Err the only thing lost in dubs (most of time) is some context, as unlike the old samurai movies voiced over with the same exact words (leading to jaws moving innapropriately to the words "exiting" them), voice actors now have to speak with the same movements, while attempting to keep the majority of the context, frankly saying all Dubs suck is the same as saying "All dub actors suck". Which is a load of bullsh**, lets see you attempt to translate something without losing the context :/
@kosuricluka, I'm fairly sure "suck" is an opinion. Therefore, it is both impossible to state that it is a fact that dubs in general suck and also impossible to come up with actual statistics. What are the benefits? And say, wouldn't subs be mutilating by your definition? That would be Americanizing (not all dub companies are situated in America FYI) since it's not keeping true to the original Japanese script. Don't be a hypocrite.
@TheYuriHitoehi There are good dubs out there, even though, as you are correct, and an overwhelming majority aren't as good as the original Japanese. But I can point to the English Dubs of Code Geass, Love Hina and Full Metal Panic! as examples of excellent dubs.
@stevo20k : No... just no... dubs are a crime against anime. The voices are mismatched, the phrases lose their original sense just to fit the lips of the characters and the humour, Japanese humour is replaced by some lame US jokes. You sacrifice so much and gain so little... T_T
@kosoricluka Dude. Dubs are not a crime against anime. There are good ones out there as there are bad ones. So by your logic, imported games should no have english voice overs either. HMMMMMMM?
@crazyjavi87 : EXACTLY ! All Japanese games should just stick with the original voices and have subs. That's the option I use if there is one. American people need to stop Americanising media. Just because its not in English or that the humour isn't western humour doesn't mean you should mutilate it.
If we look at it purely statistically 99% of dubs suck, fan made or professional.
Also some casual sub reading wont hurt, it will only benefit you... >_>
@kosoricluka I just have to say that this is the sort of crap that only comes from an ignorant weaboo. Dubbing exists in all forms of media, in spite of you thinking it only applies to "americans" - even more English language films end up dubbed (often poorly) into Spanish, Japanese, etc. So, sorry to burst your bubble, but anime is a subgenre of film and television, you should be thankful that so much attention is being paid to your media of choice at all.
Alternatively, 9LBW killed Berserker 8 times and the final gut shot took out 2 lives at once. Or Berserker lost an extra life due to exsangination or heinous trauma. Or Berserker had all 10 remaining lives taken by 9LBW but his high-level Battle Continuation allowed him one last attack before dissipating.
There's a lot of possibilities to explain it. Although the last makes Berserker more GAR by effectively giving him a temporary 13th life via willpower alone.
Can't we all just agree he died? Shirou, Ilya, Sakura, and Saber all acknowledge that. Does it matter how many times it happened? Perhaps Twelve Labors got canceled when he became Dark Berserker. After all, Saber didn't have Avalon (nor did Shirou for that matter).
@Blaze1616 In Heaven's feel, archer shot a broken phantasm at berserker once, then saber also killed him once, then he became dark berserker (10 lives) shirou's NINE lives blade works killed it 9 times then he thrust the rock sword at it one more time
@6loyalofchongfu07 The argument is that Nine Lives Bladeworks only struck Berserker Eight times simultaneously (the whole part where Shirou is talking about hitting Berserker in eight points), and the final gutshot by Shirou was the Ninth kill.
@Blaze1616 Yeah, but it's a frequent debate over little details like that help people understand more about the story. Like how you mention that Saber/Shirou did not have Avalon, and that's explained because Shirou -did- have Avalon, it just didn't do anything because before either of them realized it, the link between Saber and Shirou had been cut. And if Twelve Labors had been canceled, Berserker would have died earlier and never came back.
Sabre Alter confirms that Shirou defeated Berserker.
Berserker was killed twice before fighting Shirou. Then Shirou used NLBW and killed him 8 times. That's 10 deaths. Then, Shirou stabs him with the final thrust and he dies. That's 11 deaths, unless the final thrust killed him more than once.
If Shirou creat swords out of UBW, that means he purely projects swords, that's why it will overload his circuit and he will kill him self, When he uses UBW, he overwhelms the Reality by his soul with mana, that means he use only one magic, and his soul is a WORLD WITH INFINITE SWORDS, so that he just need mana to maintain his Reality Marble, not mana and circuit to create swords. That's why he use UBW
@2821421 it depends on how shirou can handle this and what is the rank of the weapon he is projecting, and shirou is especially good here in the UBW route since he got a lot of training and fighting experience. UBW is a forbidden magic that alters the real world and creates a new world from the user's mind it is related to caster's territory creation in some way, in UBW swords projects w/ lightning speed exceeding even gil's GOB and cost extremely low mana but shields are twice the cost.
@dharmdevil UBW already has infinite sword in it, if Shirou wants to fire sword then UBW Itself is enough since It's a world with infinite sword, all Shirou need to do is providing mana, UBW also helps Shirou accelerating his projecting swords if he need to ( in UBW, Shirou did project swords to oppose Gilgamesh's swords). Of course there is no shield in UBW so Projecting a shield cost much mana
@2821421 obviously UBW is consists of "of unlimited blades" but it doesn't mean it doesn't have a shield. it's all acdg. to the VN, UBW is the "real talent" of shirou as a mage, it's not actually projection but is is creation of RM, projection is just a by product. He named that world UBW b/c it has infinite "blades" but from his fight from gil and riderxDsaber fights, rho aious came from the UBW(world) and try reading the game's UBW's description, it says there that all ---
@2821421 --- weapons that are in shirou's mind are projected in a glance though shields cost twice mana than swords. the truth there is that the projection of weapons' mana cost that was told in the description was actually the mana cost that shirou uses to maintain the world, in short maintaining the swords there is the same as maintaining the whole world, so if shirou slacks off his imagination, the swords will slowly dissappear and so as the world, also shirou need reprojection.
@dharmdevil What u say is not wrong, that means creating UBW and a sword and maintaining it have the same method, but What I said is UBW is a world with sword, if Shirou wants to fire sword (example: spamming sword with Gilgamesh), he won't need mana (that's the use of UBW), when he creates swords in UBW, he needs less mana. And talking about shield, I think Shirou's attribute is sword, not shield, so he needs much more mana to project one, even if the shield itself is in UBW
@2821421 of course it wont need mana, even outside UBW letting the swords float and firing them(called sword bullet by shirou) dont cause mana but outside ubw, maintaining their existence cost much mana. dude in UBW he don't create swords, he is in the world full of swords after all, remember shirou reels of swords from the ground and he don't project it, he levitates those swords from the ground and not projecting it. only reprojection of destroyed weapon cost him mana inside UBW.
@dharmdevil That's what I wanted to say, dude. I think u misunderstand my words a bit. Read it again clearly if u want to "UBW already has infinite sword in it, if Shirou wants to fire sword then UBW Itself is enough since It's a world with infinite sword, all Shirou need to do is providing mana"
@henryhenriquez actually try not to be quite literal, he may project gaebolg and rho aius but most of them are cousins of swords such as daggers and shortswords. in my previous statement about the boundary is again try not to be literal. reread it my statements again cause typing is tedious. btw if shirou has weapons as his attribute, wonder why he dont project guns and RPG's or tommahawks and BTW UBW is actually a replica of GIL's GOB.
@henryhenriquez its impossible to project EA cause Ea isnt written on the history, it got no past here on earth. maybe he meant that obtaining his NP means defeating him in a duel w/ the same NP. To add more GOB might have a lot of weapons but once its broken it won't return while UBW just reanimates its broken swords and fly away again, so if they ended up spamming the whole day, GIL might run out of weapons on his cache,
@henryhenriquez haha but it's also not plausible for him to use it repeatedly coz his mana circuits (where the mana passes) will burn out even if how much mana he got.
@henryhenriquez but i suggest you read those "hidden" lines in between not on those wikia's but on the VN itself. the statement "w/o penalty" declares archer can't be penalized by his unlimited creation of swords b/c accdg. to the laws of sorcery to create those weapons he needs to have a lot in return but since shiro is special he was the only one who could do it. But yes he can keep up UBW for long while w/ mana but it would exhaust him a lot of energy
@henryhenriquez and burn his circuits (if not trained enough) and even how much mana he got and how power his reality marble became, a blow from an ultimate NP(such as EA, and xclbr) would blow the reality marble out, take note that shirou's UBW disappeared w/ only a flash of light from xlcbr, so actually UBW does not need a fountain of mana but just enough, it is very lethal on its own and could win any batlle if used properly.
@dharmdevil It was my impression that the Reality Marble faded because of the huge release of energy from the destruction of the Holy Grail, and not Excalibur. Also, I disagree that UBW could win any battle. Really, the only battle it could win would be one against Gilgamesh; the Gates of Babylon and Unlimited Blade Works are perfectly matched. Note, for example, that Archer lost against Berserker, and was not holding back in the slightest.
@divcotta the blinding light that eliminated the UBW was xclbur's magical energy, not the grail's, this scenario also happened in fate zero but it was Ea which eliminated rider's reality marble.every servant has a weakness and UBW has all those weakness since it is a copy of GoB w/c contained all the swords that's strong against every servant(e.g.Kaladbolg is strong against gae bolg), and you forget about nine-lives blade works? surely berserker will loose against archer if he used that.
@dharmdevil Remember, though, that when Shirou used Nine Lives Blade Works against Dark Berserker, he was using it against an opponent who a) was down a rank due to serving a different master, b) had apparently had all his skin ripped off, and c) was blind. Servants are always at their strongest when serving their true master; look at Shinji's Rider vs. Sakura's Rider, or look at Saber vs. Dark Saber.
@divcotta even though he was down a rank their that could've killed him 9 times leaving 2 more lives archer has to deal w/. well that is shirou of course, miles weaker than archer. it's not that servants grow weaker when they serve different master, look at lancer serving for kirei(he was bazzet's servant)it's all about whether the servants was twisted against their will, if youre saying dark saber vs saber think again, dark saber has become the strongest servant their
@divcotta to add more how about you compare shirou's saber vs rin's saber? shirou was the real master but saber was a lot stronger when she was under rin. rider was weaker when she was in shinji's b/c shinji never carried a legitimate command spell thus sakura is still the master, and dark saber has a rank down in her abilities b/c she was constantly restraining herself in doing bad things but still her mana is the strongest in all servants.
@dharmdevil When Saber formed a contract with Rin, Rin became her legitimate master. I agree with you about the whole "being twisted against their will" thing; Rider was able to fight effectively vs. Dark Sakura because her will was to serve NORMAL Sakura. And of course Dark Saber had a lot of mana... she had a direct connection to the freakin' Holy Grail. Even with that advantage, in Bad End 38, she almost outright loses to Shirou fighting alone.
@divcotta sas i've said saber is constantly restraining herself there, you could say that she did that in purpose, if she wasn't shirou is dead by excalibur, and of course shirou's attack was powerful b/c it was archer;s kanshou and bakuya's overedge attack. who Told you that sakura fought rider? rider said that he would only help shirou b/c he is her ally and her duty is to fight dark saber, she never wanted to attack sakura, she really didnt care much wther sakra is normal or not actually.
@DevilTakeMe For you my friend I suggest you reread or rather try to go for bad ending 38 for you to see that dark saber did die from shirou's overedge attack (crane wing but he did not manage to bring out KB's ulti form he just used 2 pairs, mst be 3) but shirou also died as well just after that. Dark saber lost some of her abilities my friend, that includes riding(from rank B+ to 0) her insticts from A to D but most of her abilities increased that include Her magical mana burst and mana pool.
@dharmdevil I'm afraid you're very mistaken, I'll quote HF's Bad End 38 for you.
"She'll heal within ten minutes if she's left alone.
But - conversely, she cannot do anything for ten minutes and has to accept any finishing blows."
She looks to Shirou for that coup de grace, but it never comes. Shirou's mind has been destroyed, and Saber sighs as she notes that she's "won," and then comments on whether Rin can free Sakura within the next seven minutes before Saber heals.
@dharmdevil Saber Alter (or Dark Saber as you call her) has some changes in her ability due to alignment change, and it's noted specifically where that happens. Everything else, where she gets her mana pool increased, strength, etc. comes from her mana source.
@dharmdevil Wait, Saber Alter is not down-ranked in -any- of her abilities. And is in fact, far stronger with an unlimited mana pool. You can check yourself in the Visual Novel Extras that Saber Alter is in no way weaker.
@DevilTakeMe Saber's Instinct power drops a rank as Saber Alter. Given that this is one of her major strengths it's probably why Shirou can beat her with Crane Wing.
@GnashGralar Well, this is mostly in response to dharmdevil's comment that Servants who switch masters drop in power, and I basically just have to show that all that is bunk.
Rider was weak under Shinji, because Shinji was a terrible mage. Saber under Shirou was weaker than she should have been for the same reason.
Berserker was weak enough for Shirou to beat because Berserker ripped off his primary defense, his skin, not because 'he switched masters.'
@DevilTakeMe i was not the one who commented that having different master weakens a servant, i was actually contradicting it. to start first il go back to bad end 38 yeah i must rephrase my previous statement, I said she "did" die, yes but b/c of her mana pool she lived but still alive, but my fault I wasn't literal. Its not that shinji was a weak master, in fact rider should have enough mana since she got it from people's life energy --
@dharmdevil Rider had not completed the mana transfer ritual when Shirou and Rin interrupted them. She had the school under the spell, but she was interrupted by Shirou and Rin. She may have gotten a little energy, but not a great deal. And remember, the whole reason Rider was performing the spell in the first place was because Shinji couldn't give her the mana she needed, so she had to look for alternative sources. The same applies to Caster and Gilgamesh.
@DevilTakeMe she got enough mana for sure considering the number of people in that school and most of them were healed by kirei. and take note that after that incident sakura has to replenish the fake command spell of shinji thus in the brief moment where rider was sakura's she got some mana from sakura, remember that rider used bellerephon to escape then she used it again in her fight w/ saber, she wouldn't be able to do that if she didnt receive mana.
@dharmdevil Whoa who whoa, where did it say that Sakura had to replenish the command spell after the school incident? You're just making things up now!
I said Rider got some mana. She certainly would have gotten more if she completed the spell.
@DevilTakeMe OK lst thing, i recommed you guys to read the novel 5 times all over again, youre not getting the "missing words" w/in the lines of the novel.youre just looking at the top of an iceberg. remember this, each and every routes in the novel are connected to each other and those events in HF are the "fillers" in each empty holes of the other routes, mainly the events happening to sakura and rider etc, pls understand this, to reitriate this one is tiring.
@dharmdevil Yeah, you keep telling people to read the novel, and yet, you seem like you're completely incapable of keeping the whole continuity together. You don't provide actual evidence when you describe your theories, and you keep saying 'read the visual novel' and yet you can't cite where you read these things. Do -that- instead of just saying 'read the visual novel'.
@DevilTakeMe do you really want me to take around 6 - 10 comment box just sighting every lines?? damn dude its just like bible, you cant see the real message if you just read it line by line, every line has 'partner' and together they show the 'secret' message encoded, get the point? very well if you need specifics il give you tons of it.
@DevilTakeMe -- it is because on the first place shinji never had a legitimate comand spell and sakura was still the master of rider, plus rider never wanted to obey shinji so we could say that she also restrains the gravity of shinji's commands. Even though we say that berserker got no skin, well he got infinite mana pool in xchange.and he was completely covered in black mud w/c is better dfnce plus he has his noble phantasm back,
@dharmdevil I think you're stretching into "theory" territory here with the part about legitimate contracts. The only clear-cut evidence that Sakura ever turns over command is during Heaven's Feel, and that's when Zouken forces her to use her second command spell to give Rider back to Shinji.
As for Beserker, where does it say that the black mud turned into armor or skin? Now you're really just making things up. Nowhere does it say that the black mud 'reforms' his skin when he resurrects.
@DevilTakeMe ah just saw this one comment of yours, i always reread the novel once a month and I'm sure that I'm accurate at this one, try to read the part where dark berserker was going after shirou and illya and you should be able to see it when shirou describes the apperance of berserker, that his eyes is blind and only emits hostility bla bla bla, unless youre reading an illegitimate transtalation.
@dharmdevil Really, prove where the Black mud that Beserker was his skin. Quote it. Beserker was blind, and his body was missing his skin, the Visual Novels' CG and the text itself notes this.
@DevilTakeMe was i that unclear? sorry this is youtube not forums so everything i typed are compressed. 1st after the school incident shinji lost his fake command spell and sakura must replenish it, at the brief moment where rider was back to sakura, the flow of mana returns to her 'true' master and returns to normal and rider replenished some of her mana by then before she back to shinji, if it wasnt replenished rider should've disappeared from her usage of belerephon.
@dharmdevil You're going around the whole point. Where did it say that Sakura had to replenish it? Nowhere does it say that Shinji lost his command spell during the School incidents in either Fate or UBW. The only times Shinji lost his Command Spell was when Zouken took it away in Heaven's Feel. Now, stop trying to argue around the point and quote where you read this, because it's not in the Visual Novel.
@dharmdevil I'll do it for you. Chapter title "Vs. Rider (I) - Crazy Train" - show me where Shinji uses or loses his Command Spell. Shirou threatens to take it away, but Rider escapes with Shinji before anything happens. Where did Shinji lose a command spell? Rider surprised him and escaped with Shinji on her own. At what point did Shinji lose the command spell, hrm? There's no place here for Sakura to have needed to replenish a used command spell.
@DevilTakeMe ok BTW i never saw or should i say i can't recall wether there is a statement that berserker got his skin ripped of or something, give me these specific of yours and tell me your translator. For wether his NP was back, it was a mere common sense, take note that the 8 targets of shirou are 8 vital points that even servant would die from if fatally wounded from that the novel is suggesting that shirou killed him 9 times
@dharmdevil Mirror Moon translation, unless you're using something else.
Heaven's Feel - Day 10 - Power Game - "He tore off his flesh along with the shadow"
Fate - Day 11 - Intermission: Archer and Berserker - "Archer delivered a fatal blow six times. It does not even need to be said that each of the attacks was by a different method. Even the greatest attacks cannot be effective on Berserker twice."
If Berserker still had his skin, Shirou's tenth hit should not have killed him.
To further clarify, Berserker's Noble Phantasm makes him immune to all but the strongest of attacks, and even then, Berserker becomes immune to it if if used again.
The logic is very simple - if Berserker's noble phantasm were still in full effect, he would be immune for two reasons: he'd already suffered an attack by the weapon, and the weapon was not as powerful as Shirou/Archer's projections are downranked (see the VN's extras on Archer). That's common sense.
@DevilTakeMe take note that shirou clarified that his very own weapon would be able to scratch him, ok in this part there is a big msunderstanding of NLBW, first what shirou projected is the axe sword not NLBW, NLBW was a technique ported by hercules from his original bow and arrow technique to his axe sword and since projecting comes w/ the techniques,
@dharmdevil He never says the axe-sword would "scratch Berserker." You'd have to quote that. What Shirou does say is that the only thing he could think of to counter Berserker's axe-sword was Berserker's axe-sword, and that was in a moment where he had to create something to block Berserker's attacks in "Battle in the Forest; Second Half."
"What can beat him?
What can match him?
-It's Clear
It can be nothing less than the sword he carries!"
@DevilTakeMe yeah but at that time he didnt released archer's arm yet and hes using his immature projection magic and expect a very low quality of projection, "What can beat him?" from that if it wont even scratch berserker he should've have even said beat b/c if it cannot scratch him from it he cannot be beaten in the first place, scratch is an understatement already.
@dharmdevil Right, but note that's quite a bit before NLBW and he doesn't say anything like that after. But the point now is that the axe-sword used for NLBW is the same one used in the hit that comes after, and if Berserker still has his noble phantasm, he should be immune to it afterwards.
@DevilTakeMe i could've agreed w/ you when you said it was because illya distracted berserker that's why he was able to land it, NLBW is composed of 9 strikes right? the ninth strike is the strike at the heart, the 8 other strikes was striked w/ godlike speed first in a circular manner leaving 1 last fatal spot that is the heart, i think that last strike was meant for the immortal head of the hydra.
@dharmdevil That just adds a math problem to the equation. It states right before NLBW that Berserker has been killed twice. "He's blind and insane, and his life has been ended twice over."
So, twice before NLBW, then eight slashes from that simultaneous attack, and then the last shot to the chest. That would equal eleven deaths. Berserker would have one more life coming.
@DevilTakeMe hes been killed twice b/c of excalibur and being swallowed on the mud resurrected as a zombie, that line can be misleading, it is because excalibur only killed berserker once, despite the fact that we see him lying there and swallowed by the mud, he still is regenerating in there but immobilized by his wound and the mud, so he lost 2 of his lives there and he got only 9 lives back when he was dark berserker so yeah lucky shirou, if it wasnt then hes dead.
@dharmdevil This also opens up a second argument for why Berserker no longer has his noble phantasm - he's lost his bonus lives as well. You can use your own argument against yourself: unlike Caliburn, the eight strikes are never said to kill Berserker and, as you say, merely opened up a weak point in Berserker's defense, cutting off an eighth of Berserker's body, and the ninth attack kills him off. This will explain the math, as well.
@DevilTakeMe to this comment what is the point of shirou of saying all those obvious fatal spots then? there are a lot of misleading lines there actually and they are purely metamorphical statements meant to describe the body of berserker not for the math. that is why shirou was shocked to see berserker still striked when he landed the 8 shots b/c it should have killed him 8 times and must be immobilized and regenerating but b/c of his bravery skill he still was able to attack
@dharmdevil For the same reason that other characters in Fate Stay Night take obviously fatal hits and live through them - Shirou himself, Archer, Saber, and Beserker, specifically. It's just to show how close to death they get. It's even one of Berserker's abilities: Battle Continuation - Grade A that he can continue battle until he receives a clearly fatal blow. All those strike points are fatal, but not all of them cause an immediate death like a shot to the heart.
@dharmdevil I mean, Nasu goes through the trouble of describing how powerful Berserker is - he takes obviously lethal hits and then keeps going. No greater example is the entire fight between Gilgamesh and Berserker in Unlimited Blade Works. He is clearly beyond death at the end, and he still manages to crawl over and comfort Ilya.
@DevilTakeMe another example of this is his fight w/ gilgamesh, gilgamesh killed him 11 times already and he still moved and broke enkidu when gil was about to get the heart of ilya, it b/c of his ability bravery he was able to keep up even he has lost a lot of his body parts etc., and remember that dark berserker was obviously more powerful than ordinary berserker just like dark saber , its just that he lost his sight.
@dharmdevil Count again. Gilgamesh killed him twelve times. While Berserker is in the chains (He had died 10 times before), Gil impales him with twenty noble phantasms and kills him for the eleventh time (or twentieth time as it says). Berserker breaks free and then gets impaled for the twelfth death.
@lol1143 It's really hard to say if Berserker died or not. We can assume he did, but there's no actual evidence that he died. It was an A-rank NP that hit him, but there's no evidence that it actually did damage. It's never really mentioned after that scene.
@DevilTakeMe i dont know why my comment was not posted but anyway il repost it, it is about berserker's skin topic, it was said that when berserker tore off his chest but it was not specific whether berserker tore off his entire chest or just a section, but nevertheless it is obviously "chest" only not legs or arms' skin and remember that only 2 strikes from NLBW is at the chest , diaprhagm and rib, windpipe is throat so it is in the neck. the rest is still covered in skin
@dharmdevil What good would have just ripping off the skin from his chest do? He was knee deep in the Mud, and his whole body was wrapped up in the shadow. He was trying to free himself, because he was completely immobilized.
"The mud below him isn't the only thing binding him, as the black shadow is coiled all about his body.
He cannot move forward.
Berserker cannot even take a step forward with his body bound by black shadow."
@dharmdevil "He tore off his flesh along with the shadow, going deep enough to expose his bones.
The giant bursts into motion."
Just because he pulled at his chest doesn't mean the skin didn't come off the rest of his body. Have you ever skinned something? The skin doesn't just come off at one point, you can pull the skin off of a creature's limbs by pulling from the body.
@DevilTakeMe therefore even though the axe sword was certainly downranked it is the techniques's(NLBW) strength that gave its power. if youre saying that berserker gets immune from an attack of the same weapon in the 2nd time, think again, how can you explain the caliburn incident then? certainly brsker got hit and his arm was cut and yet he dies 7 times in a stab? and caliburn is a weaker attacker compared to NLBW and it is projected by the newbie shiro? explain that.
@dharmdevil For starters, the sword that cut Berserker's arm isn't the same one that's used in the 7-kill slash (the first one breaks when it makes the cut). Shirou has to project Caliburn a second time, and he notes how much effort it takes for him to get it 'right' the second time.
And then, of course, Shirou is just the maker, he wasn't the user when Caliburn is used to kill Berserker seven times. It's Saber who makes the cut, and is the one providing energy to the sword.
@dharmdevil Day 15 - Battle in the forest: First half overload. Tell me where in this description does it say that Beserker's Noble Phantasm, God Hand, is back? It's just not there. Even in the following chapters, though Nine Bullet Revolver was made specifically to hit Beserker nine times, had Beserker had his protection, he would have been immune to the tenth hit - the singular hit to his chest. But that didn't happen, Beserker was killed.
Battle in the forest: First half - overload (mirrormoon translation)
shirou:Kotomine said his eyes can't see. He's right, but he's not accurate.
The servant has no eyes, nose, or mouth. His glowing red eyes are there to emit hostility. His body is covered by the BLACK MUD, and the wound he received from saber was left alone. That's completely different. Englulf in MUD, .....
@DevilTakeMe to add more to the berserker topic il qoute some of shirou;s heroic lines.
Shirou: The running giant won't stop in one blow, and normal projection is useless against him. Tracing won't do the trick. I cnt beat that giant unless I use projection past my limits. Therefore - "trigger off". Nine in my head.I use all 27 magic circuits in my head and smash it in one blow.
Understand those lines and the next ones and you should get where did the fuck i got the idea of his NP back
@DevilTakeMe OK didn't i told you to read underwater? you will never know the size of an iceberg if you wont dive ok? get it? FSN is not your ordinary night stories like peter pan or cinderella, Nasu is known for his 'mysteries' and peculiar way of storytelling, like for example the kara no kyoukai, he used scrambled timeline spcialy in no. 5. for the sakura thingy give me an hour i need to eat first and list all those specifics your craving for.
@dharmdevil You cannot form an accurate depiction of a story without securing the foundation - the little pieces that make up the larger picture. I don't care what Nasu is 'known for', I'm asking what you can prove. Otherwise, it's a great deal of guessing without evidence. Sakura is only shown to use her command spell twice - the last ordering Rider to help Shirou, and the time before that was transferring Rider's contract to Shinji. So, connect the dots.
@DevilTakeMe ok now i got what you meant when you based it on that hydra thing, im trying my best to understand your viewpoint and not being skeptic.I would say it is MY MISTAKE to say that it was developed by archer, what i meant in developed was copied by that time, NLBW was based on hercules's lost noble phantasm since he became berserker, it was said that it was the technique he used to kill the hydra although it was 7 it was made 9 on the wikis so that it would be fitting for its name
@DevilTakeMe remember shirou noted that berserker's weapon would definitely harm him , you could say that the nine-bullet revolver(nine lives blade works) was a technique (not a NP) developed by archer in situations wherein he fights someone like berserker.
@dharmdevil Nine Bullet Revolver, aka "Nine Lives Blade Works," is just like Rho Aias that Archer uses in UBW - it's not an actual Noble Phantasm, but rather a conceptual weapon based on something that Shirou has seen or read about.
It's irony that it's used on Beserker. One of Hercules' Twelve Labors was killing the Hydra - Hercules had to kill all nine of the Hydra's heads at the same time with a bow and arrow - the myth basis for Nine Lives, Beserker's true Noble Phantasm.
@DevilTakeMe rho aias is not a conceptual weapon, it is an actual noble phantasm w/c originally looks like a huge bronze shield w/ 7 layers of ox hide used by Ajax(Illiad), its activation looks like a red flower w/ 7 petals. archer probbly recrded this from one of his enemy on future.
for correction that hydra has 7 heads not 9 and has no conction on NLB at all. as i've said NLB is a tchnique usng brserkr's axe sword to strike 8 different vital points simultaneously and a final stab at the heart
@dharmdevil Sorry, guy, but the Visual novel disagrees with you. And we're not going on historical accuracy, afterall (prove that King Arthur did or did not exist, and whether she was a female or not), we're going strictly by Fate/Stay Night's internal mythology and appropriate thematic conclusions.
So, on this point, you're just incorrect in assuming one telling of a myth is the rule.
@DevilTakeMe So your saying that your made up greek mytholgy came from the Nasu's edited myth? May nasu forgive you sir, I may not remember where i read about this since it has been 2 years since then , It was told that the novel was accurately based from myths except from the gender of arthur, since she has to be a female to complete the circle of heroines since it is an eroge game after all, i think it is in animenetworkdotcom or dotnet? i forgot. BTW then your myth is the rule then XD
@DevilTakeMe to add more you are actually incorrect for saying that the slaying of the hydra was included to hercules's 12 labors since his nephew helped him kill it. They used fire so that the head will not grow back not bows and arrows and used a giant rock on the immortal head of the hydra. It is the failed 2nd labor. And b/c of that his labour became 12 instead of 10. this is greek mythology.
@dharmdevil "HYDRA LERNAIA was a gigantic, nine-headed water-serpent, which haunted the swamps of Lerna. Herakles was sent to destroy her as one of his twelve labours, but for each of her heads that he decapitated, two more sprang forth."
I mean, you can argue the point of whether the Hydra was one of Hercules' twelve labors, but the point still stands. Hercules weapon of choice was "Nine Lives" or "Shooting Hundred Beasts." And a weapon based on that was used against him.
@DevilTakeMe i cant see it in any place that the hydra was 9 headed, try searching thorugh wikipedia and some greek mtyh books, it was always 7 headed. and its not hydra lernaia its LERNAEAN HYDRA - 'was an ancient nameless serpent-like chthonic water beast (as its name evinces) that possessed seven heads' -wikipedia. I dont know what youre talking about dude XD.
@DevilTakeMe every weapon of archer/shirou has been seen, he have no conceptual weapon at all, even the gem sword has been seen by him. Remember that he is a counter-guardian of the future and he has been summoned in different ages before he finally became a servant, all of his arsenal were seen on those summoning, hrunting(beowulf), caladbolg(Fergus mc roich), rho aias(Ajax) Kanshou and Bakuya(Gan jiang and Mo Ye) etc....
@dharmdevil You really are just making things up. It's absolutely clear you don't read the specifics about the Visual novel. Zelretch's Gem sword was created through a conversation with Rin regarding her knife - which was similar to the Gem Sword - it's not because he had seen it. Rin simply described it to Shirou and he projected it.
@DevilTakeMe OMG it hurts me someone saying that im just making things up. I think you forgot the novel dude. Read its not that rin jsut asked him to project the gem sword, IT WAS SEEN BY HIM THROUGH ILLYA's MEMORY, remember? Did you forgot about the 7 concepts of projection? b/c of that a conceptual weapon would never be born. ROFL about the "gem sword was created through conversation" .......
@DevilTakeMe woah i just saw this "making things up!" statement, LOL, dude i never made up things w/o any basis at all, non sense, and besides try not to make up things from the greek mythology, its a greater sin after all, XD
@dharmdevil Sorry, but you are making stuff up at this point, because you're drawing conclusions that are simply not there. Point out specifically where Shinji's use of the command spell requires Sakura to restore it? Because it's not there. Just reread Heaven's Feel again, where Zouken forces Sakura to use her Command Spell to return control of Rider to Shinji.
@henryhenriquez BTW archer's strength w/ a very high mana does not lie on his UBW but rather on his broken phantasm such as kaladbolg, broken phantasm's power rely on how much mana the user has given it
Didn't the battle work by Shirou firing his swords in Unlimited Blade Works while battling Gil head on? Gil didn't think straight an was firing 3rd rate Noble Phantasms, so Shirou needed to kill him while he was unnerved before he brought out his first class weapons? Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.
anwser me this, where does Gil's sword go after shirou atak him??? exatcly they simply dont tell, because shirou has psp and WILL win the battle no matter what, but putting to real stuff, shirou doesnt stand a chance against Gilgamesh, we just won cause the visual novel needed to end
Gil's sword ends up getting destriod. Nasu stated that a Serious Gilgamesh could win the grail war in one day if he wanted to. Gilgamesh is on counter gardian level even in his servant state. Gilgamesh's only flaw is his over confidence, Emiya Shirou took advantage Gilgamesh's overconfidence by taking out gilgamesh before he became serious. And finally the visual novel needed an awesome end so it would suck if Emiya Shirou died at his prime.
dude read that part again because, Gils swords DONT get destroyed, you are talking about real nps full of prana getting destroyed by a fake np, really read that again.
Yeah well that's what a Reality Marble is. It overwrites reality. They get destroyed as in they stop being maintained, their prana structure shatter, and they return to the vault.
Agreeing with QTTWF. Gil is easily the strongest character in Fate were it not for his glaring overconfidence to under-estimate everything and toy with his opponents until it's too late. It's how he died in all three routes, so. :|a
dude what i am saying is simple, Gils destroys shirou sword with his attack, but THEN instead of staying with that sword and keep atacking for no danm reason he picks ANOTHER DIFFERENT sword, for no goddanm reason, got it??? thats why i think its a poor way to give victory to shirou.
You mean just Gil showing off? Yeah he was just dicking around until Shirou managed to get close enough to slice off his arm. THEN he goes for Ea, but it's too late. The whole point was to show that AGAIN Gil is destined to be killed because he never takes anything seriously. I love the dick for the asshat that he is, but I found the black hole RESULTING from his sliced-off arm much more off-putting than when Shirou managed to keep up and gain the upper hand with Gil in his UBW Marble.
again.... the point is that they dont say what the fuck Gils do with the sword that he's using, so shirou's moment gets to forced, Gil's is getting pressed and shirou is winning because " his weapons are already there", but if Gil is breaking shirou's weapons with his attaks he doesnt need to keep changing swords. it was this what i think it is wrong, if they said: " he brokes my weapon and his get destroyed too" or something alike that would be the reason for picking another sword. got it now?
No really. I'll admit I don't remember - was Gil PHYSICALLY holding and parrying, or was he just shooting stuff out per usual? If it's the latter, then it makes sense to me. You lose an arrow when you fire it - and in their case, Gil materializes a sword, Shirou insta-copies it, rushes in wielding it, and Gil has to shoot at it and break it in order to not get hit. NGL the Servant/Human thing really get distorted there, but heck, there are worse ways to end that fight.
Thats exactly it, he was holding physically, that's the why, and thinking in a way... if Gil started to shoot GoB agains shirou inside ubw, teorically he would win, shirou is wielding the swords, everty time it get hit it get destroyed, so if Gil fire 30 at him he cannot avoid then, well he could if he was Lancelot
There is a SHIT TON of things Gilgamesh could have done to win. Like. Instead of worrying about his shirt getting dirtied by ASH back in the Einzbern castle when he was JUST ABOUT TO SKEWER Shirou, actually KILL him.
Or just stop dicking around period. But it wouldn't be the King of Carelessness if he adopted an EFFICIENT method of killing people off. 8|
yeah, its like when he died he changed to what he really is. in hollow ataraxia i like they way he gets puzzled to how people hate him and hate what he becomes when he grows up, best scene ever is Gil, Archer and Lancer fishing
You mean how Gil should have been post Quest of Immortality in the actual epic? Yeah NASU's Gil was much more like how he was BEFORE meeting Enkidu, despite the fact that NASU took him post-Journey. But let's not look too hard into this; if I recall correctly King Arthur is supposed to be a pompous ass, too.
That's Ko-Gil, though! Poor kid, he's so adorable. D: Giiiil what happened. And yes that scene was totally awesome. I feel sorry for Lancer.
いくぞ英雄王！武器の貯蔵は十分か！？
Spiffyster 9 months ago
Err the only thing lost in dubs (most of time) is some context, as unlike the old samurai movies voiced over with the same exact words (leading to jaws moving innapropriately to the words "exiting" them), voice actors now have to speak with the same movements, while attempting to keep the majority of the context, frankly saying all Dubs suck is the same as saying "All dub actors suck". Which is a load of bullsh**, lets see you attempt to translate something without losing the context :/
Direwolf13PS3 1 year ago
@Direwolf13PS3 BTW many Dubs are done in CANADA (NOT THE US)
Direwolf13PS3 1 year ago
@Direwolf13PS3 damn who you ranted out?
project0omega 1 year ago
@kosuricluka, I'm fairly sure "suck" is an opinion. Therefore, it is both impossible to state that it is a fact that dubs in general suck and also impossible to come up with actual statistics. What are the benefits? And say, wouldn't subs be mutilating by your definition? That would be Americanizing (not all dub companies are situated in America FYI) since it's not keeping true to the original Japanese script. Don't be a hypocrite.
TheYuriHitoehi 1 year ago
@TheYuriHitoehi There are good dubs out there, even though, as you are correct, and an overwhelming majority aren't as good as the original Japanese. But I can point to the English Dubs of Code Geass, Love Hina and Full Metal Panic! as examples of excellent dubs.
FortressFortuna 1 year ago 2
man this song is awesome
now i wanna see the fate stay night UBW movie again wish it was in English dub already
stevo20k 1 year ago
@stevo20k : No... just no... dubs are a crime against anime. The voices are mismatched, the phrases lose their original sense just to fit the lips of the characters and the humour, Japanese humour is replaced by some lame US jokes. You sacrifice so much and gain so little... T_T
kosoricluka 1 year ago
@kosoricluka Dude. Dubs are not a crime against anime. There are good ones out there as there are bad ones. So by your logic, imported games should no have english voice overs either. HMMMMMMM?
crazyjavi87 1 year ago
@crazyjavi87 : EXACTLY ! All Japanese games should just stick with the original voices and have subs. That's the option I use if there is one. American people need to stop Americanising media. Just because its not in English or that the humour isn't western humour doesn't mean you should mutilate it.
If we look at it purely statistically 99% of dubs suck, fan made or professional.
Also some casual sub reading wont hurt, it will only benefit you... >_>
kosoricluka 1 year ago
@kosoricluka I sense some weaboo here...
deadeye415 1 year ago 6
@deadeye415 whats weaboo?
project0omega 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@kosoricluka I just have to say that this is the sort of crap that only comes from an ignorant weaboo. Dubbing exists in all forms of media, in spite of you thinking it only applies to "americans" - even more English language films end up dubbed (often poorly) into Spanish, Japanese, etc. So, sorry to burst your bubble, but anime is a subgenre of film and television, you should be thankful that so much attention is being paid to your media of choice at all.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Do you have enough weapons, king of kings :O?
Dan1loBr 1 year ago
Do you have enough weapons, king of kings :O?
Dan1loBr 1 year ago
is this photo from the manga or from a video game?
bakura0 1 year ago
@bakura0
It's from the VN(Visual Novel) Fate/Stay Night
FFXIIX 1 year ago
Alternatively, 9LBW killed Berserker 8 times and the final gut shot took out 2 lives at once. Or Berserker lost an extra life due to exsangination or heinous trauma. Or Berserker had all 10 remaining lives taken by 9LBW but his high-level Battle Continuation allowed him one last attack before dissipating.
There's a lot of possibilities to explain it. Although the last makes Berserker more GAR by effectively giving him a temporary 13th life via willpower alone.
AnimeNikkaJamal 1 year ago 11
@AnimeNikkaJamal
Yes, yes he is. 2nded, 3rded, and over 9001st'd.
SparkServant 1 year ago
Comment removed
AnimeNikkaJamal 1 year ago
Can't we all just agree he died? Shirou, Ilya, Sakura, and Saber all acknowledge that. Does it matter how many times it happened? Perhaps Twelve Labors got canceled when he became Dark Berserker. After all, Saber didn't have Avalon (nor did Shirou for that matter).
Blaze1616 1 year ago
@Blaze1616 In Heaven's feel, archer shot a broken phantasm at berserker once, then saber also killed him once, then he became dark berserker (10 lives) shirou's NINE lives blade works killed it 9 times then he thrust the rock sword at it one more time
6loyalofchongfu07 1 year ago
@6loyalofchongfu07 The argument is that Nine Lives Bladeworks only struck Berserker Eight times simultaneously (the whole part where Shirou is talking about hitting Berserker in eight points), and the final gutshot by Shirou was the Ninth kill.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@Blaze1616 Yeah, but it's a frequent debate over little details like that help people understand more about the story. Like how you mention that Saber/Shirou did not have Avalon, and that's explained because Shirou -did- have Avalon, it just didn't do anything because before either of them realized it, the link between Saber and Shirou had been cut. And if Twelve Labors had been canceled, Berserker would have died earlier and never came back.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
Sabre Alter confirms that Shirou defeated Berserker.
Berserker was killed twice before fighting Shirou. Then Shirou used NLBW and killed him 8 times. That's 10 deaths. Then, Shirou stabs him with the final thrust and he dies. That's 11 deaths, unless the final thrust killed him more than once.
AnimeNikkaJamal 1 year ago
Comment removed
crowmaster02 1 year ago
@AnimeNikkaJamal the thing is that you need to kill berserker 12 times not 11
blazingshadow 1 year ago
@blazingshadow
What about Saber's dark Excalibur? Even if the shadow got him, he got hit before that.
SparkServant 1 year ago
Nice track!
btw, notice the swinged right hand of shirou, stare on it for a bit while and realize he is doing a bad finger!
Shirou: who cares 'bout ur gate of babylon. Ur in my world so F**c off!!!
Gil: argh, onore-onore-onire, I didn't thought I'll be pressured like this. gtg.
Shirou: like I'll let u. (last hitter)
Gil: (sound effect: pig's spirited away).
Epic Fin!
YouFirstNextMe 1 year ago
Enough walls of text, dudes! xD
SparkServant 1 year ago
Gilgamesh, eat shit in hell!
DarthFanta 1 year ago
Is there a certain name for this type of techno music??? Usually techno is annoying to me but this is exactly the kind of songs I like. Awesome!!!
inuyasha4211 1 year ago
Yay for FSN Debate.. ~_~
+ Gilgamesh looks more bad-ass with this hair than his 'goku' hair.
lolrar 1 year ago
If Shirou creat swords out of UBW, that means he purely projects swords, that's why it will overload his circuit and he will kill him self, When he uses UBW, he overwhelms the Reality by his soul with mana, that means he use only one magic, and his soul is a WORLD WITH INFINITE SWORDS, so that he just need mana to maintain his Reality Marble, not mana and circuit to create swords. That's why he use UBW
2821421 1 year ago
@2821421 it depends on how shirou can handle this and what is the rank of the weapon he is projecting, and shirou is especially good here in the UBW route since he got a lot of training and fighting experience. UBW is a forbidden magic that alters the real world and creates a new world from the user's mind it is related to caster's territory creation in some way, in UBW swords projects w/ lightning speed exceeding even gil's GOB and cost extremely low mana but shields are twice the cost.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil UBW already has infinite sword in it, if Shirou wants to fire sword then UBW Itself is enough since It's a world with infinite sword, all Shirou need to do is providing mana, UBW also helps Shirou accelerating his projecting swords if he need to ( in UBW, Shirou did project swords to oppose Gilgamesh's swords). Of course there is no shield in UBW so Projecting a shield cost much mana
2821421 1 year ago
@2821421 obviously UBW is consists of "of unlimited blades" but it doesn't mean it doesn't have a shield. it's all acdg. to the VN, UBW is the "real talent" of shirou as a mage, it's not actually projection but is is creation of RM, projection is just a by product. He named that world UBW b/c it has infinite "blades" but from his fight from gil and riderxDsaber fights, rho aious came from the UBW(world) and try reading the game's UBW's description, it says there that all ---
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@2821421 --- weapons that are in shirou's mind are projected in a glance though shields cost twice mana than swords. the truth there is that the projection of weapons' mana cost that was told in the description was actually the mana cost that shirou uses to maintain the world, in short maintaining the swords there is the same as maintaining the whole world, so if shirou slacks off his imagination, the swords will slowly dissappear and so as the world, also shirou need reprojection.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil What u say is not wrong, that means creating UBW and a sword and maintaining it have the same method, but What I said is UBW is a world with sword, if Shirou wants to fire sword (example: spamming sword with Gilgamesh), he won't need mana (that's the use of UBW), when he creates swords in UBW, he needs less mana. And talking about shield, I think Shirou's attribute is sword, not shield, so he needs much more mana to project one, even if the shield itself is in UBW
2821421 1 year ago
@2821421 of course it wont need mana, even outside UBW letting the swords float and firing them(called sword bullet by shirou) dont cause mana but outside ubw, maintaining their existence cost much mana. dude in UBW he don't create swords, he is in the world full of swords after all, remember shirou reels of swords from the ground and he don't project it, he levitates those swords from the ground and not projecting it. only reprojection of destroyed weapon cost him mana inside UBW.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil That's what I wanted to say, dude. I think u misunderstand my words a bit. Read it again clearly if u want to "UBW already has infinite sword in it, if Shirou wants to fire sword then UBW Itself is enough since It's a world with infinite sword, all Shirou need to do is providing mana"
2821421 1 year ago
@2821421 well uhm i just digged in deeper, but anyways different people different perpectives, good to hear other opinions.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil true shirou atribute is weapons to be precise not swords.
he can make any weapon as long as he understands its making EA is an exception.
he can also make shields but they cost 3 times more.
the two strongest shields he can make are rho aisa and avalon(because he had it in his body for a long time).
in the world he has unlimited swords it doesnt cost mana ta make swords in there. only cost mana to keep the bondouri field on
henryhenriquez 1 year ago
@henryhenriquez actually try not to be quite literal, he may project gaebolg and rho aius but most of them are cousins of swords such as daggers and shortswords. in my previous statement about the boundary is again try not to be literal. reread it my statements again cause typing is tedious. btw if shirou has weapons as his attribute, wonder why he dont project guns and RPG's or tommahawks and BTW UBW is actually a replica of GIL's GOB.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil dont wory man. take evrything i say not serious. i just say stuff that comes to mind.
UBW> GOB
there both the same really.. except GOB is slower once hes UBW. in normal terms they are about the same speed.
both can sword spam till tomorow if they had mana.
i still dont get the ending of UBW.
where archer said he gained the king of heroes NP.
could that be EA.
or the whole GOB.
and the ending credits
henryhenriquez 1 year ago
@henryhenriquez its impossible to project EA cause Ea isnt written on the history, it got no past here on earth. maybe he meant that obtaining his NP means defeating him in a duel w/ the same NP. To add more GOB might have a lot of weapons but once its broken it won't return while UBW just reanimates its broken swords and fly away again, so if they ended up spamming the whole day, GIL might run out of weapons on his cache,
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil counter guardian emiya would be hax... with unlimited mana.
since he will spam all day while hiding behind rho ais. and he can use the weapons abilities
henryhenriquez 1 year ago
@henryhenriquez haha but it's also not plausible for him to use it repeatedly coz his mana circuits (where the mana passes) will burn out even if how much mana he got.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil read the information on th servant archer:
i qoute: a blacksmith hero, who can use reality marble without penalty to forge numerous weapons.
so now if he has enough mana you are screwed once UBW gets cast
henryhenriquez 1 year ago
@henryhenriquez but i suggest you read those "hidden" lines in between not on those wikia's but on the VN itself. the statement "w/o penalty" declares archer can't be penalized by his unlimited creation of swords b/c accdg. to the laws of sorcery to create those weapons he needs to have a lot in return but since shiro is special he was the only one who could do it. But yes he can keep up UBW for long while w/ mana but it would exhaust him a lot of energy
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@henryhenriquez and burn his circuits (if not trained enough) and even how much mana he got and how power his reality marble became, a blow from an ultimate NP(such as EA, and xclbr) would blow the reality marble out, take note that shirou's UBW disappeared w/ only a flash of light from xlcbr, so actually UBW does not need a fountain of mana but just enough, it is very lethal on its own and could win any batlle if used properly.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil It was my impression that the Reality Marble faded because of the huge release of energy from the destruction of the Holy Grail, and not Excalibur. Also, I disagree that UBW could win any battle. Really, the only battle it could win would be one against Gilgamesh; the Gates of Babylon and Unlimited Blade Works are perfectly matched. Note, for example, that Archer lost against Berserker, and was not holding back in the slightest.
divcotta 1 year ago
@divcotta the blinding light that eliminated the UBW was xclbur's magical energy, not the grail's, this scenario also happened in fate zero but it was Ea which eliminated rider's reality marble.every servant has a weakness and UBW has all those weakness since it is a copy of GoB w/c contained all the swords that's strong against every servant(e.g.Kaladbolg is strong against gae bolg), and you forget about nine-lives blade works? surely berserker will loose against archer if he used that.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil Remember, though, that when Shirou used Nine Lives Blade Works against Dark Berserker, he was using it against an opponent who a) was down a rank due to serving a different master, b) had apparently had all his skin ripped off, and c) was blind. Servants are always at their strongest when serving their true master; look at Shinji's Rider vs. Sakura's Rider, or look at Saber vs. Dark Saber.
divcotta 1 year ago
@divcotta even though he was down a rank their that could've killed him 9 times leaving 2 more lives archer has to deal w/. well that is shirou of course, miles weaker than archer. it's not that servants grow weaker when they serve different master, look at lancer serving for kirei(he was bazzet's servant)it's all about whether the servants was twisted against their will, if youre saying dark saber vs saber think again, dark saber has become the strongest servant their
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@divcotta to add more how about you compare shirou's saber vs rin's saber? shirou was the real master but saber was a lot stronger when she was under rin. rider was weaker when she was in shinji's b/c shinji never carried a legitimate command spell thus sakura is still the master, and dark saber has a rank down in her abilities b/c she was constantly restraining herself in doing bad things but still her mana is the strongest in all servants.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil When Saber formed a contract with Rin, Rin became her legitimate master. I agree with you about the whole "being twisted against their will" thing; Rider was able to fight effectively vs. Dark Sakura because her will was to serve NORMAL Sakura. And of course Dark Saber had a lot of mana... she had a direct connection to the freakin' Holy Grail. Even with that advantage, in Bad End 38, she almost outright loses to Shirou fighting alone.
divcotta 1 year ago
@divcotta sas i've said saber is constantly restraining herself there, you could say that she did that in purpose, if she wasn't shirou is dead by excalibur, and of course shirou's attack was powerful b/c it was archer;s kanshou and bakuya's overedge attack. who Told you that sakura fought rider? rider said that he would only help shirou b/c he is her ally and her duty is to fight dark saber, she never wanted to attack sakura, she really didnt care much wther sakra is normal or not actually.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@divcotta Saber does lose, she doesn't die. She's even proud of Shirou as she lays there, regenerating.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe For you my friend I suggest you reread or rather try to go for bad ending 38 for you to see that dark saber did die from shirou's overedge attack (crane wing but he did not manage to bring out KB's ulti form he just used 2 pairs, mst be 3) but shirou also died as well just after that. Dark saber lost some of her abilities my friend, that includes riding(from rank B+ to 0) her insticts from A to D but most of her abilities increased that include Her magical mana burst and mana pool.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil I'm afraid you're very mistaken, I'll quote HF's Bad End 38 for you.
"She'll heal within ten minutes if she's left alone.
But - conversely, she cannot do anything for ten minutes and has to accept any finishing blows."
She looks to Shirou for that coup de grace, but it never comes. Shirou's mind has been destroyed, and Saber sighs as she notes that she's "won," and then comments on whether Rin can free Sakura within the next seven minutes before Saber heals.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@dharmdevil Saber Alter (or Dark Saber as you call her) has some changes in her ability due to alignment change, and it's noted specifically where that happens. Everything else, where she gets her mana pool increased, strength, etc. comes from her mana source.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@dharmdevil Wait, Saber Alter is not down-ranked in -any- of her abilities. And is in fact, far stronger with an unlimited mana pool. You can check yourself in the Visual Novel Extras that Saber Alter is in no way weaker.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe Saber's Instinct power drops a rank as Saber Alter. Given that this is one of her major strengths it's probably why Shirou can beat her with Crane Wing.
GnashGralar 1 year ago
@GnashGralar Well, this is mostly in response to dharmdevil's comment that Servants who switch masters drop in power, and I basically just have to show that all that is bunk.
Rider was weak under Shinji, because Shinji was a terrible mage. Saber under Shirou was weaker than she should have been for the same reason.
Berserker was weak enough for Shirou to beat because Berserker ripped off his primary defense, his skin, not because 'he switched masters.'
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe i was not the one who commented that having different master weakens a servant, i was actually contradicting it. to start first il go back to bad end 38 yeah i must rephrase my previous statement, I said she "did" die, yes but b/c of her mana pool she lived but still alive, but my fault I wasn't literal. Its not that shinji was a weak master, in fact rider should have enough mana since she got it from people's life energy --
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil Rider had not completed the mana transfer ritual when Shirou and Rin interrupted them. She had the school under the spell, but she was interrupted by Shirou and Rin. She may have gotten a little energy, but not a great deal. And remember, the whole reason Rider was performing the spell in the first place was because Shinji couldn't give her the mana she needed, so she had to look for alternative sources. The same applies to Caster and Gilgamesh.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe she got enough mana for sure considering the number of people in that school and most of them were healed by kirei. and take note that after that incident sakura has to replenish the fake command spell of shinji thus in the brief moment where rider was sakura's she got some mana from sakura, remember that rider used bellerephon to escape then she used it again in her fight w/ saber, she wouldn't be able to do that if she didnt receive mana.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil Whoa who whoa, where did it say that Sakura had to replenish the command spell after the school incident? You're just making things up now!
I said Rider got some mana. She certainly would have gotten more if she completed the spell.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe OK lst thing, i recommed you guys to read the novel 5 times all over again, youre not getting the "missing words" w/in the lines of the novel.youre just looking at the top of an iceberg. remember this, each and every routes in the novel are connected to each other and those events in HF are the "fillers" in each empty holes of the other routes, mainly the events happening to sakura and rider etc, pls understand this, to reitriate this one is tiring.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil Yeah, you keep telling people to read the novel, and yet, you seem like you're completely incapable of keeping the whole continuity together. You don't provide actual evidence when you describe your theories, and you keep saying 'read the visual novel' and yet you can't cite where you read these things. Do -that- instead of just saying 'read the visual novel'.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe do you really want me to take around 6 - 10 comment box just sighting every lines?? damn dude its just like bible, you cant see the real message if you just read it line by line, every line has 'partner' and together they show the 'secret' message encoded, get the point? very well if you need specifics il give you tons of it.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe -- it is because on the first place shinji never had a legitimate comand spell and sakura was still the master of rider, plus rider never wanted to obey shinji so we could say that she also restrains the gravity of shinji's commands. Even though we say that berserker got no skin, well he got infinite mana pool in xchange.and he was completely covered in black mud w/c is better dfnce plus he has his noble phantasm back,
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil I think you're stretching into "theory" territory here with the part about legitimate contracts. The only clear-cut evidence that Sakura ever turns over command is during Heaven's Feel, and that's when Zouken forces her to use her second command spell to give Rider back to Shinji.
As for Beserker, where does it say that the black mud turned into armor or skin? Now you're really just making things up. Nowhere does it say that the black mud 'reforms' his skin when he resurrects.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe ah just saw this one comment of yours, i always reread the novel once a month and I'm sure that I'm accurate at this one, try to read the part where dark berserker was going after shirou and illya and you should be able to see it when shirou describes the apperance of berserker, that his eyes is blind and only emits hostility bla bla bla, unless youre reading an illegitimate transtalation.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
Comment removed
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@dharmdevil Really, prove where the Black mud that Beserker was his skin. Quote it. Beserker was blind, and his body was missing his skin, the Visual Novels' CG and the text itself notes this.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe was i that unclear? sorry this is youtube not forums so everything i typed are compressed. 1st after the school incident shinji lost his fake command spell and sakura must replenish it, at the brief moment where rider was back to sakura, the flow of mana returns to her 'true' master and returns to normal and rider replenished some of her mana by then before she back to shinji, if it wasnt replenished rider should've disappeared from her usage of belerephon.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil also remember that shinji was never rider's master in every route it has always been sakura.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil You're going around the whole point. Where did it say that Sakura had to replenish it? Nowhere does it say that Shinji lost his command spell during the School incidents in either Fate or UBW. The only times Shinji lost his Command Spell was when Zouken took it away in Heaven's Feel. Now, stop trying to argue around the point and quote where you read this, because it's not in the Visual Novel.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@dharmdevil I'll do it for you. Chapter title "Vs. Rider (I) - Crazy Train" - show me where Shinji uses or loses his Command Spell. Shirou threatens to take it away, but Rider escapes with Shinji before anything happens. Where did Shinji lose a command spell? Rider surprised him and escaped with Shinji on her own. At what point did Shinji lose the command spell, hrm? There's no place here for Sakura to have needed to replenish a used command spell.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe ok BTW i never saw or should i say i can't recall wether there is a statement that berserker got his skin ripped of or something, give me these specific of yours and tell me your translator. For wether his NP was back, it was a mere common sense, take note that the 8 targets of shirou are 8 vital points that even servant would die from if fatally wounded from that the novel is suggesting that shirou killed him 9 times
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil Mirror Moon translation, unless you're using something else.
Heaven's Feel - Day 10 - Power Game - "He tore off his flesh along with the shadow"
Fate - Day 11 - Intermission: Archer and Berserker - "Archer delivered a fatal blow six times. It does not even need to be said that each of the attacks was by a different method. Even the greatest attacks cannot be effective on Berserker twice."
If Berserker still had his skin, Shirou's tenth hit should not have killed him.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
To further clarify, Berserker's Noble Phantasm makes him immune to all but the strongest of attacks, and even then, Berserker becomes immune to it if if used again.
The logic is very simple - if Berserker's noble phantasm were still in full effect, he would be immune for two reasons: he'd already suffered an attack by the weapon, and the weapon was not as powerful as Shirou/Archer's projections are downranked (see the VN's extras on Archer). That's common sense.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe take note that shirou clarified that his very own weapon would be able to scratch him, ok in this part there is a big msunderstanding of NLBW, first what shirou projected is the axe sword not NLBW, NLBW was a technique ported by hercules from his original bow and arrow technique to his axe sword and since projecting comes w/ the techniques,
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil He never says the axe-sword would "scratch Berserker." You'd have to quote that. What Shirou does say is that the only thing he could think of to counter Berserker's axe-sword was Berserker's axe-sword, and that was in a moment where he had to create something to block Berserker's attacks in "Battle in the Forest; Second Half."
"What can beat him?
What can match him?
-It's Clear
It can be nothing less than the sword he carries!"
And then that axe-sword is destroyed.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe yeah but at that time he didnt released archer's arm yet and hes using his immature projection magic and expect a very low quality of projection, "What can beat him?" from that if it wont even scratch berserker he should've have even said beat b/c if it cannot scratch him from it he cannot be beaten in the first place, scratch is an understatement already.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil Right, but note that's quite a bit before NLBW and he doesn't say anything like that after. But the point now is that the axe-sword used for NLBW is the same one used in the hit that comes after, and if Berserker still has his noble phantasm, he should be immune to it afterwards.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe i could've agreed w/ you when you said it was because illya distracted berserker that's why he was able to land it, NLBW is composed of 9 strikes right? the ninth strike is the strike at the heart, the 8 other strikes was striked w/ godlike speed first in a circular manner leaving 1 last fatal spot that is the heart, i think that last strike was meant for the immortal head of the hydra.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil That just adds a math problem to the equation. It states right before NLBW that Berserker has been killed twice. "He's blind and insane, and his life has been ended twice over."
So, twice before NLBW, then eight slashes from that simultaneous attack, and then the last shot to the chest. That would equal eleven deaths. Berserker would have one more life coming.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe hes been killed twice b/c of excalibur and being swallowed on the mud resurrected as a zombie, that line can be misleading, it is because excalibur only killed berserker once, despite the fact that we see him lying there and swallowed by the mud, he still is regenerating in there but immobilized by his wound and the mud, so he lost 2 of his lives there and he got only 9 lives back when he was dark berserker so yeah lucky shirou, if it wasnt then hes dead.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil So, the mud takes lives then when people are swallowed by it? How does Saber Alter come back, then, hrm? No, that's clearly wrong.
Berserker's noble phantasm grants him twelve lives. Two are gone, nine are then taken away. Eleven deaths. He still has one more.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe Are we forgetting that Shirou's last thrust may just have eaten more than one life, Caliburn-style? Then it excuses the remaining life.
AnimeNikkaJamal 1 year ago
@AnimeNikkaJamal We were counting that one.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@dharmdevil This also opens up a second argument for why Berserker no longer has his noble phantasm - he's lost his bonus lives as well. You can use your own argument against yourself: unlike Caliburn, the eight strikes are never said to kill Berserker and, as you say, merely opened up a weak point in Berserker's defense, cutting off an eighth of Berserker's body, and the ninth attack kills him off. This will explain the math, as well.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe to this comment what is the point of shirou of saying all those obvious fatal spots then? there are a lot of misleading lines there actually and they are purely metamorphical statements meant to describe the body of berserker not for the math. that is why shirou was shocked to see berserker still striked when he landed the 8 shots b/c it should have killed him 8 times and must be immobilized and regenerating but b/c of his bravery skill he still was able to attack
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil For the same reason that other characters in Fate Stay Night take obviously fatal hits and live through them - Shirou himself, Archer, Saber, and Beserker, specifically. It's just to show how close to death they get. It's even one of Berserker's abilities: Battle Continuation - Grade A that he can continue battle until he receives a clearly fatal blow. All those strike points are fatal, but not all of them cause an immediate death like a shot to the heart.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@dharmdevil I mean, Nasu goes through the trouble of describing how powerful Berserker is - he takes obviously lethal hits and then keeps going. No greater example is the entire fight between Gilgamesh and Berserker in Unlimited Blade Works. He is clearly beyond death at the end, and he still manages to crawl over and comfort Ilya.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe another example of this is his fight w/ gilgamesh, gilgamesh killed him 11 times already and he still moved and broke enkidu when gil was about to get the heart of ilya, it b/c of his ability bravery he was able to keep up even he has lost a lot of his body parts etc., and remember that dark berserker was obviously more powerful than ordinary berserker just like dark saber , its just that he lost his sight.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil Count again. Gilgamesh killed him twelve times. While Berserker is in the chains (He had died 10 times before), Gil impales him with twenty noble phantasms and kills him for the eleventh time (or twentieth time as it says). Berserker breaks free and then gets impaled for the twelfth death.
"That's it.
The black giant dies for sure this time."
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago 9
@DevilTakeMe Hmmm, didn't Berserker die once against Archer and Saber right at the start. When Archer used Broken Phantasm
lol1143 1 year ago
@lol1143 It's really hard to say if Berserker died or not. We can assume he did, but there's no actual evidence that he died. It was an A-rank NP that hit him, but there's no evidence that it actually did damage. It's never really mentioned after that scene.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe i dont know why my comment was not posted but anyway il repost it, it is about berserker's skin topic, it was said that when berserker tore off his chest but it was not specific whether berserker tore off his entire chest or just a section, but nevertheless it is obviously "chest" only not legs or arms' skin and remember that only 2 strikes from NLBW is at the chest , diaprhagm and rib, windpipe is throat so it is in the neck. the rest is still covered in skin
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil What good would have just ripping off the skin from his chest do? He was knee deep in the Mud, and his whole body was wrapped up in the shadow. He was trying to free himself, because he was completely immobilized.
"The mud below him isn't the only thing binding him, as the black shadow is coiled all about his body.
He cannot move forward.
Berserker cannot even take a step forward with his body bound by black shadow."
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@dharmdevil "He tore off his flesh along with the shadow, going deep enough to expose his bones.
The giant bursts into motion."
Just because he pulled at his chest doesn't mean the skin didn't come off the rest of his body. Have you ever skinned something? The skin doesn't just come off at one point, you can pull the skin off of a creature's limbs by pulling from the body.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe therefore even though the axe sword was certainly downranked it is the techniques's(NLBW) strength that gave its power. if youre saying that berserker gets immune from an attack of the same weapon in the 2nd time, think again, how can you explain the caliburn incident then? certainly brsker got hit and his arm was cut and yet he dies 7 times in a stab? and caliburn is a weaker attacker compared to NLBW and it is projected by the newbie shiro? explain that.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil For starters, the sword that cut Berserker's arm isn't the same one that's used in the 7-kill slash (the first one breaks when it makes the cut). Shirou has to project Caliburn a second time, and he notes how much effort it takes for him to get it 'right' the second time.
And then, of course, Shirou is just the maker, he wasn't the user when Caliburn is used to kill Berserker seven times. It's Saber who makes the cut, and is the one providing energy to the sword.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@dharmdevil Day 15 - Battle in the forest: First half overload. Tell me where in this description does it say that Beserker's Noble Phantasm, God Hand, is back? It's just not there. Even in the following chapters, though Nine Bullet Revolver was made specifically to hit Beserker nine times, had Beserker had his protection, he would have been immune to the tenth hit - the singular hit to his chest. But that didn't happen, Beserker was killed.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe FIRST about the mud thingy,
Battle in the forest: First half - overload (mirrormoon translation)
shirou:Kotomine said his eyes can't see. He's right, but he's not accurate.
The servant has no eyes, nose, or mouth. His glowing red eyes are there to emit hostility. His body is covered by the BLACK MUD, and the wound he received from saber was left alone. That's completely different. Englulf in MUD, .....
questions?
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe to add more to the berserker topic il qoute some of shirou;s heroic lines.
Shirou: The running giant won't stop in one blow, and normal projection is useless against him. Tracing won't do the trick. I cnt beat that giant unless I use projection past my limits. Therefore - "trigger off". Nine in my head.I use all 27 magic circuits in my head and smash it in one blow.
Understand those lines and the next ones and you should get where did the fuck i got the idea of his NP back
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe OK didn't i told you to read underwater? you will never know the size of an iceberg if you wont dive ok? get it? FSN is not your ordinary night stories like peter pan or cinderella, Nasu is known for his 'mysteries' and peculiar way of storytelling, like for example the kara no kyoukai, he used scrambled timeline spcialy in no. 5. for the sakura thingy give me an hour i need to eat first and list all those specifics your craving for.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
Comment removed
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dharmdevil You cannot form an accurate depiction of a story without securing the foundation - the little pieces that make up the larger picture. I don't care what Nasu is 'known for', I'm asking what you can prove. Otherwise, it's a great deal of guessing without evidence. Sakura is only shown to use her command spell twice - the last ordering Rider to help Shirou, and the time before that was transferring Rider's contract to Shinji. So, connect the dots.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
Comment removed
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe ok now i got what you meant when you based it on that hydra thing, im trying my best to understand your viewpoint and not being skeptic.I would say it is MY MISTAKE to say that it was developed by archer, what i meant in developed was copied by that time, NLBW was based on hercules's lost noble phantasm since he became berserker, it was said that it was the technique he used to kill the hydra although it was 7 it was made 9 on the wikis so that it would be fitting for its name
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe remember shirou noted that berserker's weapon would definitely harm him , you could say that the nine-bullet revolver(nine lives blade works) was a technique (not a NP) developed by archer in situations wherein he fights someone like berserker.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil Nine Bullet Revolver, aka "Nine Lives Blade Works," is just like Rho Aias that Archer uses in UBW - it's not an actual Noble Phantasm, but rather a conceptual weapon based on something that Shirou has seen or read about.
It's irony that it's used on Beserker. One of Hercules' Twelve Labors was killing the Hydra - Hercules had to kill all nine of the Hydra's heads at the same time with a bow and arrow - the myth basis for Nine Lives, Beserker's true Noble Phantasm.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe rho aias is not a conceptual weapon, it is an actual noble phantasm w/c originally looks like a huge bronze shield w/ 7 layers of ox hide used by Ajax(Illiad), its activation looks like a red flower w/ 7 petals. archer probbly recrded this from one of his enemy on future.
for correction that hydra has 7 heads not 9 and has no conction on NLB at all. as i've said NLB is a tchnique usng brserkr's axe sword to strike 8 different vital points simultaneously and a final stab at the heart
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil Sorry, guy, but the Visual novel disagrees with you. And we're not going on historical accuracy, afterall (prove that King Arthur did or did not exist, and whether she was a female or not), we're going strictly by Fate/Stay Night's internal mythology and appropriate thematic conclusions.
So, on this point, you're just incorrect in assuming one telling of a myth is the rule.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe So your saying that your made up greek mytholgy came from the Nasu's edited myth? May nasu forgive you sir, I may not remember where i read about this since it has been 2 years since then , It was told that the novel was accurately based from myths except from the gender of arthur, since she has to be a female to complete the circle of heroines since it is an eroge game after all, i think it is in animenetworkdotcom or dotnet? i forgot. BTW then your myth is the rule then XD
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe to add more you are actually incorrect for saying that the slaying of the hydra was included to hercules's 12 labors since his nephew helped him kill it. They used fire so that the head will not grow back not bows and arrows and used a giant rock on the immortal head of the hydra. It is the failed 2nd labor. And b/c of that his labour became 12 instead of 10. this is greek mythology.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil "HYDRA LERNAIA was a gigantic, nine-headed water-serpent, which haunted the swamps of Lerna. Herakles was sent to destroy her as one of his twelve labours, but for each of her heads that he decapitated, two more sprang forth."
I mean, you can argue the point of whether the Hydra was one of Hercules' twelve labors, but the point still stands. Hercules weapon of choice was "Nine Lives" or "Shooting Hundred Beasts." And a weapon based on that was used against him.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe i cant see it in any place that the hydra was 9 headed, try searching thorugh wikipedia and some greek mtyh books, it was always 7 headed. and its not hydra lernaia its LERNAEAN HYDRA - 'was an ancient nameless serpent-like chthonic water beast (as its name evinces) that possessed seven heads' -wikipedia. I dont know what youre talking about dude XD.
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe every weapon of archer/shirou has been seen, he have no conceptual weapon at all, even the gem sword has been seen by him. Remember that he is a counter-guardian of the future and he has been summoned in different ages before he finally became a servant, all of his arsenal were seen on those summoning, hrunting(beowulf), caladbolg(Fergus mc roich), rho aias(Ajax) Kanshou and Bakuya(Gan jiang and Mo Ye) etc....
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil You really are just making things up. It's absolutely clear you don't read the specifics about the Visual novel. Zelretch's Gem sword was created through a conversation with Rin regarding her knife - which was similar to the Gem Sword - it's not because he had seen it. Rin simply described it to Shirou and he projected it.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe OMG it hurts me someone saying that im just making things up. I think you forgot the novel dude. Read its not that rin jsut asked him to project the gem sword, IT WAS SEEN BY HIM THROUGH ILLYA's MEMORY, remember? Did you forgot about the 7 concepts of projection? b/c of that a conceptual weapon would never be born. ROFL about the "gem sword was created through conversation" .......
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@DevilTakeMe woah i just saw this "making things up!" statement, LOL, dude i never made up things w/o any basis at all, non sense, and besides try not to make up things from the greek mythology, its a greater sin after all, XD
dharmdevil 1 year ago
@dharmdevil Sorry, but you are making stuff up at this point, because you're drawing conclusions that are simply not there. Point out specifically where Shinji's use of the command spell requires Sakura to restore it? Because it's not there. Just reread Heaven's Feel again, where Zouken forces Sakura to use her Command Spell to return control of Rider to Shinji.
DevilTakeMe 1 year ago
@henryhenriquez BTW archer's strength w/ a very high mana does not lie on his UBW but rather on his broken phantasm such as kaladbolg, broken phantasm's power rely on how much mana the user has given it
dharmdevil 1 year ago
At what part of FHA does this play?
contown731 1 year ago
@contown731
It is in Fate Stay night, not Hollow Ataraxia
TamanoBaka 1 year ago
@TamanoBaka
Are you sure this song plays in FSN? Because I don't remember hearing it. I think you might be mixing it up with the regular "emiya".
contown731 1 year ago
@contown731 Oh, I thought you mean the fighting scene.
This song is anime, if you look at the uploader's note.
TamanoBaka 1 year ago
But Emiya#2 is Hollow Ataraxia.
QTTWF 1 year ago
@QTTWF
Then probably both, or I was mistaken XD
TamanoBaka 1 year ago
Comment removed
QTTWF 2 years ago
Didn't the battle work by Shirou firing his swords in Unlimited Blade Works while battling Gil head on? Gil didn't think straight an was firing 3rd rate Noble Phantasms, so Shirou needed to kill him while he was unnerved before he brought out his first class weapons? Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.
QTTWF 2 years ago
the 3rd rate comment was by Shirou, and that's comparing to EA, an EX rank he cant copy.
Those '3rd rate' weapons include those up to A++ rank
TamanoBaka 2 years ago
screwed -_-
terryelfster 2 years ago
Emiya：Screw the rules, I have a reality marble!
keyinregulus3 2 years ago 14
And thus Gil landed in an epic fail with one arm, torn/melted cloths, and an arrow in his skull
QTTWF 2 years ago
If only he had used the chain earlier...Emiya would have been the one screwed.
keyinregulus3 2 years ago
But Gil couldn't handle the pressure, he needed to jump back to regroup, he was overconfident...
QTTWF 2 years ago
Yes, and that's why the earlier he used the chain the better!
keyinregulus3 2 years ago
anwser me this, where does Gil's sword go after shirou atak him??? exatcly they simply dont tell, because shirou has psp and WILL win the battle no matter what, but putting to real stuff, shirou doesnt stand a chance against Gilgamesh, we just won cause the visual novel needed to end
hoylguy11 2 years ago
@hoylguy11
Gil's sword ends up getting destriod. Nasu stated that a Serious Gilgamesh could win the grail war in one day if he wanted to. Gilgamesh is on counter gardian level even in his servant state. Gilgamesh's only flaw is his over confidence, Emiya Shirou took advantage Gilgamesh's overconfidence by taking out gilgamesh before he became serious. And finally the visual novel needed an awesome end so it would suck if Emiya Shirou died at his prime.
QTTWF 2 years ago
dude read that part again because, Gils swords DONT get destroyed, you are talking about real nps full of prana getting destroyed by a fake np, really read that again.
hoylguy11 2 years ago
Yeah well that's what a Reality Marble is. It overwrites reality. They get destroyed as in they stop being maintained, their prana structure shatter, and they return to the vault.
Agreeing with QTTWF. Gil is easily the strongest character in Fate were it not for his glaring overconfidence to under-estimate everything and toy with his opponents until it's too late. It's how he died in all three routes, so. :|a
Daruki 2 years ago
"he cannot handle my attacks and needs to destroy my weapon with his attacks"
it is in the vn.... but doesnt say to wtf hell his swords go.
hoylguy11 2 years ago
Where do you think Saber's sword and Lancer's lance go when they don't need it for battle?
Unsummoned, most likely. It's likely that stuff from GoB follow the same principle, or at least, a similar one.
Daruki 2 years ago
dude what i am saying is simple, Gils destroys shirou sword with his attack, but THEN instead of staying with that sword and keep atacking for no danm reason he picks ANOTHER DIFFERENT sword, for no goddanm reason, got it??? thats why i think its a poor way to give victory to shirou.
hoylguy11 2 years ago
Oh.
You mean just Gil showing off? Yeah he was just dicking around until Shirou managed to get close enough to slice off his arm. THEN he goes for Ea, but it's too late. The whole point was to show that AGAIN Gil is destined to be killed because he never takes anything seriously. I love the dick for the asshat that he is, but I found the black hole RESULTING from his sliced-off arm much more off-putting than when Shirou managed to keep up and gain the upper hand with Gil in his UBW Marble.
Daruki 2 years ago
again.... the point is that they dont say what the fuck Gils do with the sword that he's using, so shirou's moment gets to forced, Gil's is getting pressed and shirou is winning because " his weapons are already there", but if Gil is breaking shirou's weapons with his attaks he doesnt need to keep changing swords. it was this what i think it is wrong, if they said: " he brokes my weapon and his get destroyed too" or something alike that would be the reason for picking another sword. got it now?
hoylguy11 2 years ago
/youlostme.jpg
No really. I'll admit I don't remember - was Gil PHYSICALLY holding and parrying, or was he just shooting stuff out per usual? If it's the latter, then it makes sense to me. You lose an arrow when you fire it - and in their case, Gil materializes a sword, Shirou insta-copies it, rushes in wielding it, and Gil has to shoot at it and break it in order to not get hit. NGL the Servant/Human thing really get distorted there, but heck, there are worse ways to end that fight.
Daruki 2 years ago
Thats exactly it, he was holding physically, that's the why, and thinking in a way... if Gil started to shoot GoB agains shirou inside ubw, teorically he would win, shirou is wielding the swords, everty time it get hit it get destroyed, so if Gil fire 30 at him he cannot avoid then, well he could if he was Lancelot
hoylguy11 2 years ago
There is a SHIT TON of things Gilgamesh could have done to win. Like. Instead of worrying about his shirt getting dirtied by ASH back in the Einzbern castle when he was JUST ABOUT TO SKEWER Shirou, actually KILL him.
Or just stop dicking around period. But it wouldn't be the King of Carelessness if he adopted an EFFICIENT method of killing people off. 8|
Daruki 2 years ago
he got serious against iskander, the result was win, against saber he loses because of the "power of love"
hoylguy11 2 years ago
That and in Hollow/Ataraxia in the end, but what's the odds? Iskander has earned his respect, which is HOW hard to do?
Ironically his demise in Fate is the only dignified one and kind of awesome because his dying words were actually noble. :|; Oh Gil.
Daruki 2 years ago
yeah, its like when he died he changed to what he really is. in hollow ataraxia i like they way he gets puzzled to how people hate him and hate what he becomes when he grows up, best scene ever is Gil, Archer and Lancer fishing
hoylguy11 2 years ago
You mean how Gil should have been post Quest of Immortality in the actual epic? Yeah NASU's Gil was much more like how he was BEFORE meeting Enkidu, despite the fact that NASU took him post-Journey. But let's not look too hard into this; if I recall correctly King Arthur is supposed to be a pompous ass, too.
That's Ko-Gil, though! Poor kid, he's so adorable. D: Giiiil what happened. And yes that scene was totally awesome. I feel sorry for Lancer.
Daruki 2 years ago
ahh, but then have you ever heard the story Gil tells about enkidu???? Poor Lancer even the little girl feels pity for him
hoylguy11 2 years ago