Alcoholism is a Disease?

[ndrthrdr1]

This video presents the truth.

If you're in AA and think that it's not true, you've been indoctrinated by cult members who have been indoctrinated by cult members.

[kterbo]

I'm in an addiction class at college and unfortunately I'm the black sheep. I feel it is a choice and a matter of poor coping skills,... and everyone else thinks it's a disease. They are fixed on the view and I feel strongly for this opposite 'choice' view point. Thank you for this video! See AA alternatives for some great backing on this subject.

[Hammersley1967]

The idea that alcoholism is a disease has always been a political and moral notion with no scientific basis. It was first promoted in the U.S. around 1785 as an erroneous physiological theory (Levine, 1978), and later became a theme of the temperance movement (Gusfield, 1963). It was revived by AA in the 1930s, which derived its views from an amalgam of religious ideas, personal experiences, anecdotal observations, and the unsubstantiated theories of a contemporary physician (Robinson, 1979)...

[Hammersley1967]

Good video...

Definitely one to be favourited...

It is actually the same subject matter as the first chapter of my PhD dissertation...

How are you going with that "other project" we were discussing?

[evet45]

2p: agian you fail to demonstrate ANY legitimate proof of your claims. There is so much science out there that demonstrates clearly the disease process of addiction, depression, and other types of diseases. Alcoholism can cause medical problems, however, the initial addiction process IS bio-chemical, and not all people are prone to this.

[2pWORTH]

@evet45 Hello sock puppet.....Again I fail to demonstrate?Or is it that you are far to much of a coward to accept there is nothing wrong with you?Move along sock......No one is interested in your lunacy.....These are not MY claims.....They are established facts...Even your own cult will admit that...Evet your a snivelling coward..PERIOD!

[2pWORTH]

@evet45 Cont....legitimate proof....How about this Only AA/NA members claim to have this disease.....Others move on....I see that every day....

If you have a Fatal progressive incurable disease why arent you dead?Also if you believe this disease is inherited why have you reproduced?

[2pWORTH]

@evet45

[2pWORTH]

@evet45 There is NO disease after detox..It is simply a choice....YOUR choice,,Now stop being such a cry baby and take responsibilty for your actions....

[2pWORTH]

@evet45 and AGAIN eve it is you that FAILS......To have any abilty to see the REAL truth,,,There is NOTHING wrong with you and hasnt been for years....You are merely playing the poor victim...You have FAILED to comit and therefore FAILED to succeed...Crying over yourself will not change that..

Check out The Baldwin Institute....Read it and weep!!

[iggerdanus]

Good video- keep em coming!

[2pWORTH]

@iggerdanus Thank igger.

[iggerdanus]

@2pWORTH Well I was just kidding.....

[2pWORTH]

@iggerdanus "Well I was just kidding..... "

No you werent.....You just slipped up and seen the light for a bit.....You know I am right...But I know you gotta act all hard in front of your AA/NA mates...So we can keep it between us....Can,t say fairer than that can ?Hush hush....A nods as good as a wink to a blind bat an all...

[iggerdanus]

@2pWORTH We aren't "in front" of anyone 2p, remember we are here on your videos now- a barren wasteland. Nobody going to hear this dialogue but you, me, and a bunch of mangy weasels.

431 views in over 6 months.......not good 2p, thats less than 3 a day. This video of yours ain't exactly going viral.

[2pWORTH]

@iggerdanus....The message is getting out Anus....YT is a small part of it.....More and more groups set up against AA/NA and expose it...I am a member of many...Therapists,doctors etc are also seeing it for what it is....I go to many meetings and people listen and walk away.....Things are going dandy...

[iggerdanus]

@2pWORTH HAHA, yeah I can just picture you out there running a "fools' errand"!

It's going strong where I live, thank goodness.

[2pWORTH]

@iggerdanus Well its going fine here too Anus...Lets see,there is me out in the open,contactable,showing me face in public.....Then there is you hiding behind an anonymous ID in an anonymous organisation...Who do you think is more credible?

There is a reason why you hide....and you do hide Anus...dont you...Mr no one knows who I am and NO one can trace me....Your one chicken puppy Anus....

[prschuster]

The disease model is so typical of the double talk I always hear about addiction. They admit that the decision to use is a choice and then they try to spin it around to say that this voluntary behavior becomes too compulsive to be a free choice anymore. I know you can't make clear decisions when you're half in the bag. Any idiot knows that. But they still try to claim that this disease follows you for the rest of your life after you detox. That's when they hook you on "recovery".

[Morethanenough1]

Disease...AK out of my controle. Society uses this to excuse any unwanted behaviour. Eating too much, ot eating enough, too much porn, drinking, drugs, even commiting crimes.

Some morons say they are geneticaly gered to drink..so what? Having a disposition to become an alcoholic doesnt mean you will be, you don't have to drink!

Weather or not some ppl find it easier to get addicted to something doesnt mean its not a choice. Its a pathetic view point made be weak ppl.

[11visionary11]

Well said.

Drinking, drug abuse and eating disorders are not diseases. Its sad that our culture is so afraid of "offending" some one and not being politicaly correct to say the truth.

Thanks for the vid.

[KenRagge]

Kudos! Very well researched and well presented.

[2pWORTH]

Thanks Ken! My Mrs (godlessweasel) loves your books!

[weinerout]

Two questions

1. Is it a bad thing to have detox and rehab for alcoholism covered by medical insurance?

2. Is alcoholism a medical condition?

[2pWORTH]

That really isnt the point of the video but...

1]No it is not.But that would be dependent on whether it would affect other people getting treatment for other things I think maybe one strike and your out..

Here the medical system works different.

2]No alcoholism is not a medical condition.The underlining causes maybe....e.g. dual diaganossis etc.

Every one makes mistakes bad choices..

Drinking is a choice..once detoxed.

[weinerout]

My questions were directed precisely to the point of your video. I believe that almost every informed person (medical and otherwise) would say that alcoholism is a medical condition.

But you have your own personal opinion on this, so I won't try to argue.

The message of your video is pointless. Yes, Marty Mann and many many other people worked tirelessly for years to have alcoholism covered by medical insurance. Most people (even you) feel that was a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. So?????

[2pWORTH]

Nah the video is about the manipulation of the disease theory by AA.

Your missing the point.

Once detoxed it becomes a choice...Not a life long disease....

[weinerout]

Alcoholics Anonymous has never promoted a "disease theory" .

The Big Book which is the official textbook of AA never mentions "disease".

If you want to learn something, read "the doctor's opinion" in the BB. This opinion is the closest AA comes to discussing alcoholism in a medical context.

[2pWORTH]

Watch the video again and also read your newcommers packs.....

[artdietrich]

go home baby

[KenRagge]

@weinerout Actually, p.227 3rd Edition "I was suffering from an actual disease that had a name and symptoms like diabetes or cancer..."

Other early Big Book references by the earliest members to alcoholism as a disease can be found on pages 187, 191, 307 and 308.

"The Doctor's Opinion" was written by William Silkworth, the Oxford Grouper who gave Wilson Hallucinogens and "oxfordized" him in treatment at Town's Hospital making Wilson a fellow Grouper. Hardly a medical reference.

[anotherbusbozo]

The Official text of the Big Book ends at page 164. The rest of the book is individual histories where people give their personal experience and opinions. Some alcoholics believe they have a disease. Others do not. AA calls it an illness

Silkworth called it "the manifistation of an allergy" and stated it as AN OPINION, not a medical fact. Just an opinion.

What do YOU call it?

[2pWORTH]

Oh hello weiner or whoever the fuck you are today! The 12x12 calls it a 'fatal malady' and the big book calls it 'a hopeless condition of mind and body.'

NA calls it 'a disease from which there is no cure'

Me - I call it repeated, willful stupidity, a CHOICE.

[sk8forlife90]

they tell them that so they can feel hopeless and drink themselves away, and keep coming back to their orginizations in looks of help so they can rob them of their money. it's a bussiness. and their bussiness is to trick the easily tricked to keep coming back to them hopelessly and give them their money. they are greedy ass bastards who have no agenda to help the ones their saying their helping.

[anotherbusbozo]

2pWorth

Just to be accurate- AA calls it-

"A SEEMINGLY hopeless state of mind and body"

I would say that's a pretty good description. My comment was directed at KenRagge who wants to insist that AA defines alcoholism from a medical perspective. My point is the the closest official AA medical opinion is given by Dr Silkworth.

[2pWORTH]

Sorry to disagree, but I have read ALL of the literature, not just one page. Also, the pack given out to newcomers clearly states that it is a disease on a par with cancer and heart disease. As if a disease can be arrested through prayer ROFL! Read p174 of the 12x12 - it states that if people do not work the program they sign their own death-warrents. Such fear-mongering lies are abusive.

[godlessweasel]

Big Book page 227 'an actual disease with symptons just like cancer and tuberculosis...'

Care to explain that one away, genius?

[sk8forlife90]

"A SEEMINGLY hopeless state of mind and body"

that's a BAD statement. it's not hopeless at all. alcoholics need to learn how to control them selves like they control everything else in life, and learn how to have fun without alcohol and be able to enjoy life with out it. of course their going to make alcoholics feel as hopeless as possible, so they can profit off of them staying in their program.

[KenRagge]

What do I call "alcoholism"? I kind of like the term "folk disease."

[KenRagge]

Of course not. AA members get together in front organizations and promote things like disease, AA and treatment without using the AA name. Don't you know how it is supposed to be done? Haven't you read the AA literature? Do you know nothing about the "Traditions"?

[anotherbusbozo]

"fromt organizations" The secret ones? The ones nobody knows about?

I know the traditions well, and I know that AA doesn't mess around with any "front" groups. I think you know it too, but you just like that "conspiracy" stuff. "Promote things like disease" Do you realize how stupid that sounds? How much do you really know about Nathan Falwell?

[godlessweasel]

Bullshit. AA has many front groups - the first of which was set up by Marty Mann. I've made an entire video which just scratches the surface of this subject. Do your research.

[sk8forlife90]

alcoholism is not a disease, there for it is bullshit that AA promotes it as so. it's also bullshit that AA trys to convert you to cristianity.

[Hammersley1967]

@weinerout

"My questions were directed precisely to the point of your video. I believe that almost every informed person (medical and otherwise) would say that alcoholism is a medical condition."

No...

Although government policy influences the PUBLIC opinions of physicians, ANONYMOUS survey results consistently demonstrate that between 73.7% and 92.4% of physicians in the western world DO NOT recognise alcoholism a a "medical condition" (see: Rosta J. 2004)...

[2pWORTH]

Goodbye, weeniebrain.

[Hammersley1967]

@weinerout (I mean quickcap)

1) No

2) No - alcoholism is not a "medical condition". It is a behaviour.. You can't perform an autopsy on an alcoholic and find "alcoholism"...

[GonzoRecovery]

This is a belting piece of work !!!! Well done that man !

[dmdum]

Very interesting. Much research must have gone to produce this.

[aartvegan]

Thank you, that was very interesting.

[maklininak]

great stuff. Great info, and well thought out.