Appeal For Info-Mother Dylan Ellis

[facetha]

Bottom line is. Most guns used in crime are stolen.

[cronullafrankstonhan]

would it be fair to say toronto is safer than london. london banned guns. but it has scumbags from all over the globe there.

some claim 55% of london,uk murders are by foreigners particularly Albanian,Lithiunaian and a few others some involving blood feuds.

[cronullafrankstonhan]

the guy who killed the four mounted cops was a solo rapist not a gang banger and he managed to get a pistol and 2 semi auto rifles.

[cronullafrankstonhan]

typical worldwide negro behaviour.

in sydney a gang of negros stabbed a fijian to death for smokes. negros are over represented in these crimes. negros have an ingrained hate for whitey. they have mental problems from their war background in sudan.

[decadentunicorn]

Nonetheless, since that message was published by the media, the police now feel that someone with information might be waiting for a reward. It is not helpful for you to be implying some sort of class conflict here. Even though I think it is irrelevant, I feel I should add that Oliver had to struggle for everything he'd accomplished.

[decadentunicorn]

I can say that even if either Dylan or Oliver had a gun on him for protection, there would not have been time for either to use it. I also know that part of the reason they are offering a reward is because Dylan's American half-brother had mentioned the possibility of one shortly after the event. Both families felt, however, that a reward would send out the wrong message and attract people for the wrong reasons.

[trusleuthhound]

Im sorry to hear about the families who are distraught. I only wish the coverage these rich folks are getting is the same others would get. BANNING HANDGUNS DOES NOT SOLVE PROBLEMS!!! We must get to the root of the problem. People need morals and values. We need to be more civil with one another. We need social programs. We need families to stick together. People wake up. Media and all the other bs today is influencing our thoughts. Martial law is coming! Wake up!

[cinnamongirlny]

Can the "rich folks" thing will ya. They are getting the coverage because they are pushing for it by taking an active role in trying to find who took their children's lives. Their suffering is beyond comprehension of anyone who has not lost a child.

[trusleuthhound]

oh please. that is why their is a 50,000 reward offered by police. I wonder if it was someone who lived in the projects that would a reward would be given. Again I do sympathize for the family but have a hard time when i watch a reward offered when so many other families lost ones cases go cold without any compensation offered.  Dont pick and choose whose case you want to offer money for. I think the point i made in my previous comment went way over your head.

[decadentunicorn]

They are not saying that we don't need social programs. I know Susan Martin personally, and she has long been involved in politics precisely for those reasons. She is unable to be as active this year, because she is far too distraught. Banning handguns would help to reduce their numbers here in Canada -- most crimes are committed with stolen guns. Whether this event would have happened anyway, we cannot say.

[BlackJays]

Here's the problem with banning handguns in Canada: If handguns are banned today, there's still going to be handguns on the streets of T.O., and who knows how long it would take to get most of them off the streets. Also, criminals will simply use a knife if they can't access a gun; that's a huge problem in London, UK and it could happen here too.

[decadentunicorn]

Yes, I take your point about knives, but it's significantly easier to kill someone with a gun -- the history of warfare makes that point compellingly obvious. Further, even if we know it will be difficult to implement the law, that is not sufficient reason to relinquish the hope that it could make a difference.

[BlackJays]

True, but if handguns are banned in Canada soon, we can't act like this is the solution to youth gun violence, because it's not. It's a band-aid solution no matter how you look at it. The root of the problem lies within the neighbourhoods where the young criminals reside. I live very close to Malvern (often associated with gun violence, if not always) and every time I walk or drive through this area late at night, I think about the violent past, and I wonder how safe I am in that area.

[BlackJays]

We need to focus on changing mindsets, not changing laws and banning this and that, because that will get us nowhere. The youth need to be taught a lesson. Put them in an after-school program or send them to jail, it's usually one way or the other anyways.

[decadentunicorn]

The reality that banning handguns is not a catch-all solution does not translate to it getting us nowhere. Also, your blanket statements about "the youth" should be qualified. You shouldn't suggest that everyone in poor neighborhoods is inclined to follow a life of crime. Be more specific. More/better social programs are needed to provide the disadvantaged with opportunities to improve their circumstances.

[decadentunicorn]

Re-integration programs are needed for those who are criminally charged and serve time -- and youths should not be put in adult jails, both because they are vulnerable and because they are impressionable. Restorative justice programs have been found to be particularly successful.

[BlackJays]

I respect your opinion, but it seems to me that not enough has been done to stem the crime rate. Since 2005, when gun crime increased dramatically, the only positive difference is that a higher percentage of suspects are caught (about 70%). Last year the city almost set a record for the most murders, and even though there are less murders this year, most of them were committed with a gun, which is pretty pathetic for a city that's trying to ban handguns.

[BlackJays]

Speaking of pathetic, how about our mayor who tried to close shooting ranges in a desperate attempt to stem the gun crime? Or councillor Mammoliti suggesting that the army should patrol the streets because of the violence in his ward? We need politicians in this city who know how to handle the situation. It's not that I don't support a handgun ban, because I don't think it would be 100% effective, but it seems like there is no other solution, except for giving lengthy sentences to criminals.

[decadentunicorn]

By agreeing with one of the mayor's policies, I don't claim to support every proposal he's ever put forward, let alone those suggested by city councilors.

I don't know enough about sentence lengths in relation to rates of re-offense to comment on their efficacy. A policy of extending crime sentences, however, would not be mutually exclusive with a handgun ban. The debate over the duration of crime sentences is a separate issue.

[BlackJays]

We can talk about banning handguns in Canada, all day long, but there's a problem here - technically, handguns are already banned in Canada. I took some time to digest your response before I replied, and I'm glad I did, because I almost forgot that there is a "ban" in place. In Canada, it's illegal to carry a concealed weapon, meaning that a gun can't be used for self-defense, save for police and the military. If a gang is raided tomorrow, their guns will be confiscated.

[BlackJays]

The question is, what's the difference between the current method and the proposed method (banning handguns)? Essentially, nothing. If handguns are banned, the same steps will be taken to get the guns, and the criminals, off the streets. Would the border have tighter security? Probably not. Would police use a more aggressive approach to fight crime and get guns off the streets? Probably not. If neither of those happen, it would be no different than not having a ban. In my opinion, it won't work.

[decadentunicorn]

It is still legal for Canadians to keep registered handguns in their homes. The problem is that most crimes are committed with stolen guns. If we reduce the number of guns in our country with a ban, it may help to reduce gun violence. I think it is worth a try.

[BlackJays]

That's a big IF.

[decadentunicorn]

Presumably most law-abiding citizens would be willing to hand over their guns if a ban were implemented. That would mean there would be fewer guns available to steal. Obviously the police would have to take other measures as well to curb illegal trafficking in guns.

[BlackJays]

Law-abiding citizens shouldn't have to hand over anything, because they aren't the troublemakers. Sometimes their guns are stolen by criminals, but that's rare. They could unknowingly sell their guns to criminals, but I believe that's also rare. Police shouldn't have to wait until there's a ban before they take other measures and curb illegal trafficking, they should be doing that already.

[decadentunicorn]

I never said the police should wait for a ban before making efforts to curb illegal trafficking. I was merely conceding that a handgun ban would not eliminate the need for other regulatory measures. There are a number of statistics that demonstrate a correlation between the availability of guns and the rate of death by guns (homicide, accident, and suicide).

[decadentunicorn]

"Dr. Ted Miller, National Public Services Research Institute examined the link between gun ownership rates and firearms death within Canadian provinces, the United States, England/Wales and Australia and concluded that 92% of the variance in death rates was explained by access to firearms in those areas. He suggested that a 1% increase (or decrease) in the percentage of households with guns in Canada would be associated with a 5.8% increase (or decrease) in the Canadian gun death rate."

[decadentunicorn]

A 2006 Statistics Canada Report:

"Of the 45 recovered firearms where ownership could be determined, police reported that 26 were owned by the accused and 2 by the victim. The remaining 17 firearms were owned by someone other than the accused or victim, of which 10 were reported to have been stolen." Although this is a small pool to be extrapolating from, 10 out of 45 is 22%. That's hardly what I'd call rare.

[decadentunicorn]

Another important factor to consider is that every criminal starts somewhere, and his or her first crime may very well be a gun crime. It is not just people in organized crime who commit homicides either. Stats Can 2006 Report: "The large majority of homicide victims were killed by someone they knew. About one-third of victims were killed by an acquaintance, 17% by a spouse, 19% by a family member other than a spouse [...]."

[BlackJays]

In a nutshell, here's what I think: I'm not against banning handguns in Canada, but, like I mentioned before, there are many law-abiding citizens (with guns) in this country. Maybe it does take banning handguns to stop the violence, but who knows? Harper just earned a minorty gov. again, so perhaps we shouldn't expect a ban anytime soon. The gov. should do whatever it takes to curb violence in Toronto and the rest of Canada, just as long as it works, gradually. (Last comment.)

[decadentunicorn]

How is it pathetic for a city which is trying to ban handguns? Handguns have not been banned yet, so I would think that the prevalence of gun crimes would be a reason for rather than against a ban.

[cronullafrankstonhan]

263 million people have been killed by their governments in the 1900s no amount of street murders comes close to this figure. hawaii university. YOu also got those muslims planning terror attacks if they cant get bombs or guns they will just hire a truck and run people down. Ouch. A gun is more humane. people will still kill.

[decadentunicorn]

I'm not sure how Hawaii University relates to your *ahem* argument, but I'd wager that they'd be only too happy to go without the publicity.

[cronullafrankstonhan]

2 kids die in toronto. it is tragic but it is nothing compared to the numbers that die from corrupt governments who need to be held accountable.