About time people learnt to fend for themselves and be responsible for their own actions. Drink a cup of cement and harden the fuck up.
Sick to death of working my butt off and paying shed loads of tax for people to use on welfare for their 10 kids and for people who cant be bothered to work whilst they have a lifestyle thats equal too or better than mine.
Socialism DOESN'T WORK! How the hell is it fair? Why should the successful be punished, and the unsuccessful be rewarded? It does not make sense.
We need smaller government, less taxes, less welfare, less government control and massive cuts to public spending, such as in the NHS and civilian cuts to police force.
Free market economy FTW - businesses would have to provide good services, otherwise they'd fail - self regulating. Not money laden public firms spunking cash up the wall.
You're all living in the past, or more like in fairyland. The 'destruction' of all those industries meant that protective tariffs were ended. That doesn't mean destruction, it means that British workers would produce goods in which they had a comparative advantage rather than sticking to certain things that can't sell on a free market. That would give them a greater market and make them richer. Secondly, the govt shouldn't have had £50 B for anyone, not banks, not individuals.
@pardeepsinghk Yep, that is talking sense! Whenever the state gets hold of things, and throws money at it, the people working have to incentive to run things efficiently, they are spending no-ones (taxpayers) money, with almost infinite resources, as the government can just pump money back in.
In free market economy, private businesses have to do well, have to treat customers well, have to run efficiently or they fail and collapse - it would be self regulating
And how can you so proudly claim, as Tomlinson does, to be against the 'free movement of capital and labour,' should we ban immigration and use FORCE to stop people using their property however they like, just because of spurious nationalism? If the economy should not be allowed to be honed by competition and free trade, then not only will we be denied the ability to buy cheaper goods from abroad, all because of bullying domestic industries who lobby for tariffs, but we'll maintain xenophobia!
Organised labour - trades unions- are an essential component of any democratic society. Your reference to individual "voluntary contract" is disingenuous. That would entail power being completely biased toward the employer.
Also, in my experience, it was management failures that led to that led to inefficiencies. Failure to invest, failure to manage production efficiently, failure to develop proper industrial relations with workers and their representatives.
You assert that: "Organised labour - trades unions- are an essential component of any democratic society" but how can you claim this if you don't define organised labour?
In my philosophy, trade unions are like States, and the more they act to coerce in order to raise their wages and reduce employment of others, the more they will ruin themselves-are we not weaned from trade unionism as we are weaned from Mercantilism?
Response 1=fail. Why? Because I'm not hopeless, I'm actually pretty knowledgeable about this sort of thing not that it's hard to be if you have any familiarity with economics.
Response 2=fail. You call that a definition? What do you mean 'further their interests,' how does that work? By them competing and trying to gain promotion or saving money so as to not need to work so much? No, by shit workers bullying others!
'currency and import controls' What; do you mean FREE TRADE, oh what tyranny!
We all have "familiarity with economics" as you put it. You haven't convinced me your an authority yet.
Your quite bitter really - as well as being pretty clueless about working life as your reply clearly demonstrates. But there's really no point in carrying on such a fritless discourse. So unless you can shape a coherent argument then it's ta ta from me fella!
I can praise myself all I like, not that I was since I was only saying that I have a sound grasp of these issues, as anyone does with a cursory knowledge in economics.
THe funny thing is, my arguments may not be coherent and they may be far too advanced for a trade unionist to understand but at least they are arguments, those things which do not seem present in your comments. I see no arguments. I see only that you consider coercive organisations that decrease our standard of living as legit!
Also, "free" movement of capital and labour is a tool used by capital to undermine wages /conditions. When Britain was able to legislate freely in this area -without EU diktat- and with currency and import controls there was mass immigration into/emigration from the country. Therefore your assertion that this would entail the "banning" of immigration is nonsense. Xenophobia has always been a weapon of the right wing used to stoke division, to divide and conquer - the SLP are opposed to this
OMG you're a member of the SLP are you? Credibility rating is off the charts, ma'am.
Xenophobia is entailed by trade unionist policies of protection (i.e. maintenance of current employment and working traditions) from a larger division of labour that might induce more specialisation and a growing economy, which cannot be hampered with force to keep bullying workers in jobs that don't make profits.
Xenophobia is implied in your commitment to maintaining national mores from industrial advances.
It's a shame to see that such a funny bloke as Tomlinson is still blowing the organised labour trumpet. So much blame must fall on the shoulders of trade unions-expensive, inefficient industry, vast government spending, bullying other workers to strike for higher wages at the cost of their employers, the whole economy and ultimately themselves-their coercion must end, their tariffs and tax and subsidies must no longer inflict the harm on society which is formed through voluntary contract.
I do agree with you but its not that simple. If we did 'punish' the Banks, America and Britain would have been in a much worse position. They need to Nationalise them.
If these actually had a chance of even getting some seats, I'd probably vote for them, but under the FPTP system its never gonna happen, the best chance they have is EU seats.
Shame since I agree with a lot of their policies. If they actually had a chance of getting in power I'd definitely vote for them,
Also the idea behind socialism is not to compete with your neighbors (like in the EU) but to complement each others industries. So for example if England produces aircraft and Spain produces cars the idea is to trade these goods in a way it will benefit both economies to protect jobs and local industry. But if you import cars from japan that cost half of cars manufactured in the UK you are destroying your country's economy so that the elite can profit from it.
21st century socialism is a system where the factories and other production facilities are shared in equal parts between the state and the workers, or the business owner and the workers. Contrary to free trade, the government applies a selective import restriction to some goods that jeopardize jobs in the country i.e. goods manufactured very cheap in China. Well, in a nutshell thats a new global consensus regarding 21st century socialism.
thanks for the reply, i quite like the socialist system, it seems fair, not to the point where anyone cant have any wealth (and as an added bonus, it protects british jobs). eveyone's a winner!!
What's wrong with a little appropriation? Wealth, created by all (and definitely NOT by rich parasites), should be shared around. That's what the tax system is for!
Sensible people on the left telling it like it is, a consensus between true socialists and nationalists alike in the cause of regaining our democracy , freedom and national sovereignty.
yes he did, but as he said he was young and naive and puts it down to a poor education, the creditable thing is he changed, which a lot of you right wing arse holes won't do, the british isles need socialism!!!!! " Without the power of the industrial union behind it, Democracy can only enter the state as the victim enters the gullet of the serpent" James Connolly, one of the founders of the party, it's time to bring in a party that helps pur industry, although it's too late for our proud miners
Labour, Socialist Labour, New Labour, Communist Party, New Socialist Party...........You're all the same. You lie, lie and lie again. Say anything to get a vote. The fact is that your are traitors to the British sovereign state. You attack the far right for their extreme views but you condone violence by supporting groups like UAF who use violence. Absolutely disgusting.
You are ALL so THICK! British socialism is NOT about state control or dictatorship, it never has been (with our long standing socialist governments and economy) its about being fare and equal. NOT leaving a six year old child to die from cancer cause they cant pay. NOT allowing pharamcutical companies to charge rediculous anounts for drugs that cost pennies to make. NOT giving tax money to bankers.
Right so if it is not about state control then why advocate the abolition of private property and enforced "equality"? The State of course and that is exactly what Marxists want, they oppose free enterprise
@krazykeys88 Yeah so line the pockets of the poor, and the failing industries with tax payers money, great idea! Oh yeah, while you're at it, build a few more hospitals to provide 'free' healthcare at enormous expense!
Non need to be protectionist, our country is great! Free market economy should be the answer, and less regulation - less taxing, less welfare. Let the people fend for themselves! If you want something, work for it
my god this isnt simple, its an extremely twisted arguement, some of the things that are said here are true, but the socialist answer of more government control is not the answer. of you leave people rather than governemtn in control you will never get economic stupidity because people act in their own self interests, why wouldnt scotland use its own reserves vecause of government laws such as minimum wage, government creates the problem then proposes the solution
"The left is back, and it's the only path we have to get out of the spot to which the right has sunken us. Socialism builds and capitalism destroys." - Hugo Chavez
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill
That is state capitalism. Socialism means the workforce control their own workplaces. Economic democracy. Yugoslavia were along the right lines. No bureaucracy required.
The point is there is no 'free trade'. Every developed nation arrived there through protection of infant industry. So called 'free markets' are actually what are imposed on developing nations so their resources can be stolen by the developed nations. Note China and India are strong enough to ignore IMF and neo-liberal diktat and are getting richer and richer, in compared to the poorest nations who are getting poorer and poorer. They, of course, are protecting their infant industries.
I dont believe we should withdraw from Europe, I believe in the free movement of labour and no tax barriers. Europe should not be something we withdraw from but something we seek to change and improve upon.
There are obvious problems, such as the immigration problem effecting our labour market. I believe this can be countered with a return to 100% unions so that no foreign worker is exploited by employees, nor could they choose to work at a lower rate and undercut the current workers. Also improved funding in education and training ensures the workers remain the best for the job and regardless of immigration as the best workers they remain in employment, thus giving a boost to the economy which...
I also believe in globalisation, membership of Europe and the chance to influence Europe with other left wing European parties in the European Parliament is a great way to bring positive change to the most powerful economic organisation outside the USA. Change will only come gradually and will only stick with collective support. I think the EU gives a stepping stone for this if used correctly.
I love it how people are only giving thumbs down to these comments because they're true, and they don't have the intelligence to answer with reasonable arguments.
Give an intellgent post and I'm sure you'd get one.
We live in an unfair system where the level of work is irrelevant when it comes to wage, it's a simple case of luck, with a post code and genetic lottery deciding how much you earn or the level of health care or education you get, not a person's commitment or work ethic.
You'll not see me backing socialism to the hills, but to say its unfair and bollocs shows a lack of understanding...
For the record I believe in a mixed economy. Based on private enterprise, cooperatives, publically owned public services (transport, water etc), an independent bank of England... I however believe that when a company gets to a market dominant size it's no better than a fascist system as too many resources are being controlled by one institution. I'm a fierce believer in helping the grass root sole traders and small businesses to galvanise the British economy.
One a purely practical level, the speakers were a little stiff and stuck rigidly to the script. The message is good, but the SLP will have to look a little more human if it wants to keep increasing its vote.
Bollocks. Ricky earns a living like us all - except for those New labour billionaire supporters and MP's. He's done serious time in prison as a political prisoner for fighting for basis trades union rights. New labour still refuse to release the true story,
I am in disagreement with this because you seperate yourself from the labour party. what you should be doing is taking back control of the labour party from the champagne socialist who hijacked it when the country was weak. all the original heads were systematically bumped off. lets bring them back and shoot the traitors who sold our country to the yanks with shit, those bastards.
'Labour is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labour, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration' - Abraham Lincoln
Sums up nicely why the idea that we need capitalists to create jobs or wealth is rather silly. They're unproductive parasites.
didnt vote for them because I vastly disagree on removing ourselves from the european union in order to protect our industrial and manufacturing labour. Because this is 2 steps backward and 1 step forward, socialism is not a push to recreate the industrial era but to create a society in which the idea of a meritocracy and equal values can exist and bring the wellbeing of every member of those living within it towards the same standard of good health, education and oppurtunity.
spaceinvader79: I guess socialism fixes these problems then, right? capitalism may be corrupt, but do you think socialism never corrupt? the problem lies in human nature, not capitalism. it is pretty much guaranteed that you will have corruption in any political system.
I dont want to turn this straight away into a youtube debate BUT (haha)
there are always people losing homes, children living in poverty, and elderly with financial difficulties. I agree as much as you that this is wrong but it doesn't become MORE of a problem when the gvt starts spending money elsewhere (as it must). As I said though, much rather this party than bnp or ukip but this time i voted lib dems.
My completely apolitical parents weren't even gonna vote until they heard Arthur Scargill's name- a bit before my time, but they remember him as the guy who was on their side against "that old bitch" Thatcher. Good luck SLP!
Hey Winston Churchill its Capitalism that is dead!! £50 billion to bail out the banks while people are losing their homes, children living in poverty, pensioners struggling to pay fuel bills. If that's the kind of society you want then you were obviously born with a silver spoon in your mouth.
Hey you just don't get it do you. In order to maintain jobs in the asset management industry the banks have to keep up a steady supply of property being repossessed. Any way no one forced them to take out mortgages in the first place did they?
I'm left wing, and this parties principles are in the right place but alot of this video is nonsense. You cannot blame our (rather high) 2.2 million unemployed on the phantom EU becaue it suits you. And really I struggle to see how the EU is at all responsible for the recession, that could much more truthfully be blamed on opponents in Britain. Also every minor party swears they would spend millions on baby incubators instead of [current party's failed project], but its a meaningless assertion.
We need to stay in the EU, if we leave the cost of trade with europe would rocket up. Also the pound would be worthless. ANd if we didnt bail out the banks A LOT of people would've lost their money, i voted Labour and i'm proud.
Can't post a link- google Ivory Coast 2005 slavery study. Lots of links.
In one country, one industry, one age group (9 to 12 year olds) they found 200,000 workers working 70-100 hours a week, for less than subsistence pay (no other home but the plantation, no escape you see), life-shortening conditions. 12,000 slaves by the technical definition.
The three biggest users of these plantations? Nestle, Mars, Hersheys. One age group, one country, one industry. Clothes, mining, food etc no better.
A surveillance society doesn't prevent crime, it simply displaces it. Labour are no way near 'quasi-socialist either'. Statistics show that in societies with lesser economic equalities, there is less crime, suicide, mental illness etc. Saddam was not a good man, but the US in particular didn't have a problem with Islamic fundamentalism when they were training the Mujahideen. The US has set up military dictatorships across the globe to prevent oppressed peoples from embracing socialism.
Except they tax the rich (50% if over 150,000) and not the poor to the same extent, and have brought about a quasi-communist surveillance society. Why do you think there are tax exiles? Intelligent hard-working people have had large amounts of tax imposed upon them- study the kulak class in stalinist russia.
I know they do, but why is a surveillance society 'quasi-communist'? I can see the parallels with Stalinism, but not libertarian communism. A surveillance society should be equated with authoritarianism, not any particular economic ideology.
Margaret Thatcher, Milton Friedman's biggest fan and adherent (after the Chilean Fascist Dictator Pinochet) is the main reason this country is in such a mess. Of course New Labour followed on with Thatcher's policies that's why you should
Define irony: a socialist using a venture-capital-funded platform (YouTube) now owned by a billion-dollar multinational company (Google). One of the many reasons why I won't vote for these jokers.
They may have their failings but some have outlasted capitalism.
Oh, and the NHS... It may not be a country, but it's socialist, free health care for all and I think you find that most social medical systems are the envy of the rest of the world.
kingof themods89. One can only assume you've never visited China? I used to live there, and I can inform you that we have better Socialist policies here, right now, in the UK. Education and health are not free in China. If you're poor in China you're in dire straits. I currently live in S.Korea and am aware of N.Korean policies. Being poor in N.Korea or China could result in a very short life. Do not confuse communism with socialism.
What a great broadcast. The only one I have heard talking about Socialism.
Ecomony in crisis, MP's who should be in the jail - the only answer is Socialism - a system who institutions represent and are democratically controlled by and accountable to the people as a whole.
Yes, you could waste your vote on these protectionist, outdated, hard-left socialists, or you could vote for a party that can achieve something. If you want real change in Europe, vote Liberal Democrat or Green - they can and do get elected, hold the balance of power (i.e. their votes are usually essential in getting legislation passed) and usually vote in a sane way, in the interests of working people. When will these socialists learn that Governments can't and shouldn't control everything?
There's no "power" in the EU parliament. It can't propose legislation.
The Lib Dems, whose noses are in the trough just like New Labour, Tories, SNP et al, voted for the multi £billions bank bailout. A complete waste of our money. Thousands losing their homes and jobs, pensioners and millions of children slipping deeper into poverty and your worried about the balance of power in a hollow institution.
Tthe Greens are apolitical. What we need is socialist state intervention.
The "main" parties support is crumbling as consequence of their perceived corruption by the great majority of the British people. There has never been a better opportunity for progress for a principled party like the Socialist Labour Party.
The SLP are right: this could be "one of the most important elections since WW2". A chance for a new broom!
In every village, town and city are memorials with the names of fathers, sons, brothers who fought and died to defeat Fascism. This needs to be remembered when casting your vote on June 4th.
This is an extremely effective broadcast, and makes sense, but I still think that UKIP is the best way to send a clear, concise message to the Lib Lab Con.
1. Recent years prove the futility of this type of factional approach to political organisation. eg respect, ssp etc
2. What is NO2EU position in reality? Some want withdrawal and some want US of EU.
3. NO2EU is a temporary organisation set up to oppose the Lisbon Treaty and will not take up seats. Fair enough. Yet some are talking about "a new workers' party"! Is honesty and principle an issue within NO2EU?
Some people in NO2EU see it as having the potential to develop into a working-class challenge to Labour, some see it as more limited. What's dishonest and unprincipled about that?
"On the basis of the democratic control of working people over the economy and society, there can be real solidarity and partnership between European workers of all countries, in a socialist united states of Europe."
But the reality is that the EU is heading towards de facto full federalisation anyway and therefore to support continued membership is in fact to support a "US of EU".
The Socialist Party supports withdrawal from the European Union because it is a capitalist formation.
However, we're not isolationists and don't believe in 'building socialism in one country' so we support solidarity and partnership between workers in all European countries and across the world. That's basic socialist principles.
Do you think Britain should remain separate from the rest of the world?
It's not at odds with what's on our website at all. I've been an SP member for 5 years and each week on the back of our paper it's said 'no to the bosses EU'. We support withdrawal from the EU and building links with workers in other European nations. I don't think the SLP and NO2EU should both be standing since we agree on so much, it doesn't make sense.
Btw, the slogan 'Out of Europe and into the World' is from the 1975 anti-EEC campaign originally!
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Indeed he is. Like so many 'socialists'. All happy to spout their nonsense about 'worker's rights' when all they actually mean is protecting themselves and lining their own pockets. Socialism has always replaced one type of hierarchy with another - which usually ends up being more destructive and out of touch than that which preceded it. It's always about protecting obsolete jobs and ever higher incomes for 'the workers' - no thought for the impact this has on the 3rd world/environment.
From the campaign video I note they want to "bring back into public ownership all induistries and services that Tory and Labour governments have sold off".
MY question is: Do they incude the Private Prisons in their re-nationalisation programme?
So Socialist Labour Party, what is your position prison privatisation.
I await your responce with great interest. I bet you don't have the bottle to place your respose in print and in the public domain. That in itself would tell a story !
Over and above the issue of public provision of essential services and industries being being inherently more efficient and beneficial to the country as a whole the issue of private profit being sought from the incarceration of human beings is simply wrong and immoral.
Therefore the SLP is oposed to private prisons. Does that suffice?
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The joke is Britain already has a socialist/communist government. The new communists dont nationalise, they just work hand in glove with super companies that act in unison with the state.
A vote for socialism is a vote for more of the same, more destruction of our identity, more removal of freedom, more bleeding the nation dry.
Oh dear. let me guess, you didn't study history, political philosophy or economics, id you?
Here's a clue for you, socialists who don't believe in the common ownership of the means of production aren't called socialists; they're called capitalists.
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Well Fuckwit, strange name but whatever floats your boat.
If you bothered to notice no socialist country has ever been able to make the fucked up idea of socialism work, cos it's complete bollocks, so as with China now, they have had no alternative but to embrace a portion of capitalist ideals but still rooted firmly in the idea of absolute state control and internationist communism. Multinationals are perfect bedfellows for the new commies, creating slaves to the system as they do.
If you had a clue about history you would realise that the socialist countries were all doing fine until the fascist/capitalist counter-revolutions. I would cite the Spanish republic as an example of true libertarian socialism genuinely working, particularly in the Anarchist and POUM strongholds. But then there was the fascist coup, supported by the capitalists who were afraid of their "property rights" being violated.
State control is not a communist position. Stalin wasn't a communist. The
communist position is that the state is taken over by the workers and used to defeat the counter-revolution, then abolished to make was for workers' cooperatives and mutual aid agreements.
State control is the Fascist position. It is understood that the only way to protect class privelige is to use the power of the state to crush any move for reform or revolution.
Great insult by the way, "I know you are so what am I?" Last time I heard that one was in the playground at primary school.
TheSpineyOne: There's often confusion with the distinction between communism and socialism. Most communists countries deny democracy, and yet many democracies have socialist policies. The fact remains that someone will always want the power - it's human nature. Personally, I'm all for localised govt whenever possible. Socialism and helping your fellow man should be encouraged not forced. China and N.Korea have impoverished poor people.
The USSR (Post Lenin), China and North Korea all claimed to be socialist. So socialism must be bad as they are opressive, totalitarian regimes. The full name for North Korea is, "The Decocratic People's Republic of North Korea." So democracy must also be opressive.
My point? Just because a regime claims to be socialist don't make it so.
Socialism is workers control; the state is a tool for the workers. In those countries it was state control; the workers were a tool of the state.
rundogz is right. the new left use large corporations in place of nationalisation. Easy to control, no troublesome unions (and a nice 'directorship' waiting for ministers). They cant wait until all small independent businesses are in the hands of the corporations.
rundogz is wrong. Tthe large corporations are owned by the superwealthy and they are not usually leftwing to say the least.
The process of monopolisation does take place (though maybe not in the fashion you allude to) where the big fish swallow or undermine the smaller fish. That's why there is an anti-monopoly commission (or whatever it's called). Marx described this process in detail 150 years ago!
Yes it is an excellent broadcast with undeniable truths. The economic growth of the past several decades has meant zilch to millions throughout Europe and the single currency has further impoverished those invisible to the main stream politicians.
The European Union and free market capitalism ... MY ARSE!
38dragoon38 6 months ago
Interesting.
dantastic15 11 months ago
All true socialists would oppose the EU and it's totalitarian globalist agenda. Forget left and right it's about freedom or slavery.
2001perseus 1 year ago
About time people learnt to fend for themselves and be responsible for their own actions. Drink a cup of cement and harden the fuck up.
Sick to death of working my butt off and paying shed loads of tax for people to use on welfare for their 10 kids and for people who cant be bothered to work whilst they have a lifestyle thats equal too or better than mine.
summ0004 1 year ago
Too bad they never got a seat, they got about 100,000 votes which is good for a party like theirs
Cena60793 1 year ago
I'd like to stand for the slp in Skem,
any suggestions on how to start
PHILRAWS 1 year ago
Socialism DOESN'T WORK! How the hell is it fair? Why should the successful be punished, and the unsuccessful be rewarded? It does not make sense.
We need smaller government, less taxes, less welfare, less government control and massive cuts to public spending, such as in the NHS and civilian cuts to police force.
Free market economy FTW - businesses would have to provide good services, otherwise they'd fail - self regulating. Not money laden public firms spunking cash up the wall.
jjintheuk 1 year ago
These people are living in the past.
The state shouldn't control any industry (apart from the shitty useless banks).
State interference means low productivity, waste, lack of accountability, lack of choice, no wealth creation etc.
I say this as a Labour voter...we need to focus monies on health and education!
pardeepsinghk 1 year ago
@pardeepsinghk
You're all living in the past, or more like in fairyland. The 'destruction' of all those industries meant that protective tariffs were ended. That doesn't mean destruction, it means that British workers would produce goods in which they had a comparative advantage rather than sticking to certain things that can't sell on a free market. That would give them a greater market and make them richer. Secondly, the govt shouldn't have had £50 B for anyone, not banks, not individuals.
Nintendomanwill 1 year ago
@pardeepsinghk Yep, that is talking sense! Whenever the state gets hold of things, and throws money at it, the people working have to incentive to run things efficiently, they are spending no-ones (taxpayers) money, with almost infinite resources, as the government can just pump money back in.
In free market economy, private businesses have to do well, have to treat customers well, have to run efficiently or they fail and collapse - it would be self regulating
jjintheuk 1 year ago
Not too big a fan of New Labour, preferred Old Labour. Maybe these are worth the vote? I'm not sure
Earthling86 1 year ago
And how can you so proudly claim, as Tomlinson does, to be against the 'free movement of capital and labour,' should we ban immigration and use FORCE to stop people using their property however they like, just because of spurious nationalism? If the economy should not be allowed to be honed by competition and free trade, then not only will we be denied the ability to buy cheaper goods from abroad, all because of bullying domestic industries who lobby for tariffs, but we'll maintain xenophobia!
Nintendomanwill 1 year ago
Organised labour - trades unions- are an essential component of any democratic society. Your reference to individual "voluntary contract" is disingenuous. That would entail power being completely biased toward the employer.
Also, in my experience, it was management failures that led to that led to inefficiencies. Failure to invest, failure to manage production efficiently, failure to develop proper industrial relations with workers and their representatives.
Daisy12630 1 year ago
You assert that: "Organised labour - trades unions- are an essential component of any democratic society" but how can you claim this if you don't define organised labour?
In my philosophy, trade unions are like States, and the more they act to coerce in order to raise their wages and reduce employment of others, the more they will ruin themselves-are we not weaned from trade unionism as we are weaned from Mercantilism?
Nintendomanwill 1 year ago
I did define "organised labour" - the term you used. It's workers combined in trades unions to further their interests collectively.
Daisy12630 1 year ago
Response 1=fail. Why? Because I'm not hopeless, I'm actually pretty knowledgeable about this sort of thing not that it's hard to be if you have any familiarity with economics.
Response 2=fail. You call that a definition? What do you mean 'further their interests,' how does that work? By them competing and trying to gain promotion or saving money so as to not need to work so much? No, by shit workers bullying others!
'currency and import controls' What; do you mean FREE TRADE, oh what tyranny!
Nintendomanwill 1 year ago
Self praise is no flattery.
We all have "familiarity with economics" as you put it. You haven't convinced me your an authority yet.
Your quite bitter really - as well as being pretty clueless about working life as your reply clearly demonstrates. But there's really no point in carrying on such a fritless discourse. So unless you can shape a coherent argument then it's ta ta from me fella!
Daisy12630 1 year ago
I can praise myself all I like, not that I was since I was only saying that I have a sound grasp of these issues, as anyone does with a cursory knowledge in economics.
THe funny thing is, my arguments may not be coherent and they may be far too advanced for a trade unionist to understand but at least they are arguments, those things which do not seem present in your comments. I see no arguments. I see only that you consider coercive organisations that decrease our standard of living as legit!
Nintendomanwill 1 year ago
And if you really disagree with this assertion of mine, that "their tariffs and tax and subsidies" must end, then you're hopeless.
Nintendomanwill 1 year ago
Or maybe it's you that's hopeless!
Daisy12630 1 year ago
Also, "free" movement of capital and labour is a tool used by capital to undermine wages /conditions. When Britain was able to legislate freely in this area -without EU diktat- and with currency and import controls there was mass immigration into/emigration from the country. Therefore your assertion that this would entail the "banning" of immigration is nonsense. Xenophobia has always been a weapon of the right wing used to stoke division, to divide and conquer - the SLP are opposed to this
Daisy12630 1 year ago
OMG you're a member of the SLP are you? Credibility rating is off the charts, ma'am.
Xenophobia is entailed by trade unionist policies of protection (i.e. maintenance of current employment and working traditions) from a larger division of labour that might induce more specialisation and a growing economy, which cannot be hampered with force to keep bullying workers in jobs that don't make profits.
Xenophobia is implied in your commitment to maintaining national mores from industrial advances.
Nintendomanwill 1 year ago
It's a shame to see that such a funny bloke as Tomlinson is still blowing the organised labour trumpet. So much blame must fall on the shoulders of trade unions-expensive, inefficient industry, vast government spending, bullying other workers to strike for higher wages at the cost of their employers, the whole economy and ultimately themselves-their coercion must end, their tariffs and tax and subsidies must no longer inflict the harm on society which is formed through voluntary contract.
Nintendomanwill 1 year ago
I agree about we should not have bailled out the banks and getting out of the EU.
ThePAULOPABLO 1 year ago
I do agree with you but its not that simple. If we did 'punish' the Banks, America and Britain would have been in a much worse position. They need to Nationalise them.
joejjohnston 1 year ago
If these actually had a chance of even getting some seats, I'd probably vote for them, but under the FPTP system its never gonna happen, the best chance they have is EU seats.
Shame since I agree with a lot of their policies. If they actually had a chance of getting in power I'd definitely vote for them,
Cena60793 1 year ago
Vote Socialist Labour Party for a real alternative.
Policies all fully costed too.
weemagicstane 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Check out ( JOHN MCCULLAGH "ILL DANCE ON YOUR GRAVE MRS THATCHER"........on youtube or myspace,well worth a listen
LARRSON77 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
left wing sucks..... VOTE TORY
angus0991 2 years ago
Im a Libertarian conservative
WHICH MEANS IM VOTING UKIP
EurocratsComeNotHere 2 years ago
Google Government Infiltration by Brian Gerrish
karuspery 2 years ago
Also the idea behind socialism is not to compete with your neighbors (like in the EU) but to complement each others industries. So for example if England produces aircraft and Spain produces cars the idea is to trade these goods in a way it will benefit both economies to protect jobs and local industry. But if you import cars from japan that cost half of cars manufactured in the UK you are destroying your country's economy so that the elite can profit from it.
Revolucionario02 2 years ago
can someone please explain the basics of socialism?
thanks
0ct0parr0t 2 years ago
@0ct0parr0t
21st century socialism is a system where the factories and other production facilities are shared in equal parts between the state and the workers, or the business owner and the workers. Contrary to free trade, the government applies a selective import restriction to some goods that jeopardize jobs in the country i.e. goods manufactured very cheap in China. Well, in a nutshell thats a new global consensus regarding 21st century socialism.
Revolucionario02 2 years ago
@Revolucionario02
thanks for the reply, i quite like the socialist system, it seems fair, not to the point where anyone cant have any wealth (and as an added bonus, it protects british jobs). eveyone's a winner!!
0ct0parr0t 2 years ago 2
I agree wholeheartedly!
UKSazzy67 2 years ago
That sounds more like protectionism rather than socialism.
NatDemUK 2 years ago
@0ct0parr0t...Socialism involves stealing people's property and 'fairly distributing' it among the lower classes.
kratzenburg 2 years ago
What's wrong with a little appropriation? Wealth, created by all (and definitely NOT by rich parasites), should be shared around. That's what the tax system is for!
weemagicstane 1 year ago
socialist labour party forever!!
seafortha 2 years ago
i dont care who wins between green, lib or labour as long as its not torys.. or even in a worst case scenario nick griffin and his gentlemans club.
PdishmonkeyJJ 2 years ago 2
Sensible people on the left telling it like it is, a consensus between true socialists and nationalists alike in the cause of regaining our democracy , freedom and national sovereignty.
9wolfy9 2 years ago
yes he did, but as he said he was young and naive and puts it down to a poor education, the creditable thing is he changed, which a lot of you right wing arse holes won't do, the british isles need socialism!!!!! " Without the power of the industrial union behind it, Democracy can only enter the state as the victim enters the gullet of the serpent" James Connolly, one of the founders of the party, it's time to bring in a party that helps pur industry, although it's too late for our proud miners
trojanskinhead23 2 years ago 2
Labour, Socialist Labour, New Labour, Communist Party, New Socialist Party...........You're all the same. You lie, lie and lie again. Say anything to get a vote. The fact is that your are traitors to the British sovereign state. You attack the far right for their extreme views but you condone violence by supporting groups like UAF who use violence. Absolutely disgusting.
maxiboy666 2 years ago
You are ALL so THICK! British socialism is NOT about state control or dictatorship, it never has been (with our long standing socialist governments and economy) its about being fare and equal. NOT leaving a six year old child to die from cancer cause they cant pay. NOT allowing pharamcutical companies to charge rediculous anounts for drugs that cost pennies to make. NOT giving tax money to bankers.
krazykeys88 2 years ago 8
Marxism/ State socialism is about state control and dictatorship but British
Democratic Socialism is not, I agree, as there are some good aspirations.
NatDemUK 2 years ago
Marxism is not about state control. Marx stood for the complete opposite. Stalin ruined socialism for everyone.
StrayGator 2 years ago
Right so if it is not about state control then why advocate the abolition of private property and enforced "equality"? The State of course and that is exactly what Marxists want, they oppose free enterprise
NatDemUK 2 years ago
@krazykeys88 Yeah so line the pockets of the poor, and the failing industries with tax payers money, great idea! Oh yeah, while you're at it, build a few more hospitals to provide 'free' healthcare at enormous expense!
Non need to be protectionist, our country is great! Free market economy should be the answer, and less regulation - less taxing, less welfare. Let the people fend for themselves! If you want something, work for it
jjintheuk 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@krazykeys88 Are you talking about Communism?
BritishBroom 1 year ago
my god this isnt simple, its an extremely twisted arguement, some of the things that are said here are true, but the socialist answer of more government control is not the answer. of you leave people rather than governemtn in control you will never get economic stupidity because people act in their own self interests, why wouldnt scotland use its own reserves vecause of government laws such as minimum wage, government creates the problem then proposes the solution
sony8877 2 years ago
Socialism cant make anything look good
goughrmp 2 years ago
LOSERS
goughrmp 2 years ago
FUD
weemagicstane 2 years ago
From "We Only Want the Earth" by James Connolly...
Some men, faint-hearted, ever seek
Our programme to retouch,
And will insist, wheneer they speak
That we demand too much.
Tis passing strange, yet I declare
Such statements give me mirth,
For our demands most moderate are,
We only want the earth.
Daisy12630 2 years ago 4
"The left is back, and it's the only path we have to get out of the spot to which the right has sunken us. Socialism builds and capitalism destroys." - Hugo Chavez
Daisy12630 2 years ago 2
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill
DystopianUtopia 2 years ago
"public" ownership means STATE ownership. it means the BUREACRATS CONTROL IT YOU MORONS
mike8903 2 years ago
That is state capitalism. Socialism means the workforce control their own workplaces. Economic democracy. Yugoslavia were along the right lines. No bureaucracy required.
alewisuk 2 years ago
Is this from the onion? Cause it's a total joke. Yes people trading freely with who would fucking want that???(sarcasm)
mike8903 2 years ago 2
The point is there is no 'free trade'. Every developed nation arrived there through protection of infant industry. So called 'free markets' are actually what are imposed on developing nations so their resources can be stolen by the developed nations. Note China and India are strong enough to ignore IMF and neo-liberal diktat and are getting richer and richer, in compared to the poorest nations who are getting poorer and poorer. They, of course, are protecting their infant industries.
alewisuk 2 years ago 3
down with capitalism! Time for a red revolution
RedStar279 2 years ago
I dont believe we should withdraw from Europe, I believe in the free movement of labour and no tax barriers. Europe should not be something we withdraw from but something we seek to change and improve upon.
stdomingoesfc 2 years ago
There are obvious problems, such as the immigration problem effecting our labour market. I believe this can be countered with a return to 100% unions so that no foreign worker is exploited by employees, nor could they choose to work at a lower rate and undercut the current workers. Also improved funding in education and training ensures the workers remain the best for the job and regardless of immigration as the best workers they remain in employment, thus giving a boost to the economy which...
stdomingoesfc 2 years ago
directly helps the workers.
I also believe in globalisation, membership of Europe and the chance to influence Europe with other left wing European parties in the European Parliament is a great way to bring positive change to the most powerful economic organisation outside the USA. Change will only come gradually and will only stick with collective support. I think the EU gives a stepping stone for this if used correctly.
stdomingoesfc 2 years ago
I love it how people are only giving thumbs down to these comments because they're true, and they don't have the intelligence to answer with reasonable arguments.
socialismisbollocks 2 years ago
Give an intellgent post and I'm sure you'd get one.
We live in an unfair system where the level of work is irrelevant when it comes to wage, it's a simple case of luck, with a post code and genetic lottery deciding how much you earn or the level of health care or education you get, not a person's commitment or work ethic.
You'll not see me backing socialism to the hills, but to say its unfair and bollocs shows a lack of understanding...
stdomingoesfc 2 years ago
For the record I believe in a mixed economy. Based on private enterprise, cooperatives, publically owned public services (transport, water etc), an independent bank of England... I however believe that when a company gets to a market dominant size it's no better than a fascist system as too many resources are being controlled by one institution. I'm a fierce believer in helping the grass root sole traders and small businesses to galvanise the British economy.
stdomingoesfc 2 years ago
One a purely practical level, the speakers were a little stiff and stuck rigidly to the script. The message is good, but the SLP will have to look a little more human if it wants to keep increasing its vote.
samsonlovesyou 2 years ago
wrong- the message is shit.
socialismisbollocks 2 years ago
And if NL are so socialist, then why is every left-wing party sick of them?
JAMcreations 2 years ago
Toryboi - Why would you say that about the working class?
scargillista 2 years ago
fuck the "working" class
toryboi 2 years ago
Discussion and debate is good. Make your views known and they can be discussed.
However. Abusive and racist comments will be removed.
spailpin1902 2 years ago
How can Tomlinson moan about the privitisation of the utilities when he's done adverts for British Gas?!?! What a hypocrite.
UKLablon 2 years ago
Bollocks. Ricky earns a living like us all - except for those New labour billionaire supporters and MP's. He's done serious time in prison as a political prisoner for fighting for basis trades union rights. New labour still refuse to release the true story,
BTW what bread do you eat?
Daisy12630 2 years ago 3
I am in disagreement with this because you seperate yourself from the labour party. what you should be doing is taking back control of the labour party from the champagne socialist who hijacked it when the country was weak. all the original heads were systematically bumped off. lets bring them back and shoot the traitors who sold our country to the yanks with shit, those bastards.
jaffijaffer 2 years ago
Take the next step - JOIN THE SOCIALIST LABOUR PARTY.
spailpin1902 2 years ago
I voted for yous in Midlothian
rossjfraser 2 years ago 3
i'll vote 4 sosialism in Greece
polowst 2 years ago 2
You better mean KKE not pasok, PASOK is socialist only in name.
IIThesaviour 2 years ago
well KKE is comunist and NOT sosialistic.
PASOK is turnig to the left again.
polowst 2 years ago
I voted for you in wigan. Cmon!!!
bynot1 2 years ago 4
I voted for you Ricky, yesterday. C'mon Scargill! SLP FTW!!!!!
PaddyBRocks 2 years ago 4
I Snubbed Labour for SLP and will keep on voting for this party until the day i die!! Labour are just as bad as the Tories these days.
ROBOK2K7 2 years ago 10
I hate capitalists.
biglzz 2 years ago
Taxing the rich seems a good idea to me. Vote Socialist Labour X
biglzz 2 years ago
Thats of course until the rich decide to move abroad and set up their business elsewhere, leaving more people unemployed.
I assume the government can hire those people to dig holes, and then fill them up again right?
roflcopter2006 2 years ago
'Labour is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labour, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration' - Abraham Lincoln
Sums up nicely why the idea that we need capitalists to create jobs or wealth is rather silly. They're unproductive parasites.
alewisuk 2 years ago 2
didnt vote for them because I vastly disagree on removing ourselves from the european union in order to protect our industrial and manufacturing labour. Because this is 2 steps backward and 1 step forward, socialism is not a push to recreate the industrial era but to create a society in which the idea of a meritocracy and equal values can exist and bring the wellbeing of every member of those living within it towards the same standard of good health, education and oppurtunity.
chumpusmaximusohnose 2 years ago
spaceinvader79: I guess socialism fixes these problems then, right? capitalism may be corrupt, but do you think socialism never corrupt? the problem lies in human nature, not capitalism. it is pretty much guaranteed that you will have corruption in any political system.
DEVILNBEANS 2 years ago
shit point, socialism is intrinically bollocks and unfair. lol.
socialismisbollocks 2 years ago
I dont want to turn this straight away into a youtube debate BUT (haha)
there are always people losing homes, children living in poverty, and elderly with financial difficulties. I agree as much as you that this is wrong but it doesn't become MORE of a problem when the gvt starts spending money elsewhere (as it must). As I said though, much rather this party than bnp or ukip but this time i voted lib dems.
cptm90 2 years ago
My completely apolitical parents weren't even gonna vote until they heard Arthur Scargill's name- a bit before my time, but they remember him as the guy who was on their side against "that old bitch" Thatcher. Good luck SLP!
Mike6SC 2 years ago 2
cptm90 your not a left winger.
scargillista 2 years ago
Hey Winston Churchill its Capitalism that is dead!! £50 billion to bail out the banks while people are losing their homes, children living in poverty, pensioners struggling to pay fuel bills. If that's the kind of society you want then you were obviously born with a silver spoon in your mouth.
scargillista 2 years ago
Hey you just don't get it do you. In order to maintain jobs in the asset management industry the banks have to keep up a steady supply of property being repossessed. Any way no one forced them to take out mortgages in the first place did they?
DEVILNBEANS 2 years ago
This party is a joke. Socialism is dead.
churchillwinstonspen 2 years ago
I'm left wing, and this parties principles are in the right place but alot of this video is nonsense. You cannot blame our (rather high) 2.2 million unemployed on the phantom EU becaue it suits you. And really I struggle to see how the EU is at all responsible for the recession, that could much more truthfully be blamed on opponents in Britain. Also every minor party swears they would spend millions on baby incubators instead of [current party's failed project], but its a meaningless assertion.
cptm90 2 years ago
Just voted.
Vote for what you believe in.
Vote for the Socialist Labour Party
scargillista 2 years ago
Time for change in the interests of working people.
Vote Socialist Labour X
weemagicstane 2 years ago
Who's "we"?
weemagicstane 2 years ago
Name me a country were communism or extreme socialism has worked. I don't know about you but I'm struggling.
Extreme Left (or Extreme Right for that matter) policies don't work,
JoshuaB543 2 years ago
fair.
socialismisbollocks 2 years ago
Just voted for the only socialist party standing everywhere in Britain - the Socialist Labour Party that is of course.
You've still got time. Polls don't close till 10pm.
Vote SLP
weemagicstane 2 years ago
I just voted um! Come on people, they make sence!
alsum501 2 years ago
4 o clock.
6 hours left to vote.
VOTE SOCIALIST LABOUR PARTY X
spailpin1902 2 years ago
We need to stay in the EU, if we leave the cost of trade with europe would rocket up. Also the pound would be worthless. ANd if we didnt bail out the banks A LOT of people would've lost their money, i voted Labour and i'm proud.
mlake1243 2 years ago
Can't post a link- google Ivory Coast 2005 slavery study. Lots of links.
In one country, one industry, one age group (9 to 12 year olds) they found 200,000 workers working 70-100 hours a week, for less than subsistence pay (no other home but the plantation, no escape you see), life-shortening conditions. 12,000 slaves by the technical definition.
The three biggest users of these plantations? Nestle, Mars, Hersheys. One age group, one country, one industry. Clothes, mining, food etc no better.
Mike6SC 2 years ago
Anyone else having trouble getting comments to show?
Mike6SC 2 years ago
A surveillance society doesn't prevent crime, it simply displaces it. Labour are no way near 'quasi-socialist either'. Statistics show that in societies with lesser economic equalities, there is less crime, suicide, mental illness etc. Saddam was not a good man, but the US in particular didn't have a problem with Islamic fundamentalism when they were training the Mujahideen. The US has set up military dictatorships across the globe to prevent oppressed peoples from embracing socialism.
JAMcreations 2 years ago
Except they tax the rich (50% if over 150,000) and not the poor to the same extent, and have brought about a quasi-communist surveillance society. Why do you think there are tax exiles? Intelligent hard-working people have had large amounts of tax imposed upon them- study the kulak class in stalinist russia.
socialismisbollocks 2 years ago
I know they do, but why is a surveillance society 'quasi-communist'? I can see the parallels with Stalinism, but not libertarian communism. A surveillance society should be equated with authoritarianism, not any particular economic ideology.
JAMcreations 2 years ago
Margaret Thatcher, Milton Friedman's biggest fan and adherent (after the Chilean Fascist Dictator Pinochet) is the main reason this country is in such a mess. Of course New Labour followed on with Thatcher's policies that's why you should
VOTE SOCIALIST LABOUR X
scargillista 2 years ago
You are a breath of fresh air. Thank you comrade.
humphreys10000 2 years ago
"The world runs on individuals persuing their seperate interests".
Milton Friedman.
SabreTerreeblay 2 years ago
Friedman got us into this mess
lewisbell 2 years ago
I have been searching for a party whos policies really speak to me and at last I have found one.
I will be voting for the Social Labour Party tomorrow!
Good luck to everyone standing in the euro elections.
matt1784 2 years ago 2
Polls open 7am tomorrow.
VOTE SOCIALIST LABOUR PARTY X
spailpin1902 2 years ago
Agreed, I am voting UKIP, so is all my family and many of my friends.
zannagalv 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
British Flags Torn Down In Favor Of Foreign Ones
Nativity Plays Banned Because They Upset Ethnic Minorities
Celebrating Foreign Cultures Instead of Our Own
The Politically Correct wish to destroy our way of life, it is now Racist to be British and Proud of it.
Only the BNP will end Mass Immigration and make us Proud to be British again.
Labour, Liberals & Tories are the Problem, not the Solution.
Vote BNP on June 4th for Real Change
GenuineVoiceOfReason 2 years ago
So would you do away with the NHS if given the chance?
vulnerabledonkey 2 years ago
UKIP little englanders can't see past the end of their noses.
Vote for a Socialist alternative to the economic disaster facing us.
VOTE SOCIALIST LABOUR PARTY
scargillista 2 years ago
Dont throw your vote away on these left wing jokers.
VOTE UKIP ON JUNE 4th!
AWY44 2 years ago
Define irony: a socialist using a venture-capital-funded platform (YouTube) now owned by a billion-dollar multinational company (Google). One of the many reasons why I won't vote for these jokers.
tk1488 2 years ago
i would vote for them if i could
12345OUFC12345 2 years ago
Cuba?
China?
North Korea?
They may have their failings but some have outlasted capitalism.
Oh, and the NHS... It may not be a country, but it's socialist, free health care for all and I think you find that most social medical systems are the envy of the rest of the world.
kingofthemods89 2 years ago
They may have their failings? LOL
kingof themods89. One can only assume you've never visited China? I used to live there, and I can inform you that we have better Socialist policies here, right now, in the UK. Education and health are not free in China. If you're poor in China you're in dire straits. I currently live in S.Korea and am aware of N.Korean policies. Being poor in N.Korea or China could result in a very short life. Do not confuse communism with socialism.
GIW2009 2 years ago
What a great broadcast. The only one I have heard talking about Socialism.
Ecomony in crisis, MP's who should be in the jail - the only answer is Socialism - a system who institutions represent and are democratically controlled by and accountable to the people as a whole.
I will be voting for the Socialist Labour Party.
scargillista 2 years ago
You've got my vote :)
spankysmagicpiano 2 years ago
Good luck !
1.The so-called European elections are actually EU elections (Norway,Switzerland etc.also belong to Europe)
.
2.The elections are not democratic : In a real democracy every vote has the same weight.
38,000 votes are needed in Luxemburg to chose an MEP. In Germany the number of votes needed is 628,000.
3.Europeans were never asked if they wanted an EU parliament & an un-elected legislative.
4.Most Europeans (in recent polls) do NOT WANT the EU to be given more power.
Spenner56 2 years ago 3
Yes, you could waste your vote on these protectionist, outdated, hard-left socialists, or you could vote for a party that can achieve something. If you want real change in Europe, vote Liberal Democrat or Green - they can and do get elected, hold the balance of power (i.e. their votes are usually essential in getting legislation passed) and usually vote in a sane way, in the interests of working people. When will these socialists learn that Governments can't and shouldn't control everything?
sgshields 2 years ago
There's no "power" in the EU parliament. It can't propose legislation.
The Lib Dems, whose noses are in the trough just like New Labour, Tories, SNP et al, voted for the multi £billions bank bailout. A complete waste of our money. Thousands losing their homes and jobs, pensioners and millions of children slipping deeper into poverty and your worried about the balance of power in a hollow institution.
Tthe Greens are apolitical. What we need is socialist state intervention.
VOTE SLP
Daisy12630 2 years ago
The "main" parties support is crumbling as consequence of their perceived corruption by the great majority of the British people. There has never been a better opportunity for progress for a principled party like the Socialist Labour Party.
The SLP are right: this could be "one of the most important elections since WW2". A chance for a new broom!
VOTE SOCIALIST LABOUR PARTY next Thursday.
weemagicstane 2 years ago
Comment removed
GIW2009 2 years ago
The nazi brutes 'n suits are out in force tonight. Must be a full moon. I've had to remove a few odious comments.
Anyway they're not getting away with posting their vile racist propaganda here.
No platform for the racists.
spailpin1902 2 years ago
I've just read that you're for the withdrawal from the EU (which is good). If you were to summarise, why should I vote for you instead of UKIP?
GIW2009 2 years ago
i'm voting TORY LOL
NOT!!! hope the tories die!!
Rossmeister13 2 years ago
Well Done the guy for removing the racists' comments.
VOTE SOCIALIST LABOUR PARTY
Daisy12630 2 years ago 3
In every village, town and city are memorials with the names of fathers, sons, brothers who fought and died to defeat Fascism. This needs to be remembered when casting your vote on June 4th.
weemagicstane 2 years ago 6
This is an extremely effective broadcast, and makes sense, but I still think that UKIP is the best way to send a clear, concise message to the Lib Lab Con.
strafford3 2 years ago
Yeah, if you want ineffective nonsense, UKIP is definitely the better bet.
I'm split between SLP, No2Eu and Green, I want nothing to do with xenophobic idiots.
mewshkin 2 years ago
Should vote NO2EU, the first time a trade union has backed an independent political challenge in about a century in the UK!
duncanmoney 2 years ago
Three issues arise with NO2EU:
1. Recent years prove the futility of this type of factional approach to political organisation. eg respect, ssp etc
2. What is NO2EU position in reality? Some want withdrawal and some want US of EU.
3. NO2EU is a temporary organisation set up to oppose the Lisbon Treaty and will not take up seats. Fair enough. Yet some are talking about "a new workers' party"! Is honesty and principle an issue within NO2EU?
Vote SOCIALIST LABOUR PARTY on June 4th.
spailpin1902 2 years ago
Who wants a United States of Europe in NO2EU?
Some people in NO2EU see it as having the potential to develop into a working-class challenge to Labour, some see it as more limited. What's dishonest and unprincipled about that?
duncanmoney 2 years ago
From SPEW's website:
"On the basis of the democratic control of working people over the economy and society, there can be real solidarity and partnership between European workers of all countries, in a socialist united states of Europe."
But the reality is that the EU is heading towards de facto full federalisation anyway and therefore to support continued membership is in fact to support a "US of EU".
spailpin1902 2 years ago
The Socialist Party supports withdrawal from the European Union because it is a capitalist formation.
However, we're not isolationists and don't believe in 'building socialism in one country' so we support solidarity and partnership between workers in all European countries and across the world. That's basic socialist principles.
Do you think Britain should remain separate from the rest of the world?
duncanmoney 2 years ago
Well that's news to me. And at odds to your website.
The rest of what you say is identical to the position of the SLP. Hence the Socialist Labour slogan of "Out of Europe and into the World".
Have you actually watched the broadcast?
spailpin1902 2 years ago
Yeah of course I watched the broadcast!
It's not at odds with what's on our website at all. I've been an SP member for 5 years and each week on the back of our paper it's said 'no to the bosses EU'. We support withdrawal from the EU and building links with workers in other European nations. I don't think the SLP and NO2EU should both be standing since we agree on so much, it doesn't make sense.
Btw, the slogan 'Out of Europe and into the World' is from the 1975 anti-EEC campaign originally!
duncanmoney 2 years ago
And it's been the position of the SLP since 1996.
The rest of what you say goes to the heart of the question as to the way forward. Hence my original point 1.
spailpin1902 2 years ago
Comment removed
eupel1 2 years ago
Tomlinson's an old hypocrite ain't he, he's done ads for the privatised British Gas
stanleykneecap 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Indeed he is. Like so many 'socialists'. All happy to spout their nonsense about 'worker's rights' when all they actually mean is protecting themselves and lining their own pockets. Socialism has always replaced one type of hierarchy with another - which usually ends up being more destructive and out of touch than that which preceded it. It's always about protecting obsolete jobs and ever higher incomes for 'the workers' - no thought for the impact this has on the 3rd world/environment.
sgshields 2 years ago
Cheers mate, you're mistaking me with someone who gives a shit about what your opinions are, try a Fox News page. They're easily impressed
stanleykneecap 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I agree. Hitler was the best. Long live the fuhrer.
GarethKennedyLlanrws 2 years ago
Definitely gonna vote for these!
mcrwill 2 years ago
An excellent broadcast.. Principled, rational policies well put.
VOTE SOCIALIST LABOUR PARTY ...
Daisy12630 2 years ago
From the campaign video I note they want to "bring back into public ownership all induistries and services that Tory and Labour governments have sold off".
MY question is: Do they incude the Private Prisons in their re-nationalisation programme?
So Socialist Labour Party, what is your position prison privatisation.
I await your responce with great interest. I bet you don't have the bottle to place your respose in print and in the public domain. That in itself would tell a story !
10shop 2 years ago
Over and above the issue of public provision of essential services and industries being being inherently more efficient and beneficial to the country as a whole the issue of private profit being sought from the incarceration of human beings is simply wrong and immoral.
Therefore the SLP is oposed to private prisons. Does that suffice?
weemagicstane 2 years ago
Ah, and interesting and concise reply, and I thank you for that.
The responce pleases me as I also feel that profit should not be gained from the misery (sic) of others.
There of course remains only one further qualification Mr. weemagicstane;
Could you tell me what position you hold within the SLP to speak on their behalf?
I thank you for your time and concise reply.
Lenny G
Liverpool
10shop 2 years ago 2
10shop
I've followed the short discussion between yourself and weemagicstane. I would endorse weemagicstane's answer to your original question.
I'm a candidate and also an NEC member of the SLP.
Best wishes.
spailpin1902 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The joke is Britain already has a socialist/communist government. The new communists dont nationalise, they just work hand in glove with super companies that act in unison with the state.
A vote for socialism is a vote for more of the same, more destruction of our identity, more removal of freedom, more bleeding the nation dry.
Rundogz 2 years ago
Oh dear. let me guess, you didn't study history, political philosophy or economics, id you?
Here's a clue for you, socialists who don't believe in the common ownership of the means of production aren't called socialists; they're called capitalists.
Fuckwit.
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago 4
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Well Fuckwit, strange name but whatever floats your boat.
If you bothered to notice no socialist country has ever been able to make the fucked up idea of socialism work, cos it's complete bollocks, so as with China now, they have had no alternative but to embrace a portion of capitalist ideals but still rooted firmly in the idea of absolute state control and internationist communism. Multinationals are perfect bedfellows for the new commies, creating slaves to the system as they do.
Rundogz 2 years ago
If you had a clue about history you would realise that the socialist countries were all doing fine until the fascist/capitalist counter-revolutions. I would cite the Spanish republic as an example of true libertarian socialism genuinely working, particularly in the Anarchist and POUM strongholds. But then there was the fascist coup, supported by the capitalists who were afraid of their "property rights" being violated.
State control is not a communist position. Stalin wasn't a communist. The
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
communist position is that the state is taken over by the workers and used to defeat the counter-revolution, then abolished to make was for workers' cooperatives and mutual aid agreements.
State control is the Fascist position. It is understood that the only way to protect class privelige is to use the power of the state to crush any move for reform or revolution.
Great insult by the way, "I know you are so what am I?" Last time I heard that one was in the playground at primary school.
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago 2
TheSpineyOne: There's often confusion with the distinction between communism and socialism. Most communists countries deny democracy, and yet many democracies have socialist policies. The fact remains that someone will always want the power - it's human nature. Personally, I'm all for localised govt whenever possible. Socialism and helping your fellow man should be encouraged not forced. China and N.Korea have impoverished poor people.
GIW2009 2 years ago
The USSR (Post Lenin), China and North Korea all claimed to be socialist. So socialism must be bad as they are opressive, totalitarian regimes. The full name for North Korea is, "The Decocratic People's Republic of North Korea." So democracy must also be opressive.
My point? Just because a regime claims to be socialist don't make it so.
Socialism is workers control; the state is a tool for the workers. In those countries it was state control; the workers were a tool of the state.
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
rundogz is right. the new left use large corporations in place of nationalisation. Easy to control, no troublesome unions (and a nice 'directorship' waiting for ministers). They cant wait until all small independent businesses are in the hands of the corporations.
jollyboble 2 years ago
rundogz is wrong. Tthe large corporations are owned by the superwealthy and they are not usually leftwing to say the least.
The process of monopolisation does take place (though maybe not in the fashion you allude to) where the big fish swallow or undermine the smaller fish. That's why there is an anti-monopoly commission (or whatever it's called). Marx described this process in detail 150 years ago!
VOTE SOCIALIST LABOUR PARTY X
weemagicstane 2 years ago
Absolute drivel. Like a really bad comedy show.
wowfabgroovy 2 years ago
Yes it is an excellent broadcast with undeniable truths. The economic growth of the past several decades has meant zilch to millions throughout Europe and the single currency has further impoverished those invisible to the main stream politicians.
humphreys10000 2 years ago
Some typical reactions here. Just exactly what the present parties in parliament, private and public companies WANT you to think!
eyejaysea 2 years ago