Post hoc, ergo propter hoc

[observer9670]

Bartlet lost Texas despite having a running mate who was a Senator from Texas. IRL, the last time a major party VP nominee lost his home state was 1996, when Jack Kemp's home state, New York, was won by Clinton-Gore.

[BlokenArrow]

@FreeMan549 Actually, they have had more than 43 occupy the position. The 25th Amendment, Section 3 has been invoked 3 times: once by Reagan and twice by George W. Bush. In the latter case, both time Dick Cheney assumed the office of President for less than a day.

Also, Zachory Taylor refused to take the oath of office on a sunday, so David Atchison was Acting President for a full day in 1849.

But, most people would never know this becasue they learn history at a public school.

[jesusthroughmary]

@BlokenArrow David Atchison was not President. Zachary Taylor was President as of noon on 4 March 1849, he simply could not execute the powers and responsibilities of the Presidency until the next day.

[UncleMikeNJ]

C.J., you know that line you're not supposed to cross with the President? Look behind you.

I like having a President who can speak Latin. Better yet, I like having a President who can speak English.

[AlderaanBoy]

@FreeMan549 Yeah, and Wilson was a well-documented racist. What's your point?

[Th4w]

@xKTxRodgers Yes.



[cmhsepeefencer]

I would point out that the translation is wrong. hoc translates to "this" not "it." In Latin the word "it" is "id" and the resulting conjugation of the pronoun. Still loved the Latin use in this series! Awesome show and great scene1

[mrzipdisk]

lol in real life josh would have know this

[EragonAnimator]

Please enable embedding - I need this clip for a blog post on the post hoc, ergo proctor hoc fallacy.

[metallicarox80s]

For you Texas haters. try reading a reputable source (Money Magazine, Forbes). Texas is home to:

*nation's 3 fastest growing major cities (Houston, Austin, San Antonio)

*#1 nation's "must-see suburb" (The Woodlands)

*#1 safest city in the nation (Plano)

*#1 wealthiest small town (Westlake)

*#1 major city for shopping (Houston)

*3 of the most prominent public universities (Rice, Texas, Texas A&M)

*#1 business-friendly state

[jhartvu]

@metallicarox80s Last time I checked, Rice was quite private.

[metallicarox80s]

@jhartvu Thank you for the correction; I must have typed "public" in there accidentally, since 2/3 of those universities are.

[Megnificentx]

what movie is this?

[jamie32501]

@Megnificentx Its the tv series West Wing - Episode 2 of Season 1, I believe

[hollywoodwerewolf]

C.J. is great

[singingpraise16]

"You know when we lost Texas?"

"When you learned to speak Latin?"

"Go figure,"

ROFLMAO

[woohooboy]

PRESIDENT BARLETT: "CJ on your tombstone, it's gonna read Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc......."

CJ (confused): "OK, but none of my visitors are going to be able to understand my tombstone!........."

Years later, that line along with many others still cracks me up laughing!.......

Long live "The West Wing!" :)

[jamesboake]

Joke about terrorism already! Bipartisan jokes! Jk.

[Winterwolf00]

I wonder what Texan's reaction would be if our new president =spoke Arabic. Lol.

[ipekatomang]

@Winterwolf00 it could be one.... well..... errr....hhhmm.....ugghhh

....errrr..gosh , it's too hard to even imagine it. .

[lovelymissjess]

@Winterwolf00 I would jump up and cheer.

[bertomeister]

Could you please allow embedding again? I use this video in a slideshow presentation as a tool to teach my students critical thinking, but the video won't play now. Thanks!

[hitch4645]

how is it that Bradley Whitford hasn't gotten a good TV job since studio 60? is aaron sorkin the only guy who knows how to write for him? he's amazing, I'm astonished he isn't bigger in this business

[serendipity375]

@hitch4645 He's actually on a Fox show called "The Good Guys" now. He looks completely different, it took me a couple of minutes to figure out it was him.

[hitch4645]

@serendipity375 I know, I've seen it. It can't compare with anything he's done with Sorkin though. I was pretty disappointed with the show.

[Marbash0312]

@hitch4645

He's in a series called "The Good Guys" now. As an old school police detective in the modern age. It's not GOOD, but it's ok I guess. I think that Bradley used his talent more in TWW and Studio 60

[HotPiratesWench]

"when you learning to speak latin?"

[sketin]

I don't see any horns on George W. Bush...

[squeaky00]

boy cj had some old lady hair do in the first season

[malawiandan]

The West Wing at its best. I've seen this clip so many times that I've even spotted the continuity error. @0:39 ish - there has to be a problem if you take off and put glasses on that many times.

[andyt2k]

@malawiandan Haha nice spot

[alohahands]

A post hoc fallacy claims one thing causes another when there is some sort of correlation. However, these conclusions are normally drawn after the fact and the two things may have occurred sequentially, but are not in a relation of causation.

Example: Every time I eat cereal in the morning, the Cubs win. Therefore, if I eat cereal this morning, the Cubs will win.

The above example is fallacious because there is no relevance between cereal eating and the Cubs winning.

[cedricphizeme]

@alohahands Dude thank you so much, you just helped me in a group project by explaining it and giving the example (started Critical Thinking and Problem Solving class today and so far its a good class)

[alohahands]

@cedricphizeme You are welcome. I finished the Critical Thinking class with a 97.5% Not too shabby, right? If you need any other help, let me know. I'll help if I'm able.

[cedricphizeme]

@alohahands lol not shabby at all man.. i love the class so far and the professor makes it cool

[UncleMikeNJ]

I miss this show. I wish Josh had gone down to the NICS offices at the Navy Yard to talk to Abby Sciuto. I wish C.J. had gone down to whatever part of D.C. "Bones" is filmed in and talked to Sweets.

[hitch4645]

josh is amazing in this

[LinusandSally]

Look at Sam smirk at CJ at 0:46.

[r5t6y12]

Except that most of these people (if not all) couldn't have told you themselves what Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc means if you had asked them 2 days before they read the script for the 1st time

[ShortStackB5]

I love the look between Leo and Josh.  Leo just owns the moment.

[theforeman118]

it's also worth noting that later it's understood President Bartlet won Texas in the general because of Hoynes. little error there :)

[deir712]

I thought so yes... it was a joke. that's why i did not understand the info and the comments of this clip.

[zhudson]

He's not calling Texans stupid, though he is implying that they are anti-intellectual. Texans are typically proud and anti-elitist. They value the plain-talking man-of-the-people image, and see Bartlett (and Latin, and a PhD from an English university) as elitist.

[grumpytosnowwhite]

Well, all the same, it would sure be construed as calling them stupid ;) good thing he said it safely in his office.

[tribalinsight]

It's because Texans wouldn't elect a President who spoke Latin... George W. Bush is from Texas (need I say more?).

[TheBongoFrenzy]

@tribalinsight and I suppose you went to Harvard and Yale too?

[neaseech]

@tribalinsight Geroge W. Bush isn't from Texas, he's Texan because he's the governor.

[tribalinsight]

@neaseech Okay. Happy to be corrected - although he did live in Texas when he was Governor, didn't he? So wouldn't that make him from Texas?

[mjsamuelson]

@tribalinsight He also grew up in Texas, and he hasn't been governor since 2000.

[neaseech]

@tribalinsight yup, it's only a bit of an irony that he takes on a Texan accent since he wasn't born in Texas. But hey, somehow he become President didn't he... :(

[lovelymissjess]

@tribalinsight Texas is one of seven states with no personal income tax. Of the seven (TX, AK, FL, NV, SD, NH, TN), only Alaska and Texas have any notable involvement in the oil business. Texas has more voting power, by about 15x. Guess why they relocated from the Northeast. Bush won the 1994 gubernatorial race against Richards partly because he promised the bubbas their concealed handgun licenses. Education wasn't as compelling, sadly. We drag our knuckles around here sometimes.

[hansellius]

@lovelymissjess If there are people who can see the problem, and can outline it so eloquently, then there is always hope.

[lovelymissjess]

@hansellius Thanks. Doing the best I can out here in the trenches. It's tough to be a progressive and a feminist in this state, but dammit if I'm not going down swingin'.

[hansellius]

@lovelymissjess You're welcome. If it helps (and I'm sorry if this is stereotyping your state, country, or people) then i think the inbreeding will kill them fairly soon.

It's not much better anywhere else, though. Sic vita est.

[ramorrissey]

@tribalinsight Well, he likes to think of himself that way. I guess cheerleaders from Andover don't mind big hats.

But Ann Richards was also a Texas governor, so I tend to think that the State has plenty of redeemable qualities.

[IsraeliGasMask]

@tribalinsight "From Texas" is an implication of residency prior to government. I haven't made any particular effort to research George W. Bush, but it is to my understanding that he was in some form of governing position prior to going to Texas.

Additionally, moving to Mexico does not make you Mexican, nor Japanese if to Japan.

[tribalinsight]

@IsraeliGasMask Interesting logic going on here. Mexico and Japan are countries. Texas is a state of the USa, and I would think that someone who lived in Texas would be able to call themselves Texan, regardless of the birthplace.

[IsraeliGasMask]

@tribalinsight But wouldn't that make that someone primarily UnitedStatsian? And using this logic that you have stated, Anyone who visits Texas is a Texan.

[topgear100]

@tribalinsight he worked in texan oil businesses since 1975.......and since he speaks like a southern dickhead i think its fair to say he is a 'texan', despite being born in connecticut where he hasnt been for more than 30 years!!!!!!

[PeterFormaini]

@tribalinsight There's a difference between saying one is a 'Texan' (present condition) and as being 'from Texas' (which implies where one was born. The 'from' implies one is talking about where one was born.

[drbayoms]

@IsraeliGasMask

He was a resident of Texas LONG BEFORE entering Government.

[eyelash512]

@IsraeliGasMask He was raised in Texas with his siblings. He didn't leave Texas until high school,and after college promptly returned back to join the Texas Air National Guard. That would -- by just about any definition -- make him Texan. Perhaps you should put some effort into research before you reply next time.

[IsraeliGasMask]

@eyelash512 Admittedly, I did not have any research whatsoever in this particular instance, but I to believe the conversation has gone beyond the questioning of whether or not he was Texan to whether or not it is fair to call anyone who just happens to reside in Texas Texan. I understand that in this particular situation the man was, in fact, born in Texas, but it has moved on to the hypothetical, not the literal.

Perhaps you should realize this is an open comment section before you reply.

[mf9196]

@neaseech i'm not american so i don't know the rules but... don't you have to be from that state so you can be it's govoner

[megarockman]

@mf9196 well, you have to live IN the state in order to run for governor (or any public office for a given political division). Bush was born in Connecticut - he moved to Texas when he was a child.

[drbayoms]

@neaseech

GWB isn't from Texas? Really? His father GHWB married Barbara in 1945. He entered Yale that same year. GWB was born while GHWB was a Yale student. After GHWB graduated from Yale, the Bush family moved to Odessa, Tx in June of 1948. That means GWB was living in TX BEFORE he turned 2 years old. I think that more than qualifies him as a Texan. I apologize to all Texans.

[mjsamuelson]

@tribalinsight Lyndon B. Johnson was from Texas - born and bred in a tiny town north of Austin. Need I say more.

[deir712]

What I don't understand (for I'm a Dutchman): why did he loose Texas "because he learned Latin"? Is he calling Texanians stupid?

[acceptanceisbliss]

he doesn't "admit" he lost texas because he learned latin, that's just another joke that CJ makes. She says he lost texas because of the "silly hats" joke to which Bartlett replies, in latin, 'post hoc ergo propter hoc", meaning just because our loss came after the hat joke doesn't mean it was because of it. His reply "go figure" to CJ's joke is supposed to be ironic, not meant literally!.

[grumpytosnowwhite]

And yes he is calling Texans stupid. Unfortunately, a lot of them are stupid. It's not a stereotype -- it's one of those few stereotypes that are completely true.

[zhudson]

He's not calling Texans stupid, though his comment about Latin is quite apt. Texans (generally, of course) dislike anything seen as elitist. Bartlett lost Texas because he is a New England liberal PhD Nobel laureate from an old family--his speaking Latin is just part of this image.

[albertx2]

WOW !! Texas has no state tax and you call them stupid.

[Gwynne66]

Hmmm... I've spent a lot of time in Texas and I've paid taxes to the state of Texas while I was there... so I'm not sure what you mean when you say that Texas "has no state tax"... do you mean no state INCOME tax? That's as may be but it probably wouldn't surprise you to learn that the Texas state government finds other ways to tax people to get money to run the state.

[grumpytosnowwhite]

Texas is possibly the only acceptable target on earth that never is, never can be, and never will be anything else. :D Bartlet is great.

[shomuz16071980]

brilliant answer. Well done yanks, finally TV has served a purpose.