Plus(!) he says he wants to have an "Intelligent" discourse with you (his own words). Yet(!) he is very insulting & condescending in his approach. These jtf apes are all like that. Block him, end it. Duncha waste ya time sista.
To davkakach - I don't think we can have a decent chance of exchanging views over this retarded system utube has. Be it known however, all PAST historians, learned men can argue from dawn to dusk, THAT is why things are the way they are right now! Enough, I've enough of this. If others wish to continue, that's their choice.
ps: Sash, I know. I am wondering too. Perhaps I should just disable the comments :/
Hey L, check that retard's comment on my vid. Sasha's right. This retard is a JTF nut, there is no effing way to talk to these apes. They still worship the ground kahane walks and he talks about "useful idiots"lol!
ps: that translation in the pm & I agree with Sasha, end the misery.
I am lousy at the language. I have said this in my first video. I'm not a sabra. I'm american born & educated. I speak hebrew but a little bit. If you wish to have an exchange in hebrew, see my friend in my list, Sasha aka Bluefieryfeline or Blackwidow43 aka Steffanie. Both are in my profile comments.
This is to all your comments. Your arguments here DO NOT make or will NOT make any difference to peace in the ME. Why? Because it has been said many many MANY times by those from your camp!! My point is, 60 over years, what now??! Maintain everything as it is?? Do YOU even get the POINT these gerls are saying??
Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem.
Existence of the other people. You see, this is where ppl like you don't get it. Whether palistine exist or not, is already settled. THEY EXIST. THEY are there, now, this very minute. WHAT Israel is doing is genocide. Your arguments will NOT make the palis go away. They are already here to stay. DEAL with it pleaseee!
In a March 31, 1977 interview with the Amsterdam-based newspaper Dagblad de Verdieping Trouw, PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhse'in said:
The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese.
Your ignorance is surpassed only by your conceit. You are a typical leftist product of the American "educational" system. Have you read anything besides Edward Said's drivel? Have you studied the Qur'an, the Hadith and the Sira? Have you read Snouck Hurgronje, Henri Lammens, Arthur Jeffery, David Hume, John Wesley, John Quincy Adams, Alexis de Tocqueville, Winston Churchill, André Malraux, Andrew Bostom, Robert Spencer, Ibn Warraq, Walid Shoebat?
MY conceit? MY Ignorance?? Whoa, spunk me a few names & tt makes ya an Intellect huh? Sweets, you don't know me, NOT that I care anyway. Fact is, all these years what has SELF-LOVING ZIONIST Israel achieved with regard to the Palestinian issue?? Oh wait, don't tell me. There is no Palestine...yeah, yeah. Right mr. professor ;)
"From the end of the Jewish state in antiquity to the beginning of British rule, the area now designated by the name Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries..."
- Professor Bernard Lewis, Princeton University
"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not." -- Professor Philip Hatti, Arab historian to the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, 1946
There is nothing "confused" on their part. There is absolutely nothing mentally-disturbed or "ignorant" about them. The ones suffering from such grand delusions are ones like you davkakach. You still believe that to suppress the liberty of the Palis will fortify Israel. If that is the case, why is living in constant fear never ending?
Do not quote me any of those books/authors. I am old enough, read quite a bit davkakach. Whilst I may not be 100 years old, I think I've lived long enough to see that the past & current policies have never worked. "The more brutal the oppresion, the more desperate the opposition" has been shown to be very true all these years, you fool.
You are a dishonest coward and an intellectual midget. You didn't have the guts to display any of my quotes. And BTW, those quotes aren't from any books and they are not mere opinions; three of them were said by Arabs. You exhibit typical leftist Bolshevik fascism, censoring the truth and spreading lies and propaganda. You learned from your leftist mentors in college well. I repeat my question: What have you read besides books by the Islamic apologist Edward Said?
coward? him? me? and you're brave one and smart one too? yeah, right..right again, LOL. All comments are displayed. ONLY comments containing profanities, vulgarities and plain ad-hominem attacks are stopped.
Okay, I apologize for accusing you of censoring my quotations --- I found them on the previous page. I am also not happy about resorting to ad hominem attacks against you. I would LIKE to engage in an orderly, intellectual debate with you, but I doubt you are capable of me. I would like to be proven wrong. Before I continue, I repeat (for the third time) my previous question: what have you read besides Edward Said? What are your sources?
I have never liked Said, fyi but Well, some are Norman Finkelstein's, Robert Fisk's articles, Noam's of course and my favorite, Emma Rosenthal among SOME...
You also missed what I am saying. What GOOD is all of Man's knowledge if Man cannot live in Peace?? Eons have passed and we are still behaving like animals?? Where is YOUR knowledge applied here???
Don't you think you should read other sources, besides Jewish and non-Jewish anti-Semitic tracts, to get a more balanced, unbiased, perspective on the Israeli-"Palestinian" issue? Whereas the texts you mentioned are secondary sources AT BEST (in reality, they are just opinions of individuals), I brought before you primary sources (quotations by Arabs and the minutes of U.N. committee hearings), yet you seem to be unimpressed.
I am actually NOT impressed by the Arabs, period. I have also such a high disdain for the Arab muslim leaders like Arafat or hussein etc etc INCLUDING our's like Sharon or Bibi.
Are you unimpressed by the Arab sources I brought before you, or are you unimpressed by Arabs in general? If it is the latter, does it not conflict with your belief in the values of humanism, rationalism and equality?
Unimpressed by Arab leaders. I have nuthin against muslims. I have muslim friends AND jewish ones. As for the sources, I'll put it this way. If history taught us no lessons at all, then I say those views, albeit 200 years old, is really of no consequence are they??
Please don't project your failure to learn from history to others. The fact that you believe, like so many others, that there is actually a "Palestinian" people, speaks volumes about your unfamiliarity with history. What if Emperor Hadrian didn't rename Judaea to Palestina (135 AD)? Would we be speaking today of the "Judean terrorists" instead of the "Palestinian terrorists"? Until the 7th century, there were no Arabs (or "Palestinians", as you call them) in the Land of Israel.
You ask, "What GOOD is all of Man's knowledge if Man cannot live in Peace??" Fair question. Why begin your bleeding heart idealistic quest for peace by attacking Israel (for trying to survive)? Why are you not troubled by the genocide against Black MUSLIMS in Darfur; female genital mutilation so widespread in the Arab Muslim world; "honor" killings and oppression of women in Islam; the practice of slavery in the Arab countries; mutilation as Shari'a punishment? Why backstab your own people?
Stab my own people? You JUDGED me by this ONE account?? Then what about these gurls here?? Are THEY stabbing their own?? To move forward, sometimes we just have to throw caution to the wind. I do what I can. A few of us here are members of some activist groups.
Also, to earlier remark about secondary sources. Mr. Robert Fisk spent over 30 years in international journalism, MORE than HALF of that in the ME. He is a very qualified person indeed.
I brought before you a list of renowned historians, politicians and philosophers who lived in the last 200 years, yet you ignore that, have no intention of exploring their writinsg, and instead cling desperately to the writings of a small, biased circle of individuals who are of the same opinion. What happened to "open-minded"? Why are you not impressed by the writings of Churchill and Adams, yet you worship Finkelstein? And you ARE stabbing your own people, by siding with their enemies.
Look, I may be young..(not that young at 27 alryt?) but that does not mean I don't know my history. I agree with Prof Phillip on Palestine BUT, BUT! the fact is they are here. There are many in Israel, many AROUND Israel. This is a fact. We have to deal with this and not keep saying there was NO Palestine etc etc.. It's done. They exist and we all need to COEXIST.
Yes, they exist, but they have 22 countries to choose from, and we have only one. Let them settle in "Jordan". 70% of "Jordanians" are "Palestinians", anyway. Why not initiate phase 2 of the exchange of populations (phase 1 began in 1948 when 800,000 Jews left the Arab countries and settled in Israel). We took in Jews from the Arab countries, let's give them Arabs from the Jewish country (just as with India-Pakistan, Greece-Turkey, and ethnic Germans in Czechoslovakia and Poland after WWII).
You brought before her "a list of renowned historians". Very well. Now, tell me brother, how advantageous the cause for peace is with views so staid, so unbending. Churchill and Adams are sadly, yesterday's men. We are here now, today. Today 60 sad years later, we are still at square one. If anything, war has never solved any problems. It indeed has caused MORE problems. You cannot have peace if you do not want to talk to your enemy. I am sure you know who said that or words to that effect.
Courage is needed for dramatic changes to take place. We're a people known for our courage, the world knows this. So why are we so AFRAID to learn to start making friends with the enemy? Why do we keep suppressing them and treating them with indignities?? Because they are murderers, killers? Would you NOT fight for what you think is yours too?? You would and that's why we are where we're at now, sadly.
EXACTLY! They think the land belongs to them. They are wrong. They have 22 other Arab countries to choose as home. If you are secular, of course you don't feel entitled to the land, but if you are religious, if you know that G-d promised this land to Jacob and his seed, then you do not suffer from guilt or moral confusion. THEY MUST GO. They do not belong in the land named after Israle, not Ishmael. Let these Arabs go back to the Arabian peninsula, whence they came originally.
When the British "drew" Israel, those palestinians IN Israel did not exist? they did. So NOW we must send them OUT TO JORDAN etc etc??? WHY MUST THEY CHOSE TO GO??? It's not logical at all!
In your youthful, ignorant arrogance, you look down upon the giants of yore as "yesterday's men". You do not heed their words. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes in the present and the future. Muslims do not hate Jews because of Israel, but rather because their Nazi religion commands them to do so. This not a struggle over territory but a religious struggle. When will you leftists finally understand this?!
Youth? Your 32, not much difference. Okay, I'm ignorant, so U say but U ask me to heed GIANTS of yesterday? They are dead! It is alive NOW not yesterday during those great men! It is difficult to do this with so many breakage and tracing and retracing of comments. If you feel ignorance is my fault, so be it. I do know one jewish life equals one israeli life. I do know, all PAST attempts have failed. There is nothing NEW in ur arguments. It's been here all along by others. (see new link to cont)
I believe G-d not only created us. He created too the other races.Therefore, I believe the gift G-d gave me was care for my fellow men and not only my race.
There is one here who beseech you & others like minded as you, to read more on "alternate" views to stand behind Israel, make you be more patriotic, more natiolist minded. Note that the books he quoted are PRO ZIONISM and not pro Judaism or Israel, right davkakach?
I'm trying to have an intellectual debate with you, but I'm having a really hard time. You're not making any sense. Instead of presenting documented facts that support your opinions and views, you're making an emotional appeal to what you hope is our shared sense of morality and justice. Instead of criticizing the supposed narrowness of my view on life, bring before me facts, dates, locations, quotations from texts --- something substantive, instead of telling me how I should think or feel.
If Ora Wise is an idiot as you so easily claimed, what about THE OTHERS??? Are THEY also a tool for the leftists? Grow up hartfieldzody. Giving others a label like you do, does not change the fact that these are people with convictions and the courage to stick to their beliefs.
Oh, one more thing. I don't care how the arabs want to practice their democracy. That is their business for as long as they don't try and enforced it on where I live. If the jordanians or eygptians or arabs are happy with their brand democracy, that's their business.
I tried replying on your vid but my comments keep getting refused. So i do it here. "...We may wake up tomorrow and the State of Israel may not exist.." Your words. You see, THAT is one of the lines constantly propagated by Israel and the pro zionist camp.
The ME issue is older than many of us. It's not been able to be solved coz of the same stubborn & constant views that's been maintained all this while.
The Ireland conflict took 400 over years to be "solved" (well, not really there yet but at least to get where it is right now I mean). Do we have 400 years to do this? Can we afford 400 over years to do this?? I do not agree to the Hamas charter. I do not agree to the zionist methods too. Yes, Israel, Palestine and the world needs to find a solution but collective punishment on them is not the solution. Never was.
The fact that we Israel may be obliterated does not give her the right to degrade or humiliate another race. This has always been the approach thru out history. Is that what Israel is only good at? No, I don't think so cos fora small nation, Israelis have made many significant contribution to the world too.
The humiliation of the Palestinian nation is, unfortunately, the product of their desire to exterminate the State of Israel and its Jewish inhabitants (i.e. the 1948 and 1967 wars). Israel did not simply invade Palestine and decide to occupy it for fun. The question now is can we end the occupation in a way that will allow both Israelis and Palestinians to live securely, or will we end the occupation in a way that will lead to another war. Your criticism of Israel advocates neither.
It certainly is not the ideal solution - but can you provide a better one? I have already provided my central concerns: That ending the occupation will lead to yet another war against Israel due to the highly negative view of Jews in the Middle-East. Thus, unless you can offer a solution that will both end the occupation and ensure Israel's security, your condemnations of Israel are meaningless.
Well, nobody can at the moment..duh. if that was possible, Peace would have been achieved huh? However, some one said that violence has always been the answer or method applied and no results has be achieved. So, pull out of the OT, sit down and talk. Maybe another Camp David sit-in perhaps. Either way, more talks less killings.
Like I said, even if WE are ready to change our views and make sacrifices for peace, those on the other side are not. If you cannot refute this point, then it seems that perhaps you should be condemning Arab and Muslim governments for regularly making use of anti-Semitic propaganda in order to ensure that there can be no lasting peace in the Middle-East.
"Like I said, even if WE are ready to change our views and make sacrifices ................"
You see? this is the standard zioinist reply. It's always WE are ready. WE want peace. WE are willing to make sacrifice...bla bla blah. THIS is a view from the Israeli side and ONLY the Israeli side. Like what you have stated herein, all these are merely repeatitive and known views. There is nothing new in what you've said too is there?
The fact that is it propagated by Israel and the pro-Zionist camp doesn't somehow make it less true. There has been a very dishonest smear campaign of Zionism (search Zionism on YouTube for proof) and this has turned Zionism into some sort of dirty word. Zionism is not a dirty word, and an argument associated with Zionists or Zionism doesn't somehow become less valid because of that association. If you disagree explain why - don't just reject the argument because it's a Zionist one.
yehudi06, you may have highlighted your central concerns, yes but what is new that we don't know yet?? Well, that is the concern of anyone involved. The solution? We have seen violence begets violence so far. Has that method provided the answer to us or the palestinians? Has it?? An emphatic no of course. What then is left but more negotiations? Years ago, Israel said they won't talk to PLO. Then they did. NOW they say they won't talk to Hamas. How much more games?
Will the cutting off of electricity this sunday bring peace? Is collective punishment the answer. Is humiliating Palestinians the answer?? No, but the zionists will still do it anyway won't they?
Of course if negotiations is not the answer, hey! Why don't everyone just finish things off. Let's be the catalyst to WW3. We may very well just be that.
Will it solve the problem permanently? Probably not.
Will it solve the missile attacks that Sderot residents have been experiencing daily for 7 years? Probably. When people don't have enough money to both feed themselves and buy weapons, they will usually choose the former. I say usually because the Palestinian leadership has shown that even while its people are starving it has time to buy hundreds of millions of dollars worth of weapons.
Do you remember what happened AFTER we started negotiating PLO? You seem to have selective memory loss! They promised us peace and instead terrorist attacks by them shot up by 300% or so, the destroyed Jewish holy sites which came under their control, and the propaganda and incitement against us skyrocketed. It may be tragic, but negotiating with a brick wall leads nowhere.
"There has been a very dishonest smear campaign of Zionism..."
FYI, There has been a dishonest campaign AGAINST THE OTHER SIDE TOO ON UTUBE. THE DIFF BETWEEN US, YOU ARE PLAYING ONLY THE ISRAELI SIDE WHILE I CAN SEE BOTH SIDES.
The people of Hebron would kill all of them.
CWWilken 3 years ago
good job you right about zione and iszel is still in wear cod will come and save us good
ktonozzy 3 years ago
nice video.
girlyoudontknow2 3 years ago
Plus(!) he says he wants to have an "Intelligent" discourse with you (his own words). Yet(!) he is very insulting & condescending in his approach. These jtf apes are all like that. Block him, end it. Duncha waste ya time sista.
blackwidow43 3 years ago
redrose, they're are just too set in their "well informed, LEARNED ways", they can't see other routes except kick all palist out of Israel.
Elders, many thanks. I know why "birds of a feather flock together" but if we do that, the flock won't increase any bigger. Thank YOU still.
Davkakach - To a better world one day. Shalom
innyourface 3 years ago
Leah, why would I want to go through all this again sis?? We know all their views. I'm wondering too why YOU would wanna get into this again :/
bluefieryfeline 3 years ago
To davkakach - I don't think we can have a decent chance of exchanging views over this retarded system utube has. Be it known however, all PAST historians, learned men can argue from dawn to dusk, THAT is why things are the way they are right now! Enough, I've enough of this. If others wish to continue, that's their choice.
ps: Sash, I know. I am wondering too. Perhaps I should just disable the comments :/
innyourface 3 years ago
Hey L, check that retard's comment on my vid. Sasha's right. This retard is a JTF nut, there is no effing way to talk to these apes. They still worship the ground kahane walks and he talks about "useful idiots"lol!
ps: that translation in the pm & I agree with Sasha, end the misery.
blackwidow43 3 years ago
Ahhh! Davkakach, I just went by your channel. You're a JTFer. Okay that explains. We won't get anyway with this.
c u.
innyourface 3 years ago
Sick movie there is no Palestine it is a Jewish invention which the Arabs adapted in order to destroy Israel
You do not want to live
to live is :ZACHOR ET ASHER ASA LECH AMALECK
acsi1ltdzipora 3 years ago
Sick comment. read my reply to davkakach. Tell us something new and NOT the stories again and again!!
innyourface 3 years ago
זה בזבוז הזמן. לפי מיטב המסורת ההומניסטית-שמאלנית הטיפוסית, הן לא מסוגלות לנהל ויכוח מסודר ואינטלקטואלי.
davkakach 3 years ago
I am lousy at the language. I have said this in my first video. I'm not a sabra. I'm american born & educated. I speak hebrew but a little bit. If you wish to have an exchange in hebrew, see my friend in my list, Sasha aka Bluefieryfeline or Blackwidow43 aka Steffanie. Both are in my profile comments.
innyourface 3 years ago
(continuation of interview)
However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.
davkakach 3 years ago
This is to all your comments. Your arguments here DO NOT make or will NOT make any difference to peace in the ME. Why? Because it has been said many many MANY times by those from your camp!! My point is, 60 over years, what now??! Maintain everything as it is?? Do YOU even get the POINT these gerls are saying??
innyourface 3 years ago
(continuation of interview)
Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem.
davkakach 3 years ago
Existence of the other people. You see, this is where ppl like you don't get it. Whether palistine exist or not, is already settled. THEY EXIST. THEY are there, now, this very minute. WHAT Israel is doing is genocide. Your arguments will NOT make the palis go away. They are already here to stay. DEAL with it pleaseee!
innyourface 3 years ago
In a March 31, 1977 interview with the Amsterdam-based newspaper Dagblad de Verdieping Trouw, PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhse'in said:
The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese.
davkakach 3 years ago
"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria." - Delegate of Saudi Arabia to the United Nations Security Council, 1956
davkakach 3 years ago
A sickening display of mentally-disturbed, self-hating confused Jews. The worst enemies of the Jewish people have been such Jews.
davkakach 3 years ago
Self hating? what? you're "self loving"?? Yeah, gotta be that. Self loving is what has made the world the way it is.
innyourface 3 years ago
Your ignorance is surpassed only by your conceit. You are a typical leftist product of the American "educational" system. Have you read anything besides Edward Said's drivel? Have you studied the Qur'an, the Hadith and the Sira? Have you read Snouck Hurgronje, Henri Lammens, Arthur Jeffery, David Hume, John Wesley, John Quincy Adams, Alexis de Tocqueville, Winston Churchill, André Malraux, Andrew Bostom, Robert Spencer, Ibn Warraq, Walid Shoebat?
davkakach 3 years ago
MY conceit? MY Ignorance?? Whoa, spunk me a few names & tt makes ya an Intellect huh? Sweets, you don't know me, NOT that I care anyway. Fact is, all these years what has SELF-LOVING ZIONIST Israel achieved with regard to the Palestinian issue?? Oh wait, don't tell me. There is no Palestine...yeah, yeah. Right mr. professor ;)
innyourface 3 years ago
"From the end of the Jewish state in antiquity to the beginning of British rule, the area now designated by the name Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries..."
- Professor Bernard Lewis, Princeton University
"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not." -- Professor Philip Hatti, Arab historian to the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, 1946
davkakach 3 years ago
There is nothing "confused" on their part. There is absolutely nothing mentally-disturbed or "ignorant" about them. The ones suffering from such grand delusions are ones like you davkakach. You still believe that to suppress the liberty of the Palis will fortify Israel. If that is the case, why is living in constant fear never ending?
EldersOFZI0N 3 years ago
Do not quote me any of those books/authors. I am old enough, read quite a bit davkakach. Whilst I may not be 100 years old, I think I've lived long enough to see that the past & current policies have never worked. "The more brutal the oppresion, the more desperate the opposition" has been shown to be very true all these years, you fool.
EldersOFZI0N 3 years ago
You are a dishonest coward and an intellectual midget. You didn't have the guts to display any of my quotes. And BTW, those quotes aren't from any books and they are not mere opinions; three of them were said by Arabs. You exhibit typical leftist Bolshevik fascism, censoring the truth and spreading lies and propaganda. You learned from your leftist mentors in college well. I repeat my question: What have you read besides books by the Islamic apologist Edward Said?
davkakach 3 years ago
coward? him? me? and you're brave one and smart one too? yeah, right..right again, LOL. All comments are displayed. ONLY comments containing profanities, vulgarities and plain ad-hominem attacks are stopped.
innyourface 3 years ago
Okay, I apologize for accusing you of censoring my quotations --- I found them on the previous page. I am also not happy about resorting to ad hominem attacks against you. I would LIKE to engage in an orderly, intellectual debate with you, but I doubt you are capable of me. I would like to be proven wrong. Before I continue, I repeat (for the third time) my previous question: what have you read besides Edward Said? What are your sources?
davkakach 3 years ago
I have never liked Said, fyi but Well, some are Norman Finkelstein's, Robert Fisk's articles, Noam's of course and my favorite, Emma Rosenthal among SOME...
innyourface 3 years ago
You also missed what I am saying. What GOOD is all of Man's knowledge if Man cannot live in Peace?? Eons have passed and we are still behaving like animals?? Where is YOUR knowledge applied here???
innyourface 3 years ago
Don't you think you should read other sources, besides Jewish and non-Jewish anti-Semitic tracts, to get a more balanced, unbiased, perspective on the Israeli-"Palestinian" issue? Whereas the texts you mentioned are secondary sources AT BEST (in reality, they are just opinions of individuals), I brought before you primary sources (quotations by Arabs and the minutes of U.N. committee hearings), yet you seem to be unimpressed.
davkakach 3 years ago
I am actually NOT impressed by the Arabs, period. I have also such a high disdain for the Arab muslim leaders like Arafat or hussein etc etc INCLUDING our's like Sharon or Bibi.
innyourface 3 years ago
Are you unimpressed by the Arab sources I brought before you, or are you unimpressed by Arabs in general? If it is the latter, does it not conflict with your belief in the values of humanism, rationalism and equality?
davkakach 3 years ago
Unimpressed by Arab leaders. I have nuthin against muslims. I have muslim friends AND jewish ones. As for the sources, I'll put it this way. If history taught us no lessons at all, then I say those views, albeit 200 years old, is really of no consequence are they??
innyourface 3 years ago
Please don't project your failure to learn from history to others. The fact that you believe, like so many others, that there is actually a "Palestinian" people, speaks volumes about your unfamiliarity with history. What if Emperor Hadrian didn't rename Judaea to Palestina (135 AD)? Would we be speaking today of the "Judean terrorists" instead of the "Palestinian terrorists"? Until the 7th century, there were no Arabs (or "Palestinians", as you call them) in the Land of Israel.
davkakach 3 years ago
You ask, "What GOOD is all of Man's knowledge if Man cannot live in Peace??" Fair question. Why begin your bleeding heart idealistic quest for peace by attacking Israel (for trying to survive)? Why are you not troubled by the genocide against Black MUSLIMS in Darfur; female genital mutilation so widespread in the Arab Muslim world; "honor" killings and oppression of women in Islam; the practice of slavery in the Arab countries; mutilation as Shari'a punishment? Why backstab your own people?
davkakach 3 years ago
Stab my own people? You JUDGED me by this ONE account?? Then what about these gurls here?? Are THEY stabbing their own?? To move forward, sometimes we just have to throw caution to the wind. I do what I can. A few of us here are members of some activist groups.
innyourface 3 years ago
Also, to earlier remark about secondary sources. Mr. Robert Fisk spent over 30 years in international journalism, MORE than HALF of that in the ME. He is a very qualified person indeed.
innyourface 3 years ago
I brought before you a list of renowned historians, politicians and philosophers who lived in the last 200 years, yet you ignore that, have no intention of exploring their writinsg, and instead cling desperately to the writings of a small, biased circle of individuals who are of the same opinion. What happened to "open-minded"? Why are you not impressed by the writings of Churchill and Adams, yet you worship Finkelstein? And you ARE stabbing your own people, by siding with their enemies.
davkakach 3 years ago
Look, I may be young..(not that young at 27 alryt?) but that does not mean I don't know my history. I agree with Prof Phillip on Palestine BUT, BUT! the fact is they are here. There are many in Israel, many AROUND Israel. This is a fact. We have to deal with this and not keep saying there was NO Palestine etc etc.. It's done. They exist and we all need to COEXIST.
innyourface 3 years ago
Yes, they exist, but they have 22 countries to choose from, and we have only one. Let them settle in "Jordan". 70% of "Jordanians" are "Palestinians", anyway. Why not initiate phase 2 of the exchange of populations (phase 1 began in 1948 when 800,000 Jews left the Arab countries and settled in Israel). We took in Jews from the Arab countries, let's give them Arabs from the Jewish country (just as with India-Pakistan, Greece-Turkey, and ethnic Germans in Czechoslovakia and Poland after WWII).
davkakach 3 years ago
You brought before her "a list of renowned historians". Very well. Now, tell me brother, how advantageous the cause for peace is with views so staid, so unbending. Churchill and Adams are sadly, yesterday's men. We are here now, today. Today 60 sad years later, we are still at square one. If anything, war has never solved any problems. It indeed has caused MORE problems. You cannot have peace if you do not want to talk to your enemy. I am sure you know who said that or words to that effect.
EldersOFZI0N 3 years ago
Courage is needed for dramatic changes to take place. We're a people known for our courage, the world knows this. So why are we so AFRAID to learn to start making friends with the enemy? Why do we keep suppressing them and treating them with indignities?? Because they are murderers, killers? Would you NOT fight for what you think is yours too?? You would and that's why we are where we're at now, sadly.
EldersOFZI0N 3 years ago
EXACTLY! They think the land belongs to them. They are wrong. They have 22 other Arab countries to choose as home. If you are secular, of course you don't feel entitled to the land, but if you are religious, if you know that G-d promised this land to Jacob and his seed, then you do not suffer from guilt or moral confusion. THEY MUST GO. They do not belong in the land named after Israle, not Ishmael. Let these Arabs go back to the Arabian peninsula, whence they came originally.
davkakach 3 years ago
When the British "drew" Israel, those palestinians IN Israel did not exist? they did. So NOW we must send them OUT TO JORDAN etc etc??? WHY MUST THEY CHOSE TO GO??? It's not logical at all!
innyourface 3 years ago
In your youthful, ignorant arrogance, you look down upon the giants of yore as "yesterday's men". You do not heed their words. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes in the present and the future. Muslims do not hate Jews because of Israel, but rather because their Nazi religion commands them to do so. This not a struggle over territory but a religious struggle. When will you leftists finally understand this?!
davkakach 3 years ago
Youth? Your 32, not much difference. Okay, I'm ignorant, so U say but U ask me to heed GIANTS of yesterday? They are dead! It is alive NOW not yesterday during those great men! It is difficult to do this with so many breakage and tracing and retracing of comments. If you feel ignorance is my fault, so be it. I do know one jewish life equals one israeli life. I do know, all PAST attempts have failed. There is nothing NEW in ur arguments. It's been here all along by others. (see new link to cont)
innyourface 3 years ago
These disgraceful Jews should go live in Gaza.
AmYisreolChai 3 years ago
May be these "disgraceful" Jews & those like them are ones that will change things!! Instead of the situation being status quo FOR YEARS!!
innyourface 3 years ago
What is disgraceful are people who refuse to use the gifts G*d has given us and That's you, AmYisreolChai.
EldersOFZI0N 3 years ago
The gift G-d gave me was love of Israel and the Jewish people, not some phantom "Palestinian" people.
AmYisreolChai 3 years ago
Allow me to reply my thoughts to you/elders-
I believe G-d not only created us. He created too the other races.Therefore, I believe the gift G-d gave me was care for my fellow men and not only my race.
innyourface 3 years ago
What race exactly are Jews? What race are Muslims? Like so many other unlearned people, you confuse religion and race.
davkakach 3 years ago
There is one here who beseech you & others like minded as you, to read more on "alternate" views to stand behind Israel, make you be more patriotic, more natiolist minded. Note that the books he quoted are PRO ZIONISM and not pro Judaism or Israel, right davkakach?
EldersOFZI0N 3 years ago
G*d gave you MANY other gifts brother. That is not the only one blessed to us. Narrow indeed is your view on life for one so religious, unlike me.
EldersOFZI0N 3 years ago
I'm trying to have an intellectual debate with you, but I'm having a really hard time. You're not making any sense. Instead of presenting documented facts that support your opinions and views, you're making an emotional appeal to what you hope is our shared sense of morality and justice. Instead of criticizing the supposed narrowness of my view on life, bring before me facts, dates, locations, quotations from texts --- something substantive, instead of telling me how I should think or feel.
davkakach 3 years ago
The "phantom" people are not so phantom. They exists right at your doorsteps. You need to awake from that deep slumber.
EldersOFZI0N 3 years ago
I think you should all read the Talmud and maybe look into some aspects of the religion that never seem to be examined.
Just like Chritianity, certain interpretive elements of the religion and/or culture are not aligned with universal human dignity and equality.
Quite the opposite.
inocentehinojosa 4 years ago
"People are our strongest resource" Very true indeed Susie. Thank you.
innyourface 4 years ago
Ora wise and all the people on the video want Israel destroyed!
hartfieldzody 4 years ago
I think they don't have to. In the very long run, zionism will destroy Israel. Of coz until then more lives will be lost.
innyourface 4 years ago
anti israel people like you will withner into assimilation no more!
ZIONISM FOREVER
hartfieldzody 4 years ago
I am scratching my head real hard here trying to figure out what you are saying hartfieldzody, sheesh
innyourface 4 years ago
Ora wise is idiot and a tool of the Leftist who are self hateing Jews!
Anti zionism=Racism
Racism=Anti zionism
Zionism is state for the Jewish people!
hartfieldzody 4 years ago
If Ora Wise is an idiot as you so easily claimed, what about THE OTHERS??? Are THEY also a tool for the leftists? Grow up hartfieldzody. Giving others a label like you do, does not change the fact that these are people with convictions and the courage to stick to their beliefs.
innyourface 4 years ago
Oh, one more thing. I don't care how the arabs want to practice their democracy. That is their business for as long as they don't try and enforced it on where I live. If the jordanians or eygptians or arabs are happy with their brand democracy, that's their business.
bluefieryfeline 4 years ago
We need MORE brave ppl like them on BOTH sides. Good vid. Thanks for the link too. Peace.
falconesque 4 years ago
I think dialogue is exactly what we need, and I plan to take part in it. I'll make a video response ASAP.
yehudi06 4 years ago
I tried replying on your vid but my comments keep getting refused. So i do it here. "...We may wake up tomorrow and the State of Israel may not exist.." Your words. You see, THAT is one of the lines constantly propagated by Israel and the pro zionist camp.
bluefieryfeline 4 years ago
The ME issue is older than many of us. It's not been able to be solved coz of the same stubborn & constant views that's been maintained all this while.
bluefieryfeline 4 years ago
The Ireland conflict took 400 over years to be "solved" (well, not really there yet but at least to get where it is right now I mean). Do we have 400 years to do this? Can we afford 400 over years to do this?? I do not agree to the Hamas charter. I do not agree to the zionist methods too. Yes, Israel, Palestine and the world needs to find a solution but collective punishment on them is not the solution. Never was.
bluefieryfeline 4 years ago
The fact that we Israel may be obliterated does not give her the right to degrade or humiliate another race. This has always been the approach thru out history. Is that what Israel is only good at? No, I don't think so cos fora small nation, Israelis have made many significant contribution to the world too.
bluefieryfeline 4 years ago
The humiliation of the Palestinian nation is, unfortunately, the product of their desire to exterminate the State of Israel and its Jewish inhabitants (i.e. the 1948 and 1967 wars). Israel did not simply invade Palestine and decide to occupy it for fun. The question now is can we end the occupation in a way that will allow both Israelis and Palestinians to live securely, or will we end the occupation in a way that will lead to another war. Your criticism of Israel advocates neither.
yehudi06 4 years ago
It certainly is not the ideal solution - but can you provide a better one? I have already provided my central concerns: That ending the occupation will lead to yet another war against Israel due to the highly negative view of Jews in the Middle-East. Thus, unless you can offer a solution that will both end the occupation and ensure Israel's security, your condemnations of Israel are meaningless.
yehudi06 4 years ago
"...but can you provide a better one?"
Well, nobody can at the moment..duh. if that was possible, Peace would have been achieved huh? However, some one said that violence has always been the answer or method applied and no results has be achieved. So, pull out of the OT, sit down and talk. Maybe another Camp David sit-in perhaps. Either way, more talks less killings.
bluefieryfeline 4 years ago
Like I said, even if WE are ready to change our views and make sacrifices for peace, those on the other side are not. If you cannot refute this point, then it seems that perhaps you should be condemning Arab and Muslim governments for regularly making use of anti-Semitic propaganda in order to ensure that there can be no lasting peace in the Middle-East.
yehudi06 4 years ago
"Like I said, even if WE are ready to change our views and make sacrifices ................"
You see? this is the standard zioinist reply. It's always WE are ready. WE want peace. WE are willing to make sacrifice...bla bla blah. THIS is a view from the Israeli side and ONLY the Israeli side. Like what you have stated herein, all these are merely repeatitive and known views. There is nothing new in what you've said too is there?
bluefieryfeline 4 years ago
The fact that is it propagated by Israel and the pro-Zionist camp doesn't somehow make it less true. There has been a very dishonest smear campaign of Zionism (search Zionism on YouTube for proof) and this has turned Zionism into some sort of dirty word. Zionism is not a dirty word, and an argument associated with Zionists or Zionism doesn't somehow become less valid because of that association. If you disagree explain why - don't just reject the argument because it's a Zionist one.
yehudi06 4 years ago
yehudi06, you may have highlighted your central concerns, yes but what is new that we don't know yet?? Well, that is the concern of anyone involved. The solution? We have seen violence begets violence so far. Has that method provided the answer to us or the palestinians? Has it?? An emphatic no of course. What then is left but more negotiations? Years ago, Israel said they won't talk to PLO. Then they did. NOW they say they won't talk to Hamas. How much more games?
blackwidow43 4 years ago
Will the cutting off of electricity this sunday bring peace? Is collective punishment the answer. Is humiliating Palestinians the answer?? No, but the zionists will still do it anyway won't they?
blackwidow43 4 years ago
Of course if negotiations is not the answer, hey! Why don't everyone just finish things off. Let's be the catalyst to WW3. We may very well just be that.
blackwidow43 4 years ago
Will it solve the problem permanently? Probably not.
Will it solve the missile attacks that Sderot residents have been experiencing daily for 7 years? Probably. When people don't have enough money to both feed themselves and buy weapons, they will usually choose the former. I say usually because the Palestinian leadership has shown that even while its people are starving it has time to buy hundreds of millions of dollars worth of weapons.
yehudi06 4 years ago
Do you remember what happened AFTER we started negotiating PLO? You seem to have selective memory loss! They promised us peace and instead terrorist attacks by them shot up by 300% or so, the destroyed Jewish holy sites which came under their control, and the propaganda and incitement against us skyrocketed. It may be tragic, but negotiating with a brick wall leads nowhere.
yehudi06 4 years ago
"There has been a very dishonest smear campaign of Zionism..."
FYI, There has been a dishonest campaign AGAINST THE OTHER SIDE TOO ON UTUBE. THE DIFF BETWEEN US, YOU ARE PLAYING ONLY THE ISRAELI SIDE WHILE I CAN SEE BOTH SIDES.
bluefieryfeline 4 years ago