MSNBC Open Mic Republican's Palin BS. Pick

[brunohusker]

thank god some republicans hate Sarah like i do, the GOP needs to get smarter people who can represent our position better, not a bunch of moosehunting idiots or farmers with pitchforks or just plain idiots. Honestly the GOP needs to get rid of all those stupid dittoheads and being anti intellectual

[dualisticbeinglol]

C slam this tight lil ass =]? H

[uncannyb]

Hey guys.... Whatever happened to the Republican personal responsibility creed? You are such hypocrites! Personal responsibility until it gets personal (Wall Street Style). Right to bear arms? Arm the homeless and see how many Republican NRA members will be for the second amendment.

Your pathetic!

[diamondprxncess]

shut the fuck up! like being controlled? :)

[kipptumor]

They will think they are doing God's work.

[ecwaufisxtreme]

Palin will be the trump card that hand it to McCain on a silver platter. Palin is GOD's CHOSEN ONE because GOD HERSELF see to it that a woman will become VP and later President long before an African American becomes president. Palin will fulfill GOD's word and will because GOD herself said so.

McCain will unfortunately croak and Palin will inevitably be THE 1st woman president. Even Hillary will not be able to win against Palin in 2012. GOD will see to it that it happens.

[Sunshine100]

You are a whacko.  Be sure not to miss your next shrink appointment.

[tantip524]

You're clearly nuts.

[CherryMcgee]

Now THATS free advice! LOL!

[deadonred]

How on earth did this get leaked?

[kerryddawg]

They tell the truth when they think no one is listening. BTW, I own a pit bull mix and I take offense at what Sarah Palin said. First off, you hillbilly, pit bulls are naturally beautiful and don't need the layers of makeup you have on just to be presentable! My pit bull mix is intelligent, beautiful,funny, great with people, caring, all the qualities you don't have. Sarah Palin, I have a pit bull mix. You, ma'am are no pit bull!

[n0l0ve0ne]

mahgellin3 and enjo9999: "the estate tax DOESN'T EVEN APPLY TO %99 of americans, only the paris hiltons of the country."

This applies to anyone who has a pulse. So when your grandmother croaks and leaves you 100$, you will lose 55$ to tax.

[enjo9999]

ah, my mistake then. but the way i understood it, the estate tax would only apply to people with estates in the millions of dollars.

[dleone55]

Also - one last thing - the idea that Republicans are opposed to Big Govt is a canard. US Govt spending and headcount rose higher in Repub administrations than Dem admims over the last 25 years. That include Reagan.

It may be a good slogan to run on, but it's contrary to reality.

[JohnR22926]

dleon: yes and no. Reps really are opposed to big govt, but people are addicted to many programs like a junkie. It would be political suicide to cut them.

Same with abortion. Many Reps really are pro-life, but there just isn't a desire in the electorate to get a constitutional ammendment through. And they would alienate moderates if they tried.

So they do care, but much of their talk is pandering because they won't act. However, they WILL cut taxes, and WILL reduce govt on the margins.

[tompytom1]

John I just want to reply again to you so I can have 1/20th the responses you have on this thread. That's what I was alluding to ealier about you not having a life. Man you are busy. Do you reply to other threads this much? You must be a tornado in the sack man! Your wife has to be happy with you. When was the last time you saw her?

[dleone55]

JohnR - The problem about obsessing over tax rates is that it's like obsessing over your carburator when it comes to how well your car runs. it's only one part.

Borrowing $9 Trillion from Asia and the Middle East (yes..them) over the last 8 years just so we could avoid "raising taxes" is totally phony. Of course we raised taxes - we just put the bill on a credit card to pay another day.

Do you seriously think this is a prudent and growth oriented policy? Or is it politics?

[JohnR22926]

dleon: Yes, I agree. Keeping taxes low is irrelevant unless you also keep govt spending down and keep deficits manageable.

But, the real culprit here is the cost of the unnecessary Iraq war. From 1972 (end of vietnam war) to 2003 our deficits ran about 4% of GDP. Given our robust GDP growth we easily absorbed this debt. Since 2003 the deficits have been 6% of GDP (2% attributable to the war). So...the deficits aren't really that high as a % of GDP, but we're dead w/o high GDP growth.

[slobone]

Gotta love it! I always did have kind of a thing for Peggy Noonan...

[dleone55]

JohnR - I think that was true for Dems from 1970 thru early 90's, but began to change. For Rebubs, Contract with America was the start of the "purge of the moderates" - and only slowed in 2006. Dem's economic policy much more evolved since R Rubin and others influence in 1990's (would have been Republicanism in 1960/70's). other examples abound. the foreward-thinkers re: global economy are wearing a "D" in 2008 still. Repubs need serious mental heft. (Phil Gramm doesn't count)

[dleone55]

The problem with the Repub party is that they've chased people LIKE Lugar, Hagel, Danforth, and many others OUT of the party. They've bled themselves of real thinkers, in favor of party idealogues. They've hitched their wagon to catchy slogans like "smaller govt" and "lower taxes" when in reality they've done neither. (who do you think is paying back the $9Trillion they borrow the last eight years? is that not a tax??)

they could use some more Hagels. the gene pool is getting thin...

[JohnR22926]

dleon; that's funny. That's one of my primary charges against the Dems. That they've moved radically Left since 1960 and chased the conservative/moderate Dems out of the party. If FDR, LBJ, and HST were alive today they would be moderate Reps.

The fact is, both parties have shifted toward their base, thus the increase in partisan rancor.

[tompytom1]

John, Hunter S. Thompson was Freak Ticket all the way baby, and he wouldn't have spit on McCain or Obama if they begged him too. He is a God. Don't invoke him with your argument. It is an insult to his spirit.

[dleone55]

Does Sarah Palin remind anyone of Peggy Hill from King of the Hill?

[cremington10]

truth hurts....im voting for the colored guy

[Serafinos]

Noonan hasn't been a Repub in YEARS! She's too into herself and one of the "elite" crowd. He has NO CLUE either!

Glad their TRUE COLORS are SPEWING THROUG! roflmao

[laleeloolelo]

"Noonan hasn't been a Repub in YEARS!"

Really Sera?

When did she change her affiliation?

As for someone who is ACTUALLY NO LONGER A REPUBLICAN, how about SUSAN EISENHOWER (Yes that Eisenhower).

[Serafinos]

Oh, please! She's just like Luger & Hagel are libs in Repub clothing. Noonan is on the fence and shame on her not giving Palin a chance. IMHO

That speech knocked Noonan OUT of top speech writer category... and I couldn't be happier.

Eisenhower -- WHO? Big whoopy - just because Granddad was wise, doth not a wise Grandchild make - eh? ;)

BTW - nothing personal. Last I read we live in a freedom of speech country. Let's get along -- enjoy your opinion & I'll enjoy mine! DEAL?

[laleeloolelo]

Really? Lugar and Hagel are libs?

Sorry Sera, but those aren't opinions anymore.

If you think Lugar, Hagel, Noonan to be not much of conservatives then that's an opinion.

But to call them as something that they're not just because they dissed republicans say more about you than it is about them.

After all you are only entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

And the fact is THEY ARE REPUBLICAN whether you like it or not.

[Serafinos]

Please relax! I'm not saying she's totally liberal-- but Luger/Hagel need to change their letter to D. They fought to remove "conservatism" from Repubs for a long time. Far as Noonan, she has made many statements that do have a push more left than right, including her "advise/imput" for different speeches that conservatives give. What iced the cake for me was her lapping up the fodder of Obama's speeches. Go back & listen to C-Span & MSNBC spots on her -- then tell me she isn't. Again, PEACE!

[reverbedvonacular]

1:08 best quote "the greatest of McCain is no cynicism, and this is cynical"

well, that pretty much sums it up there.

[JohnR22926]

rever: I don't think "cynical" is the right word. I agree the Palin pick is tactical; a political pick. But most decisions made by most candidates are political...to win elections.

She's not qualified today to be Pres because of lack of foreign policy/national experience. But lets be honest; Obama is not very much more qualified than she is. And he's at the top of the ticket...at least Palin is at the bottom.

[laleeloolelo]

Uh John even though Biden has more foreign policy experience than Obama, Obama has MORE foreign policy experience than Palin.

He has worked on non nuclear proliferation treaty with Lugar.

He was part of senate foreign relations committee.

He has met with world leaders.

Now your turn to be honest.

What experience does Palin have that can match Obama's foreign policy experience?

BTW her "command" of ANG doesn't count because a governor doesn't have authority over NG deployments.

[JohnR22926]

lalee: Yes, I'll admit BO has more foreign policy experience than Palin. But, BO doesn't have very much of it. Remember, he's only been in the US Senate 3 yrs and spent 2 of them doing nothing but running for Pres. He didn't even convene his committee once. Not once!

And BO will be Pres! Palin will only be VP; a do-nothing job unless MC dies. How can you justify having utter inexperience in the Pres, and then say lack of experience is unacceptable for a VP?

[laleeloolelo]

"How can you justify having utter inexperience in the Pres, and then say lack of experience is unacceptable for a VP?"

Who said that?

I think what i meant to say is Obama pick of more foreign policy experienced Biden speaks well of his judgment.

Not so for McCain and his pick of Palin.

[tompytom1]

John, sorry, but Biden was not political. I was hoping Obama would pick him months ago because it would prove the opposite. Obama is fresh to many things Washingtonian, and picking Biden proved he didn't care about opinion or flash for the ticket. He picked someone who could be a better President then him. Complete opposite of McCain. I'm an idependent and think both parties could go fuck themselves. Try to view this from that perspective and you'll see Obama made the better choice. Think Man!!!

[JohnR22926]

tompytom1: well, it's been several weeks since we exchanged posts on the VP picks, and I'll have to admit I'm embarassed by the Palin's interviews with Gibson/Couric.

I knew the MC pick was a primarily political...he HAD to have a female to have any chance at winning. But I thought (especially after Palin's superb convention speech) that she'd at least hold her own with the media. I wasn't expecting Churchill or anything, just basic competence. Her responses were borderline gibberish.

[jon609]

if they dump her, they loose...

if they keep her, they loose

[cmpm439]

this was probably the conversation all across the nation. then she spoke and a star was born, she is definitely ready for primetime.

[tompytom1]

How can this only have 950 views? It's great! I don't know why the media haven't jumped on Palin and Mcain more. He is suppose to be this maverick that thinks for himself. He wanted Lieberman! That's a fact, but the evangelical fruitcakes said "no way" and forced him to pick a social conservitive. So he picks one that is a girl to try and snipe Hillary votes. That is pretty cynical. Noonan is right. The Republicans are through. Sorry, I wanted to see a them win so Ventura can win it in 2012.

[JohnR22926]

tomp: are you nuts? You wonder why the media hasn't jumped on Palin more??!! They've done 24/7 backflips trying to portray her as:

-a bad mother.

-a beauty queen.

-mayor of a village.

-grossly inexperienced.

-mother of a whore.

-corrupt (firing the cop).

The ONLY thing they haven't jumped on her about is for failing to recycle plastic bags.

And your comment about Ventura tells me all I need to know about you. Palin is unqualified, but Ventura for Pres! Idiot.

[tompytom1]

Wow John! You really have no life. Are you a member of the Palin family? If you aren't, you must be a member of the evangelical right. Well I hope Sarah Palin can become President so she can discriminate against gays, take away women's reproduction rights, and do everything in the name of Jesus. Really? That's what you want?

I also want to defend Jesse Ventura. I am not some loonie, like YOU(Just look at all your comments on this page), I've found that Jesse speaks common sense. I'm sorry 4 U

[JohnR22926]

tomp: Lets see. You disagree with me politically so that means "I have no life". That's really logical.

And the last thing I am is an evangelical. I'm a fiscal conservative and social moderate. I disagree with most of Palin's positions on social issues, but...the issues that drive me at the polls are taxes/big govt.

And I like Jesse. A really nice guy who did a surprisingly good job as Governor. But he lost a LOT of my respect when he backed the 911 Truthers. Sorry...

[tompytom1]

John thanks for letting me know you aren't some brainwashed dogmatic sheep voter who follows the evangelical freaks. I agree we shouldn't be given hundreds of billions of dollars away in foriegn aid and other bullshit wellfare for the world, but the Rep's are assholes. I'm not voting for Obama. I'm from Wash. St. and my vote won't count, but the Republican ticket is evil because it has obviously been hijacked by the loco religious zealots who can't wait to suck Jesus's dick in heaven yesterday.

[JohnR22926]

tom: I can agree the christian fundamentalists have too much power in the Rep party and have blurred the line between separation of church/state. But that's precisely why I like MC. The evangelicals hate and distrust him, and for good reason. He's repeatedly denigrated people like Falwell, etc. IMO MC has been pandering to them recently...as he unfortunately must during an election.

BTW, you're right about my posts. I do about 20 a day. I'm retired, and its fun. :-)

[Hosoi7]

Anti-Republican media behind the senses (in the tank for obama media)SHAMEFUL

[salperd]

Sorry, Hosoi7, the anti-Republican media you refer to in this video are two prominent REPUBLICANS -- Mike Murphy and Peggy Noonan. The blad of Truth hurts when it's turned in you by your OWN PEOPLE. Sorry.

[JohnR22926]

sal: Again, it's the Dem hypocrisy that I can't stomach.

Obama's central tenet was "change". And he picks the ultimate washington insider in Biden. He picked him to offset his lack of foreign policy experience, and also to get blue collar catholic votes. Any charges of cynicism from the Dems? Noooooo!

Noonan was correct that Palin was a tactical (cynical) choice, but MC had to do it...if he actually wants to win the election.

[Chadhead]

Yeah. And now its CHECKMATE for Obama. Republicans have never been very good at being proactive

[chappy48]

You want to talk about hypocrisy. How about Governor Palin wanting us to respect her daughters and their family's choice to keep the baby while at the same time advocating a policy that would take that right of choice away from everybody else.

[JohnR22926]

chappy: lol. I think you're a bit confused. It would be hypocritical if Palin supported her daughter aborting the fetus...and then took a pro-life political position. Telling people to do one thing and then doing the opposite yourself; that's hypocrisy.

Palin is pro-life, but is supporting her daughter's bringing the fetus to term...not aborting it. No hypocrisy there at all.

[chappy48]

In their press release on the matter they said, "We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby..." Decision is another word for choice. They let her have that choice and they want us to respect that, which I do. What I don't respect is her advocating a policy that would take that choice away from you, me and everybody else. That IS hypocrisy.

[JohnR22926]

chappy: I agree with the quote but not your interpretation of it. You seem to think it means Palin told her daughter..."honey, you go right ahead with an abortion if that's what you want, or have the baby; it's your choice". I don't think for 1 minute this happened.

Bristol is 17 which means she has a legal right to choose an abortion if she wants. Nothing Palin could do to stop her. So, the quote means they're glad Bristol is having the baby.

My original point; Palin is not a hypocrite.

[MrMojoRisinII]

Governor Palin that advocates a policy of teaching only abstenence which is really half ass**. Its saying "don't have sex..but if you do all these terrible things will happen to you like getting pregnant or getting AIDS.." That's awful.

Know one wants their kids having sex as teens, but no one also wants their kids getting pregnant or for worse getting AIDS.

We need to teach kids responsibility, and the Republicans won't do that

[laleeloolelo]

"Obama's central tenet was "change". And he picks the ultimate washington insider in Biden. He picked him to offset his lack of foreign policy experience, and also to get blue collar catholic votes."

You may think it's cynical but i think it's smart of Obama to complement his administration with someone who has more foreign policy experience.

Can you tell me how Palin can complement McCain?

[JohnR22926]

lalee: Actually, I don't think either the Biden or Palin picks were cynical. I think they were both tactical choices designed to help BO/MC win the election. And you know what? This is exactly the way the VP selection has always worked.

And if BO wanted to have a co-presidency, he would have picked Hillary. Biden will do as most VPs do....nothing. Attend a few funerals, etc. Same as Palin if MC wins.

[wanabepunk]

johnr - unless McCain has a heart attack... In which case we're left with a moose-hunting, former beauty pageant, religious freak numbnuts in charge of the most powerful country in the world. Good choice republicans...

[JohnR22926]

wana: Well, lets hope BO DOES have a heart attack. That way we'll have the legitimately experience (albeit very liberal) Biden as Pres. Instead of a grossly inexperienced and (IMO) rather naive fellow who is further Left than any candidate since McGovern.

BTW, don't worry about the religious nut stuff. IMO that's pandering to the Rep religious base. Look at Bush; the closest we've had to a christian fundamentalist, and what has he done on religious issues? Nothing!

[tantip524]

Obama during the debate held his own and what I saw from the polls after the debate Obama won. Palin's interview with Couric showed this woman is clearly not ready to be VP and I think after the Vp debate Obama's lead will get even bigger and McCain will come up with another gimmick.

[JohnR22926]

tantip: regrettably, I have to agree with you. I think MC won a slight tactical victory in the debate (moderately better on foreign policy than Obama, slightly worse on the economy)...but it was a strategic win for BO because he's leading and only had to convince voters he's not a radical/risky choice.

You can see by my posts here that I'm a big supporter of the Palin pick, but her Gibson/Couric interviews were utter disasters. Worst I've seen, mayber ever. Makes Bush look like Churchill.

[MrMojoRisinII]

Change? John, your party ran the Congress from 94-2006, and you've had the White House for the past 8 years. Change isn't switching from one republican to another, its bringing in a new party the Democrats to once again clean up after the GOP frat boys and girls...

[JohnR22926]

mrmojo: I'll admit the Dems will bring more change than a MC administration would.

My contention is that BO will bring the wrong kind of change that will hurt the country. Here are my gripes:

-liberal activist judges.

-higher taxes

-big expansion of fedl govt

I'm convinced this will hurt the economy and raise unemployment and inflation.

And I DO think MC will bring some change, primarily cutting govt spending. He/Bush are both Reps so they agree on some things, but differ on many.

[laleeloolelo]

"He/Bush are both Reps so they agree on some things, but differ on many."

Really John?

On what does he differ with Bush?

On torture? On Iraq? On offshore drilling?

On what?

[JohnR22926]

lalee: Here are areas of disagreement:

-going into Iraq with so few troops.

-tacticts in post-war Iraq; there would have been no surge without MC's pressure.

-voted against the Bush tax cuts.

-adamantly opposed to waterboarding and all forms of torture. Wants to close Gitmo.

-accepts Global Warming as a danger and will take action on it.

-and, most importantly, MC has fought Bush from the start on rampant govt spending.

[laleeloolelo]

"-adamantly opposed to waterboarding and all forms of torture."

Really?

Washington Post 2008-02-16:

Vote Against Waterboarding Bill Called Consistent By Eggen, Dan

"Republican presidential front-runner John McCain bluntly called waterboarding "torture and illegal" - But later the same day, McCain cast a vote against Democratic-sponsored legislation supported by anti-torture advocates that sought to ban waterboarding and other coercive tactics by the CIA."

[JohnR22926]

lalee: I stand behind my post. MC has spoken repeatedly and forcefully on the issue. I'll admit he has been silent on the issue lately for purposes of keeping his base happy but am convinced he'll act on the issue if elected. If he's not elected, expect him to spearhead the issue from the Senate.

Sometimes pols have to temporarily back off on an issue to satisfy the base during an election. You know, like BO did during the primaries on the war in Iraq...

[cmdrgmh]

Yes, Obama will bring good change for people making less than 250,000 a year. Yes he will raise taxes on people making over 250,000 a year. Obama will also help or provide health care for low income family's. These are the facts. Some people don't want people making 250,000 or more taxed, but since I don't and have never seen 250,000 a year. Oh Well. I feel tax the hell out of the rich. They have gottin a free ride for 8 years. Rides Over.

[JohnR22926]

cmdr: Thanks for being so honest. You're not voting for BO for the good of the nation or to help other people...you're voting for him because he'll use govt power to take money from "rich" people and give it to you. And clowns like you have the GALL to call others "greedy"?

Count on one thing though bozo. Once BO gets done with his tax hikes I PROMISE you will have less money in your pocket. Unless you're on welfare or an orphan, you're taxes are going UP...just like the so called "rich".

[enjo9999]

you obviously haven't seen the candidates tax plans. enjoy your scare tactics

[JohnR22926]

enjo: Here's Obama's:

Federal Income tax from 35% to 39.6%

Payroll tax from 37.4% to 52.2%

Captial gains from 15% to 28%

Dividends from 15% to 39.6%

Estate taxes from zero to 55%

We've already got the highest corporate tax rate in the world. Even europe is lowering these taxes to incentivize GDP growth, and it's working. Ireland is a perfect example; the lowest rate in europe and sustained GDP growth of 5%.

You clowns just don't "get it". High taxes and big govt hurt job growth.

[mahgellin3]

yes, overall, he wants higher taxes. but your numbers mean very little when you compress them like that into averages. i really don't know why you would do that when the subject was the middle class. the estate tax DOESN'T EVEN APPLY TO %99 of americans, only the paris hiltons of the country.

[enjo9999]

mahgellin already hit my first point but i'll elaborate a bit. you need to get the perspective from each strata of society, not in terms of averages. for example, what economic growth we HAVE seen these past eight years has been concentrated to the highest strata, the richest %1. meanwhile, jobs have NOT been created in America, but shipped over seas, and what we see here is higher unemployment and lower wages. the bush tax cuts HAVE NOT been working for most americans.

[enjo9999]

that said, while you may think that high taxes and big gov't hurt job growth, its not like McCain's proposed policies will work at all. how do we know? because they are basically extentions of the Bush policy which haven't been working for the past eight years!

reaganomics doesnt work. the jobs created now are predominantly overseas, not in america, and what we see in america is higher unemployment and lower wages. Bush tax cuts HAVENT been working.

[enjo9999]

so if you want to talk about handouts, its the corporations which haven't been doing their fair share to help americans that are REALLY getting the hand outs. they ship jobs overseas, cut wages, and place ceo bonuses above workers pensions, yet get huge tax breaks. working americans aren't looking for HANDOUTS they are looking for FAIRNESS.

and if you want to bring up ireland, i can just as easily bring up sweden. what works in one country wont necessarily work in another.

[JohnR22926]

enjo: How can you buy this lame propaganda from the Dems? Bush's tax cuts were implemented at the end of '01. From about '03 to '07 we had fantastic economic performance. GDP growth was decent, unemployment was at all time lows(since we started tracking the stat), the market was sky-high, etc. Of course the Dems whined constantly about the income disparity between rich/poor; the only thing they could find about the economy that was remotely negative.

In '07 a normal cyclical downturn started.

[ViceFamily]

so when the democrats are in office the economy is on a republican high and then when the republicans are in office the economy is on a natural downturn from the republicans previous actions.

i had no idea the economy was unresponsive to democrats in that way. thanks for the insite...

[JohnR22926]

vice: I assume you're talking about Bill's excellent economic record. Here's what happened:

-Extraordinary productivity increases caused by the info tech boom. GDP way up

-The peace dividend. Downsized the military by 1/3 cutting about $100B/yr.

-Bill had a big initial tax hike, but then cut taxes later. Capital gains rate went down from 28% to 20% under Bill.

Greenspan said Clinton was "the best Republican president we've ever had". Bill's economly was unique; BO will not duplicate it.

[enjo9999]

the bush tax cuts, in my opinion, haven't been very effective. i will agree with you that the dems overstate the performance of our economy. but raw numbers in GDP growth don't necessarily indicate the well-being of the country as a whole, but only the corporations. at this point, i really do think that too many jobs are being taken over seas because corporations are given too much mobility.

[JohnR22926]

mahg: I'm retired military and don't get a dime from Bush's tax cuts, but support them because IMO they grow the economy. What do you think the "rich" do with their money? Buy gold plated toilets? They invest it and create jobs. When you take money away from the people that create jobs and wealth, and give it to the govt, I'm absolutely convinced that most of it gets wasted.

Bush's budget deficits are running at 6% of GDP (2% due to the war). You watch Obama's deficits; they'll remain 4%

[ViceFamily]

Bush leaves office with biggest deficit in history. Clinton with biggest surplus. Bush II again with biggest deficit. Maybe you should stop blindly cheering for your team and actually look at the facts.

Trickle down doesn't work, it's what's causing the current economic conundrum, this left over Regan era relic of unchecked corproate policy (enron, savings n loan, etc...) is bs, we need regulation and accountability.

[JohnR22926]

vice: Look at my initial response to you about Bill's economy. Unless BO has another info tech boom in his hip pocket, or another radical downsizing of some portion of the govt, his tax hikes will be ruinous.

I'm all for prudent regulation and accountability. And the ONLY key is GDP growth which keeps unemployment/inflaton low. The income disparity gap is a bullshit issue. As long as basics are provided to those at the bottom who cares how rich those at the top are? Only the jealous care!

[enjo9999]

i salute you for your service to the country, but i really have to disagree with you. the big corporations definitely DO have the capability to invest and create jobs, but i dont think they are doing enough. they are given too much mobility and freedom for their own self-interests, going where the market takes them with little regard for those at the bottom of the food chain in america. and why would they, when they can go to china or elsewhere for labor for cents on the dollar?

[JohnR22926]

enjo: So you advocate a shift from free trade toward protectionism? The EU is moving in precisely the opposite direction, and it's working; their GDP growth rates are significantly better than ours.

And what about the hundreds of millions of people in developing nations who now earn very good incomes through free trade? If we shift back to protectionism they get hurt. Bad.

The americans hurt economically are the marginally educated (former union workers). That's where to put our emphasis.

[salperd]

The problem with ideology is, you can't see reality. Calling Obama a hypocrite and giving BOTH McCain and Palin a pass is pure ideology; it fits your theme, not the facts. Being against tax cuts for the wealthy, then for them... against torture, then not-so-much... for immigration reform, then not-so-much... FOR the Bridge to Nowhere, then against -- if it's not hypocrisy, it's a lack of principle. Candidates desperate to have it both ways can't call out others for hypocrisy. They're deep in it

[JohnR22926]

salperd: I'm not giving MC/PA a pass at all, and both parties are equals in hypocrisy. And the LAST thing I am is an ideologue; I'm a pragmatic Centrist wary of rigid uncompromising ideology. Ideology prevents compromise and never works as well as promised.

My positions on taxes and smaller govt are driven by experience. This is my 9th Pres election and I've heard ALL of it before. There's a reason most americans believe the Reps handle the economy better (or at least they did prior to Bush).

[salperd]

JohnR - at least we share that. Ideology gets in the way of seeing clearly and acting wisely. I think, however, it's mixed results for the taxes issues. Obama is talking about returning tax levels close to those under Clinton, when annual GDP was higher, and federal spending as % of GDP was lower. And giving ALL earners under 200k a tax cut. What's to dislike?

[JohnR22926]

sal: If I thought BO could duplicate Clinton's economy I'd vote for him. Here's why I think he can't:

-Bill had a huge tax hike early, but cuts later (e.g. CG tax dropped from 28% to 20%).

-Bill held social spending constant; just annual increases for inflation.

-Bill benefited from unprecedented productivity increases (and GDP growth) associated with the info tech boom.

-Bill had the Peace Dividend and downsized the military by 1/3.

BO's will raise taxes and dramatically increase govt.

[salperd]

If one Democrat did it, where is it written that another won't? And a Peace dividend isn't going to come to McCain if we're still in Iraq, threatening Iran and stationing troops in Georgia. And, again, BO is STARTING with tax cuts for most Americans. It may not be trickle down, but that doesn't seem to have done much the last 8 years.

[JohnR22926]

cmdr: since you're not educated, get down to the college and take Economics 101. Who the fuck do you think creates jobs? The cleaning lady? The paperboy? Rich people are rich because they risked their savings and started successful businesses.

So when BO ruins the economy and unemployment skyrockets you'll know who to blame when you get laid off. But you don't care do you? Because you're perfectly happy on the unemployment line getting welfare.

All you're after is a handout. A free ride.

[tantip524]

Higher taxes for who, the rich? well I could live with that. When Obama and McCain had their debate McCain never said the words "Middle Class" one time and that showed me just how much he cares about the middle class.

[JohnR22926]

tant: Higher taxes for "the rich"? Sure. There's a fat guy out there wearing a top hat and spats with his pockets filled with OUR gold. Obama will set things a-right.

Take Economics 101 and understand raising taxes (and spending the money on social programs) impacts GDP growth and raises unemplyment/inflation. So go head and vote for the guy who promised to put an extra $200 in your wallet. Who is greedy now?

BTW, MC said "main street" repeatedly. Same as middle class (Duh!).

[Hosoi7]

Anti-Republican media behind the senses (in the tank for obama media)shameful

[Fair9]

It's Over

Palin's speech was like listening to Ann Coulture.Small and petty I am a Community Organizer and I was very offended.

[harbeim]

The GOP took the surplus which was Clinton's legacy and drove it into catastrophic deficits. The GOP has squandered America's reputation in the world. Republicans have eroded the middle class and American jobs, subsidizing the outsourcing of jobs. Republicans want to legislate our sexuality. Republicans have lavished big business with record corporate welfare. Palin's ultra-partisan speech will do nothing to draw in independents. Phooey on having a former runner-up for Miss Alaska sneer at me.

[harbeim]

Palin's speech was angry, dismissive, hostile, snarky, and content-free. Her attack on Democrats for wanting to raise taxes exhibits extreme hypocrisy after the Republican looting of America's treasury and financial future for the past 7 years. We must pay the darn bills rather than mortgage our grandchildren's future.

[beefnliver]

Fuck you, Peggy Noonan. Ur career has been built around one line from one speech. Ur career is bullshit.

[chuckwise28]

msnbcwn is the bullshit pic, form SMALL O

[b24warbaby]

"political bullshit"  Peggy noonan

hit ot right on the head !

[rgeorge9260]

I'm a conservative Republican. So, McCain is NOT my ideal candidate. Now he goes for an unknown woman, and while she may be a governor, she is NOT the best qualified candidate out there for VP. If something happens to Obama as President, Biden has experience. If something happens to McCain in office, we fall back on Palin? Jeez. I agree: McCain went for a gimmick. What a moron. She had better be one hell of a speaker and debator, or she's going to get her head handed to her by Biden in debate.

[ele12957]

Some how I think after tonight you will eat those words Palin has shown herself ready prepared and not going to take BS. A brillant pick by McCain.

[marvisinsane]

She can read a speech prepared for her. Good for her, at least we know she's not illiterate.

Seriously, that's what you are judging her on?

[ele12957]

I have family in Alaska I have known about Sarah for a while she is just what DC needs. 80% aproval rating and the changes she has made proves this women is no light weight.

[hitdoggie]

Spatz...your nuts. I know blaming the media is McCain's only strategy for the remaining 2.5 months of this campaign, but using this is to support your argument is ridiculous. So 2 people how make buckets of money talking for the republican party put their jobs and credibility in peril to support this mass media conspiracy?

That must be what Rush said today?

[scottslibby]

Awsome!!!!!!The truth comes out. This is how most Republicans feel but are too scared to say it. This VP pick is a joke. The first words out of her mouth after being picked are from Hilary's speech. Does she think women are stupid. The women who voted for Hilary did so because she is a strong leader and had 40 years of experience. Good luck!! Hilary supporters are Democrats and will be voting for OBAMA!!!!!

OBAMA 08'

[softapink]

Bristol Palin is a repersentation of her mother vise versa. Ray Charles from the ground can see this family has issues.

[rsdfl1]

Even my pit bull is voting for Obama!!!

[bon1042]

rsdfl1,  that's priceless! Does he/she ever wear lipstick.

[TheFaxReport]

This is priceless... This is what every Republican is thinking but won't say!

[sptaznut]

Do u think these morons didn't know their mics were still on....plz the media knows exactly what their doing

[RonPaulGeorgeRingo]

"Country First"

The "Country First" Republicans put their party BEFORE their COUNTRY in 2004. Every American certainly knew by 2004 that Bush was in WAY over his head and was NOT qualified to lead and govern our country.

Hypocrites!

[48evergreen48]

PEGGY NOONAN HAS ALWAYS BEEN A DEMOCRAT BEHIND THE REPUBLICAN PIN. she is a democrat mouth piece fronting herself as a republican.

She just showed her stripes and will be likely shunned by the republicans who want a real reporter...

Noonan go home to your democrats you ratted yourself out....

[hitdoggie]

This is an open memo to MSNBC: Pay me 1/4 what you pay any of these three and I will give you real and honest insight.

Sometimes I really do feel like I am in an Orwell novel. the media really does control the message.

[softapink]

Lol. This Palin chick is too cute everytime I put my fingers on the keyboard their is more drama.

[socomcorky]

228

[necrosisborgs]

I just LOVE the open mic! Just more proof that the Republicans just don't get it. 8 years ago, they torpedoed McCain because he doesn't play ball and this year he was left for dead before they had no choice but to support him or stay home. NOW they get this political neophyte dropped on 'em and they're about to gag! They can't stand him, but they can't stand the idea of being out of power more! I loved McCain 8 years ago, but that was EIGHT years ago. Face it, he's screwed the pooch on this one.

[DocthaRoc]

I love how Chuck Todd says "Thanks guys"!... MSNBC is so transparent. It's become the liberal FOX news

[uhfofie]

all i have to say is that if i was a hilary supporter i would be seriously offended by mccain's choice. does he really think that the americans that supported hilary are dumb enough to vote for him and palin just because she is a woman? she goes against everything that hilary has worked for her entire life.

[pitbull103]

Peggy Noonan is spot-on correct. She is one of THE most respected republican columnists and she is saying what most republicans truly feel in their hearts. This was a cynical, affirmative-actionesque pick designed to appeal to focus groups. Nice lady. Bad choice. Unfortunately, it IS over. This was the big blunder the dems were waiting for and McCain sadly gave it to them on a silver platter. Incidentally, the democrats also care nothing about America. Politics is bullshit.

[catwhit3]

I have never ever cared for her elitist banter but give her credit on this. What has she said ON CAMERA on this subject? HOpefully she is right...its over!

[OLDMANYELLSATCLOUDS]

Oh, this is great - Palin is just so much bullshit! REPUBLICANS: PRIDE IN IGNORANCE

[Boobalopbop]

Lol... I knew I liked Peggy Noonan. NICE!

[HisFellatiousness]

LOL, Palin is the gift that keeps on giving. This just shows how the repubes will lie in front of the camera that they're excited about Moose Killer but behind close doors they're really deflated.

[dogstar7]

Bahahahahaha! Tell us what you really think while the cameras are live next time!

[Artivous13]

Even the Republicans are super pissed about his pick. Wake up. the party doesn't care about you or your views. They just want your vote so they can make more money.

[Elcristoph]

did this go out live?