Monica Seles - Moments That Changed The Game

[cain2335]

her stabbing didn't just change the game of tennis. it changed sports in general. every sports star during that time all of a sudden went "wow i should get some security bc i dont want that happening." it was a big change

[FuckFaschists]

THAT FUGLY SLUT GRAFF DIDN'T TESTIMONY..GERMAN NAZI PEACE OF SHIT!!!!!

[FuckFaschists]

I LIVE IN A FUCKING GERMANY AND THERE ARE TO MANY "MENTALLY UNFIT" BASTARDS.PEDHOPHILES AND SO ON WHO DOESN'T GO TO A JAIL..

[hiu1787]

I don't think 30 is realistic number of GS Monica could've won. I think 15 may be more realistic. Definitely, Graf would not have won as many as she did (22).

[Meade3763]

@hiu1787

Those are hyptheticals. Graf could say that she would have won far more slams if she hadn't had all those back and knee problems starting in 1994. She had won 3 slams in 1995 and in 1996. As she was just 27 years old she was set to dominate for many years to come. But in 1997 her knee betrayed her and she was never the same player again after her surgery that year. Without that Graf could have easily won the majority of the slams until 2002 (Serena's year).

[Vucijak86]

He didnt spend 1 day in jail because Monica Seles at that time was JUGOSLAVIAN CITIZEN but soon as she took AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP she was 1000 times more protected.

[Meade3763]

@Vucijak86

What does the citizenship have to do with being "protected" by criminal law in a EU country? Are you really so dense to believe that it would have made a difference if Seles had been a US citizen at the time of the attack?

[123456RaulMorales]

LONG LIVE(VIVA) MONICA SELES!!

[brightlights456X]

Was she really THAT GOOD!?

Possible 30 Grand-Slams....fuck me!

[alexaadap]

i remember, Seles was dominating the game, including Graf. in the end , the man's objective succeeded

[shawndw1000]

I remember exactly where I was when I heard about it. Just one of those moments as a tennis fan u remember. Broke my heart that Seles never really came back to her old form. Now Seles and I are linked b/c I was stabbed too. Worst experience in my life. Sure it's the same for her.

[Svninja10]

@supermom23

it went 1.5 cm (0.59 inches).

[supermom23]

I can only imagine how traumatic it must be to be attacked like that. But I remember reading that the knife only went in a half an inch. That's really not very far so I always wondered about her severe reaction, kind of over the top.

[beckhamsfollower]

@supermom23 are you serious? have you ever been stabbed? in front of millions of people?

[OnlyOneTreeHill8]

The sad thing is that the psycho succeeded - he wanted to protect Graf's legacy, and this ensured that Seles was never going to be the same player again.

[Globox822]

It was all a set up. They couldn't let some eastern European be better then that German..... What a shame, at age 19 she has 8 GS, sick!

[DexterHaven49]

@Globox822 Yeah, she should have testified. She must have thought the case was a slam dunk. It was on TV and in front of witnesses. But the judge got weak knees. Imagine if Graf got stabbed instead! How much prison time he would have done! Clear bias in the court. This clown Jon forgets to mention the only tangible effect of the stabbing on tennis, as it's played today. Look at any shot of Agassi in the US open after '93. There's a big security guard behind his chair when he takes a break.

[artisking1]

I don't think you can compare Graf and Seles, after 1993. Graf's only competition was removed from the sport, a huge advantage. Later Graf had injuries, but she wasn't stabbed. Very different mental impact. Graf lucked out, facts are facts.

As for Seles Graf pre stabbing, as of 1993, Seles had shown she was superior to Graf, and even Steffi admitted so.

[tenniscollector]

@artisking1 Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Accept the fact and get on with your life, you imbecile, LOL...

[artisking1]

@tenniscollector

Hi Loser! How are you muy littel asian nitwit friend?

Lol, Lol, Lol......

[tenniscollector]

@artisking1  Just fine, american retard, LOL LOL LOL

[artisking1]

@tenniscollector

Good for you loser! Take care! Thanks for posting......BYE.........

[tenniscollector]

@artisking1 BTW forgot to add - Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT,Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT, Steffi Graf GOAT Steffi Graf GOAT, LOL LOL LOL

[artisking1]

@tenniscollector

Thanks Loser! BYE!

[tenniscollector]

@artisking1 Seem real anxious to get rid of me. Guess what meat head?! It's a public facility here and I can say and reply to whoever I like so get used to it. Oh and another thing - I AIN'T GOING AWAY ANYTIME SOON, Seles arsekisser. You make me laugh, LOL .......

[artisking1]

@tenniscollector

Sure, right, whatever you say, my dumb Geisha girl.....Thanks, Loser!

Bye!

[fishpets]

@artisking1 During Monica Seles's peak years from 1991 to early 1993, Steffi Graf had a 3-2 winning record against Monica Seles, so I don't know how Seles had shown that she was "superior to Graf". Seles was winning a lot more majors than Graf was during that two plus year stretch, but Graf actually won the head to head against Seles during that time.

Also, a huge hole in Monica Seles's resume is the fact that she never won Wimbledon.

[artisking1]

@fishpets

Steffi Graf doesn't agree with you, and neither does anyone else.

[fishpets]

@artisking1 you didn't even try to counter any of my points, so whatever. I guess I won that round.

And I think that a lot of people would agree with the facts that I presented. Graf had a winning record against Seles between 1991 and 1993 and Seles never won Wimbledon. The best Seles can say is that she won a lot of Slams between 1991 and 1993. Seles was at the top of her game, but it's not like she was consistenly beating Graf. That's far from the truth.

[artisking1]

@fishpets

Sure, right, no problem,thanks for all that...... Anything else?

[tenniscollector]

@fishpets He's like that. Watch out for his alter -alias kingwilbe. Another Seles-arsekisser.

[fishpets]

@tenniscollector Okay, lol. thanks for the warning.

[jayfey77]

i like how you dont count 1990 because seles beat graf that year more than once.seles would have won wimbledon had she not got stabbed.everybody but idiots like you know that.graf losing in 94 proves this.in 94 final it was navratilova vs conchita martinez players seles dominated. in 94 seles would have been in her prime and dominated.seles wasnt even in her prime yet when she was beating graf thats what you dont realise.seles was entering her prime in 93 when she got stabbed.

[manforU100]

mcentpede :I think your opinion is right,, till this era there is no more games so competitive as Graf and Seles made..it was brilliant and great rivalry between this 2 women,, I agree if u said on 19 years Monica got more tittle event Steffi, and I believed , her Stabbing is really dark side in tennis history... we All remembered. but you all must salute for Graf humble and great personality..that's why all the World still love her although she's just retired..:-)peace..:-)

[manforU100]

Timothywestwook : that is history i was talk and wrote,,and all of your opinion is about nazi german,,I think u dislike Graf because She is Germany..OK. lets talk calm down : my question is : why Seles couldn't took advantage when graf fall down at injury & heavy knee problem on the period 1997 -1998,,because she did at AO 96 and won it.. should in those years is the opportunity for Monica took at least 4 or 5 Grand slam ,maybe at FO or AO ?? give me a good reason as it should be...:-)

[matrixkurt]

"He's done this as an act of loyalty to protect Steffi Graf's place in history."

Well he certainly did that...or rather, Monica did that by letting him stay in her mind for the rest of her career.

[manforU100]

she is change the game, it is right! but she never better than Graf even BEFORE or AFTER stabbing,, Graf won 22 Grandslam and DOMINANT SELES 10-5 HEAD To HEAD.. We talk about record and 'number" we do not talk about personal problem..

[timothywestwood]

@manforU100 you taslk a load of crap the proof is in the history monica took graff apart so she got a fellow german bast to get rid of monica germans have allways been nazi sore loosers

[mcentepede]

@timothywestwood Absolutely agree with you 100%. Don't know why this is even a debate. Monica was the best, the stabbing incident took its toll.

[mcentepede]

@manforU100 Seles was whupping everybody up until that incident. When you're this good, somebody will try to take you out. As a former licensed pro athlete myself, I know. At 19, Seles had more titles than most of the females today. She was grunting, destroying and manhandling the other women like an MMA event. Great stuff. The numbers mean diddly squat to me. Pre-stabbing Monica Seles the best female tennis player eva. Believe it.

[artisking]

Fair point:

I just don't think you can compare generations adequately. The sports evolves and technology, nutrition, equipment, and the subtle differences in generations all have such a big role....

I am a huge fan of Seles, McEnroe, Federer and Martina, but i could never say that one is the "greatest". Certainly I could make a case, but what would that mean? Just selfish partisan fan frenzy blogging.

Compare yes, but say one is better? No.

Just my opinion.

[mcentepede]

@artisking Monica Seles is the best from your list. The others have no charisma or grunting ability.

[fishpets]

@mcentepede Charisma and grunting ability have absolutely NOTHING to do with being considered the greatest tennis player of all-time. It's totally irrelevant to the argument.

[mcentepede]

@fishpets I am sticking by my original opinion I made a year ago. Seles is the best. You seem to be forgetting that a "Steffi Graf" psycho fan stabbed Seles, ending her best years at 19. The fix was in after that. They cheated Seles plain and simple.

[fishpets]

@mcentepede  I didn't "forget" anything. The fact of the matter is, Monica Seles didn't get to complete her career. She had a great run between 1991 and early 1993, but she can't be considered the best as far as a career is concerned. the most you can say is maybe she was the best during a 2 year stretch, but even that is disputable because she didn't win Wimbledon during that stretch. In fact, she never won Wimbledon period.

[monica012077]

@fishpets But Seles beat her in 3 out of 4 Grand Slam finals, one of them when she was just a kid. That's what counts in history, you Graf fanatics always want to cling to Graf tour final wins over Seles to devalue her accomplishments. I'm sure Monica wasn't dialed in at some pt during the year but at the Slams she was, and Graf no. Monica didn't win Wimbledon because Steffi did. but that's all she got during that period, Monica was busy winning the other 3 slams of the year and being number 1.

[fishpets]

@monica012077 As I said in another comment, Monica Seles had a losing record against Steffi Graf during her peak years. Slam finals is not the only thing that count. The other tournaments and the earlier rounds of Slam tournaments count as well. And I NEVER tried to devalue Monica Seles's accomplishments so I don't know what you're talking about.

Steffi Graf won a Golden Slam in 1988 and she won 3 of 4 Slams in 1989, 1993, 1995 and 1996. Monica Seles was great but I think Graf was better.

[monica012077]

@fishpets Monica's Slam record was great against Steffi during those years, which is more important, more ranking pts, more money, & prestige. Your not the only Graf fan who thinks a Hamburg win is just as important as the French title, The GS are the mid-term, the rest are pop quizzes. And I'm only discussing pre-stabbing results for Seles, Steffi won 3 GS in 93 & 95 because Seles was stabbed, and post-stabbing Monica was just a shadow of herself. Graf's record is definitely assisted by it.

[monica012077]

@fishpets Monica is the greatest female teen to play the game, her pre-stabbing results from 90-93 are better than Graf's during the same period. Prior to Seles the competition was pretty weak in 88-89 so of course Steffi would dominate, but if you watch most of their important GS matches, Monica was better, under pressure, when it counted. So i think Monica was better during her dominating years, and Graf capitalized on the stabbing to overinflate her ego, confidence, & GS totals.

[fishpets]

@monica012077 Lol, now I KNOW that you're nothing but a crazy Monica Seles fan. You're accusing Steffi Graf of "capitalizing on Monica Seles's stabbing to overinflate her ego, confidence and stats". Give me a break. You're insane. Monica Seles was a great player but you're nothing but a Monica Seles fanboy/fangirl. Don't blame the stabbing on Steffi Graf. She wasn't going to retire just because Monica Seles got stabbed.  She continued to play, which made sense.

[fishpets]

@monica012077 (continued) Oh, and keep holding onto that 1991 to 1993 era, because that's all you've got to come at me with. As I said, Steffi Graf had a winning record against Monica Seles during those years. Graf started to get knocked out of Slam tournaments by other players. Seles only defeated Graf twice in Slams during those years. Graf was just in a two and a half year slump where she lost to many other players in Slams.

Graf 22 Slams. Seles 9 Slams. End of story.

[monica012077]

@fishpets It's 3 Grand Slam wins over Graf, 90 French Open, 92 French Open and 93 Australian Open, Graf only won 92 Wimbledon because didn't grunt, not because she didn't want to, but was pressured not to. ridiculous, and that's what the discussion is about, Monica's dominating years. Steffi has a stabbed assisted 22. She was number 2 so was in the best position to capitilize on the number 1 player being gone, and she did, so your deluted if you think she's that great!

[fishpets]

@monica012077 And Steffi Graf has THREE Grand Slam final wins over Monica Seles as well.

Graf 22 Slams. Seles 9 Slams. Graf has more than double the amount Seles has.

Seles, ZERO Wimbledon championships. Wimbledon is THE most important tournament and Seles has never won it.

Steffi Graf, SEVEN Wimbledon titles.

Oh, and Monica couldn't grunt so she didn't win Wimbledon? Hahahaha. Excuses, excuses.

[jayfey77]

@fishpets monica had 8 grand slam wins by age 18.graf had 2.so who was on their way to winning more grand slams you retard.graf only had 3 wins over seles cause of the stabbing.2 of those wins came after the stabbing when seles wasnt anywhere near the player she used to be.losing to sanchez-vicario proved that.a player she dominated and was superior to before the stabbing.

[fishpets]

@monica012077 Monica Seles had a great run in the early 1990s. No one is denying that. So I don't know what the hell you're arguing about.

All I know is, Steffi Graf is one of the two greatest womens players of all-time, something that Monica Seles can never lay claim to. Martina Navratilova, Steffi Graf, Chris Evert and Margaret Court can all lay claim as to being among the top 4 or 5. And guess what? They've all won Wimbledon. Seles is maybe a Top 10, but she can never be a Top 5.

[jayfey77]

seles only played graf once during her peak years.in 93 and she beat her.seles was denied playing graf in her peak years thanks to the stabbing.you want proof here is the proof.graf outaced seles in all their matches except for one.guess which one.the 93 final.because by then seles was no longer the little girl graf could overpower.seles was entering her peak and the 8 aces to grafs 1 prove this.graf winning 3 of 4 slams in 89 and 93 was because seles wasnt there you retard.

[uncoverbrother]

wow. unfortunate.

[anthonynewsome]

I remember that the woman's game also lost its edge, prior to the attack everyone was giving out about Seles's grunt and with her gone from the tour the silence of that grunt was deafening, to millions of people Monica is the best ever tennis player, her commitment to the game can never be taken away from her, she has found contentment in her life now which is fantastic I wish her peace and much love in her life

[kljMN2]

I do not believe that Steffi had anything to do with it, but I have this feeling that her father did. Peter Graf is a sleazeball and a convict and I could easily see him doing something like this, without Steffi's knowledge.... too bad we will never know.

[AdiSerbia]

She is ok now i think. Pozdrav iz Srbije!!!

[MariPamJam]

The Heck is wrong with Parche? What he did was stupid, and wrong. Seles and Graf were both great tennis players. And Parche almost ruined her career. Like what John Hinkley did to James Brady. I'm not joking

[gokharol]

what happened to her??

[kinglauda]

Volimo te Monika

[championxeneixe]

Where is that motherf#cker who attacked Seles?

I hope in prison!(sometime I feel like maybe somebody close to graf paid that man to attack monica)

[italo36]

that guy never went to prison but i am not surprised. this happened in steffi's home country and this guy was also a fan of Graf. Graf had a bad attitude and took advantage of the situation by winning almost everything. Monica even said that Steffi never even sent her a ''get well'' card while she was away from the game.

[fishpets]

@italo36 You're criticizing Steffi Graf by saying that she "took advantage of the situation by winning almost everything". Are you serious? So what, did you expect Steffi Graf to just retire from womens tennis after Monica Seles got stabbed? That's what it sounds like you're trying to say. Steffi Graf loved the game of tennis, so she continued to play and win tournaments and Grand Slams after the Monica Seles stabbing. That's what anyone would have done. Sheesh.

[trent8002003]

The animal is walking free because of the warped German justice system. In spite of million of eyes witnessing what happened on that German tennis court, the German justice system still required the traumatised Monica to go to Germany to testify agst the bastard just a few feet from him. Monica refused and the bastared walked.

[championxeneixe]

May be her father?hummm we never know the truth!

[IloveMonica4ever]

this is what many people believe.

why does monica frequently mention in her interviews that 'both of us will never give an inch...'' think about it what does it mean

[toby5and10]

A moment that changed the game for years - absolutely. Steffi was fighting, but Seles was the one to beat at the big events back then. She was so tough and so good. A great great player.

[JamieOwen3]

this seriously does give me chills still,and it's so true everyone knows even graff fans that monica would have been the gretest that ever lived hadnt that happen to her.and i vagely remember seeing her play when i was 4-5 just before she got stabbed and monica really was amazing,so sad that she only won one more after that.

[mcentepede]

@JamieOwen3 I tell you. In every sport there is somebody that stands out, skills, charisma, whatever. Women's tennis it was Monica Seles. Tennis meant nothing to me until I tuned in the 90's watching Seles destroying females with her grunts and appealing aggression. It was fantastic. Regular guys like me were flocking to watch her play. She revolutionized the game. Anna Kornikova is just pretty. She can't play like Seles. Seles just destroyed the competition like it was a boxing match.

[SunderedPrey08]

This video is very true. That's why even though Graf was great and all, I still can't fully grasp the fact that she is the GOAT (greatest of all time) when things would've went differently hadn't Seles been stabbed.

[trent8002003]

Damn Gunther Parche. He single handedly changed the history of women tennis decidedly for the worse. Monica Seles would have been the all times greatest but because of that mad bastard, Steffi became that. Well done, Parche. You did it all by myself and may you and the German justice system rot in hell!

[quirotmutolafan]

@trent8002003 Graf is not the greatest ever and neither is Seles. The greatest player ever is clearly Martina Navratilova. Over 150 tournament titles in singles, something similar to that in doubles, all kinds of mixed doubles. How can you even compare anyone to that really. Connolly would have been the greatest ever without her horse back riding accident though. She probably would have won close to 40 slam singles titles as she had nobody who could even compete with her for another decade.

[trent8002003]

@quirotmutolafan MN indeed has a record that no one has or probably will match. That said, there' s always the nagging question of what might have been with Monica. She's the ONLY champion that has been artificially cut down AT HER PRIME. MN, Chris, Steffi etc have run their natural courses. But Monica's record is never complete because of the stabbing. So we'd never know for sure. But I do concede that even without the stabbing, it'd have been very hard for Monica to match MN's record.

[quirotmutolafan]

@trent8002003 Yeah I agree. I was only noticing you mentioned Graf is now considered the greatest ever. For me she isnt. Even aside from the Seles stabbing, Graf's record is not the best ever for me, great but not the best. Especialy if you take into account doubles, Court and Martina excelleled in both. And there is the matter that she played Navratilova who is 12 years older than her and Martina still managed to tie Graf 9-9. For me that shows Martina is the better player of the two.

[trent8002003]

@quirotmutolafan You're right. Definitely not Steffi. She has a great great record that just about beats everybody except Martina. But the stabbing debacle forever contaminates her claim to being the No.1 among the champions. She was just about replaced by Monica at the top when all of a sudden, Gunter Parche pushed her back up to the top again. It's not fair to Steffi, either I know. She can blame Gunther Parche too.

[quirotmutolafan]

@trent8002003 My point is with or without Parche I consider Graf inferior to Martina and probably to Evert and Court too. The fact Martina is 13 years older than her and still managed a 9-9 head to head with her already eliminated any thought for me Graf could be the greatest ever. It wouldnt matter how many titles she had won. The reason I dont consider Graf the greatest ever has nothing to do with the stabbing really though. Just since I never thought she was in the first place.

[championxeneixe]

That crime is just did it by a crazy man or maybe somebody close to Graf pay that man to try to eliminate seles?Maybe...

[jamieleeowen1]

the monica seles that stopped playing in 2003 was not the real seles,if seles hadnt been stabbed i think she would have been dominating for years and years and still challenging today

[IloveMonica4ever]

monica has the personality that is pretty much smiliar to mine! lol never give up !

[quirotmutolafan]

@jamieleeowen1 Still challenging today! You do realize her career was ended by a chronic foot injury in mid 2003. I dont know how you propose this particular reality would have been any different without the stabbing. As for today she would be 36 years old anyway.

[JamieOwen03]

@quirotmutolafan you do realize that comment is over 2 years old! monica didn't officially retire until 2008 anyway.

and she got the foot injury probably due to extra weight? it was mental more than physical for her (even though she was overweight) 8 slams at 19 is unheard of today and no one will probably do that again!

[quirotmutolafan]

@JamieOwen03 Monica's foot problems were caused by problems with her shoe and mostly bad luck. They were not weight related. Serena the last 7 years is a huge horse, fatter than Seles at her worst, and she never had foot problems, until her latest stepping on glass in a bar or something. Either way Seles playing tennis into the late 2000s into her mid 30s? Sorry I dont see it.

[italo36]

@jamieleeowen1

you are 100% right, only Graf fans in denial want to deny that the stabbing happened and that Graf's 22 slams is a direct result of the Monica Seles stabbing.

Graf's 22 slams will always be in doubt because of the Seles stabbing and everybody knows that Seles would be the one with 22 slams and maybe even more had the stabbing not happened, Monica was that good with 8 slams already at the age of barely 19.

[fishpets]

@italo36 It's not a fact that Monica Seles would have won 22 Slams or more if she didn't get stabbed. Perhaps she would have suffered a rash of injuries during that 1993 to 1996 span that would have caused her to miss out on winning Grand Slams. And of course, Steffi Graf would have defeated Monica Seles at some Slam events as well. And by 1997, you started to see the dominance of Martina Hingis, so Seles probably wouldn't have been able to win anything after 1996.

[jayfey77]

@fishpets once more you prove your ignorance.seles managed to beat hingis at the french open in 98 or 99 i believe when she was clearly overweight and nowhere near the same player she was before the stabbing.everybody knows seles was a superior player to arantxa sanchez and would never lose to her in a grand slam.yet she did after the stabbing because she wasnt the same player anymore.so for seles to even beat hingis after the stabbing proves she would have beaten her had she not got stabbed.

[mcentepede]

@jamieleeowen1 I agree with you. Not sure why so many people don't believe this.

[nordna]

This is one reason why I could never say that Graf is the greatest of all time. The other reason of course is Martina Navratilova. Graf had no challengers for a long time, except Arantxa, Martina retired, Sabatini crashed. Graf had the easiest time of all greats without Seles. It's not graf's fault, but that's the way it is.

[IloveMonica4ever]

so sometimes u have to rely on some luck

[giulianodalfonso]

The saddest day in sport. By coming back at all Monica Seles proved herself to be a true sporting hero.

[IloveMonica4ever]

counldnt agree more! coming back is the biggest win! no matter lost or win in games!

[ucu2cloze]

All this time I believe that bitch with the forehand had something to do with it.. Seles would have dominated for another 5-6 yrs if not for this stabbing.

[jess4metoo]

I've always thought that. Let's call her Tonya Graf!

[dorker1992]

LOL TONYA!! WHAT A cheap chack name

[caliboyfromphilly]

I doubt that Graf knew Parche at all. For you to make such a statement is bold. I think Graf is rather cold and heartless for continuing but she would not harm anyone.

[quirotmutolafan]

@caliboyfromphilly I am not sure what you mean Graf is rather cold and heartless for continuing. Are you suggesting she should have stopped playing tennis just because of the Seles stabbing. If so that is ridiculous. If you mean she should have pulled out of Hamburg, yeah you are probably right but then so should the others probably and nobody pulled out it turned out.

[dwaynebuddha]

@quirotmutolafan u actully think graf should have retired cuz seles was out,what sort of retard are u

[quirotmutolafan]

@dwaynebuddha No I never said that. I said I dont consider Graf the greatest ever irregardless of the Seles stabbing. She struggled to hold even against Navratilova in her 30s, and ended her career with a 9-9 head to head vs Navratilova who is 13 years older than her. She has few if any major records, and her overall competition was poor (including considering the Seles stabbing here). I dont think in anyway Graf's level of tennis is greatest ever.

[artisking]

@quirotmutolafan

I think it is immature to argue who is the greatest ever. No one can possibly answer that question. It is too difficult to compare generations, and there are too many mitigating factors to consider.

It's a circular and pointless argument made by zealot freak fans of one particular player. And is Martina better than Graf, Graf better than Chris, Chris better than Seles, Serena better than Seles.....and so on and so on.....

It's silly...

[heninwarrior]

@artisking in all sports people will discuss who is the greatest ever or where greats rank against each other.  It happens in swimming, golf, track, football or baseball, why not tennis.

[dwaynebuddha]

@quirotmutolafan if graf retired in 89 she would still be regarded as one of the best ever the golden slam was a amazing achievement but she carrried on and beat everyone ....she doesnt ave a player that has beaten her in head to head matches .....nav was tied and thats regardless of the generation .i dont see how anyone but graf or nav could be in the race for GOAT and graf won more grand slams than nav 22-18 BAM graf wins

[mcentepede]

@dwaynebuddha Monica Seles was stabbed remember. At that point, she had nearly half of Nav or Steffi's titles. She had many good years left before the guy stabbed her. She was never the same.

[dwaynebuddha]

@mcentepede she also came back and she competed successfully until she retired it wasn't grafs fault she never played with the same intensity as she diid before the stabbing.....graf lost years due to her injuries and came back and went out like a champ in 99 shame seles couldn't have done the same

[mcentepede]

@quirotmutolafan Well said. But Seles is the best female tennis player all-time. Pre-stabbing Seles whupped Steffi Graf and Nav was intimidated by the grunts. She said that. Check your homework on that. She was lobbying to stop Seles grunts because Seles was whupping them too much. I give Chris Evert credit, she never ratted on Seles about the grunts. As it stands...after Seles I would place Chris Evert second because she has character not to rat on somebody like a cry-baby. She has class.

[fishpets]

@mcentepede Monica Seles never even won Wimbledon, whether before or after the stabbing. It's hard to call any female player the best of all-time when they never won Wimbledon. How many times did Monica Seles beat Steffi Graf before the injury? Only 4 times. That's not "whooping" someone. Your opinion is clearly biased.

[jayfey77]

@fishpets do you think conchita martinez or navratilova would have beaten seles at wimbledon in 94?only idiots would think those 2 had a chance against seles by 94.seles dominated those 2 .the stabbing kept monica from winning wimbledon.seles would have beaten graf more than 4 times if not for the stabbing she was dominating steffi when she got stabbed.the 93 australian open final proves that.by age 18 seles had 8 grand slam wins to grafs 2.do the math who was on their way to winning more slams.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

Seles never dominated Graf. Graf's game always gave Seles problems.

Graf lost a lot of matches to other players in the early 1990's, she had lost her usual form and confidence a little bit (family problems). I don't think that Seles would have won so many slams if Graf had kept her form of the late 1980's.

And you are wrong with Graf's slam titles at age 18. She won her first slam at the FO in 1987. Won the AO in 1988 and repeated the FO the same year, just before she turned 19.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 the last time they played before the stabbing seles dominated graf.8 aces to grafs 1.seles was netering her prime in 93 thats why she outaced graf.graf had won over 60 matches in a row when she met seles in 1990.so your full of shit.if graf hadnt met seles her streak would have gone on maybe to 100.thats 3 slams for graf at age 18 compared to seles's 7 at age 18.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

You are a moronic fanboy. If there is someone "full of shit" here, it's you.

What do you want to conclude from one match at the AO which was Seles' favourite surface? Don't forget that Graf won 3 of the 4 matches before that. Although she was clearly not in peak form in those years. Seles always struggled against Graf while Graf now and then was able to destroy Seles (at least on fast courts). And more than that - Graf was mentally far stronger than Seles.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 clay was her favorite surface.and that one match was the last match they played before her stabbing.it also was the 1st match where seles ever outaced graf.and that was due to seles entering her prime.the 3 matches you refer to were on small tournaments where seles lost to players like sabatini and arantxa and capriati then beat them all 2 weeks later in the grand slams.the only loss seles had to graf in a slam was the wimb and that was because she didnt grunt.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

Graf and Seles played two matches on clay when Seles was the #1 player.

Graf won one, Seles won one. The Seles win was the closer one.

Graf has a far higher winning percentage *even* on clay than Seles.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 that would be different if seles wasnt stabbed.she would have won the french open in 93.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

What makes you think so?

She barely won in 1992. And everybody knows that Graf of 1993 was better than Graf of 1992.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 because seles never outaced graf.thats how you know.the fact seles outaced graf for the first time in a match in 93 proves seles was no longer the little girl graf could overpower.seles had the power entering her prime.graf wasnt better in 93.she barely beat mary joe at the french open in 93.everybody knows novotna just choked away the match at wimb,she beat graf on that court and everybody knows it.if graf was better in 93 she would have beaten seles in 93.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

Graf was better in the second half of 1993 and in the first half of 1994 (until her back injury) than Seles ever was. The stats prove it.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 the stats prove it?how can you go by that when seles wasnt playing you dumbass.its amazing how you ignore the fact that graf wasnt winning 3 grand slams a year until seles was stabbed.you are aN IDIOT.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

Steffi wasn't winning many majors (slams + Masters) in 1991-92 because she didn't make a lot of finals (only 3 of 10).

And not because she wasn't able to beat Seles (she beat her in 3 of 4 matches in 1991-92). Steffi was always the favourite in her matches against Seles because her game didn't suit Seles.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 steffi couldnt even beat seles in 90 when seles weas only 16.seles almost beat her at age 15.the 3 matches you refer to 2 of them were in small tournaments which seles didnt care about seles lost to players like arantxa and capriati and sabatini all players she beat 2 weeks later in the slams.and the 3rd match you refer to was at wimb where seles wasnt allowed to grunt.graf wasnt the favorite when they met in 93 at the australian open.steffi couldnt even beat her at age 16.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 i think graf just was too scared to play seles most of the time.thats why she lost so many times before the finals.you really expect people to believe graf could only make 1 slam final every year and no masters from 90-92 for 3 years.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

Between July 1990 and December 1992 Steffi Graf made only 4 of 10 slam finals,

In that time she beat Seles 3 of 4 times, her only loss being this famous close FO 1992 final.

So you think Graf was scared of Seles? Or do you want to make fun of Seles?

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 graf only beat seles once in a grand slam.and it was due to seles not being able to grunt.so i know graf was scared of seles.especially since seles beat her at age 16.and graf didnt make the masters in 1990 either.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

Graf beat Seles three times in slam finals (Wimbledon 1992, USO 1995, USO 1996). Three more times in slams before the finals (FO 1989, Wimbledon 1989, FO 1999). And four times in non-slams (Brighton 1989, San Antonio 1991, Hamburg 1991, Chase Champs 1998). Evenly divided on all those years, all surfaces, all tournaments (slam, non-slam), finals and earlier rounds.

Seles beat Graf only 5 times. All of them on (slow) clay or very slow hardcourt (AO).

Graf scared of Seles?

LOL

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 we are talking about before the stabbing.doesnt matter what happened after the stabbing because seles wasnt seles anymore.thats why she would lose to players she used to dominate like arantxa sanchez.you are a dumbass.i already told you seles didnt give a damn about small tournaments except her first year on the tour.thats why she lost to players she beat 2 weeks later in the slams.like capriati and sabatini and arantxa.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

Where is your proof that Seles didn't give a damn about small tournaments?

She won more than 40 of them!

OK, maybe Seles wanted those slam wins more than Graf and Sabatini. Graf had won so many already and Sabatini was more interested to look good. 

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 proof is seles losing to players in small tournaments she later beat 2 weeks later in the slams you dumbass.she lost to sabatini in 91 and 92 shortly before the french in rome.she beat sabatini at the french in both 91 and 92.she lost to arantxa in 92 at the canadian shortly before the us open where she whipped her.she lost to capriati in 91 in san diego shortly before the us open and beat her there.you are a dumbass.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 seles showed at age 15 she could play with graf on a fast court at brighton.seeing that match showed seles would beat graf the next year and she did.also at wimb in 90 seles played zina tougher than graf did the round before.she had a match point on zina and graf never came that close to beating zina like seles did.seles actually won that match but a bad no call cost her that match.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

Steffi lost to a 15-year-old Hingis in 1996. And Seles lost to a 15-year-old Capriati twice (!) in 1991/92 which showed that Capriati was set to overtake Seles very soon.

But as a 15-year-old Seles was never able to beat Steffi.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 seles at 15 wasnt good enough yet.she almost was though.taking graf to 3 sets.she beat her at 16 anyways.and capriati wasnt winning grand slams and the masters every year like seles was.so to compare her to seles shows what a dumbass you are.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 i like how you count only the seles wins before the stabbing but you count all the wins graf had over seles after the stabbing.this proves how biased you are. and also what a dumbass you are.seles had a winning record over graf before the stabbing if you take away grafs 3 wins over seles in 89 when seles was only 15 and barely played that year on the tour.thats like saying chang was better than sampras if you only go by the wins from 89-91.seles showed domination over graf in 93.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

In the 10-5 head-to-head count the one Seles win post-stabbing is included.

Sorry, it is a fact that Steffi Graf had a winning record against Seles in EVERY part of their careers. Before Seles became #1, when Seles was #1 pre-stabbing, and post-stabbing. In EVERY period Steffi won most matches against Seles.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 graf only had a winning record because seles got stabbed.what if sampras got stabbed in 91.in 91 chang had a huge lead on sampras in the win department despite the fact that bv 91 sampras was already better than chang.you are a dumbass.seles lost to graf 3 times in 89 take those away seles had a 4-3 lead on graf head to head.and it would have gotten even wider if she hadnt been stabbed.everybody knows that.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

You want to compare Chang with Graf?

Why should we take away Graf's three 1989 wins? Because Seles was "too young" at 15? Isn't 16 also "too young"? Or do you conveniently just start counting with Seles's first win in 1990? IF Seles had lost those two matches in 1990 but won the two matches in 1991 (which she lost to Graf) would you have started to count in 1990 or 1991?

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 im not comparing chang with graf you dumbass.chang had a winning record against sampras.he beat sampras his first year on the tour more than once.just like grad did seles.so to say a player is better than another because they beat them their first year on a tour is stupid.which is what you are doing.because we both know sampras and seles were better than chang and graf and both proved it.seles didnt play a full year on the tour at 15 and she still took graf to 3 sets.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

You really think that #1 Sampras lost most of his matches against Chang?

As #1 Seles did against Graf?

You are retarded beyond any belief ...

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 no i said sampras lost to chang his first few years on the tour you dumbass.not when he was number 1.if sampras had been stabbed in 91 he would have had a losing record against chang.so this shows what kind of stupid logic your using.going by a player losing to another player thier first year on the tour.it doesnt mean they are better.as sampras proved.,lendl also lost to connors alot his first few years on the tour before beating him easily.dumbass

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

But when Seles was WTA #1 she lost 5 of 7 matches to Graf.

2-5!

Isn't that the worst record ever for a #1 player against an opponent in the history of the game? I mean that is losing more than 70 (!) percent of your matches against another player. Although you are at #1!

And we must not forget that one of those 2 wins was the FO 92 final. When Seles won an extremely close match with 10-8 in the final set. So it could easily have been 1-6 against #1 Seles. Just imagine!!

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 not when they are small tournaments you dumbass.seles was losing to players she beat 2 weeks later in the slams.like sabatini capriati and arantxa.all players she lost to in small tourneys then beat em 2 weeks later in the slams.you know nothing.seles won that first set 6-2 in the 92 fo.she was just playing with graf.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

Seles just playing? By winning against Steffi with 10-8 in the third set on her favourite surface?

#1 Seles beat Graf only twice, both were tough three-setter. While Graf beat #1 Seles five (!) times. Three of those wins were easy two-setters.

Graf is 12-6 in sets against #1 Seles.

12-6 ...

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 yup thats why she won the first set 6-2.she could have beaten her easily in straight sets.she was just playing with her.seles likes to play long matches at roland garros.lol at tough.the 93 australian open wasnt a tough 3 setter.it was 6-3 and 6-2 in the 2nd and 3rd sets.thats not tough you dumbass.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

You are too young to have watched the FO 92 final, right? Never saw the second set, yes? Never watched how Graf hit far more winners than Seles?

"Not tough"?

"Not tough" were Steffi's two wins against #1 Seles in San Antonio 1991 (6-4 6-3) and in Wimbledon 1992 (6-2 6-1). Steffi was toying with Seles in those matches. Although she was in a slump in those years.

You should watch these matches. They are on YouTube. Great ass whooping!!!

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 too young?what does that have to do with watching a dvd?i have buster keaton movies from 1915.age doesnt matter you.i saw how seles stopped playing hard and wasnt even trying anymore.she could have ended the match 6-2.6-2.if you saw the first set you would know this.san antonio haha.sels didnt care about small tournaments you dumbass except her first year on the tour in 90.and in wimb seles didnt grunt thats why she lost that match.i like how you graf fans ignore thiss huge fact.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

You are the first who says that Seles "didn't try anymore" in the second set of the FO 92.

That's even idiotic for a Seles fanatic.

And if Seles "didn't care for small tournaments" why did she win 14 of them in 1991/92?

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 that match could have been over in under an hour.seles played on clay against courier and chang and agassi.she knew she could beat graf anytime she wanted on that court you fool.you know nothing hoff.you are a dumbass.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 seles was already dominating graf when she got stabbed.you know it and everybody knows it.thats why she got stabbed you retard.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

Dominating?

Graf won 3 of 5 matches against #1 Seles before the stabbing (60 %). Two easy two-setter and one three-setter. Seles's two wins were tough three-setters. Taken all together Graf won 8 of 13 sets against #1 Seles pre-stabbing. That is 62 %. So it is safe to say that Graf dominated #1 Seles pre-stabbing. 60 % in matches won, even 62 % in sets won.

You are quite dumb. Say, you must be a Seles fan, right? They are perhaps the dumbest tennis fans in the world.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 you are going by small tournament matches and not by the last match they played before the stabbing.you are going by matches that they played when seles was 15!thats like judging sampras and chang by their first 3 years only on the tour you dumbass when chang dominated sampras.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

The last two matches in big tournaments saw a 6-2 6-1 win for Steffi and a 4-6 6-3 6-2 win for Seles. Advantage Steffi.

The last two matches in small tournaments saw two wins for Steffi - a 6-4 6-3 and a 7-5 6-7 6-3. Big advantage Steffi.

And all that while Steffi was clearly in a slump. Go figure ...

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 you shouldnt count 89 because seles barely played that year you dumbass.she didnt lay the full year.she hadnt played so much that she wasnt even ranked in 89.you can watch my seles vs evert 89 houston for proof on that they mention it.if sampras had been stabbed in 92 he would have had a losing record against chang.but we both know he was better than chang.judging a player by their first year proves what a dumbass you are.seles had a 4-3 edge over graf without those 3 89 wins.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

You are a dumb liar.

As always.

Seles was #6 at the end of 1989. And #16 at the start of the FO 89.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 i can't believe there is people as stupid as you in the world.the fact i had to explain all this to you proves you are stupid.everybody knows why seles lost the 92 final you dumbass.everybody knows seles didnt try as hard in small tournament like she did in grand slams.proof of that was losing to players she beat 2 weeks later in the slams.everybody knows seles fav surface was clay.if graf was mentally stronger she wouldnt have lost the 93 AO.she showed how weak she was there.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

What a fanatical asshole you are.

[jayfey77]

@Meade3763 it's a damn shame seles got stabbed she could have shut you up and proved you wrong in her prime years.graf mostly played a young girl in seles who hadnt even grown into her body yet.when seles entered her prime in 93 she outaced graf 8 aces to 1.to ignore this fact proves what a dumbass you are.

[Meade3763]

@jayfey77

In 1995 Seles had "grown into her body", yes.

[catboxcatboxcatbox]

Insread of tragedy what could have happened how about triumph that she came back and won the Australian Open.

[Wht4BlkNC]

It was more than an "attack". It was attempted murder.