Thank you for these video's. This is somehthing that I've been noticing for many years and I am not surprised that it has come to a "frumqa." This is a sickness.
The podcast did silence covered women by not presenting one to speak for herself. As for "excessive" who gives anyone the right to decide that foe someone else?
@TheShahrazad1 ... It's a Jewish podcast where Jewish guests report/ discuss on news items or issues related to the Jewish community around the world. It's up to them to comment on the topic as they wish. This particular item is about a tiny group of women who don't engage with the media. It's clear in the discussion that the views about female modesty are understood to be an important aspect of Judaism. You seem to be taking this all very personally and it doesn't involve you.
The dialogue on this "issue" may be a good thing. The insulting, condescension is definitely not a good thing. A covered woman isn't necessarily a silent one. Modesty isn't a joke! Next time, you may want to consider having the input of a covered woman, whom YOU silenced w/ this show.
@TheShahrazad1 ... Thanks for your opinion. I don't think the podcast will "silence" any covered women. I think it is only the degree to which this small group of Jewish women have decided to cover that is the issue being discussed, for examples the multiple skirts. I think most Jewish or Muslim or Christian women who dress modestly would find this excessive.
Far from trying to disappear or be invisible, as it were, I presume that many Untra Orthodox Jewish women are dressing this way primary to feel and seem more devout, to do more religiously, and to in a way assert themselves as women in religiously-acceptable ways within their community. I would guess that there is an element of personal and spiritual pride that goes with this, and that the main reason is religiosity rather than a desrise to be unseen.
IT sounds to me that the woman giving the interview is very inexperienced and speaking from her basic knowledge of what she sees around her and her formed opinion. Before becoming an expert on her observation, she would be best to go into these communities and study the reasons for herself. I think these women are amazing.
"There's no evidence that there isn't a god either."
You can't disprove any of the fictional gods people have believed in. Like Thor, Allah, Eros, etc.
"Science is not always backed up by 'facts'. Much of it is unproven and theoretical, including the 'theory of evolution'."
Fail. Let me guess, the torah contains facts, but evolution is "just a theory", hm? You need to acquaint yourself with the scientific definition of the word "theory".
I have no interest in proving to you that God exists. You either have faith or you don't. And btw I'm not Jewish. I actually used to be an atheist until I started to look into different religions, philosophies and belief systems. Atheism is your choice and you're welcome to it but it has nothing for me.
The universe is ancient... love is ancient... human life is ancient... wisdom is ancient... are they also 'outdated'? Neither science nor modernity have managed to disprove that God exists. If you don't want to explore the possibility of faith, that's your choice.
There is a difference between something being old, and it being outdated. A bronze-age belief, best suited to a nomadic, warlike people, living before the advent of modern science. When applied to a modern, technological society, then yes, it is obsolete. It's like trying to get on the internet with a clay tablet.
Science may not have been able to disprove (yet) that some sort of god-like being may exist or have existed somewhere in the universe, but that's not the full extent of your religious belief, is it. Do you believe in Adam and Eve? Science proves that snakes cannot talk, and that we were in fact evolved from an ape-like ancestor which we share with modern chimps.
The geological record proves that the earth is billions of years old, not thousands, as the Bible claims. All of this aside, the main piece of evidence against the existence of God, is the utter lack of evidence that he exists. Saying "explore the possibility of faith" is like saying "explore the health benefits of arsenic." Faith is not about exploring, it's about turning your mind off.
@yerk3 the bible never claims the earth is thousands of years old..as a matter of fact it never mentions the age of the earth. Only extremist creationist claim that. If you disagree with a religon atleast know the facts from its holy book.
oclandestin: Atheism is not the "choice" of the atheist, it is simply the most logical conclusion. You say it has "nothing" for you, it isn't supposed to "have anything." Atheism isn't a thing, it is the absence of religion. "Faith" is no virtue, it's basically believing in something despite there being no evidence. There's another word for that: gullibility.
@lahwitcha I find it fascinating how men must be protected from women, yet women never have to be protected from men. Also, if a man can't control himself, that's his affair and not the woman's.
If Moshiach himself does come due to these righteous women and their penitence, but then he tells them they no longer need to wear the 7-layer frumka because he's already here... will they listen to him or will they reject the blasphemy of having a man who's neither their husband nor their Rabbi telling them to take off their righteous covers of modesty?
Shalom... I'd be interested to know how many layers of clothing are considered 'righteous' or sufficiently modest according to your particular interpretation of Judaism? Do you think that while the intention of these women is noble, they have perhaps gone to an unnecessary extreme? Fewer layers could be equally modest, as shown by Muslim women who wear the niqab or a burqa...
The "7 layers" thing is the particular obsession of that group. Rabbinical guides only specify that clothing should not be see-through when covering that which should be covered.
A woman with long skirt, long sleeves, closed neck dress and not too-tight clothes is basically safe in every Orthodox Jewish place in the world.
Married women cover their hair, but no Burka or eve Hejab style covering is necessary: a snood or a fine wig will do.
Thanks for the reply. The dress codes sound very similar to Islamic codes. I've noticed many orthodox Jewish women seem to wear a headscarf (tichel) especially in Israel... is that not recommended in Jewish law?
I'm not your "bro". Again, you state as fact what is merely your opinion, which of course you're entitled to, but it doesn't undermine anyone's religious beliefs. I find atheism "lame" but it's a pointless comment.
Not only 'frumka' or more extreme modesty, but also rise of niquab etc. are indeed often the last self-expression possible to women who have been marginalised and silenced completely.
Thank you for these video's. This is somehthing that I've been noticing for many years and I am not surprised that it has come to a "frumqa." This is a sickness.
estherhadas 9 months ago
The podcast did silence covered women by not presenting one to speak for herself. As for "excessive" who gives anyone the right to decide that foe someone else?
TheShahrazad1 10 months ago
@TheShahrazad1 ... It's a Jewish podcast where Jewish guests report/ discuss on news items or issues related to the Jewish community around the world. It's up to them to comment on the topic as they wish. This particular item is about a tiny group of women who don't engage with the media. It's clear in the discussion that the views about female modesty are understood to be an important aspect of Judaism. You seem to be taking this all very personally and it doesn't involve you.
oclandestin 10 months ago
@TheShahrazad1 Who invented the frumka and where does the name come from?
TheCentralServices 1 month ago
The dialogue on this "issue" may be a good thing. The insulting, condescension is definitely not a good thing. A covered woman isn't necessarily a silent one. Modesty isn't a joke! Next time, you may want to consider having the input of a covered woman, whom YOU silenced w/ this show.
TheShahrazad1 10 months ago
@TheShahrazad1 ... Thanks for your opinion. I don't think the podcast will "silence" any covered women. I think it is only the degree to which this small group of Jewish women have decided to cover that is the issue being discussed, for examples the multiple skirts. I think most Jewish or Muslim or Christian women who dress modestly would find this excessive.
oclandestin 10 months ago
Far from trying to disappear or be invisible, as it were, I presume that many Untra Orthodox Jewish women are dressing this way primary to feel and seem more devout, to do more religiously, and to in a way assert themselves as women in religiously-acceptable ways within their community. I would guess that there is an element of personal and spiritual pride that goes with this, and that the main reason is religiosity rather than a desrise to be unseen.
graceinmay 10 months ago
this is pathetic- 0:16 "presumably you werent stuffed into a frumka"
It's the free choice of these women to dress this way. The frumka is being made out to be imposed now. what pathetic behaviour.
kaashee 1 year ago
@kaashee ... He was just making a joke... and referring to what she would have been made to wear as a child.
oclandestin 1 year ago
IT sounds to me that the woman giving the interview is very inexperienced and speaking from her basic knowledge of what she sees around her and her formed opinion. Before becoming an expert on her observation, she would be best to go into these communities and study the reasons for herself. I think these women are amazing.
Sweetashanni 1 year ago
I think it's a good thing that the woman preserves and that men are not tempted by such form and nudity
lahwitcha 2 years ago
love how this just turned into a religion vs.science debate. Get a room guys!
shurikenofdoom 2 years ago
Things wont change for women until they change it!!!!!
cbrun67176 2 years ago
"There's no evidence that there isn't a god either."
You can't disprove any of the fictional gods people have believed in. Like Thor, Allah, Eros, etc.
"Science is not always backed up by 'facts'. Much of it is unproven and theoretical, including the 'theory of evolution'."
Fail. Let me guess, the torah contains facts, but evolution is "just a theory", hm? You need to acquaint yourself with the scientific definition of the word "theory".
region1111 2 years ago
I have no interest in proving to you that God exists. You either have faith or you don't. And btw I'm not Jewish. I actually used to be an atheist until I started to look into different religions, philosophies and belief systems. Atheism is your choice and you're welcome to it but it has nothing for me.
oclandestin 2 years ago
Have fun adhering to an ancient, outdated, disproved belief system.
region1111 2 years ago
The universe is ancient... love is ancient... human life is ancient... wisdom is ancient... are they also 'outdated'? Neither science nor modernity have managed to disprove that God exists. If you don't want to explore the possibility of faith, that's your choice.
oclandestin 2 years ago
There is a difference between something being old, and it being outdated. A bronze-age belief, best suited to a nomadic, warlike people, living before the advent of modern science. When applied to a modern, technological society, then yes, it is obsolete. It's like trying to get on the internet with a clay tablet.
yerk3 2 years ago
Science may not have been able to disprove (yet) that some sort of god-like being may exist or have existed somewhere in the universe, but that's not the full extent of your religious belief, is it. Do you believe in Adam and Eve? Science proves that snakes cannot talk, and that we were in fact evolved from an ape-like ancestor which we share with modern chimps.
yerk3 2 years ago
The geological record proves that the earth is billions of years old, not thousands, as the Bible claims. All of this aside, the main piece of evidence against the existence of God, is the utter lack of evidence that he exists. Saying "explore the possibility of faith" is like saying "explore the health benefits of arsenic." Faith is not about exploring, it's about turning your mind off.
yerk3 2 years ago
@yerk3 the bible never claims the earth is thousands of years old..as a matter of fact it never mentions the age of the earth. Only extremist creationist claim that. If you disagree with a religon atleast know the facts from its holy book.
YuhGrammy 1 year ago
oclandestin: Atheism is not the "choice" of the atheist, it is simply the most logical conclusion. You say it has "nothing" for you, it isn't supposed to "have anything." Atheism isn't a thing, it is the absence of religion. "Faith" is no virtue, it's basically believing in something despite there being no evidence. There's another word for that: gullibility.
yerk3 2 years ago
I think it's a good thing that the woman preserves and that men are not tempted by such form and nudity
lahwitcha 2 years ago
@lahwitcha I find it fascinating how men must be protected from women, yet women never have to be protected from men. Also, if a man can't control himself, that's his affair and not the woman's.
Women get turned on too, you know. ;)
stupidreamer 1 month ago
If Moshiach himself does come due to these righteous women and their penitence, but then he tells them they no longer need to wear the 7-layer frumka because he's already here... will they listen to him or will they reject the blasphemy of having a man who's neither their husband nor their Rabbi telling them to take off their righteous covers of modesty?
rafvrab 2 years ago
Shalom... I'd be interested to know how many layers of clothing are considered 'righteous' or sufficiently modest according to your particular interpretation of Judaism? Do you think that while the intention of these women is noble, they have perhaps gone to an unnecessary extreme? Fewer layers could be equally modest, as shown by Muslim women who wear the niqab or a burqa...
oclandestin 2 years ago
The "7 layers" thing is the particular obsession of that group. Rabbinical guides only specify that clothing should not be see-through when covering that which should be covered.
A woman with long skirt, long sleeves, closed neck dress and not too-tight clothes is basically safe in every Orthodox Jewish place in the world.
Married women cover their hair, but no Burka or eve Hejab style covering is necessary: a snood or a fine wig will do.
rafvrab 2 years ago
Thanks for the reply. The dress codes sound very similar to Islamic codes. I've noticed many orthodox Jewish women seem to wear a headscarf (tichel) especially in Israel... is that not recommended in Jewish law?
oclandestin 2 years ago
@oclandestin
hi, im not jewist, but i like to know the similarities between abrahamic religion...
anyway just want to show you this
v=VJSH0c74GSA
(paste it in the address bar) its related to your question
kurokamei 1 year ago
@kurokamei ... Hi. Thanks for the link. He speaks very well. Is it right that he died?
oclandestin 1 year ago
@oclandestin
ya... i asked the people who used to follow his channel, they said he involved in car accident last year. poor fellow.
kurokamei 1 year ago
@kurokamei ... That's really sad. May Allah have mercy upon his soul.
oclandestin 1 year ago
Very interesting commentary, very good overall!
queskribes 2 years ago
Religion = fail.
Atheism is the only rational choice.
region1111 2 years ago
Thank you for that in-depth analysis.
oclandestin 2 years ago
> Thank you for that in-depth analysis.
Not much else to say here bro.
People cover themselves up like that because they think they're going to get some sort of divine reward, and it's just not going to happen.
It's a lame practice no matter what religion it's in. Judaism, Islam, Christianity (nuns).
region1111 2 years ago
I'm not your "bro". Again, you state as fact what is merely your opinion, which of course you're entitled to, but it doesn't undermine anyone's religious beliefs. I find atheism "lame" but it's a pointless comment.
oclandestin 2 years ago
Atheism isn't lame. Religion is lame. That "opinion as fact" thing sounds a lot more like religion than atheism.
There's no evidence for a god.
Science, on the other hand, is backed up by facts. So there.
region1111 2 years ago
Now THIS is one sensible discussion!
Not only 'frumka' or more extreme modesty, but also rise of niquab etc. are indeed often the last self-expression possible to women who have been marginalised and silenced completely.
elizahaha 2 years ago
Rise of niqab after it was banned by the Europeans. Women banned from leaving their houses wearing such clothes.
faro0485 2 years ago
wow, this is interesting indeed!
redfootwalking 3 years ago 4
@redfootwalking bounch of lies.
Burqa in Judaism and Christianity:
Genesis 38:15 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face.
perrik7 1 year ago
LOL! and they call us extremists?
Masha-allah, Islam is the middle path and the forbidden and permissible things have been made clear to us already...
Gr8virtue 3 years ago
Alhamdulillah : )
oclandestin 3 years ago