Shame on the bully...............
dragonxx77 4 years ago
You are missing one huge point...
The entire world watched the USA pick on and then attack a smaller weaker country. The same as a large bully attacking a small crippled kid in the school yard. Now everyone looking on witnessed the small crippled kid give the big bully a bloody nose and a broken arm. This makes the bully (USA) look very weak and pitiful. Our dollar is crashing, many lives have been lost, and there is nothing to actually win. We can't even win back our dignity.
dragonxx77 4 years ago
I did not miss that point. I put a special segment about Athens doing the same to a small Greek City. Like they said, in a realists eyes, The Strong take what they will, the week suffer what they must. Again, every major power has done it, and China will do it after us.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
The Irish suffered the same occupation that Iraq is suffering now. Women and Children are dying for nothing and if you look at alternative sources than Fox and the rest of the MSM you would realise that the Iraqi people do not want the US in their country the same as the Irish do not want the British in their country. You're a moron and you don't even realise it.
sifromeire 4 years ago
Let me try and write this again, my other attempt did not post. In Iraq things are different than they were in Ireland. For instance, The Coalition isn't trying to breed out Iraqis, they aren't sending people to live on Iraqi land. They aren't, in essence, commiting a genocide.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
Ok let me explain things how I see it. The British came to Ireland and put British forces on the streets fighting to take control of the country. The Irish people revolted and created the IRA terrorist organisation. / The Americans go to Iraq and put American forces on the streets. Do you not think this will increase the chances of terrorism? The longer America stays in Iraq the longer it will breed hatred. Saddam is gone come home and stop making excuses to stay on foreign land.
sifromeire 4 years ago
The allies put boots on the ground in German streets. Does this make them wrong? We've been in Korea for 40 years, Germany and Japan for 60. Where are the terrorists?
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
Cont...Forth Germany was invading other nations just like America is Invading Iraq and soon to be Iran so this in no comparision to the war in Iraq. Fifth America is on the border of Korea (South) not in Nrt Korea and if they were they would be killed instantly by Korean forces. In Fact Americans are not allowed step foot on nrt Korean soil. Sixth...cont post..
sifromeire 4 years ago
From an American perspective this is true. But from an Iraqi perspective, if you count their dead vs American dead, the ratios are so big that it appears very horrible. You have a conclusion assumed in - if the US stays, Iraq will be peaceful. Look at it today, is it? I will ask the question 5 years from now.. and your answer will not change. There are some people who would not let that change - unfortunately
utubehayter 4 years ago
Well, who is doing the killing? Militias are acounting for thousands of dead. Suicide bombing civilians is not the work of the U.S. and the rare Blackwater problems hardly compare to Sunni vs Shi'ite violence. In 5 years time, I'd hope the Iraqi government would be strong enough for us to be withdraweling. If things are looking good, which they are looking much better, why run when you can win?
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
Ok I think you have it totally wrong in your mind. First where Militias attacking Saddam and Iraq before America stepped foot on their soil? NO! Second do you expect the Iraqi people to accept a government that was setup but America? REAL DEMOCRACY IN THE MAKING! Third things are not looking good at all. STOP WATCHING FOX NEWS ETC. Forth...follow up post
sifromeire 4 years ago
Yeah, they tried, but they were slaughtered. They voted that Government in, and they are signing up for the Military, so again yes. I don't watch Fox news. No offense, but I am starting to doubt that you are in fact from Ireland, just looking at your profile, you seem like another Ron Paul Multiple acount.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
Well if you think that then ask me anything about my country and I will answer. I'm from Dublin and now you are starting to attack the fact of where I am from because you don't understand the issues. My Ip address is 84.203.35.213 and you can do a tracert on it to confirm it. Click Start type cmd and thten type tracter 84.203.35.213 this will route my address to Ireland!!
sifromeire 4 years ago
I'm just sayin you don't talk like most Irish do on youtube, and your profile is really bare, but I'll beleive you.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
Thats "Start" "RUN" "type CMD" then TYPE "TRACTERT 84.203.35.213" in the black dos box and wait for the results!!!
sifromeire 4 years ago
Like I said, I beleive you. But, You've hardly offered any constructive debate.
You say that this was a war for oil. I covered that in the vid.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
At least you agree.. but there is a problem there. The US is not getting any more oil (look at crude prices) than it was before the war. If this had been helping, I would have seen reason for it. Of course I would prefer the US super power over China super power any day. But that is precisely this war is bad - its helping China grow instead!
An army fights on its stomach (and armor) if we cannot fund the soldiers, how will they fight? Think about that.
utubehayter 4 years ago
Personally I don't think the war was for Oil in the first place. I think the main problem with Iraq is the Partisan BS we have to deal with. If the troops need armor, ship it to them. Democraticaly controlled Congress is trying to get votes by appearing tuff against Bush, and Bush is just incompetant in running the war. Things are picking up, however, and there is new hope for once Hopeless Iraq.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
Oil? Of course not.. If it was, it would have been a bit more palatable than it is now. It was about money and finding ways to stuff cronies with tax payer monies. The Democrats want to do the same thing to their cronies.
You seem to think (Same as most liberals) that the govt. has an endless supply of money. Stop and ask yourself, who will pay for the armor? And how will we pay for it in future if the economic downturn continues?
utubehayter 4 years ago
There is nothing wrong with being a conservative and there is nothing wrong with watching FOX NEWS. News dosent have to be left wing to be legit. In America we are all allowed to think for ourselves and that is why FOX is so incredibly successful. In case you didnt know, everyone here watches FOX.If you dont like it, thats fine, but understand in America its not a law for you to be liberal.
fabiois4KU 4 years ago
The problem I have with Fox is not and left or right stance. It's the fact that it puts out propaganda and it manipulates the news stories to its own or should I say Rupert Murdoch's stance on issues. There is a video I think it's on YT here and it has ex employees of Fox talking about the faxes they received every morning telling them what they will be covering for that day. Besides most MSM in the US are owned by only 6 companies, free press? I don't think so..
sifromeire 4 years ago
Don't watch TV, read. TV is bullshit. Been TV free for a year now and I know more about what is going on then I ever did spending countless hours staring at the zombie tube.
Luigi84289 2 years ago
I would hope you can explain the "rare" problems to all those children that lost their parents. All those girls who will have no one to support them and may have to resort to prostitution. As for who is doing the killing - I dont know because I am not there. Are you? Besides a govt. raised under the shadow of a foreign gun is far from an "elected" govt. That is precisely why most sovereign countries would not allow foreign monitoring of their elections (some to hide the election frauds)
utubehayter 4 years ago
Well, the blackwater crap was just that, a crappy deal for everyone envolved. But like they say "shit happens". Not to say it's not really sad and unfortunate.
But Yeah, I havn't been to Iraq, and I don't want to go...I wasn't born to be a soldier. Yet, I know many people in Iraq, and I go by what they tell me and what I read in the papers.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
hmm "shit happens". Would you say that about 9/11? If not, why not? I find it hard to believe that you know anything about the blackwater issue.. could you explain what is the worst aspect of it? As to what "many people" tell you - check if soldiers have the right to speak freely. Maybe you should start listening to what they are not saying.
utubehayter 4 years ago
The bully wasnt the US, the US is tired of watching the large bully attack,abuse,rape,commmit genocide,and take from everyone on the playground for the benefit of his handful of favorites. The US is trying to make the playground safe from the bully, even if many on the playground would rather let the bully have his way to avoid confrontation.
fabiois4KU 4 years ago
America is not the Bully? Do you know yesterday LONDON (Reuters) put out a story that 946,258 to 1.12 million people have died in Iraq. The comprehensive research covered 15 of Iraq's 18 provinces. I'm sure the families of these dead are delighted that America came to rescues them. But again you will never hear this story on Fox or any other MSM in the US. If Al Qaeda was the enemy that caused 911 then why did the US administration turn its focus to Iraq and ignore Bin Laden?
sifromeire 4 years ago
Exactly right we should have been working with those countries to find Bin Laden. That's what a sane nation would do.
Luigi84289 2 years ago
Iraq isn't the enemy. Al-Qaeda is, that's the point of the war, the war on terror, not Iraq war. That's the thing, it's not against Iraq, we're with Iraq and exterminating the terrorists, they got us first, we have the right to wage war on them.
Songwriter4God 2 years ago
Wow that's ignorant. By killing everybody this makes the playground safer? These are nations we're talking about here not parts of the US. It has no jurisdiction in the middle east. That is those sovereign peoples land. As I've said we are not god and by trying to be god it only leads to more trouble. How many families have been torn apart over there that wouldn't have been if we hadn't invaded? countless. We have been over there creating problems for a few decades now, years before the war.
Luigi84289 2 years ago
All war is wrong, your ideals are wrong, humans right to life is what is real
returntoiceland 4 years ago
War is not always the wrong thing. War is never easy, but it is not always wrong. Surely there are "wrong" wars though.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
Ok I just had a look at your profile and you have this impression that you are Irish. You may have a blood line but I can tell you now you are not Irish for the simple fact that if you lived where I do in Ireland you would understand that what is happening in Iraq happened here in Ireland with the British. Do you think that the British Empire had it right too? Wake up....
sifromeire 4 years ago
I never told anyone I was Irish, I would have an Irish flag in my profile If I thought I was. But, regaurding the entire comparison between Northern Ireland and Iraq, there is no comparison, see above.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
I'm looking above and I don't see you're point please explain?
sifromeire 4 years ago
Oh, perhaps it was below, on your other post.
Sorry for the misunderstanding on that one.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
But also, do keep in mind that I'm trying to be neutral in all this and look at this through 2 viewpoints. In Ireland for instance, I can see Britain dominating Ireland because they can (Realism) but I disagree with them because it's not right, they have no reason to do it (Idealism). I'm personally more of an idealist, so there you have it.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
I'm sorry I still don't understand your view point. You think that America had the right to over through a dictator in Iraq because he said he was switching to the Euro instead of the dollar and it's all in the name of democracy even though the US also removed an elected government in Iran (19050's) and replaced him with a Dictator? I'm confused about your stance.. You should read more History my friend!
sifromeire 4 years ago
One on hand, yes. Might makes right. On the other yes, as I explained in my video.
Iran or Vietnam, or Tripolli really has nothing to do with it. Past actions of the U.S. might have been bad in the eyes of an idealist, they might have been good in the eyes of a realist. You can't just set in your chair and judge this present war on things that happened 10, 20, 30 years in the past especially when they have no relevance.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
Most hardcore realists opposed the invasion of Iraq because it would place the other "Axis of Evil" members, Iran and North Korea, into a more antagonistic position vis a vis the USA. The fear of a future invasion only promotes more nations to fear the US as a vicious nation unwilling to compromise. Idealists base their world view on using international organizations and using cooperation to promote shared values, the failure of the US to gather major allies to join the coalition shows this.
Saiyuki02134 4 years ago
Realism:
"Iraq war triggered terrorism, says US intelligence report" reported in ABC Australia
"Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terrorism Threat" reported in the NYtimes
"Report: Iraq War Made Terror 'Worse'" CBSnews
YouTube doesn't allow URLs so you'll have to google those articles.
Anyway, do you think this is in our interest?
Besides, we've lost nearly 4000 US soldiers and spend 8 billion dollar/month.
raphi72 4 years ago
Excellent Response!
Now, for the most part that would argue that we need to get out. It doesn't really mean that going in was a bad decision, looking at the intel we supposidly had. Does leaving decrees terrorism or not? That is the question that I think we need to consider.
Once again, excellent response, this was the kind of thing I was looking for!
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
When killing thousands of people, spending a trillion dollars based on flawed (rather "fixed" (see downingstreet memos)) intelligence and causing more terrorism still doesn't convince you, that going in was a bad decision, I can't help you.
raphi72 4 years ago
If we had moved into Iraq in 1991, would you hold the same opinion?
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
No, actually we have had a choice forever....America does not stand to gain anything but death and debt from Iraq......how is it in America's interest to go bankrupt?
gladiator1010 4 years ago
I disagree. First, WMDs...If Intelligence was faulty and they actually beleived them to be there, most people (International Community) beleived them to be there, then this was a good move. If it was for oil, then setting up a puppet regime is a good move too. We don't want to be totaly dependent on the Saudis do we? I don't know why we went for sure, and I'm sure only Bush and Company do.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
The UN did NOT believe that Saddam had any WMDs. watch?v=iqoJHOSrjQo
raphi72 4 years ago
Of course its wrong. Over a million people died. A MILLION. If they were willing to die for freedom then they would have had started a revolution. You cant make that choice for someone else.
NeonKnight88 4 years ago
Thanks for replying, I apreciate it.
Okay, they did try and start a revolution. Saddam crushed it and killed many people. We were supposed to help, as usual we failed to show up. But, also, I take it your coming as an Idealist. How many more people die if we leave before Iraq is stable? How many Millions more die?
Luftwaffels 4 years ago
Please Ignore the "gs" thing that is visible when there is no text. It has no meaning.
Luftwaffels 4 years ago