CBC Archives: Constitutional Criticism 1981

[Sweetyfashonista]

Anyone noticed Chretien sitting on Trudeau's left side in the beginning? Amazing!

[maxell1395]

ANOTHER FUCK UP

[FanBeatles123]

@uglybitch49 No. Levesque would have signed the Constitution if he could. No one now would do it, not even Charest.

[harrisonconstantinou]

why cant we have prime minister like trudeau who just wanted to make canada more autonomous from britian

[unab84]

Well yes and no, one has to understand what the FLQ really was ; It was a very small extremist (terrorist, because of the bombings) organisation with a few dozens ''hard members'' that had very broad support in the population.

In the end the police arrested less than 20 people who were ''real'' FLQ members; Thoses who murdered Pierre-Laporte went to jail but the abductors of Cross were given gold and a safe exit to Cuba. They are back in Quebec today and we see them on mainstream TV.

[Shukria123]

Charter of Rights? What a joke. We don't have any rights in Canada.

[ranchai100]

A constitution that favours minority scum who were not born here,making true born whites and aboriginals 2nd class citizens while excusing the criminal activity of minority scum,and basically giving them free reign to destroy canada from within.this contstitution must be changed if canada is going to survive as a country and all minority's must either be enslaved or deported.Im tired of my taxes going to criminal gangs who get away with every crime they commit for the sake of the minority vote

[tothatextent]

Trudeau in a nutshell : Ego Maniac power-hungry communist asshole - boom!

[taylormah92]

0:25 Is that Stockwell Day and Lucien Bouchard to the left and right of Trudeau?

[RedPheonix6]

Trudeau is responsible for every shit policy and a ton of waste that we still carry... sure Mulroney made GST (Which we all hate except for a few crazies) but in comparison to what Trudeau did... it was nothing, and yet EVERYONE hates on Mulroney, no one touches Trudeau, he is like Jesus or something... :/

[RedPheonix6]

Decentralize govt, only make federal authority have power over military and currency and trade (that is the only primary concern a fed govt should have anyway)... bar it from making any additional taxes except income tax legislation and give all other powers to the provinces exclusively, stop transfer payments, adopt interculturalism instead of multiculturalism and get an elected senate. On top of that cut monarchy as it has no place anymore and allow Canadians to choose head of state.

[crazyforcanada]

@RedPheonix6 - Before we pronounce on what to cut, we should understand what it means. First, the monarchy isn't the same thing as the "crown", which is a political tool of governance. The "sovereign" is the individual entitled to HOLD the Crown and operate its political functions. The "sovereign" is personally LIABLE for executive abuse of power via s. 9 of the BNA Act, 1867 - now called the Constitution Act, 1867. Moreover, the QUEEN answers to the PEOPLE. Being ignorant, we can't USE her!

[RedPheonix6]

@crazyforcanada I stand by my original claim and say that she has no place in the modern Canadian context anymore.... We do not elect the head of state yet we call ourselves democratic? Sure Britain doesn't either but she is British at least... meanwhile we have a foreign head of state for Canada. If you were an immigrant coming to Canada who would you rather swear an oath to? The country you seek to become a citizen of or a foreign royal who you have no connection with?

[crazyforcanada]

@RedPheonix6 - the Queen is not 'foreign' -- Canada is a political & cultural offspring of Britain and France. Regardless of which monarchical system ultimately guided this part of the world to political maturity, these roots are ours, they are not 'foreign'. Teaching us they are 'foreign' distances us from something extremely important: the knowledge that we have an INSTITUTION to protect us from tyrants (crown), and a PERSON responsible for the institution who answers to us.

[Sucrosefrei]

@RedPheonix6 You know you don't elect the PM either, m8. You only vote for your local MP. The more you know!

[RedPheonix6]

@Sucrosefrei yeah i know, personally i think it's best if we were allowed to elect both

[Sucrosefrei]

@RedPheonix6 If you were that involved in politics, you'd get membership in the major parties. This means (from now on and at least as regards the Liberal Party of Canada) that you can vote for the leader of the party during leadership conventions, hence voting for the potential PM. But here's a question for you: Do you think the majority always makes the right decision (or even the largest plurality in the first past the post system?). The average person is kinda dumb...

[RedPheonix6]

@Sucrosefrei I am a member of the CPC, and while I do think we would be happier if we got to all vote for the leader of each party, I do think it's each party's choice on how its leader is selected. What I meant was not that though, rather being able to not only elect an MP on the ballot but also the PM (some ppl may like a MP of one party and the leader of another). Yes I do think the people make the right decision, I firmly believe that.

[RedPheonix6]

@Sucrosefrei Calling the avg person dumb and assuming such is a rather straussian and elitist position. Further more anything that is against "the people" is anti-democratic and against all liberties and rights that we all enjoy and cherish

[Sucrosefrei]

@RedPheonix6 Well, if you interviewed the average "man on the street" then you will notice that very few of them will know their candidates policies on certain issues, even if they see them as important ones. Do you know why propaganda works so well? Because 50% of people are dumber than the median. Sorry if the truth hurts m8.

[Sucrosefrei]

@Sucrosefrei Oops, made some typoes.

[Acadianiste]

to hell with centralized homogenized Canada. I want a decentralized and diversified Canada.....

[Vicastel93]

in fact canada is one the most decentralized federations in the world

[Acadianiste]

Yeah lets make it even more so! ; )

[Miradart]

quebecs' only power comes from 'threatening' to leave. once they are gone, they're broke.

I can't believe that they still teach Quebec children that they are a net contributor to Canada. They haven't been a 'have' province in over a generation.

[fishhead06]

How so? Trudeau was French Canadian and his party represented practically every riding in Quebec.

[Gardenstatehomecomin]

@fishhead06 no social credit had about 20 in quebec and the PC's had 3. he had like 50

[Grepling]

@fishhead06 lol Trudeau never took any good actions for Quebec, but he was good for Ontario though..

[DLPanda]

@fishhead06 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The Quebec did not forget Trudeau up until he died. The War Measures Act, Bill 63, the biculturalism.... but I bet you don't know what any of these things are.

[fishhead06]

@DLPanda Of course I know Canadian history. WMA: Trudeau crushed terrorism, sending the message that political change is achieved peacefully in this country. Bill 63: Wasn't that provincial legislation? Biculturalism: What problem do you have with encouraging Anglo Canadians to develop a working knowledge of French? Afraid the country might get more unified? Anxiety about language and culture in Quebec is a sign of insecurity. Quebec has total control over its language in provincial matters.

[DLPanda]

@fishhead06 If you call the suspension of civil liberties and arbitrary arrests "peaceful", I can't imagine what "not peaceful" is like to you. There were tanks on the streets. Why? Nobody knows!

[fishhead06]

@DLPanda Why? Two kidnappings of prominent figures, and the killing of one of them; killing a police officer, robberies and bombings resulting and death and injury, including two dozen injured in the bombing of the Montreal Stock Exchange. I agree the War Measures Act was heavy-handed and cast too broad a net, but it broke the back of the FLQ and allowed the rise of a peaceful alternative in the PQ.

[DLPanda]

@fishhead06 It was more than just heavy-handed. It failed to protect Laporte and the Act involved the arrests of around 300 people. I don't understand how you can defend the War Measures Act and not the G20 summit at the same time.

Oh yes, and I go back to Trudeau's federalism. This was just another way of him promoting Canadian Nationalism (as we have seen past PMs do), but it backfired and separatism was dominant for the next 33 years. It's no longer an issue because we let it fizzle out.

[unab84]

@fishhead06 Don't fool yourself, the goal of the war measures act was also to intimidate the people of Quebec using the Canadian army. They arrested people based on their political beliefs.

Its laughable that Trudeau is praised today for the ''Charter of rights''...

[fishhead06]

@unab84 After the kidnapping of Cross and the murder of Laporte, the FLQ lost whatever minority support they might have had in Quebec. The WMA certainly did intimidate people from supporting or engaging in the terrorist activities of the FLQ. In that sense, it was effective. As I said above, I think the WMA act was heavy-handed and cast too broad a net - so I agree with you about that. But you must surely see that it also effectively destroyed the FLQ as a serious force in Quebec.

[unab84]

@fishhead06 What broke the back of the FLQ was the loss of support from the population. Wich is a result of the WMA but also of the fact that they murdered Pierre-Laporte...

Its one thing to kidnap a minister (wich is pretty bold and kinda cool), but its another thing to find him stangled in a pool of blood in the trunk of a car...

So they were a bit too extreme for the average population, and they lost support because of this.

[fishhead06]

@unab84 It isn't cool to forcibly deprive a person of his liberty, and threaten to kill him, simply because he is a democratically elected representative. But, apart from that, to say that the Liberals intended to quash Quebec nationalism is, I think wrong. I think Trudeau and his cabinet understood how deep-seated nationalism was/is, and that it wasn't going to disappear. They simply wanted to channel it into democratic institutions. And they did. And it has served Quebec nationalism very well.

[unab84]

@fishhead06 No sorry but Trudeau had a deep seethed hatred for the nationalist. He never actually acknowledged that it exist. To say that the whole thing was to ''channel it into democratic institutions'' is just nonsense...

[fishhead06]

@unab84 And you base this on what evidence, exactly? Can you recall any commentary from the time suggesting that the disappearance of the FLQ would result in a disappearance of Quebec nationalism? I think Trudeau wanted to mitigate it, but he knew as well as anyone that the PQ was a reality, and the WMA wasn't going to get rid of it.

[unab84]

@fishhead06 Well since you got me into it, I just watched 90min documentary on the october crisis ; They interview pretty much everyone from Trudeau's chief of staff, to the chief of the counter-terrorism unit, to the leader of cell that kidnapped Cross. Plus lawyers for the Qc gov, people from the media and other FLQ members.

What is clear out of it is that nobody in Quebec never asked for the army to come in, that was a decision taken by Trudeau's gov.

[unab84]

@fishhead06 The police said they needed special powers to deal with the situation, but sending the army went waaaaaay beyong anything that anyone ever asked (police, Qc gov.).

So you tell me what was the goal behind it. The excuse at the time was that there was a coup fomented by some Qc intellectuals that were about to overthrow the Qc gov.

But everyone knew, english media included, that this was total BS. Trudeau actually met with thoses intellectuals later on.

[unab84]

@fishhead06 So what was the goal behind this decision taken solely by Trudeau's gov? (sending the army I mean)

It was not to deal with the FLQ because nobody asked the feds to go that far. There was no coup and everyone knew it. So what was the goal?

One has to be honest with himself and at least consider that the goal might have been to terrorise the people away from the ideas that the FLQ carried ; wich were of socialism and indepedence, and raw, angry nationalism.

[unab84]

@fishhead06 In any case, the army was sent it for political reasons, not because the situation required it.

[walier100]

@unab84  BULLSHIT

[unab84]

@walier100 Get urself an education u little moron, instead of trolling old comments.

[unab84]

@fishhead06 And btw, the PQ at the time was not a reality ; It had just been formed and was a very young party. Quebec nationalism was a new phenomenon, and it had no ''offiicial structures'' to express itself ; neither in Quebec or in Canada.

[boinksism]

@unab84 At that time, it was the second mandate of Mr Levesque as Prime Minister of the province of Quebec. The party was already 12 years old. If 20 years is "new phenomenon" to you, the Quebec Nationalism ideas and faction began in the early 60 and got enforced during October Crisis. Mr Parizeau also contributed during two decades has an economist and then Finance Minister to develop the tools that would've allowed the Quebec to be an autonomous nation. I think we could've been just fine.

[boinksism]

@unab84 At that time, it was the second mandate of Mr Levesque as Prime Minister of the province of Quebec. The party was already 12 years old. If 20 years is "new phenomenon" to you, the Quebec Nationalism ideas and faction began in the early 60 and got enforced during the October Crisis. Mr Parizeau also contributed during two decades has an economist and then Finance Minister to develop the tools that would've allowed the Quebec to be an autonomous nation. I think we could've been just fine.

[unab84]

@boinksism We were talking about the october crisis and the FLQ, during the early 70's. The PQ took power for the first time in 76, and was created in 68.

[unab84]

@fishhead06 But again, I think its foolish to think that the WMA were invoked simply to deal with the FLQ.

The goal was also to tame Quebec's nationalism and to assert federal authority over the population of Quebec by using the army.

That of course utterly failed given the sucess of the PQ afterward, and the rest of the story up until today. But still It was a time where people were arrested based on their political opinion, based of what kind of books they were reading, etc...

[fishhead06]

@unab84 Okay, you want to get into this on a way deeper level than the comments section of a video allows. Suffice to say, I know Bourassa asked for intervention. What we know FOR SURE is that Trudeau and his government felt that this would address the presenting issue. Trudeau said that this was to address the violence, and we know that purely police-oriented solutions had not worked to stem it in the past. Violence was getting worse, not better. Anything else about motive is pure speculation.

[gytarok]

VIVE LE QUEBEC LIBRE

[jmay2002]

I love the fact that the one dude was smoking in the building. The good old days LOL!!!

[itchyocho]

yeah that guy is rene levesque--never heard of him?

[jmay2002]

I am actually not from Canada but just try to keep up with whats going on! So I don't know every figure.

[jobloe3393]

You watch historical videos from 1981 to keep up with what is going on?

[jmay2002]

No, I was referring to that fact I did not know who Levesque was!

[iMARTIEN]

@jmay2002

Apart the fact you could be against or in favor of the separation of Québec, looking in René Lévesque's political career will make you discover one of the greatest politician Canada has produced.

His realizations are major progress for democracy: fairness in electoral financing, child rights, consumer protection, security at work, universal insurance for drivers, etc... the list is very long!

He served as a Liberal minister 1960-66 and the 1rst PQ's Prime minister 1976-85.

[crazyforcanada]

@iMARTIEN - Gee wiz, and ONLY a so-called "separatist" could have done these things. In fact, a LOYAL politician could have done them, too, without attacking Canada. LEVESQUE's goal was to impose the European Union system in PLACE of Confederation. Provincial governments in Canada have NO SUCH POWER, neither does the FED. The referendums have been a SCAM to do it, manipulating separatist sentiment. See blogspot dot com at habeascorpuscanadacomments for the REAL news on this.

[snowstormcan]

Brampton Billy at 0:11 also has a handsome looking pipe pursed between his lips.

[siriuslynow]

LOL THE PIPE.

[LeGermQC]

Bla bla bla....

[jaworskij]

Creating the Charter of Rights was one of the worst things Canada ever did. It really set us back.

[g1a1r1y3]

How do you mean?

[sgk1967]

I'm curious to know why....

[ispyonu20]

I am reading a book about it!! trudeau should've followed the Pepin-Robarts Task Force in 1977...

[siriuslynow]

Yeah, erm. Okay buddy. :/

[KiNPiN1835]

lolcanada

[inagabs]

This is thebest Canadian Footage ever in Politics- Alan - J on the left- Chertien onthe Right- oh god- the days-smoke another cig-rene

ashley m.i. (ps-congrats- justin)