Matt Slick - Were Adam & Eve real people? - Part 1 - CARM Radio

[AnthonyofPadua16]

Haha n/a

[gazthefunky39]

I think he likes the word "Significant", and well I think that's significant.

[morrisondan]

Matt Slick is humiliating to the body of Jesus Christ!. He is obnoxious, sends everyone who doesn't agree w/ him to hell, won't admit his mistakes, etc, etc.

I have never in my life listened to a more absurd, ignorant jackass!. This "apologist", & "pastor", has no respect for anyone who doesn't agree with his own "reformed theology!".

[zytigon]

I'm impressed that Matt is open minded enough to discuss the issue and not just sweep it under the carpet. The Bible genealogies of Luke & Matthew point to an Adam at 4000 BCE. Evolution put speciation of homo sapien at 200,000 years ago. Also evolution says first humans originated from a troupe of proto Great Apes not a single pair.

[jamaicanification]

@13Xanadu First of, if you look at the original hebrew of that text, its not speaking of rape as you would imagine it in the modern context. The hebrew words used are 'chazaq' and 'shakab' which means lie down, or seize. The context that verse is speaking of is a man who is romatically involved with a woman(who was not ready for intercourse) but still had intercourse anyways. And im sorry i so offend you. Though i doubt you really were that offended

[Gnomefro]

@jamaicanification "First of, if you look at the original hebrew of that text, its not speaking of rape as you would imagine it in the modern context."

Actually it is. The context of Deuteronomy 22:28 is death penalties for a wide range of rape situations. The one in verse 28 is simply less serious because the girl has not been sold to a future husband yet, so the crime of the rape is against the property of her father and not her husband.

[Gnomefro]

@jamaicanification Because women's rights are entirely disregarded in OT, the only effect of the crime is that her virginity was lost, and she would then be impossible to marry away. This entails some economic loss to the father, which is why he is compensated 50 shekels, and the offender has to take the useless girl off his fathers hands and support her for the rest of her life.

[Gnomefro]

@jamaicanification You can see this mentality clearly in Deut 22:23-27 which dictate punishments for the rape of betrothed virgins in two different cases. If the rape happened in a town or out in the country. The difference determines whether the women should be murdered along with the rapist and that happens if she did not scream for help when in town. Rape was a property crime to those people and the feelings, or even lives, of the women involved was a non-issue.

[jamaicanification]

@Gnomefro thank you for clearing that up :)

[jamaicanification]

@13Xanadu It is hyperbole thats being used, and it was common in those cultures when describing battle. So all this bullshit about the old testament having baby bashing and rape and that non-sense is crap. i think your the one tripping out on some cocaine or something. probably got it pre-packaged and shipped to ya via the flying unicorn or anyone of your imaginary pets

[jamaicanification]

@13Xanadu It says that Joshua faced an army so large that it was as large as the grains of sand on the seashore. Clear hyperbole. I can give examples outside the bible. Read the Mesha Stele that shows how the king of Moab rebelled against the Israelites and in the descriptions he states that Israel suffered 'eternal destruction'. now obviously we know israel didn't suffer eternal destruction because if they did then they would have been exterminated(continued)

[jamaicanification]

@13Xanadu yes ive read the bible retard. I you knew anything about the bible, you'd know that why it records history, it does so in a literary fashion that uses exaggerated language. The reason it does this is because it comes out of a culture were oral tradition was very important. I'll give you an example. Joshua chp 11 vs 4(Ironically one of the so called books atheists say has stuff like baby killing and massacres and all that stuff)(continued)

[michaelcschmitt]

I have never even entertained if Adam and Eve were figurative or real. They are real and we take this by faith because the Bible tells us so. Just as I have never entertained if Eve had sex with satan. The Bible doesn't tell us she did and doesn't even hint at it. We know that Eve had no sex with the devil because the Bible doesn't say so. We know this also by faith also.

[jamaicanification]

@13Xanadu well if you read St Augustine's City of God, this is explained to mean that we were given reason and intellect. Our cognitive capacity to distinguish right from wrong is what separates us from all other creation. Thats what being made in god's image means

[jamaicanification]

@13Xanadu by 6 days, genesis was not giving a scientific but literary explanation of creation. Read Origen of st augustine. It was using the 6 day literary framework that jews were familiar with in order to explain that god created the universe in an ordered and structure fashion

[tiny515515]

anyone notice that evolution matches closey to creationism so maybe adam and eve were the first homo sapiens

[jamaicanification]

look im gonna put this out there. Accepting evolution as a scientific fact does not mean that you're not a christian. Nor does it mean that you have to deny the existence of adam and eve. The fact of the matter is that the 6 days in genesis were not always interpreted as 6 literal days. If anyone is interested read the works of augustine such as the last part of his confessions, city of god, and the literal meaning of genesis....

[zball333]

As for one animal changing classes of corse we haven't seen that it would take millions of years and is irrelevant. That's like saying just because we haven't seen a star for from gasses that it hasn't happened before. That's a major fallacy.

[zball333]

And if u r looking for a large animal example you can take any animal breed it in seclusion from the rest of the group and after sufficient generations have their offspring unable to breed with the originals. So by definition they are a new species. And they evolved!!!!!!

[zball333]

By the way nice f-ing strawman of evolution. U don't even know the basics of what u claim is wrong.

[zball333]

@sylentintensity1122

WTF!!! Yes we have. We have seen ecoli in a lab evolve over 20,000 generations to survive in a citrate high environment. As well as observed many other bacteria evolve. Don't say shit u have no clue about.

[theoseans]

Why didn't god just create the clothes of skin? Why "add" that blood was shed? To make up the whole Jesus connection. God created "Adam and Eve" so I see it that we should suppose that he used evolution? What's that I read somewhere about "add to or take away"? Oh yeah, you’re in trouble. Same with the numbers game as if god would be so clever to do complicated math tricks but so silly with the actual written words. God is Beer - Makes you ten feet tall and bullet proof in the only world.

[SylentIntensity1122]

Evolution says: "Death brought man into the world..."

the Bible says: "Man brought death into the world..."

Whether I look out or whether I look inwardly, I always arrive back at square one:

God is real. The two religions (yes evolution is a religion, requiring faith to believe in) cannot be reconciled. I'm sorry to say it, but yes Adam and Eve were real people and yes they blew it. But, thankfully, God saves us forever through the single act of accepting His grace...

[FabisDB]

@SylentIntensity1122  LOL! "Evolution is a religion" is probably the dumbest sentence ever. You don't need faith when you have tons of evidence. Look the meaning of faith in wikipedia at least....

[SylentIntensity1122]

@FabisDB

Definition of faith, as defined by Wikipedia- "Faith is trust, hope and belief in the goodness, trustworthiness or reliability of a person, concept or entity."

No one has ever observed an animal of a particular kind evolving into another kind of animal. An example would be a fish evolving into an amphibian, or a reptile evolving into a mammal, or an ape evolving into a human being. If no observation has been noted, then why believe that it has taken place before? Answer- FAITH

[FabisDB]

@SylentIntensity1122 I'm sorry to tell you sir, but you are simply wrong. First of all, "kind" has not scientific definition. I think you want to say speciation and there are studies (do some research) that shows that specific populations were isolated (allopatric speciation) and produces organisms that cannot interbreed.

Before you make a huge claim like that, please study some more.

Finally, it doesn't matter, even if evolution wasn't true, that doesn't prove Adam and Eve.

[FabisDB]

This will be always funny to me. All in the Bible is a metaphor and literal at the same time? Stop switching that when you need it.

And to the guy that said "Jesus spoke in parables, nothing wrong with it" Really? The objective of this prophet is to spread his word and the best way he found is through metaphors in a book? Brilliant.

[304MTodd63]

Matt, Thanks for addressing such an important subject. Perhaps some of those who have commented in a negative way should consider their (likely) materialistic presuppositions. Since in their worldview all existence is actually nothing more than a matter-energy cascade, there can be no human thought, memory, personality, or morals since all such things are the necessary outworking of atoms and energy particles. Let us all examine our presuppositions. Peace.

[kcdad2806]

The stories of Adam (mankind) and Eve (tent or village, i.e. dwelling place) are metaphors for civilization... PERIOD.

[MrSupernova890]

Matt Slick molested my dog. 

[LothairOfLorraine]

The Reformed Forum [Westminster Seminary] did a broadcast on the historical Adam that was interesting. Thelogically, an historical Adam is crucial but historically he is impossible to locate.

[panterguy]

"If the bible isn't true, them I'm going to have to go out and get a real job."

[CenkIsAdorable]

So the question is was all human life started by Adam and Eve?

Are we really having this conversation in 2011? I'm sure this would of been a fascinating conversation to have during the dark ages but in the 21st century? Really? It makes you wonder if this guy actually believes what he's saying or if he's just another snake oil salesman.

[LothairOfLorraine]

@CenkIsAdorable Actually, since this literature has survived for +/- 3000 years, it is well worth discussion. I wish more people were as facinated by classical literature as they are in following the banker owned stock market.

[CenkIsAdorable]

@LothairOfLorraine So in the 21st century, we should be listening to ideas that are 3000 years old? We should be clinging to stone age ideas? Hmm....

Well, I guess I have to kill my neighbor for mowing the lawn, as he's working on the Sabbath.

[Hufflewaffle]

What an embarrassing thing for a grown man to be seriously contemplating.

[BReasonable44]

if humans evolved from primates then adam and eve must have looked like gorillas, now if man was created in your god's image, then your god must look like a gorilla too!... also to whoever first wrote this genesis bs... my question is how could he have known what really happened? nobody was there or did this god came down one day and did a sort of interview with him to tell the story on how he did everything? this is nothing but bs and you're wasting your time discussing it.

[OpenAirAtheist]

@itarethetroll well said! couldn't agree with you more. lol I just debated this guy over the phone.You can watch and listen to the debate on my channel. A lot of faith little explanation. Watch him trying really hard not to give any meaningful definition of a soul. Of course we both know that he can't.

[JesusSatanAllah]

Christianity isn't the only form of theism possible. Biblical Christianity isn't the only form of Christianity possible. It is possible that there was a godman in the person of JC and the bible is an inaccurate depiction of his theology. Theistic evolution isn't, therefore, a contradiction. It is more plausible than biblical literalism because is comports with science better.

[gigglemanification]

according to modern psychology, myth is a very powerful tool of the unconscious, and i think you can't devalue mythology in light of what we now know about how it reflects the human psyche. myth is an excellent form of art. jesus spoke in parables. there is nothing wrong with it.

[infernvsnecrohag]

If Adam and Eve weren't real people, and eve didn't eat the apple, then for Christians, christ has no meaning, there is no purpose to the redemption because there was no fall of man. This is why liberal christians are so paradoxical to me.

HOWEVER we can demonstrate that Adam and Eve as they are described didn't exist... hence why I think it's all a pile of bunk.

[itarethetroll]

Lol "Faith & Reason Show"

That is a huge contradiction. It should be "Faith or Reason"

[FortuneInLies]

@itarethetroll But people who have faith actually believe they know reason. So it illustrates the point quite brilliantly :O

(I thought the same as you did when I saw that xD)

[vigilantezack]

@itarethetroll Not at all. People put FAITH in things because they have REASONS to do so. Matt's show is hours upon hours upon hours a week explaining reasons for faith. You'd be stupid to suggest faith and reason are somehow contradictory terms. Faith is just believing in some idea, reason is why you would put faith in it in the first place. It's impossible to have faith without reason involved. Not only are the terms NOT contradictory, they are actually inseparable.

[JACOESHMT]

@itarethetroll They go hand in hand

[huntmatuk]

I was in the CARM chat room when Diane made a rude comment along the lines of "What do you expect from a Catholic". I told her to apologise and she said, "Don't you dare lecture me". When I replied that no one was above being lectured to, she threw me out of the chat room.

[TheGruvTube]

It demolishes everything. Christianity falls like a house of cards.

[zach9899]

If heard it said many times, "If you don't STAND for something, you'll FALL for anything." But that's not true, its just a way to coerce someone into whatever belief and if you choose to stand for their belief than you've just fallen for it as well. The truth is that as we grow we learn what works and what doesn't. We learn how to get along with people and you don't have to have some hell or highwater put your foot down certainty about anything. its just mind control bs.

[zach9899]

The implications don't matter. What matters is the truth. And the truth is that if you ultimately trust the Bible as your source of truth you are trusting man and not God, because ultimately it is man who labels and individual a profit. It is man who spreads the word. It is man who passes the book down. There is another thing which can be trusted instead and it is the true God and he exists in objective truth and he is known through logic. If you trust the bible your allegience is to tradition.

[skitmarx]

happy to be first to comment btw,

[skitmarx]

Adam and Eve are the keystone of our Christian religion. I believe Adam and Eve are the parents of the human race and that Evolution was also real. The bible does not tell us how long Adam and Eve were in the garden of eden which implies that they could have been there forever since they couldnt die. meanwhile adam and eve were learning about themselves, God could have been "preparing" the earth or in other words evolution could have been taking place. Adam and Eve, our connected blood to God.

[EVSjahms]

@skitmarx -No, evolution could not have happened in that context because it's written that Adam lived 930 years. Adam (and Eve) were created mature and ideal along with everything else- God calling it very good. You would have to compromise God's nature and intention in order to squeeze man's weak theory into it. Once you make a habit of reinterpretation, you run the risk of altering the message and work of Christ (who is the Keystone!) as a whole.

[hotwhire]

@EVSjahms If Adam and Eve were the first humans, then how did they're (now) only son Cain, go and live somewhere else, find a wife, and have a child? This means that there were other people around MAGICLY who weren't Adam and Eve's offspring. And whats The explanation of the reperductive system if Adam can create woman from his rib cage.

[EVSjahms]

@hotwhire This just shows that you run with popular skeptic accusations without looking into it yourself (which can happen to us all). Genesis isolates Cain and Abel because of the importance of their story, but Genesis says that Adam and Eve had sons and daughters (Gen 5:4).

Adam didn't create the woman, God did. And floating ribs actually grow back. I suppose now you're gonna tell me that it would have been wrong for them to inbreed.

[hotwhire]

@EVSjahms And inbreeding is right why? Incest is wrong and would not create 6 billion people.

[EVSjahms]

@hotwhire If the human race was down to, say 2 people able to reproduce, would it be right or wrong for their children to continue the human race? There was not a problem, as far as DNA goes, because it's believed that Adam and Eve had ideal genetics, and the deformities caused by incest would not show up until the gene code fell much further from the ideal. There was also no command concerning marriages to relatives until much later.

[hotwhire]

@EVSjahms and animals? they did not start from 2 nore could they.