I am not Greek Orthodox, but I figured that the Patriarch of one of the oldest continuing churches, he might have some better insight as to the meaning of 1:1, as he is also fluent in Ancient Greek, Aramaic, Arabic, and Biblical Greek (just to name a few). If, as you state, that it means "devine," then you and I agree, since the meaning of devine is "Having the nature of or being a deity." You did not say "devine-like" so I'm taking you at your word. Thanks for the input...have a Blessed Day!
Why would you ask a Patriarch of the Eastern Orthodox church what the passage means? OBVIOUSLY he has an enormous stake in it saying 'God' rather than 'a God'. You need to find an independent/secular Greek scholar to explain it to you and my understanding is that it means 'divine' - as in the Logos is divine much like 'Wisdom' from 'The Wisdom of Solomon'. Please research the Greek Logos and Wisdom that John patterned this incarnation of Jesus after.
And why did you go with the pretext of 'knowing more about his church and get to know him' when clearly you went to only ask one question--as you stated at the very beginning. Ugh.
@Grayhatt I don't understand your first post at all. Secondly, we shot over an hour worth of video with many questions...but this is the one question and answer that we wanted to share. Please don't make sarcastic comments when you know not of what you speak.
@Cascade47 I know you shot more video than what was on here, I'm not dense, the editing is obvious. You however clearly introduced the video with an entirely different motive than what you told him. And who speaks like this: "you know not of what you speak"?
@Cascade47 are there any more videos with questions like this? that you may have gotten him to answer, or maybe just the whole interview? would love to see it thanks
Jesus is Divine not because the Bible says so. But because HE says so, His Body -the Church teaches so, and the saints testify to this reality. Stop bickering and start praying! ICXC NIKA
@nojoso Jesus is divine because he came from God. In fact the angels can be considered divine as well. Divine doesn't = GOD. Divine means from God, of God, godlike, godly, etc.
@Grayhatt yes, divine means from God, of God, godlike, etc. and Jesus is the Divine Son of God- God from God, light from light. The Angels can be considered divine but not in the same way as Jesus who shares in the very reality of God. Angels are created beings.
@nojoso Believe what you want. To us there is only "ONE GOD, the Father." Because there has always only been 1 person, or LORD considered GOD. De. 6:4 We have never been taught by Christ that the God he worshiped consisted of 3 persons. Ga. 3:20.
@Grayhatt Christ teaches that He and the Father are One (John 10:30 & John 17). There is One God, the Father- and His Son who was with Him from the beginning (John 1)and in whom dwells the fullness of divinity (Colossians 2:9) is of the same essence of the Father. Christ did not forbid the disciples from worshiping Him after His resurrection and He told of the Spirit of God whom He would send from the Father- there we have clear knowledge of the Triune nature of God.
@nojoso One what? If you read the entire chapter you would understand he says the same about his disciples. Are we to believe they are included in that "One God" too? 'being one' is used in the Scriptures extensively, and none of the other examples mean what you are trying to make it mean in that text. Again none of that has shown that Christ taught us he was a 3 in 1 God. If anything he taught us that he too was a worshiper of God, his Father.
@nojoso As I mentioned, believe what you wish, I am not seeking to change your mind at all, but to defend simply that what Christ taught was always simple to understand about his Father, not mysterious as many have often described this teaching.
@Lad24LFC, and I have had many many Greeks, scholars as well as regular folks, tell me that the way it is in the KJB, is the correct translation...that it is the way the original apostles thought and believed. I've read the NWT, and it is false. Yes, JWs suffered persecution at the hands of the nazi pigs...and so did Jews, gypsies, and the mentally difficient...what's your point? The vast majority of scholarship is that the correct and only translation is not "a god." Thought, that is yours.
@Cascade47 Ok. Then answer for me just one question. Why, in YOUR bible was an "a" inserted in Acts 28:6 in relation to Paul . I welcome your answer?
Jehovah's Witnesses suffered much persecution and torture in the Nazi concentration camps and endured many trials with the possibility of death every single day, they had the easy option of release by denying their faith but chose to remain faithful to Jehovah. Even having there own colour of identity, a purple triangle. Meanwhile your religious leaders were blessing the warring troops on both sides. We beat our swords into plowshares and showed faith under extreme test. Would you do the same?
Please: all JWs, please do not try to justify your false belief. Only you believe the way you do. Its like the old Norwegian proverb of the mother looking at her son in the parade and states, "Look, only my son is marching in-step...everyone is is out of step."
@Cascade47 I am so glad you deleted my reasonable explanation of John 1:1. I am a Greek person and understand Greek fully and you have denied people from making their own minds up. This is victory to me.
THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION FOR THE GREEK JW READS IN JOHN 1:1
Στην αρχή ήταν ο Λόγος, και ο Λόγος ήταν μαζί με τον Θεό, και ο Λόγος ήταν θεός
2.COPY THIS VERSE FROM THE WATCHTOWER ORG SITE. 3.GO TO TRANSLATE.GOOGLE.COM.4 PASTE IT THERE. 5 CHOOSE GREEK-TO-ENGLISH
AND THE TRANSLATION READS:
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.!!! A GREEK AUDIENCE CAN'T BE FOOLED-FOR THE NOW HOW GREEK GRAMMAR WORKS.
@Cascade47 No. Orthodox Patriarchs are called in western world as Greek Orthodox Patriarch. But he is just Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem. Greek Patriarch is Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople. You have other Patriarchs as Serbian,Russian,Alexandria... They are not Greek,only Constantinople is Greek.
i really was hoping he was going to do a translation of it.
not just say what he thinks it is saying.
1 John 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
@CRJarvis ...your comment is nearly incoherent. Accordingly, and as clearly as it is possible to communicate with someone, I will tell you that the Patriarch did translate the relevant text right in the video. Rerun it if need be, but he said that St John said that the Logos is God. You may not like it, but that is what he said, and is in fact what the text itself says. Regarding your comment that the Logos is the same word as elohiym, please see my note above about being incoherent.
Why is this priest treated like a king he is waited upon like he's more special than Christ. Jesus never had this kind of treatment did he? This Greek Orthodox priest lives better than Christ Jesus himself did. In fact I notice that priests, depending where they live, live a rich wealthy lifestyle. Christ was the greatest man that ever lived and yet he was a simple man a carpenter. Why is it that these ones live such a contrasting lifestyle to Christ and yet claim to follow in his footsteps?
You are, of course, correct in your observations. We went, however, to get historical information about the truth of the Word. The Patriarch was indeed, a great source of knowledge, as well as being very gracious.
We might paraphrase your own question by putting it this way: Why is this "king" or "clan leader" (Patriarch) waiting on these guests? A monk brings a tray of drinks, from which Theophilus takes two glasses. The first glass that Theophilus removes from the tray, he hands to Mike Caba, who is one of his guests in the entourage. But to answer your question more directly, I would identify the trappings and property as indicative of two functions that the Patriarch performs:1.spiritual, 2. temporal.
@MrOnamision1 Your assertion is false. Christ is worshiped, this bishop is not. Respect is given to this bishop because he is a leader, a teacher, a theologian, an elder. He is NOT however treated as a king.
Your reference to priests and the like living like royalty is not true in the Orthodox Christian Church. Perhaps in the medieval Roman Catholic Church, yes.
Please research this further.
May God Bless you and send down His Holy Spirit upon you!
@MrOnamision1 well Theofilos is a family friend of many years, and we all knew him way before he got his patriarch position.. I remember him as an extremely humble, kind, intelligent person.. extravagance just isnt something he was ever interested in.. if the ceremonies look fancy or the his surroundings, well thats not his doing.. and i dont think we can call it extravagance.. just wanted to make that point about him.. if anyone deserves position its him..
@monopthalmoss His position is like a "bridge". He is like a guide and will teach all those that have in Christ, he will try to guide you with the best of his Othodox faith in the right direction.
He is not there as king like the other Ilithio is stating.
Where exactly did you see that in this Video, That he is treated like a king, why because the brought him and his guests juice to drink during the interview? If you have guest that come to your home or in workplace will you not offer any hospitality??? Is that your reasoning, What do you know abouth Greek orthodox priests, Do you have any clue what Christian Ortodox means? That man there is just a messenger and is more humble then you think,there are no theatrics , just undevoted love to Christ.
I Believe you are adding words to Scripture. Jesus did not say "The Father is the true God", but that the Father was GREATER than he. To be greater does not mean to be better. The President is greater than me, but by no means better than me. We are both of the same essence or type of being. Jesus' claim of being the Son of God was equal to claim that he was equal to God. Read John 10:30 and following. There are more examples in Scripture showing his equality with God in essence.
No offense djbehemoth, but you are mistaken on several counts, most notably, John 1:1 is clearly not "poetry", and Jesus did not "always" deflect peoples' statements regarding his full Diety, in fact he often encouraged it. For instance, after Thomas "said to him, 'My Lord and my God' Jesus replied "Because you have seen me you have believed". The Gospel of John, from beginning to end, testifies to the Divine nature of Jesus.
The truly ironic thing about the Jehovahs Witnesses misuse of the Coptic language in their attempt to cast doubt on the Trinity is that the greatest Trinitarian champion of all time, Athanasius himself, was, believe it or not, a Coptic! In fact, he is even considered to be one of their Popes. Athanasius and his fellow Coptics obviously understood the nuances of their own language better than the modern abusers thereof, and preached the Trinity loud and clear.
Actually, the divine Triune nature of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit was understood very early after the Resurrection of Christ. In circa 175AD, Athenagoras wrote: Who then, would not be astonished to hear men called atheists who speak of God the Father, and of God the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and who declare both their power in union and their distinction in order?
Whizzy, please respect the veracity and honor of this site. Cultists are just regurgitating specious opinions for the sake of argumentnot for the sake of debate. I created this video to get the information on this subject from the closest modern source. You cant argue with the factsJesus is part of the Triune identity of our God. I close with Baruch HaShem Adonai!
Since the translation issue has been decided in favor of the Christian/Trinitarians, lets start a dialogue on another subject: The belief in the Trinity and the full deity of Christ before Nicea in 325 AD. I will post daily for a while. For instance, Ignatius, a disciple of the apostle John himself, wrote in 110 AD (only 10 years after the death of John) Continue in intimate union with Jesus Christ, our God. Hmmmm. I wonder where he learned to talk like that?
Vhlizzy - For sake of argument: grant the Coptic indefinite article, but note two points (1) They understood it differently than you are taking it. An indefinite article in Coptic is not exactly equivalent to an indefinite in English. Please remember, the Coptics are Trinitarian Christians-see below. (2) But once again, the New Testament was written in KOINE GREEK, not Coptic, and we understand KOINE well - see the Patriarch. No need to divert to Coptic, and, in any case, to misunderstand them.
So it is translated "a god", thank you. Coptics today believe the trinity, but the christian church was pretty much divided before Nicea 325. The Sahidic could be as old as 188 CE and text tells us how early exegetes interpreted John 1:1, apart from the influence of later dogma and philosophical Trinitarianism. DO you know you know Greek better than the Coptics is what I asked. Now what did the indefinite article mean to them? Is god considered an entity or something abstract?
You twisted my statement. The "a god" translation is exactly what I do not grant, as is evident from my post. In regard to a true understanding of John, see Itmattered above, who quotes the earliest and closest source known, his direct disciple Ignatius, who teaches unambiguously that Jesus was God.
Quote from a Coptic Website: The Coptic Orthodox Church believes that the Holy Trinity: God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit, are equal to each other in one unity; and that the Lord Jesus Christ is the only Savior of the world. Less changes have taken place in the Coptic Church than in any other church whether in the ritual or doctrine aspects and that the succession of the Coptic Patriarchs, Bishops, priests and Deacons has been continuous.
You are avoiding the topic. I can't have it both ways? A bad argument? What is the argument? John 1:1 and yes being close in time to the language gives them a much better understanding to translate. Coptic also happens to be closer to and easier to translate into english. So stick to the topic and translate Coptic NEUNOUTE. Maybe you can teach me something, so far you're just hot air.
Thank you for the admission of error. My friend, its clear you simply have no education in Coptic, Greek or church history, so Im not going to pound on you further. Suffice to say, the Coptics are Trinitarians, espousing the clear deity of Christ, and that the Trinity is not a doctrine of the 3rd & 4th century. Please consider that the cult leaders, who have you wrapped around the axle with this Coptic diversion, are really the ones whose history you should ponder.
You can spare the mercy and enlighten me on what your educated opinion of Coptic John 1.1. Did they know Koine Greek better than you and thePatriarch? The Coptics may have believed the trinity is interesting since they translated neunoute without prejudices. Can you translate NEUNOUTE? Cult? Are you saying that no Coptic Scholar supports the translation a god. Consider the bias of those who translated the KJV. Tell me what source manuscript that contains the KJV verse 1 John 5:7?
Vhlizzy - Your fundamental assumption, as I read you postings, is that the Coptics, being an ancient group, must have had more insight into John 1:1 than we do today, and thus we should listen to them. Although this is a bad argument, I will follow your train of thought and ask you if you believe, as the Coptics do, in the Trinity? You cant have it both ways my friend, rejecting and accepting just as it pleases you.
Sorry, you dont have your facts right. For instance, your quote: "Coptic was used and translated before Koine Greek " is, to put it nicely, just wrong. Koine Greek is not a translation of the New Testament, but the ORIGINAL LANGUAGE of the N.T. Therefore, an Egyptian Coptic translation could not be before it. If you want an exact word for word, in order, translation, here it is: IN BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH THE GOD, AND GOD WAS THE WORD. No question at all what it means.
I stand corrected. But the Coptic alphabet is based on classical Greek which was before Koine. The Coptic translation of Koine Greek was done when Koine was stil used. The translators were much closer to understanding what the scriptures said than later translations and before the influence of the churches from the 4th and 5th century (and this video). The Sahidic text renders John 1:1c as "auw neunoute pe pshaje", clearly meaning literally and a god was the Word. ne =was un =a oute =god
The Monotesseron by John S. Thompson contains the infamous "a". Mr. Thompson heard voices from the spirit world. He reports one such encounter as follows: I heard a voice very distinctly, saying,
- In all your writings, be careful to represent Jesus as only the instrument of God in all he does (Chretien, 1988:170).
The number of translations that do not show the article vastly overwhelms those that do. That is not relevant, though. What is relevant is what the original Greek text says. The Patriarch, a fluent Greek speaker, apparently believes that the text is saying that Christ = the Word = God.
a DEFINITE PREDICATE NOMINATIVE HAS THE ARTICLE WHEN IT FOLLOWS THE VERB, IT DOES NOT HAVE THE ARTICLE WHEN IT PRECEDES THE VERB. THE PREDECATIVE NOMINATIVE "god" PRECEDES THE VERB "WAS". THE ORDER OF THE GREEK TEXT IS "GOD WAS THE WORD" tHAT ORDER EMPHASIZES cHRIST'S DEITY, AND EXPLAINS THE ABSENCE OF THE DEFINITE ARTICLE. AND BESIDES THERE IS NO DEFINITE ARTICLE "a"IN THE GREEK!
"En arhi in o logos ke o logos in pros ton theon ke theos in o logos." Thats the original transcript in Greek. It does not say anywhere a god it clearly says god "Ton Theon" GOD. In order to get an accurate understanding you must refer to the original writings, translations loss the meaning. In ancient Greek one word can have that much meaning you need 10 english words to translate it.
A New Translation by Johannes Greber includes the infamous "a". Mr. Greber was a Catholic priest who converted to spiritism. The following quote, taken from his New Testament, explains the means by which he produced his work: At times he was given the correct answers in large illuminated letters and words passing before his eyes. His wife, a medium of Gods Spiritworld was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from Gods messengers to Pastor Greber (Greber, 1937:4).
Uhhh, are you sure about that? Every person I've heard from who actually knows Greek will tell you that the text doesnt say "'a' God". Only the NWT decides to translate it differently, for their own purposes.
Patriarhs are the criminals all if theme they killed jesus christ
raitasorin 2 weeks ago
@raitasorin Maybe you are mixing up with Pharisees???
Cascade47 2 weeks ago
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edavisdavis 2 months ago
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edavisdavis 2 months ago
The Patriarch is correct.+.case closed!!!
Α.+.Ω
Soteris1 3 months ago
انت تعبدون من دون الله
اوا تقولون على الله ما لا تعقلون
zakariaaadriaklim 3 months ago
@zakariaaadriaklim ربما... ربما لا!
biblewaytolive 3 months ago
@biblewaytolive
كيف ربما ؟ اعطيني دليلا
zakariaaadriaklim 3 months ago
{... καὶ-AND Θεὸς-GOD ἦν-WAS ὁ-THE Λόγος-LOGOS}. the part of John 1:1
Logos comes in the flesh.
He is known in english, as Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is the ONLY begotten, non-created, non-made, begotten Son of God, very God of very God, in the flesh.
scanmangr 6 months ago 2
Totally owned!!!! Ah ha ha ha ha ha !!! Of course anyone that can read Greek knows it means " kai theos en ho logos" GOD was the WORD!
SavedSinner71 6 months ago
THIS IS NOT THE PATRIARCH OF JERUSALEM
THE REAL PATRIARCH IRINAIOS IS JAILED
WHILE THIS PSEUDOPATRAIARCH COLABORATES WITH ZIONISTS
uoitofsogroj 7 months ago
Ok, that wasn't very helpfull.
bluefish704 7 months ago
JESUS IS NOT A GOD,,,END OF STORY...
XBAGREMX 8 months ago
First member of the trinity The Father
Second member of the trinity The Son
Third member of the trinity The Holy Spirit
And is equal one God
God the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob the God of Israel manifest in this world in the flesh in His Son Jesus Christ.
He is not a God He is the God, no other God.
jimespay 8 months ago 3
I am not Greek Orthodox, but I figured that the Patriarch of one of the oldest continuing churches, he might have some better insight as to the meaning of 1:1, as he is also fluent in Ancient Greek, Aramaic, Arabic, and Biblical Greek (just to name a few). If, as you state, that it means "devine," then you and I agree, since the meaning of devine is "Having the nature of or being a deity." You did not say "devine-like" so I'm taking you at your word. Thanks for the input...have a Blessed Day!
Cascade47 9 months ago 3
Why would you ask a Patriarch of the Eastern Orthodox church what the passage means? OBVIOUSLY he has an enormous stake in it saying 'God' rather than 'a God'. You need to find an independent/secular Greek scholar to explain it to you and my understanding is that it means 'divine' - as in the Logos is divine much like 'Wisdom' from 'The Wisdom of Solomon'. Please research the Greek Logos and Wisdom that John patterned this incarnation of Jesus after.
templarart 9 months ago
The Question, "The true meaning of John 1:1." His answer, "Logos is God."
Cascade47 10 months ago
And why did you go with the pretext of 'knowing more about his church and get to know him' when clearly you went to only ask one question--as you stated at the very beginning. Ugh.
Grayhatt 10 months ago
@Grayhatt I don't understand your first post at all. Secondly, we shot over an hour worth of video with many questions...but this is the one question and answer that we wanted to share. Please don't make sarcastic comments when you know not of what you speak.
Cascade47 10 months ago
@Cascade47 I know you shot more video than what was on here, I'm not dense, the editing is obvious. You however clearly introduced the video with an entirely different motive than what you told him. And who speaks like this: "you know not of what you speak"?
Grayhatt 10 months ago
@Cascade47 are there any more videos with questions like this? that you may have gotten him to answer, or maybe just the whole interview? would love to see it thanks
dking2ushawty21 4 months ago
I find it funny how you act in front of this man, and how you act with others, such as online, even here. It is very revealing indeed.
Grayhatt 10 months ago
Jesus is Divine not because the Bible says so. But because HE says so, His Body -the Church teaches so, and the saints testify to this reality. Stop bickering and start praying! ICXC NIKA
nojoso 11 months ago
@nojoso Jesus is divine because he came from God. In fact the angels can be considered divine as well. Divine doesn't = GOD. Divine means from God, of God, godlike, godly, etc.
Grayhatt 10 months ago
@Grayhatt yes, divine means from God, of God, godlike, etc. and Jesus is the Divine Son of God- God from God, light from light. The Angels can be considered divine but not in the same way as Jesus who shares in the very reality of God. Angels are created beings.
nojoso 7 months ago
@nojoso Believe what you want. To us there is only "ONE GOD, the Father." Because there has always only been 1 person, or LORD considered GOD. De. 6:4 We have never been taught by Christ that the God he worshiped consisted of 3 persons. Ga. 3:20.
Grayhatt 7 months ago
@Grayhatt Christ teaches that He and the Father are One (John 10:30 & John 17). There is One God, the Father- and His Son who was with Him from the beginning (John 1)and in whom dwells the fullness of divinity (Colossians 2:9) is of the same essence of the Father. Christ did not forbid the disciples from worshiping Him after His resurrection and He told of the Spirit of God whom He would send from the Father- there we have clear knowledge of the Triune nature of God.
Peace
nojoso 7 months ago
@nojoso One what? If you read the entire chapter you would understand he says the same about his disciples. Are we to believe they are included in that "One God" too? 'being one' is used in the Scriptures extensively, and none of the other examples mean what you are trying to make it mean in that text. Again none of that has shown that Christ taught us he was a 3 in 1 God. If anything he taught us that he too was a worshiper of God, his Father.
Grayhatt 7 months ago
@nojoso As I mentioned, believe what you wish, I am not seeking to change your mind at all, but to defend simply that what Christ taught was always simple to understand about his Father, not mysterious as many have often described this teaching.
Grayhatt 7 months ago
@Lad24LFC, and I have had many many Greeks, scholars as well as regular folks, tell me that the way it is in the KJB, is the correct translation...that it is the way the original apostles thought and believed. I've read the NWT, and it is false. Yes, JWs suffered persecution at the hands of the nazi pigs...and so did Jews, gypsies, and the mentally difficient...what's your point? The vast majority of scholarship is that the correct and only translation is not "a god." Thought, that is yours.
Cascade47 11 months ago 3
@Cascade47 Ok. Then answer for me just one question. Why, in YOUR bible was an "a" inserted in Acts 28:6 in relation to Paul . I welcome your answer?
Lad24LFC 11 months ago
Jehovah's Witnesses suffered much persecution and torture in the Nazi concentration camps and endured many trials with the possibility of death every single day, they had the easy option of release by denying their faith but chose to remain faithful to Jehovah. Even having there own colour of identity, a purple triangle. Meanwhile your religious leaders were blessing the warring troops on both sides. We beat our swords into plowshares and showed faith under extreme test. Would you do the same?
Lad24LFC 11 months ago
Please: all JWs, please do not try to justify your false belief. Only you believe the way you do. Its like the old Norwegian proverb of the mother looking at her son in the parade and states, "Look, only my son is marching in-step...everyone is is out of step."
Cascade47 11 months ago
@Cascade47 I am so glad you deleted my reasonable explanation of John 1:1. I am a Greek person and understand Greek fully and you have denied people from making their own minds up. This is victory to me.
Lad24LFC 11 months ago
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Lad24LFC 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
1.PLEASE GO TO WATCHTOWER ORG SITE
THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION FOR THE GREEK JW READS IN JOHN 1:1
Στην αρχή ήταν ο Λόγος, και ο Λόγος ήταν μαζί με τον Θεό, και ο Λόγος ήταν θεός
2.COPY THIS VERSE FROM THE WATCHTOWER ORG SITE. 3.GO TO TRANSLATE.GOOGLE.COM.4 PASTE IT THERE. 5 CHOOSE GREEK-TO-ENGLISH
AND THE TRANSLATION READS:
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.!!! A GREEK AUDIENCE CAN'T BE FOOLED-FOR THE NOW HOW GREEK GRAMMAR WORKS.
Ni1234ck 1 year ago
Please JW's...go spill your idiocy somewhere else...rather than polemics, use thoughtful debate. Y'shua Messiach Adonai HaOlam!
Cascade47 1 year ago 4
@jwm2806 What do you mean...he is Greek and the head of the Greek Church in Jerusalem?
Cascade47 1 year ago
@Cascade47 I know Greek to know he's a lier
jwm2806 1 year ago
@Cascade47 No. Orthodox Patriarchs are called in western world as Greek Orthodox Patriarch. But he is just Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem. Greek Patriarch is Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople. You have other Patriarchs as Serbian,Russian,Alexandria... They are not Greek,only Constantinople is Greek.
3SRBIJACCCC 1 year ago
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zakariaaadriaklim 1 year ago
@zakariaaadriaklim لا كافر ولكن المؤمن في إله واحد صحيح
Cascade47 1 year ago
i really was hoping he was going to do a translation of it.
not just say what he thinks it is saying.
1 John 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
CRJarvis 2 years ago
CR...He did translate it. He said, "Saint John is very clear...Logos is God!"
Cascade47 2 years ago
@Cascade47 no he did not do a translation of the text. just because Logos is the same word as "elohiym" translated as God many times.
the entire text was not translated.
CRJarvis 2 years ago
@CRJarvis ...your comment is nearly incoherent. Accordingly, and as clearly as it is possible to communicate with someone, I will tell you that the Patriarch did translate the relevant text right in the video. Rerun it if need be, but he said that St John said that the Logos is God. You may not like it, but that is what he said, and is in fact what the text itself says. Regarding your comment that the Logos is the same word as elohiym, please see my note above about being incoherent.
Itmattered 2 years ago
@CRJarvis he only looked at the one word he did not translate the full text.
that would be like me telling you Yes Elohiym is God.
where God is The Elohiym not all Elohiym are YHVH. (The GOD)
see the God of this world is a Elohiym but is not The LORD GOD.
CRJarvis 2 years ago
Dear Mr. @CRJarvis: Please keep posting so my comment about you being incoherent can be demonstrated repeatedly.
Itmattered 2 years ago 2
@Itmattered
Im sorry I am saying it as simply as I can for you.
Yet if you can not comprehend the complexities of my babble. Then the chance that you could grasp it even if someone deciphered it for you is nil.
CRJarvis 2 years ago
Why is this priest treated like a king he is waited upon like he's more special than Christ. Jesus never had this kind of treatment did he? This Greek Orthodox priest lives better than Christ Jesus himself did. In fact I notice that priests, depending where they live, live a rich wealthy lifestyle. Christ was the greatest man that ever lived and yet he was a simple man a carpenter. Why is it that these ones live such a contrasting lifestyle to Christ and yet claim to follow in his footsteps?
MrOnamision1 2 years ago
You are, of course, correct in your observations. We went, however, to get historical information about the truth of the Word. The Patriarch was indeed, a great source of knowledge, as well as being very gracious.
Cascade47 2 years ago
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Michaelcaba 2 years ago
We might paraphrase your own question by putting it this way: Why is this "king" or "clan leader" (Patriarch) waiting on these guests? A monk brings a tray of drinks, from which Theophilus takes two glasses. The first glass that Theophilus removes from the tray, he hands to Mike Caba, who is one of his guests in the entourage. But to answer your question more directly, I would identify the trappings and property as indicative of two functions that the Patriarch performs:1.spiritual, 2. temporal.
ioannismiami 2 years ago
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THEBEREANZ 2 years ago
@MrO
Go sell your BORING MAGS elswhere!
You're SO brainwashed and have NO IDEA what about what you're even saying. You are in a CULT!
`WAKE UP!
THEBEREANZ 2 years ago
@MrOnamision1 Your assertion is false. Christ is worshiped, this bishop is not. Respect is given to this bishop because he is a leader, a teacher, a theologian, an elder. He is NOT however treated as a king.
Your reference to priests and the like living like royalty is not true in the Orthodox Christian Church. Perhaps in the medieval Roman Catholic Church, yes.
Please research this further.
May God Bless you and send down His Holy Spirit upon you!
ignati123 1 year ago
@ignati123 correct my friend.
MTLBOBIRAS 1 year ago
@MrOnamision1 well Theofilos is a family friend of many years, and we all knew him way before he got his patriarch position.. I remember him as an extremely humble, kind, intelligent person.. extravagance just isnt something he was ever interested in.. if the ceremonies look fancy or the his surroundings, well thats not his doing.. and i dont think we can call it extravagance.. just wanted to make that point about him.. if anyone deserves position its him..
monopthalmoss 1 year ago
@monopthalmoss His position is like a "bridge". He is like a guide and will teach all those that have in Christ, he will try to guide you with the best of his Othodox faith in the right direction.
He is not there as king like the other Ilithio is stating.
MTLBOBIRAS 1 year ago
Where exactly did you see that in this Video, That he is treated like a king, why because the brought him and his guests juice to drink during the interview? If you have guest that come to your home or in workplace will you not offer any hospitality??? Is that your reasoning, What do you know abouth Greek orthodox priests, Do you have any clue what Christian Ortodox means? That man there is just a messenger and is more humble then you think,there are no theatrics , just undevoted love to Christ.
MTLBOBIRAS 1 year ago
@MrOnamision1 yeah you're right buddy. You've noticed it too?
DriftKid2239 1 year ago
I Believe you are adding words to Scripture. Jesus did not say "The Father is the true God", but that the Father was GREATER than he. To be greater does not mean to be better. The President is greater than me, but by no means better than me. We are both of the same essence or type of being. Jesus' claim of being the Son of God was equal to claim that he was equal to God. Read John 10:30 and following. There are more examples in Scripture showing his equality with God in essence.
edpanu1960 3 years ago
Please show the ESSENCE scriptures. What is the Greek word for essence that is present in them?
cnreason 2 years ago
No offense djbehemoth, but you are mistaken on several counts, most notably, John 1:1 is clearly not "poetry", and Jesus did not "always" deflect peoples' statements regarding his full Diety, in fact he often encouraged it. For instance, after Thomas "said to him, 'My Lord and my God' Jesus replied "Because you have seen me you have believed". The Gospel of John, from beginning to end, testifies to the Divine nature of Jesus.
Itmattered 3 years ago 6
The truly ironic thing about the Jehovahs Witnesses misuse of the Coptic language in their attempt to cast doubt on the Trinity is that the greatest Trinitarian champion of all time, Athanasius himself, was, believe it or not, a Coptic! In fact, he is even considered to be one of their Popes. Athanasius and his fellow Coptics obviously understood the nuances of their own language better than the modern abusers thereof, and preached the Trinity loud and clear.
Itmattered 3 years ago 4
Actually, the divine Triune nature of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit was understood very early after the Resurrection of Christ. In circa 175AD, Athenagoras wrote: Who then, would not be astonished to hear men called atheists who speak of God the Father, and of God the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and who declare both their power in union and their distinction in order?
Cascade47 3 years ago
Whizzy, please respect the veracity and honor of this site. Cultists are just regurgitating specious opinions for the sake of argumentnot for the sake of debate. I created this video to get the information on this subject from the closest modern source. You cant argue with the factsJesus is part of the Triune identity of our God. I close with Baruch HaShem Adonai!
Cascade47 3 years ago
Since the translation issue has been decided in favor of the Christian/Trinitarians, lets start a dialogue on another subject: The belief in the Trinity and the full deity of Christ before Nicea in 325 AD. I will post daily for a while. For instance, Ignatius, a disciple of the apostle John himself, wrote in 110 AD (only 10 years after the death of John) Continue in intimate union with Jesus Christ, our God. Hmmmm. I wonder where he learned to talk like that?
Itmattered 3 years ago
Vhlizzy - For sake of argument: grant the Coptic indefinite article, but note two points (1) They understood it differently than you are taking it. An indefinite article in Coptic is not exactly equivalent to an indefinite in English. Please remember, the Coptics are Trinitarian Christians-see below. (2) But once again, the New Testament was written in KOINE GREEK, not Coptic, and we understand KOINE well - see the Patriarch. No need to divert to Coptic, and, in any case, to misunderstand them.
GreekExpert 3 years ago 2
So it is translated "a god", thank you. Coptics today believe the trinity, but the christian church was pretty much divided before Nicea 325. The Sahidic could be as old as 188 CE and text tells us how early exegetes interpreted John 1:1, apart from the influence of later dogma and philosophical Trinitarianism. DO you know you know Greek better than the Coptics is what I asked. Now what did the indefinite article mean to them? Is god considered an entity or something abstract?
vhlizzy 3 years ago
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GreekExpert 3 years ago
You twisted my statement. The "a god" translation is exactly what I do not grant, as is evident from my post. In regard to a true understanding of John, see Itmattered above, who quotes the earliest and closest source known, his direct disciple Ignatius, who teaches unambiguously that Jesus was God.
GreekExpert 3 years ago 4
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GreekExpert 3 years ago
Quote from a Coptic Website: The Coptic Orthodox Church believes that the Holy Trinity: God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit, are equal to each other in one unity; and that the Lord Jesus Christ is the only Savior of the world. Less changes have taken place in the Coptic Church than in any other church whether in the ritual or doctrine aspects and that the succession of the Coptic Patriarchs, Bishops, priests and Deacons has been continuous.
Michaelcaba 3 years ago
You are avoiding the topic. I can't have it both ways? A bad argument? What is the argument? John 1:1 and yes being close in time to the language gives them a much better understanding to translate. Coptic also happens to be closer to and easier to translate into english. So stick to the topic and translate Coptic NEUNOUTE. Maybe you can teach me something, so far you're just hot air.
vhlizzy 3 years ago
Thank you for the admission of error. My friend, its clear you simply have no education in Coptic, Greek or church history, so Im not going to pound on you further. Suffice to say, the Coptics are Trinitarians, espousing the clear deity of Christ, and that the Trinity is not a doctrine of the 3rd & 4th century. Please consider that the cult leaders, who have you wrapped around the axle with this Coptic diversion, are really the ones whose history you should ponder.
GreekExpert 3 years ago
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vhlizzy 3 years ago
You can spare the mercy and enlighten me on what your educated opinion of Coptic John 1.1. Did they know Koine Greek better than you and thePatriarch? The Coptics may have believed the trinity is interesting since they translated neunoute without prejudices. Can you translate NEUNOUTE? Cult? Are you saying that no Coptic Scholar supports the translation a god. Consider the bias of those who translated the KJV. Tell me what source manuscript that contains the KJV verse 1 John 5:7?
vhlizzy 3 years ago
Vhlizzy - Your fundamental assumption, as I read you postings, is that the Coptics, being an ancient group, must have had more insight into John 1:1 than we do today, and thus we should listen to them. Although this is a bad argument, I will follow your train of thought and ask you if you believe, as the Coptics do, in the Trinity? You cant have it both ways my friend, rejecting and accepting just as it pleases you.
Michaelcaba 3 years ago
Sorry, you dont have your facts right. For instance, your quote: "Coptic was used and translated before Koine Greek " is, to put it nicely, just wrong. Koine Greek is not a translation of the New Testament, but the ORIGINAL LANGUAGE of the N.T. Therefore, an Egyptian Coptic translation could not be before it. If you want an exact word for word, in order, translation, here it is: IN BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH THE GOD, AND GOD WAS THE WORD. No question at all what it means.
GreekExpert 3 years ago 2
I stand corrected. But the Coptic alphabet is based on classical Greek which was before Koine. The Coptic translation of Koine Greek was done when Koine was stil used. The translators were much closer to understanding what the scriptures said than later translations and before the influence of the churches from the 4th and 5th century (and this video). The Sahidic text renders John 1:1c as "auw neunoute pe pshaje", clearly meaning literally and a god was the Word. ne =was un =a oute =god
vhlizzy 3 years ago
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GreekExpert 3 years ago
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GreekExpert 3 years ago
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GreekExpert 3 years ago
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GreekExpert 3 years ago
The Monotesseron by John S. Thompson contains the infamous "a". Mr. Thompson heard voices from the spirit world. He reports one such encounter as follows: I heard a voice very distinctly, saying,
- In all your writings, be careful to represent Jesus as only the instrument of God in all he does (Chretien, 1988:170).
GreekExpert 3 years ago 2
Very much the truth...keep up the good work!
ThresholdPro 3 years ago 5
Very interesting. I loved hearing the patriarch confirming the Truth.
robbiesowner
robbiesowner 3 years ago 6
The number of translations that do not show the article vastly overwhelms those that do. That is not relevant, though. What is relevant is what the original Greek text says. The Patriarch, a fluent Greek speaker, apparently believes that the text is saying that Christ = the Word = God.
AllWhiteTukee 3 years ago 14
@AllWhiteTukee
precisely my friend.
MTLBOBIRAS 1 year ago
aN ESTABLISHED RULE OF GREEK GRAMMAR
a DEFINITE PREDICATE NOMINATIVE HAS THE ARTICLE WHEN IT FOLLOWS THE VERB, IT DOES NOT HAVE THE ARTICLE WHEN IT PRECEDES THE VERB. THE PREDECATIVE NOMINATIVE "god" PRECEDES THE VERB "WAS". THE ORDER OF THE GREEK TEXT IS "GOD WAS THE WORD" tHAT ORDER EMPHASIZES cHRIST'S DEITY, AND EXPLAINS THE ABSENCE OF THE DEFINITE ARTICLE. AND BESIDES THERE IS NO DEFINITE ARTICLE "a"IN THE GREEK!
THOMASFFREEMAN 3 years ago 14
"En arhi in o logos ke o logos in pros ton theon ke theos in o logos." Thats the original transcript in Greek. It does not say anywhere a god it clearly says god "Ton Theon" GOD. In order to get an accurate understanding you must refer to the original writings, translations loss the meaning. In ancient Greek one word can have that much meaning you need 10 english words to translate it.
koutanikos 3 years ago 7
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If we read original greek text and its greek grama too it is clear that the correct translation should read as: "The Word was a god".
MSJELOBA 3 years ago
A New Translation by Johannes Greber includes the infamous "a". Mr. Greber was a Catholic priest who converted to spiritism. The following quote, taken from his New Testament, explains the means by which he produced his work: At times he was given the correct answers in large illuminated letters and words passing before his eyes. His wife, a medium of Gods Spiritworld was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from Gods messengers to Pastor Greber (Greber, 1937:4).
michaelcab 3 years ago 4
Uhhh, are you sure about that? Every person I've heard from who actually knows Greek will tell you that the text doesnt say "'a' God". Only the NWT decides to translate it differently, for their own purposes.
Minuteman351 3 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You said: "Only the NWT decides to translate it differently, for their own purposes."
Are you sure? :)
Do you want me to mention translations which render John1:1 as : "a god"?
Or you will find these translations by yourself?
I hope you will do proper research and will have impartial opinion.
MSJELOBA 3 years ago
Great job Greg!
Sorry I missed this historic moment, I was on a date with Lynne.
:)
Minuteman351 3 years ago 2
Pretty much settles the issue on the Word being God or a god. Obviously, the Word was God.
michaelcab 3 years ago 5