Navy OCS 12-98 Dungeon Drill Practice Part I

[baberaider18]

My dad went to Navy OCS in 1969. He graduated in 1970 and became an Ensign in the South Vietnamese Navy.

[our4blessings]

I became a PAO for the Navy following OCS in 1997 and retired in 2008. Currently working as the PIO for the Bossier Sheriff's Dept, and I work closely with our Young Marines program which makes an incredible difference in the lives of young people - my 10-year-old son is a recruit in his 6th week of 13 weekends of training. A volunteer instructor is First Sgt. Cedric Donald, a former DI, and he does a remarkable job. You'd be so impressed with the program!

[our4blessings]

First Sgt. Crouch, this brought back some incredible memories. I remember that dungeon well.  As I was watching, I noticed the other person passing by, and upon reading your notes here, I realized it was who I thought it was, my class drill instructor, GYSGT Woolet, United States Marine Corps! I was a proud graduate of Class 21-97 and have thoroughly enjoyed these videos. I actually wrote you about a year ago. We run a Young Marines program here at the Sheriff's Dept.



[S1lv3rdo7]

Good catch at 0:35. That's the type of stuff that saves lives.

[wilkersonfights]

dang that looks so fun!!

[toucansam3]

Who are the drill instructors? I think I recognize the one in the BDUs.

[crouchje]

GYSGT John Crouch is teaching, GYSGT Todd Woolett walked by. 1998

[toucansam3]

@crouchje Are you GYSGT Crouch? GYSGT Woolett sounds familiar, I had GYSGT Burleson. I remember GYSGT White too.

[crouchje]

Yes, the one and only First Sergeant John E. Crouch, USMC retired

[crouchje]

Yes, the one and only First Sergeant John E. Crouch, USMC retired. I locked on Major Scott Burleson. Guess you didn't know he got a commision did you?

[toucansam3]

@crouchje He got a commission? I'm kind of surprised, seemed like he was born to be a DI. I hate to admit it, but I was a DOR. I really had no business being there, I didn't get the MOS I wanted and basically did it because I had nothing better to do. But I regretted quitting so much, I did become and Air Force officer eventually. As I was leaving after my DOR, I left a bottle of cognac on the DI steps with a note: "Dear GYSGT Burleson, have a drink on me. Sincerely, A Friggin' Individual".

[crouchje]

I am glad you got your commission but in regards to your gift on the steps...OUTSTANDING performance on your part. The note was the best!

[crouchje]

I know you meant it as a compliment. I left in Feb 98'. The only DI I know of present when I left fitting a small stature was SGTMAJ Doyle Braddy. He was a GYSGT at the time.

[Ilnoscopedjfk]

wait so even marine officers go through the navy's ocs?

[crouchje]

No, Marine Officer Candidates go through Quantico VA. Navy Officer Candidates used to go through Pensacola FL but the school moved to Newport RI in 2007.

Marine DI's have trained the Navy aviators from 1947 - 1994.

In 2004 Navy OCS merged with the AOCS school and kept the Marine DI. Since 1994 every naval officer comissioned through Navy OCS has been Marine Corps trained.

[Ilnoscopedjfk]

@crouchje Ahh cause my friend told me before he left that Marine officers go through the navy, but when I checked I got confused. Thank you very much

[vk732]

i know this may seem out of place, but do any south Asians go through ocs?

[crouchje]

The U.S. Military takes all nationalities from friendly nations and if the applicant passes a background check and is found qualified for military service.

[nagolbrown]

1SgtCrouch, why is there a long pause after each of the "all present" roll call responses?

[crouchje]

I am simulating the exact timing of the four count present sword that I must execute as a return salute to each squadleader.

[nagolbrown]

@crouchje i see. its amazing how many little things that go on during drill. Its mind blowing what you do for a career. Thank you for your service and dedication to making others ready to serve as well

[BenAliGtor]

Still don't understand why, when I was in OCS at Quantico, I would have been quarterdecked for addressing an SI as "sir"("I am not a 'SIR'!! I EARN my pay!!'), and yet these Navy ladies and gentlemen address their DI as "sir".

I had great NCO instructors, though. All Nam vets who had stuck with the Corps through some pretty tough times when society as a whole did not appreciate the military, much less the Corps, as it does now.

[crouchje]

Because future Marine Commissioned Officers will sit on promotion boards, or have other meaningful and important duties that can affect your career does the Marine OCS program not allow for many of the methods used at Navy OCS. Those naval officers will never have the ability to affect our career. Navy OCS at my time period had eleven weeks of hell and two weeks of being treated like an NCO at the end. It worked well for us.

[BenAliGtor]

@crouchje That makes perfect sense, and I thank you for the prompt and honest reply.

I'd like to believe that any Marine who pins on the bars would be saavy enough to realize that the NCOs who employed less than diplomatic means during pre-commisioning training were professionals doing their best, and never employ duty on a promotion board as a means for settling a score, but I've lived long enough to know that anyone can be petty and vindictive.

[ninjapuhleez]

1Sgt Crouch, is it true that you disguised yourself as a candidate, got your head shaved bald with them as a "poopie", gaining their trust, and then later surprised them as they found out you were their DI? Also, are you the one that hid in someone's unsecured locker and scared the **** out of them when they returned from wherever they were? Believe it or not, the stories from OCS that we've experienced are still talked about in the fleet! Thanks for serving!

[crouchje]

While the four candidates were on their racks doing pushups during the wallocker inspection during outpost, MGYSGT Jerry Holtry who is 6 ft 4 in stepped inside the wall locker and one of us D.I.'s shut the locker door. After we all left the room and slammed the hall door shut, the candidates were recovering from the shock of it all when one of them opened their locker door at which time the big green monster started his verbal attack. He told us the candidate made an unusual sound as he fell.

[crouchje]

As for disguising myself as a candidate and infiltrating them to gain their trusts, I always wanted to but it never occurred on the first day as apparently told. I have on occasion slipped into the ranks during the dark hours in PT gear early in training to remind them the D.I. is everywhere at the moment I snap on them and kill the whispering social party. I did hide in the halls at the school house and drop out of the tree near the F4 Phantom which hung over the sidewalk you marched under.

[evangeletto]

These videos are great. Gives a good insight into what military drill is all about.

[RaidingWindmills]

That was intense just watching it.

[Hsoj48]

yeah. paying attention has got to be a challenge.

[prsturm]

Got-damn it's nice to see a DI in three-tone again. Much gratitude for First Sgt. Crouch.

Cpl. Sturm ('98-'03)

OEF/OIF too much to count

[maxwalsh92]

looks sharp Gunny. i wish i had control of my Sea Cadets like that!

[SemperFi995]

sharpest drill i've seen from any navy types... how does the current OCS compare with Aviation OCS from back in the day? that is what my dad went through in the early 80's.

[crouchje]

AOCS was more intense because there were no Navy Chiefs in the program, several of the class officers were Marines and the PT program was more intense. I am basing this off the wisdom of MGYSGT Holtry who served as a D.I. at AOCS in the mid 1980's and returned to Navy OCS 1996-1999. He saw both programs, probably one of the only one's who can honestly assess that other than 1stsgt Erwin and SGTMAJ Poynter.

[03gun]

why practice indoors?

[crouchje]

It is dark outside because the sun has yet to come up. I used to have my candidates up, dressed and rifle in hand at 0515 every morning to get in extra drill time. Plus, durind daylight it may be too hot for conduct of close order drill outside, such as 90 degrees or higher.

[salcedo111m]

was that a marine???

[crouchje]

Yes, Marines Drill Instructors train the Navy officer candidates at OCS

[82drumhead]

This may be a silly question, but why do Marines train Navy candidates? Why dont Navy NCO's train them?

[crouchje]

The Navy asked the Marine Corps in 1947 to do the military indoctrination to those pursuing an aviation career to flush out those who could not handle stress. In 1994 they merged aviation and surface Navy OCS and kept the Mairnes because the aviation element felt we were too critical to mission success.

[82drumhead]

Ahh, I see. I have a couple other questions if thats ok?

So do Marines train Navy enlisted persons too or is that just for officers? Also, I am a Staff Sergeant with the USAF (no chairforce jokes please) and I had pondered the idea of becoming a Military Training Intructor (M.T.I. for the AF. Any pointers or advice?

[robnum1]

so how do you originally show them how to do these drills?

[crouchje]

You break down the whole movement into small steps or elements of a movement, just like martial arts. Then focus on correctness for each portion or element of a movement. After hours of repetition, you begin creating fluid movements that eventually will be performed without interruption. The platoon recites aloud ditties to create rhythm/timing. Eventually even spoken words cease and only the sound of bones contacting the rifle are heard.

[texasusa05]

You said "ditties". I remember hearing that at MCRD......"SAY MY FUCKING DITTIES, SHIT CAN!!!!!!!"

[ialarmu]

Impressive display of discipline despite being practice. I'd be scared shitless.

[donletidiotruinurday]

i understand, but how in JROTC we do it different. we have a special count and it all has to be together... even the snappin of the heads.

[crouchje]

People, let's keep this in perspective. It was practice. After a couple weeks, I allow them to check their position after each move automatically. If you want to judge them, watch the Drill Comp videos I & II. The only score that counts is competition day, what you did before grading is irrelevant!

[donletidiotruinurday]

idk, it looks like its wrong... 4 year of NJROTC here so i have a lot of attention to detail... j/w if thats how its supposed to be.

[donletidiotruinurday]

yeah, and there a buncha ppl moving their eyes. also, question, when you do close and extend, aren't you supposed to be looking forward at the same time... like the element? because it looks like there is no count to it.

[collegboy1]

No they did everything right surprising for Navy candidates. Not as sharp as they should be but correct.

[crouchje]

Head and eyes are supposed to be in the direction of march. After facing to the front on line, then snap head to the right to get alignment. If the guide, you look at the 1st squad leader to get alignment on him / her.

[lonewolf22447]

3:05 watch the eyeballs one was looking at his rifle broke position of attention.

[jtreynol]

Yes. I'm a pilot from his the 02-98 class. I'm sure that there are more of us. It was interesting to hear GySgt Crouch's voice for the first time since Fall 1997.

[garneroutlaw]

LOL that must suck.

[Aggiesgigem]

Wonder if any of them ended up being pilots :) cool to think about.