@dpinkentucky No offense, but think about the word faith. What is the definition of faith? When one really thinks about it for a second, faith is absolutely ridiculous. In fact, what else in your life would you install faith in? Would you cross the street with out looking both ways, just off faith? Would you loan a stranger 10,000 dollars, just off faith? The more one thinks about it, the more faith sounds absurd.
@bartguys If God does exist then he/it has no need for a nation but every nation needs God. So it is imperative that a nations policy be driven by the faith of its citizens not the other way around.
This pastor portends that conservatives derive faith from nationalism. Yet, I find it is liberals, not conservatives, who derive their faith from their political views.
btw, that whole semite thing really seems to bug you.
1) America did not get rich off of slavery, America was nearly destroyed over the issue of slavery.
2) America has turned the other cheek again and again. For example, Germany and Japan post WWII, efforts to bring freedom to the middle east in response to 9/11 each at great cost to us.
3) If anything, churches are overly involved in leftist politics by calling upon Caesar to use taxes to force people into philanthropy instead of allowing them to make a freewill sacrifice of their own.
1) America did not get rich off of slavery, America was nearly destroyed over the issue of slavery.
2) America has turned the other cheek again and again. For example, Germany and Japan post WWII, efforts to bring freedom to the middle east in response to 9/11 each at great cost to us.
3) If anything, churches are overly involved in leftist politics by calling upon Caesar to use taxes to force people into philanthropy instead of allowing them to make a freewill sacrifice of their own.
@dpinkentucky 2) quit trying to equivocate Jesus to American foreign policy.... ur an idiot. FREEDOM?? TO THE MIDDLE EAST??by trying to have Israels's back cuz some fetish with "David, Abraham" and all them dudes come on get over yourself dude. WE'VE BEEN DROPPING BOMBS!! IS THAT WHAT JESUS WOULD DO?? 9/11 we've had a presence over there for oil since Eisenhower. (smh)
3) Everyone deserves to have food, shelter, etc. without philanthropy and is right in of itself.socialism/Jesus
@dpinkentucky america makes nazi germany look like the red cross.america has more blood on its hands than any nation in history.Your right wing churches are full of blasphemy.Vicious idol worshippers.Peace
The Neo-Cons have always used the Christian movement as their puppets. They don't care at all about the faith or the people who subscribe to it. They just use fear to advance their political philosophies and they find that's easiest to do through the Christian community. As a result, people are becoming fed up with Christians not because of their faith but because of their politics.
I just finished reading this book. Thank you for such a powerful eye opening message!
And if this isnt telling. compare the views received for these videos:
Do a YouTube search typing "Obama Mocks & Attacks Jesus Christ and the Bible" to see that there are over 2 million views. Then do a Youtube search typing "combating domestic violence" or "how to end poverty" and see that most of these videos have gotten far far fewer views.
christians will seek political power today as they think that the law of GOd makes men holy and so must be enforced on unbelievers.
But such a view is in total violation of the scriptures (read Romans and Galatians).
therefore, seekingpolitical power to enforce Law on men is not only in error, it is evil and these churches are apostate, these individuals backslidden
there is no such thing as a christian nation. Why? All the nations are arranged against God (Psalm 2). and Jesus said strait (ie small) is the gate and narrow the way that FEW there are who find it"
that being so one would never get the numbers to start a christian nation . so they dont exist.
moreover nations are ruled by Law, christians are supposed to live by GRACE.
this pastor is correct, they seek politics as they have compromised with the world
I wholly agree with Dr. Boyd. It's so easy to get caught up in the Conservative/ Liberal political debate and lose sight of the Lord. That's why I don't vote.(I'll probably get some flack for saying that) :P
Nope, you're fine---I don't vote either, haven't ever... I didn't put my hope in people even when I was an atheist.
Our battles aren't with the flesh and the fight for nations, our battle is spiritual... anything else is only to take you from the focus of the true war.
God is the true giver of freedom--not men, and if He takes it away--Praise Him still..
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798
What is the point here? The the Constitution was created to rule people who have morals? What morality? Christian morality or the humanist morality that was embraced by the Enlightment. W/e moralist is fine for your quote but it does not mean that this is a Christian Nation. I do not see the point of this quote.
US liberty is granted first by a creator at birth and only recognized and upheld by the US constitution as a birth-right as such. Why, because if mere men or documents alone granted you liberty only a mere man or document can take it away! This is the distinction from American Liberty & why all men are created equal, evolution surly does not teach this but Christianity does. The basic notion of American liberty & freedom for all is by a God-given birth-right & a non-secular view historically.
@THOMASWML3 What furthers the Kingdom is the enlargement of it. To enlarge the Kingdom people need to get saved. Politics will not save, but the blood of the lamb.
Generally right, but a caveat: He just needs to acknowledge defense as a natural reaction to danger. At times I believe Christians should be involved in acts of defense. Prayer and Ecclesiastes 4 should help the decision.
Christians like Muslims promote lies and confusion about Jews and the Rabbi on the Roman Cross, that Christians in over 200 years can notbe original stealing from the Rabbi. Its easy to use a dead Rabbi, He can not defend himself. Americans founding fathers were ALL MASONS!
@Lightia Jesus died because He opposed Pharisaic Judaism. We have four contemporary authors who wrote the gospels based on firsthand accounts. We know what kind of Person Jesus was, and what He believed. He was not a Talmudic Jew as you suppose.
@tertiuscarstens The Talmud contains midrash and commentary on the Old Testament. The written Talmud did not exist in Christ's time, but only existed in the form of oral law, which is referred to in the New Testament as the "traditions of men." Jesus did not respect the Pharisees' traditions. He did obey the Old Testament law though because He had to fulfill the law on our behalf. It is a different matter to say Christians need to keep the law.
@mayartay I know what the Talmud is. I know that it was codified after His life on earth. And I know about the Isaiah 29:13 that Messiah quotes in Matthew 15:9.
He did uphold quite a few Talmudic statutes. If you want me to make you a list, I will do so. I'm not saying we should, I'm just saying, don't state that He didn't, because that is just not true.
Saying that fulfillment means that He had to obey them shows lack of understanding. He had to obey to be viewed and be without sin.
@tertiuscarstens I would be interested in knowing any Pharisaic traditions that Jesus "obeyed" that cannot be found in the Old Testament. I had no idea the Church is so Judaized that Christians are now wanting to respect the Talmud! Do you want to obey that POS as well?
@mayartay POS? I think you need to calm down and reassess your relationship with your saviour given your behaviour.
And just because "Lightia" called Him a Rabbi doesn't mean anything else than that He was a Rabbi. He was a Rabbi.
Here are some examples: Priest are innocent even though they work on Shabbat - Matt 12:5; Restricting travel on Shabbat appropriate - Matt 24:20; Reclining at the Passover seder was appropriate - Matt 26:20.
Jesus said in Mt. 12:5 "Have you not read in the law". Do you think He might have been referring to the OT instead of the Talmud?? See Num. 28:9, 10 and 1 Chr. 9:32.
Travel on the Sabbath was prohibited in Exodus 16:29. Perhaps you should learn the Bible before adopting another religion supposedly on the basis of Scripture.
By your absurd reasoning, anyone who reclines at a table on the Passover recognizes the Talmud as authoritative!
'Jesus never once allowed the politics of his day to se his agenda."
So true. I'm a Christian, and I agree with Dr. Boyd here.
There are beliefs that I firmly hold, and they're not popular, yet even still I don't align myself with any particular political party.
Christianity and Nationalism are not one and the same, and I'm sick and tired of people who think that only conservative Christians are "good Americans".
Gregory Boyd is as much a Christian as is Barry Lynn, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson & George Bush. He asks; "Is it really good to fuse our faith to a political cause"? Lets look to some real Christians for the answer. The Continental Congress during the Revolutionary War was nicknamed the "Bible Congress". The battle cry was; "rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God". After the war, the founders credited the Providence of God for the victory. With an entire society knowing that their new nation
was made possible by the Providence of God, Benjamin Franklin warned Thomas Paine that the worst thing he could do is publish "Age Of Reason". Paine didn't deny the existence of God, only his Providence. The other founders expressed their disdain for him in writing & society disowned him. He lived the remainder of his years in obscurity in New York & no American cemetery accepted his body. He was buried in a field. That grave were the consequences of his book & he wasn't an Atheist. What does
that say about early American society? "The Myth Of A Christian Nation"? Gregory Boyd is lucky he didn't publish his book at the time of "Age Of Reason". 1st President Washington said; "religion is necessary for good government & the happiness of the people". 2nd Pres. John Adams said; "our Constitution was created for a religious & moral people, it is wholly inadequate to the government of any other". 3rd Pres. Thomas Jefferson called for 8 straight years of weekly, Sunday, Christian church
service held within the House Of Representatives, or the Treasury building or the Supreme Court chambers. 4th Pres. James Madison followed Jefferson's lead with 8 more years of the same. America's "Ivy League" Universities were theological institutions. A theological education was primary & a secular education was secondary. Their graduates became the prominent, influential men of the country. If Christians had never fused Christianity with politics, there would have never been a USA. Now, Jesus
Boyd says that Jesus never touched politics. Isn't it interesting that even before he was born, he was already influencing politics... King Herod wanted him dead. His years of ministry climaxed with both local Roman & Hebrew government enthralled in a judicial/political, major event. It was Jesus only being who he was & saying what he said that had such an impact upon politics. Jesus & God the Father are the same. God established ancient Israel in which religion & politics were
indistinguishable one from the other. Kings were not God's plan. Israel was ruled by judges according to God's Law. Interestingly, in America, the Supreme Court was for many years (the good years), a Christian stronghold. A Republic, governed by the rule of righteous law. Today, the Supreme Court has been largely disgraced by criminals who intentionally & deceptively make law to get around "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor prohibit the practice thereof".
The framers of the Constitution mentioned only Congress because only Congress is authorized to make law... but not in regards to religion. Thus, the evil ones have been outlawing Christianity from the Supreme Court bench. The "Father of the Constitution" called for church service within the House of Representatives & today's so called, justices decree it unconstitutional to make any mention of God within schools or any public place.
You'd think persons in that position would know early American history. I'm a high school dropout and can much more competently interpret the US Constitution than can those cretinous ignoramuses
@Chuichupachichi Boyd believes Christians should be involved in politics. Do you want to require nonbelievers to become Christians and pray to Jesus in public schools or what?
Pastor Boyd is correct. Christianity has become politicized by the politicians, and Christians should be very angry about that. Jesus never allowed the politics of his day to set his agenda. It's all about what we want to look like: Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, or the Empire. They are diametrically opposed. Think about it folks.
RE: "My kingdom is not of this world" That's quite true. The Kingdom of God is supposed to transcend race and nationalism and all that, and welcome all the children of God. "There is not Jew or Greek, no male or female, no slave or free, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." That was used as a baptismal formula centuries ago, and it contrasted the pagan ancestor and nation worship. This is why Christianity is (and is meant to be) UNIVERSAL or, to use a Anglicized Greek word: Catholic
Also, let me say this: I was born in and grew up near Washington DC. When you go to the National Mall and you see what we build monuments to, you can clearly see that we're not building monuments to Jesus or God. Look at the cover of his book: the Statue of LIberty is on it. Not Jesus. And that's fine, perfectly ok. This nation is for all kinds of citizens, not just Christians. I can afford to share my freedom with any person here, Christian or not. I don't see a problem.
I think part of the problem I'm seeing in the comments here is that people are defining "believe" as "give intellectual assent to." The deepest meaning of "believe" is "to belove." It speaks of what you hold close to your heart, what you value. Not an intellectual proposition, provable or not by empirical means. And when you are dealign with matters of the heart, that has nothing to do with intellect and "proof." Besides, if you have proof, you don't have faith. They're mutually exclusive.
Interesting. He makes a lot of the same points anti-theists make about the history & rise to power of Christianity. Most Christians seem to get extremely angry when atheists say these things.
@4me2cclearly Jesus compared believers to sheep, but that being the case, where does that leave unbelievers? At least Christians have some idea of Who the Chief Shepherd is.
I wouldn't say that a Christian Nation isn't possible, but when you have leaders who openly deny Christ with their mouth, and in their actions, all you have is caricature of Christianity, and it's just not right.
The video description says that "Boyd is no liberal," yet Boyd admits in the interview that he's a pacifist. Case closed. He needs to try reading the Bible more.
@burningsodium Well, most liberals are not pacifists; their belief in gun control is focused on regulating the obtaining of firearms, not getting rid of them. Most liberals think pacifists are dumb, which is unfortunate. The Amish, Hutterites, and Mennonites are not liberals.
Yes, and the verse this reminds me of is Galatians 3:28: There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female, for you are one in Christ Jesus.
What a wonderful thing! Tribalism out the window. Gender issues out the window. Economic class out the window. Yah!! All coming to one table. How brilliant (and subversive) that is!
It's all about the love. Love, love, love. "Love one another"
"Jesus said" - to be able to use this as a basis for your argument, you must first provide the proof the bible and jesus are real or exist. Please submit these so-called "studies". To believe all Atheists are incapable of morality only proves your ignorance.
@mad4mtl There is a ton of evidence. Read his book "The Jesus Legend" where he discusses the historical reliability of Jesus. It's the most comprehensive book on the subject.
after starting looking at some issues in religion, and debating my belief in Christianity I would say I am atheist and while communism and atheism do have some historical connections, culture can be far more restricting than a government policy in many cases. I've decided no matter what your beliefs there are problems with your logic and you will find some way to justify evil acts if you want to commit them. No matter who you are I think you can agree power does corrupt a person.
I think you have to admit atheism is pretty convenient if you seek to be free from a sense of moral obligation. There are certainly wolves among true Christians though.
Christians are subject to the same temptations (i.e., pride, deception/faulty reasoning, presumption, etc) as everyone else, but we have a God who is the Source of all truth and righteousness, and who is able to instruct those who depend on him. Absolute truth exists independently of human failure.
Atheism doesn't free you from moral obligation. It emphasizes the fact that we have moral obligations that are higher than what bronze-age folk tales or cultist priests dictate to us. Atheists identify absolute truth and morality's independence from god and the importance of adhering to virtue for its own value, not under threat of divine retribution
Religion is a convenient source of morality for those who cannot and will not see or do what is right without the penalty of eternal damnation
Isn't it strange that the average "man on the street" tends to adopt a "do what thou wilt" attitude when assured there is no god and no absolute moral standards? Your "sermon" is virtually ineffective in the real world. Ultimately, all that moral atheists can do is rely on police power. Might makes right. Survival of the fittest. Hmm, where have I heard that before?
manonmount, your rhetoric, like everything else I see from atheists, is filled with accusations against Christians. For one thing, most Christians do not follow Christ merely to avoid eternal damnation. Sure, that works from maybe age 7 to age 18 at the latest, but then a decision must be made as to whether it really makes sense and whether God is real. Atheists, unable to comprehend the decision to follow Christ, just say we are scared of Hell.
Also, "bronze age cultists"?? And "atheists... adhere to virtue for its own value"?? Haha!
Get real, dude!! Atheists are no more moral than anyone else, and I've heard of some studies which show they tend to be less moral. A large number of them have psychological issues related to their fathers, if they even had one.
America is a nation, not a church. Anybody who is not a member of your religion has no reason to take any notice at all of what is written in a Bronze-Age book of myth. Aside from the unicorns and talking snakes and donkeys and the requirement to practice ritualized cannibalism we see that your god commanded his people to rip little girls from the bloody arms of their dead mothers and take them home to share them with YHVH's priests. This is the book you are basing your morality on? How obscene.
I'm atheist and my moral fibre comes from my brain. Honestly, if someone actually needs a rule book to tell them what's right and what's wrong, then honestly I wouldn't trust them any further than I could throw them.
And if the god character exists, then I can actually take positive pride in knowing that my moral standards are by far above god's moral standards.
"Honestly, if someone actually needs a rule book to tell them what's right and what's wrong, then honestly I wouldn't trust them any further than I could throw them."
I see. In that case, let's not allow children to read books since they should be able to innately know right from wrong. Pure genius!
@mayartay So basically what you're saying is that you're incapable of having any moral fibre what so ever without being _told_ what's right and what's wrong?
I'm sorry to hear that you need a crutch or an artificial substitute such as the world's most sadistic peice of literature, as the bible.
Like I said, I'm an atheist, and I turned out pretty good. I don't need religion or any finger waggling to tell me that killing is bad, and you don't see me out there killing people.
@mayartay Hey and by the way, guess what a great tool to replace religion and the bible is:
Proper Parenting.
Oh my god! Could it be that proper parenting does more for a child's emotional well being and development than the bible, religion and the fear of god that ties them both together?
Yep.
But your implication is right, children should read books, but there's plenty of books out there that don't psychologically torture children through fear and terror.
@berner If a father and mother have no fear of God, they can not be good parents. Even non-Christians have some knowledge of God and some fear of Him, whether they consciously realize it or not. I'm sorry you were terrorized by the Bible. What was the scariest one - the story of the flood? Yeah, kids have nightmares about it all the time. lol
@mayartay And see that's where I keep religion far away from morality. Needing "fear" to ensure children develop into morally upstanding members of society. For me, telling a child that X is right and Y is wrong and giving them a reason for it far outweighs "If you do X, I swear to god I will punish you SO badly and if I can't do it, remember that an imaginary being is alwasy watching you!". I thought the stories of bears killing children, stoning chidren and smashing children on rocks was scary
@mayartay Most children have a pretty good sense of right and wrong without any books at all. It's mostly about a sense of empathy and you don't get that from books, you get it from how you're treated. The fact is that our sense of "right and wrong" (which are of couse relative), come from our survival "instincts" and our character as social animals, period.
@mayartay what I think he meant was, he got his morals from his parents. that is where I got mine from anyway.. and you don't need some 2000 year old fairytale to tell you what is right and wrong. That's just ridiculous.
@allmanjoy Of course it does, because morality began at the creation when God endowed humans with His nature - man is made in God's image according to Genesis One. Religion, specifically the Christian religion, came much later. In the Garden of Eden, we see humans in RELATIONSHIP with God. True Christianity is still about having a relationship with God.
@mayartay According to my God given reason, I see no reason to accept a book as the word of God. That being said, references to the divinity of the Bible have no bearing with me.
@berner Actually, the word of God says that God wrote his Law (moral fibre) on our hearts. Tests have shown that even nations where there s no written language and no contsct to the outside world, they had established laws in their communities that were consistent with the ten commandments. So, you cannot take credit for what someone wrote on your heart even before you were thought about.
You have actually proven the existence of God by believing in morality. Morality requires a standard given by a perfect being, we know as God. I respect your viewpoints, but I would say that morality comes from Judeo-Christian ethics.
@berner Where does your brain come from? Where do you derive your morals? Did you not know that morals come only from God? This is something that I have come to learn and confirm each day: "I may deny God, you may deny God, the whole world may deny God, yet, He will always be real." You wrote, "And if the God character really exists"... which means you've thought it a possibility, I say explore that possibility and it's okay to question God's existence. I'm sure you are in for a surprise.
this guy makes no sense. He believes all the same nonsense the politicized christians believe, and is his arguments against being political are easily dismissed...by himself !! , during this discussion. I would love to see him debate Hitchens or Sam Harris and be brought to tears
I am a Christian who is also a Democrat. I agree with so much of what Pastor Boyd says. I hear politics all week long and that is not what i want to hear in church. At a church I want to hear about God and want to do the work of Jesus such as helping the illiterate read, make sure that the sick and poor have food and heat, etc. Stop telling me how to vote !
I agree! I once got an email from a well known pastor suggesting who I should vote for in a presidential election. I could almost have puked! I couldn't un-subscribe quickly enough!
The same pastor got into politics again by interviewing both presidential candidates. That interview was very biased since one candidate heard the questions in advance!
Hitler was raised Catholic and killed MANY people but did NOT kill in the name of religion but atheists LOVE to pin this one on religion....While atheists may not have killed in the NAME of their religion, atheists have still killed more than theists throughout history...
Another aspect to look at is the fact that even if Hitler was raised Catholic, he despised religion and wanted to create a new utopia and was looking where to hang his ideologies on. Furthermore, if atheists want to call him a Christian, which he plainly wasnt, they have to admit that he committed these crimes AGAINST Christian beliefs, but Atheists commit their crimes as a result of their beliefs, there is a very big difference between the two that are not acknowledged by atheists.
[CONITNUED] homosexuals & not cause them physical harm but will proactively vote to deny them federal marriage rights. 1 is bad, 1 is worse, neither are good.
Not all Christians are bad people, but believing in something with no evidence by an unquestionable authority can cause HUGE PROBLEMS because it robs you of free thought. As soon as the church/bible tells you what God wants then religious/cult-like people will follow without question. Xians believe "a man that lie with another man shall be put to death". A true literal devout Xian will either KILL a gay person or carry picket signs like "GOD HATES FAGS". A moderate Xian will love [2B continued]
@tertiuscarstens I said I've never known one Christian who believes "ALL those laws" are good for today. Do you obey Deuteronomy 13:12-18 by killing people who try to lead Christians astray from the Christian faith?
That's really cute (gag, vomit) that you think all of Moses' laws are good for today.
@mayartay I'm more than open to discuss this since you seem to disagree that "those laws" are of any importance. There is no need for the atonement of sin by sacrifices, because our Messiah died on the cross and His blood atoned for our sins. That doesn't mean that those laws that are not to do with the blood sacrifices need to be ignored. Instead they should be obeyed.
You *gag/vomit* comments doesn't belong in argument. I can say the same back to you. Why do you think they have ceased?
@tertiuscarstens The Old Testament laws are only important in the sense that they can teach us spiritual truths, but the New Testament makes it clear that Christians are not under the Law. Have you ever read the book of Galatians?
The sentence with "gag/vomit" immediately follows the sentence in which I asked if you obey the law that says to kill those who would lead you astray from the faith. That law, frankly, makes me want to vomit. Obviously, you feel differently about it.
@mayartay I have read the book of Galations, we are no longer under the curse of Torah. I agree whole heartedly. Should we now disobey YHWH's teaching? Hardly.
Look, we need to be prayerful about what offends us. He will come back and kill those who fall short. You may be sad, but please don't be offended.
Messiah interprets Torah for us when it comes to stoning and some other things. If you'd like to discuss this further, lets chat somewhere where we can debate scripture as commanded. :)
@tertiuscarstens Nobody disputes that Jesus will judge those who do evil, but as I pointed out, the Old Testament commands believers to kill unbelievers. Are you implying that Jesus said we are not to obey the law which says to kill unbelievers who seek to lead God's people astray? Where is that written?
You can say that I or my beliefs make you gag or vomit, but what compares with the brutal murder of nonbelievers? Christ came and abolished the "law of commandments expressed in ordinances" (Eph. 2:15). If the law is good for today, we are all dead. The Old Covenant "heavens and earth" have passed away, and now we are under the New Covenant.
As an atheist, I do not follow the ignorant, and hateful teachings of the old testament. I treat others the way I would like to be treated because I would like the same respect. It is common since.
And I did not say it. Jesus did. The Old Testament is no longer in effect some might say. Perhaps they should read where Jesus makes it clear: "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
@4me2cclearly The old heavens and earth did pass away with the passing of the Old Covenant. That ended with the Roman conquest of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the complete destruction of the temple. The Bible routinely uses metaphoric language, which often appears in the writings of the prophets. The Book of Revelation records that the heavens and earth passed away. Throughout Revelation, Jesus or the angel speaking said these things would come to pass soon, not after 21 centuries.
@mayartay The same was said about Adam dying after eating the fruit.
If you claim that "heavens and earth passing away" when Messiah spoke it was in fact speaking about the detruction of the Temple, you need to add some proof to this. Saying that there is often metaphoric language used doesn't prove your point.
I could say the same thing about various sins and sin all I want, it was metaphoric after all! As an example of that rule just not working.
@tertiuscarstens Do you like to pretend I didn't explain my reasons for making that assertion???
I supported my statement by saying that Revelation (chapter 21) says there is a new heaven and earth, and Revelation was to have been fulfilled very soon after the words were penned. Jesus returned spiritually in 70 AD.
Read the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24. Jesus was speaking about events leading to the destruction of the temple, and He said it would happen in "this generation".
@allmanjoy The Old Testament contained types, symbols, and prophecies that were fulfilled in the New Testament. I have studied the Bible and am satisfied that God worked in history to bring about the appearance of the Messiah at the right time. It is the fault of humans that God could not have taught us the whole truth long ago.
@mayartay The OT was written first. How convenient! Whatever is responsible for our being also gave us the ability to sniff out frauds like the Bible and other "divine" revelations.
You say you've studied the Bible? How so? If you've really studied it, you'd see the scam, the blatant blasphemy, and the untruth. You'd also see the evil human invention of religion.
@allmanjoy Don't you see how absurd it is to say that anyone who believes in the Bible could not have studied it? The assertion is easily disproven since millions of people have studied the Bible, and still believe. I could just as easily say that anyone who has seriously studied the idea that God does not exist cannot be an atheist!
@mayartay What's most absurd is thinking that the Creator left its essence within a human invention. The Intelligence that put together all the elements necessary for our universe needed men to give us "His Word," ridiculous! And yes, millions, even billions can be wrong.
@allmanjoy The world has undeniable absurdities anyway. In the context of this world instead of whatever world you might imagine, Christianity makes more sense than any other religion or philosophy.
@allmanjoy I'm sorry, but that question is way too broad for me to answer here. The cornerstone of the Christian faith is Christ and the resurrection. If I had time, I would argue that Jesus' words reveal Him to be the Son of God, and that there is historical evidence that Christ rose from the dead. His disciples certainly believed it, and were willing to die for their beliefs. Again, however, I cannot go into such detail. BOOKS have been written on these topics, you know.
@mayartay "The cornerstone of the Christian faith is Christ and the resurrection."
Yet the Gospels don't agree with each other. This is the Son of God we're talking about but the writers just didn't deliver. You see, we have undeniable truth in the Creation itself which speaks a universal language. What we find in the Bible is one contradiction after another. Where are the contradictions in Nature?
I can't base my life on the pages of a book. I'm not sorry about it. I've been there.
@allmanjoy I am working on a book that might interest you, which I will post a video about before the end of the year.
The crazy thing about the minor contradictions in the gospels is that three of the gospel writers knew what was written before them and they didn't care. They weren't trying to put things in exact chronological order (except Luke I think). Each put a different "spin" on Jesus' life for the audience to whom they wrote. If that makes you dismiss it all as fiction, so be it.
@mayartay Thomas Paine did an excellent job of disproving the Bible with the Bible over two hundred years ago. So those "minor contradictions" aren't really minor and they are only a fraction of why I dismiss the entire collection of fables.
Of course the Gospels do not agree with each other because they were written decades after the supposed Jesus' death. Also, if this man was the greatest to have ever walked the earth, why didn't he put pen to paper?
@mayartay "Each put a different "spin" on Jesus' life" Or they just lie outright, such as Matthew making up the lie of the "slaughter of the innocents" to fake a "fulfillment" of Hosea's prophecy (Matthew 2:13-15). If you view intentional lies as "minor contradictions" and if you don't mind a few contradictions in your "inerrant word of God", you might want to reconsider your definition of truth...
@Imaginefree69 It's clear that whoever wrote the gospels had a copy of the Greek Septuagint (sp?) version of the old testament in front of them, because it includes the errors made in that Greek text. In fact, there are no ancient copies of the gospels in Hebrew--strange, since the disciples were supposedly Jewish. But not at all strange if the gospels were written by Greek-speaking gentiles.
"strange, since the disciples were supposedly Jewish"
Yes, very strange indeed. Especially considering the emphasis placed on the claim that the disciples were "uneducated fishermen" and so forth. Being Jewish, there is a good chance they might have learned to read and write Hebrew, but it's hard to justify calling those fluent in two widely divergent languages "uneducated."
(Of course, the connection between ignorance and embracing irrational religion is never examined...)
No historical evidence? Just what would you define as "historical evidence"?.........How about manuscripts written by eyewitnesses before other eyewitnesses? How about manuscripts written by others such as Josephus? Not good enough. Did Julius Caesar really exist? Any historical evidence for that?
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@dpinkentucky Plus, don't you think faith is a ironic gift to return to the "creator" of human intelligence?
aprox23 2 weeks ago in playlist Christian Nation?
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aprox23 2 weeks ago in playlist Christian Nation?
@dpinkentucky No offense, but think about the word faith. What is the definition of faith? When one really thinks about it for a second, faith is absolutely ridiculous. In fact, what else in your life would you install faith in? Would you cross the street with out looking both ways, just off faith? Would you loan a stranger 10,000 dollars, just off faith? The more one thinks about it, the more faith sounds absurd.
aprox23 2 weeks ago in playlist Christian Nation?
Ron Paul 2012.
student507 2 months ago 4
@bartguys If God does exist then he/it has no need for a nation but every nation needs God. So it is imperative that a nations policy be driven by the faith of its citizens not the other way around.
This pastor portends that conservatives derive faith from nationalism. Yet, I find it is liberals, not conservatives, who derive their faith from their political views.
btw, that whole semite thing really seems to bug you.
dpinkentucky 2 months ago
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1) America did not get rich off of slavery, America was nearly destroyed over the issue of slavery.
2) America has turned the other cheek again and again. For example, Germany and Japan post WWII, efforts to bring freedom to the middle east in response to 9/11 each at great cost to us.
3) If anything, churches are overly involved in leftist politics by calling upon Caesar to use taxes to force people into philanthropy instead of allowing them to make a freewill sacrifice of their own.
dpinkentucky 3 months ago
1) America did not get rich off of slavery, America was nearly destroyed over the issue of slavery.
2) America has turned the other cheek again and again. For example, Germany and Japan post WWII, efforts to bring freedom to the middle east in response to 9/11 each at great cost to us.
3) If anything, churches are overly involved in leftist politics by calling upon Caesar to use taxes to force people into philanthropy instead of allowing them to make a freewill sacrifice of their own.
dpinkentucky 3 months ago
@dpinkentucky 2) quit trying to equivocate Jesus to American foreign policy.... ur an idiot. FREEDOM?? TO THE MIDDLE EAST??by trying to have Israels's back cuz some fetish with "David, Abraham" and all them dudes come on get over yourself dude. WE'VE BEEN DROPPING BOMBS!! IS THAT WHAT JESUS WOULD DO?? 9/11 we've had a presence over there for oil since Eisenhower. (smh)
3) Everyone deserves to have food, shelter, etc. without philanthropy and is right in of itself.socialism/Jesus
bartguys 2 months ago
@dpinkentucky america makes nazi germany look like the red cross.america has more blood on its hands than any nation in history.Your right wing churches are full of blasphemy.Vicious idol worshippers.Peace
razmoe2000 1 month ago
One of the best and rarest books available.
God bless you!!
veritas77axiom 3 months ago
Wow, I can support political power now that it is destroying the myth of christianity. Whatever it takes to get religion to go the way of the dodo
MrKGatl 4 months ago
The Neo-Cons have always used the Christian movement as their puppets. They don't care at all about the faith or the people who subscribe to it. They just use fear to advance their political philosophies and they find that's easiest to do through the Christian community. As a result, people are becoming fed up with Christians not because of their faith but because of their politics.
lcowles 5 months ago
Good video.
theNCGstudios 5 months ago
You mean that Jesus Christ didn't write the Constitution? The Republicans are wrong?
friedie1jeff 6 months ago 4
I just finished reading this book. Thank you for such a powerful eye opening message!
And if this isnt telling. compare the views received for these videos:
Do a YouTube search typing "Obama Mocks & Attacks Jesus Christ and the Bible" to see that there are over 2 million views. Then do a Youtube search typing "combating domestic violence" or "how to end poverty" and see that most of these videos have gotten far far fewer views.
Just proves where our Christian priorities are...
Naturebound 7 months ago
An important video!! Thanks for posting!!
MidnightWriter8210 7 months ago
Thank you for posting this, mayartay.
writersblock26 9 months ago
christians will seek political power today as they think that the law of GOd makes men holy and so must be enforced on unbelievers.
But such a view is in total violation of the scriptures (read Romans and Galatians).
therefore, seekingpolitical power to enforce Law on men is not only in error, it is evil and these churches are apostate, these individuals backslidden
Strefanasha 10 months ago
there is no such thing as a christian nation. Why? All the nations are arranged against God (Psalm 2). and Jesus said strait (ie small) is the gate and narrow the way that FEW there are who find it"
that being so one would never get the numbers to start a christian nation . so they dont exist.
moreover nations are ruled by Law, christians are supposed to live by GRACE.
this pastor is correct, they seek politics as they have compromised with the world
Strefanasha 10 months ago
His kingdom is not of this world. that says it all
and how did modern christians get involved in this nonsense? Francis Schaeffer IV, the "christian" "philosopher" was a major factor in this.
as for me i regard politicians using religious rhetoric as taking the name of God in vain.
they seek power in the world. therefore they are ALWAYS lying when they say they are doing what Jesus said
Strefanasha 11 months ago
I wholly agree with Dr. Boyd. It's so easy to get caught up in the Conservative/ Liberal political debate and lose sight of the Lord. That's why I don't vote.(I'll probably get some flack for saying that) :P
ChristianPainter 1 year ago
@ChristianPainter
Nope, you're fine---I don't vote either, haven't ever... I didn't put my hope in people even when I was an atheist.
Our battles aren't with the flesh and the fight for nations, our battle is spiritual... anything else is only to take you from the focus of the true war.
God is the true giver of freedom--not men, and if He takes it away--Praise Him still..
droptozro 10 months ago
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798
BriarsandBrambles 1 year ago
@BriarsandBrambles
What is the point here? The the Constitution was created to rule people who have morals? What morality? Christian morality or the humanist morality that was embraced by the Enlightment. W/e moralist is fine for your quote but it does not mean that this is a Christian Nation. I do not see the point of this quote.
TomorrowBeginsToday 1 year ago
The most refreshingly reasonable fundy I've yet seen. I hope his take catches on.
dymchurch1 1 year ago
Right on, Greg. I agree with you 150%.
greatgulffixed 1 year ago 2
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I understand YouTube is not letting you post comments on your own videos, but are you allowed to us why?
TheBrendabob 1 year ago
I understand YouTube is not letting you post comments on your own videos, but are you alowed to us why?
TheBrendabob 1 year ago
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US liberty is granted first by a creator at birth and only recognized and upheld by the US constitution as a birth-right as such. Why, because if mere men or documents alone granted you liberty only a mere man or document can take it away! This is the distinction from American Liberty & why all men are created equal, evolution surly does not teach this but Christianity does. The basic notion of American liberty & freedom for all is by a God-given birth-right & a non-secular view historically.
WILLTHEWGMAN 1 year ago
Thank you for your comments, and not blocking me:o)
Let's be good, for goodness sake.
Peace
4me2cclearly 1 year ago
Christanity in politics furthers the Kingdom by paving the way in our society.
THOMASWML3 1 year ago
@THOMASWML3 What furthers the Kingdom is the enlargement of it. To enlarge the Kingdom people need to get saved. Politics will not save, but the blood of the lamb.
tertiuscarstens 1 year ago
Generally right, but a caveat: He just needs to acknowledge defense as a natural reaction to danger. At times I believe Christians should be involved in acts of defense. Prayer and Ecclesiastes 4 should help the decision.
musicappreciate 1 year ago
Christians like Muslims promote lies and confusion about Jews and the Rabbi on the Roman Cross, that Christians in over 200 years can notbe original stealing from the Rabbi. Its easy to use a dead Rabbi, He can not defend himself. Americans founding fathers were ALL MASONS!
Lightia 1 year ago
@Lightia Jesus died because He opposed Pharisaic Judaism. We have four contemporary authors who wrote the gospels based on firsthand accounts. We know what kind of Person Jesus was, and what He believed. He was not a Talmudic Jew as you suppose.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay He did uphold some of the Talmudic laws though.
tertiuscarstens 1 year ago
@tertiuscarstens The Talmud contains midrash and commentary on the Old Testament. The written Talmud did not exist in Christ's time, but only existed in the form of oral law, which is referred to in the New Testament as the "traditions of men." Jesus did not respect the Pharisees' traditions. He did obey the Old Testament law though because He had to fulfill the law on our behalf. It is a different matter to say Christians need to keep the law.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay I know what the Talmud is. I know that it was codified after His life on earth. And I know about the Isaiah 29:13 that Messiah quotes in Matthew 15:9.
He did uphold quite a few Talmudic statutes. If you want me to make you a list, I will do so. I'm not saying we should, I'm just saying, don't state that He didn't, because that is just not true.
Saying that fulfillment means that He had to obey them shows lack of understanding. He had to obey to be viewed and be without sin.
tertiuscarstens 1 year ago
@tertiuscarstens I would be interested in knowing any Pharisaic traditions that Jesus "obeyed" that cannot be found in the Old Testament. I had no idea the Church is so Judaized that Christians are now wanting to respect the Talmud! Do you want to obey that POS as well?
mayartay 1 year ago
@tertiuscarstens Do you have any idea of the kind of filth that's contained in the Talmud??
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay Yes I do.
tertiuscarstens 1 year ago
@tertiuscarstens Great way to defend yourself.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay POS? I think you need to calm down and reassess your relationship with your saviour given your behaviour.
And just because "Lightia" called Him a Rabbi doesn't mean anything else than that He was a Rabbi. He was a Rabbi.
Here are some examples: Priest are innocent even though they work on Shabbat - Matt 12:5; Restricting travel on Shabbat appropriate - Matt 24:20; Reclining at the Passover seder was appropriate - Matt 26:20.
There are more, they are all codified in Talmud.
tertiuscarstens 1 year ago
@tertiuscarstens "POS? I think you need to calm down and reassess your relationship with your saviour given your behaviour."
The Talmud endorses hatred, murder, and pedophilia. I have nothing to apologize for, and you're the one who needs salvation.
mayartay 1 year ago
Jesus said in Mt. 12:5 "Have you not read in the law". Do you think He might have been referring to the OT instead of the Talmud?? See Num. 28:9, 10 and 1 Chr. 9:32.
Travel on the Sabbath was prohibited in Exodus 16:29. Perhaps you should learn the Bible before adopting another religion supposedly on the basis of Scripture.
By your absurd reasoning, anyone who reclines at a table on the Passover recognizes the Talmud as authoritative!
1. Read the Bible. 2. Learn how to think.
mayartay 1 year ago
'Jesus never once allowed the politics of his day to se his agenda."
So true. I'm a Christian, and I agree with Dr. Boyd here.
There are beliefs that I firmly hold, and they're not popular, yet even still I don't align myself with any particular political party.
Christianity and Nationalism are not one and the same, and I'm sick and tired of people who think that only conservative Christians are "good Americans".
Stop infusing the two.
Cyyael 1 year ago
This guy is definitely speaking truth to power. I wonder what S.E. Cupp thinks about this?
apollomiami83 1 year ago
I wonder what he would think of what's going on now in 2010.
Commonsensitivity 1 year ago
simply put...religions & politics don't mix nor ever will.
davemelnick 1 year ago
Gregory Boyd is as much a Christian as is Barry Lynn, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson & George Bush. He asks; "Is it really good to fuse our faith to a political cause"? Lets look to some real Christians for the answer. The Continental Congress during the Revolutionary War was nicknamed the "Bible Congress". The battle cry was; "rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God". After the war, the founders credited the Providence of God for the victory. With an entire society knowing that their new nation
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
was made possible by the Providence of God, Benjamin Franklin warned Thomas Paine that the worst thing he could do is publish "Age Of Reason". Paine didn't deny the existence of God, only his Providence. The other founders expressed their disdain for him in writing & society disowned him. He lived the remainder of his years in obscurity in New York & no American cemetery accepted his body. He was buried in a field. That grave were the consequences of his book & he wasn't an Atheist. What does
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
that say about early American society? "The Myth Of A Christian Nation"? Gregory Boyd is lucky he didn't publish his book at the time of "Age Of Reason". 1st President Washington said; "religion is necessary for good government & the happiness of the people". 2nd Pres. John Adams said; "our Constitution was created for a religious & moral people, it is wholly inadequate to the government of any other". 3rd Pres. Thomas Jefferson called for 8 straight years of weekly, Sunday, Christian church
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
@Chuichupachichi America was also founded as a pluralistic nation since non-Christians had the right to vote, etc.
mayartay 1 year ago
service held within the House Of Representatives, or the Treasury building or the Supreme Court chambers. 4th Pres. James Madison followed Jefferson's lead with 8 more years of the same. America's "Ivy League" Universities were theological institutions. A theological education was primary & a secular education was secondary. Their graduates became the prominent, influential men of the country. If Christians had never fused Christianity with politics, there would have never been a USA. Now, Jesus
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
Boyd says that Jesus never touched politics. Isn't it interesting that even before he was born, he was already influencing politics... King Herod wanted him dead. His years of ministry climaxed with both local Roman & Hebrew government enthralled in a judicial/political, major event. It was Jesus only being who he was & saying what he said that had such an impact upon politics. Jesus & God the Father are the same. God established ancient Israel in which religion & politics were
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
indistinguishable one from the other. Kings were not God's plan. Israel was ruled by judges according to God's Law. Interestingly, in America, the Supreme Court was for many years (the good years), a Christian stronghold. A Republic, governed by the rule of righteous law. Today, the Supreme Court has been largely disgraced by criminals who intentionally & deceptively make law to get around "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor prohibit the practice thereof".
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
The framers of the Constitution mentioned only Congress because only Congress is authorized to make law... but not in regards to religion. Thus, the evil ones have been outlawing Christianity from the Supreme Court bench. The "Father of the Constitution" called for church service within the House of Representatives & today's so called, justices decree it unconstitutional to make any mention of God within schools or any public place.
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
You'd think persons in that position would know early American history. I'm a high school dropout and can much more competently interpret the US Constitution than can those cretinous ignoramuses
Chuichupachichi 1 year ago
@Chuichupachichi Boyd believes Christians should be involved in politics. Do you want to require nonbelievers to become Christians and pray to Jesus in public schools or what?
mayartay 1 year ago
Pastor Boyd is correct. Christianity has become politicized by the politicians, and Christians should be very angry about that. Jesus never allowed the politics of his day to set his agenda. It's all about what we want to look like: Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, or the Empire. They are diametrically opposed. Think about it folks.
sterlingrose33 1 year ago
RE: "My kingdom is not of this world" That's quite true. The Kingdom of God is supposed to transcend race and nationalism and all that, and welcome all the children of God. "There is not Jew or Greek, no male or female, no slave or free, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." That was used as a baptismal formula centuries ago, and it contrasted the pagan ancestor and nation worship. This is why Christianity is (and is meant to be) UNIVERSAL or, to use a Anglicized Greek word: Catholic
sterlingrose33 1 year ago
Also, let me say this: I was born in and grew up near Washington DC. When you go to the National Mall and you see what we build monuments to, you can clearly see that we're not building monuments to Jesus or God. Look at the cover of his book: the Statue of LIberty is on it. Not Jesus. And that's fine, perfectly ok. This nation is for all kinds of citizens, not just Christians. I can afford to share my freedom with any person here, Christian or not. I don't see a problem.
sterlingrose33 1 year ago
I think part of the problem I'm seeing in the comments here is that people are defining "believe" as "give intellectual assent to." The deepest meaning of "believe" is "to belove." It speaks of what you hold close to your heart, what you value. Not an intellectual proposition, provable or not by empirical means. And when you are dealign with matters of the heart, that has nothing to do with intellect and "proof." Besides, if you have proof, you don't have faith. They're mutually exclusive.
sterlingrose33 1 year ago
Interesting. He makes a lot of the same points anti-theists make about the history & rise to power of Christianity. Most Christians seem to get extremely angry when atheists say these things.
queenastilon 1 year ago
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God is a joke told by the oppressors, to the simpletons, to keep them ignorant sheep.
Why else do you thank they are called flocks?
It is a old joke that is not, nor has it ever been funny.
The odd thing is that, when confronted with the logic of their belief, so many prefer to stop thinking rather than stop believing.
Just because something makes you feel good doesn't mean that it is true.
I don't pray to drugs.
4me2cclearly 1 year ago
@4me2cclearly Jesus compared believers to sheep, but that being the case, where does that leave unbelievers? At least Christians have some idea of Who the Chief Shepherd is.
mayartay 1 year ago
"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" - President John Adams
rockfordguy24 1 year ago
"It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible."
George Washington
danmol78 2 years ago
The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion.
-George Washington
XJaggedgeX 2 years ago
I wouldn't say that a Christian Nation isn't possible, but when you have leaders who openly deny Christ with their mouth, and in their actions, all you have is caricature of Christianity, and it's just not right.
blessingsindisguise 2 years ago
The video description says that "Boyd is no liberal," yet Boyd admits in the interview that he's a pacifist. Case closed. He needs to try reading the Bible more.
burningsodium 2 years ago
Yup. Now, if only we could find some Amalekites so we could slaughter all men, women, and children...
mayartay 2 years ago
@burningsodium since when has "liberal" become synonomys with "Pacifist"? and who cares in the long run?
AmandaChoin217 1 year ago
@burningsodium Well, most liberals are not pacifists; their belief in gun control is focused on regulating the obtaining of firearms, not getting rid of them. Most liberals think pacifists are dumb, which is unfortunate. The Amish, Hutterites, and Mennonites are not liberals.
goyim32 1 year ago
"It looks like Jesus, not like Caesar"
Yes, and the verse this reminds me of is Galatians 3:28: There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female, for you are one in Christ Jesus.
What a wonderful thing! Tribalism out the window. Gender issues out the window. Economic class out the window. Yah!! All coming to one table. How brilliant (and subversive) that is!
It's all about the love. Love, love, love. "Love one another"
sterlingrose33 2 years ago
"My kingdom is not of this world."
DING DING DING we have a winner
sterlingrose33 2 years ago 7
"Jesus said" - to be able to use this as a basis for your argument, you must first provide the proof the bible and jesus are real or exist. Please submit these so-called "studies". To believe all Atheists are incapable of morality only proves your ignorance.
mad4mtl 2 years ago
@mad4mtl There is a ton of evidence. Read his book "The Jesus Legend" where he discusses the historical reliability of Jesus. It's the most comprehensive book on the subject.
stallyan 1 year ago
after starting looking at some issues in religion, and debating my belief in Christianity I would say I am atheist and while communism and atheism do have some historical connections, culture can be far more restricting than a government policy in many cases. I've decided no matter what your beliefs there are problems with your logic and you will find some way to justify evil acts if you want to commit them. No matter who you are I think you can agree power does corrupt a person.
MajorCroom 2 years ago
I think you have to admit atheism is pretty convenient if you seek to be free from a sense of moral obligation. There are certainly wolves among true Christians though.
Christians are subject to the same temptations (i.e., pride, deception/faulty reasoning, presumption, etc) as everyone else, but we have a God who is the Source of all truth and righteousness, and who is able to instruct those who depend on him. Absolute truth exists independently of human failure.
mayartay 2 years ago
Atheism doesn't free you from moral obligation. It emphasizes the fact that we have moral obligations that are higher than what bronze-age folk tales or cultist priests dictate to us. Atheists identify absolute truth and morality's independence from god and the importance of adhering to virtue for its own value, not under threat of divine retribution
Religion is a convenient source of morality for those who cannot and will not see or do what is right without the penalty of eternal damnation
manonthemount 2 years ago 3
Isn't it strange that the average "man on the street" tends to adopt a "do what thou wilt" attitude when assured there is no god and no absolute moral standards? Your "sermon" is virtually ineffective in the real world. Ultimately, all that moral atheists can do is rely on police power. Might makes right. Survival of the fittest. Hmm, where have I heard that before?
mayartay 2 years ago
manonmount, your rhetoric, like everything else I see from atheists, is filled with accusations against Christians. For one thing, most Christians do not follow Christ merely to avoid eternal damnation. Sure, that works from maybe age 7 to age 18 at the latest, but then a decision must be made as to whether it really makes sense and whether God is real. Atheists, unable to comprehend the decision to follow Christ, just say we are scared of Hell.
mayartay 2 years ago
Also, "bronze age cultists"?? And "atheists... adhere to virtue for its own value"?? Haha!
Get real, dude!! Atheists are no more moral than anyone else, and I've heard of some studies which show they tend to be less moral. A large number of them have psychological issues related to their fathers, if they even had one.
mayartay 2 years ago 2
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Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Imaginefree69 Other than the first sentence, I think you're responding to a different video.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay
Not so much responding to a different video as speaking to those readers who think the Bible is a legitimate basis for government.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
The Christian nation is not a myth check out my video
MrGodTube 2 years ago
I'm atheist and my moral fibre comes from my brain. Honestly, if someone actually needs a rule book to tell them what's right and what's wrong, then honestly I wouldn't trust them any further than I could throw them.
And if the god character exists, then I can actually take positive pride in knowing that my moral standards are by far above god's moral standards.
berner 2 years ago
"Honestly, if someone actually needs a rule book to tell them what's right and what's wrong, then honestly I wouldn't trust them any further than I could throw them."
I see. In that case, let's not allow children to read books since they should be able to innately know right from wrong. Pure genius!
mayartay 2 years ago 5
@mayartay So basically what you're saying is that you're incapable of having any moral fibre what so ever without being _told_ what's right and what's wrong?
I'm sorry to hear that you need a crutch or an artificial substitute such as the world's most sadistic peice of literature, as the bible.
Like I said, I'm an atheist, and I turned out pretty good. I don't need religion or any finger waggling to tell me that killing is bad, and you don't see me out there killing people.
berner 2 years ago
@mayartay Hey and by the way, guess what a great tool to replace religion and the bible is:
Proper Parenting.
Oh my god! Could it be that proper parenting does more for a child's emotional well being and development than the bible, religion and the fear of god that ties them both together?
Yep.
But your implication is right, children should read books, but there's plenty of books out there that don't psychologically torture children through fear and terror.
berner 2 years ago
@berner If a father and mother have no fear of God, they can not be good parents. Even non-Christians have some knowledge of God and some fear of Him, whether they consciously realize it or not. I'm sorry you were terrorized by the Bible. What was the scariest one - the story of the flood? Yeah, kids have nightmares about it all the time. lol
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay And see that's where I keep religion far away from morality. Needing "fear" to ensure children develop into morally upstanding members of society. For me, telling a child that X is right and Y is wrong and giving them a reason for it far outweighs "If you do X, I swear to god I will punish you SO badly and if I can't do it, remember that an imaginary being is alwasy watching you!". I thought the stories of bears killing children, stoning chidren and smashing children on rocks was scary
berner 1 year ago
@mayartay Most children have a pretty good sense of right and wrong without any books at all. It's mostly about a sense of empathy and you don't get that from books, you get it from how you're treated. The fact is that our sense of "right and wrong" (which are of couse relative), come from our survival "instincts" and our character as social animals, period.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrMZaccone I agree that good parenting is also important. I think the Bible says something about that somewhere.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay Yeah, mostly it talks about beating or killing your kids.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@mayartay i thought thats what parents were for
espyd21c 1 year ago
@mayartay what I think he meant was, he got his morals from his parents. that is where I got mine from anyway.. and you don't need some 2000 year old fairytale to tell you what is right and wrong. That's just ridiculous.
cabiediger09 1 year ago
@mayartay Morality exists independent of religion.
allmanjoy 1 year ago
@allmanjoy Of course it does, because morality began at the creation when God endowed humans with His nature - man is made in God's image according to Genesis One. Religion, specifically the Christian religion, came much later. In the Garden of Eden, we see humans in RELATIONSHIP with God. True Christianity is still about having a relationship with God.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay According to my God given reason, I see no reason to accept a book as the word of God. That being said, references to the divinity of the Bible have no bearing with me.
allmanjoy 1 year ago
@berner Actually, the word of God says that God wrote his Law (moral fibre) on our hearts. Tests have shown that even nations where there s no written language and no contsct to the outside world, they had established laws in their communities that were consistent with the ten commandments. So, you cannot take credit for what someone wrote on your heart even before you were thought about.
silkaem 1 year ago
You have actually proven the existence of God by believing in morality. Morality requires a standard given by a perfect being, we know as God. I respect your viewpoints, but I would say that morality comes from Judeo-Christian ethics.
Have a great night.
BCPowerman 1 year ago
If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist.
Objective moral values and duties do exist.
Therefore, God exists.
BCPowerman 1 year ago
@BCPowerman That's called specious reasoning. You need to go take logic 101 again.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@berner Where does your brain come from? Where do you derive your morals? Did you not know that morals come only from God? This is something that I have come to learn and confirm each day: "I may deny God, you may deny God, the whole world may deny God, yet, He will always be real." You wrote, "And if the God character really exists"... which means you've thought it a possibility, I say explore that possibility and it's okay to question God's existence. I'm sure you are in for a surprise.
4336188 1 year ago
this guy makes no sense. He believes all the same nonsense the politicized christians believe, and is his arguments against being political are easily dismissed...by himself !! , during this discussion. I would love to see him debate Hitchens or Sam Harris and be brought to tears
PlanetoftheAtheists 2 years ago
Translation: I can't really explain why this guy makes no sense, but trust me, Hitchens or Harris could!!
mayartay 2 years ago
something like that yeah....sorta like; i dont know why that foul exhaust is spewing from the tailpipe of my car, but i know that a mechanic can.
PlanetoftheAtheists 2 years ago
@PlanetoftheAtheists Christian apologists have responded to every criticism of Christianity ever raised by both Hitchens and Harris.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay Yeah, mostly with nonsense.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
I am a Christian who is also a Democrat. I agree with so much of what Pastor Boyd says. I hear politics all week long and that is not what i want to hear in church. At a church I want to hear about God and want to do the work of Jesus such as helping the illiterate read, make sure that the sick and poor have food and heat, etc. Stop telling me how to vote !
luckyneko100 2 years ago
I agree! I once got an email from a well known pastor suggesting who I should vote for in a presidential election. I could almost have puked! I couldn't un-subscribe quickly enough!
The same pastor got into politics again by interviewing both presidential candidates. That interview was very biased since one candidate heard the questions in advance!
mayartay 2 years ago
Hitler was raised Catholic and killed MANY people but did NOT kill in the name of religion but atheists LOVE to pin this one on religion....While atheists may not have killed in the NAME of their religion, atheists have still killed more than theists throughout history...
LordWhorfinX 2 years ago
Another aspect to look at is the fact that even if Hitler was raised Catholic, he despised religion and wanted to create a new utopia and was looking where to hang his ideologies on. Furthermore, if atheists want to call him a Christian, which he plainly wasnt, they have to admit that he committed these crimes AGAINST Christian beliefs, but Atheists commit their crimes as a result of their beliefs, there is a very big difference between the two that are not acknowledged by atheists.
RoyalBaller9 2 years ago 2
what history are you refering to. do the crusades ring a bell/ maybe the spanish inquisition, how about the witch trials???
there is absolutely no truth in your statement... religion is and will always be the true culprit...
POLYMORPHLEGION 2 years ago
yeah, and those commies really believed in God too, didn't they? religion's ALWAYS the culprit! (joke)
mayartay 2 years ago
@LordWhorfinX That's nonsense.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
[CONITNUED] homosexuals & not cause them physical harm but will proactively vote to deny them federal marriage rights. 1 is bad, 1 is worse, neither are good.
Im not against God, Im against a herd of sheep
Key2daUnderground 2 years ago
Not all Christians are bad people, but believing in something with no evidence by an unquestionable authority can cause HUGE PROBLEMS because it robs you of free thought. As soon as the church/bible tells you what God wants then religious/cult-like people will follow without question. Xians believe "a man that lie with another man shall be put to death". A true literal devout Xian will either KILL a gay person or carry picket signs like "GOD HATES FAGS". A moderate Xian will love [2B continued]
Key2daUnderground 2 years ago
What makes you think Christians believe in the Law of Moses? I've never known one Christian who believes all those laws are good for today.
mayartay 2 years ago 3
@mayartay That "quote" is from the new testament.
AmandaChoin217 1 year ago
@mayartay I'm one who does! You should read what the New Testament says about those laws. They will NEVER pass away.
tertiuscarstens 1 year ago
@tertiuscarstens I said I've never known one Christian who believes "ALL those laws" are good for today. Do you obey Deuteronomy 13:12-18 by killing people who try to lead Christians astray from the Christian faith?
That's really cute (gag, vomit) that you think all of Moses' laws are good for today.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay I'm more than open to discuss this since you seem to disagree that "those laws" are of any importance. There is no need for the atonement of sin by sacrifices, because our Messiah died on the cross and His blood atoned for our sins. That doesn't mean that those laws that are not to do with the blood sacrifices need to be ignored. Instead they should be obeyed.
You *gag/vomit* comments doesn't belong in argument. I can say the same back to you. Why do you think they have ceased?
tertiuscarstens 1 year ago
@tertiuscarstens The Old Testament laws are only important in the sense that they can teach us spiritual truths, but the New Testament makes it clear that Christians are not under the Law. Have you ever read the book of Galatians?
The sentence with "gag/vomit" immediately follows the sentence in which I asked if you obey the law that says to kill those who would lead you astray from the faith. That law, frankly, makes me want to vomit. Obviously, you feel differently about it.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay I have read the book of Galations, we are no longer under the curse of Torah. I agree whole heartedly. Should we now disobey YHWH's teaching? Hardly.
Look, we need to be prayerful about what offends us. He will come back and kill those who fall short. You may be sad, but please don't be offended.
Messiah interprets Torah for us when it comes to stoning and some other things. If you'd like to discuss this further, lets chat somewhere where we can debate scripture as commanded. :)
tertiuscarstens 1 year ago
@tertiuscarstens Nobody disputes that Jesus will judge those who do evil, but as I pointed out, the Old Testament commands believers to kill unbelievers. Are you implying that Jesus said we are not to obey the law which says to kill unbelievers who seek to lead God's people astray? Where is that written?
mayartay 1 year ago
You can say that I or my beliefs make you gag or vomit, but what compares with the brutal murder of nonbelievers? Christ came and abolished the "law of commandments expressed in ordinances" (Eph. 2:15). If the law is good for today, we are all dead. The Old Covenant "heavens and earth" have passed away, and now we are under the New Covenant.
mayartay 1 year ago
"Why do you think they have ceased?"
Don't just read Galatians. Read the entire New Testament.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay I have, quite a few times. I am still convinced that we need to obey Him. And that's not an answer to my question.
Again, if you'd like to discuss this we can by email. If you're not interested then I'm wasting my time.
Know this, I am patient and debate well, not with ad hominem attacks and I will consider your points. As long as you give me the same courtesy. :)
tertiuscarstens 1 year ago
@mayartay
Jesus did say that the world would pass away before the lest letter of gods law be invalid.
Not just the ones you chery pick.
4me2cclearly 1 year ago
@4me2cclearly That's interesting. If you have a son and he disobeys his father and mother, do you kill him as Deuteronomy 21:18-21 commands?
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay
As an atheist, I do not follow the ignorant, and hateful teachings of the old testament. I treat others the way I would like to be treated because I would like the same respect. It is common since.
And I did not say it. Jesus did. The Old Testament is no longer in effect some might say. Perhaps they should read where Jesus makes it clear: "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
4me2cclearly 1 year ago
@4me2cclearly The old heavens and earth did pass away with the passing of the Old Covenant. That ended with the Roman conquest of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the complete destruction of the temple. The Bible routinely uses metaphoric language, which often appears in the writings of the prophets. The Book of Revelation records that the heavens and earth passed away. Throughout Revelation, Jesus or the angel speaking said these things would come to pass soon, not after 21 centuries.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay The same was said about Adam dying after eating the fruit.
If you claim that "heavens and earth passing away" when Messiah spoke it was in fact speaking about the detruction of the Temple, you need to add some proof to this. Saying that there is often metaphoric language used doesn't prove your point.
I could say the same thing about various sins and sin all I want, it was metaphoric after all! As an example of that rule just not working.
tertiuscarstens 1 year ago
@tertiuscarstens Do you like to pretend I didn't explain my reasons for making that assertion???
I supported my statement by saying that Revelation (chapter 21) says there is a new heaven and earth, and Revelation was to have been fulfilled very soon after the words were penned. Jesus returned spiritually in 70 AD.
Read the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24. Jesus was speaking about events leading to the destruction of the temple, and He said it would happen in "this generation".
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay No I just don't agree with your explanation. It is based on very loose interpretation.
I'm not a Preterist and our Messiah did not return 70AD. The millennial Kingdom has not been established.
If that is your stance, then I can easily refute it.
To which sect of Christianity to you connect yourself so that I can understand your reasoning more clearly.
And yes, I have read Matthew 24.
tertiuscarstens 1 year ago
@4me2cclearly When anyone calls God a vulgar name, I delete the comment. It shows where your heart is.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay
I can respect that.
Agree to disagree.
Best of wishes to you.
Peace
Ray
4me2cclearly 1 year ago
@mayartay I have; tons, actually. They're mostly in the Reformed camp.
goyim32 1 year ago
@goyim32 Those Christians had better start offering lambs on an altar so that God can forgive their sins. After all, that's what the law commanded.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay This means the Biblegod changed his mind.
allmanjoy 1 year ago
@allmanjoy The Old Testament contained types, symbols, and prophecies that were fulfilled in the New Testament. I have studied the Bible and am satisfied that God worked in history to bring about the appearance of the Messiah at the right time. It is the fault of humans that God could not have taught us the whole truth long ago.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay The OT was written first. How convenient! Whatever is responsible for our being also gave us the ability to sniff out frauds like the Bible and other "divine" revelations.
You say you've studied the Bible? How so? If you've really studied it, you'd see the scam, the blatant blasphemy, and the untruth. You'd also see the evil human invention of religion.
allmanjoy 1 year ago
@allmanjoy Don't you see how absurd it is to say that anyone who believes in the Bible could not have studied it? The assertion is easily disproven since millions of people have studied the Bible, and still believe. I could just as easily say that anyone who has seriously studied the idea that God does not exist cannot be an atheist!
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay What's most absurd is thinking that the Creator left its essence within a human invention. The Intelligence that put together all the elements necessary for our universe needed men to give us "His Word," ridiculous! And yes, millions, even billions can be wrong.
allmanjoy 1 year ago
@allmanjoy The world has undeniable absurdities anyway. In the context of this world instead of whatever world you might imagine, Christianity makes more sense than any other religion or philosophy.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay I'd love to hear your explanation as to why Christianity is the correct religion.
allmanjoy 1 year ago
@allmanjoy I'm sorry, but that question is way too broad for me to answer here. The cornerstone of the Christian faith is Christ and the resurrection. If I had time, I would argue that Jesus' words reveal Him to be the Son of God, and that there is historical evidence that Christ rose from the dead. His disciples certainly believed it, and were willing to die for their beliefs. Again, however, I cannot go into such detail. BOOKS have been written on these topics, you know.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay "The cornerstone of the Christian faith is Christ and the resurrection."
Yet the Gospels don't agree with each other. This is the Son of God we're talking about but the writers just didn't deliver. You see, we have undeniable truth in the Creation itself which speaks a universal language. What we find in the Bible is one contradiction after another. Where are the contradictions in Nature?
I can't base my life on the pages of a book. I'm not sorry about it. I've been there.
allmanjoy 1 year ago
@allmanjoy I am working on a book that might interest you, which I will post a video about before the end of the year.
The crazy thing about the minor contradictions in the gospels is that three of the gospel writers knew what was written before them and they didn't care. They weren't trying to put things in exact chronological order (except Luke I think). Each put a different "spin" on Jesus' life for the audience to whom they wrote. If that makes you dismiss it all as fiction, so be it.
mayartay 1 year ago
@mayartay Thomas Paine did an excellent job of disproving the Bible with the Bible over two hundred years ago. So those "minor contradictions" aren't really minor and they are only a fraction of why I dismiss the entire collection of fables.
Of course the Gospels do not agree with each other because they were written decades after the supposed Jesus' death. Also, if this man was the greatest to have ever walked the earth, why didn't he put pen to paper?
allmanjoy 1 year ago
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Imaginefree69 It's clear that whoever wrote the gospels had a copy of the Greek Septuagint (sp?) version of the old testament in front of them, because it includes the errors made in that Greek text. In fact, there are no ancient copies of the gospels in Hebrew--strange, since the disciples were supposedly Jewish. But not at all strange if the gospels were written by Greek-speaking gentiles.
BiffWhitebread13 1 year ago
@BiffWhitebread13
"strange, since the disciples were supposedly Jewish"
Yes, very strange indeed. Especially considering the emphasis placed on the claim that the disciples were "uneducated fishermen" and so forth. Being Jewish, there is a good chance they might have learned to read and write Hebrew, but it's hard to justify calling those fluent in two widely divergent languages "uneducated."
(Of course, the connection between ignorance and embracing irrational religion is never examined...)
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Imaginefree69 Here is some good not great information from a non Christian source. And one from the person who is in the video.
You will have to look up the paper below for the information as I can not fit it in this small window.
Parker, S. (2001). Seeing is believing. (cover story). Report / Newsmagazine (National Edition), 28(1), 42. Retrieved from EBSCOhost.
Boyd (2007), The Jesus Legend: a Case for the Historical Reliability of the Synoptic Jesus Tradition,
TheNightwing01 1 year ago
@mayartay
Why do you call these contradictions "minor"?
Even ONE contradiction refutes the doctrine of the Bible as the "perfect, complete, authoritative, infallible, inerrant Word of God."
Did Judas or did priests purchase Potter's field?
How did Judas die?
Did Jesus suck on a sponge while being crucified?
Which of several choices were Jesus' last words?
Who was Jesus' putative paternal grandpa? Heli or Jacob?
How does one day and two nights become "three days and three nights"?
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mayartay
""there is historical evidence that Christ rose from the dead""
I'm STILL waiting fir your evidence.
Persistent evasion is evidence of a lack of evidence.
We all know you would post it if you had it.
"They weren't trying to put things in exact chronological order "
Says you.
Evidently they were not trying to write the same reality, either.
There's a lot more contradiction than mere chronology, as you know if you have read these books.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@mayartay
"there is historical evidence that Christ rose from the dead"
I don't believe this is correct,
but I'd be delighted to see any of this evidence.
Many, many christians make this claim,
but they never actually produce the evidence.
Will you be the exception?
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Imaginefree69
No historical evidence? Just what would you define as "historical evidence"?.........How about manuscripts written by eyewitnesses before other eyewitnesses? How about manuscripts written by others such as Josephus? Not good enough. Did Julius Caesar really exist? Any historical evidence for that?
Skinski7 1 year ago