First of all, 9/8 is not an odd meter time. 9/8 is very common. 7/8, 5/4, etc. aren't even exactly that odd anymore. Maybe it is enjoyable to listen to "abstract nerd music" for some people. Just because you don't get into it, doesn't mean other people don't. And I don't think there are any colleges that neglect to teach standards. You have to know how to play in 4/4 before playing in 5/4. And why can't nerds be entertained as well?
I do agree about what JM is saying. It is true for the people that are trying to play "jazz" But what ive found, many of these artists that are playing this new style with odd time and chromatic solos do not refer to it as jazz, they just call it music, since it really has no true name yet. It just seems that from the choice of instrumentation, people cant classify it as anything else. They cant think of a new name so they just label it as jazz or "cutting edge" or whatever people call it.
I met Jason in Juneau, AK once. He was playing with Ed Littlefield (based out of Seattle) and Christian Fabian (based out of NJ). He played some "Donna Lee" on vibes, it was pretty interesting.
woah! i mean, whoah! or is it "whoa!" .........a lot of anger, and while it contains an element of truth, i don't believe jason marsalis has heard much jazz outside of his small circle of friends.
Everyone is so crazy here. All thats happening is, musicians that have followed the lineage are upset about the name "jazz" being used to describe music coming out of universities. They are blaming the lack of jazz popularity to music that comes out of what is generally universities. I don't mind them being worried about that. the name could be different for university jazz to solve there problem. then people could understand its a different thing. But might it be too far to say it sucks?
If Marsalis had any real historical perspective he'd know that his criticisms merely reiterate what Louis Armstrong said about the beboppers (i.e., they're playing "scientific music" for themselves, turning off the audiences, etc.). Check out "Bop Will Kill Business Unless It Kills Itself First -- Louis Armstrong," _Down Beat _April 7, 1945, pp. 2-3 (reprinted in Robert Walser's _Keeping Time_). Jason, you need to study your history, man!
@culturesmatter its not the same thing unless you are talking about the mediocre 'bebopper' wannabees of that time. The difference is, now there are Universities all over the country (& world) artificially turning out higher numbers of these types of musicians than a natural economy would tolerate! For example, Kenny Garrett is a great musician.... however, aren't you tired of the lame alto players pretending they are hipper than Garrett while stealing his entire vibe? No depth, just perjury
The article I cited is from 1945, which is when bop first emerged. By the time Diz and Louis began appearing together, in the late 1950s, bop had already been made "safe" (hence, both Diz and Louis were hired by the US State Department to present their musics globally). At that point free jazz became the new "noise" "ruining" the tradition (recall the claims that Ornette was a charlatan). Diz takes about this in his autobio. Point is: younger cats will always piss off the older cats.
@culturesmatter cite all the books you want, the records speak for themselves. there are countless recordings from the 40s with pres, coleman hawkins and ben webster sitting in with bird and diz. earl hines could play exactly like lennie tristano.
the point is not older musicians not liking what the young musicians. it is university level musicians wanting to only learn technical aspects of the music while at the same time shutting their minds to the spirit of the music.
@soursourapples "Countless"?! Name me one recording that features Bird, Diz, and Pres playing together in the 1940s. To your other point: every generation features players who sound "technical" or "scientific" and others who sound "soulful" or "emotional." To many listeners today, Steve Coleman and Wynton Marsalis sound cold and technical, yet neither of those guys studied jazz in school. Meanwhile, Tony Malaby, Geri Allen, Steve Bernstein, and Ravi Coltrane all earned jazz degrees.
@culturesmatter how about live at the philharmonic 1949, and charlie parker: jam sessions, and early modern for starters.
while you may have a point in another discussion, it is not valid in this one. the marsalis' point is not about their fellow peers, i should know as i have had conversations with branford and other people. they can do their own thing. the finger is being pointed squarely at the majority jazz faculties and a broad section of jazz students today. i am sure you will agree.
Unfortunately I - and others like me - have english as our second language, which means that we cannot follow the mans speech because of TERRIBLE annoying background noise.. Pity. Hope a new version could be made.
I think its sad because when jazz musicians do come together in the public nobody will talk about this. It is easy to talk about Jason on the internet or disagree but respectfully disagree. I know the Marsalis family personally and I can tell you that they are all different so you can't just lump them into one generalized view on jazz music. The problem is that the universities don't teach the history and that my generation of musicians is making music for musicians and not people
@tripp45 as far as I'm concerned, real musicians aren't concerned with "making music for the people". Their music reflects their journey, their experiences, their "moment". Whether or not it resonates with the common man shouldn't be a deciding factor on what makes music good. Many great composers/musicians were accused of this, only to be revered and worshipped years after theyre dead, when peoples' ears finally started catching up. Marsalis knows this, he's just trying to be cool
@KingKarolus222 no, Marsalis is right! The Universities are turning out myriads of terrible narcissistic musicians! They actually think they are hot s$%t and that they are better than the Legends of the music. They are not making music, they are masturbating with sound. Back in the day, the musicians had to make a living, that weeded out this bullcrap a bit; now the lameness is sheltered in a University until it is matured and released as a ripe pile of festering musical crap!
Jason is right, current jazz education is often leaving out a large portion of the history of the music. Unfortunately, jazz education can't stop in the university - musicians have to learn to perform in public and please their audiences, and there are so few opportunities to do that now. Before universities taught jazz, it was learned by learning directly on the bandstand. Some of Jason's video was tongue in cheek - I think that jazz education programs bear the blame, not the students.
jason, yeah you right!!!! so you jazz nerds can play "cherokee" a million miles an hour, but try playing a pretty solo over "stardust..." it doesn't have to be fast to be challenging, it doesn't have to be in a weird time signature to be interesting. And here's the big thing: if people are *gasp* dancing to the music, does that mean you're selling out? I guarantee, when you play a song that people are dancing to and enjoying, NO ONE is believes for an instant that jazz is dead.
Its a dead discussion. Jason Marsalis hears within his own limitations, as we all do, and hopefully all the musicians that are serious dedicate themselves at all time to sharpen and deepen their perception of sound and context, whatever style they are into. The question here is how right you think you are, and would your stubborn 'learned' conviction limit your possibility to grow and expand? Completely irrelevant, bebop or mixed meter, its all great when its good.
Sadly, the Marsalis family's contribution to 'Jazz' has not done especially better to keep new generations of listeners interested have they. It's a nice argument about the state of university jazz products, but the source clearly does not have a better approach to an art form that is asphyxiating in it's own creative tyranny.
@HornedTube It's really all reflective of the Civil Rights effect. Hate whitey and hate whitey's music. It's closeted racism in the form of "his music is bullshit, it don't got the blues."
@KingKarolus222 I do not think that is it. No need to bring all that race politics into it. I am not a fan of the musical mentality he criticizes, but I am no more a fan of him or his espoused 'real jazz' either. This is just one extreme attacking another. Frankly, neither of these extremes seem to be tuned into the middle ground, where the music not suffocating in self conscious 'coolness' of 1957 nor cerebral masturbation exists.
If one followed Marsalis' view, whole genres of creative and wonderful music would be discredited. But this is not a 'black or white' thing, it is just an art/culture ego trip.
This is an important and timely debate. While his paranoia of jazz nerds is silly, the fact their music jazz repels rather than attracts non-musicians is relevant. The swing feel is more important than the repertoire as far as the survival of the art of melodic improvisation is concerned. As great as it is to appreciate the American Song Book, young people especially like new songs. Also when you think about it, the word "standard" has opposite meanings as an adjective or a noun.
This is sad that he is right and it is ruining Jazz. To me one of the most important parts of Jazz improve is two way communication with an audience. Too much of what passes for Jazz is not but simply self indulgence and it is ruining this great art form.
@SweetHeatLatinJazz your mistake is the use of the word "jazz". the so-called "Jazz" greats (Ellington, Miles, Parker) hated the word because it put music into a box. Most people who make the kind of music that "traditionalists" hate on aren't calling their music jazz. My point: improvisation is what it is, it doesn't have to be anything else. You may choose to make your music "Audience-friendly", but that doesn't make your music more legit than the next guy.
@KingKarolus222 It is all about the quality of the communication. and yes using the word Jazz is like classifying something as "Music" it is an enormous subject. I still hate it when musicians do not include the audience in the conversation. All the "greats" did when they played. There are many forms of Jazz and they all have their place. We just need to take more responsibility for bringing new audiences to this music.
God i feel vindicated. Exactly what i always thought about jazz musicians.
As a cracker i may say that from what i understand jazz music has been whitified, lost its swing for the most part and tried to compensate by becoming ultra brainy and technically busy.
Pt. 1)Contrast this to Terence Blanchard's YouTube vid of him at the Monk Institute, talking to the current generation of students about this very subject , however Terence comes down on the other side, in support of their "new jazz language". I tend to side with Jason, for their motto seems to be "If you can't write a tune in 4/4, write it in 13/8 w bars of 5/4 interspersed.
As odd as it may seem though, it's pretty comforting and reassuring. When musicians are using the same words about the most modern forms of that music that the one that were being thrown at say Charlie Parker, Thelonious Monk, and later at John Coltrane, Paul Bley, Eric Dolphy, Andrew Hill, Cecil Taylor (and the list goes on and on), it tells us we're living a great jazz era !
@speciman70 the most interesting thing is his take on what it is that makes people like music. most people on the planet are into music that's made by musicians who don't play standards, who don't think about tradition. Most music that people enjoy is made by musicians who are into what's going on now. He is searching for an argument against something he doesn't like, which of course there are musicians in any context who make bad music, but his argument goes against him more than anything.
Jason's tirade is the most reactionary speech I heard in a long time. Sad coming from a talented drummer who's done some great stuff (Marcus Robert's trio).
@KingKarolus222 everything he speaks is the truth. there are plenty of musicians out there like the ones he describes. i've played with plenty of them.
@sejemandhaha He represents a school of thought that believes that all music is "black" music and that "white" people "stole" the music and "over-intellectualized" it, making it invalid. they think that if the musician is not "rooted" in the blues, that his/her music lacks a fundamental root that is needed for the listener to enjoy. Basically, if it ain't Blues, it ain't music. Then he condescends on young guys who haven't completely mastered the "American Song Book"
@sejemandhaha what he doesn't seem to realize is that the music that most people "enjoy", like pop or rock, isn't made by people who are "rooted in the tradition". It's people who like to play, and who are influenced by music of their time (which IS rooted in tradition)...
Jason is 100% right. What he isn't mentioning is that many of the musicians he probably regards as more legitimate players within the tradition, such as Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Freddie Hubbard, Lee Morgan, all played like this. Ever since the late forties, jazz musicians have been playing a lot of notes. They do it well because they're in touch with the roots of it all, but it's still far too busy for the untrained ear. It's ironic. He is what he criticizes.
Yes, we need to recognize the people of the past, but we need to advance the music into the future. While he makes BROAD statements, I think he's talking about a much smaller sect of the jazz world than just anybody who plays in odd meters, or takes their solos out, but at the same time, its not good to generalize and thats all he's doing.
I see where Jason's coming from, but I don't see the point of trying to call it jazz as a specific style anymore. Use it as an umbrella term to describe the use of improvisation, groove/rhythm, and deeper harmonies, but you will hardly ever see musicians do a gig of just walking four, in the pocket solos, and heads in and out. It's all music by this point.
@iamdethhedd please elaborate. it seems your only reason for this type of comment would mean that he has offended you, which would mean that you fall into the very category of musicians he is describing.
Everything that he complains about could be argued about the "traditional" jazz approach(when played badly especially): "Boring, audience doesn't get it, thousand notes a minute." Another Marsalis proving himself and family (with exception to Ellis), as being totally full of it and themselves. Get rid of your ego, and play some music man!
@1smileymn but aside from the times you might hear "traditional jazz" played badly, it is still very important for every musician to have knowledge of, or at the very least, to not openly despise. It can be just as entertaining of an experience as modern jazz. Plus, have you heard the Marsalis family play "traditionally"? Do they bore you? They're all killin musicians.
@adamr63 wtf are you talking about? How is this argument even deniable? Its so true that its disgusting. Jason is just making the claim that no one else will.
@copedogg888 You'd be better served by exploring why this is such an emotive topic for yourself than to attack everyone with a different opinion. No one else makes this claim? It's as old as 'jazz' is and is only slightly less interesting as debating what jazz itself is.
I think he should say sorry for this video, or maybe he need more atention from the audience while he play, cause well..as you see guys..this jason marsalis really need much atention for his music...
Ironic for him to criticize about music being boring or uninteresting. As a drummer he brings no fire whatsoever. He's a technically sound drummer but has no presence.
so audiences can't enjoy music that's not swing and/or standards, or music that's not in 4/4 time? how about "the ocean" by led zeppelin? or "tom sawyer" by rush? or "take five" or "blue rondo a la turk"? "money" by pink floyd? or balkan or south asian music?
This is why I always call "Happy Birthday to You" on every gig, right after we play "Billie Jean" and the theme song from Titantic. Good thing none of our jazz audiences go to college and learn to become nerds.
First of all, 9/8 is not an odd meter time. 9/8 is very common. 7/8, 5/4, etc. aren't even exactly that odd anymore. Maybe it is enjoyable to listen to "abstract nerd music" for some people. Just because you don't get into it, doesn't mean other people don't. And I don't think there are any colleges that neglect to teach standards. You have to know how to play in 4/4 before playing in 5/4. And why can't nerds be entertained as well?
fissionesque 3 weeks ago
Jason is awesome! I just met him at Sitka jazz fest were he was playing with Ed Littlefield and Christian Fabian again. Great shows
Kirchenschlager 1 month ago
I do agree about what JM is saying. It is true for the people that are trying to play "jazz" But what ive found, many of these artists that are playing this new style with odd time and chromatic solos do not refer to it as jazz, they just call it music, since it really has no true name yet. It just seems that from the choice of instrumentation, people cant classify it as anything else. They cant think of a new name so they just label it as jazz or "cutting edge" or whatever people call it.
musikofpiano 2 months ago
I met Jason in Juneau, AK once. He was playing with Ed Littlefield (based out of Seattle) and Christian Fabian (based out of NJ). He played some "Donna Lee" on vibes, it was pretty interesting.
ultimabass 3 months ago
woah! i mean, whoah! or is it "whoa!" .........a lot of anger, and while it contains an element of truth, i don't believe jason marsalis has heard much jazz outside of his small circle of friends.
avivagabriel 4 months ago
Comment removed
diggsduke 5 months ago in playlist Liked 3
Everyone is so crazy here. All thats happening is, musicians that have followed the lineage are upset about the name "jazz" being used to describe music coming out of universities. They are blaming the lack of jazz popularity to music that comes out of what is generally universities. I don't mind them being worried about that. the name could be different for university jazz to solve there problem. then people could understand its a different thing. But might it be too far to say it sucks?
whosOHW 5 months ago
"you know what i think sucks? any conversation about how much jazz sucks" - Vijay Iyer
How true is that!
davebeeboss 6 months ago
If Marsalis had any real historical perspective he'd know that his criticisms merely reiterate what Louis Armstrong said about the beboppers (i.e., they're playing "scientific music" for themselves, turning off the audiences, etc.). Check out "Bop Will Kill Business Unless It Kills Itself First -- Louis Armstrong," _Down Beat _April 7, 1945, pp. 2-3 (reprinted in Robert Walser's _Keeping Time_). Jason, you need to study your history, man!
culturesmatter 1 year ago
@culturesmatter its not the same thing unless you are talking about the mediocre 'bebopper' wannabees of that time. The difference is, now there are Universities all over the country (& world) artificially turning out higher numbers of these types of musicians than a natural economy would tolerate! For example, Kenny Garrett is a great musician.... however, aren't you tired of the lame alto players pretending they are hipper than Garrett while stealing his entire vibe? No depth, just perjury
joejohnson043 1 year ago
@culturesmatter yes that would explain louis' many gigs with dizzy gillespie
soursourapples 1 year ago
The article I cited is from 1945, which is when bop first emerged. By the time Diz and Louis began appearing together, in the late 1950s, bop had already been made "safe" (hence, both Diz and Louis were hired by the US State Department to present their musics globally). At that point free jazz became the new "noise" "ruining" the tradition (recall the claims that Ornette was a charlatan). Diz takes about this in his autobio. Point is: younger cats will always piss off the older cats.
culturesmatter 1 year ago
@culturesmatter cite all the books you want, the records speak for themselves. there are countless recordings from the 40s with pres, coleman hawkins and ben webster sitting in with bird and diz. earl hines could play exactly like lennie tristano.
the point is not older musicians not liking what the young musicians. it is university level musicians wanting to only learn technical aspects of the music while at the same time shutting their minds to the spirit of the music.
soursourapples 1 year ago
@soursourapples "Countless"?! Name me one recording that features Bird, Diz, and Pres playing together in the 1940s. To your other point: every generation features players who sound "technical" or "scientific" and others who sound "soulful" or "emotional." To many listeners today, Steve Coleman and Wynton Marsalis sound cold and technical, yet neither of those guys studied jazz in school. Meanwhile, Tony Malaby, Geri Allen, Steve Bernstein, and Ravi Coltrane all earned jazz degrees.
culturesmatter 1 year ago
@culturesmatter how about live at the philharmonic 1949, and charlie parker: jam sessions, and early modern for starters.
while you may have a point in another discussion, it is not valid in this one. the marsalis' point is not about their fellow peers, i should know as i have had conversations with branford and other people. they can do their own thing. the finger is being pointed squarely at the majority jazz faculties and a broad section of jazz students today. i am sure you will agree.
soursourapples 1 year ago
Unfortunately I - and others like me - have english as our second language, which means that we cannot follow the mans speech because of TERRIBLE annoying background noise.. Pity. Hope a new version could be made.
mifrankdk 1 year ago
I think its sad because when jazz musicians do come together in the public nobody will talk about this. It is easy to talk about Jason on the internet or disagree but respectfully disagree. I know the Marsalis family personally and I can tell you that they are all different so you can't just lump them into one generalized view on jazz music. The problem is that the universities don't teach the history and that my generation of musicians is making music for musicians and not people
tripp45 1 year ago
@tripp45 as far as I'm concerned, real musicians aren't concerned with "making music for the people". Their music reflects their journey, their experiences, their "moment". Whether or not it resonates with the common man shouldn't be a deciding factor on what makes music good. Many great composers/musicians were accused of this, only to be revered and worshipped years after theyre dead, when peoples' ears finally started catching up. Marsalis knows this, he's just trying to be cool
KingKarolus222 1 year ago
@KingKarolus222 no, Marsalis is right! The Universities are turning out myriads of terrible narcissistic musicians! They actually think they are hot s$%t and that they are better than the Legends of the music. They are not making music, they are masturbating with sound. Back in the day, the musicians had to make a living, that weeded out this bullcrap a bit; now the lameness is sheltered in a University until it is matured and released as a ripe pile of festering musical crap!
joejohnson043 1 year ago
He's basically describing the jam sessions at Fat Cat in NYC (on any given night).
I stopped going there because of the egomaniacal, narcisstic douchebags who perfectly fit jason's description.
zappacrappa2 1 year ago
Jason is right, current jazz education is often leaving out a large portion of the history of the music. Unfortunately, jazz education can't stop in the university - musicians have to learn to perform in public and please their audiences, and there are so few opportunities to do that now. Before universities taught jazz, it was learned by learning directly on the bandstand. Some of Jason's video was tongue in cheek - I think that jazz education programs bear the blame, not the students.
imjazzi2 1 year ago
Brother Jason speaks the truth y'all, you know he does, wit u al da way, go ahead Jason, peas bro.
scotttinkler 1 year ago
Jason swings but MAN he's captain stiff on camera. Plus...to each his own dude. Chill.
allenmez 1 year ago
this is great! keep it nasty!
kirknasty 1 year ago
@BrianMBrody please elaborate.
copedogg888 1 year ago
Jason explains his comments further in this article here. interesting read: offbeat.com/2010/07/01/the-definition-of-a-jazz-nerd/
williefugal 1 year ago
jason, yeah you right!!!! so you jazz nerds can play "cherokee" a million miles an hour, but try playing a pretty solo over "stardust..." it doesn't have to be fast to be challenging, it doesn't have to be in a weird time signature to be interesting. And here's the big thing: if people are *gasp* dancing to the music, does that mean you're selling out? I guarantee, when you play a song that people are dancing to and enjoying, NO ONE is believes for an instant that jazz is dead.
colinpmyers 1 year ago
Its a dead discussion. Jason Marsalis hears within his own limitations, as we all do, and hopefully all the musicians that are serious dedicate themselves at all time to sharpen and deepen their perception of sound and context, whatever style they are into. The question here is how right you think you are, and would your stubborn 'learned' conviction limit your possibility to grow and expand? Completely irrelevant, bebop or mixed meter, its all great when its good.
marcmommaas 1 year ago
Wow... a few generalizations maybe? He seems to be pretty sure of peoples intentions as well... dangerous (ignorant) territory bro!
undercarriagetv 1 year ago
Sadly, the Marsalis family's contribution to 'Jazz' has not done especially better to keep new generations of listeners interested have they. It's a nice argument about the state of university jazz products, but the source clearly does not have a better approach to an art form that is asphyxiating in it's own creative tyranny.
HornedTube 1 year ago
@HornedTube It's really all reflective of the Civil Rights effect. Hate whitey and hate whitey's music. It's closeted racism in the form of "his music is bullshit, it don't got the blues."
KingKarolus222 1 year ago
@KingKarolus222 I do not think that is it. No need to bring all that race politics into it. I am not a fan of the musical mentality he criticizes, but I am no more a fan of him or his espoused 'real jazz' either. This is just one extreme attacking another. Frankly, neither of these extremes seem to be tuned into the middle ground, where the music not suffocating in self conscious 'coolness' of 1957 nor cerebral masturbation exists.
HornedTube 1 year ago
If one followed Marsalis' view, whole genres of creative and wonderful music would be discredited. But this is not a 'black or white' thing, it is just an art/culture ego trip.
HornedTube 1 year ago
This is an important and timely debate. While his paranoia of jazz nerds is silly, the fact their music jazz repels rather than attracts non-musicians is relevant. The swing feel is more important than the repertoire as far as the survival of the art of melodic improvisation is concerned. As great as it is to appreciate the American Song Book, young people especially like new songs. Also when you think about it, the word "standard" has opposite meanings as an adjective or a noun.
miamilew61 1 year ago
how lame is this guy?????
whereitruns 1 year ago
@whereitruns I know man, the truth can seem a little lame sometimes...but it doesn't change the fact that its the truth.
copedogg888 1 year ago
This is sad that he is right and it is ruining Jazz. To me one of the most important parts of Jazz improve is two way communication with an audience. Too much of what passes for Jazz is not but simply self indulgence and it is ruining this great art form.
SweetHeatLatinJazz 1 year ago 2
@SweetHeatLatinJazz your mistake is the use of the word "jazz". the so-called "Jazz" greats (Ellington, Miles, Parker) hated the word because it put music into a box. Most people who make the kind of music that "traditionalists" hate on aren't calling their music jazz. My point: improvisation is what it is, it doesn't have to be anything else. You may choose to make your music "Audience-friendly", but that doesn't make your music more legit than the next guy.
KingKarolus222 1 year ago
@KingKarolus222 It is all about the quality of the communication. and yes using the word Jazz is like classifying something as "Music" it is an enormous subject. I still hate it when musicians do not include the audience in the conversation. All the "greats" did when they played. There are many forms of Jazz and they all have their place. We just need to take more responsibility for bringing new audiences to this music.
SweetHeatLatinJazz 1 year ago
God i feel vindicated. Exactly what i always thought about jazz musicians.
As a cracker i may say that from what i understand jazz music has been whitified, lost its swing for the most part and tried to compensate by becoming ultra brainy and technically busy.
tobilius 1 year ago
Pt. 1)Contrast this to Terence Blanchard's YouTube vid of him at the Monk Institute, talking to the current generation of students about this very subject , however Terence comes down on the other side, in support of their "new jazz language". I tend to side with Jason, for their motto seems to be "If you can't write a tune in 4/4, write it in 13/8 w bars of 5/4 interspersed.
talarant 1 year ago
talarant 1 year ago
Test
talarant 1 year ago
People who live in jazz nerdy houses shouldn't throw jazzy nerdy stones. What a nerdy tirade.
cgraupera 1 year ago
As odd as it may seem though, it's pretty comforting and reassuring. When musicians are using the same words about the most modern forms of that music that the one that were being thrown at say Charlie Parker, Thelonious Monk, and later at John Coltrane, Paul Bley, Eric Dolphy, Andrew Hill, Cecil Taylor (and the list goes on and on), it tells us we're living a great jazz era !
speciman70 1 year ago 7
@speciman70 the most interesting thing is his take on what it is that makes people like music. most people on the planet are into music that's made by musicians who don't play standards, who don't think about tradition. Most music that people enjoy is made by musicians who are into what's going on now. He is searching for an argument against something he doesn't like, which of course there are musicians in any context who make bad music, but his argument goes against him more than anything.
KingKarolus222 1 year ago
@speciman70 not really. beethoven was accepted in his own time.
soursourapples 1 year ago
Jason's tirade is the most reactionary speech I heard in a long time. Sad coming from a talented drummer who's done some great stuff (Marcus Robert's trio).
speciman70 1 year ago
Comment removed
speciman70 1 year ago
I've lost all respect for this guy.
KingKarolus222 1 year ago
@KingKarolus222 everything he speaks is the truth. there are plenty of musicians out there like the ones he describes. i've played with plenty of them.
copedogg888 1 year ago
@KingKarolus222 Care to clarify?
sejemandhaha 1 year ago
@sejemandhaha He represents a school of thought that believes that all music is "black" music and that "white" people "stole" the music and "over-intellectualized" it, making it invalid. they think that if the musician is not "rooted" in the blues, that his/her music lacks a fundamental root that is needed for the listener to enjoy. Basically, if it ain't Blues, it ain't music. Then he condescends on young guys who haven't completely mastered the "American Song Book"
KingKarolus222 1 year ago
@KingKarolus222 That's not what he said though.
sejemandhaha 1 year ago
@sejemandhaha 1:17 . . . 1:41 . . . 2:27 . . . 3:22 . . . that, and I've been around these guys a lot, i know what their argument is.
KingKarolus222 1 year ago
@sejemandhaha what he doesn't seem to realize is that the music that most people "enjoy", like pop or rock, isn't made by people who are "rooted in the tradition". It's people who like to play, and who are influenced by music of their time (which IS rooted in tradition)...
KingKarolus222 1 year ago
@KingKarolus222
led zeppelin elvis bob dylan
all influenced by the tradition
name a rock band who aren't influenced by the blues who are any way near led zeppelin
soursourapples 1 year ago
I am loving it!!!
Lampdawg 1 year ago
Thank you Jason for saying this, however some members JNI are even older. Keep up the great work Bro.
Jazacad 1 year ago
Jason is 100% right. What he isn't mentioning is that many of the musicians he probably regards as more legitimate players within the tradition, such as Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Freddie Hubbard, Lee Morgan, all played like this. Ever since the late forties, jazz musicians have been playing a lot of notes. They do it well because they're in touch with the roots of it all, but it's still far too busy for the untrained ear. It's ironic. He is what he criticizes.
jetzine00 1 year ago
@jetzine00 he sounds like sarah palin in this.
whereitruns 1 year ago
Yes, we need to recognize the people of the past, but we need to advance the music into the future. While he makes BROAD statements, I think he's talking about a much smaller sect of the jazz world than just anybody who plays in odd meters, or takes their solos out, but at the same time, its not good to generalize and thats all he's doing.
theNAFACT0R 1 year ago 4
I see where Jason's coming from, but I don't see the point of trying to call it jazz as a specific style anymore. Use it as an umbrella term to describe the use of improvisation, groove/rhythm, and deeper harmonies, but you will hardly ever see musicians do a gig of just walking four, in the pocket solos, and heads in and out. It's all music by this point.
djkcel 1 year ago
Preach!
MzMiot 1 year ago
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MzMiot 1 year ago
he's right.
claudomy 1 year ago
this is killin
mintysneezer 1 year ago
asshole
iamdethhedd 1 year ago
@iamdethhedd please elaborate. it seems your only reason for this type of comment would mean that he has offended you, which would mean that you fall into the very category of musicians he is describing.
copedogg888 1 year ago
i agree 10000000%.
theres nothing i love more than playing a tune in whatever time imaginable
BUT
when i play for an audience who wants to listen to music... i will never play a tune like giant steps in 86.75/4 time signature.
earthchild100 1 year ago
Everything that he complains about could be argued about the "traditional" jazz approach(when played badly especially): "Boring, audience doesn't get it, thousand notes a minute." Another Marsalis proving himself and family (with exception to Ellis), as being totally full of it and themselves. Get rid of your ego, and play some music man!
1smileymn 1 year ago
@1smileymn but aside from the times you might hear "traditional jazz" played badly, it is still very important for every musician to have knowledge of, or at the very least, to not openly despise. It can be just as entertaining of an experience as modern jazz. Plus, have you heard the Marsalis family play "traditionally"? Do they bore you? They're all killin musicians.
copedogg888 1 year ago
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soursourapples 1 year ago
Nothing like the unconsidered rant of a self-important young fogey to start off a day.
Get over yourself, Jason, the rest of us have already.
adamr63 1 year ago
@adamr63 wtf are you talking about? How is this argument even deniable? Its so true that its disgusting. Jason is just making the claim that no one else will.
copedogg888 1 year ago
@copedogg888 You'd be better served by exploring why this is such an emotive topic for yourself than to attack everyone with a different opinion. No one else makes this claim? It's as old as 'jazz' is and is only slightly less interesting as debating what jazz itself is.
adamr63 1 year ago
@adamr63 I'm just interested in why you have the opinion you have about Jason bringing up this topic, when its simply truth.
copedogg888 1 year ago
his special mind has a bad attitude same old marsalis holier that though bullshit
nealf9348 1 year ago
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copedogg888 1 year ago
I think he should say sorry for this video, or maybe he need more atention from the audience while he play, cause well..as you see guys..this jason marsalis really need much atention for his music...
doel4484 1 year ago
@doel4484 this has nothing to do with him personally. don't be ignorant.
copedogg888 1 year ago
My advice, Jason? Play more, talk less.
The first rule of Jazz club...
JMGilberto 1 year ago
Ironic for him to criticize about music being boring or uninteresting. As a drummer he brings no fire whatsoever. He's a technically sound drummer but has no presence.
gsviews 1 year ago
What a narrow-minded jackass!
heterodoxic 1 year ago
When they were playing the standard in the swing area you weren't born, retard,
once you live with your time maybe you'll understand what music is about.
No wonder why I never enjoyed your playing just a bad copy of the past.
nicolasletmanb 1 year ago
shut your mouth!!!! who do you think you are?????
doel4484 1 year ago
so, please just listen to swing , not the other music, thats he want to say???????
doel4484 1 year ago
so audiences can't enjoy music that's not swing and/or standards, or music that's not in 4/4 time? how about "the ocean" by led zeppelin? or "tom sawyer" by rush? or "take five" or "blue rondo a la turk"? "money" by pink floyd? or balkan or south asian music?
mrpeterobbins 1 year ago
This is why I always call "Happy Birthday to You" on every gig, right after we play "Billie Jean" and the theme song from Titantic. Good thing none of our jazz audiences go to college and learn to become nerds.
eeffoc2009 1 year ago
@eeffoc2009
Funniest comment on youtube ever.
Mr. Marsalis, you're fired!
studionyc 7 months ago
right on!
Windin88 1 year ago
BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!
thetornado 1 year ago
5/4 always has been and always will be the best time signature in jazz
soursourapples 1 year ago